Regarding: Absence of Guardians of Alterra

[WoundedEagle]

First off, I think we need some more Guardians; so lets get to that.

Based on just my view and correct me if I am wrong, we have a lot of Guardians either gone, or inactive.

The bolded Guardians of Alterra below are Gone or Inactive based on my view:


Inducted 2/11/11: Yanis, Kalielle, Orei, Physiologic, Royce, Arterra, Snakespeare, FluffNStuff, KingRichie

Inducted 2/25/11: RedRyder, DanielRH

Inducted 3/25/11: ChadM, Wrap

Inducted 4/8/11: Mysticaldream

Inducted 4/25/11: Ellyidol, Apollo

Inducted 5/6/11: Redbridge, Ayrilana

Inducted 6/16/11: CowboyJim, DawnInfinity, Petrichor

Inducted 7/31/11: WoundedEagle, Otukura

Inducted 9/20/11: JaytB, CrimsonTider, StompArtist, Conradin

Inducted 10/7/11: NavyGreen, Darkfader


Lets take a closer look at Guardian of Alterra activeness based individually:

-Apollo: On everyday, super active on forums and in-game.

-Arterra: Out of control with bad wireless connection; activity is early morning, around 6 eastern for chatbox and few posts. Not active in-game.

-Ayrilana: In-active on forums and in-game.

-ChadM: Last activity on forums was 09-22-2011 08:15 PM. Not active on forums nor in-game.

-Conradin: Active in-game and on forums. On everyday.

-CowboyJim: Not so active on forums. Posts every few days 3-6 day increments. Not known to be currently super active in-game.

-CrimsonTider: Active everyday on forums. Also active in-game a lot.

-DanielRH: Currently posted that they are taking a break. Active on forums and briefly in-game.

-DarkFader: I believe he is active in-game and on forums partially.

-DawnInfinity: Not active on forums nor in-game. Peaks on forums every now and again.

-Ellyidol: Active on forums everyday. Not so active in-game to my knowledge.

-FluffNStuff: Active on forums. Not active in-game.

-JaytB: Posts about once a day. Not so active in-game.

-Kalielle: Not active on forums; posts every few days. Not active in-game to my knowledge.

-KingRichie: Recently made a thread saying hello. Came on that day and hasn't been on since. Not active in-game nor forums.

-Mysticaldream: I think he's active in-game. Not way too active on forums, but still here; posts everyday.

-NavyGreen: Hit Guardian and hasn't been seen since shortly after that. Not active on forums nor in-game.

-Orei: Last activity on forums was 04-13-2011 06:11 PM. Was seen in-game farming kills. Not active. (Still Guardian?)

-Otukura: Active in-game everyday and active on forums everyday.

-Petrichor: Active in-game and partially on forums (Doesn't post much).

-Physiologic: Not active in game. Got StarGuard and hasn't been active on forums since 10-23-2011 07:37 AM. Not active.

-Redbridge: Not super active in-game, pops in every now and again. Posts everyday. Active on forums.

-RedRyder: Active on forums everyday. Partially active in-game.

-Royce: Sadly gone from forums and game. No activity on forums since 03-24-2011 05:17 PM. Not active at all.

-StompArtist: Plans to quit soon due to the way STS is rolling. Has been active on forums, I am unaware about in-game, but would say not active.

-WoundedEagle(Me): Ehh. Active on forums everyday and active on my Twink appropriately named, Twink, everyday for short periods of time.

-Wrap: Not active on forums since 11-19-2011 07:52 PM (Woh, Wrap was on in November?). Not active at all.

-Yanis: Posts every few days. Not active in-game to my knowledge. Never made Mt. Fang Pink Guide (Drewcapu did).

So are most active people and the best models of a Guardian at this moment, based on activity in-game and on forums are:

-Apollo
-Conradin
-CrimsonTider
-DanielRH
-DarkFader
-Otukura
-RedRyder
-Not going to say me because that would be cocky.

People active during December at all:

-Apollo
-Arterra
-Conradin
-CowboyJim
-DanielRH
-DarkFader
-DawnInfinity
-Ellyidol
-FluffNStuff
-JaytB
-Kalielle
-KingRichie
-MysticalDream
-Otukura
-Petrichor
-RedBridge
-RedRyder
-StompArtist
-WoundedEagle
-Yanis

Suggestions, in no particular order:

-Siejo
-NecroReaper
-Gluttony
-Noobmigo
-WhoIsThis
.... I started searching around then realized none others came to mind...

This thread may be useless or look bad. But I don't think people nor STS realize how much the ideal program of Guardians of Alterra, the highest rank in the community one player can get to, has gone down the drain.

For those who want to be one, it isn't about the rewards (Just a shield and forum title), it's about changing the community for the better in a different way. To be honest, I believe I was made one for how much I reported. I was an in-game police. I changed my attitude when I got it, and when the shut down the old report system that I loved. Now that I am one, I am less active, less social in-game, I have less fun in-game, I get more questions that people should ask themselves first, and I lost what I did all of that for. I didn't want to be a Guardian, just wanted to help the way no one else was.

So, my point is, we need to strengthen this program fast before it dies. The reason why so many Guardians quit, is because we know STS and we know Pocket Legends inside and out (not to be cocky or pretentious). I think the reason is that we just know where it is and where it is headed when we see the potential and possibilities of the game and STS.

Happy Holidays,

-we.....

P.S. I am not to acquainted with every Guardian, so please feel free to correct me. Also, post some suggestions... We haven't gotten new Guardians since October.

[WhoIsThis]

I'm not sure adding more guardians would improve the standing of this program at this point.

It's a program that has lost its luster, so to speak. Letting this program die out seems like the best option IMO and scrapping the entire thing.

[MightyMicah]

I agree with many guardians going innactive I think we need some new guardians.

[WoundedEagle]

I'm not sure adding more guardians would improve the standing of this program at this point.

It's a program that has lost its luster, so to speak.
I understand where you're coming from. You should probably be on the list too. You're active everywhere. I just think it needs cleaning so to speak.

[CrimsonTider]

I am on every day in-game buddy. I have 12 toons so I am constantly bouncing around trying to avoid the boredom.

To explain my thoughts on GoA, many of the ones who are gone or inactive are that way for a few reasons but one which is common is this: boredom. I will not go into what this entails but I can assure you it is a common understanding that this is NOT the PL we all grew to love. Also, I don't know about you, but the complaints/concerns I get on a daily basis make logging in to "play" difficult. (Thus my high number of twinks... my escape.)

I like your suggestions but I will tell you that a lot of people whom I feel are best suited for GoA are already heading in the direction of the bolded names.

[WhoIsThis]

I understand where you're coming from. You should probably be on the list too. You're active everywhere. I just think it needs cleaning so to speak.

I am not trying to become a GoA. The program, as I have said, is no longer something worth striving for in my mind.

Edit:
To me, it's one of those things where, if it happens, good. If it doesn't ... not a big deal.

[WoundedEagle]

I am on every day in-game buddy. I have 12 toons so I am constantly bouncing around trying to avoid the boredom.

To explain my thoughts on GoA, many of the ones who are gone or inactive are that way for a few reasons but one which is common is this: boredom. I will not go into what this entails but I can assure you it is a common understanding that this is NOT the PL we all grew to love. Also, I don't know about you, but the complaints/concerns I get on a daily basis make logging in to "play" difficult. (Thus my high number of twinks... my escape.)

I like your suggestions but I will tell you that a lot of people whom I feel are best suited for GoA are already heading in the direction of the bolded names.

I also escape on Twinks. I baby them. I have over 30 Twinks/alternates I bounce around on also.


I am not trying to become a GoA. The program, as I have said, is no longer something worth striving for in my mind.
Oh, I hope I didn't come off that way. I meant the fact that your help and activeness is not even at the slightest to get the Guardian position; You're genuine.

[WhoIsThis]

No offense taken. I know that you have the best of intentions at heart.

To me, intentions are always more important than anything else, and I can see that you have good intentions.

[Pandar]

Is there any particular reason why you think the GoA program has lost it's luster? I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on that.

Also, beyond just adding more to the group, what would you like to see from the program?

[LwMark]

I tthink u missed my name :)
But i agree we need more GOAs i like walkin around an seein those sheilds flashin around!
But yes GOA is just a name i wanna see sommething else out of the program but im not sure exactly what though :/
I would never take it off haha!
Good luck to whoever is next!
We kno yul all deserve it!

[Draco Mikato]

Steph moved on to O&C, to my knowledge. Aka DawnInfinity.

[WhoIsThis]

Is there any particular reason why you think the GoA program has lost it's luster? I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on that.

Also, beyond just adding more to the group, what would you like to see from the program?

The quality of GoAs has declined with each successive generation. The first 2-3 generations consisted of players like Royce, Physiologic, who were very active. Some of them left. Others, such as Apollo and Ellyidol stayed. These were non-controversial people that most people agreed demonstrated outstanding achievement on the forums. Each successive generation though, saw people who were not of the same calibre. In one case, we had a player by the name of Navygreen who joined, did very little, and managed to earn the GoA within one month, only to never be heard from again. There are other cases, but you get the idea.

Either way, the end result has been that the GoA selection system is no longer a meritocracy. It appears to be something that is quite randomly awarded. I ams sure that it is not, but because the bar was set lower and lower, it seemed like it. Furthermore, there were people who were in the eyes of the community more worthy than say, Navygreen who did not get it, such as Siejo.

At this point, Physiologic's recommendation of scrapping the entire program and making the GoAs regular senior members is in my opinion anyways, the best option. People who are truly passionate like Ellyidol or Apollo or Wounded above are not going to go away and stop being helpful.

[WoundedEagle]

Is there any particular reason why you think the GoA program has lost it's luster? I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on that.

Also, beyond just adding more to the group, what would you like to see from the program?
To be honest, it is so inactive. Before I was Guardian, I thought it wasn't just a reward. I thought it was a way to get through to the devs. A way to be heard better. Which it was, but in an off-set manner so to speak. I would rather them strip the shield and be able to get through to them better. I just get flustered at how much potential we have, and how STS seems to push away the innovators who have molded the game to where it is now. I would have to agree that this is not the game I grew up loving. It was different. It seems as if STS wants to make a profit off of... well.... anything. For instance the Reindeer Antlers in DotD. There the same exact coding and the same exact thing as 2011 Reindeer Antlers, just a different name. Of course you could walk to Towne Crier and get some for free. Those who buy them seem to be suckered in. It's not like I can tell the difference between purchased ones and free ones....



Steph moved on to O&C, to my knowledge. Aka DawnInfinity.
Yep.

[WhoIsThis]

Two very different answers.

This program had so much potential when I heard about it in the winter of 2011. Today ... it's almost irrelevant.

[MightyMicah]

Actually I disagree. The problem is not that the quality of the GoA's has been declining. The problem is human Nature. Everyone wants to be better than the next guy and from a selfish point of view, the GoAs are "better" than the average guy. Certainly they are leaders and should be upheld but not considered "better" if you catch my meaning...

Because of this, we get people like, (i believe his name was) MasterChief who come in to the forums, find out about GoAs and then pretend to be someone they're not. MasterChief gave away all his money and items in hopes of achieving GoA. When he wasn't awarded with it he raged and quit. Rumor has it he now begs in game for a living...

My point is, people should not try and achieve GoA. They should be themself and if they deserve GoA they will get it. Human nature simply doesn't allow the system to work.

You mentioned the first GoAs were of the highest quality. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it stand to reason that it is simply because they were not expecting GoA? In other words they were helpful just to be helpful. They had no intention of earning anything. Their motives were pure.

Now the motive is "If I am helpful and good enough I might get GoA." IMO that is a flawed idea.

~MM

[WhoIsThis]

I'd have to disagree with Might on this one. The quality of GOAs has been declining. If we look at the order, do you see the later generation of GOAs making as many guides, and being as active as the first 2-3 generations? Some like Wounded, yes. But many others, no. On average, the quality has declined with time.

Not to mention, empirical evidence contradicts his post. When the program was first introduced, there were many people asking how they could become a GoA. Today, there are few people striving to become one. People are no longer actively trying to become a GoA, or certainly not nearly to the extent that they were in the early month's of this program. Note the lack of threads and posts from people asking how to become a GoA - hence how I pointed out why this program seemed irrelevant.

[Pandar]

Okay so I think we've established that everything thinks it is on the decline. But the question I haven't seen answered is what would you like to see happen in order to revive it?

[Cahaun]

Yanis...NavyGreen...Arterra! Gone! Now Lowly is gone, Skav is gone, Stomp will be gone soon... My only close friends are leaving. :(

[WhoIsThis]

Okay so I think we've established that everything thinks it is on the decline. But the question I haven't seen answered is what would you like to see happen in order to revive it?

Here, Wounded and I will probably give you very different answers.

I believe that this program has declined to the point where it may be past a salvageable point. I think it's best to let it die out and turn the GoAs back into senior members. A few may be hurt, but the ones that are genuine are going to keep on being as active and useful as ever.

[Cahaun]

Okay so I think we've established that everything thinks it is on the decline. But the question I haven't seen answered is what would you like to see happen in order to revive it?
Improve the election process, I don't want to see a single vanity in game that states they are a GoA or else people will start to try and get in for the wrong reason, and give players the feeling that the devs are right beside you as you are now, Pandar.

[MightyMicah]

I think in the future we should be very careful about who is selected for GoA. I also believe perhaps were some responsibility given to the GoAs it would motivate them to continue to help the community.

[NECROREAPER]

I think people have grown too expect too much of the GOA. For example (and yea, most of these are assumptions):

-if you don't post often and a lot everyday you can't be GOA
-if you're not pope-like in game you can't be GOA
-if you don't make a new guide all the time, or any guides at all for that matter, you can't be GOA
-if you disagree with anything, you can't be GOA


These are some very brief and very general assumptions that a lot of the community makes.

As Micah said, "...people should not try and achieve GoA. They should be themself and if they deserve GoA they will get it.". This is exactly how I feel about GOA and AoA for that matter, and is what I tell people when they ask how to become AoA.

[MightyMicah]

I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around your point of view. Just because the quality has declined doesn't mean we should ditch the entire idea. Many would argue PL in general is struggling right now and has declined. From your point of view does that mean we should just ditch pocket legends and let it crumble?

You don't shoot your dog just because he's stopped hunting. (maybe I missed something...?)

~MM

Edit: this was meant for whoisthis, on my itouch I can't tell if it replied to Whoisthis or not :\

[WhoIsThis]

I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around your point of view. Just because the quality has declined doesn't mean we should ditch the entire idea. Many would argue PL in general is struggling right now and has declined. From your point of view does that mean we should just ditch pocket legends and let it crumble?

You don't shoot your dog just because he's stopped hunting. (maybe I missed something...?)

~MM

Edit: this was meant for whoisthis, on my itouch I can't tell if it replied to Whoisthis or not :\

The difference is that PL is completely savable and could be turned into one of the best MMOs around.

The GoA program may be past that point in my opinion. Interest has declined in this program. Becoming a GoA is not longer a priority. Furthermore, as Necro has pointed out, a series of assumptions were made that are not without some justification.

I for example, challenge point 4 that Necro made. I do not agree with the official line. I debate a lot and am quite willing to take a strong stance on something.

Finally, destroying PL will be bad for STS for obvious reasons. Abandoning the GoA program will not have any harmful effects and may actually benefit the community in that it gets rid of the accusations of elitism.

[Engelhard]

Okay so I think we've established that everything thinks it is on the decline. But the question I haven't seen answered is what would you like to see happen in order to revive it?

IMO the GOA program is awesome...it just shows how much interaction there is between the players and the devs to even have a program like this to begin with ......by the way because someone becomes a GOA it doesn't mean they have to play pl everyday for the rest of their life.....we all love pl but we are human and it is a game

[MightyMicah]

You keep saying the GoA is past the point of a return. Why? As far as I can see the GoAs are doing fine and being extremely helpful. I mean sure we could remove the GoA status from the innactives. How is it so difficult?

You also mentioned "the elitest group." once again. This is human nature coming out. People think that these guys are "better" than everyone. They don't like feeling inferior. Its also true that if we ever have any kind of "leaders" theres gonna be jealousy. That's part of life. Should we not have GoAs? Should we not have a supreme court because people will be jealous? Should we not have state representatives? Etc. Etc.

~MM

[WhoIsThis]

You keep saying the GoA is past the point of a return. Why? As far as I can see the GoAs are doing fine and being extremely helpful. I mean sure we could remove the GoA status from the innactives. How is it so difficult?

You also mentioned "the elitest group." once again. This is human nature coming out. People think that these guys are "better" than everyone. They don't like feeling inferior. Its also true that if we ever have any kind of "leaders" theres gonna be jealousy. That's part of life. Should we not have GoAs? Should we not have a supreme court because people will be jealous? Should we not have state representatives? Etc. Etc.

~MM

We need a Supreme Court because we need a final arbitrator for our justice system in society.

But the GoA system is not like that at all. What purpose does it serve at this point? Increasingly, I get the feeling that the answer is nothing.

[MightyMicah]

I'll tell you what purpose it serves. To honor those who rightfully deserve honor. Should we not reward those who have worked hard?

[WhoIsThis]

I'll tell you what purpose it serves. To honor those who rightfully deserve honor. Should we not reward those who have worked hard?

Indeed. But in its current state, it is not doing that. It's best to IMO to scrap this one entirely and if desired to reboot the entire program.

[Engelhard]

It is a cherry on top of the great community we have. The GOA's have been a great contributing positive force
For Alterra. The general
Atmosphere has gotten more friendly then last year when I started and there was no GOA program. As for the the people complaining.... It seems that people spend to much time searching for all the things they do not like about this game and none talking about what they like...sure spend a lot of time playing it for people who don't like it lmao.....anyways let's just all play and have fun.........thank you to the GOA's for doing all y'all do........merry Christmas everyone

[Cascade]

Perhaps it is time for a new program? Would be a bit repetitive though eh?

[WhoIsThis]

Perhaps it is time for a new program? Would be a bit repetitive though eh?

Perhaps. This one has outlived its usefulness.

[Engelhard]

AoA = new program

[Engelhard]

I think the two programs we have now are great.....maybe just throw in more events like the ambassador party involving members giving out goodies to keep them fresh on people's mind and keep the community smiling because everyone seems to want free pixels lol just a thought

[MightyMicah]

What is it that makes you say that?

[KingFu]

AoA = new program

I still don't entirely understand why they program awarded its members. Was it people that helped new players and greeted them to the game? The AoA list is so long, I don't think it's quite capable of replacing the GoA program. They seem to each hold a slightly different meaning. GoA seems more exclusive, at the time being at least. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice program, but not quite capable of taking over a GoA type program.

As for reviving it. I agree with Attack. It's past the capability of revival. It had lots of potential, but it's kinda lost its meaning. Whether a new program should be added or not, I don't really know. GoA is kinda bittersweet. There's the sweet side: People being awarded for representing what the devs like to see, and then some, and encouraging others to be helpful. Then there's the bitter: A majority/large portion of the community disagreeing with the newly elected members, people joining forums and trying to sugar coat every post to get it, jealousy, and more. I think if the devs made it something that someone couldn't change into, it'd hold more meaning. AKA, raise the standards of GoA tremendously. For example, only award those with posts and threads (plural, not singular) that are Yanis, and Phys material, which still would be difficult to do. When the list was announced, most on the list were top-notch, highly respected members, and as said many times before, that changed. It's really an intricate thing, even if they do fix it, one change can easily mess it up again. I think will all the trouble of fixing it together, and still having the possibility of it being ruined, it should either be taken out or die out. I don't see it continuing in the same direction it has been.

Also Wound, I haven't been active this past month nearly at all:) I logged in once to see the new items for 3 minutes this whole week lol. I've pretty much quit, just without the getting rid of my items thing...yet:)

[MightyMicah]

I disagree. I just don't get why people think it's lost it's touch. Is it because of the things necro posted? Because they aren't constantly posting or because people are disagreeing with them? Please someone fill me in on what I'm missing here.

[Curiana]

Pandar, you've asked for ideas on how to better the situation, one thing I'd strongly recommend is that you take a selection of players be it goa or a new council of players and brief them out with what you have planned for the future, obviously part of the deal would be not to announce what is coming or it would ruin the fun ;) these players can then give you thorough feedback on everything coming, this i imagine would of stopped the winter fest situation before it happened as a compromise could of been reached.

Take two half and half of the council high plat users and non or little plat users and see what is said, I imagine there would be a small difference between the two sides on how much to charge but that's where you would step in for the final say, taking into consideration what has been discussed and with an explanation as to why the outcome is X Y and Z

Customer relationships are built and lost by the owners of company's having run my own business and now setting up a new one I know how hard it is to balance overheads with profit, so this isn't a dig at winter fest or anything else just an idea that could and if done properly should improve the game from all aspects.

Personally I like what the goa's have done, i think it's good that you have this programme in play as it does help the new players when they are about, you wouldn't believe the amount of people asking the simplest of questions yet it's upto a few people to answer them or direct them to the answer.

If your after some constructive criticism and ideas on how to help the newer players I have plenty, just drop me a pm, I may not of posted a lot on these forums but I've read them since the app came out on a daily basis.

Thanks for reading folks, sorry if I've bored you half to death, Dave aka Curiana and if you do remember MUDs I was Engra on most of them all those years ago :D

[Redbridge]

Is there any particular reason why you think the GoA program has lost it's luster? I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on that.

Also, beyond just adding more to the group, what would you like to see from the program?

Okay so I think we've established that everything thinks it is on the decline. But the question I haven't seen answered is what would you like to see happen in order to revive it?

Ok, lots to discuss, but firstly thanks to Pandar for publicly asking for some feedback on the GoA Programme.

In order to answer "what would you like to see happen in order to revive it?" a few things need to be highlighted.

Firstly, most, if not all, of the initial recipients of the GoA award were really truely 'elite'. The standards they set simply don't exist anymore. There are a very small handful of people who might be close but things have moved on since then and it simply isn't possible for those exceptionally high standards (or specifically the exceptionally high standards/knowledge above the general community) to be replicated. More of the community has a much higher knowledge level now than back then. We saw some real star ppl when SL was released but I'm not sure we'll ever see that original 'game changing' level of player again.

Secondly, any clear and useful communication from STS about the GoA programme has been very very infrequent, at best. Often the community has discussed in great detail the pro and cons of the GoA programme and rarely is there any clarity from STS about what they are trying to achieve, what they expect and rarely correcting the community if they have the wrong impression. My gut feeling is what started off as a reward programme was seen as potentially something more but was never managed, PR wise, correctly, and was allowed to turn into something it never was.

Finally, I have to agree, unless something is done, soon, the GoA programme would be best left as a great memory. I'd gladly admit I was one of the first 'shock' choices for GoA. The standard was sooo high it was an honour to be considered with those people. I'm not sure though that the standards of the subsequent choices have been bad, they've mainly been great choices but impossible to compare with the originals. I've said it before but it needs highlighting again. The community don't see what STS have access to (chat logs, reports, emails, etc) but many people still feel qualified to 'question' STS choices for GoA, which IMHO is simply not realistic or fair.

So, my thoughts on "what would you like to see happen in order to revive it?"......

1. STS need to be very clear what they want the GoA programme to be. Is it just a thank you? Is it more, maybe a recognition of high and exacting standards in the hope that those standard will brush off on the rest of the community? Is it more than that maybe even a group of players charged with visibly upholding the standards of the community with a defined role to carry out? Whatever it is, STS need to decide and define it clearly.

2. Communication. Much of the problem I think has been the lack of clarity over the STS programme. Both from STS to the community and also from STS to the GoAs themselves. Apart from the original private announcement and a handful of communications/feedback from STS all communication between STS & myself is generally instigated by myself. This has led me to believe that the programme is just a reward/thank-you and not something more active, otherwise they would have told me, right? With the community, there has been plenty of opportunity to 'set the record straight' and clarify 'what is a GoA' when the discussions have ensued, but it rarely happens. So, my opinion is clear and regular communication would resolve many misunderstandings and cement a clear view across the community of what is a GoA..

3. The community needs to be engaged with. They are the life blood of the game. Let's be honest, whilst the people on the forum may think they are the voice of the community, the real community are everyone in game. There needs to be more effort by STS to really engage with a wider spread of players and listen to what they are suggesting. Many have some great ideas and would be a very good sounding board for most things. In the early days of the GoA programme it felt like the community was consulted and often new content was as a direct result of feedback. There does seem (may only be appearances) to be a reduction in real STS interaction. If the community felt heard and listened to, even if not always agreed with, many of the gripes wouldn't be anywhere near as bad.

So, my summary. Be clear what you want from the GoA programme, communicate clearly & correct any misunderstandings and interact more frequently with the community to find out there concerns/ideas/likes.

Hope that helps.

[zeusabe]

If there's an AoA, there should be the DoA (Devils of Alterra). This is my opinion, don't hate. Anyway, It's too early...but I can't wait to say "I knew it...", if nothing drastic happens soon. XD. Too lazy but I posted that idea somewhere here in the forums which was later on supported by the good versus bad thread. Anyway, you can analyze all you want, people don't like "nice" at least marketing wise...do you watch TMZ or your local news? people like bad news all the time...that's what sells people and that's what get their attention, you can learn a thing or two on media about this...definitely, the good guys, alone, will just bore people, they need bad guys so people can appreciate them more...so...good luck amigos! XD

[RedRyder]

I don't make any guides since it isn't my forte, but I've shared knowledge on the forums on my high armor anti pally builds for mages, and I try to give everyone cool PL pictures that I work hard on. When Im in game I always keep order in Townes and thoroughly report anyone being innapropriate. I don't have to do any of this; GoA is a thank you not a
Role.

On to your list W.E, King Richie still plays often as indicated by his hey zap check ins, phys. has a very time demanding job, my guild leader Jaytb is in a weird time zone lol and he's going through real life stuff. He's still on almost everyday, but in the morning or late nights EST. Dawn moved to O&C in the guild I'm in, but I haven't played in months. Logged on earlier and she wasn't on, but still on the roster. I see cowboyjim in game everytime I'm on, and I'm on a game break as I stated in my going away thread, due to school (I'll be more active the 22nd).

[CrimsonTider]

I think a lack of content has a great deal to do with things. If you look at the time put into the research, guides, and sharing we all have participated in (I have yet to post a "guide", but I can assure you some of my research and thoights have gone into helping to form some), when the content is recycled and we are at a point where skills are maxed and gear is the only true debatable topic, burnout is innevitable. If we look at all that is out there, is there truly anything which has NOT been covered or discussed?

One thing I thought before my selection was that GoA's had more of a "voice". Not necessarily from a management standpoint but from a creativity/suggestion standpoint. It has been mentioned/asked multiple times as to why GoA/AoA/senior members aren't polled or asked for input before new content comes out. I thought this WAS the case until after my selection. I was sadly mistaken. Please understand, I do not want to control the game, but I feel I know what the community wants from my time in game and at all levels, and would think STS would be interested.

Which brings me to my next point. If we DO look at the amount of guides and focus on the suggestion threads (Ellyidol's bear overall threads for example), we never see a response from the devs. Why would someone want to put the time into becoming creative or researching the game when their work is neither acknowledged not discussed by those who CAN make these changes?

Being helpful is more than just guiding new players and making informative posts, it is also having a voice for the community. If that voice is not heard, or we feel it is ignored, then the position loses it's "lusture". I am asked daily to bring something to the devs or if I have heard something from the devs on particular issues. When I tell them that the program doesn't work in this manner, then I get the response "Well why do we have GoA's?"

I will part with that question....

[LADYHADASSA]

GOA started as a wonderful program idea, what I see is that many became active in forums and give away contests to achieve this status and be seen. The program base has been set for those who are in forum more than those that are in game. After being in PL faithful for a long time, I could personaly list several people who deserve this title from their work and dedication in game. The one who help peeps while in charecter, bless peeps with items, gold, mana, health, who help new players in figuring out how to kill bosses, correct foul language ans talk with conversation, befriend the ones who just begin, take people and teach them pvp, the ones who ensure other players have bunny ears, hearts and luck. The ones who do random acts of kindness. These players are the guardians of Altera, these players do not have a goal of a title, these players are the ones who bring enjoyment to the game and encourage others to remain.

On another note I jave seen Ellidoll in game often, many people have so many players that they go unseen but are infact in game, not all choos identicle names, after a few charecters a persons main can only have so many changes in spelling :).

In game players such as and without question not limited to:
Ruselio
Lucilulu
Jadedsun
Fallscreek
Onemanwarcrew
Twinkinstein
( ill edit this shortley have not had enough coffee to re call names lol)

All of these players mentioned are in the game, they do nit sit for hours on forum to answer questions and make help guides, they are game active, they all give time, gold, items, use plat to assist, they all have multiple lvls of charecters, many climb into lower lvl toons to assist in maps teaching others how to play pl live and in person. Some are in pvp and are examples of good sports and teach others how to pvp to enhanse fun, lets face it loosing in pvp all the time is just not fun. Some of these players have given from 25k to 1 mill away no contests, no hope of fame just to do it, these people have given away millions in items, not just some trash pink but top of the line gear to assist another player. These people have given hours upon hours to pl for no reason other than they love the game and love to help.

In my view players such as this ARE the True Guardians of pl and are examples of people who have morality because they live the way they play.

I am in no way saying people that are in the program are not these things some are, while others just put on a show so sts would reward them.. I know this beyond question, because I have many toons, I have asked several "guardians" while in game questions, simple ones, just to see how they responded, a couple outright called me a noob and where very rude. One I removed from my main account friends list because their behavior was ignorant in town to a new very polite player, whom I befriended and is a sweet person behind the tune, another was so full of himself intown because of his shield he mis informed towns people about what being a guardian was.

I agree with wounded this program should continue but this should not be a popularity contest that is based on forum activity.

[LADYHADASSA]

Nmyspaceship and Zre are players i did not mention and I am sure there are many more...

To all those who help others because that is the heart of who you are a big thanks you are who keeps players in the game, you are what people should be in and out of game.. Full of integrity, honesty, a heart that blesses others, helpers, givers, and most of all you bring true smiles to others laughter and joy. You are an example of Christmas year round the spirit of giving! Never change :)

[Suntv]

Maybe it's an incentive to remove guardian status from those who are inactive for more then a month or stated that they're having a break from this awesome game? Guardianship comes with responsibilities and you have to devote some of your time to this game. Inactivity doesn't comply. Just my 2 fiat cents



- Max Keiser!!

[Ellyidol]

After all that's happened, I'm quite confident that the status is just a thank you - nothing more. It's like winning a championship or something, it doesn't mean that you have to keep playing the sport for the rest of your life. Some people think its like a Miss Universe win, but that's a competition - your given the choice to join, compete, and win therefore having responsibility.

However, there was no question or form of "contract" when I, or any other, GOA was appointed. I just refreshed the forum, saw the post with my name, and was entitled as a Guardian. No message was sent out informing us about what was expected or about any type of responsibility it would entail, so to me that means this title doesn't carry any type of responsibility with it. If being knighted with the title meant more responsibility, we weren't given the choice whether to accept or not.

[CrimsonTider]

Maybe it's an incentive to remove guardian status from those who are inactive for more then a month or stated that they're having a break from this awesome game? Guardianship comes with responsibilities and you have to devote some of your time to this game. Inactivity doesn't comply. Just my 2 fiat cents



- Max Keiser!!

And those responsibilities are?

[Lorddeathz]

Can I join this guild?

[LADYHADASSA]

Can I join this guild?

This is not a guild being talked about.. This is talking about an honor given to players from sts for their help and assistance in forums and games. :)

[JaytB]

I haven't read all comments, but just wanted to say that I have my reasons why I'm posting less and less on the forums. I'm sure some of you know why that is already, but If you're really interested to know, PM me.

As for the game, everybody has busy periods in their lives when the game has to take a second place. I'm in such a period now. To me, it has nothing to do with boredom, lack of creativity or a plat hungry STS. It's simply prioritizing the short amount of hours there are in each day.

[WoundedEagle]

Maybe it's an incentive to remove guardian status from those who are inactive for more then a month or stated that they're having a break from this awesome game? Guardianship comes with responsibilities and you have to devote some of your time to this game. Inactivity doesn't comply. Just my 2 fiat cents



- Max Keiser!!

I think STS hasn't in the event some of those players came back.... I think the past is the past, and it should be cleaned up. Thanks for replying everyone!

-we

[RedRyder]

Maybe it's an incentive to remove guardian status from those who are inactive for more then a month or stated that they're having a break from this awesome game? Guardianship comes with responsibilities and you have to devote some of your time to this game. Inactivity doesn't comply. Just my 2 fiat cents



- Max Keiser!!

It's a THANK YOU not a badge of authority. No guardian has to do a thing, even immediately after getting a shield, if they so wish to they can take their leave for whatever reason they please. I'm tired of people saying we have duties to uphold. Getting the status taken away for innactivity is just insane. There was only one instance that the status was taken away, and it was fully justified. There's no other reason as to why one of us would lose it.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m279/MADNIGGA2K5/55f13514.jpg


Back to happy red lol :)

[Matutd]

I don't think we need more guardians. The guardian program was a reward to players who helped out the community. Ok I know a few people who deserve the title, but the guardians don't have to help people once chosen. It isn't a title that says "come ask me all of your questions, I know the answer" and instead more of a "I was helpful in game and on forums, i am happy to help". This is why I don't think we should have more guardians just because others are leaving, and instead when we think the people deserve it.

[noobmigo]

GOA started as a wonderful program idea, what I see is that many became active in forums and give away contests to achieve this status and be seen. The program base has been set for those who are in forum more than those that are in game. After being in PL faithful for a long time, I could personaly list several people who deserve this title from their work and dedication in game. The one who help peeps while in charecter, bless peeps with items, gold, mana, health, who help new players in figuring out how to kill bosses, correct foul language ans talk with conversation, befriend the ones who just begin, take people and teach them pvp, the ones who ensure other players have bunny ears, hearts and luck. The ones who do random acts of kindness. These players are the guardians of Altera, these players do not have a goal of a title, these players are the ones who bring enjoyment to the game and encourage others to remain.

On another note I jave seen Ellidoll in game often, many people have so many players that they go unseen but are infact in game, not all choos identicle names, after a few charecters a persons main can only have so many changes in spelling :).

In game players such as and without question not limited to:
Ruselio
Lucilulu
Jadedsun
Fallscreek
Onemanwarcrew
Twinkinstein
( ill edit this shortley have not had enough coffee to re call names lol)

All of these players mentioned are in the game, they do nit sit for hours on forum to answer questions and make help guides, they are game active, they all give time, gold, items, use plat to assist, they all have multiple lvls of charecters, many climb into lower lvl toons to assist in maps teaching others how to play pl live and in person. Some are in pvp and are examples of good sports and teach others how to pvp to enhanse fun, lets face it loosing in pvp all the time is just not fun. Some of these players have given from 25k to 1 mill away no contests, no hope of fame just to do it, these people have given away millions in items, not just some trash pink but top of the line gear to assist another player. These people have given hours upon hours to pl for no reason other than they love the game and love to help.

In my view players such as this ARE the True Guardians of pl and are examples of people who have morality because they live the way they play.

I am in no way saying people that are in the program are not these things some are, while others just put on a show so sts would reward them.. I know this beyond question, because I have many toons, I have asked several "guardians" while in game questions, simple ones, just to see how they responded, a couple outright called me a noob and where very rude. One I removed from my main account friends list because their behavior was ignorant in town to a new very polite player, whom I befriended and is a sweet person behind the tune, another was so full of himself intown because of his shield he mis informed towns people about what being a guardian was.

I agree with wounded this program should continue but this should not be a popularity contest that is based on forum activity.

Agreed.
Hadassa, haven't seen ya on in a while.
Or Oneman.

Y'all two were hilarious.

[Appleisaac]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought goa was more of a rewarding system for players like wounded or appollo who spend a lot of time helping people and playing the game. I don't see why the system needs to be killed because (even though they would still be helpful and friendly without goa) it's like a reward to them.

As I said correct me if I'm wrong, but these are just my few thoughts on the matter...

[RedRyder]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought goa was more of a rewarding system for players like wounded or appollo who spend a lot of time helping people and playing the game. I don't see why the system needs to be killed because (even though they would still be helpful and friendly without goa) it's like a reward to them.

As I said correct me if I'm wrong, but these are just my few thoughts on the matter...

That's EXACTLY all it is

[PatsoeGamer]

Woundedeagle... Funny I was thinking the same thing as you yesterday evening. I loved the detail you went into on all the players! I havent seen a player sporting GoA shield in game for ages! I remember the long list of GoA's and I wondered where everyone had gone to. Like others in this thread, for me if I become GoA I would be honoured, and again like others - if it happens, it happens. I actually think its the ultimate goal of pocket legends, to be recognised by the devs and STS (our gods of Alterra) as well recognised, well respected people. IMO - its the ultimate goal.

I wondered if new players actually knew what a GoA shield meant, I bet 9/10 new players will simply ask 'What shield is that?' instead of 'cool shield, as a GoA can you help me?'

I'm going to post a suggestion on GOA in the right area on this, because I think it would improve the game and make it more useful for new players

[PatsoeGamer]

Here's my suggestion http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?45765-GoA-Enhancements

[Kalielle]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the Guardian program as it is, but I agree that new Guardians need to be chosen regularly - not to replace the old ones but to add to their ranks. In every game the player base changes over time and some of the players who were the most active in the past will become less active. There is nothing wrong with that, and I think all of us who knew people like Royce and Yanis will always respect them for their contributions to the game even if they took a break from playing. Like others said, being a Guardian is a recognition for past activity and is not the same as being an Ambassador, where you volunteer to be visible and active in game at all times.

Also, a lot of us who play less still read forums and care about this game much more deeply than we would about a game that we just abandoned. I consider myself to be in this category. Just because I won't grind to the cap doesn't mean that I don't care about the game anymore. I discuss it quite frequently with Elly and others on our private guild forum, and I also read the forums here regularly. If it doesn't show it's because I don't feel the need to post in every thread if I don't have something to new to say.

[Swimmingstar]

I think the program should be shut down... The whole thing. Remove all titles and stuff. Unless you (STS) will turn more into GOAs. I think most of the GOAs left because you haven't kept the spirit of the game. Less creativity with game... And more complaints. I liked the game in early 2011. It was fun, everyone was nice and had fun. In the GOA post, it says the status could be removed from GOAs not keeping spirit of the program. I think you are breaking that rule a little. And I also think you are going over the part where it says. A fun free to play game!

[Matutd]

To be honest now, I think the program should be scrapped. I mean the current GoAs should get to stay as a guardian, but no others should be appointed, or keep the program and remove the shield, (once again, current guardians keep them). Then we will honestly see who is a helpful person and who wants a shield.

[Zeus]

Here, Wounded and I will probably give you very different answers.

I believe that this program has declined to the point where it may be past a salvageable point. I think it's best to let it die out and turn the GoAs back into senior members. A few may be hurt, but the ones that are genuine are going to keep on being as active and useful as ever.

This. I already do not wear my shield nor wear the forum status. IMO, it should be scrapped up and removed. The forums and community best thrived when people wanted to help for the sake of helping, not for some sort of status.

NOTE: I'm not accusing anybody of doing so. I'm just saying, if you look back into the pre-GoA age, the forums was a lot more helpful and genuine place.

Also, the GoA title has gotten me more attention that I have ever asked for or wanted. It's nice at first, but honestly, it gets old fast. I like people talking to me genuinely, not treating me as a guardian. The title prohibits that in some cases, hence why, I have perhaps a handful or two of real friends, and then many accomplices.

[NECROREAPER]

It's a THANK YOU not a badge of authority. No guardian has to do a thing, even immediately after getting a shield, if they so wish to they can take their leave for whatever reason they damn well please. I'm tired of people saying we have duties to uphold. What the hell? Getting the status taken away for innactivity is just insane. There was only one instance that the status was taken away, and it was fully justified. There's no other reason as to why one of us would lose it.
)

Regarding this, I believe this is part of the reason the AoA were introduced. We DO have a responsibility, duty, and image to uphold. I quote this from Pandar; our AOA guidelines:




Don't ever abuse your role in the world of Alterra. Ambassadors are held to the highest standards and this means being polite and friendly at all times when you're logged into an AoA account. If you're feeling grumpy and feel like you might get rude, log in to your regular account.

As Ambassadors, you are the gold standard for behavior in Pocket Legends. You are a role model and an example for all. Any bad or rude behavior from an Ambassador will have a hugely negative impact on the entire program.

Please note that Spacetime Studios reserves the right to remove any Ambassador at any time for any reason


The AoA are the group that GOA never was, and never asked to be. Guardianship was a reward, AoA is a 'reward' but also a duty to the community as well. AoA are here to resolve disputes, to help new AND old players, to be a friend and mentor, and to be a walking help center. People assume that GOA were supposed to be all those things, and because of that assumption I believe the AoA were created. We're not only here for new players though, as I've helped tons of 60+ characters to answer questions on builds, items, drops, etc.


In short, if you need something, come to an AoA, not a GOA (no offense GOA).

[Aikiebo]

It's a program that has lost its luster,


Today ... it's almost irrelevant.


The quality of GOAs has been declining. If we look at the order, do you see the later generation of GOAs making as many guides. On average, the quality has declined with time.

When the program was first introduced, there were many people asking how they could become a GoA. Today, there are few people striving to become one. People are no longer actively trying to become a GoA, Note the lack of threads and posts from people asking how to become a GoA - hence how I pointed out why this program seemed irrelevant.


I believe that this program has declined to the point where it may be past a salvageable point. I think it's best to let it die out and turn the GoAs back into senior members. A few may be hurt, but the ones that are genuine are going to keep on being as active and useful as ever.

WhoIsThis, you keep saying in this and other threads that the quality of GoAs have declined.

So.. the first 2 or 3 generations meet with your approval? According to we's list, there has been 10 generations. If the first 3 are "high quality", lets look at the remaining 7 generations. I want you to tell me which of these people you think are "low quality":

4th generation: Mysticaldream
5th: Ellyidol, Apollo
6th: Redbridge
7th: petrichor
8th: woundedeagle, Otukura
9th: Jaytb, CrimsonTider, StompArtist, Conradin
10th NavyGreen, Darkfader

Who??? Who on this list is "low-quality"?

As far as NavyGreen and the others that are inactive. WHO CARES: evenutally we will all stop playing this game. People will go inactive. There is no way that someone has to cont. to play a certain amount of time after recieving the honor.

As far as NavyGreen goes, people are just upset because they or the person they wanted to get appointed didn't. They are being petty sore losers. Yeah, NavyGreen wasn't on forum long time. Was active player for long time tho. And it's ok to award a new person some times.

It is so rude to go around saying how the newer GoAs are low-quality.

There are few guides that need to be made. Making guides isn't something that a GoA needs to do unless they want to. It proves nothing.

Then this notion that because less people are asking to become a GoA, that PROVES that the GoA program "has lost it's luster", is low-quality, no one cares. First off, not sure it is actually less people asking in recent times. Second, PEOPLE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO ASK. The get jumped if they do.

Exactly who is low-quality and exactly what has declined?

[WoundedEagle]

WhoIsThis, you keep saying in this and other threads that the quality of GoAs have declined.

So.. the first 2 or 3 generations meet with your approval? According to we's list, there has been 10 generations. If the first 3 are "high quality", lets look at the remaining 7 generations. I want you to tell me which of these people you think are "low quality":

4th generation: Mysticaldream
5th: Ellyidol, Apollo
6th: Redbridge
7th: petrichor
8th: woundedeagle, Otukura
9th: Jaytb, CrimsonTider, StompArtist, Conradin
10th NavyGreen, Darkfader

Who??? Who on this list is "low-quality"?

As far as NavyGreen and the others that are inactive. WHO CARES: evenutally we will all stop playing this game. People will go inactive. There is no way that someone has to cont. to play a certain amount of time after recieving the honor.

As far as NavyGreen goes, people are just upset because they or the person they wanted to get appointed didn't. They are being petty sore losers. Yeah, NavyGreen wasn't on forum long time. Was active player for long time tho. And it's ok to award a new person some times.

It is so rude to go around saying how the newer GoAs are low-quality.

There are few guides that need to be made. Making guides isn't something that a GoA needs to do unless they want to. It proves nothing.

Then this notion that because less people are asking to become a GoA, that PROVES that the GoA program "has lost it's luster", is low-quality, no one cares. First off, not sure it is actually less people asking in recent times. Second, PEOPLE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO ASK. The get jumped if they do.

Exactly who is low-quality and exactly what has declined?

Let's not start flames. Don't want to shoot out names or call people out, it's not cool...

[Cascade]

Why must there be so much drama. Can't we just get rid of the GoA program and be done with all this kissing up to be a GoA and all the GoA drama that has been going around?

[Petrichor]

I do not even know what to say to this. I never truly did understand what this program is, nor did i ever look into it. I do not really see it as a big deal. Great, people get praised for helping people more. That does not make others as worthy just because their name is not listed or acknowledged. If people in the community see you as being an equivalent than I don't really get the difference. Maybe I don't fully understand seeing as I have never been active on the forums, nor will I ever be. It's just not my thing. Not everyone is going to make it publicly obvious what they are doing to help everyone. I for one, just do it because I do not think it's fair not to share the knowledge that you acquired to someone who asks. I'm not jealous, nor am I upset. I just want to say you don't need to call me a bad role model because I don't talk about things on here. My way of helping has been in game, and it always will be. Almost every day I am either giving advice to people who ask, answering questions, buying items or giving gold, teaching importance of certain skills and weapons, or helping out with basics. Did you know this? No and it is doubtful you ever would have if I didn't say that. Not everyone knows that this exists and not everyone wants to use it. I have seen some of the most generous people in game, who when i asked if they had ever gone on here, said no. One of the most giving people I know in this game, lucilulu/dopeydaddy does more for some people than some would even realize. Some of the things he does I would even find it difficult to do myself. I won't say what because that's private for him, he doesn't need the attention for that.
It seems like the lust for the title seems to be all that matters. You can still be the equivalent of a "GOA" without having the title. You don't need the recognition to be a hero or even just helpful. I know the "spotlight" has been hard on some and not everyone who is worthy is going to want that. Gosh, I am going to be super lame and use batman/spiderman/superman as an analogy. They're some of the greatest recognized superheroes in the media. I'm sure most have heard of them and know their accomplishments so I will not go into detail. Anyways, they each created an alter ego so that they would not be in the "spotlight." And yet, people continued to love them and look up to them. Basically I am trying to say that not every person who does good wants to be recognized by others. I do believe the lust for the fame, the title, and the ever exclusive shield has put a dent into the meaning of it. I won't go too far into detail as this is not a psychology lesson. However, for those who have studied it will have heard of Immanuel Kant. One of the most recognized points in his theory is that which talks about intention and a means to an end. This basically referred to when something you are doing is not as important to you as what you hope to achieve by doing it. Whoever agrees to this and abides by it does not really enjoy whatever it is in itself, to them it just something they are doing to get what they want. The action was good but the intention was not. I think this relates to what the program has become to some. Helping people is not very important to them, could perhaps even be bothersome, but they do it in hopes of the title they will achieve in the end. They don't truly enjoy helping people out of the good of their heart, it is just a job they are doing to earn the status. I'm not saying this applies to everyone. I am just saying that it seems like this has become a reality.

For me, the title above my avatar was merely a way to cover up the fact that I was a "junior member" while most others were senior members. I'll admit that. I started posting on forums more in hopes of finally achieving that senior status. Then they changed it and I believe I am a member now? I have to double check on that. I'm not saying it's dead, I just believe that it was never truly "thriving." Unlike AOA, they are not specific requirements that must be followed upon recognition besides abiding by the TOS. It is not a job, nor is it a necessity. Life moves on and sometimes it brings people with it. Sometimes it makes people so busy that it does not give them time to enjoy everything they want to. Eventually, people find other things which satisfy them and they tend to move on from the things they once enjoyed. Nothing is going to satisfy everyone forever and at some point we need to move on. Life never stops for anyone. I still don't know what to say to any of this. I just know that these are my thoughts which I have thought for a while. On a side note, I would like to say that as much as I never had much a passion, I still hurts to be called 'low-quality' or not a 'good-model.' I don't need to meet your expectations to prove my worthiness. I can do what I would like and that could be enough for me. Not everyone is going to have the same opinion on this matter. You cannot criticize someone for what they do or have done until you actually know what they to do contribute. Everyone is on their list for their own reason. I do not know these reasons but I am sure that the devs knew when they made the decision. They obviously looked into it and didn't make the decisions off the top of their heads in the moment. Everyone on there is worthy and always will be. Even if this list ever gets removed, they are still worthy. Whether it is life, or boredom it's bound to occur at some point. That's when you must make the choice of which road you want to take. I suppose that's my two cents and I do not think anyone's opinion will change it. I just felt a need to comment as I feel personally offended. :disturbed:

[KingFu]

@Aikei, If he meant the same thing as I did, then I don't believe he was saying that all the newer generations of GoAs don't deserve it, but rather the standards set have lowered. It started off with players like: Royce, whom is still remembered as a true legend that helped the entire community at the time to understand mechanics (his knowledge is still being spread through the game from other players as well), Yanis with his tireless work on creating lists of every pink in game, Phys with all of his bird info and charts/graphs that helped people comprehend puzzling game mechanics, and more. Now, I think most of the newer generations definitely deserve it, such as Crim, Jay, Petrichor, etc. However, people like Phys, Yanis, and Royce, as stated above, really made people think those were some of the "requirements" to become a GoA. It made the program look like something that would be extremely difficult to achieve, that'd require tireless work to post guides, and help others, and basically discover things no one has in the game before. Now, clearly not everyone on that list has done such. I was in the "4th gen", and I personally don't think I posted threads nearly as glamorous as theirs.

Maybe my/our expectations are too high, and we are looking for another Yanis to be named GoA. I think those that saw the program launch from the start have a different idea of what it represented as opposed to people who haven't, who may have a different opinion on what it represents:) It's a very controversial discussion on what to do with it at the time being, but if it continues the path it has led these past few months, then it looks like it will die out.

[Aikiebo]

Let's not start flames. Don't want to shoot out names or call people out, it's not cool...

I understand what you are saying. Problem is, it doesn't apply. Why? Because there ARE NO low-quality people on that list. That was a rhetorical question. There are no low-quality people on that list.

How does one even determine who is low-quality and who is high quality? If I'm on a public bus with 20 other people. How can I figure out who is low or high quality?

The flaming is constantly rudely suggesting that the recent GoAs are low-quality. That's an insult. Not, to mention, incorrect.

Ok, so, I'll put it this way instead.

Instead of the op stating WHO he think GoAs are "low quality", tell me what are the things a "low-quality" person does. But be exact and accurate. To keep stating a rude opinon without backing it up at all is awful.

NONE of those people are low-quality anythings.

Again: Mysticaldream, ellyidol, Apollo, Redbrdige, petriclior, woundedeagle, Otukura, Jaytb, CrimsonTider, Stompartist, Conradin, NavyGreen, Darkfader

[FluffNStuff]

Just want to mention I am still quite active in game, for now.
Now as to why so many guardians are on break, let me toss out a few explanations:
1) The number of guardians not playing right now is no lower then the percentage of players from their generation still active. It is only being noticed because it something people can 'chart'.
2) Guardians play hard, so they tend to burn out faster then more casual players.
3) While the game is constantly changing, there is much less to discover then there was before. A lot of the Guardians were players that loved to investigate the different mechanics of the game and share what they learned with others. Take a look at the guide section and you will see so much that is based on the testing the Guardians did.

[Pharcyde]

Some info:

DawnInfinity is at order and chaos.

[Aikiebo]

@Aikei, If he meant the same thing as I did, then I don't believe he was saying that all the newer generations of GoAs don't deserve it, but rather the standards set have lowered.
It's a very controversial discussion on what to do with it at the time being, but if it continues the path it has led these past few months, then it looks like it will die out.

Mystical, I hope that he didn't mean "low-quality", "quality has declined", etc. I truly hope that. In real life there are words that describe people who go around looking down their nose at others and fabricating "reasons" why they think they are better than others. So, I hope you are right.

But he has said that about 8 times in this thread and about 6 or 8 times in others threads as well. I mean, these exact same insults, over and over again. Hopefully, you are right. That is was just a poor choice of wording that once said, kinda just got repeated without really thinking it through.

And I know exactly what it is like to look back at a game's origins and lament sadly about the changes. But the people aren't different. People can't write the flagship guids today. Why? Cuz they already written. Things change in a game. All kinds of things. STS games are no longer the tiny community that it was in the begging. These changes happen in all games.

In the beginning everyone knows everyone cuz so few playing. But, when there 2 million people playing, you can't know everyone.

[Moogerfooger]

But he has said that about 8 times in this thread and about 6 or 8 times in others threads as well. I mean, these exact same insults, over and over again. Hopefully, you are right. That is was just a poor choice of wording that once said, kinda just got repeated without really thinking it through.



He is entitled to his opinion, just like you are, and if he wants to repeat that opinion ad-nauseum that is his right, just like you have repeated certain things in the past ad-nauseum which is your right. To sit and call someone's opinions "insults" is the very thing you have repeatedly railed about in the past, and is not open-minded in the least.

[Aikiebo]

He is entitled to his opinion, just like you are

To sit and call someone's opinions "insults" is the very thing you have repeatedly railed about in the past, and is not open-minded in the least.

Hey! Yeah, I agree with you, he is entitled to his opinion just like anyone else. But, if you, idk, actually read what I wrote, you will see that I didn't tell him he wasn't entitled to voice his opion. In fact, just the oposite: I asked him to clarify his position - not delete it.

Yes, he is entitled to go through life catagorizing people as "low-quality" and others as "high-quality".

He is entitled to come to the forum and say, "I think the GoA Program should be abolished because the more recent generations are "low-quality" and their "quality has declined". But, if he does, other people are going to say, "hmm... I don't think these people are low-quality". That's ok for people to do.

I think that if someone is going to make such a statement, they should be prepared to back it up. Especially when said about 15 times in the last week and especially when suggesting such a large/dramatic change. But, if he can't or don't want to back it up, that's ok too. He is entitled to share his opinion even if he can't/won't back it up.

As far as the "insult" thing goes. Saying someone is "low-quality" is an insult. Like saying someone is ignorant. It's an insult. Now, maybe it is your opinion that someone is ignorant, mabe you're even right, but it is still an insult. But this list of GoA are not low-quality.

But, if someone is really going to insist that the GoA program should end and state the primary reason for that is because they are low-quality, I think they should back that up. But, you're right, they don't have to, lol.

Again: Mysticaldream, Ellyidol, Apollo, Redbridge, petrichior, woundedeagle, Otukura, Jaytb, CrimsonTider, StompArtist, Conradin, NavyGreen, and Darkfader

[KTpantyhose]

I still have interest in learning more about goa and what it may take to join morgaan haha

[LADYHADASSA]

Agreed.
Hadassa, haven't seen ya on in a while.
Or Oneman.

Y'all two were hilarious.

Lolz thank you :) we are in game we have many charecters so for some we are missing if we do not jump in our main accounts, we dont end game pvp we are in lower lvls mostley 26 and 35, pl is our rest and relaxation time :) other times we are in various accounts working with new peeps helping them understans the simple things such as trade, where to find quests, how to fight hosses and explanation of skills, other times we take peep in locked room and teaching basic pvp manners ( oh mercy lol) give skill understanding etc. Other times we are undercover in random act of kindness mode :)

Pm me ill give ya a list of charecters so when you are in game we can find you and say hello, of course we love to have fun and laugh when at all possible :)

See you soon :)

[LADYHADASSA]

He is entitled to his opinion, just like you are, and if he wants to repeat that opinion ad-nauseum that is his right, just like you have repeated certain things in the past ad-nauseum which is your right. To sit and call someone's opinions "insults" is the very thing you have repeatedly railed about in the past, and is not open-minded in the least.

Mooofooooooooo!!! You are right on target well stated and you are another old school player I know is a good example for others :)

Merry Christmas!

[XghostzX]

I don't think that GoA necessarily has to be taken so serious. I think it's a way to promote the people that are very good to this community, contribute, and have been a long help to us all. One that gives back to the community. As petrichor said, there are way too many people out there that fit this role, but it would simply defeat the purpose of GoA by having tons of them. To me, it should be an honor for this game to be a GoA: it's just promoting the fact that you're one of those players that will always have PL's back. :)

My recommendations anyway for GoA are probably whoisthis (attackelf), dopeydaddy (lucilulu), and Cloakker. Not all of them are dedicated to these forums, but it's the in game action that counts and they're always there to help others in game.

[Zeus]

I do not even know what to say to this. I never truly did understand what this program is, nor did i ever look into it. I do not really see it as a big deal. Great, people get praised for helping people more. That does not make others as worthy just because their name is not listed or acknowledged. If people in the community see you as being an equivalent than I don't really get the difference. Maybe I don't fully understand seeing as I have never been active on the forums, nor will I ever be. It's just not my thing. Not everyone is going to make it publicly obvious what they are doing to help everyone. I for one, just do it because I do not think it's fair not to share the knowledge that you acquired to someone who asks. I'm not jealous, nor am I upset. I just want to say you don't need to call me a bad role model because I don't talk about things on here. My way of helping has been in game, and it always will be. Almost every day I am either giving advice to people who ask, answering questions, buying items or giving gold, teaching importance of certain skills and weapons, or helping out with basics. Did you know this? No and it is doubtful you ever would have if I didn't say that. Not everyone knows that this exists and not everyone wants to use it. I have seen some of the most generous people in game, who when i asked if they had ever gone on here, said no. One of the most giving people I know in this game, lucilulu/dopeydaddy does more for some people than some would even realize. Some of the things he does I would even find it difficult to do myself. I won't say what because that's private for him, he doesn't need the attention for that.
It seems like the lust for the title seems to be all that matters. You can still be the equivalent of a "GOA" without having the title. You don't need the recognition to be a hero or even just helpful. I know the "spotlight" has been hard on some and not everyone who is worthy is going to want that. Gosh, I am going to be super lame and use batman/spiderman/superman as an analogy. They're some of the greatest recognized superheroes in the media. I'm sure most have heard of them and know their accomplishments so I will not go into detail. Anyways, they each created an alter ego so that they would not be in the "spotlight." And yet, people continued to love them and look up to them. Basically I am trying to say that not every person who does good wants to be recognized by others. I do believe the lust for the fame, the title, and the ever exclusive shield has put a dent into the meaning of it. I won't go too far into detail as this is not a psychology lesson. However, for those who have studied it will have heard of Immanuel Kant. One of the most recognized points in his theory is that which talks about intention and a means to an end. This basically referred to when something you are doing is not as important to you as what you hope to achieve by doing it. Whoever agrees to this and abides by it does not really enjoy whatever it is in itself, to them it just something they are doing to get what they want. The action was good but the intention was not. I think this relates to what the program has become to some. Helping people is not very important to them, could perhaps even be bothersome, but they do it in hopes of the title they will achieve in the end. They don't truly enjoy helping people out of the good of their heart, it is just a job they are doing to earn the status. I'm not saying this applies to everyone. I am just saying that it seems like this has become a reality.

For me, the title above my avatar was merely a way to cover up the fact that I was a "junior member" while most others were senior members. I'll admit that. I started posting on forums more in hopes of finally achieving that senior status. Then they changed it and I believe I am a member now? I have to double check on that. I'm not saying it's dead, I just believe that it was never truly "thriving." Unlike AOA, they are not specific requirements that must be followed upon recognition besides abiding by the TOS. It is not a job, nor is it a necessity. Life moves on and sometimes it brings people with it. Sometimes it makes people so busy that it does not give them time to enjoy everything they want to. Eventually, people find other things which satisfy them and they tend to move on from the things they once enjoyed. Nothing is going to satisfy everyone forever and at some point we need to move on. Life never stops for anyone. I still don't know what to say to any of this. I just know that these are my thoughts which I have thought for a while. On a side note, I would like to say that as much as I never had much a passion, I still hurts to be called 'low-quality' or not a 'good-model.' I don't need to meet your expectations to prove my worthiness. I can do what I would like and that could be enough for me. Not everyone is going to have the same opinion on this matter. You cannot criticize someone for what they do or have done until you actually know what they to do contribute. Everyone is on their list for their own reason. I do not know these reasons but I am sure that the devs knew when they made the decision. They obviously looked into it and didn't make the decisions off the top of their heads in the moment. Everyone on there is worthy and always will be. Even if this list ever gets removed, they are still worthy. Whether it is life, or boredom it's bound to occur at some point. That's when you must make the choice of which road you want to take. I suppose that's my two cents and I do not think anyone's opinion will change it. I just felt a need to comment as I feel personally offended. :disturbed:

Beautiful post. +1

I wish people would read this and not be intimidated by the big wall of text. It has MANY useful points.

[Pharcyde]

I kinda see GoA's like a good Samaritan. They are usually not recognized for good deeds or acts of heroism, but they do it because they believed in it and did what they thought was right.

[XghostzX]

I kinda see GoA's like a good Samaritan. They are usually not recognized for good deeds or acts of heroism, but they do it because they believed in it and did what they thought was right.

Couldn't have said it better. +1

[WhoIsThis]

Hey! Yeah, I agree with you, he is entitled to his opinion just like anyone else. But, if you, idk, actually read what I wrote, you will see that I didn't tell him he wasn't entitled to voice his opion. In fact, just the oposite: I asked him to clarify his position - not delete it.


My post was deleted by the moderators. Apparently it was too "negative". Either way, I have made it clear that I have no aspirations to become a GoA.

But reading through the rest of your posts, you seem like a good candidate for GoA.

1. Long posts
2. Appears to be quite active on forums since recently joining

Best of all,
3. Promotes the official line while disagreeing with those that don't

Edit:
By the way, I was not being sarcastic.

[Jugernugett]

Sts should pick some more:)! I agree, I haven't seen a lot of my alterra friends on pl....

[Moogerfooger]

Hey! Yeah, I agree with you, he is entitled to his opinion just like anyone else. But, if you, idk, actually read what I wrote, you will see that I didn't tell him he wasn't entitled to voice his opion. In fact, just the oposite: I asked him to clarify his position - not delete it.

Yes, he is entitled to go through life catagorizing people as "low-quality" and others as "high-quality".

He is entitled to come to the forum and say, "I think the GoA Program should be abolished because the more recent generations are "low-quality" and their "quality has declined". But, if he does, other people are going to say, "hmm... I don't think these people are low-quality". That's ok for people to do.

I think that if someone is going to make such a statement, they should be prepared to back it up. Especially when said about 15 times in the last week and especially when suggesting such a large/dramatic change. But, if he can't or don't want to back it up, that's ok too. He is entitled to share his opinion even if he can't/won't back it up.

As far as the "insult" thing goes. Saying someone is "low-quality" is an insult. Like saying someone is ignorant. It's an insult. Now, maybe it is your opinion that someone is ignorant, mabe you're even right, but it is still an insult. But this list of GoA are not low-quality.

But, if someone is really going to insist that the GoA program should end and state the primary reason for that is because they are low-quality, I think they should back that up. But, you're right, they don't have to, lol.

Again: Mysticaldream, Ellyidol, Apollo, Redbridge, petrichior, woundedeagle, Otukura, Jaytb, CrimsonTider, StompArtist, Conradin, NavyGreen, and Darkfader

I'm sorry, but I have absolutely zero interest in debating the pros/cons of yours or WhoIsThis' points. To be honest, I could care less about this argument. I merely stated he is entitled to state his opinion repeatedly if he wants, and so are you, and for you to try and belittle his opinions as "insults" is no bueno. WhoIsThis thinks about everything he says before typing it, I can promise you that from knowing him in-game and off-line/email for over a year. He thinks everything out, and has his opinions for thought-out reasons. I am not necessarily agreeing with him, but again I care ZERO about this argument so you are wasting your time trying to convince me of why you think he is wrong. Respectfully, you are in no position to criticize anyone for repeatedly bringing up a point, to be honest. It is a free forum, and as long as he or you or any of us do not violate the ToS or run afoul of the devs, everyone's say on matters in trying times as these are equally important, or at any time.

[Blind]

I liked the game in early 2011. It was fun, everyone was nice and had fun
Ah, tell me bout it Swim. Good times.

[Aikiebo]

Again: Mysticaldream, Ellyidol, Apollo, Redbridge, petrichior, woundedeagle, Otukura, Jaytb, CrimsonTider, StompArtist, Conradin, NavyGreen, and Darkfader

I merely stated he is entitled to state his opinion repeatedly if he wants, and so are you, and for you to try and belittle his opinions as "insults" is no bueno.

Respectfully, you are in no position to criticize anyone for repeatedly bringing up a point, to be honest. It is a free forum, and as long as he or you or any of us do not violate the ToS or run afoul of the devs, everyone's say on matters in trying times as these are equally important, or at any time.[/QUOTE]

Once again, lol, I agree. I wasn't critisizing him for bringing up a point. If there was any criticism at all, it was for not backing up his point. That is why I asked him to clarify it.

Again, I wanted him to back up his point, not delete it.

Think: If I didn't want him to bring up his opinion, why on earth would I ask him to back it up, lol. I would stop talking to him in hopes he would stop discussing it.

Some members are wailing on and on about how the devs aren't listening to them. This whole thread is an excellent example of how that is not true. In the two long posts that he made, WhoIsThis did an fantastic job of compiling many people's thoughts into an orderly list to help try to make sense and perhaps bring about some changes that they think will be improvements. It was a monumental job and he was thanked a great deal for doing it.

Now, in this thread, a dev actually took the time to say basically, "I respect your opinion, in fact, I respect it so much, please tell me more". The dev said this twice.

Now, the op had a fantastic chance to bring some brilliant insight to light. But, what happened, lol? Instead of stating some logical reason why the GoA program should be scrapped, he gave two reasons that, well, don't make an intelligent arugment in favor of ending the program.

The two reasons he gave was:

1. newer GoAs haven't written any guides
2. non-GoAs have stopped asking how to become a Goa

Well, everyone knows that GoA's are not expected to write guides. Look at the original posts that define what the GoA program is.

Likewise, everyone knows that people are not supposed to ask how to become a GoA. That's been stated by devs and when people do that they get jumped fast and hard by several people. (Not to mention the fact that at least 2 people asked how to be a GoA on THIS thread.)

It is my opinion, that most the people who keep harping on the idea of disbanding the GoA program are simply bitter and poor sports about who has been picked. It is not that the GoAs are "poor quality". It is because the people complaining wanted to be GoA themselves (or someone they liked).

This poor sportsmanship would be better handled by that wonderful gift, "The Private Message", instead of repeatedly insulting our current GoAs.

As far as the "insult" thing goes. First off, the only reason I am even making any part of THIS post is cuz MF keeps saying that I'm critisizing the op for giving his opinion.

Opinions and insults are two different things. Sometimes something can be both:

Example 1: "I think peperoni pizza is the best kind."

That's my opinion. Some would agree, some won't. And there is nothing insulting about it. It is a simple opinion.

Example 2: "I think someone (specific) is ignorant."

That's my opinon. Some would agree, some won't. And it is INSULTING. It's an opinion that is also an insult.

I find it hard to believe that this needs to be explained.

I'm not complaining that he brought it up 15 times, at least, in the last week. As stated above, if I'm complaining at all, I am complaining cuz he keeps bringing it up without backing it up.

Now, some might say, well, I don't want to back up my opinion. I want to make a wild statement, give no proof or reasoning. Well, ok, go for it, lol. But, if you do, then you can't complain if you "opinions" are not taken seriously.

You can't say the devs are not listening to your opinions if you are not saying WHY you feel that way.

No one is going to take this seriously:

Guy A: "I think that the 2-plat per boss should be changed"

Guy B: Why?

Guy A: "Because it tarnishes the game"

Guy B: How does it "tarnish the game"?

Guy A: Well... hmm.. can't really say, but take my word for it, IT TARNISHES THE GAME.

Guy B: How does it "tarnish the game"?

Guy A: I already said, take my word for it....

Etc. etc. bla bla bla...................

[Aikiebo]

Lol, sorry, double post

[Moogerfooger]

With all due respect, Aikebo, I have repeatedly said I have zero interest in discussing the actual content of this argument between WhoIsThis and yourself. I did not say either you or he was right or wrong, nor was I agreeing with him. I merely stated he is entitled to his opinion and to state it repeatedly, as were you. You railed on him for posting something/an opinion repeatedly, which you yourself have done in the past.

Let me say this again so you see it, as you have obviously ignored my point: I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE ARGUMENT AND WHO IS RIGHT OR WRONG OR WHY. I read three lines of your post and stopped, because to be honest your posts are sometimes long-winded I lose interest, which is a shame because you often have excellent posts and viewpoints. And this comes from me, who tends to have long-er posts on occasion.

My only point is that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and to belittle someone else's opinion, something YOU have often defended (people's individual opinions) in the past, was worth commenting on to me.

If you quit trying to convince people you are right and someone else is wrong, you would find more traction for your ideas. Look at Yvonnel's post. I disagree with him in some aspects, but I still respect his opinion because it is a well-thought out post, like may of yours. I did not try to argue why he was wrong, in my eyes. I already respected Yvonnel anyway from times past, but now even more so for being able to make a sweet post, even if I disagree with it.

I think we all need to hug it out, and remember no one is 'wrong' for their opinions :D Ultimately, arguing 'right' or 'wrong' on an internet forum is like sticking your head in a blender: Painful, noisy, and at the end of the day, pretty stupid :rolleyes:

Imma gonna go play some SL and PL, see ya.

[saool]

someone mentioned, a few comments back the AoA's...uhm they don't do much to help all they do is stand in forest haven most of the time, but they're afk a lot of that time as well...or simply disregard questions players might have.
Don't get me wrong some are very helpful just not all...

And I second Siejo lol he is awesome. I should know I'm his secretary lololol

[saool]

I love pepperoni pizza too yum...I'm hungry now

[Sassinya]

I enjoyed reading this thread, through all topic variations. Did notice several opinions not entirely in line with my own, but found most enlightening!
Thank you, that is all.

[Aikiebo]

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE ARGUMENT AND WHO IS RIGHT OR WRONG OR WHY

Moogerfooger, I get it, we all get it, you don't care about WhoIsThis's opinions. Ok, that's ok. If you're glad about that, I'm glad about that too. But, in my previous posts, I wasn't speaking to you, sorry. I wasn't trying to ignore you. Just, stating my opinion. In fact, in the last post, I only refered to you in the third person. That means, I obviously wasn't speaking to you directly. So, no need to worry, I understand that you don't agree or disagree.

Ok, so the rest of this post after this paragraph, I am no longer speaking directly to you. I am just responding to the thread in general. Enjoy your gameplay.

Disagreeing, is not belittling. When people post on here, they need to be prepared for people voicing opposite opinions. If they are afraid of a this, they should use that "Wonderful Gift" the "Private Message" to get their point across to the devs.

As far as the length of my posts. Last night I made a long post, and apologized, because in that SPECIFIC case, I really wasn't thinking and hit submit before checking for length. I "all capped" specific just now cuz I don't want to try to say that my long posts in the past have been accidental. That's not what I'm saying, just that one.

But, right now, at this point, tons of people are making HUGE LONG POSTS THAT DWARF mine. In fact, speaking of dwarfs, several people's including this op's make my posts look shorter than Sleepy, Dopey or any of the other dwarves.

It is hypocritical to tell someone to keep their posts short when you disagree with them but accept posts that are WAY, WAY, WAY longer because you agree with them. I'm not pointing fingers, but it's not cool to do that. No post should ever be longer than it needs to be. But, my posts are short compared MANY MANY others of just the last 3 days and also the last two weeks.

[Moogerfooger]

In fact, speaking of dwarfs, several people's including this op's make my posts look shorter than Sleepy, Dopey or any of the other dwarves.


Lolz at dwarves. And I rag on other people for post length privately, don't think I pick on just you :p

[NECROREAPER]

The proof is in the pudding.... Or quote from Samhayne, lol:


GoA and Star Guard are "thank you" recognition from STS for players who go above and beyond. They are in no way obligated to do anything as a result of receiving this recognition.

[Darkfader]

I'm here in forums daily and ingame daily but switching between all of my twinks so ppl might not see me ingame active. ;]

[WoundedEagle]

someone mentioned, a few comments back the AoA's...uhm they don't do much to help all they do is stand in forest haven most of the time, but they're afk a lot of that time as well...or simply disregard questions players might have.
Don't get me wrong some are very helpful just not all...

And I second Siejo lol he is awesome. I should know I'm his secretary lololol
AFK and not always around I your view, I can understand. Disregard for others questions, bias.

[Pandar]

Hey guys,

Thank you for your feedback about the Guardians. I think there were a lot of good points made and I'm sure there is room for improvement moving forward. Your thoughts have given us some ideas to work with and I think that is a good thing.

Unfortunately this thread has sort of devolved into arguing and whatnot so I'm going to close it at this point. Thank you for the input though, it is really appreciated!