Mt. Fang Overall Thoughts & a few tips

[kiitz]

I finally hit 66 on all my characters about a week ago. I am able to understand the best way to play each class and tackle the set of maps after putting in so many hours (10-15 hours/character). Below, please find my general thoughts on Mt. Fang and some tips that I find useful. I am going to be speaking from the point of view of a 4x thrasher player. My experience will vary greatly from those who do not use pots.

The strongest classes in this campaign in order:

1. Bird (the more dex, the better)
2. Mage (partial dex better, full int ok)
3. Bear

A key difference in this campaign is the high level of dodge that the mobs have. Even with 100% hit, mobs dodge attacks left and right. This goes for my dex/hybrid bear as well as my mage. My bird with 130%+ hit didn't have this problem at all.

Best method for killing mobs:

In most campaigns, the best method for killing mobs is for a bear to go in first, beckon everything to a corner and then have mages/birds come in and blast them down.

In this campaign, however, since the mobs have such high dodge and the mobs are not spread out, the beckon grouping method becomes inferior to having another damage dealer in the group.

The ideal group/killing method for a potted run (at least 3 people with 4x pots) is 3 birds and 2 mages with the main goal to always kill the mages first and using nature strike combo as frequently as possible. When running into a room, damage dealers should not waste any abilities on the skull heads (or whatever they are). Basically run straight up to the mage and cast all your abilities while making sure AOE combos hit them. Do not cast any single target abilities while running in, but instead save them for the mobs that are left over after the AOE combos all hit.

Always target the mages first. The skull heads have extremely low HP and will die with AOE hits. The knights have a lot of HP as well, but do not have high dodge, cannot heal and can easily be kited.

Using this method, I am easily able to solo rooms while on 4x pot on my bird. For example in the 1st floor (Emma) there are 2 sets of rooms that are across from each other. If I am on a 4x pot, I will always run into those rooms by myself and can easily clear them by myself by just focusing on the mages in the room. Lets first talk about the room with the pillar in the middle. It has 1 mage, 1 knight and about 5 or so skeleton heads.

As a bird:
1. Run into the room and buff (if you have them up)
2. Pretend the skeleton heads don't even exist - they might as well not.
3. Click the mage so you have specifically her targetted
4. Hit break armor & blinding shot as you run up & also auto attack
5. When you get close enough -> Root wall, shattering scream, blast shot (you can throw avian scream in there if you want, but most likely not necessary)
6. At this point the mage will be dead and the knight will be rooted in place and all the skeleton heads will also be dead just from extra AOE.
7. Auto attack the knight and hit blast/blinding/root when they become available while running out

You can do the same thing in the more difficult room with 4 or so knights and 2 mages. However, you will have to hit pots between killing the first mage and the second. Literally, the ONLY that presents a danger to a bird are the mages. The knights can always be kited.


The same strategy for killing mobs can be used when playing your mage. The problem I faced was that the mob mages would often dodge my attacks even with 100% hit. Again, as long as the mage goes down, you will be safe because you can always kite the knights.

As a bear, I never tried soloing anything. All I can say, is don't pull too many mages at once because if you have 3-4 mages chain casting on you, even spam health pots will sometimes not be enough.

[Gaddy]

This is exactly how I play my archer. Targeting the mages first makes every ones job easier. and combos are key. I wish everyone would try to guyt the mega-combos more often, but so few players try to work as teammates these days...

[Lowlyspy]

This is exactly how I play my archer. Targeting the mages first makes every ones job easier. and combos are key. I wish everyone would try to guyt the mega-combos more often, but so few players try to work as teammates these days...everyone's hopped up on elixers all the time so they feel invincible then when they run into a group of mobs alone they die and are like "Y u no heal me?"

I suggest we open the first Alterran Rehab Facility :P

[kiitz]

I finally realized how important it is to first target the mages when full 4x potted runs went SO MUCH faster and smoother with certain individuals. I've been in MANY full thrasher groups and there are some where you don't have to ever stop running, and there are some where there always seems to be a few stragglers left behind and everyone needs to double back to auto. Playing optimally with or without elixirs will always speed up the run. Its awesome when you can run with a group and literally never take your finger off the "forward" button.

Actually as a bird, one of the BEST things you can do to help your group besides focus firing the mages, is to run in and FIRST hit rootwall. Some mages have a tendency to burn lightning very early in their rotation becomes it comes up very quickly and can be used 2x. As a bird, if you focus on getting to the mobs and dropping rootwall before the mages use lightning, you will find everything dies so much more easily.

Mages on the other hand, if you see you are running with a bird that actively uses rootwall early in their rotation, can and should hold on to their lightning until after they here the tell tale root sound, or see the roots being cast. The thing to realize about rootwall also is that its cooldown is pretty long. Birds will not be able to cast them on every group. Generally a bird can only cast them on every other group. Therefore, as a mage, if you are really trying to go for optimal play, you should only save lightning for rootwall every other group of mobs.

Also, when playing my bird, I will alternate between using rootwall and avian scream on mob groups. Although avian scream does sort of suck due to its extremely small radius, it still adds a fair amount of damage when it lands. By running up to a mage and adding avian scream to your shattering scream/blast shot combo with breakarmor up, it will usually push you over the top on the amount of damage and help you to kill the mob mages in 1 set of barrages.

Nature strike is one of the hardest hitting (if not the hardest hitting) regular combos. Actually, I've done extensive testing with mega combos and I am start to believe that the extra damage from converting nature strike into hellstorm is negligible. For example, if nature strike doubles the combined damage of rootwall and lightning, converting that into hellstorm seems like it either barely adds anymore damage, or only a very small fraction, like maybe 5-10% more. I believe what the mega combos actually do is put a larger debuff on the mobs, lets say double. For regular mobs, this is not important because they will die shortly after you combo/mega combo them. For bosses, this can be a huge benefit (Pwned combo). You will notice that when your group pulls off a Pwned combo, the actual combo does not do much more damage. However, in the following 5 or so seconds, the bosses health seems to drop much more rapidly.

Elixir or no elixir, if you let one or two of the mages in Mt. Fang free cast on you, you will be asking for a rev in no-time. Kill the mage, and you can solo everything in there easily just by kiting in a circle.

Also, btw Gimboid, I'm sure I've run with you in Mt. Fang because I recognize your name. Maybe I learned it from you!

[zeusabe]

awesome observations, personalized as if I'm talking to a friend I share notes with XD Thanks.

[Skeletonlord]

This a really useful guide for people. This should be made a sticky. Well done and these are amazing observations.

[Fyrce]

There are a few things anyone can do to make a run faster, so you can do something like 20 bosses on 1 elixir:

Gather. And no, you don't need a bear. Just go in, trigger all or most of the mobs (helps to know what the count for the level should be and which/how many mobs can be skipped), and drag them towards the door. The hardest rooms (well comparatively) are the few super huge rooms. You can't always drag into the middle of the hall, but at least in the doorway. Your group can minimize its walk, maximize its pull and combos.

And of course, unless you're a slowish group or specifically want to kill vamps, do not trigger the vamps. I, and my regular runners, will leave those who trigger vamps. You trigger them, you deal with them.

And of course, don't forget to dance with emma -- really speeds things up.

[Gaddy]

I finally realized how important it is to first target the mages when full 4x potted runs went SO MUCH faster and smoother with certain individuals. I've been in MANY full thrasher groups and there are some where you don't have to ever stop running, and there are some where there always seems to be a few stragglers left behind and everyone needs to double back to auto. Playing optimally with or without elixirs will always speed up the run. Its awesome when you can run with a group and literally never take your finger off the "forward" button.

Actually as a bird, one of the BEST things you can do to help your group besides focus firing the mages, is to run in and FIRST hit rootwall. Some mages have a tendency to burn lightning very early in their rotation becomes it comes up very quickly and can be used 2x. As a bird, if you focus on getting to the mobs and dropping rootwall before the mages use lightning, you will find everything dies so much more easily.

Mages on the other hand, if you see you are running with a bird that actively uses rootwall early in their rotation, can and should hold on to their lightning until after they here the tell tale root sound, or see the roots being cast. The thing to realize about rootwall also is that its cooldown is pretty long. Birds will not be able to cast them on every group. Generally a bird can only cast them on every other group. Therefore, as a mage, if you are really trying to go for optimal play, you should only save lightning for rootwall every other group of mobs.

Also, when playing my bird, I will alternate between using rootwall and avian scream on mob groups. Although avian scream does sort of suck due to its extremely small radius, it still adds a fair amount of damage when it lands. By running up to a mage and adding avian scream to your shattering scream/blast shot combo with breakarmor up, it will usually push you over the top on the amount of damage and help you to kill the mob mages in 1 set of barrages.

Nature strike is one of the hardest hitting (if not the hardest hitting) regular combos. Actually, I've done extensive testing with mega combos and I am start to believe that the extra damage from converting nature strike into hellstorm is negligible. For example, if nature strike doubles the combined damage of rootwall and lightning, converting that into hellstorm seems like it either barely adds anymore damage, or only a very small fraction, like maybe 5-10% more. I believe what the mega combos actually do is put a larger debuff on the mobs, lets say double. For regular mobs, this is not important because they will die shortly after you combo/mega combo them. For bosses, this can be a huge benefit (Pwned combo). You will notice that when your group pulls off a Pwned combo, the actual combo does not do much more damage. However, in the following 5 or so seconds, the bosses health seems to drop much more rapidly.

Elixir or no elixir, if you let one or two of the mages in Mt. Fang free cast on you, you will be asking for a rev in no-time. Kill the mage, and you can solo everything in there easily just by kiting in a circle.

Also, btw Gimboid, I'm sure I've run with you in Mt. Fang because I recognize your name. Maybe I learned it from you!If so, then the student has far exceeded the skill of the master, because you put this far more eloquently and with better detail than I ever could. I'd be proud to run with the likes of you any time!

[JaytB]

Nice guide :)

I agree with most of what is said. You mentioned in your second post to use thorn wall before mages cast lightning, which is a fairly important thing to do as a bird IMO. Nature strike is indeed a powerful and easy to perform combo.

Since you didn't mention a skill order for mages, I thought it could be useful to add that here too, because, as a mage, it's also important to use your skills in a specific order IMO. Personally, I use this combo in PvE:
1. Optionally: weakness (especially when not potted, it can help to keep you and your team alive. When using a wand, it has a high chance to proc nightmare -or drain.. Forgot exact name- to enemies who are hit with weakness first).
2. Optionally: heal, helps to get agro from mobs. It can be useful just to cast heal in order to group the enemies closer together before using the skills mentioned in following steps.

Main combo:

3. Nightmare: reduces armor and dodge. The disadvantage of nightmare (next to the fairly long cooldown), is that its range is limited (6m), that's why it can be usefull to get the enemies closer together before casting it. That's also the reason I mentioned to possibly use heal first in the previous step (to get the mobs closer together).
4. Lightning: Deals dmg and reduces armor a bit more, allowing you and your team to deal the maximum amount of dmg possible (since actual dmg= dmg-enemy armor).
5. Ice-storm: to set-up ice/fire combo. Since nightmare was used first, there's more chance to actually freeze the mobs instead of them dodging it.
6. Fire-storm: to get ice/fire combo, to deal the maximum amount of dmg.

That's the basic combo I use most. It all depends on your team and playstyle, but this order of skills allows you and your team to deal the most possible dmg.

Frost-bite and especially drain-life can be useful for that 1 enemy that survived your team's attacks. Drain hits very hard, but has a small delay before becoming effective. I usually use drain->frostbite on that one single enemy. Both have 12m range, so you can use these spells while moving away from the target (instead of possibly having to run back to your target and therefore getting behind in the group).

Also, revive gives a hidden buff for your entire group: +1 armor, +1 dmg and +1 m/s for 1 minute. Although I don't think it stacks when other mages cast it, every bit of dmg counts IMO

As for buffs, personally, I'd only use Blessing of Might and Blessing of Vitality (BOV). I try to use either BOV or Magic Shield to stay alive, alternating between the two (when BOV is on cooldown, I'd use Magic Shield and vice versa). Magic shield is also definitely useful to cast at these specific spots where you know enemies will hit hard.

The only thing I don't agree on, is that a mage with points in dex would be better as compared to pure int. Points in dex only help increase your auto-attack dmg, and (marginally) your hit% (and a few points in armor, if using a dex-armor ring). At level cap, your hit% is well above 100%, and only specific enemies infrequently debuff it. The biggest drawback of points in dex, is that it will decrease effectiveness of most of your skills (all dmg spells, and heal). Even when only putting 67 points in dex, to use a 10-11dmg ring, your skill dmg is still quite a bit (10-20 if I remember correct) lower as compared to pure int without a dmg ring. When using a dex-armor ring, you get a bit more armor but even deal less dmg (20-30 per skill as compared to pure int without any ring). Finally, points in dex decrease m/s a bit. Although arguably not that important as compared to the loss in skill dmg and heal, personally I like to have as much m/s as possible. These are the reasons for me to go pure int instead of, IMO, wasting points in dex :)

[Ruby!!!]

Thanks for this constructive and helpful thread! :) Adding to it - When I was leveling my bear I found it helpful when a mage casts nightmare before my beckon - to get down enemy dodge.

And thanks JaytB for sharing your skill cycle - mine is nearly the same :) I add a "7. lightning again on the way out" in most rooms to finish the last mobs standing. And to check if the room has been cleared within 3 seconds lightning cooldown.
I use drain life right before debuffs to take out the first purple mage when there are two of them in the room. On 4x you kill those with a drain life, some auto attack and a lightning.

For dex in endgame mage builds I think there are some good reason...
- You want to use dex gear so you need 150 dex min
- You want to max out your armor as a wand mage so you go 150 int, 67 dex, rest str
- You're a pally so you desperately need hit %
- You wear a dex wing as town gear (my reason)

[dudetus]

Very well written and thought guide!

All things I could came up to r already said so I just lay back and drink my Coca Cola instead of writing a long reply.

[kiitz]

Thanks for the feedback and added input guys!

Jay, I actually agree with you on what you are saying about int vs. int/dex mages. I generally either play a full int mage or int/dex with just enough to equip dex gear. The core role of the mage in a group is best served by a full int mage. Besides healing and debuff/buffing, we're talking about AOE damage to clear packs of mobs before reaching the boss. That type of damage depends solely on the amount of skill damage you can do. The only reason to have a hybrid build for me in other campaigns was so I could carry both a set of int gear as well as a set of dex gear and swap at the boss for maximum "contribution" at both stages.

I would normally not make a call on whether full int or dex/int is overall better. However, the reason why I said int/dex hybrid mage was better in my first post was that it was Mt. Fang specific. I specced full int in full crafted L65 gear with staff and even focus firing the mages, I found I had a relatively poor solo killing rate on them in 1 set of cooldowns (at least compared to my bird). Due to their seemingly astronimcal dodge rate (maybe i'm exaggerating this), they would frequently dodge either the ice-storm or fire-storm portion of my attack combo, essentially nullifying the largest portion of my attack. I used the standard, nightmare before ice/lightning/fire attack to decrease their dodge as well.

I found this quite frustrating, so even though I don't prefer to run in dex gear while killing mobs, I respecced to the minimum amount of dex necessary and swapped my gear from my bird to my mage. I think the "effective cap" for hit for this campaign is significantly higher than 100% so all that additional dex and what I used to think was "useless" extra hit on the bird gear finally helped.


Anyway, running with people who know what they are doing and actually put in the effort to think about and understand the best way to play is the most rewarding. I've always looked at it from the perspective that the more damage the team can do the better, regardless of how much of it comes from me. Therefore, mages should be prioritizing nightmare on mob groups and birds should always prioritize break armor on bosses (and then blinding shot to help out your tanks/bears).

One more thing about mages and the best way to play with a bear (on campaigns that are appropriate for the beckon/stomp blast strategy. I learned this while back running with Hunzzz in Nuri's. When the bear is running in, do not wait for him to beckon and then run in to cast. Instead, run with him while casting weakness, nightmare and heal and then as he beckons go into your combo. Caster mobs have a tendency to make your character studder when moving. By running in and doing this, not only do you help to debuff the enemies and heal your bear as he is going through the enemies and getting hit, you can also take the hit from 1-2 of the mobs you are running through to even out the damage (which will all be healed).

Apparently, I have a penchant for writing long posts...!

[Duped]

Kiitz, have you ever noticed that break armor makes no difference on bosses? I remember reading somewhere that bosses cant be debuffed (with the supposed exception of Crushing Blow, and I think that's correct), and I've watched my damages on them, they never increase, even in long solo battles on bosses, in short, I've found break armor (other than to pull a mega combo) doesn't do any more than a regular shot does. One way I like to test gear is to solo bank vault, pull those mini's in one at a time and then I can see if my gear or spells are making the difference I hope they are. Break armor is hailed as the most awesome skill since it stacks, but I haven't found that to be the case at all.