What the new update has brought forth...

[Zeus]

I didn't know where to post this, but I figured that you couldn't go wrong with Pocket Legends General Discussion.


It's December 16th! Update day! Everybody is in high spirits for the campaigns! Then, the dreaded news is announced: Platinum per instance, when regarding the holiday campaigns for both SL and PL.

Star Legends/Pocket Legends:


Important Details:

• Star Legends receives a new campaign pack: Planet Voleria.
• Star Legends receives the update for their holiday campaign.
• Holiday campaign is announced to be paid per instance.

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Pros [For STS]:

• New campaign is announced, thus lightening the complaints from SL players regarding the platinum per instance.
• Money is rolling in.
• People are amazed by the creativity of Voleria.

Cons [For STS]:

• Due to the platinum per instance, players have lost their trust in STS as a company.
• People at Pocket Legends are insulted because all of the creativity seems to be heading to the SL department.
• People begin to boycott platinum purchases
• Much drama on the forums. Rants are not handled very well.
• Many veterans/contributors to the game are quitting.
• The platinum per instance was likely detrimental, as people would have likely spent more if they didn't feel like they were forced to.

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Pros [For Players]:

• For Pocket Legends, people are ecstatic about the new items for Christmas, even if the stats remained the same.
• For Star Legends, players are ecstatic about Planet Voleria.

Cons [For Players]:

• Regarding both games, players are beginning to take notice to the rise in platinum prices. For one reason only: Platinum per Instance.
• Players are getting banned/getting infractions for voicing their opinions.
• Posts are stifled, even if they may contain rage but have LOTS of constructive criticism.
• Players feel as if they need to be forced to pay platinum.
• Players feel more like they are a statistic rather than an actual customer.

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Aftermath:

• Spacetime Studios developers are not taking the proper approach to appease the masses. Telling your LOYAL customers to leave the game or that you as a company need money to fund the game is NOT an valid excuse. Why? If the campaigns had INNOVATION like VOLERIA possesses, many people would be fine paying platinum prices.

• Nickel and Dime-ing Players is NOT the way to go. "Packs" would be appreciated. The "Carnival" ride/ticket system is NOT the approach to make. IMO, it's one of the most outrageous marketing decisions a business can make, especially in a game such as an MMO.

• Players are enraged that their posts are being stifled. STS, this is NOT the time to make them even more angry. Yes, the feedback hurts or creates a lot of drama, but people need to vent. Let them, as long as they are respectful in their ranting. If you delete their post, all their hard-work and passion into that post is gone. To what ends? To save you a little face? It's detrimental: Players as a community would view it as a sign of weakness for not being able to face the music.

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What We Did Wrong:


What We Did Wrong [Players]:

• This game is their property. In the TOS, it specifically states that you are LICENSING a piece of software that they, the developers, can make changes to for whichever reason they so desire. Thus, riots are not right. That's like going onto somebody's private property or house and graffitting their house. It's disrespectful. THIS IS THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY.

• If we didn't like the changes they went with, we shouldn't have bought platinum. In this day and age, money speaks A LOT louder than words. How do we know this? Take a look at AT&T. When they had exclusivity on the iPhone and people were moaning about the horrible coverages, what did AT&T do? NOTHING. When the iPhone's exclusivity contract ended, what did AT&T do? They released a new and improved network. Their LTE 4G network which promised better coverage and data speeds.

• Analyzing their posts to the extreme. It's the holidays, even the developers are people. Thus, they feel the heat too. I sure would not like to be the person wanting to deal with tons of angry people. Thus, take it a bit easy and don't over dramatize things. STS has fixed things for us in the past, they will now as well.

What They Did Wrong [SpaceTime Studios]:

• STS, we are your customers, thus we deserve a little respect, that is if you want us to buy platinum. Deleting our posts/locking threads/making COLD PR statements is not the way to go. It's like getting slapped in the face. With all due respect, we deserve better than that. We, the loyal players, stick with you through the rough and harsh times along with the good times. Why? We care about the game. Deleting our VALID thoughts and opinions is not the way to go, even if you do not agree with the player. A prime example of this is Pharycde. Many of his posts were deleted, even some that were completely constructive. What's the deal with that? WhoisThis is yet another example. One of the MOST respectful and passionate players I have seen in the game, yet he receives an infraction/black mark for in the developers view, twisting the statements of the developers.

• Charging us for HOLIDAY content. STS, in just about any MMO, holidays are for getting together and giving. Even Macy's or big organizations give HUGE SALES on their items. It's about the community spirit. Have you guys lost sight about that?

• Cold PR Statements. I'm sorry, but if you noticed in politics, when you are a public figure, you need to watch your wording. What does this mean? Learn to deliver statements that appease the masses but still benefit you. It's called compromise. This IS NOT a place where you bring your emotions and biased approach into it.

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How To Fix It [My Biased Opinion]:

• In order to show that you guys are still in the holiday spirit, give Christmas Eve and Christmas as freebie days for the campaigns. Charging platinum per instance was actually detrimental, because players did not spend platinum on elixirs then. Maybe doing this would actually BOOST elixir sales.

• Making a SINCERE public statement. An apology can go a long way. It shows that even as a business, you can still admit immoral and ethically questionable actions.

• Bring back the INNOVATION. SL has been getting the innovation, yet more players play PL. Thus, isn't PL the cash cow? Why is SL getting the creative campaigns then? Show both customers that you care. Don't make the PL side feel like they are funding SL.

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That's all my thoughts for now. I may add to this post should I feel need be.

Please, developers, it's a plea from me. Do not lock this thread. Just try to read it and understand what we're getting at.

Disclaimer: I know that I have done many of the things I have stated, but after calming down and reflecting, this is what I think and how I think we can solve this dilemma.

[Tvis]

Well organized and well thought out :)

[Elyseon]

Well Said, and hope its well taken

[Conradin]

I agree- thanks parth, plus i needa talk to you. I have a great idea.

[XghostzX]

Thank you Parth :)

[Ayc2000]

That was amazing. Perfectly thought out, looking at it from both sides, polite... Parth, you wowed us all :) I hope the devs see this...

[NotYoCookiez]

Remember how ao3 or 2 was like breath taking? ( so I've heard ) well SL just came out awhile ago and well basically I think that's there point there at right now.

Great Examples and well writing using facts :D

[Pharcyde]

Wow Parth...... That was a bombshell of epic wording.

I would thank but I'm maxed for the day.

I will be watching this thread, the developer reaction will determine if PL has any future left or if it will become a failed game.

Edit: I don't even want to think about how rough PL players have it. I play solely SL, and SL still has a lot of big issues. STS needs to take some serious time off for the holidays and relax. They have their work cut out for them when they get back.

Standing issues in SL:
- Increasingly bigger gap between rich and poor
- Only ways to make money: Get incredibly lucky, buy platinum, or farm for extended periods of time collecting small 2k drops and hope for a rare worth 10k, or a legendary pistol.
- Very poor pvp system, in it's prototype stages
- Several players have already hit 41. The heat is already on for STS to produce another level cap before players get bored and leave.
- Combat inbalances
- lack of variety for gear stats

[Gaddy]

I don't agree with a couple of your conclusions a much as others, but I'm glad you're willing to try to look at the issue from both perspectives. Thats why you're a star player, Apollo.

[Zeus]

I don't agree with a couple of your conclusions a much as others, but I'm glad you're willing to try to look at the issue from both perspectives. Thats why you're a star player, Apollo.

Haha, I didn't expect everybody to agree with it. :) Even when you try to be unbiased, it's still biased, Bahahaha.

Feel free to post your perspective, or PM me. I'm good either way. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion! :)

[Zeus]

I agree- thanks parth, plus i needa talk to you. I have a great idea.

Sorry for the double post, but I'm on my phone.

Conrad, feel free to PM me :)

[WhoIsThis]

Wow Parth...... That was a bombshell of epic wording.

I would thank but I'm maxed for the day.

I will be watching this thread, the developer reaction will determine if PL has any future left or if it will become a failed game.


It's a risky post as well. Considering that several of us have already gotten PMs.

It remains to be seen whether this post or my other long post gets locked. Lets hope for the best at this point.

[Zeus]

It's a risky post as well. Considering that several of us have already gotten PMs.

It remains to be seen whether this post or my other long post gets locked. Lets hope for the best at this point.

It was a risk that I knew I was taking, but if it pays off, it would be well worth it.

[WhoIsThis]

It was a risk that I knew I was taking, but if it pays off, it would be well worth it.

Trust me - me, Pharcyde, Noob, we all took it. We all were willing to risk a perma-ban.

We know what you're going through. You've put an immense amount of time and effort into the both the forums and game - to see that investment implode over the past few months has been intolerable.

But at this point, there has been little or no response from the developers at this point.

[XghostzX]

None of you diserve a ban-- I won't talk about this much since bans aren't meant to be shared upon forums-- but Attack elf and Apollo are the last people that should be banned.

[Pharcyde]

None of you diserve a ban-- I won't talk about this much since bans aren't meant to be shared upon forums-- but Attack elf and Apollo are the last people that should be banned.

Agreed. If anything was to happen to them. This game would implode on itself.

[TANKKAAR]

Much respect Apollo... As always you have chosen your words wisely and I hope this thread is well received (and listened to) by the devs!!

[XghostzX]

Agreed. If anything was to happen to them. This game would implode on itself. Agreed :).

[Zeus]

Much respect Apollo... As always you have chosen your words wisely and I hope this thread is well received (and listened to) by the devs!!

Thanks Tankkaar. I hope the developers don't take this thread as a flame to be deleted/locked but more as a message. It's quite hard to read through 300 angry comments, so essentially I summed up the widely agreed views in this post, along with my own perspective on it.

[Deadsoldiers]

Its good that you postet that and it was risky because we dont know how sts will react to more critism but if they go.on locking this ill think about leaving. Nice talk apollo Deadsoldiers

[Draopwnzall]

Ty Apollo, your an amazing person!

[Silentarrow]

Very well said Apollo.

[Samhayne]

Hey Apollo,

Thanks for taking the time to put this post together. I really appreciate it and am always impressed with the effort you put into the community. It shows how much you care for it and why you were chosen as a Guardian of Alterra oh so many months ago. Just fyi, I changed the thread title to remove the "non-biased" from it. You know, there is always a bias :)

Honestly guys, I feel just horrible about the situation. As the guy that Spacetime hired to manage their online communities, I feel like I've let both you, the players and the company that I love, down. You and I both know that without you, our dedicated players, our games wouldn't be what they are I thought I had done the work where I could be out on leave with our new baby and things would be fine. .

When I step back and look at it, the issue is changing a flat fee of content to a turnstile one. Our intent was to make the holiday content more accessible. In looking at last year's event and the Halloween content we wanted to make it easier for people to get into it, hence the change to have a lower up front price (2 Plat now, vs. 10 Plat previously). This content has always been optional for Platinum. It was last year, it is again this year. That doesn't change the you can play the entire rest of the game for free.

For me the biggest issue is when you say you feel a loss of trust with Spacetime over this. In retrospect, I think that we should have done a better job of telling our players that this change was coming and why so that you would always feel informed and cared for. I know that we have a lot of work to do to try and regain that trust.

[Appleisaac]

Maybe the point of the Christmas event was not farming after all... :-)

[Draopwnzall]

Yay! Sam is back!

[MightyMicah]

Thank you Sam! I really appreciate your activity with the forum community!

[Samhayne]

Yay! Sam is back!

Well, trying to get some time on the forums in around changing diapers and helping out my wife (she's recovering from her c-section... ouch!). We have more family coming in today to help around the house and I'll be back in the office late Monday.

[Moogerfooger]

Hey Apollo,

Thanks for taking the time to put this post together. I really appreciate it and am always impressed with the effort you put into the community. It shows how much you care for it and why you were chosen as a Guardian of Alterra oh so many months ago. Just fyi, I changed the thread title to remove the "non-biased" from it. You know, there is always a bias :)

Honestly guys, I feel just horrible about the situation. As the guy that Spacetime hired to manage their online communities, I feel like I've let both you, the players and the company that I love, down. You and I both know that without you, our dedicated players, our games wouldn't be what they are I thought I had done the work where I could be out on leave with our new baby and things would be fine. .

When I step back and look at it, the issue is changing a flat fee of content to a turnstile one. Our intent was to make the holiday content more accessible. In looking at last year's event and the Halloween content we wanted to make it easier for people to get into it, hence the change to have a lower up front price (2 Plat now, vs. 10 Plat previously). This content has always been optional for Platinum. It was last year, it is again this year. That doesn't change the you can play the entire rest of the game for free.

For me the biggest issue is when you say you feel a loss of trust with Spacetime over this. In retrospect, I think that we should have done a better job of telling our players that this change was coming and why so that you would always feel informed and cared for. I know that we have a lot of work to do to try and regain that trust.

I hate to quote your entire post, but here goes.

1. It is not the turnstile fee that ultimately bothers most of us. For starters, we know it is an optional side campaign. But come on, everyone wants to check out the Winter Festival, right? It was a smash hit last year. What bothers is us that the ticket is good for one boss/4 hours. We all know that farmers are going to kill bosses fast...many casual players want to run around the level first for a while, check it out, enjoy the sights, try to finish the quest, AND get a chance a while later to kill the boss and maybe get a cool drop. That was what I was doing initially the first couple of times I went into Winter Village. And then a 4x 66 joined, roared to the boss, soled, killed, left....leaving the other 4 (me and some 30-40s I was helping whack snowmen) missing out on a drop chance. You would have been far better served by either a) charging a flat fee for the content, or b) if you are really going to stick with the hated "ticket", and trust me it is hated by a lot of people...make an option for an hour, unlimited runs, for say 5p-10p in addition to the 2p per run. Everyone would be a winner, and although some people would still complain, I think it would be a fraction of what it is now.

2. Coldly dismissing your longtime players, deleting posts that were constructive from long-time vet forumers (I am not referring to some of the silly rage posts), and quashing/not addressing dissenting opinions are not how to keep your loyal long-time-paying players' trust. A lot of us are already wary and weary of the way the financial model is going, but hey, you are a business, we get that, and the items are optional. But when we start feeling like our opinions don't matter/are dismissed/are ignored on top of that, well...we see what is happening. People are quitting/leaving/going on hiatus. You will still succeed because many people are shoveling plat down their throats as evidenced by people are being 41 in SL already, and no one wishes you guys to NOT succeed, but human nature is what it is.

3. There is no denying, from most of our point of views, that Nuri's and Fang are very underhwelming creatively when compared to the Alien Oasis series, and even the Sewers, to some extent. When further compared to Voleria, we feel like we are spending our time and money on inferior product that has fallen behind on the STS creativity totem pole. We always appreciate new content, don't get me wrong. But if you guys took a bit more time to create another AO3/Voleria-caliber campaign for PL, you would make money hand over fist as well re-kindle some interest in PL, which has gotten somewhat stale.

Moog out.

p.s. hopefully the diaper situation is not too messy :D

[Whirlzap]

• Bring back the INNOVATION. SL has been getting the innovation, yet more players play PL. Thus, isn't PL the cash cow? Why is SL getting the creative campaigns then? Show both customers that you care. Don't make the PL side feel like they are funding SL.

OMG I just noticed that.
Perhaps they're just spending the extra creativity on SL to attract more players, I guess.

• Charging us for HOLIDAY content. STS, in just about any MMO, holidays are for getting together and giving. Even Macy's or big organizations give HUGE SALES on their items. It's about the community spirit. Have you guys lost sight about that?
Yes, this is a pretty boring Christmas to spend on PL without the Winter Event.
I think they should make it like 5 Platinum to get unlimited access or something, or just allow the whole thing for free on Christmas Day...(oh hey that's not a bad idea!;D)

[Whirlzap]

Hey Apollo,

Thanks for taking the time to put this post together. I really appreciate it and am always impressed with the effort you put into the community. It shows how much you care for it and why you were chosen as a Guardian of Alterra oh so many months ago. Just fyi, I changed the thread title to remove the "non-biased" from it. You know, there is always a bias :)

Honestly guys, I feel just horrible about the situation. As the guy that Spacetime hired to manage their online communities, I feel like I've let both you, the players and the company that I love, down. You and I both know that without you, our dedicated players, our games wouldn't be what they are I thought I had done the work where I could be out on leave with our new baby and things would be fine. .

When I step back and look at it, the issue is changing a flat fee of content to a turnstile one. Our intent was to make the holiday content more accessible. In looking at last year's event and the Halloween content we wanted to make it easier for people to get into it, hence the change to have a lower up front price (2 Plat now, vs. 10 Plat previously). This content has always been optional for Platinum. It was last year, it is again this year. That doesn't change the you can play the entire rest of the game for free.

For me the biggest issue is when you say you feel a loss of trust with Spacetime over this. In retrospect, I think that we should have done a better job of telling our players that this change was coming and why so that you would always feel informed and cared for. I know that we have a lot of work to do to try and regain that trust.

This post means a lot to me.
+1

[Samhayne]

I hate to quote your entire post, but here goes.

1. It is not the turnstile fee that ultimately bothers most of us. FOr starters, we know it is an optional side campaign. But come on, everyone wants to check out the Winter Festival, right? It was a smash hit last year. What bothers is us that the ticket is good for one boss/4 hours. We all know that farmers are going to kill bosses fast...many casual players want to run around the level first for a while, check it out, enjoy the sights, try to finish the quest, AND get a chance a while later to kill the boss and maybe get a cool drop. That was what I was doing initially the first couple of times I went into Winter Village. And then a 4x 66 joined, roared to the boss, soled, killed, left....leaving the other 4 (me and some 30-40s I was helping whack snowmen) missing out on a drop chance. You would have been far better served by either a) charging a flat fee for the content, or if you are really going to stick with the hated "ticket", and trust me it is hated by a lot of people...make it for an hour, unlimited runs, for say 5p. Everyone would be a winner, and although some people would still complain, I think it would be a fraction of what it is now.

2. Coldly dismissing your longtime players, deleting posts that were constructive from long-time vet forumers (I am not referring to some of the silly rage posts), and quashing/not addressing dissenting opinions are not how to keep your loyal players' trust. A lot of us are already wary and weary of the way the financial model is going, but hey, you are a business, we get that, and the items are optional. But when we start feelign like our opinions don't matter/are dismissed/are ignored, well...we see what is happening. People are quitting/leaving/going on hiatus. You will still succeed because many people are shoveling plat down their throats as evidenced by people are being 41 in SL, and no one wishes you guys to NOT succeed, but human nature is what it is.

3. There is no denying, from most of our point of views, that Nuri's and Fang are very underhwelming creatively when compared to the Alien Oasis series, and even the Sewers, to some extent. When further compared to Voleria, we feel like we are spending our time and money on inferior product. Again, everything is optional, but it is human nature to feel taken advantage of, so to speak. If you guys took a bit more time to create another AO3/Voleria-caliber campaign for PL, you would make money hand over fist.

Moog out.

No worries on the quoting Moog. I return the favor :)

For point 1. We're trying something new. We appreciate those who took the time to provide constructive criticism. I don't know if we'll keep the for pay access scheme. Obviously there are things about it that can be improved. To reiterate, part of our intent was to lower the barrier of entry for people to get in (2 Plat up front vs. 10) to allow more people to see it.

Point 2. That is my fault for going on leave and not having better moderation in place. I thought I would have time to spend on the forums myself, but, as some parents out there can no doubt attest, trying to do work from the hospital or when you first bring your new little one home, is a bit unrealistic ;)

Point 3. I'm sorry that you feel that way. I know Volaria is pretty darn cool, but I think you're selling the content short in Nuri's and Mt. Fang a bit short. The same design team that created Volaria did both Mt. Fang and Nuri's. I especially remember a bit of wow factor over Nuri's when it came out; I just think that the shine is off of it now as will invariably happen with Volaria. Also, just for perspective, we are running into technical limitations with Pocket Legends. There is a LOT there for PL now already and we run into size and space limitations when adding on to it (that we aren't hitting with Star Legends right now). That's why we currently are best served by re-using existing textures and audio assets (the boss sound effects, for example). We know we need to improve that if we want to continue to push what we can offer up.

Thanks, as always, for your input Moog!

[Moogerfooger]

No worries, Sam.....we know that real-life poop-machines aka newborns are priority #1 ;)

Just want to reiterate that if there were some different pay-for-access choices, such as a) 50p one-time b) 2p-per-run (dislike it, but it is an option) or c) 5-10p for unlimited per hour.... would keep most parties happy and also help you meet your business goals.

As far as part 3....I actually said "Holy ****" when I played through Voleria the first time (and dying a bunch of times due to those godawful sneaky mines, and saying "Why are there crosshairs on my chest? Hmmm? POWdead"). I understand about size limitations, I ran into that at my previous job sometimes. Other than some one-hit mob combos from a couple of the levels in Nuri's, I wasn't wowed and I don't think a lot fo other people were either, and even the one-hits were more annoying and sometimes unavoidable...that's not really creativity. Fang was much of the same. I think we want something with a "wow" factor to some extent....if you dudes created another Cyber-type quest series in a campaign again, that would be a step in the right direction and not require a vast increase in file size overall. I remember spending hours and hours playing getting Cyber for my three toons...more playing time by your player base will generally equate to increased sales, even if indirectly. Simply jacking up mob HP and having one hit bosses does not excite people. Cyber-type quests do, or some new angles to gameplay like the snipers/bunker hatches from Voleria.

[Ellyidol]

Sam, this is the first time I'm hearing about the technical limitations. With that in mind, I think I can be more understandable with the reusing of the content.

It raises the question though, what's keeping the size of PL from increasing? Is it the 3G factor?

Finally, on the bright side of moderation, I do like what Pandar has been doing. His response to the GOA thread was the first real response I've seen from moderation/development, and I found it very accommodating that he asked us what we expected, what we thought about it, etc.

That said, I personally think that having the content developers (maps, gear, mobs, character classes) interact directly to the community by being more forum-active would restore my confidence and trust into STS. It was mentioned in another thread, with the bear threads I've started as an example, that there was no response at all from moderation/development. If there were, I think it would give the impression to the players that we are still in mind and are being "cared" for. Basically, we just want attention :p

As always, wish you the best with your new family and happy holidays :)

[Samhayne]

Initial load size for mobile users is the main limitation.

[WhoIsThis]

Initial load size for mobile users is the main limitation.

Okay - I said to myself that I wasn't gonna post for a couple of days, but this is totally new information for us and this is the only thread where any of the senior members have gotten an in depth response. To date, this has been the most detailed non-PM discussion that has been given from a dev.

The situation in SL appears to be okay (for now anyways as the campaign was well received). PL though is in crisis.

The point I think many of us are stressing is that we want greater disclosure about these sorts of things. I know that the Android market has a limitation (I don't know about iOS) regarding app sizes and to bypass, the best solution has been to move to the SD card.

One app has as much as 1 gb on the SD Card:
http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/01/15/spectral-souls-by-ideafactoryhyperdevbox-arrives-in-the-android-market-weighs-a-whopping-1gb/

Second, as Moog pointed out, I'm a bit unhappy that many of my posts were deleted. They were not rage posts and I took time to carefully think through what I said.

Third, I have proposed this one to Pandar, about the possibility of something where we can discuss in private and ideally, be frank with each other without fear of moderation, or any other retributions. Ideally, it would be with yourself, the PL dev team, a few of the mods, Justg (among the entire team at STS, I'd say his reputation has declined the most among the community), and a select group of members. I could prepare a list if possible of who I think should attend.

Right now I think you are at a critical point. What happens in the next few months (and perhaps the next couple of weeks) will decide whether or not many of us forum veterans choose to stay. Look at the comings and goings threads. These are veteran players we are talking about. They are not quitting voluntarily - they are quitting because they feel they have no alternative but to vote with their money because all else has failed.

Feel free to ask Pandar and the other moderators. Many of us through PMs have had some pretty frank conversations and you'll find among the senior members, there's a consensus that things are going down the gutter. There is also now the overwhelming perception that our voices no longer matter - we may have helped turn this game into what it is now, but with so many players, the senior members don't matter. We have been told otherwise, but actions always speak louder than words.

It's not the money from a few veterans (which at most will be a few thousand) that you need to worry about. It's the fact that in many ways, they are the pillars keeping everything up. If the veterans leave, then one of two things happens - a mass exodus or the quality of the community declines significantly because of what's left.

[Samhayne]

RE: the size limitation. Yes, there are ways to work around it, but it's not simply done and our current tech doesn't include those workarounds. It's something that would be good for us to add, but right now we're working within our system's current framework.

[Skeokateva]

Amazing approach to a chaotic holiday hang up! Very well composed and neutral.

Im impressed. You voiced the community's point if view, pretty accurately I have been dealing with a lot of upset guild members, and we wanted to thank you for representing PL players and devs in this post, as we are all a part of this symbiotic relationship.
Let's please make every attempt from keeping the dev to player relationship from becoming, in any context: a parasitic relationship.

Thanks for your post!
Skeokateva

[Rodvik]

(Originally from SL Forums)

Guess I'll give my two cents on this matter and be constructive about it, since I'm normally clowning (due to the residuals of being bored half the time).

I just would like to start with that I'm pretty easily satisfied. My biggest issue with this game was from a few months ago, with the release of Slouch-O Productions, when I personally felt the game was getting too kiddie, and losing its "mature" vibe. Star Legends was starting to develop the same vibe as Pocket Legends, might I add this is why I didn't really get into PL was because I thought it felt too kiddie, and I made a long constructive post and to my surprise many agreed, some disagreed, but that's life. In the long run, I would like to think my post and the comments preceding for other dedicated players influenced STS in some shape, way, or form, in steering the game into its own direction, or should I say a "mature" direction, which I honestly think the masses of the players that play this game are "older" and would prefer a more mature vibe.

Has STS delivered? The past two content patches IMO have been amazing. They've had a "mature" feel to them and IMO things with a more mature vibe to them look "cooler". The content in Shipyard was great besides the commando set...lol, but even the Commando set had a "Mad Max" vibe to it. Now with the release of Voleria I couldn't be any happier with how the content turned out.


Anyways that's a bit off topic but lets get back to a lot of what has/is being argued in this post.


Due to the platinum per instance, players have lost their trust in STS as a company.
I honestly don't see where you're going with this? From the short time that I did try PL out, each instance, before they changed it, costed Platinum to play. I don't think there were THAT many complaints in the past, but I could be wrong, wrong to the point where there were a lot of complaints that STS decided to make the content free and refund the Platinum to those that had purchased it in the past. I think thats a pretty valiant thing to do. Why would you lose trust in your company over that? So with the release of the Holiday Winter Content they are sort of going back to the old ways. Its a mere 2 Platinum Per Instance. No where does that ring "I CAN'T ENJOY THE HOLIDAY CONTENT" anywhere. Enjoying the Holiday Content, assuming you can't purchase platinum, requires you to install a simple app and deleting it after. Which yields you 2-5 platinum. Obviously by those clicking on their free platinum offers STS makes money, but we aren't the only ones that have to eat. So they make .10 to .25 cents on your one app install, at least it was free for that person to experience "The New Holiday Content".

What if they did offer a "One Time Buy" for the Holiday Content, that costed 10-15 platinum to enjoy. Then we complicate things to the point where those people that were willing to install one app now have to install 5 and now they aren't willing to do that. Now what happens, its even harder for the masses to enjoy the holiday content. I think in the long run the people that are affected by the 2 platinum per instance budget are the ones that expect to go in there and farm pinks and vanities in hopes to benefit themselves. Pretty selfish if you ask me, but then again this is just a matter of opinion. =)

The instance isn't ALL that anyways, 2 platinum to experience it one time isn't asking for much.



People at Pocket Legends are insulted because all of the creativity seems to be heading to the SL department.
When PL recieved its content update, I had the opportunity to go back and Ebalere power leveled me from like level 20-30 or 35, I don't remember. I don't know the name of the instances (cause I don't play anymore). But I got to experience an Ice Level and a Swamp Level, and I was highly amazed by the "creativity" and "beauty" of these levels. So I can't really see what you mean by this. I was actually hoping they would incorporate something of the sort in the future for SL. Though you might be talking about the newer content in PL which I haven't experienced. I don't know how Mount Fang looks but I suppose if you made this above comment, it's no where near as extravegant as Voleria is.


People begin to boycott platinum purchases
Not much to say here. Only reason I haven't purchased more is because I still have a lot left over from my last purchase.


Much drama on the forums. Rants are not handled very well.
There's always going to be someone complaining, this game could be PERFECT but there would always be someone that's not satisfied. Welcome to human nature. Why do you think I post half of the posts that I post on the forums now, because 90% of them are whiners who are not satisfied with something or people who want attention for reaching level cap (which I have no problem congratulating for their hard efforts). I figured I'd doctor up some photos and post random bogus stuff to make people laugh, because that's what this community is unfortunately missing, SOME LAUGHTER! All it is is complaining, complaining, complaining. And 90% of the crap people complaining about is not even worth complaining about. That doesn't go to say that some of the complaints that are constructively argued aren't good valid points.


Many veterans/contributors to the game are quitting.
Sadly this is true, but I wouldn't put all the blame on STS for this. Guild Management Issues have lead and ended up to the departure of many great players as well.


Players are getting banned/getting infractions for voicing their opinions.
Can't comment on this too much either, as I do not know what happened, but with what I opened up with earlier, I voiced my opinion constructively and I also had that "concerned and displeased" tone within my post, yet STS still read and listened to what I had to say. Sam even ended up changing my title because it was so direct. I doubt STS totally ignores the posts that are made, and I doubt they just randomly go off and delete a post because they feel threatened. They more than likely have their reasons.


The platinum per instance was likely detrimental, as people would have likely spent more if they didn't feel like they were forced to.

Players feel as if they need to be forced to pay platinum.
People are going to spend their Platinum how they feel regardless of the limitations. If someone really wants to experience something they are going to pay for it regardless, ex: RIVET. As your comment does hold some valid true behind it, as people might have spent more if they didn't feel like they wre forced to. STS no where has MADE any of us, FORCEFULLY purchase any of their products. We do that out of our own free will. As you might feel 2 platinum is too much for an instance, like I stated above, you don't have to pay a dime for it if you complete one of the free offers. Which once again boils down to STS is a Company and have to make a profit somewhere to actually keep this game free to us. I think what everyone forgets in the long run that the majority of this game IS FREE. They unfortunately expect EVERYTHING to be FREE.


Sorry if I've upset anyone with my reply to this post, these are just my own opinions.

Thanks
-Rodvik

[WhoIsThis]

Rodvik here is a pretty good example of some of the newer players. To his credit, his post is very civil and well written - among the best I have seen from the newer players. This is not intended to be a derogatory post in any way.

Thoughts:
- Much lower expectations for new levels than we have
- The problem is that he/she is praising their past accomplishments, which were praiseworthy - the newest PL levels though have been entirely underwhelming and he/she has indicated that he/she has no played them
- Much easier to please, perhaps because he/she was not here during the prime of PL
- Assumes so far that all of the recent departures are due to guild issues - look in the coming and goings section; few are

SL is in fine shape right now, although there are issues as Parth mentioned so I suspect that most SL players will have no empathy with PL players predicament at the end game (assuming Rodvik's post is typical of what we can expect, and his post is much better worded than most).

As near the end of his post tells us, he doesn't realize yet what is happening behind the scenes.

The problem is that the we are being charged by the run. We are also being in many cases faced with heavy pressure to use elixirs. We veterans have all spent (or should I say invested) hundreds into the game each. In recent months, we have seen a poor return for our investment in PL. The problem is not that we are not willing to pay, it's that we aren't getting our money's worth.

2 plat x how many runs are we talking about here?

The big problem is not so much this winter festival as it is that it sets a precedent for what the future has to offer.

[Elysony]

Sam, I don't think you let anyone down, I hope everyone understands the work it takes to update 2 games and working on a third game, lots of work I just don't buy much plat so I wasn't for the update because just to do a couple runs is 6-10 Platinum . Sam I think you are a great person I am so glad we ( Pocket Legends ) has a Dev who actually listens and replys there opinion . Check some other MMO's out, see how many Dev's you find that reply and actually care . I will always trust STS because things like this ( Sam talking to us ) make me feel that STS isn't in it just for the money like orher MMO's are, I think you really are a great Dev . Thank you STS for caring, I hope Pocket Legends ( and Star Legends ) Grow very big .

[Samhayne]

- The problem is that he/she is praising their past accomplishments, which were praiseworthy - the newest PL levels though have been entirely underwhelming and he/she has indicated that he/she has no played them

It is a matter of perspective WhoIsThis. I appreciate your thoughts and the time you've taken to express them. However, I would say that Nuri's and Mt. Fang were pretty darn cool - especially Nuri's. I remember well when it came out! I loved the challenges and the unique story. We know that we won't please everyone everytime with what we do. It's also ok to have differing opinions :)

[Nightarcher]

Geez, this is the biggest collection of long posts I've seen. Here are my comments from the SL forums:

STS is expanding. Their games are getting more publicity, and the scale of their responsibilities is growing larger. The pressure to create original content in SL, keep PL going, and release DL soon is enormous, and they're definitely working hard.

The downside? With expansion comes less ability to address individual members/groups of the community and their concerns and feedback. It's something we're seeing more of, and something we will just have to get used to (to an extent). The devs aren't ignoring us; prioritizing is very difficult with all the pressure put on you by all affected parties, even moreso than the tasks themselves. Fixing bugs is much easier than changing a whole chunk of content and having to deal with all the repercussions.

--

Summary: It's inevitable. It's not the result (mostly) of players' or devs' mistakes. Even though Sam may go and do a stellar job responding community feedback, many things won't change no matter how much we hate them. (e.g.: 100% luck pots) It's a lot more like real life, actually. :)

[WhoIsThis]

It is a matter of perspective WhoIsThis. I appreciate your thoughts and the time you've taken to express them. However, I would say that Nuri's and Mt. Fang were pretty darn cool - especially Nuri's. I remember well when it came out! I loved the challenges and the unique story. We know that we won't please everyone everytime with what we do. It's also ok to have differing opinions :)

I have already indicated why I feel otherwise. Nuri's:


1. The environment did not look "new"; it looked like the old Forest backgrounds in Symphony, old bog backgrounds, etc. Madness looked like Alien Oasis. The others, such as Lion's Den looked new enough.

2. The monsters were not new in the case of Symphony; they said the same things as before

3. They just hit harder, with nothing more interesting (ex: in Lost Expedition, monsters could freeze you)

4. The bosses said the same things that prior bosses in the Sewers (ex: Bandit King and Queen, Goblin King, etc) said; and King Mynas was reused for the Snake Charmer

5. There was less creativity overall it seemed

Please see:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?44958-The-future-of-PL-...-long-term-recommendations-my-most-important-post-for-this-year





I want to draw your attention to the way that this thread has been proceeding.

1. All SL players more or less are satisfied because the new level is quite good

2. All PL players so far have agreed with Apollo or at least the bulk of what he said

3. Players who have indicated that they have played both the SL and PL end game agree that SL's endgame was much more satisfying because it brought something new to the table. Mines for example that had to be deactivated. Could we perhaps see something similar in PL - a magic mine? By contrast, PL's latest levels bring ... the same monsters that hit harder and have more hp, with nothing else.

[Samhayne]

What about the insta kill issue in Nuri's ? It's different and it helps promote good teamwork. Sure, not everyone liked it, but the monsters have different abilities.

As for the re-use of textures and audio, it's because the game is so freakin big that we're up against size limitations.

Again, it's ok to agree to disagree. Obviously, I'm biased ;)

[Moogerfooger]

What about the insta kill issue in Nuri's ? It's different and it helps promote good teamwork. Sure, not everyone liked it, but the monsters have different abilities.
)

Or helped promote plat-for-revive, depending on one's perspective ;)

I'm bowing out of these threads. I just get worked up over them, on both sides of the coin. The forums are a giant ball of drama right now, of which I have helped contribute to and that is no bueno. I've put my two cents out there, for what they are worth.

Lost in all of the drama is Ladyhadassa trying to do something really nice for Xmas.

[WhoIsThis]

The instant kill issue I think, felt as if it were well ... uninspired. So far, there has been no praise of it.

There is a reason why.

An instant kill needs an if statement, an a line of code altering the damage the monster does.

A mine needs for the art department to come up with a new model and texture, plus a script to implement the mine, and another to disarm it. I can see though how space limitations could affect this one.

Finally, the mines were game changing. The vents in Balefort Sewers forced people to change how they moved as well. There was very little change to the one hit kill procs in Nuri. Tanks often died in one hit. Nobody tried to coordinate as a team because of it. The one hit proc by contrast was time activated. It meant we had to either kill fast or use an elixir (which worsened the perceptions of elixirs as a necessity). The only reason why to coordinate as a team was for fast runs.

[Nightarcher]

Insti-kill Mines: People actually have to implement real tactics and skill! Elixir-addicts now have to pay attention too. ;)

[Rodvik]

Rodvik here is a pretty good example of some of the newer players. To his credit, his post is very civil and well written - among the best I have seen from the newer players.

Thoughts:
- Much lower expectations for new levels than we have
- The problem is that he/she is praising their past accomplishments, which were praiseworthy - the newest PL levels though have been entirely underwhelming and he/she has indicated that he/she has no played them
- Much easier to please, perhaps because he/she was not here during the prime of PL
- Assumes so far that all of the recent departures are due to guild issues - look in the coming and goings section; few are

SL is in fine shape right now, although there are issues as Parth mentioned so I suspect that most SL players will have no empathy with PL players predicament at the end game (assuming Rodvik's post is typical of what we can expect, and his post is much better worded than most).

As near the end of his post tells us, he doesn't realize yet what is happening behind the scenes.

The problem is that the we are being charged by the run. We are also being in many cases faced with heavy pressure to use elixirs. We veterans have all spent (or should I say invested) hundreds into the game each. In recent months, we have seen a poor return for our investment in PL. The problem is not that we are not willing to pay, it's that we aren't getting our money's worth.

2 plat x how many runs are we talking about here?

The big problem is not so much this winter festival as it is that it sets a precedent for what the future has to offer.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Rodvik here is a pretty good example of some of the newer players. To his credit, his post is very civil and well written - among the best I have seen from the newer players.


I am newer to the STS Community, in a sense that I'm actually more active now due to Star Legends. I dibbled and dabbled here and there with PL prior to SL's release, I even invested in a nice chunk of platinum in PL and won't ever get to use the rest of it which is a lot cause I have no intentions of going back to PL cause it isn't my "vibe" as I have stated. The way I look at it though is I help fund a project that STS had planned on working on in the distant future. Which might I add, I enjoy playing in my free time, and sometimes secretly at work. ( Don't tell my boss.. =/ )



Much lower expectations for new levels than we have


I would have to disagree, I have very high expectations for newer content, as does anyone whose sitting around grinding the same content for months would be. Im always excited to see what STS has up its sleeve in new content. Its honestly what keeps us around.



The problem is that the we are being charged by the run. We are also being in many cases faced with heavy pressure to use elixirs. We veterans have all spent (or should I say invested) hundreds into the game each. In recent months, we have seen a poor return for our investment in PL. The problem is not that we are not willing to pay, it's that we aren't getting our money's worth.


Regardless of my player status, I do know how this feels. I would classify myself as probably one step higher than a casual player, i play quite often, but I did go after the "Vanity Helm" and it did cost me a good amount of Platinum to get it with elixirs in the time frame I was left with. Though I also know that achieving this goal WAS possible without purchasing elixirs it just required "x" amount of time to accomplish which some of us don't have. Then again STS also mentioned that these end game vanity items are for "hardcore" players. Hence as an online gamer, I feel everyone shouldn't have it anyways. I played WOW for 8 years, not everyone was running around with top end gear, thats how online games should be. I don't want to be equal to EVERYONE in the game. If I put effort towards earning something I want to be able to show it off. Unfortunately a lot of aspects arent like this in SL. SL has many problems, especially the economy, that I am very upset about, but I just refuse to voice my opinion most of the time now a days because all people do is make 100 useless unconstructive posts about the issues on our forums. So it would just get lost in the mix and I could understand if STS was like "Great another Platinum Cost Issue Post". I hate to say it but its almost like most of the players in SL are just lazy and want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Maybe thats just how most of society is being raised now a days.

As for spending hundreds into the game, I have invested quite a bit of my hard earned money to SL already. I am satisfied with the content, even with the prices STS sets, because I guess Im not one of those people that is willing to drop "x amount of plat" if it cost to much. I can however say I do feel for all of the upset Veterans that do play PL due to the fact that you guys were the backbone into creating SL. So perhaps maybe I owe you guys a "Thanks" for funding a game I enjoy so thoroughly. Regardless of what many think STS does listen to us, I know first hand, and I was/still am just another player in our ever growing community. So hopefully you guys do get what you expect and deserve in your next expansion.

Might I add that STS has reduced the exp per level cap in SL, I do not know if they did in PL at one point or plan on doing it in the future. But getting from 35 - 36 in SL was like a 46k grind, which was pain staking, and now the 40 - 41 is only 28k. So someone in STS was listening to our cries. This will help alleviate the huge Plat dump most of us are willing to drop in order to achievement top level, and also help the more casual player reach this goal as well if they choose not to use elixirs.



Much easier to please, perhaps because he/she was not here during the prime of PL


I wasn't around for the prime of PL, so I would agree that I am probably much easier to please with content than most because with SL I don't know what to expect, where as you guys might have an idea of how the next PL expansion might turn out to be, cause its starting to get repititious.



SL is in fine shape right now, although there are issues as Parth mentioned so I suspect that most SL players will have no empathy with PL players predicament at the end game


I can tell you SL is not in fine shape, theres A LOT wrong with it. As I stated the economy is garbage and theres really no sense of accomplishment with gear cause you can pretty much buy a whole set "off the back of a truck", if you know what I mean. Then again maybe this is due to the constant whining and bickering of a lot of the SL community members who REFUSE to put forth any effort into achieving something. Like I said I played WOW for the longest time, I was even in a world first guild back in the days of Vanilla WOW. I personally like EXTREMELY CHALLENGING BOSS ENCOUNTERS where I'm bashing my head against my keyboard (or should I say phone or tablet now) trying to figure out the strategy on how to beat them. Where at the end of the day, we might get 1 or 2 "epic" items, but at least I know my group earned them. And guess what, you learn the strategy the boss gets easier and easier. Though as I stated before, people don't like effort anymore.


As far as your end game content, I hope it gets better, some of us do care about how you guys feel, because your money is as good as my money and the more funding STS gets the better they can improve their team which in turn will lead to a better PL and SL.

Thanks,
-Rodvik

[WhoIsThis]

Rodvik - the problems of SL are not nearly the magnitude of PL. The economy is not great. Some players want results instantly. True, but that is not a reason for a mass exodus.

In PL though, from it's zenith to today ... well, the tone of the threads here should give you an idea of what has happened.

[Nightarcher]

Rodvik, try being more concise. Not everyone has an extra hour to kill reading a post longer than the Great Wall of China ;)

[CrimsonTider]

I will say this Sam, at least your responses have actual thought and explanations to some of where STS is coming from. Others just tell us "thank you" and "go elsewhere" and this has rubbed quite a few the wrong way.

Thank you for actually taking TIME to respond.

[Rodvik]

Rodvik - the problems of SL are not nearly the magnitude of PL. The economy is not great. Some players want results instantly. True, but that is not a reason for a mass exodus.

In PL though, from it's zenith to today ... well, the tone of the threads here should give you an idea of what has happened.

Ya I can see by many of the posts the concerns of many PL fans at whats going on. Though just as most things in this world things age and eventually die. You can only do so much to something until you can't do anymore. I'm not saying STS has gotten to this point in PL yet, but eventually PL is going to "lose its flavor". Its like new video games, a company doesn't want to keep its same game or even its fan base doesn't want to keep playing the same game forever. They expect an improved version of it.

Thats the way I look at it, even with SL.

Pocket Legend Released its original content on "whatever date". Everything else is pretty much a DLC.

You can only do so much with something until it finally just gets old. Hence is why they are probably trying to branch off and explore other "themed" games. Such as possibly Star Legends and whatever Dark Legends is suppose to be.

As technology improves so do video games. What I mean by that is, maybe they have plans on the future for Pocket Legends 2 with a more visually stunning graphics engine. Things of that nature.

I installed DIABLO 2 a few days ago to give it a go around on my computer and was like "OMG, the graphics are terrible, and went straight back to SL"...lol

So who knows what STS has in store for the future, but all I know is PL eventually is going to have its expiration date, as do all games.


Rodvik, try being more concise. Not everyone has an extra hour to kill reading a post longer than the Great Wall of China

There you go sir.

[WhoIsThis]

Perhaps.

But what has been happening is drastically shortening the life of the game, which could be several years or more. Heck, WoW has been going on for how many years now?

[Ellyidol]

Perhaps.

But what has been happening is drastically shortening the life of the game, which could be several years or more. Heck, WoW has been going on for how many years now?

8, I think? And only now does it seem to experience a "slight" decrease in subscriptions.

[WhoIsThis]

8, I think? And only now does it seem to experience a "slight" decrease in subscriptions.

I'm guessing WoW probably will be fine. It's established and well known. There are other successful MMOs - Eve Online comes to mind. What I'm saying is, with the right mix of content, it's perfectly possible to have a game that will last a very long time. People still play Starcraft 1 in huge numbers, especially in Korea.

[Rodvik]

Perhaps.

But what has been happening is drastically shortening the life of the game, which could be several years or more. Heck, WoW has been going on for how many years now?

WOW has been going on as long as it has because each "addition" they add, its LOADS of content. I wouldn't even classify WOW expansions as expansions, they are pretty much a whole new game everytime they release one. What you have to take into consideration though is Blizzard is a rediculously huge company they have the funding and team to push out MASS amounts of content while having a team work on small side projects. WOW has also been going on as long as it has because there hasn't been any real game out there that can kill it.

I always told myself that WOW would eventually die only with another Blizzard game, and I honestly think Diablo 3 will kill it when it comes out.

Hell, Blizzard has its own college. lol

[WhoIsThis]

The point is that if they make the right decisions, PL can go on for a very, very long time even with limited resources. I am aware that this is an Indie title (at least for now), but with the right decisions, people will keep playing and new players will come.

Right now though, I feel wrong decisions are being made.

[Rodvik]

The point is that if they make the right decisions, PL can go on for a very, very long time even with limited resources. I am aware that this is an Indie title (at least for now), but with the right decisions, people will keep playing and new players will come.

Right now though, the wrong decisions are being made.

Understandable, and I'm pretty sure STS wants PL to go as long as they can. I mean the game was pretty much Mobile Game Breaking with its MMORPGing capabilities to being with.

[Fac3bon3s]

I was creating a post like this and saving it to post on Monday. I figured the dev's wouldn't be around on the weekend. I completely agree with everything Apollo has said.

[wvhills]

Hey Apollo,

Thanks for taking the time to put this post together. I really appreciate it and am always impressed with the effort you put into the community. It shows how much you care for it and why you were chosen as a Guardian of Alterra oh so many months ago. Just fyi, I changed the thread title to remove the "non-biased" from it. You know, there is always a bias :)

Honestly guys, I feel just horrible about the situation. As the guy that Spacetime hired to manage their online communities, I feel like I've let both you, the players and the company that I love, down. You and I both know that without you, our dedicated players, our games wouldn't be what they are I thought I had done the work where I could be out on leave with our new baby and things would be fine. .

When I step back and look at it, the issue is changing a flat fee of content to a turnstile one. Our intent was to make the holiday content more accessible. In looking at last year's event and the Halloween content we wanted to make it easier for people to get into it, hence the change to have a lower up front price (2 Plat now, vs. 10 Plat previously). This content has always been optional for Platinum. It was last year, it is again this year. That doesn't change the you can play the entire rest of the game for free.

For me the biggest issue is when you say you feel a loss of trust with Spacetime over this. In retrospect, I think that we should have done a better job of telling our players that this change was coming and why so that you would always feel informed and cared for. I know that we have a lot of work to do to try and regain that trust.

Sam this is much more reasonable than Justg saying "if you don't like it go somewhere else" (I know Pandar said Justg was talking to one specific person but that person was expressing an opinion that others, myself included, share) and Pandar saying "if you don't like X then don't spend plat on it". I've lost a lot of trust in STS but not in you as a person. I think you're the only one there who really cares about the players instead of the plat.

I haven't played winter fest at all this year and don't plan too simply because I don't want to be turnstiled. I would have preferred a one time fee (I would have paid up to 50 plat). Another reason is because you guys have killed twinking. If I thought I could farm some good pinks for my low level toons then I would have considered the turnstile approach but as it is I have no plans of ever playing my low levels again because you've removed kill farming and scale farming. I'm not going to give a lot of feedback than that because I'm not sure it helps and I recently realized I was too caught up in this game and have become more detached. It's STS's game and you can do with it whatever you want and I'll mind my own business and do my own thing in game. As I customer I don't mind paying for content but when it feels like I'm not getting what I am paying for or I feel like I could get a better game somewhere at a cheaper price then I'll leave too. I hope in the future more creativity is put into PL and we see better maps content wise than what we got Mt fang which is just recycled content from what we've had in the past or doesn't blatantly promote elixir use like Nuri's (which I thought would have been a great map (except for the recycled boss sayings) if you didn't have to be in a party of with at least 3 people on thrashers to complete it).

[Elyseon]

To me it seems that nuris was designed for elixir users. I have been instakilled by the 2 bad guys as a lvl62 warbird. Fang is just like the classic map with stronger mobs, it's not too hard although aside from Emma the bosses take no skill. Just lots of tanking and pots. The trash drops were repeats of the same old AO3 gear. And purple items mostly have disappeared. I kinda thought the whole swamp/circus/gypsy theme in Nuris was wierd. And all of the quests have been quite simple with no useful rewards, add the complexity u showed us in AO3

[Samhayne]

The trash drops were repeats of the same old AO3 gear. And purple items mostly have disappeared.

Regarding trash drops and purples, you won't see much emphasis on them going forward. Pocket Legends has a HUGE inventory of items (last count I heard was over 15,000 and closing in on 20,000) already. Our feeling is that we'll save the unique looks for the stuff people actually wear - pinks. Trash drops are just that, trash to sell to a vendor.

[Fyrce]

I've been thinking more about the recent changes. I am not going to say that I agree with everything STS has done, but it IS their game; I'm not running it.

I think the community could have handled it a bit better (It HAS complained pretty much about EVERY change STS has made to PL, even ones the forums now claim were brilliant ones) but so could STS. Welcome back, Sam (thank goodness)!!

As for the recent per entry incident, I let the event percolate some more and I think it might actually be more egalitarian this year than last year. It's 2 plat this year to get in, get your vanities, see the Winter content whereas it was 10 plat last year. I don't think there were all these synergy aspects or TapJoy last year for free platinum, either. So basically this year, pretty much everyone can see the Winter Festival and get their vanities. Last year, not as much.

Yes, for people who were planning to farm a lot, this year's WF is a bit more difficult and/or expensive, but for the general player, it may actually work out better. For people planning to convert their 10 plat to millions in gold, it's become a bit more expensive than 10 plat probably. For everyone else, I believe it's cheaper; even free.

[Zeus]

I've been thinking more about the recent changes. I am not going to say that I agree with everything STS has done, but it IS their game; I'm not running it.

I think the community could have handled it a bit better (It HAS complained pretty much about EVERY change STS has made to PL, even ones the forums now claim were brilliant ones) but so could STS. Welcome back, Sam (thank goodness)!!

As for the recent per entry incident, I let the event percolate some more and I think it might actually be more egalitarian this year than last year. It's 2 plat this year to get in, get your vanities, see the Winter content whereas it was 10 plat last year. I don't think there were all these synergy aspects or TapJoy last year for free platinum, either. So basically this year, pretty much everyone can see the Winter Festival and get their vanities. Last year, not as much.

Yes, for people who were planning to farm a lot, this year's WF is a bit more difficult and/or expensive, but for the general player, it may actually work out better. For people planning to convert their 10 plat to millions in gold, it's become a bit more expensive than 10 plat probably. For everyone else, I believe it's cheaper; even free.

I wasn't planning to farm a lot, Fyrce. More like, get the items I need for my twink and that's it. In SL, the event has costed me around 200 platinum just on runs. I'm not sure about you, but that's a little over the top. Don't you think? Also, with the drop rates being way less than they were for last year (Only Greens/Pinks), it's just gotten even more expensive. Even after spending 200 platinum, I have still yet to get the gear that I will need for my twinks.

People wouldn't be complaining as much if the drop rates were a lot higher.

[WoundedEagle]

Regarding trash drops and purples, you won't see much emphasis on them going forward. Pocket Legends has a HUGE inventory of items (last count I heard was over 15,000 and closing in on 20,000) already. Our feeling is that we'll save the unique looks for the stuff people actually wear - pinks. Trash drops are just that, trash to sell to a vendor.

Sam, I appreciate your response to everything going on. Maybe it is just me, but even though there is indeed limitations in size and space, I feel as if we are being rushed, along with the design crew rushing. I felt better waiting for months and months just to get Nuri's, as STS seemed more involved and there were more improvements, rather than a focus on new content. And also, may i point out that every Main Spine campaign we have here in Pocket Legends has a nice little town. I feel a heavy lack in community involvement.

I also noticed how bland our Tutorial is. Look at SL's Tutorial; I could learn everything about the game in that. We just don't feel updated as a community. We can guess a new campaign every month, and we even suspect a reused style. It makes me think that there will be a lot of editing in the long-run.

My solution: Have the design team take it's time. Do 4-6 months between campaigns and during that time: Run contest, Improve old campaigns (have you guys taken a look at how awful Dark Forest looks?), and maybe keep us updated and have everything ready for new campaigns, events, holidays, etc. I just feel as if everything's rushed.

One more thing, if you guys are down for ELITE campaigns with crazy cool pinks, so are we. I would rather you guys release an ELITE campaign with another ELITE Vanity for 66. Even if it is another armor.

Revise, Renew, Release.

-we

EDIT:


Yes, for people who were planning to farm a lot, this year's WF is a bit more difficult and/or expensive, but for the general player, it may actually work out better. For people planning to convert their 10 plat to millions in gold, it's become a bit more expensive than 10 plat probably. For everyone else, I believe it's cheaper; even free.

That's why some of us thought of an idea for the minor 2 platinum, one boss kill entry fee. So, we had the idea of a 10-50 unlimited 1 day elixir for us good ole farmers.

One elixir for a brief look. One elixir for heavy farmers.

[Zeus]

Hey Apollo,

Thanks for taking the time to put this post together. I really appreciate it and am always impressed with the effort you put into the community. It shows how much you care for it and why you were chosen as a Guardian of Alterra oh so many months ago. Just fyi, I changed the thread title to remove the "non-biased" from it. You know, there is always a bias :)

Honestly guys, I feel just horrible about the situation. As the guy that Spacetime hired to manage their online communities, I feel like I've let both you, the players and the company that I love, down. You and I both know that without you, our dedicated players, our games wouldn't be what they are I thought I had done the work where I could be out on leave with our new baby and things would be fine. .

When I step back and look at it, the issue is changing a flat fee of content to a turnstile one. Our intent was to make the holiday content more accessible. In looking at last year's event and the Halloween content we wanted to make it easier for people to get into it, hence the change to have a lower up front price (2 Plat now, vs. 10 Plat previously). This content has always been optional for Platinum. It was last year, it is again this year. That doesn't change the you can play the entire rest of the game for free.

For me the biggest issue is when you say you feel a loss of trust with Spacetime over this. In retrospect, I think that we should have done a better job of telling our players that this change was coming and why so that you would always feel informed and cared for. I know that we have a lot of work to do to try and regain that trust.

Thank you for taking the time to give us a proper response. If it was originally handled as well as this, I think a lot of the original drama could have been avoided. As for the [Non-Biased], Yeah you're right. It was a mistake on my part to include that. Should have more so labeled it, "[Both POVs]" or something of retrospect.

I know you guys are a bit more on the secretive side of what goes on behind the scenes, but tell us about it really helps to bring about some security. In short, I think that's what the players need. They want to feel valued, not as a dollar bill. So again, I think you for your response, even though I may disagree about the platinum per instance, this was the response I and many players was looking for.

Cheers,

~Parth

[Silentarrow]

Even though Sam may go and do a stellar job responding community feedback, many things won't change no matter how much we hate them. (e.g.: 100% luck pots) It's a lot more like real life, actually. :)

Oh, how I hate them....

[Deadsoldiers]

I am happy to see that the forumers got a real response, maybe it would be good to announce something like that as a system info like the things with server updates and that animal thing today (where i thought that sts went crazy and mad when i saw it) it would make the things clear and show the people ingame that they are important to the game. Also i just met justg in forest haven and told him that i disliked that they deleted forum posts, his answer was that they are just blocking the threats from people that put a lot of drama and mourning in here and he said that they are still listening to us, i think if sam or someone else works on a short message that concludes sams message and send it as system info it would be good because it could restore a bit of trust. Thats just an idea i had when seeing system info i dont know if its a good idea but i thought that i should throw in that idea. Deadsoldiers

[Fao]

This is amazing! I was thinking just Christmas but 2 days is even better! this is very organized and helpful! I hope the devs take this into mind fully and mindfully.

[Slant]

hmm... was gonna post this in the feedback thread, but maybe it belongs here more

get tons of apps and nothing does IAP as good as Tiny Tower, it got featured in Apple's Game of the Year, and it does IAP very, very well, putting a lot of trust in those who choose to actively support the game, with plenty of scope for twitch premium currency spending...

im sure those who spend a lot of time in the game but choose not to use plat are assets to the game and community, these players should be rewarded regularly too, and there shudnt be enough content to overwhelm them. 10 auction slots, 100 stims each, 1000c, miners elix, all add up to plat users overwhelming the freeloaders, this should have never been the case... and sigh... this is without the new content

[XghostzX]

I'm positive the devs are taking all of this into consideration. Apollo, once again, well stated with all of your following posts. Changes come one step at a time and we must be patient with them.

[Deadsoldiers]

We were patient when threads were locked and ignored, i personaly will stay patient but i hope there are changes coming

[Swords]

U know... I thought sts is all bout makin the fans happy? But this update is the opposite of what we thought their goal was... To appericate an make the fans happy

[Deadsoldiers]

Naah i didnt said it is that bad sts still cares about us like justg and sam said . I think its ok what they did and it will be good when they learned out of it and improve it. I am happy that they even listen to us. I also was angry first but i think we should give feedback not just mourn.

[Duped]

.....When I step back and look at it, the issue is changing a flat fee of content to a turnstile one. Our intent was to make the holiday content more accessible. In looking at last year's event and the Halloween content we wanted to make it easier for people to get into it, hence the change to have a lower up front price (2 Plat now, vs. 10 Plat previously). This content has always been optional for Platinum. It was last year, it is again this year. That doesn't change the you can play the entire rest of the game for free.

For me the biggest issue is when you say you feel a loss of trust with Spacetime over this. In retrospect, I think that we should have done a better job of telling our players that this change was coming and why so that you would always feel informed and cared for. I know that we have a lot of work to do to try and regain that trust.


For point 1. We're trying something new. We appreciate those who took the time to provide constructive criticism. I don't know if we'll keep the for pay access scheme. Obviously there are things about it that can be improved. To reiterate, part of our intent was to lower the barrier of entry for people to get in (2 Plat up front vs. 10) to allow more people to see it.



Here goes....

Sam, first off, there is a reason why you were hired by STS to be their "face". You did what every customer service pro knows to do. Apologize. You didn't agree that STS was wrong for their pricing model, but you did say you were sorry for the loss of trust etc.

I have two problems still (even though I have to admit, your post gave me the hope I've been coming back to the forums to find ever since the update).

1. IF the intention was to make this more accessible, then why was the 2 plat plat per run not introduced along side of the flat fee access? Had STS done this, then you would have won goodwill from the tapjoy users (who apparently can't muster up 10 plat? I guess it's possible). Please forgive my wording, as I'm trying to be kind here, but if there isn't a flat fee pass introduced, then the company line looks like nothing more than an angle to play.

2. The amount of discontent showed forth thus far with no sign of change, only reinforces the feeling that the "there's the door if you don't like it" attitude is in fact real. I finally played it last night, I did one run on each level to get the vanity and to see what I've been looking forward to seeing almost since I started playing PL. It felt wrong to hit "buy" for each "join". I guess if that's the way it is, I'll buy the pinks, but I actually enjoyed PLAYING ever since I started.
I know my friends list isn't all of PL's population. But when 1500 people are online, and 500 total games are being played (from Forest Haven to Father Frost), they have utterly failed in making this "more accessible".

[Justg]

IF the intention was to make this more accessible, then why was the 2 plat plat per run not introduced along side of the flat fee access? Had STS done this, then you would have won goodwill from the tapjoy users (who apparently can't muster up 10 plat? I guess it's possible).

Quite honestly, we didn't think of it.


I know my friends list isn't all of PL's population. But when 1500 people are online, and 500 total games are being played (from Forest Haven to Father Frost), they have utterly failed in making this "more accessible".

This is not true Duped, we had record-high logins this weekend. We're meeting soon to discuss this weekend.

[wvhills]

[QUOTE=Duped;516738]Here goes....

1. IF the intention was to make this more accessible, then why was the 2 plat plat per run not introduced along side of the flat fee access? Had STS done this, then you would have won goodwill from the tapjoy users (who apparently can't muster up 10 plat? I guess it's possible). Please forgive my wording, as I'm trying to be kind here, but if there isn't a flat fee pass introduced, then the company line looks like nothing more than an angle to play.

QUOTE]

In another thread Justg said it was 2 plat and if you want to get in it's really cheap to pop in and grab a few winter items but if you want to do some serious farming it'll cost more and they think it's a good balance. So I'm not really buying the reason if for the turnstiling as being able to make it more accessible. Like you said, if that was the reason it would have remained at 10 plat like the others. The real reason is because they think they can get more plat out of the heavy duty farmers. I guess I'm ok with that.

[CrimsonTider]

This is not true Duped, we had record-high logins this weekend. We're meeting soon to discuss this weekend.

I believe the record log-ins had more to do with 1. New content and 2. It was the weekend. Also, as someone who was new during last years WF and did not participate (due to lack of knowledge), I expected this years event to run a lot like the Halloween event. The only issue people had with the Halloween event was the scaling issues (which have since been adjusted.) I had more plat to spend on vanities and plat packs while having the ability to farm my butt off.

But as others have said, I am relieved to see our voices have been heard and that the weekend has been just as hard on STS as it has been on us. But as the old saying goes (yes I am old):

Actions speak louder than words.

[kallima]

This is not true Duped, we had record-high logins this weekend. We're meeting soon to discuss this weekend.

Thanks for the update! I, for one, will be waiting with bated breath for the patch or the official announcement.

[Rare]

Whatever the case, I'm glad the tone has taken a more positive life.

[Duped]

This is not true Duped, we had record-high logins this weekend. We're meeting soon to discuss this weekend.

I know my friends list is not all of PL :). That fact has nothing to do with the new approach lessening accessibility. Record logins is no less than what I expected. But what of the "logouts" (figuratively I mean, I know we all log out)? Perhaps I should have left the 1500 people online part out? What happened after people log in is that which I'm referencing. We showed up because of all the good credit PL had, but only STS actually knows how successful this event has been. I can only judge from how many people are playing, and from what I've seen, it looks to have far under-performed.


Quite honesty, we didn't think of it

Well, no need to thank me :) I thought of it for you. That's why they pay me the big bucks.

And as to the turnstile approach, it caused me to log in a "click" for the exit on my plat spending. I know I make no difference in the grand business scheme, but if I represent a group (who buy stashable things for plat or campaigns etc), I believe it will make a difference.

Edit: Also, this might be my first ever dev response! I'm excited even if it was from grumpydev! (tongue-in-cheek - I don't know you, but if you didn't laugh at this (JustG), I'll understand if it's edited :P )

[Justg]

I'm excited even if it was from grumpydev! (tongue-in-cheek - I don't know you, but if you didn't laugh at this (JustG), I'll understand if it's edited :P )

It was a rough weekend. I miss Alex :)

[Zeus]

It was a rough weekend. I miss Alex :)

Alex is definitely awesome to have during big updates.

[Ixillicus]

I will say this Sam, at least your responses have actual thought and explanations to some of where STS is coming from. Others just tell us "thank you" and "go elsewhere" and this has rubbed quite a few the wrong way.

Thank you for actually taking TIME to respond.

This certainly rings true for me. I was quite upset about the pay per instance, but thats one thing. When I go on the forums and I see a few of STS' responses that are dismissive or condescending, that is what really upset me. The deleted posts, the lack of acknowledment are kinda infuriating, but the condescension is what really pushed my buttons. It makes us feel like we're not valued. I am glad Sam's back to save the day, because a large number of players have been upset with the situation, but outraged beyond belief by the response.

[Pharcyde]

I'm no game designer or tech expert, but I am still confused as to how PL has reached size limitations.

Could someone explain to me exactly what this means, like does the size limitation = maximum allowable size acceptable by certain phone carriers orr.. just that mobile can't handle the content?

Look at Order and Chaos for example - How on earth have they not hit the mobile data limitation? The level 1-10 area is pretty much bigger then all of Pocket Legends and Star Legends combined.

[mackjack]

@pharcyde:

I think the size limitation has to do with the amount of memory in a typical phone. I don't know about Android phones, but iDevices have 256 ~ 512MB of DRAM, which isn't all that much (your PC has probably at least 2GB of DRAM plus another 1GB or so dedicated DRAM for the GPU vs. 256MB of DRAM that's shared between the CPU/GPU for mobile devices).

So if you have lots of items and lots of textures, and if they won't all fit in the available DRAM at the same time, the game will have to constantly load/unload textures and game data from DRAM as needed, which slows everything down. Of course, one can take the easy way out and simply make sure all game data fits within available DRAM -- you do this by using simple models with fewer polygons, lower resolution textures, fewer textures, minimal sampled speech, etc.

PSP had similar issues (huge load time due to the UMD media, small amounts of DRAM), and game companies had to come up with good means of caching game data and managing their games' memory usage in order to reduce the load time. So, yeah, it's not a new problem; some game engines just do a better job at managing and caching game data than others.

[Moogerfooger]

@pharcyde:

I think the size limitation has to do with the amount of memory in a typical phone. I don't know about Android phones, but iDevices have 256 ~ 512MB of DRAM, which isn't all that much (your PC has probably at least 2GB of DRAM plus another 1GB or so dedicated DRAM for the GPU vs. 256MB of DRAM that's shared between the CPU/GPU for mobile devices).

So if you have lots of items and lots of textures, and if they won't all fit in the available DRAM at the same time, the game will have to constantly load/unload textures and game data from DRAM as needed, which slows everything down. Of course, one can take the easy way out and simply make sure all game data fits within available DRAM -- you do this by using simple models with fewer polygons, lower resolution textures, fewer textures, minimal sampled speech, etc.

PSP had similar issues (huge load time due to the UMD media, small amounts of DRAM), and game companies had to come up with good means of caching game data and managing their games' memory usage in order to reduce the load time. So, yeah, it's not a new problem; some game engines just do a better job at managing and caching game data than others.

I played O&C on my low-DRAM (relatively speaking) iPhone 3GS, and it ran perfectly fine with all options enabled. I don't think it is a memory issue, Sam alluded to something about initialization of the base file. I also could have sworn a dev, and can't remember which one so I won't quote who I think it was, say it might have had something to do with the file size allowed by Apple as a "free" base app, so it may be trying to stay under that limit....was a while ago when I saw that.

[Ghastly]

Well in wizard 101 they have a level raise of 15 and a new map that supports those levels with 8 month blocks between new maps, maybe this could be implemented to STS games, because we will have more time to level and you guys have more time to make quality content.

[mackjack]

@moogerfooger

It may very well be that Apple has a file size limit in iTunes for free apps, but PL doesn't seem to come close to it yet (PL is around 55MB, but some free games are well over 100MB in size). Even if PL has hit the file size limit in iTunes, I wonder what's to prevent PL from downloading additional game data in one of its frequent patches? It's hard to imagine that Apple puts a limit on how much data an app can save/create on the device...

Being in the embedded industry, my company is always concerned about the amount of DRAM that we can work with; so I naturally assumed that this is what STS meant by size limitations. But maybe you're right, it could be something else entirely. Anyway, hope one of the devs will enlighten us as to what kind of ceiling that PL is running up agains.

[Samhayne]

I'll see if Mr. ALS can give us a quick rundown on the size stuff.

[maiohwmai]

I think this is little more than a simple misunderstanding. STS had good intentions. It's asinine to think the dev team TRIED to piss off the community. There were mistakes on both sides.

I think a little more openness would go a long way. I'm not suggesting that the tail should wag the dog, but a lot of this could have been averted had STS informed the community of their pay-for-play plan. It could have been done via some creative advertising and been very successful.

I see nothing wrong with having a choice - X plat per run or Y at for unlimited access. You reach both groups of players that way, and everyone wins.

But the horse has run away...no sense in locking the barn door now.

Thank you STS for a wonderful game I still enjoy.

[zeusabe]

"Do not create threads/posts to “petition” or “lobby” for game features, additions, changes, or other issues. You may post suggestions and/or ideas to the boards, but you may not create a ‘petition’ for others to sign. This is bumping in disguise and will not be allowed. Lobbying is continually bringing up the same topic repeatedly in numerous different threads or as an off-topic post in official threads to get developer attention. This form of posting is not permitted"

This is brilliant, I think you just violated 3 Forum Rules in one thread, couldn't have done it better XD, these three violation are: Bumping (bumping in disguise), petitioning, and cross-posting. Let me see, you directly called out the developers, you used the word "plea" which is synonymous to "petition" (well, according to merriam-webster dictionary), not to mention, these issues have been raised repeatedly in other threads which is cross-posting by STS definition, so put 2 and 2 together...no other way of looking at it. Anyone who's been reading the general discussion in the forums for the past week will more or less know that everything you said has been posted in other threads (or as an off-topic), not only is this lobbying, but this is provoking people once more, I believe the tension has declined already, many have moved on including myself. I wouldn't say ths thread should be locked because it's a violation too, I just want to commend you for a job well done XD. Thank you.

[Otukura]

I know that for about 6-8 months now, it's been sitting right at the point where you don't need Wi-Fi to download it on an android, just 3g. Doesn't seem as though that would be it, however.

[Martin Tander]

Well if pl does gets a sizebuff...it wont be app itself but the "paks" we download while we patch....for example gamelofts o&c has like near gigabyte of sd files u need to download

Cuz obviously not much devices have even 1gb rom memory...well i mean those which go as budget devices:)

All new games work like that...hd games i mean:)

[Pharcyde]

I think I understand....


What would the possibility of having data ran server side? Very expensive so if that was ever introduced, platinum prices would rise to keep up with all the new super expensive servers and storage containment

In O&C - the file is still very large compared to most other apps, but they keep gameplay fast and smooth by not having the data ran through the device, but over the internet through server side. Whenever you enter/leave a zone, all the current DRAM is dumped, and the new data needed for that particular zone is uploaded. It is a good 5-30 second pause, it gets annoying sometimes, but it certainly allows for smoother gameplay overall, and they wouldn't be facing as strict size limitations.

[Zeus]

"Do not create threads/posts to “petition” or “lobby” for game features, additions, changes, or other issues. You may post suggestions and/or ideas to the boards, but you may not create a ‘petition’ for others to sign. This is bumping in disguise and will not be allowed. Lobbying is continually bringing up the same topic repeatedly in numerous different threads or as an off-topic post in official threads to get developer attention. This form of posting is not permitted"

This is brilliant, I think you just violated 3 Forum Rules in one thread, couldn't have done it better XD, these three violation are: Bumping (bumping in disguise), petitioning, and cross-posting. Let me see, you directly called out the developers, you used the word "plea" which is synonymous to "petition" (well, according to merriam-webster dictionary), not to mention, these issues have been raised repeatedly in other threads which is cross-posting by STS definition, so put 2 and 2 together...no other way of looking at it. Anyone who's been reading the general discussion in the forums for the past week will more or less know that everything you said has been posted in other threads (or as an off-topic), not only is this lobbying, but this is provoking people once more, I believe the tension has declined already, many have moved on including myself. I wouldn't say ths thread should be locked because it's a violation too, I just want to commend you for a job well done XD. Thank you.
I'm not sure if you were completely incognizant and just regurgitating the TOS that I already know and am aware of, but you should take notice to the fact that I did state it was a summation/compendium. Oh; also, take notice to the fact that this is the only thread where we got a proper response.

I'm not here to fight with you because it would detract from the purpose of my thread. That and I do not fight one trick ponies. There is more than one move, the jab, in the art of fencing. Also, I just wanted to let you know, I did say I knew I was taking a risk. Life Lesson: Sometimes taking risk can pay off. It's evident in HollyWood, Business and the Stock Market.


Have a nice day.

[mackjack]

@samhayne:

Thanks; would really appreciate a technical explaination.


@pharcyde:

The graphic rendering part have to be done on the local device; there is simply too much traffic over the network if graphics is done on the server side.

I don't think it's the file or database size that's the issue (we all have at least 8GB of FLASH), but rather how to keep in the much smaller DRAM the data that the game currently needs. O&C, based on your description, looks to be loading from FLASH game data for the new zone and not trying to keep everything in DRAM. I don't kow how long a typical O&C game is, but 5 ~ 30 seconds of load time for every PL game is probably too much given that a run is only around 3 ~ 5 minutes...

Since a lot of groups re-run the same map over and over again, it would seem to me that PL can be smarter about caching game data. If you play the same map with the same group, great, no huge load time. If you switch to a different town/map, then PL reloads from FLASH and suffer a bigger load time. Personally, I'd be happy with the occasional increase in load time if we get new and updated models/textures.

Anyway, hope sam or ALS can shed some light on this interesting topic.

[Pharcyde]

"Do not create threads/posts to “petition” or “lobby” for game features, additions, changes, or other issues. You may post suggestions and/or ideas to the boards, but you may not create a ‘petition’ for others to sign. This is bumping in disguise and will not be allowed. Lobbying is continually bringing up the same topic repeatedly in numerous different threads or as an off-topic post in official threads to get developer attention. This form of posting is not permitted"

This is brilliant, I think you just violated 3 Forum Rules in one thread, couldn't have done it better XD, these three violation are: Bumping (bumping in disguise), petitioning, and cross-posting. Let me see, you directly called out the developers, you used the word "plea" which is synonymous to "petition" (well, according to merriam-webster dictionary), not to mention, these issues have been raised repeatedly in other threads which is cross-posting by STS definition, so put 2 and 2 together...no other way of looking at it. Anyone who's been reading the general discussion in the forums for the past week will more or less know that everything you said has been posted in other threads (or as an off-topic), not only is this lobbying, but this is provoking people once more, I believe the tension has declined already, many have moved on including myself. I wouldn't say ths thread should be locked because it's a violation too, I just want to commend you for a job well done XD. Thank you.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS1t4W9hZoSEQnciuklCb4Y-8YCkEX4bsYvgS5DO353W4ZP7AmmpnxhPBwNBA

[WhoIsThis]

your message was well recieved apollo so dont bother bout tha police :)

Indeed. So far among all of the threads and PMs, this has been the only one that has made real accomplishments. I suspect that it's because of Apollo's superior standing and seniority over most of the rest of us.

[Zeus]

Indeed. So far among all of the threads and PMs, this has been the only one that has made real accomplishments. I suspect that it's because of Apollo's superior standing and seniority over most of the rest of us.

Superior standing? Lol, no Attack! I just think it's because all the complaints were put into one thread, here. That way, it was easier to address.

Cheers, bud! :)

[WhoIsThis]

Whatever the reason, maybe even superior timing as Justg didn't go on until Sunday, I'm glad that we have gotten some new information.

We'll see how things go in the next few weeks.

[Samhayne]

"Do not create threads/posts to “petition” or “lobby” for game features, additions, changes, or other issues. You may post suggestions and/or ideas to the boards, but you may not create a ‘petition’ for others to sign. This is bumping in disguise and will not be allowed. Lobbying is continually bringing up the same topic repeatedly in numerous different threads or as an off-topic post in official threads to get developer attention. This form of posting is not permitted"

This is brilliant, I think you just violated 3 Forum Rules in one thread, couldn't have done it better XD, these three violation are: Bumping (bumping in disguise), petitioning, and cross-posting. Let me see, you directly called out the developers, you used the word "plea" which is synonymous to "petition" (well, according to merriam-webster dictionary), not to mention, these issues have been raised repeatedly in other threads which is cross-posting by STS definition, so put 2 and 2 together...no other way of looking at it. Anyone who's been reading the general discussion in the forums for the past week will more or less know that everything you said has been posted in other threads (or as an off-topic), not only is this lobbying, but this is provoking people once more, I believe the tension has declined already, many have moved on including myself. I wouldn't say ths thread should be locked because it's a violation too, I just want to commend you for a job well done XD. Thank you.


Hey Zeusabe,

Rather than posting that someone is "breaking the rules" please use the Report Post button to let the Community Team aware of your feelings that a post is breaking the rules. That way, we don't get into flame fests with users policing other users and derail threads over such discussion.

[MoarPewPew]

Hey Zeusabe,

Rather than posting that someone is "breaking the rules" please use the Report Post button to let the Community Team aware of your feelings that a post is breaking the rules. That way, we don't get into flame fests with users policing other users and derail threads over such discussion.

Ownage

[Otukura]

Am I the only one who too Z's post as a joke? :O

[Samhayne]

Am I the only one who too Z's post as a joke? :O

That's the thing with text, there is no body language or inflection to go along with it. So, without such, how would you know if someone was joking or not. If it really was a joke post, then include some joking text and some :) or :D. Otherwise, the only thing you'll get from me is a warning to not play forum police. The forums are srs bznz!

[Redbridge]

Hey Zeusabe,

Rather than posting that someone is "breaking the rules" please use the Report Post button to let the Community Team aware of your feelings that a post is breaking the rules. That way, we don't get into flame fests with users policing other users and derail threads over such discussion.

Has needed clarifying by STS for a while.... (aimed @ the community NOT the individual rightly corrected this time)

[Aikiebo]

I don't agree with a couple of your conclusions a much as others, but I'm glad you're willing to try to look at the issue from both perspectives. Thats why you're a star player, Apollo.

Haha, I didn't expect everybody to agree with it. :) Even when you try to be unbiased, it's still biased, Bahahaha.

Feel free to post your perspective, or PM me. I'm good either way. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion! :)

Apollo, as others have said this is a great post. And as Gaddy has said, I appreciate you taking the time to try to consider both PoVs.

In this post, I am not speaking directly to anyone. Just giving my thoughts on a few subjects.

Imo, the "turnstyle" approach to holiday content, doesn't need to be changed for any reason. For people who just want the vanities, they can get both for 2 plat.

For farmers/merchants who are hoping to make large sums of coin, They can still do as much farming as they want, control drop level percisely and not have to pay for more access then they are able to play. In business, it takes money to make money. To receive profit, you have to invest first.

For farmers, one of the problems with an unlimited pass would be that people who invested just a small amount of plat could reap the same rewards as those who invested large amount of plat.

Some players want to be collectors and keep their items and not really re-sell too many. Being a collector takes money. Most collectors end up spending huge sums on their hobby.

Just because I can't afford to collect vintage comic books doesn't mean that I am going to go on and on RAGING against Ebay. I'm not going to threaten to stop bidding just cause I can't afford to buy everything that I want.

If I can't afford to buy all the content that is available, that is not STS's fault. If I want to start collecting vintage comic books, I need a better job, lol. It is no one's fault.

It was OBVIOUSLY ineveitable that STS was going to have to focus on increasing their revenue. Code don't write itself! Honestly, some have been sounding like elderly people. Whom I love very much btw. But, if you ever mention that you just spent $4 on a loaf of bread, WOW, that will get them started! Lol Talking about how prices used to be cheaper.

And the idea that in order to keep EVERYONE happy, every item that we can buy has to have several different levels, (e.g. 2 plat per boss, a two-hour pass, a unlimited pass), is fine if STS feels a need to do something like that. But, if people were really loyal they would place less demands and be more understanding.

The plat per-boss thing, really seems like a compromise that should make everyone happy.

If STS "raises prices" they are doing it because:

1. They have to.
2. They can. Meaning, obviously they have the customer base to do so. Does anyone think that the 100 or so active "vetrans" are going to be able to pay all the bills?
3. It is their job to do what is best for the company. They have to. You would too or you would not last long in a company you were working for.

The entire game can be played for free, except for optional content that does not impact the core.

All this drama can be boiled down to three things:

1. Some players want different content. For w/e reason they seem dissatisfied with this great game. People have used words such as fresh, epic, creative, etc.

2. Some players want lower prices on plat buyable stuff and/or less options for plat buyers.

3. Some players are all mad because they don't believe STS is listening.

How on earth does anyone think that the content is going to change if the amount of revenue doesn't? You can't have one without the other.

And as far as drama problem nunber 3, I'll post my thoughts on that on a different post.

[OvigorothO]

Well thought out :) dont know u on a personnal basis but i realize u are among the PL greats even the devs should have a pictre of who u r by now. Im sure they will carefully examine your thread

[OvigorothO]

The devs knowing who you are would not risk banning you knowing your followers,friends, and evryone supporting the cause would leave too which would be detremental to the amount of money coming in for them

[Jtpup74799]

lol i just got the candy cane gun from Ed Neezer

[lionblaze149]

I feel great that sam is responding to all of this criticism, but notice how no other devs are, besides a few posts by justg. I question whose idea it was in the first place to charge so much for the winter festival.

[WhoIsThis]

I feel great that sam is responding to all of this criticism, but notice how no other devs are, besides a few posts by justg. I question whose idea it was in the first place to charge so much for the winter festival.

My guess is that they are on Christmas break. 2012 will be a decisive year for PL though ... so we shall see.