Do you want Guild LB to continue?

[Genius]

I understand that guilds are suppose to be a place for people to hangout, make friends and be part of a family that do things together; a place where people help each other to accomplish their goals. So what is the point of a LB?

IMHO removing the guild lb will also reduce the unhealthy activities associated with it like (CTF/TDM Flag/Kill farming, PVE Kill farming, leveling dummy accounts for activity and aps.. etc). This will also change the perspective of players, they will finally see the quality of the player instead of numbers and ratios when recruiting.

What do you think? Do we need Guild LB? If yes, why? If no, why not? Please keep the discussion civil. Thank you.

[Flamesofanger]

181896

11/howtokillthegame101

[Dalmony]

I agree in part - it doesn't encourage a healthy acceptance of new players because of restricted entry. It also creates in guild tension and pressure to make certain rules. Removing the guild lb would be fine by me - it doesn't mean a lot these days anyway!

Just a side note though - a lot of guilds restrict entry by PVE kills also because they are trying to remain exclusive to dedicated players with a certain amount of game experience and know how. This is to ensure that guild runs are quality for the members, rather than carrying weaker players who plat boosted a week ago and have no idea how the game works.

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[Silentkill]

Yes. Q

[Motherless_Child]

i understand that guilds are suppose to be a place for people to hangout, make friends and be part of a family that do things together; a place where people help each other to accomplish their goals. So what is the point of a lb?

Imho removing the guild lb will also reduce the unhealthy activities associated with it like (ctf/tdm flag/kill farming, pve kill farming, leveling dummy accounts for activity and aps.. Etc). This will also change the perspective of players, they will finally see the quality of the player instead of numbers and ratios when recruiting.

What do you think? Do we need guild lb? If yes, why? If no, why not? please keep the discussion civil. Thank you.

181897.............................. Lol...............

[InsanitrisesAL]

I'm a guild master myself , as stated above the restrictions are part of what makes guilds great , otherwise it will be full of new accounts, if your account is not up to par you shouldn't be applying for a leaderboard guild , my input

[Genius]

Yes. Q

Ok, why? (I dint understand what Q means sorry)

[Genius]

Just a side note though - a lot of guilds restrict entry by PVE kills also because they are trying to remain exclusive to dedicated players with a certain amount of game experience and know how. This is to ensure that guild runs are quality for the members, rather than carrying weaker players who plat boosted a week ago and have no idea how the game works.

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This is true, but let me add to this that every player in every mmo is once new and get carried by his fellows, a guild is a concept derived from and for that, denying to acknowledge it is a failiure of a GM and a guild. Filling the guilds with the accomplished players only makes it inactive and boring.


I'm a guild master myself , as stated above the restrictions are part of what makes guilds great , otherwise it will be full of new accounts, if your account is not up to par you shouldn't be applying for a leaderboard guild , my input

Let me tell you the restrictions you are talking about are pure numbers and not skills. These restrictions are not self decided but followed because GMs want their guilds on LB. I can show you players who are old, on LB, and still dont know how to play their class. (JS).

The question of the thread isnt what accounts should be applying, the questions is why you need Guild LB?

[Axel_crx]

I understand that guilds are suppose to be a place for people to hangout, make friends and be part of a family that do things together; a place where people help each other to accomplish their goals. So what is the point of a LB?

IMHO removing the guild lb will also reduce the unhealthy activities associated with it like (CTF/TDM Flag/Kill farming, PVE Kill farming, leveling dummy accounts for activity and aps.. etc). This will also change the perspective of players, they will finally see the quality of the player instead of numbers and ratios when recruiting.

What do you think? Do we need Guild LB? If yes, why? If no, why not? Please keep the discussion civil. Thank you.How about just leave it how it is

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[Genius]

How about just leave it how it is

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Why? Please support your answer with an argument.

[Overgrown]

Restrictions filters the disciplined and pro to the newbies, imagine what a stress of always being begged for gold and help, just leave alone the LB

[Dalmony]

This is true, but let me add to this that every player in every mmo is once new and get carried by his fellows, a guild is a concept derived from and for that, denying to acknowledge it is a failiure of a GM and a guild. Filling the guilds with the accomplished players only makes it inactive and boring.

I get what you're saying believe me but I wouldn't say it's a failing of the GM at all - more a failing of the game population as a whole - or the Devs who haven't made a clear path for new players to get them up to speed to end game.

"Pro" players in guilds tend to be quieter (because focused on runs/party) and they will also leave or stay in a guild based on the quality of parties and advice they can get there. Farmers want the confidence to be able to say "2s Maus 6" and know two things:

1. People will reply

2. They won't get someone joining the party who us using deary, no ankh, is not appropriately geared, or and has no idea how the map works.

If you want to have a serious pve farming guild then the above two points needs to hold or people won't stay and then you don't have a farming guild you have a social guild (which is fine but not every has to want this).

The minority who don't mind slower runs and are pretty chill about constantly teaching people won't look for a guild with no requirements and will end up in a more social guild. But they'll be the only pro there and will have sacrifices the ability to put together a quality guild farming party with any regularity.

My point is really that it's not a failing if a GM want a to make a certain type of guild and entry is restricted to ensure that. Would you join a PVP guild where when you said J, nobody ever came? Or where the people join but are consistently bad PVPers?

To your point about everyone having been new once - there are a lot of veteran players like myself who haven't been new or carried they started in either arcanum, Kraken, or Nordr era. If you started then you were never really "carried" or "struggled" because the entire population was new and everyone was figuring it out together.

There is a general tolerance for new and inexperienced players because they hinder runs and slow efficiency (including the time taken to explain simple things repeatedly in gc). It's not "right" but it's the facts and tbh you have more chance of changing the majority populations viewpoint on new players than you do of getting a thought provoking discussion on these forums instead of people just posting memes [emoji23]

TL:DR
GMs do what they can to keep their guildies happy and the guild functioning to it's purpose.
That's nothing to do with a guild lb however - that serves no purposes but people's ego. It's just that removing it won't, imho, remove these barriers for new players.


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[BaronB]

I get what you're saying believe me but I wouldn't say it's a failing of the GM at all - more a failing of the game population as a whole - or the Devs who haven't made a clear path for new players to get them up to speed to end game.

"Pro" players in guilds tend to be quieter (because focused on runs/party) and they will also leave or stay in a guild based on the quality of parties and advice they can get there. Farmers want the confidence to be able to say "2s Maus 6" and know two things:

1. People will reply

2. They won't get someone joining the party who us using deary, no ankh, is not appropriately geared, or and has no idea how the map works.

If you want to have a serious pve farming guild then the above two points needs to hold or people won't stay and then you don't have a farming guild you have a social guild (which is fine but not every has to want this).

The minority who don't mind slower runs and are pretty chill about constantly teaching people won't look for a guild with no requirements and will end up in a more social guild. But they'll be the only pro there and will have sacrifices the ability to put together a quality guild farming party with any regularity.

My point is really that it's not a failing if a GM want a to make a certain type of guild and entry is restricted to ensure that. Would you join a PVP guild where when you said J, nobody ever came? Or where the people join but are consistently bad PVPers?

To your point about everyone having been new once - there are a lot of veteran players like myself who haven't been new or carried they started in either arcanum, Kraken, or Nordr era. If you started then you were never really "carried" or "struggled" because the entire population was new and everyone was figuring it out together.

There is a general tolerance for new and inexperienced players because they hinder runs and slow efficiency (including the time taken to explain simple things repeatedly in gc). It's not "right" but it's the facts and tbh you have more chance of changing the majority populations viewpoint on new players than you do of getting a thought provoking discussion on these forums instead of people just posting memes [emoji23]

TL:DR
GMs do what they can to keep their guildies happy and the guild functioning to it's purpose.
That's nothing to do with a guild lb however - that serves no purposes but people's ego. It's just that removing it won't, imho, remove these barriers for new players.


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That’s close enough to being bang on


1<3


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[Genius]

Restrictions filters the disciplined and pro to the newbies, imagine what a stress of always being begged for gold and help, just leave alone the LB

Having restrictions or recruitment policies on what kind of players you like to recruit has nothing to do with Guild LB, it has to do with what kind of guild you like to make. Also you are implying that all newbies beg for gold, which is not true.


I get what you're saying...
"Pro"....
....But they'll be the only pro there and will have sacrifices the ability to put together a quality guild farming party with any regularity.

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I know people being carried since the start of the game irrespective of which level cap and there are many threads on this forum to prove it. Understand carry doesn't only mean a old player helping a new player run a map, carry can be helping a non/under geared player to get the Timed run, helping a high latency player get arena LB or carrying a mages to Temple LB.

Also, "Pro" in a game is defined by the knowledge and ability of a player to play their class, "numbers" can help but they arent benchmark. It only takes a week to get 20k APs and 100k kills, which are the kind of players top guilds recruit, would you call them Pro? Similarly I (and I am sure you as well) know many warriors who been playing for 6 years but still don't know what Taunt means and how aggro works, what should we call them? I chose to ignore most of this because AL is a casual game



My point is really that it's not a failing if a GM want a to make a certain type of guild and entry is restricted to ensure that. Would you join a PVP guild where when you said J, nobody ever came? Or where the people join but are consistently bad PVPers?

What you are saying happens in a guild where people are recruited based on numbers.

On the other hand Purge (Guild) is a good example of what happens when a GM wants to make a PvP guild with restricted entry (without thinking of LB) where most who joins like to PvP do go to PvP when someone says J. So you see even in the current game there are exceptions, people who are making the right kind of guilds.

Sure its a fail of a system but the above example means its a fail of a GM as well.



GMs do what they can to keep their guildies happy and the guild functioning to it's purpose.
That's nothing to do with a guild lb however - that serves no purposes but people's ego. It's just that removing it won't, imho, remove these barriers for new players.


Well, we will only know if change is good or bad once we have it. I agree, remove it, let new players have a new and good start.

(Wanted to +Rep for taking time to write such a long post but its saying I cant again. Ty.)

[Switchback]

Guild LB's are absolutely good for AL, although most will say they are pretty useless to determine whos "the best guild"(i agree). Competition sparks passion, which will drive you to accomplish your goals. Having a common goal with a group of people, large or small, is the essence of mmorpgs and guilds :-).

The LB isnt going anywhere.

[BaronB]

Simply the reason for any leaderboards realistically is simply a form of “showing off”.

Be it player ones or guild ones

Guild leaderboards of course one of the easiest to achieve and for some people that will be there main achievement because they won’t be able to get onto any other leaderboards (heck even myself included as I sure as hell don’t have the patience or skill to be a lb runner)

Now weighing out if it’s needed at all...

For new starters I think they are great, end of the day if you and a couple friends decide to make s guild and even just want to appear in the top 50 your going to have to learn to get a little better.. won’t be as much as making it to player lbs however you and your friends will have to learn to improve and will have to learn to be more social with others as well.

You take that away you won’t have much of a reason to really to push for improving maybe let alone making a guild, why? End of the day we all enjoy and like the bit of recognition and attention it can bring(not excluding the rare few who do like just grinding because they find it fun).


I think the problems start to arise as you move up within the leaderboards and you start getting too greedy and egos get inflated too much. They start thinking they better than others, make more exclusions for people joining and only expect and want the “pro” player mentality because primary goal ends up being keep guild top leaderboard.

Unfortunately people forget to stay humble and become elitist which then has too many egos clashing and why a lot of those kinds of guilds start breaking apart from within.


It’s all a matter of balance if you want harmony. Nothing wrong with guild leaderboards and most of the toxicity and dramas you’ll usually find the higher up the ranks you go.. not the case every time as if some of those guilds didn’t find the right balance a lot of them would have been disbanded along time ago.

Leaderboards arnt essential but great way to get a group of people to aim towards a collective goal to improve themselves. After that would fall down to core members of the guild which direction it takes, its healthy however as mentioned to bring in new people as stops not only being boring but it can help keep people humble and remind them of they’re own roots... but too many and not enough and you’ll feel like your carrying players and not actually growing yourself..


For the sake of argument tho because of a bit of dramas created usually by the “top 10” listed guilds.. we are almost forgetting there is another 40 guilds that make up that entire leaderboard.


Keep leaderboards and just learn to stay classy and humble



1<3





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[Susanne]

Simply the reason for any leaderboards realistically is simply a form of “showing off”.

Be it player ones or guild ones

Guild leaderboards of course one of the easiest to achieve and for some people that will be there main achievement because they won’t be able to get onto any other leaderboards (heck even myself included as I sure as hell don’t have the patience or skill to be a lb runner)

Now weighing out if it’s needed at all...

For new starters I think they are great, end of the day if you and a couple friends decide to make s guild and even just want to appear in the top 50 your going to have to learn to get a little better.. won’t be as much as making it to player lbs however you and your friends will have to learn to improve and will have to learn to be more social with others as well.

You take that away you won’t have much of a reason to really to push for improving maybe let alone making a guild, why? End of the day we all enjoy and like the bit of recognition and attention it can bring(not excluding the rare few who do like just grinding because they find it fun).


I think the problems start to arise as you move up within the leaderboards and you start getting too greedy and egos get inflated too much. They start thinking they better than others, make more exclusions for people joining and only expect and want the “pro” player mentality because primary goal ends up being keep guild top leaderboard.

Unfortunately people forget to stay humble and become elitist which then has too many egos clashing and why a lot of those kinds of guilds start breaking apart from within.


It’s all a matter of balance if you want harmony. Nothing wrong with guild leaderboards and most of the toxicity and dramas you’ll usually find the higher up the ranks you go.. not the case every time as if some of those guilds didn’t find the right balance a lot of them would have been disbanded along time ago.

Leaderboards arnt essential but great way to get a group of people to aim towards a collective goal to improve themselves. After that would fall down to core members of the guild which direction it takes, its healthy however as mentioned to bring in new people as stops not only being boring but it can help keep people humble and remind them of they’re own roots... but too many and not enough and you’ll feel like your carrying players and not actually growing yourself..


For the sake of argument tho because of a bit of dramas created usually by the “top 10” listed guilds.. we are almost forgetting there is another 40 guilds that make up that entire leaderboard.


Keep leaderboards and just learn to stay classy and humble



1<3





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I did get fed up with all the drama of the guild leaderboards the other day and suggested they may be not necessary and abolish them.
After reading your post it brought back memories of when I belonged to a special guild that was humble and classy. Although we didn't strive to be on the leaderboard, we did get there and when it was noticed and announced, the feeling of pride was great.
We kept there, sometimes dropped down but there was no shame in that and we even forgot to check the lb most weeks.
Yes..keep them, even if it's just for the memories of someone posting in guildchat, " Hey, check the lb, we went up 2 places, wow". All of us dashing to the lb..oh dear.. I made myself cry..I want our guild back so much 😢

[Tuhguhbuhbuh]

My alt got kicked out of another guild because they started to chase numbers. Pillocks! Hope they never reach guild lb.

[Chronox]

What's a leaderboards guild? People still care about them? Oof

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[slaaayerrr]

i just wondering (not really) is it truth that some weird things still affecting guild's ranking like:
- average account age
- founding date
- 1-30d active
if yes - that LB is just bs lol

[BaronB]

i just wondering (not really) is it truth that some weird things still affecting guild's ranking like:
- average account age
- founding date
- 1-30d active
if yes - that LB is just bs lol

Yes to the average account and 1-30d active and no to the founding date..


Average account age is there so you don’t have JUST new accounts in a guild where no one would be able to guide them (the blind leading the blind)

And 1-30d active is a good tracker of how frequently people are online.. even during down times in games if you have a guild that’s socially active with players and their enjoying themselves with others than this will always be a decent rank.. good indicator of your becoming a little stagnant...


If these two particular factors is what contributes to “lb is just bs”.. I would love to hear as to why you came to that conclusion [emoji3166]



1 <3


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[Willl]

I would start saying that guild lb can stay or not and in both cases will be fine to me,


Remember guys people keep leaving game as long as a kind of leaderboard has been deleted by OUR complain..yes none cares about lb guilds..but year after year all leaderbords are disappearing and less and less players keep playing, why? Cause there will be always someone disappointed enough to quit.
Lb is a competition, and I assure you any kind of competition is the motivation why some players are still playing.

I saw many comments about how lb guilds brings toxicity, or how in some cases upper the spot it is and higher is the toxicity or how lb doesnt allow the entrance of new players in those old guilds, well let me say my opinion about those points,

- Yes leaderbord brings toxicity, but not always and not for everyone, it depends how it is managed and who are the people caring for it, in this game there are kids that makes drama even for a joke..drama people will always find a reason to make drama on everything, or to show off, or to trashtalk..for everything (so what, next will be let's mute showoff kids? lets delete chat in towns?)
- Yes in some cases the toxicity goes higher as higher is the spot..but this depends always on the nature of how the guild is managed and how seriously GM's takes this game or this "competition"
- about the guild requirements that does not allow the entrance of new players I definitely can't agree: supposing there will not be anymore leaderbord guilds (so I could delete the billions of requirements needed to join my guild), to be sure to preserve the high quality of players I would put again like back in 46 cap the testing players with gears, builds, playstyle runs to be sure no newbies could enter and ruin guild parties with their unexperience. (I actually think this is even better than stick to actual guild requirements).

I didn't want to bump this thread..but who is asking to delete should think that this way everyone will ask to delete a leaderbord cause all lb brings drama.

Good luck!

[Dalmony]

IMHO removing the guild lb will also reduce the unhealthy activities associated with it like (CTF/TDM Flag/Kill farming, PVE Kill farming, leveling dummy accounts for activity and aps.. etc). This will also change the perspective of players, they will finally see the quality of the player instead of numbers and ratios when recruiting.

Mine and others arguments are still relevant to the discussion because of the above, which is what you've cited as your reason for removing guild lb - that removing it will change the perspectives of players.

I guess my point of view is that the "perspective of players" you describe is totally unrelated to lb, more to do with each player (and therefore guild) having their own individual goals that don't involve slowing ones progress to continuously help & teach others. (Personally I'm okay with doing it but I get that for most its not their cup of tea).

This is entertainment and not everyone's definition of that is teaching other new players; that should be incorporated by the game designers... to teach, entice and lead new players towards sticking with and mastering the game through adequacy, reward, progression, and provision of just enough resources to lead a new player up to end game.

Guild leaderboard isn't causing that harm you've described. There is a problem with player segregation yes..... But I don't think it's related to guild lb at all.

All nostalgia & optimism aside... efforts by devs into improving how new players are taught and how they progress is the more useful thing route to go here.

Removing guild lb, in my opinion, would probs just go unnoticed by the majority of players and would be missing the mark.



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[Stephencobear]

Trying to be short-
@ 1st I said “ most of us think lb are a joke”, & may have agreed to op right off, but for me it’s not just the guild lb that is the problem, it’s aps in general lately.

1: pvp is inactive (I resist the phrase dead)
2: class imbalance. Recently Cinco said if a smurf wants a fair fight it should only fight smurfs >.<
Both of those present a hurdle to new players wanting to join a good guild and compete if they have to sweat aps.
3: there is the situation that some ppl who have certain aps have either botted them, or dummy farmed said aps, and got away with not being banned for several reasons.
4: some acc have been black market bought & have those apps, or sold the gear to get say a timed position.
5: some aps can be gained with plat

That said I do appreciate that some make the point that competitiveness drives many & shouldn’t be eliminated, I think aps might currently exclude or hinder the new players I wish would be joining.
Also I agree a guild should have any restrictions they want, but that there is the “prize” of a lb, I don’t think is a good representation of what good players are together rn.

TLDR: simply only removing guild lb isn’t solving much given the system isn’t representing real hard working skilled players.

[BaronB]

Trying to be short-
@ 1st I said “ most of us think lb are a joke”, & may have agreed to op right off, but for me it’s not just the guild lb that is the problem, it’s aps in general lately.

1: pvp is inactive (I resist the phrase dead)
2: class imbalance. Recently Cinco said if a smurf wants a fair fight it should only fight smurfs >.<
Both of those present a hurdle to new players wanting to join a good guild and compete if they have to sweat aps.
3: there is the situation that some ppl who have certain aps have either botted them, or dummy farmed said aps, and got away with not being banned for several reasons.
4: some acc have been black market bought & have those apps, or sold the gear to get say a timed position.
5: some aps can be gained with plat

That said I do appreciate that some make the point that competitiveness drives many & shouldn’t be eliminated, I think aps might currently exclude or hinder the new players I wish would be joining.
Also I agree a guild should have any restrictions they want, but that there is the “prize” of a lb, I don’t think is a good representation of what good players are together rn.

TLDR: simply only removing guild lb isn’t solving much given the system isn’t representing real hard working skilled players.


Just to keep this short and sweet,

If the concept of gaining achievement points didn’t work, it wouldn’t be implemented as broadly across games as it currently is.. think about those Xbox achievements or PS trophies..

1<3


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[Soyeonara]

Guys, is it necessary to discuss this matter? I think there r more important things to improve something else in AL, you guys should put your idea on that.

[Genius]

Guys, is it necessary to discuss this matter?
Yes, people who commented on this thread and I did find it necessary, or why would we spend our time on a rational discussion?


I think there r more important things to improve something else in AL, you guys should put your idea on that.
I am sure there will always be more important things to discuss, but your statement is vague, kindly be explicit what topic that is important and is currently not under discussion on this forum?

[Soyeonara]

Surely you should put idea on improving the expansion. Leave the Guild LB as it, and this matter was bringing up from previous thread (major factor for this question rise in this thread) which also from my perspective is it unnecessary.

I would want also to see the improvement and idea for another thing like gears for example. That would be great and Im sure I will try to suggest some option to upgrade that.

Moreover, it is nice to argument this matter, but for me this is not right time to discuss this.

[Genius]

Surely you should put idea on improving the expansion.

I would, as soon I get some confidence on the devs that they are implementing those ideas, I am yet to see the improvements that Cinco promised will come in the interest of Level 76 expansion months back.

I think its too soon to judge him and call him a liar, so I will wait few weeks before delivering my complete point of view on the current affairs.

[Genius]

So, the general vibe I am getting from this thread is that Guild LB should stay for the sake of competition, but at the same time people feel that the system needs to change in order for the change in perspective of the players. This means parameters on the Guild LB needs to be changed, things that will still keep the guild LB competitive without putting a restriction of "numbers" for recruitment?

My 2 cents will be to remove PVE K/D from the Guild LB. This will atleast reduce the pressure from the players for meeting a specified number of kills to join their "favorite" guild. I am sure no player enjoys spending time in hauntlet just to join a guild (now that its not even a part of player LB).

What other parameters can be changed to make things better? - open forum (but I am looking at the senior members).

[Willl]

So, the general vibe I am getting from this thread is that Guild LB should stay for the sake of competition, but at the same time people feel that the system needs to change in order for the change in perspective of the players. This means parameters on the Guild LB needs to be changed, things that will still keep the guild LB competitive without putting a restriction of "numbers" for recruitment?

My 2 cents will be to remove PVE K/D from the Guild LB. This will atleast reduce the pressure from the players for meeting a specified number of kills to join their "favorite" guild. I am sure no player enjoys spending time in hauntlet just to join a guild (now that its not even a part of player LB).

What other parameters can be changed to make things better? - open forum (but I am looking at the senior members).

Nothing should be changed you know why? Cause every reply players will give..it will be to benefit their own situation.
So I say just stop assume what should be changed cause it will end just deleting the entire lb as it happened with pve kills tiebreaker..pve kills..pvp kills..flags..and everything.
Lets continue this topic so they get tired and delete this too.

[Willl]

A part of the comminity use forums to delete/ruin eachother and not to improve game, and i think this is an useless topic to take care of. We have an expansion 20 people are running and here we discuss how to ruin another leaderbord.
Idk..you have so much free time I guess.

[BaronB]

Nothing should be changed you know why? Cause every reply players will give..it will be to benefit their own situation.
So I say just stop assume what should be changed cause it will end just deleting the entire lb as it happened with pve kills tiebreaker..pve kills..pvp kills..flags..and everything.
Lets continue this topic so they get tired and delete this too.

Pretty spot on,


The system itself isn’t broken or needs changing.. if you want guilds to be fairer like mentioned above then it’s the people who need to change not the system


1<3

[Overgrown]

So, the general vibe I am getting from this thread is that Guild LB should stay for the sake of competition, but at the same time people feel that the system needs to change in order for the change in perspective of the players. This means parameters on the Guild LB needs to be changed, things that will still keep the guild LB competitive without putting a restriction of "numbers" for recruitment?

My 2 cents will be to remove PVE K/D from the Guild LB. This will atleast reduce the pressure from the players for meeting a specified number of kills to join their "favorite" guild. I am sure no player enjoys spending time in hauntlet just to join a guild (now that its not even a part of player LB).

What other parameters can be changed to make things better? - open forum (but I am looking at the senior members).These "favorite" guilds worked hard to be a "favorite". Why change the system, the system flows seamlessly (guild LB)

I guess its time for you to change yourself first on how to look at things better, and stop using the masses for your own interests. If you want to cater the nabbies, create a guild of your own that will be a nabbies "favorite" and babysit them all. Thanks, close this thread. :)

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[Allset]

It’s one of the first things the game wants us to see is the lb. Guilds is the first category you see when you look at the lb. So trust me when I tell you we all see it at some time or another...

I have played other games that didn’t have a lb system & it created way more drama because of it. Now that I think about it this game keeps excellent records compared to others games I’ve played. And that’s what I like about it. So when I see the lb I know who is who & what is what. No explanation needed. You can talk all you want. But once you’re on the lb that is AL history. XD


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[Fiasaria]

the guild lb keep people playing, make them willing to do those boring elite kills aps. obviously those just happen during dead weeks

[Genius]

Nothing should be changed you know why? Cause every reply players will give..it will be to benefit their own situation.
So I say just stop assume what should be changed cause it will end just deleting the entire lb as it happened with pve kills tiebreaker..pve kills..pvp kills..flags..and everything.

No one is assuming here. Its a fact that majority of the players wont like to farm PVE kills if it isn't for guilds recruitment requirement. Similarly someone stated founding date should not be there as a parameter. Sure people will have different opinion, whats wrong in that?
+ I am happy with the changes of Player LB, the tie still happens but at the last spot. Remember Its a change, not delete or ruin. More good happened because of it than bad.



Lets continue this topic so they get tired and delete this too.
I don't think that's how things work here.



A part of the comminity use forums to delete/ruin each other and not to improve game, and i think this is an useless topic to take care of. We have an expansion 20 people are running and here we discuss how to ruin another leaderbord.

That is your personal perception, If you are pointing this thread to be a de-constructive agenda then you are wrong, perhaps you are only limited to think as a GM, but my perception involves the overall mood of the common.
Also, there is already a expansion discussion going on the forum, If you like to discuss it then you should be commenting on that thread. Commenting about other topics here will serve no good.

[Genius]

These "favorite" guilds worked hard to be a "favorite". Why change the system, the system flows seamlessly (guild LB)
I guess its time for you to change yourself first on how to look at things better, and stop using the masses for your own interests. If you want to cater the nabbies, create a guild of your own that will be a nabbies "favorite" and babysit them all. Thanks, close this thread. :)

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This post is a fallacy. You need take a break, perhaps have some tea, learn about things that goes around you and get a better perspective on life. May be then we can have a rational conversation (may be). I will ignore the future comments from you if they are going to be drafted the same way.

[Genius]

It’s one of the first things the game wants us to see is the lb. Guilds is the first category you see when you look at the lb. So trust me when I tell you we all see it at some time or another...

I have played other games that didn’t have a lb system & it created way more drama because of it. Now that I think about it this game keeps excellent records compared to others games I’ve played. And that’s what I like about it. So when I see the lb I know who is who & what is what. No explanation needed. You can talk all you want. But once you’re on the lb that is AL history. XD


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I honor your personal opinion, but I play MMOs created by some of the big studios and they dont have a LB system and things are just fine there. LB system has nothing to do with drama. Anyway, if you read my last followup post I recognized the point many mentions here that Guild LB is required for competition, but at the same time the posts on this thread suggest that to change the perception required the change in system because as pointed out by other the system created the perception.

So the question is what kind of parameter changes are required.

[Genius]

Pretty spot on,


The system itself isn’t broken or needs changing.. if you want guilds to be fairer like mentioned above then it’s the people who need to change not the system


1<3

I think its been mentioned by many that its the parameters of the Guild LB that drives the Guilds to have a "number" requirement. Which is why the blame is on system. If you think the system does not require a change then what do you suggest?
My question to you is: How would you make people change their perception given the current scenario?

[Willl]

No one is assuming here. Its a fact that majority of the players wont like to farm PVE kills if it isn't for guilds recruitment requirement. Similarly someone stated founding date should not be there as a parameter. You are saying people shouldn't voice their concern because it will affect your agenda, let me guess you are a GM of one of the top 5 Guilds. Arent you?


I don't think that's how things work here.



That is your personal perception, you are only thinking as a GM, but my perception involves the overall mood of the common.
Also, there is already a discussion going on the forum, If you like to discuss it then you should be commenting on that thread. Commenting about other topics here will serve no good.

There is no majority of people here who said its right to delete pve kills from lb guild rank or that lb rank system should be changed. That was what me and many others are talking about.


Also I must correct you even on the quantity of players that wanna farm pve kills, I see and appreciate players who farm 150k pve kills to be able to join my guild or friends and guildies who try reach 1m pve kills causenthey like read 1000000 kils..they do and work on it, daily

No need a "genious" to know who I am, its written with capital letter.
Underline who I am as you did looks like you re saying im giving a reply to give support to my own interests, but, if you pay attention to my first post you will notice I dont do that, and all could notice it (in case that s what u were assuming, correct if im wrong).

Some are still able to give own opinion separating it by own interests for game benefits.

The reason why I said a sentence refered to other topic, (the expansion) is just a way as many other said here..that this topic its not what community is interested on, and we all said it. We listen people voice, I did and you?

Anyway welcome to the forums genious! Hope I can say it and its not out of topic :/

[BaronB]

So the question is what kind of parameter changes are required.

Only parameter that needs to change is people’s attitudes.

Again. The system isn’t broken.

What exactly is the problem really if a guild has a requirement of 100k pve kills to join, or must have positive KDR to be able to join.

If they get on the leaderboards then that’s great it puts them in the spot light and when people ask to join and find out the requirements they will either

1. Be put off and find somewhere else to join
2. End up even more determined to want to join and will work their fingers off tapping away to meet the requirements of the guild they are s fan of

What is seems to be insinuated now is that everything should just be given to everyone on s platter if they want it.

To that i say a very firm No to.

Just like it’s already been said and agreed competition and challenges are healthy, let’s not then contradict ourselves so foolishly and try to say now changes need to be made to something that isn’t broken.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with people having to earn their way to a guild and just as equally nothing wrong with letting no one but newbies into a guild.. what matters is we have the ability to make that choice and suffer the consequences or reap the rewards of those choices.

The system has a solid foundation and no matter what changes are made to it the problems you’re asking for a resolution for will always be there as the changes that need to be made need to come from within.

The kinds of threads that should be created are “how can we be more decent to one another, or more understanding and supportive?”

Once most of you end up nailing that, you too will realise actually there isn’t anything wrong here in the first place and realise with just the minor bs that can be seen here sometimes, can actually have quite a lot of fun in a game that’s actually pretty f***ing cool.




*drops mic*

[Genius]

the guild lb keep people playing, make them willing to do those boring elite kills aps. obviously those just happen during dead weeks

I agree that APs should be a part of Guild LB, because (if not all) most require skills and dedicated time to complete. That's why as a start I only mentioned removal of PVE kills. And perhaps guild founding date if majority agrees, though I would like to know the significance of this parameter.

[Dalmony]

I think its been mentioned by many that its the parameters of the Guild LB that drives the Guilds to have a "number" requirement. Which is why the blame is on system

This isn't quite right.... Myself and a couple of others in this thread are actually saying that the guild lb is nothing to do with why guilds have a numbers driven requirement.

The numbers driven requirement is because some guilds want a certain type or calibre of player to join, and (rightly or wrongly so) they set their requirements so as only to allow people in who have achieved certain things. Its up to them - it's their guild.

I personally don't care where a guild is on the lb- I like a guild with some good chat, no spam/annoying guild chat, guildies who party together and support each other, and
a GM who genuinly cares about the guild and is an active participant just like everyone else rather than just being in it for the "status" it gives them.

I can confidently say that while C.U. has a numbers based requirement for example, the guild generally doesnt care or push for lb at all. Its even full of everyones 3 hc toons each, which all have terrible stats where lb is concerned - lol :)

People knew who the "big" guilds were before lb came and they'd know if it disappeared. Before guild lb there were simply guild threads on forum stating requirements to enter. The numbers=value mentality is embedded into the game.

The guild lb doesnt "cause" imho any of the problems or toxicity that you've mentioned. Not saying they aren't valid, but that removing guild lb will have no impact in it.


Your question is posed in an odd way-

There is (issues) in game caused by guild lb, therefore we should delete it. Please discuss, or if think guild lb should stay then prove why it should stay.

The whole OP is based on the (false) premise that the guild lb causes the issues in the first place...

Maybe it's time to reposition the question to:

"There are (issues) in the game: what causes them and how can we solve them?"








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[arcanefid]

I didn't read through the thread, but it's funny to see that one random guy started all this for literally no reason.

The guilds are fine, they've been OK for as long as I remember, just some random drama threads shouldn't lead to this.

To answer the topic question, yes, I think Guild LB should continue just as it is.

[Overgrown]

This post is a fallacy. You need take a break, perhaps have some tea, learn about things that goes around you and get a better perspective on life. May be then we can have a rational conversation (may be). I will ignore the future comments from you if they are going to be drafted the same way.I'm just being straight to the point, accept the truth that no one wants the changes you know a right changes, leave alone the current system, most of the reply is against your idea.

Just stop and leave the Guild LB, I apologise for the construction of my replies I just don't have time to construct fancy words for "No, Stop"

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[fatmaek]

For start
I dont see reason for that topic to be raised and tbh it was pumped up tho its not reasonable
So... i was forced to comment on some points i read


First of all AL is originally based on competition.. accomplishing tasks.. having fun.. meet ppl .. socialize...
So when u come out of no where wanting to delete one of its basics.... i see that out of issue


Devs all time are working to pull players with all ways they can to keep game going and they keep adding new ideas .. new maps.. new aps ... new every thing to keep game interesting in all ways and meet all tastes and u come so simple saying ( remove guilds lb. delete competition ) dude u r hilariously funny

Plus.. AL have all kind of guilds ... from the most op to the minimum nab
You can choose whatever it suit ur abilities and taste
And leave others choose too

Most AL players like challenge ... completing .. achieving goals.. staying op.. staying top .. and that cant be achieved or lets say harder to achieve if u dont have group of ppl that share u with ur same interest and give many varieties as possible to players to meet there different goals (which is called lb guilds)

U gave a very good example for non leader board guild that also op players “ purge” but they are op in one field.. they like it.. they master it ... they rule... but still they serve only one field in AL

Plus

U mentioned new players that doesnt have complete requirements for joining lb guilds.. dont u see that as new player its easier to have list of top 50 guilds to try to choose one of them better than keep hooping from guild to other all over AL till he finally find his way?!!!! Maybe lucky and meet his guild in his number 500 join or maybe doomed and meet his guild in number 62627737372626 join.....

I hope my point is clear and find urself a non tension guild or social guild if u r so much tired from pressure of competing.... AL is a wide wide place you know

And let tension and pressure and hard work to ppl who like

Peace.

[Allset]

I honor your personal opinion, but I play MMOs created by some of the big studios and they dont have a LB system and things are just fine there. LB system has nothing to do with drama. Anyway, if you read my last followup post I recognized the point many mentions here that Guild LB is required for competition, but at the same time the posts on this thread suggest that to change the perception required the change in system because as pointed out by other the system created the perception.

So the question is what kind of parameter changes are required.

I would stop to argue about this but there is no point in it. We have different opinions on this subject. But I would like to know the name of the guild you are associated with? If any...


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[Genius]

Only parameter that needs to change is peopleÂ’s attitudes.
........*drops mic*

This is what I get after de-cluttering your post:
1) Its not an issue with the system.
2) The issue is with the players.

And I believe your response to my question: "How would you make people change their perception given the current scenario?" is:

"
The system has a solid foundation and no matter what changes are made to it the problems youÂ’re asking for a resolution for will always be there as the changes that need to be made need to come from within.

The kinds of threads that should be created are “how can we be more decent to one another, or more understanding and supportive?”
"

[Genius]

I'm just being straight to the point, accept the truth that no one wants the changes you know a right changes, leave alone the current system, most of the reply is against your idea.

Just stop and leave the Guild LB, I apologise for the construction of my replies I just don't have time to construct fancy words for "No, Stop"

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I would take a straight forward "No, stop" any-day over a fallacy or rude reply. Thank you for taking time to tone your reply right.

[Genius]

I didn't read through the thread,
You should read through, it will give you perspective on the subject in hand.


but it's funny to see that one random guy started all this for literally no reason.
Aren't we all some random guy on Internet? BTW, there is always a reason behind everything I do, and so far everything is going according to it. :)


The guilds are fine, they've been OK for as long as I remember, just some random drama threads shouldn't lead to this.

To answer the topic question, yes, I think Guild LB should continue just as it is.

Thanks for the reply.

[Overgrown]

I therefore conclude, there's no point in removing Guild LB (based on facts from other members of this forum)

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[Genius]

I therefore conclude, there's no point in removing Guild LB (based on facts from other members of this forum)

Sent from my CPH1803 using Tapatalk

Sorry, but you do not have the authority to conclude my thread, this is an open forum kindly respect everyone's opinion.
Also, I haven't read the long posts that were posted yesterday yet. I will go through them and there will be possible rebuts.

Though I am curious why the members of LS are trying to suppress this thread and pushing for closure. If you do not like this thread you should just ignore it instead of telling me to shut-up, Thank you.

[Willl]

I think you are not really good at reading or accept others opinion. Pretty curious why your replies takes as target only a group of people, you keep try resume what other people are saying but the truth is that you just wanna put your words, your toughts..in other mouths, cause this is actually what you are doing.

Also you read/consider only some post, but as you said to Fid: before reply you should have a wide perspective of all has been written.

In case you did not notice its not just LS who do not agree with your idea, maybe you are not well informed, maybe too new to know who they are (altough all have a signature) so I help you: high society disagree with you aswell and also a member of chivalrous union seems to not agree with what you are saying.
Actually its just you trying to make this thread bigger..but the truth is that none cares..the only reason why we are replying its cause you are saying things not true underlining its community toughts but its your toughts, that s all.

Wanna continue? Keep going but dont say lies only to attract replies, thank you

[Susanne]

Sorry, but you do not have the authority to conclude my thread, this is an open forum kindly respect everyone's opinion.
Also, I haven't read the long posts that were posted yesterday yet. I will go through them and there will be possible rebuts.

Though I am curious why the members of LS are trying to suppress this thread and pushing for closure. If you do not like this thread you should just ignore it instead of telling me to shut-up, Thank you.

It always happens, they get all riled up and overdo it with loads of daft emotes and memes and really, all they're doing is trying to outdo each other with fancy words and grammer.
I wouldn't bother trying to read through the long posts, I did and they're boring and gave me a headache. They never come straight to the point.
I'll come straight to the point, leaderboards are obsolete nowadays, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.
Keep them for those who like them if it makes them happy...if you don't like them, be like me and just go around shooting things.
It's whatever floats your boat. I'm totally over being serious about a game now. I honestly can't believe I actually got emotional over a guild! The power of the pixels!
Have a good day. 🙂 (One emote suffices)

[Susanne]

I spelt Grammar wrong. I can't edit my posts and I'm not the only person to be unable to. Why?

[arcanefid]

You should read through, it will give you perspective on the subject in hand.


Aren't we all some random guy on Internet? BTW, there is always a reason behind everything I do, and so far everything is going according to it. :)



Thanks for the reply.

I meant random guy as in “you know who”, lol. Now I read some of the posts, I still have the same opinion though.

I have tried so many games and if there is one reason why I still play AL, it’s mostly because of the social features that it has. I don’t think there is a need to fix something that isn’t broken.

[Genius]

@Will: Practice what you preach.

I am only going to take your opinion into consideration IF you are going to respect mine. If you fail to do so then I will ignore your reply. After that don't create a fuss saying I am not accounting your opinion.

If you actually read the posts on this thread you will see that I am appreciating both sides of the coin. You and your gang are the one who is doing personal attacks on me in the aid of the topic. Be civilized and only talk about the subject, no need to comment on me or my opinion, just talk about yours. Now, please know your boundary and back off.

@Sussan: Thank you, its good to see that people on this forum are able to see through this BS :)
I feel their idea is to trigger me to create drama and push this thread to get locked. I am told that's how most of the threads get dismissed on this forum. Is it true?

[Overgrown]

Sorry, but you do not have the authority to conclude my thread, this is an open forum kindly respect everyone's opinion.
Also, I haven't read the long posts that were posted yesterday yet. I will go through them and there will be possible rebuts.

Though I am curious why the members of LS are trying to suppress this thread and pushing for closure. If you do not like this thread you should just ignore it instead of telling me to shut-up, Thank you.

You ain't respecting anyone's opinion back you just keep pushing your ideology and keep believing what your doing is righteous, most of your arguments are out of context and most of the people already voiced out that there is no existing problem about the guild requirements and the Guild LB.

We all want a better AL, but this thing you pushing will not do anything good in it.

On the LS side, it just happen we browsing the forums and found an interesting thread?


If you do not like this thread you should just ignore it instead of telling me to shut-up, Thank you.

Why we will ignore such a ridiculous thing? that may kill the game?



P.S. I'm just wondering, why not use your real account (forum account)? and show us your IGN and the guild where you belong, so that if we met in-game we can talk about it, its hard to ignore that you sound like an experienced player, using dummy account for your hidden motives and interests.

[Genius]

@Fatmaek: I was going to unclutter your post to take out all the important points you might have mentioned.



For start
I dont see reason for that topic to be raised and tbh it was pumped up tho its not reasonable
So... i was forced to comment on some points i read


First of all AL is originally based on competition.. accomplishing tasks.. having fun.. meet ppl .. socialize...
So when u come out of no where wanting to delete one of its basics.... i see that out of issue


Devs all time are working to pull players with all ways they can to keep game going and they keep adding new ideas .. new maps.. new aps ... new every thing to keep game interesting in all ways and meet all tastes and u come so simple saying ( remove guilds lb. delete competition ) dude u r hilariously funny


But I am sorry, I stopped reading your post here. And my response to your post is:
1) You haven't read all the posts on this thread.
2) Dude you are hilariously funny.

Lesson: You don't have to mock others to put your point forward, Thank you :)

[Willl]

@Will: Practice what you preach.

I am only going to take your opinion into consideration IF you are going to respect mine. If you fail to do so then I will ignore your reply. After that don't create a fuss saying I am not accounting your opinion.

If you actually read the posts on this thread you will see that I am appreciating both sides of the coin. You and your gang are the one who is doing personal attacks on me in the aid of the topic. Be civilized and only talk about the subject, no need to comment on me or my opinion, just talk about yours. Now, please know your boundary and back off.

First you say you did not read all posts cause you are busy and you will do later, then you admit to consider only posts that (according to your own opinion) are respectful ones.

You just teased and attacked few people (for some hidden reasons) you dont like and to make them bump your thread , you just wanted to make ur own opinion as the global one, im sorry if I didnt let you do it.

Anyway many replied you, it's clear you want attention...not feedback or you would have stopped bother and tease me or any other player 3 or 4 posts ago
My gang? There are people that disagree with you and I dont even know them or are my friends.

Its funny how you want adresse all community disagreement to only few people like me, or letal sharks members (why? others guilds talked too..high society.. member of chivalrous..insane asylem..epitome of silentkill), your pressure on those players sounds like you are jealous GM or a player that was never been able to join this guild, maybe that's why you want change the system or that's why you are using a new forum account to express your opinion altough you seem an old player, maybe you can enlight us on your ign :)

By the way, even without requirements for lb those kind of people would never be able to join my guild even with 2m pve kills: better nabs but chilled than op and drama makers ;)

I end it here, its been depressing reply at your level. Good luck!!

[arcanefid]

But I am sorry, I stopped reading your post here.


You should read through, it will give you perspective on the subject in hand.

/11characters

[BaronB]

Yeah if your not willing to actually read and respond to the posts you seem so desperate for and pick and choose who your replying to..


Then this is clearly a pointless and basied thread with nothing but hidden agenda and solely purposed to cause drama an friction =\

There is clearly no discussion going on here


Please can we get the thread shut to avoid any more toxicity spewing



1<3