DISCUSSION: Are bears necessary for Mt.fang?

[Hankomachos]

This is entirely my opinion and I'm not trying to flame or anything.

In MT.fang it seems the mobs (levels 2-5 mainly) are easy to kill; especially by a mage or archer. In nuri; however, the mobs were a lot harder, and a bear was almost a must have for any run. In MT.fang before I even get up close to the enemys they're usually already dead. That makes me feel inessential to any team I'm playing with.

Bosses are a different story however. It seems like unless there's a good tank, the whole team usually dies. But tanks AKA warriors aren't just for tanking bosses; they're also for CC (crowd control). In MT.fang there isn't much to control, mobs are very weak compared to MT.fang's predecessors', mobs don't dish out enormous damage (remember gravestones, Tko's, etc. from nuri?) That's what bears where for: keeping one-hit-kills off of the "squishys".

When the next campaign comes out I'd like to see the awesomeness of CC returned. Not just one hit kill everything and leave poor lil' tank in the back. :p

Feel free to discuss your opinion in the comment section belooooooooww. (imagine slow motion voice) :p

[Lorddeathz]

I resent tht :( lol jk but yea i.feel.so left out now but i changed to a,bow bear so lol :p im doin my part aswell

[NECROREAPER]

Well the hardest part for bear CC in Fang is the ridiculous dodge of the mobs. It's almost a less than half chance youd pull the enemy in the first place, even with a 100% hit.

[Battlelock]

I'm dual specced but usually use my 61 Orlok set in Mt. Fang. Switching to Sanguine Bow set for Emma. Not to mention the 50% dodge on the mobs.
I notice the lack of CC needed in Mt. Fang as well. Not that it matters much cause most the bears I ran with in Nuris usually wouldn't lead in or if they did they scattered.

[Zaltiar]

Hm, I'd certainly say so. Good bears make it that much easier when doing runs, they're the only ones who can clump up the mobs to set them for an easy kills. Also, during bosses, the bears survivability helps out a lot. If i, as a bird pulled the boss myself, I would probably be dead in a matter of minutes, without kiting or using up all my pots.
On the same issue, are birds necessary? It seems as well, that the mt.fang mobs take lesser hits to kill. A team of images and bears would probably have no problem getting through the runs.
Or how about mages, are they necessary?, with my glyph armor equipped and its awesomesauce regen ability, I have never used more than the 25 HP and man a potions during runs. (Well actually..that's all based on elixir runs, if i took that factor out, i'd be squishy as ever.) I think this trend of elixir running is to blame for the lack of team play during runs. I'm not complaining, I'm one of them pot heads.
Bottom line, each class has their own part during runs, each of them make the runs more efficient. I always love a good bear that knows how and where to pull mobs during runs :)

[LINKERY(Link)]

Lol the below thing is from rwj :p

[Conradin]

Depends- if you use plat 4x elixires then no- you dont. But run MT famg without elixures and it definately helps having a good tank.

[WhoIsThis]

With elixir, no ... without elixir, very much so. Truth be told, good bears can speed up things even with the 4x.

[Ellyidol]

They're necessary, but this is the least necessary they have been ever, IMO.

Mobs dodging Beckon makes the core of our CC futile, boss mechanics favor ranged/running away, so less utility for us in both the mobs and bosses overall. Still nice to have one, just not as good as in BS and Nuri's.

[Whirlzap]

Even my mage sometimes fails its complete combos when I use firestorm.
Firestorm is probably the lowest hit chance of all mage's attacks, so yah.
Buuuuuttt anyways(slow motion voice), bears are the hardest class to play.
Mages are just buff and heal/revive and then some spam skills.
Birds are basically wanted if they just sit and shoot with AUTO.
Bears are usually shooed away in turn for another bird unless they're using a longsword or are using DEX and pot 4x COMBO.

[Uepauke]

They're necessary, but this is the least necessary they have been ever, IMO.

Mobs dodging Beckon makes the core of our CC futile, boss mechanics favor ranged/running away, so less utility for us in both the mobs and bosses overall. Still nice to have one, just not as good as in BS and Nuri's.

Mind you, I have been noticing that I die less at certain bosses with a good tank... the operative word being good.

I vote for more CC for the next dungeon too!

[jiroununu]

I miss the haunted symphony, the best map ever if I vote. In mt fang u simply don't need bear,especially mele bear. Round up death train is simply more efficient for clearing map compared to beckon. And for boss, most of them u can't tank them(I'm talking about non-elixir )
I'm really really sad now, goodbye my bear

[Skeletonlord]

I think it just depends on your team

[Haowesie]

Well the hardest part for bear CC in Fang is the ridiculous dodge of the mobs. It's almost a less than half chance youd pull the enemy in the first place, even with a 100% hit.

Indeed! Specially those mages, very hard to pull...

I recently started enjoying my new dex bear that I got to lvl 65:) I've joined a lot of PUGs and try to stay ahead of the pack, do my pull-combo at the corner or against the wall then move on -- so I guess it's not so much as mob control but as Zaltair mentioned, makes it an easy kill for the pack and faster to clear the map.

I did a run with two other bears, that was fun... I still feel like a noob, but even so... I'm still enjoying it!

Find me in game and teach a bird how to be a bear :) ign: drearasy

[KingFu]

Necessary? Yes. Required? No.

As Elly said, bears are as useless as ever IMO. The enemies low difficulty level and high dodge really makes tanking lose purpose and CC difficult. I only feel useful when A) Beckon is successful and pulls the mobs, which isn't too often or B) At a few bosses. Some bosses, like Aunt Emma, are almost useless to have a tank with IMO. Since her feet stay planted, and the party needs to back into the wall, other classes can use some ranged skills to hit her, bears on the other hand can pretty much only hit beckon for the small added damage and auto.

I figure it's nice and handy for the party to have one that knows what he's doing there helping, but I can't say with confidence that it's a better choice of a party member than, say, another Mage.

[kiitz]

Man, I totally feel this way. The most satisfying thing about playing a bear is getting good beckons and then watching your team (and you) blast them all down in 1 wave of attacks. It just feels clean and organized. Having stragglers all over the place just leaves me with an uneasy feeling.

That being said, when I am on my bird or mage, I still like having a bear around just so its possible to have mega combos, but I have noticed things are faster/easier when it was a full group with just birds & mages.

[Ruby!!!]

I haven't dusted off my bear yet as it is my #5. So these are only my experiences running with bears most times with 4x combo groups.

With a good bear
- runs are only slightly slower
- I use slightly less health pots
- there is no effect on my death count
- it feels a tad more relaxed

With a bad bear
- runs are painfully slow
- I have to use more pots because of stupid round up ideas
- I die more frequently because of the same ideas
- I am really annoyed

But tbh it already was like this before. In Fang it just seems a bigger problem because easy to kill mobs with high dodge seem to be bear kryptonite. The main benefits of having a bear in my group are mega combo possibilities and during some boss and mini fights.

[Cahaun]

I think a lowering of difficulty was needed. The difficulty was getting too big in Nuri's. This difficulty raise started at BS and that is what is annoying me. If the mobs are being described easy in Mt. Fang I say good because they brought back some regular terms. Were bears needed in the low levels where one could solo it?

[RedRyder]

I think a lowering of difficulty was needed. The difficulty was getting too big in Nuri's. This difficulty raise started at BS and that is what is annoying me. If the mobs are being described easy in Mt. Fang I say good because they brought back some regular terms. Were bears needed in the low levels where one could solo it?

You dont know difficult unless you were there when the swamps were new lol. The difficulty is fine for an end level campaign, and should get progressively difficult with each coming one.

[Pakax]

Well the hardest part for bear CC in Fang is the ridiculous dodge of the mobs. It's almost a less than half chance youd pull the enemy in the first place, even with a 100% hit.

soooo true and annoying....

[vaffunculo]

Depends- if you use plat 4x elixires then no- you dont. But run MT famg without elixures and it definately helps having a good tank.

Absolute fact...with elixr a dex bird can tank but in non elixr run you most definitely need a bear, a strength bear..dex bears make horrible tanks IMO.

[AbsolutePally]

Find a bear ig name "Debowe" you will see how quickly and effectively he controls the crowd. Extremly fast bear that makes Mt Fang super quick to get through.
By far the best bear I have seen in pve, knows his role and does it perfectly.
Mobs do however have a high dodge and even a great bear (mot many ig tbh) can miss a few

[Pakax]

Same as Ruby. My bear hasn't gone out to Fang yet. Done the mage and now enjoying the bird and tbh, I am kind of scared of taking the bear out in these conditions :-))
While the mage is at 66 and the bird will get there, I am unsure about the bear. This will have to be a real pain, unless I go fully dext or int bear with no beckon or stomp...

[Gunk]

well ill make one comment. Someone's been watching too much RWJ.

[Ellyidol]

Our opinions shouldn't stop anyone from rolling their bear. After all, we are all the same players with access to the same gear, skills, etc. I just find the role of bears much less significant in this campaign. IMO, bear-play was re-introduced in BS and maximized in Nuri's - both in mobs and bosses. However in Fang, I just feel that instead of the same bear-play being kept as significant, it was reduced.

Kinda ironic too, with the mob's high dodge bears need dex gear to capitalize on Hit to connect their Beckons and tank effectively, but dex gear doesn't tank as well as strength gear.

I've never been one to complain, it just disappoints me that the class I love is losing value.

[Rare]

A good tank is always useful.

As a bear, it is your job to stay ahead of the pack. I know its difficult sometimes, especially with a bunch of juiced up birds and mages just running in and trying to blow everything up.

But just like any other map. If the bear gets in first and pulls mobs to a spot, it will go a lot faster. Here is what I usually do:

1. Stay ahead of the pack and pull mobs together.
2. As a bear, unless you're wearing DEX gear, your damage is pretty low anyway. So, before they are all dead you need to turn tail and start heading for the next mobs. Timing is everything with this, especially if you're still grinding away. Don't want to miss a bunch of XP trying to help the pack.

When I use my mage or bird, having a good bear can be a killer combo. Problem is, I see a lot of bears that hang around with the mobs for way to long. By the time the mobs are dead, the bear is still standing there. At that point they already lost their head start which means it will be difficult to becon at the next mob area without having your party members slow down for you.

[Darkfader]

Yeah I also noticed pretty same thing in this campaign. Bears are not in my opinion MUST, but it makes runs faster a lot when there's bear who can collect bunch of mobs together and then all can nuke em away.

[Rare]

Yeah I also noticed pretty same thing in this campaign. Bears are not in my opinion MUST, but it makes runs faster a lot when there's bear who can collect bunch of mobs together and then all can nuke em away.

I can agree with that. But if we're talking about elixir runs, no class is really a must. They just make things go faster.

A slight exception might be mages. But if everyone is juiced, they aren't really a must either.

[WhoIsThis]

I can agree with that. But if we're talking about elixir runs, no class is really a must. They just make things go faster.

A slight exception might be mages. But if everyone is juiced, they aren't really a must either.

With elixir, damage dealer > tank. The difference is very noticeable. Try running with 5 str builds vs 5 pure dex bird/pure int mage.

[Rare]

With elixir, damage dealer > tank. The difference is very noticeable. Try running with 5 str builds vs 5 pure dex bird/pure int mage.

Yeah I understand that, but the point is, nobody is necessary. It makes things fast to have 5 dex/ints than 5 strs... but it also faster to have 4 dex/ints and 1 str than 5 dex/ints. That's my point.

When you are running with 5 elixir users, none of the classes is a "must".

[Hankomachos]

dex bears make horrible tanks IMO.

Do you mean full dex or dual str/dex? If you mean the latter then I'd have to disagree because bears need dex for hit%. IMO, every bear needs some str and some dex but but pure of both isn't necessary. Pure dex bears, however are indeed "horrible tanks" IMO. :)

[Slough]

If there's a good bear in the party, as a dex/str bird I'll hold back and follow them and hope the party takes my queue. Pulling them to the corners and walls for me is a wonderful feeling when I can come up tangle and scream.

2 mages (int/int) 2 birds (dex/dex) and a bear (str) is my ideal party but the bears seem to be MIA in fang and that's a shame.

I've even reverted to not using elixers at all and being used to people leaving because I refuse to stay constantly elixered. Even that way I still hardly die unless someone isn't doing their part.

Truth be told, I miss having the bears with me :( lol

[KingFu]

Do you mean full dex or dual str/dex? If you mean the latter then I'd have to disagree because bears need dex for hit%. IMO, every bear needs some str and some dex but but pure of both isn't necessary. Pure dex bears, however are indeed "horrible tanks" IMO. :)

As long as they can stay alive, I don't mind them. I personally don't recommend them, but hey, as long as they're not becoming a bear skin rug, it works fine.

[Survivorfan]

My bear is crying, thanks
;) jk

[Hankomachos]

As long as they can stay alive, I don't mind them. I personally don't recommend them, but hey, as long as they're not becoming a bear skin rug, it works fine.

LOL! Nice. I've tried almost every build (int/str), (Dex/str) even int/dex! I always revert back to my normal str/dex build but i agree, bears are very versatile, and it all comes down to the beholders skill. :D


I don't recall going pure dex, maybe in my ao3 days but I wouldn't want to risk even more deaths. >.>

[WhoIsThis]

Yeah I understand that, but the point is, nobody is necessary. It makes things fast to have 5 dex/ints than 5 strs... but it also faster to have 4 dex/ints and 1 str than 5 dex/ints. That's my point.

When you are running with 5 elixir users, none of the classes is a "must".


It depends heavily on the quality of the bear. In most cases though, no.

The fastest runs I have seen though are the ones with 4 dex birds and 1 pure int mage. All damage dealers. Birds must be willing to play the "Physiologic style". 3 dex birds and 2 int mage works about as well. Any other configurations lead to slow downs. 2 pure int may be ideal because deaths happen even on 4x. Sadly, no, the fastest runs are not with bears on elixir.

With birds spamming thorn wall, you can lots of nature strikes. The net benefit from beckon/smash is not nearly enough to justify losing a bird, particularly when it's time to face a boss. 3-4 birds on elixir can quickly lock down a boss. This is true, even with a pure dex bear on rage. Unfortunate, but true. Against mobs, the real bottleneck you are quickly going to find is not how fast you can kill, but how fast you can walk, which is unsatisfactory even on elixir.

[Uepauke]

I completely agree about non-elixir runs needing a bear. Also, it's not a matter of 'needing' this class or that class, especially on elixirs.

The following applies to elixir xp runs:

(yes, I caved, I want that armour!): when it was all birds and mages, we killed them fast, running as we killed, but there were times we had to hang around in a room because the mob was still scattered (despite a bird or mage trying to round them up) and the skills didn't hit all of them.

When a great bear joined us (and he doesn't want me to name him), it pulled ahead and constantly moved forward, with us killing the last mob, it was already up ahead with the next mob. Or it would pull them into the forward corner and the mob was dead in literally one second as we mega'd them. Some bears pull to the side, some hang around to finish off the killing, and so the team ends up doubling backwards or stopping the run.

Comparing all mage and birds with mixed team with that bear, the latter runs were MUCH faster.

The negative part for the bear is, of course, it doesn't end up with as high a kill count or as many drops to liquidate as the rest of us.

[jiroununu]

Bear are design for big map, where mobs are seperate but close to wall or corner. Haunted symphony is the perfect map to show what a bear is capable of. And trust me, once u hang around with a good bear, u wouldn't like to do any runs without them. It's all about the art of beckon! The game is much more enjoyable with a perfect beckon.
But what happens now? The new map ruines us! What the heck is this balefort map? It's too narrow, it ruined beckon. For a perfect beckon to work, the ideal distance between u and mob packs are 8-10m, but there's only 3m wide in those maps. I have to say i'm so disappointed with these new maps. Lazy, uncreative, same mobs every map, they don't even bother to make a name for the map, just use first,second,third floor, lmao!

I know some ppl don't care, because they only care about new gear and pvp. But for some ppl like me mainly pve, we are more interested in maps, mob skill combo, boss tactics, instead of just simply make mobs tons of hp, hits harder.
Seriously, i've never been bored with any maps in PL so far, but this time, after two weeks release of mt fang, im really bored.