What's your conclusion???

[MightyMicah]

Recently I leveled my main character to 65. I made him pure dex and got him a good set. Crafted helm and crossbow, and normal outfit and longbow (don't remember actual names.)

I started pvping and at first thought I was doing well. Then I started dying a ton and I slowly began to realize something. I was losing 9 times out of 10 to every character, Mage, archer, or warrior, as long as they had one thing...the vanity bonus.

All other characters I fought without vanity bonus I killed about 4/5 times which is about what I was hoping for, however whenever vanity got involved, it was pure ownage.

I have learned to dread the red and yellow colors. Yes I have read the countless posts with people complaining about the vanity bonus and my thoughts were "man up. Win." Now I understand just what the complaints were about.

About this time I can tell you are thinking this is just another complaint thread. Well I can tell you this, it is not. Do I plan to whine and complain until Sts is forced to submit? Of course not. I plan to do just what my advice was to other complainers. Man up.

All of this, however does not change the fact that I believe the vanity bonuses are completely unfair, but not in every way. They help in pve, and they should. After all they were awarded from great valiance in PvE. But that's just it. It was PvE that causes you to dominate in PvP? Something isn't right. (I know what you are thinking again ;) )

I also know that I have a solution which I don't believe has been thought of before. let me get this straight, If we remove the vanities from PvP or PvE or both, people get upset; even if there is good compensation. If not, others are still upset because they don't get a bonus and never can get the full bonus. How can everyone be happy?

Make a PvP Vanity Bonus!!!!!! (you are now thinking "wow really?" Let me explain. Those who have already earned the vanity bonus are like "no way I'm earning a whole new vanity set, the one I have took forever to get! That's what makes my solution so good.

Every person who has already earned the vanity bonus automatically Gets the set which technically should be earned in PvP. (a little messed up, but a developing game like PL has its oddities) It can have the same stats as the current vanity set bonus, it would just look different. This takes care of everyone who spent a lot of time to acquire the vanities. Their time will by no means have been wasted.

This conclusion also opens the door for those who never got the vanity bonus for whatever reason, Lazy, Joined the game too late, didn't understand what the vanities were (that's me ;) ) etc.

Now all of these people have a chance to earn the vanity bonus in PvP (Not in PvE mind you. That is still separate.) At this point I don't really have a system for how to earn the PvP vanities but I have a few ideas

1. Must achieve X amount of kills. (simple enough)
2. Must achieve X amount of kills in a certain time period (a little trickier)
3. Must recover from less than 50 health X amount of times (out of the box? U like? Me gusta?)
4. Must kill X amount of people in a row without dying (come on these are good! :p)

Please everyone. How would you feel to be utterly screwed in top level PvP? I know you like having your unique PvP skills from your vanity; I would too!; but the simple fact is, it just is not right. Imagine all the new guys joining the game hitting top level and realizing they can't compete on even grounds. That would flat out suck. Can we at least consider this idea of mine? Not just ignore this thread or flame it?

This right here. This thread is my conclusion to fixing end level PvP. What's yours?...I think it's time we find out just what kind of people are in these forums.

~MM

[StompArtist]

If the small bonus of end game bonus gear is enough to affect PvP to that much of an extent then it's the whole PvP scheme that is flawed. In any other game a small bonus does not create such a large gap in battle... Part of why I never liked PvP in this game to begin with.

Just my 2 cents.

[Xazic]

This has been suggested before, and what about some oldies like Kanital with huge kills... He will instantly have huge bonuses. That would make him even better, wouldn't it?

[CrimsonTider]

Coming from someone who is an average pvper...and this is just my opinion... experience > vanity bonuses. There are so many other factors to pvp other than the bonuses and experience is the greatest of all. The reason why I say this is because of my recent venture into twink pvp, more specifically 50-56. I do better at this level than at end game but I also realize I am facing individuals who are "just passing through." They may be a level 52 for a couple of days but plan on being end game within a week.

Compare this with the end-game scene where the "best" have been pvping longer than a lot of people have even been playing PL. If you factor in all the vanity bonuse (1 crit, 5 dodge, 55 health, 14 armor if I remeber correctly), they are helpful but not HUGE. Rings can be just as helpful as some of these bonuses if you know which to use.


Another factor which I am just now starting to figure out (after 6 months) is range. Understanding the range of your weapons and skills is much bigger IMO because if someone is get their skills off before you becuase they realize they are within range and you don't, you're dead. Simple as that. Please don't misunderstand me, gear does help, vanities do help, but an overall understanding of the pvp scheme is much greater.

My 2 plat...

EDIT: And as Xazic just stated, those who have been around for a long time and have achieved numbers some of us only dream of, they would be even more powerful. I think pvp is good where it is at. Also, remember that end game isn't the only comminity involved in pvp. There is already hate towards the Founders Helm in twinking and the addition of new bonuses would only cause more of a stir.

[adidaman]

Why don't we just nerf everything. The end

[Walkhardd]

Crimson pretty much said it already..for the most part, the top end game pvprs all have the vanity bonus..the players you were beating without the vanity are either newer players, or ppl that dont take pvp quite as serious. (there are exceptions)..I'm willing to bet that if some of those guys that beat you would still win if they took the set off.


Edit: that last part sounded a little mean when I read it over..promise I wasnt trying to. :)

[MightyMicah]

@stompartist, It's much more than a small bonus. For me, being a nuke dex bird, it's the difference between winning and losing. Even if it was small, my main idea was to give others some sort of chance to get the bonus. Not be permanently screwed.

@Xazic, Simple as making it a "starting now" kind of deal. Even If not however, my point remains that others will be given a chance. As well, they will have no greater bonus than that which the current vanities give. Perhaps I failed in clarity on that...

@CrimsonTider, I understand the experience bit. Please don't take this the wrong way but, you are talking to a guy who was pvping with most of the oldies. I have the so called "experience" an it definitely helps. However, the vanity is enough to screw me in practically every fight.

@Walkkhard, Don't worry! I don't get offended easily ;) no offense taken. I do respectfully disagree though. I used to beat a lot of guys who now I don't stand a chance against. I don't believe lack of evidence is my problem.

[Riccits]

i must admit too that ppl without vanitys are much easier to kill than ppl with vanitys.. if i remove mine iam easier to kill too.
IMO the bonus is relativley huge than it may seems in numbers.. and yeah its about pvp skills too, of course, but in a fight of too equal skilled ppl the one with vanitys will win 2/10 fights more thought

[Jewelsofjane]

Rush and I test alot. Almost everyday we test another build, another ring, another face, vanity/no vanity. I can tell you that Vanities do make a difference. It is a small amount, but when going against someone of close to equal skill that small extra will determine who wins the match. Rush actually trains with no vanity, but for serious matches and ctf he will wear his vanity because there is a difference.

Yes, there should be some way to earn these vanities again. Especially for the new players. Imagine the next vanity stacked.... yea then it will no longer be a "small" amount extra.

[TheSnowman]

Personally i believe that the elite vanity rewards should loop every three campaigns or so. For instance a new helm for the new campaign Humania and then a shield for the next and then a body again. The people who got the initial helm, shield and body have an item that can show there 'elitism' and they can be used along with the the elite vanities for the same set bonus.

This will hopefully put a stop to people looking the same due to everyone who reaches the level cap wearing the same vanity items for the set bonus. New players have the chance to get the set bonus even though they arrived later to the party.

One issue i can foresee however is whether the players who have got the first three vanities would bother still trying to achieve a new helm only for the purpose of having a different look.

[MightyMicah]

Good idea! I think they would if it looked different and in their opinion better :\

[ZHEOTARE]

Why not just make it so vanity bonuses are negated in pvp arenas?? Even the party hats with +1 armor would be negated. That way it'd be skill/gear vs skill/gear.

*disclaimer* I dont pvp...

[Jewelsofjane]

Personally i believe that the elite vanity rewards should loop every three campaigns or so. For instance a new helm for the new campaign Humania and then a shield for the next and then a body again. The people who got the initial helm, shield and body have an item that can show there 'elitism' and they can be used along with the the elite vanities for the same set bonus.

This will hopefully put a stop to people looking the same due to everyone who reaches the level cap wearing the same vanity items for the set bonus. New players have the chance to get the set bonus even though they arrived later to the party.

One issue i can foresee however is whether the players who have got the first three vanities would bother still trying to achieve a new helm only for the purpose of having a different look.

I also agree with this. Its a win-win for everyone in my opinion, and I dont see it being a problem that prior people try for the new vanities. The whole purpose this was put in place was to give these players a longer experience in the game, so they dont level quickly and get bored. Also, some would not want the different look because they would want to have the old look as in saying "I have been around awhile"



Why not just make it so vanity bonuses are negated in pvp arenas?? Even the party hats with +1 armor would be negated. That way it'd be skill/gear vs skill/gear.

*disclaimer* I dont pvp...
The pvp players wouldnt hardcore grind to the end then.

[Kakatoa91]

Im interested in numbers MM.
Could you find someone serious who would do 100 pvp match with you with the vanity bonus and an other 100 fights without bonus but still same opponent(!).
50 each would b good too if u dont have time.
And why not doing that with each class.
I'm just curious if theres a big difference or not.
From there you could illustrate better your point by showing the result of the tests.

[Ixillicus]

This is the age old discussion.

Yes the vanity helps, no it doesn't mean that its a guaranteed win.

[CrimsonTider]

@Micah: No worries buddy, I am not offended that easily. :) As you stated, this is a feedback thread.

Based on what you stated, I took it as you are new to pvp. Now, based on your response, I am curious as tobwhether you have asked these individuals who you say you use to beat to a 1v1 without his/her vanities. To me, that is the only true test as to whether your theory holds up or not. An example for me is Cosmicghost. I can barely scratch him in CTF but there are other Crafted wand mages I have no trouble with. This is where my experience argument and skill understanding comes in.


I will emphasize again that I still consider myself "new" to pvp as I don't spend a 1/5 of the time in the arena that others posting here do.

EDIT: @Edensfury: I am sure the hardcore would still grind because of the fractional margin of improvement in stats and skills which is part of the discussion of this thread.

[Jewelsofjane]

This is the age old discussion.

Yes the vanity helps, no it doesn't mean that its a guaranteed win.
lol agree.... now if we could get a dev to make a response some day about what their thoughts are it might help this discussion to finally end....... ugh please devs, tell us what your thinking.

[MightyMicah]

So it sounds like right now what we need is some hardcore evidence as to whether the vanities effect it THAT much or not. It's easier said than done though.

I mean if I verse someone like Kanital, I'm probably gonna win 1/100 rounds vanity or not LOL, but someone like "mr noob" will win against me vanity or not 1/100. See what I mean?

I agree with Crimson, if people I used to beat are now beating me with vanities, there might be a problem. I would have to find someone of equal PvP skill as me and try vanities on and off for it to work out :\

[AbsolutePally]

Here is the main problem with "achieving kills" etc in pvp. Money. Money. Money.
I paid 200 dollars to have 4000 plat to get 5 of the vanities for two of my chars and level my bear. Sts would not allow someone to get this same thing for free, with just time spent. In this case time is not money.
Gg

But dont be fooled when you take your vanity off and lose initially. IT TAKES TIME TO ADJUST. Many think oh take it off I will win watch. And they do, at first. The reason is because ir messes with your timing,and flow. Timing of heals shields push backs freezes etc.
For example. Last night i was beating a non vanity guy easily (int craft vs int craft w vanity) then he said take em off. Well I began to lose, at first. He got happy, then I adjusted and won almost 10/1. Skills. Skills. Skills.

[Swimmingstar]

I agree with this and don't agree with this. The easy solution would be to take away vanities from PvP or nerf them, but there would be some rage. I can kill these vanity set people easily. At least some of them. But the more expierienced people take getting used to to beat. That proves PvP is more about skill. But vanity does make a big difference sometimes. The expierienced with vanity people can be killed easily when they take off vanity, but when they get used to it, they are getting more expierienced without being overpowered. Ask Absolute/Always. He expierienced this yesterday. We did many matches. He won the majority or the vanity matches and I managed to tie and even win matches after he had only the 66 vanity armor on. I was level 65.5 no cap vanities at all. This is just from experience /experiment.

[Snakespeare]

My conclusion is that PvP is an add-on. It exists solely for FUN. Therefore, we shouldn't track kills and deaths.

PvP is also a drain on the game's resources. If there were no PvP, there would be more available memory so they wouldn't have to reuse map sections. We can't ride, swim, levitate, or fly, but we can PvP. I guess it's easier to code it that way. And what do we get for PvPing? Nothing. Just some numbers on your avatar page. Do PvPers spent much plat? Of course not. There's no reason. Elixirs don't work in PvP. They might buy one or two plat item if they are twinking, but not for end cap PvP, which is most players. So, it's really just a drain on resources, AND it doesn't earn the devs any money.

HOWEVER, a lot of people do it for FUN, and that keeps them hanging around while they wait for the next level cap. So, let's keep PvP, just get rid of the LB and turn off the kill and death tracking. That way it will be exclusively for FUN, which is as it should be.

[Swimmingstar]

Yeah! But some people who get a lot of kills could be mad.

[Gaunab]

My conclusion is that PvP is an add-on. It exists solely for FUN. Therefore, we shouldn't track kills and deaths.

PvP is also a drain on the game's resources. If there were no PvP, there would be more available memory so they wouldn't have to reuse map sections. We can't ride, swim, levitate, or fly, but we can PvP. I guess it's easier to code it that way. And what do we get for PvPing? Nothing. Just some numbers on your avatar page. Do PvPers spent much plat? Of course not. There's no reason. Elixirs don't work in PvP. They might buy one or two plat item if they are twinking, but not for end cap PvP, which is most players. So, it's really just a drain on resources, AND it doesn't earn the devs any money.

HOWEVER, a lot of people do it for FUN, and that keeps them hanging around while they wait for the next level cap. So, let's keep PvP, just get rid of the LB and turn off the kill and death tracking. That way it will be exclusively for FUN, which is as it should be.

Some very interesting thoughts, but I have to disagree with some parts...

- PvPers DO spend plat, and often alot.
Every hardcore PvPer wants to be at the cap as soon as possible when there's a new levelcap, esspecially now for the vanities. They all blow plat on those 4x combos, often for multilple chars so they can then forget about PvE and go back to the arena. Furthermore they spend money on various rings, faces, platpacks and respect in order to find the perfect build.
I don't have numbers but I'm sure that the PvP community produces quite some income for STS.

And if we didn't have PvP, for many players (included me) this game would be dead. Even if the PvE maps were more creative, PvP is for many people the only thing that keeps them playing, and therefor spending money ingame!

And believe me, PvP will always have a very competitive character, no matter if there are LBs or not. And I think it's good we have this spirit, eventhough some people take it far too seriously...

[Ixillicus]

My conclusion is that PvP is an add-on. It exists solely for FUN. Therefore, we shouldn't track kills and deaths.

PvP is also a drain on the game's resources. If there were no PvP, there would be more available memory so they wouldn't have to reuse map sections. We can't ride, swim, levitate, or fly, but we can PvP. I guess it's easier to code it that way. And what do we get for PvPing? Nothing. Just some numbers on your avatar page. Do PvPers spent much plat? Of course not. There's no reason. Elixirs don't work in PvP. They might buy one or two plat item if they are twinking, but not for end cap PvP, which is most players. So, it's really just a drain on resources, AND it doesn't earn the devs any money.

HOWEVER, a lot of people do it for FUN, and that keeps them hanging around while they wait for the next level cap. So, let's keep PvP, just get rid of the LB and turn off the kill and death tracking. That way it will be exclusively for FUN, which is as it should be.

I want to disagree with you here on a few points.

First of all, I doubt there is much extra memory being used, because all of the PVP maps are using the same aforementioned textures.

Second, we spend a lot of plat. I find PVE very boring and repetitive and want to spend as little time as possible playing it. So I spend all that plat levelling and farming, and then I spend more re-specing and messing around on my main or twinks.

It's competitive and fun, and since it's something for us non-pve fans to do until we blow a bunch more plat getting to the next cap. I would say it helps the devs make more money by entertaining me so I don't quit.

[Snakespeare]

Ah, good points. Hardcore PvPers are the ones who spend plat rushing to cap. That's right. Well... I'm not saying get rid of it. I was opposed to it when they added it, but my friends all like it, so I came to accept it. I'm talking outside of my experience, I know.

Still, would it really hurt to stop having a PvP leaderboard? I'm not sure it means anything.

[AbsolutePally]

I agree with this and don't agree with this. The easy solution would be to take away vanities from PvP or nerf them, but there would be some rage. I can kill these vanity set people easily. At least some of them. But the more expierienced people take getting used to to beat. That proves PvP is more about skill. But vanity does make a big difference sometimes. The expierienced with vanity people can be killed easily when they take off vanity, but when they get used to it, they are getting more expierienced without being overpowered. Ask Absolute/Always. He expierienced this yesterday. We did many matches. He won the majority or the vanity matches and I managed to tie and even win matches after he had only the 66 vanity armor on. I was level 65.5 no cap vanities at all. This is just from experience /experiment.

I think your liberal misuse of the word easily is misleading and exaggorated. I am pretty sure w vanity it would be 10/0 and wout it does take time to get used to. You won initially but after I adjusting I kept count of 9/1 me.

[AbsolutePally]

Ah, good points. Hardcore PvPers are the ones who spend plat rushing to cap. That's right. Well... I'm not saying get rid of it. I was opposed to it when they added it, but my friends all like it, so I came to accept it. I'm talking outside of my experience, I know.

Still, would it really hurt to stop having a PvP leaderboard? I'm not sure it means anything.

What really makes NO sense is a leaderboard for biggest guild. And not one for CTF.
PvE LB is silly too. Ok you smash buttons unskillfully at whatever range with double and triple elixers. Big whoop.

I agree with Drink above. Pve is boring and takes zero to minimal talent, it is repetitive and requires minimal effort.

[Whirlzap]

What really makes NO sense is a leaderboard for biggest guild. And not one for CTF.
PvE LB is silly too. Ok you smash buttons unskillfully at whatever range with double and triple elixers. Big whoop.

I agree with Drink above. Pve is boring and takes zero to minimal talent, it is repetitive and requires minimal effort.

Whoever stated that PvE is elixirs doesn't know enough about PvE.
If you're gonna go around using 4x Combo, OF COURSE PvE is easy!
Except having skill in PvE isn't using 4x Combo. Plus it's not boring and takes A LOT MORE TALENT than PvP.
That is, being EFFICIENT at PvE and not using any elixirs.
I suppose one could say the same about PvP.
You just need to gear up, get the best build, gear and items. Then you win most of the time; as stated by this exact thread.
However, have all the best gear you want, but no elixirs, and you won't win every time in PvE.
You can't tackle those bosses alone, you cannot do anything alone unless you TRULY understand, and are PRO, at PvE.

[AbsolutePally]

There is no such thing as a pro pve player. Thats almost an oxymoron.
Bring me the best pve player or even a team of them and we will 1/1, 3/3, 5/5 ffa or ctf. If they had any talent that talent would carry over into the arena. Which it does not.
Pve players lack: Timing (heals/shield/breaks) range awareness, speed, movement list goes on and on.
If you dont believe me, set it up in game. No more talk.

[CrimsonTider]

What really makes NO sense is a leaderboard for biggest guild. And not one for CTF.
PvE LB is silly too. Ok you smash buttons unskillfully at whatever range with double and triple elixers. Big whoop.

I agree with Drink above. Pve is boring and takes zero to minimal talent, it is repetitive and requires minimal effort.

You know I respect your PvP skills and those who have posted here but to say PvE requires NO skill is a little far fetched. I know because I have been running a lot of pug's the last few days and a lot of people using 4/3x elixir's are dying left and right. I use the 2 handed Orlok sword to tank and many players cannot handle mobs larger than 5-6 (and I usually gather 10 at a time if I can. If PvE required no skill or team understanding, then people would not STILL complain about Haunted Symphony being "too hard". The first thing I do when I join a pug is scan each character so I know who I am playing with and adjust my attack style appropriately.

Your statement about PvE leaderboards can also be stated about PvP. I have personally walked into games the last three days where someone is running around with no gear and the other is boosting their kills. It happens in all areas of the game (lack of integrity), and shouodn't have a finger pointed to just one area.

I agree the LB's are decieving. Laregest guild doesn't represent the "largest guild", it represents the most cap players within one guild. PvE has kill farming as DOES PvP. Just want to clear things up.

[AbsolutePally]

Idk maybe you are right Crim. Im guilty of exaggorating and a fact is I only pve with Revelation members. Or at least 4/5 of my guildmates. Sorry if I come off arrogant.

[CrimsonTider]

Idk maybe you are right Crim. Im guilty of exaggorating and a fact is I only pve with Revelation members. Or at least 4/5 of my guildmates. Sorry if I come off arrogant.

No worries bro! I am use to my COT family slicing through mobs without blinking, but I am brought back to reality in pugs. Same goes for PvP. When I play with known PvPer's, I am much more relaxed and don't have to think as much. When I join random games, I really have to think about each mive as they NEVER run smoothly.

All in a day's work I guess. ;)

[Blind]

I couldn't bother to read other comments, so sorry if i repeat someone.


You get owned by people with vanity bonuses because those people who have it are hardcore pl pros, well most of them. If they can get something they might need in pvp, they are gonna grind 150k xp if needed.

You beat people without the bonuses because those are lazy noobs, who can't pvp.

So yeah. It's all skill. Someone like Dolloway can beat almost anyone using demonic set with no bonus vs a guy with crafted 65 set and full bonus.

Btw here's a fun fact.

I have versed Smilingbird 1v1 twice

I took off my vanity for him one game and won 10-9

Next game i put on the set and won 10-9 again.

Looks like the bonus didn't even make any difference.

Also to those who are concerned about ping. It might be frustrating.

I live in Australia, and my ping is horrible. On pl it's almost always 600-1000.

Well i have versed pros like Acedager and lost 8:10 and Apollo and lost 9:10.

It's 90% skill, and only the rest is gear/ping/something else.

[XghostzX]

I think experience and skill is the biggest component to being a good PvPer at end game level. However, I like having the special bonus. I worked hard for it, investing so much plat and time in to it. It's the same idea with gear. People complain the best gear is too hard to get and/or buy; we all have the same chances in farming, some people get luckier. But like i said, I worked hard getting the best gear in game as I worked hard getting the bonus vanity gears. Players who invest time and plat diserve a bonus, otherwise it's like 150 bucks down the drain (even though spending lots of money on a game is a bit down the drain for me ^_^)

Yeah, I'm a hardcore gamer, PL plays a huge role in my secret life; none of my friends would think it. PvP and the people in this game is what keeps me going... so yeah, if it takes 150k XP to get some awesome bonus, hell yeah I'm going for it.

Go big or go home ;) earn it.

[MightyMicah]

Ok here's what I want to know. Since when did we abandon the idea of stats? Everyone keeps saying "it's all skill it's all skill." It is NOT all skill. First of all luck is a huge factor. Second of all stats are as well. I'm not trying to brag or anything but, I have this so called "skill". You don't earn a legit level 51 1300/200 kill death ratio by having no skill. Why is it I can't even get a 3/2 ratio at top level? Because it is not all skill.

Let's run some numbers based on what Crim said the bonus is: 1 crit 5 dodge, 55 health, and 14 armor.

Ok I shoot four shots at the enemy. Because of his extra armor, he just saved 56 health, plus his extra 55 health. That's 111 health that I don't have. That's only assuming that he doesn't dodge any of my shots. But btw he has more chance of dodging the shots as well...

At this point you are most likely thinking "no dude a lucky crit would change that right away; and don't tell me 1% crit will change that." what did you just say? A LUCKY crit. Suddenly it's no longer skill.

In essence what I'm saying is, by everyone's logic patterns, I might as well equip whatever crap I want. It's all about skill after all. No need to try and equip the best. See the flawed thinking?

If you start asking around you will find ALOT of people who agree with me about the luck factor. You will also find ALOT of people who believe that the vanity bonus is over powered. It's not just a minority group that believes this.

[Mikeylito]

Ok here's what I want to know. Since when did we abandon the idea of stats? Everyone keeps saying "it's all skill it's all skill." It is NOT all skill. First of all luck is a huge factor. Second of all stats are as well. I'm not trying to brag or anything but, I have this so called "skill". You don't earn a legit level 51 1300/200 kill death ratio by having no skill. Why is it I can't even get a 3/2 ratio at top level? Because it is not all skill.

Let's run some numbers based on what Crim said the bonus is: 1 crit 5 dodge, 55 health, and 14 armor.

Ok I shoot four shots at the enemy. Because of his extra armor, he just saved 56 health, plus his extra 55 health. That's 111 health that I don't have. That's only assuming that he doesn't dodge any of my shots. But btw he has more chance of dodging the shots as well...

At this point you are most likely thinking "no dude a lucky crit would change that right away; and don't tell me 1% crit will change that." what did you just say? A LUCKY crit. Suddenly it's no longer skill.

In essence what I'm saying is, by everyone's logic patterns, I might as well equip whatever crap I want. It's all about skill after all. No need to try and equip the best. See the flawed thinking?

If you start asking around you will find ALOT of people who agree with me about the luck factor. You will also find ALOT of people who believe that the vanity bonus is over powered. It's not just a minority group that believes this.

Well said. Ive claimed since day one vanity set is a huge advantage. I wish there was a way they can make all new comers have a chance to get one. Im just glad i have my set:) i can almost assure you i wont be able to compete with other pro players if i didnt have vanity set on. I tested thoroughly and it does make a difference. I feel really bad for all the newbies!!

[AbsolutePally]

Ok here's what I want to know. Since when did we abandon the idea of stats? Everyone keeps saying "it's all skill it's all skill." It is NOT all skill. First of all luck is a huge factor. Second of all stats are as well. I'm not trying to brag or anything but, I have this so called "skill". You don't earn a legit level 51 1300/200 kill death ratio by having no skill. Why is it I can't even get a 3/2 ratio at top level? Because it is not all skill.

Let's run some numbers based on what Crim said the bonus is: 1 crit 5 dodge, 55 health, and 14 armor.

Ok I shoot four shots at the enemy. Because of his extra armor, he just saved 56 health, plus his extra 55 health. That's 111 health that I don't have. That's only assuming that he doesn't dodge any of my shots. But btw he has more chance of dodging the shots as well...

At this point you are most likely thinking "no dude a lucky crit would change that right away; and don't tell me 1% crit will change that." what did you just say? A LUCKY crit. Suddenly it's no longer skill.

In essence what I'm saying is, by everyone's logic patterns, I might as well equip whatever crap I want. It's all about skill after all. No need to try and equip the best. See the flawed thinking?

If you start asking around you will find ALOT of people who agree with me about the luck factor. You will also find ALOT of people who believe that the vanity bonus is over powered. It's not just a minority group that believes this.

Its not just the vanity bonus but also Crafted Int Wand mages. Now that is overpowered. Even a bear/bird w bonus has a hard time (typically, not Kanital vs newmagenumberthree)

[protectorofnoobs]

nice micah :)
everybody please read this
i have three 35 twinks, 3 30 twinks, 3 26 twinks, 3 55 pvpers(they twinks yet?), and 3 65 pvpers. A lot of twinks know me and im not the best but i sure am good. i have first-hand experience in both end-game pvp and twink pvp and i can tell you guys that there is a HUGEEEMOOONNGGGOUSSSS difference. WHY? Because of the vanity sets. In twink pvp, dedicated pvpers have very similar gear and therefore the only thing that sets them apart is Skill. However, in endgame pvp, SKILLS and STATS set them apart. Sooooo, if you have the same skill as your opponent and they have better gear, you lose :( .(most of the time) AAAnndd when somebody is lacking in skill(thats the nicest way i can put it) they still have an equal chance at beating you when your better than them.

Pvp is a sport and like all other sports, your gear should be equal. Its purpose is for you to have fun, improve, and get better at killing other people(not in real life). It isn't fun when people have advantages over you other than skill. Its like youre wearing sandals in basketball while everybody else got those 2k$$ nikes. You will get OWNED.

BUttttttt . . . . . . in the end,
it all comes down to $$MONEY$$. Spacetime Studios won't do anything for pvp unless they get some cha-ching from it.(I can't blame them because theyre a business and thats what they're supposed to do.) Absolutepally honestly mentioned he/she spent 200$ on this game for the purpose of pvp. Well, since this system works, sts will probably keep it. It needs these types of players to give it the $$ to strive and succeed as a business. (I am not saying Absolutepally is bad or anything)

FINAL THOUGHTS:(FOR DEVS ESPECIALLY)
You can still change their mind if it improves the rate of $$ or doesn't decrease the cha-ching significantly. Pocket Legends should have seperated pvp and pve from the start. The option to Pay $$ to increase your stats and make you a better player and to help out your teammates in pve was a necessary and nice decision. Noone got mad over it, it only made the buyer more happy. However, in pvp more often than not, your on the receiving side and will get your uh buttom whooped because someone paid money. YOU SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO BUY YOUR VICTORY OVER OTHERS. ITs supposed to be competitive but when anyone can throw money here and there and start owning you just because they have the money its not fun anymore. I can tell all of you forumers that endgame pvp is getting DRY. Only patient people and people who have cash are there now. YUP, pvp is going to suck and have a painful death if sts keeps doing this.

So, suggestions:
Give rewards for pvping (if people get rewards for pveing,then they should get rewards for pvping.) Some people love pve and others pvp. Theyre still giving pl some of their time, and as a result both should get rewards. only allow these cash-paid advantages in pve
let people pay cash to change their appearance or change some other aspects of the game other than their own stats in pvp

[Swimmingstar]

Since I've heard the set gives 15 armor, that could make a small difference.

[Swimmingstar]

nice micah :)
everybody please read this
i have three 35 twinks, 3 30 twinks, 3 26 twinks, 3 55 pvpers(they twinks yet?), and 3 65 pvpers. A lot of twinks know me and im not the best but i sure am good. i have first-hand experience in both end-game pvp and twink pvp and i can tell you guys that there is a HUGEEEMOOONNGGGOUSSSS difference. WHY? Because of the vanity sets. In twink pvp, dedicated pvpers have very similar gear and therefore the only thing that sets them apart is Skill. However, in endgame pvp, SKILLS and STATS set them apart. Sooooo, if you have the same skill as your opponent and they have better gear, you lose :( .(most of the time) AAAnndd when somebody is lacking in skill(thats the nicest way i can put it) they still have an equal chance at beating you when your better than them.

Pvp is a sport and like all other sports, your gear should be equal. Its purpose is for you to have fun, improve, and get better at killing other people(not in real life). It isn't fun when people have advantages over you other than skill. Its like youre wearing sandals in basketball while everybody else got those 2k$$ nikes. You will get OWNED.

BUttttttt . . . . . . in the end,
it all comes down to $$MONEY$$. Spacetime Studios won't do anything for pvp unless they get some cha-ching from it.(I can't blame them because theyre a business and thats what they're supposed to do.) Absolutepally honestly mentioned he/she spent 200$ on this game for the purpose of pvp. Well, since this system works, sts will probably keep it. It needs these types of players to give it the $$ to strive and succeed as a business. (I am not saying Absolutepally is bad or anything)

FINAL THOUGHTS:(FOR DEVS ESPECIALLY)
You can still change their mind if it improves the rate of $$ or doesn't decrease the cha-ching significantly. Pocket Legends should have seperated pvp and pve from the start. The option to Pay $$ to increase your stats and make you a better player and to help out your teammates in pve was a necessary and nice decision. Noone got mad over it, it only made the buyer more happy. However, in pvp more often than not, your on the receiving side and will get your uh buttom whooped because someone paid money. YOU SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO BUY YOUR VICTORY OVER OTHERS. ITs supposed to be competitive but when anyone can throw money here and there and start owning you just because they have the money its not fun anymore. I can tell all of you forumers that endgame pvp is getting DRY. Only patient people and people who have cash are there now. YUP, pvp is going to suck and have a painful death if sts keeps doing this.

So, suggestions:
Give rewards for pvping (if people get rewards for pveing,then they should get rewards for pvping.) Some people love pve and others pvp. Theyre still giving pl some of their time, and as a result both should get rewards. only allow these cash-paid advantages in pve
let people pay cash to change their appearance or change some other aspects of the game other than their own stats in pvp

Agreed, if it keeps going like this. Soon the set will be like wearing another crafted set. Double ownage.

[JaytB]

I've read almost all the comments and, personally, I think it's a bit late to complain about the vanity sets now. If they would remove the bonusses now, I'm sure many people who made the though grind to every level cap in order to get these items, will be very upset. The bonusses are there since the lvl cap was 61, which was months ago. Some people complained then, and nothing changed. It's the same with the founders helm. Some people who didn't have it complained, but nothing changed.

If STS would miraculously change their mind about the bonusses now, it would create an even bigger uproar IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less if they removed the bonusses or not. I'm just saying it has been there for months, people spent rl $$ and/or time to get these items because of the stats and/or look. It wouldn't make sense to all of a sudden remove these stats now IMO.

If you 1v1 someone, you could simply ask them to remove their vanity sets, if you really think it makes such a huge difference as some people here are saying.

[CrimsonTider]

What Jay just said in his last paragraph is key: has anyone played against people with/without thevsets and seen seperate results? Fine, testing the vanity sets is one thing but the ONLY true test to prove a theory is to have multiple data points. For example:

I am in an arena with Dolloway, Paahud, and Shelby (notice I provided names of some of the BEST at all three levels of pvp. The only difference in facing these three individuals is Dolloway has the elite vanity bonus and the others do not. Therefore, my only true measuring stick against Dolloway is to ask him to remove his vanities and 1v1 straight up for a substantial amount of fights (not just first to 10.) Now, if Paahud and Shelby have a Founders Helm, I have to ask them to remove this item so they are equal to me as I do not have one and then go through the same trials. BUT this is still only part of the testing process. If we are going off of equality, as some are pointing out, I need to have the same gear, right? From what I am understanding, even with the vanities removed, I need to match Dolloways Sanquine Longbow/Orlok 1h set, Paahud's possible Lv 56 Obedience Xbow set and Shelby's exact Voodoo set (which according to shield varies in STATS.) What does the last sentence have to do with anything? Well, all of those sets are the most expensive to attain per their respective levels and are the only way to truly measure the theory we are all discussing.

Again, yes the vanities make a difference at end game PvP just like the Founder's Helm makes a difference intwink pvp. But, we cannot ignore that gear will also have it's affects. As someone who also has a couple of toons at the lvl 56 range, I can assure you the lucky few with full lvl 56 Nuri's gear are at a great advantage over those with Sewer sets. And just to use Micah's comment and put into context: my kdr is MUCH better at lvl 52 than at endgame. I also face a wider range of pvpers and I can assure you it is much easier killing a 50-52 than it is facing YOUR level (65-66) each time. For those who say their twink stats are 100% legit are not being honest as noone faces their exact level all the time as you deal with rushers, spawn killers, and low levels who insist on fighting you even though you both know you are the better player with better gear and sometimes a higher level which provides what?? Better stats.

Like Jay, I could care less about the vanity bonuses in pvp or pve. I do not get caught up in the game enough to let it bother me. I could care less about my kdr too. Yes, I have positives on all my toons but my bear but so what? I play PvP to break up the monotony of farming and questing, to have fun with friends, and to make new friends. When people begin talking about "owning" someone, or calling people "noobs", I begin to laugh because (1) you are showing your age and if an adult uses these, it's sad, and (2) I simply leave as I refuse to allow myself to get caught up in that nonsense. Noone "owns" anyone in this GAME and there would be a lot less "noobs" in pvp if people would put their stupid ego's in check and be a little more helpful. I mean really... when was the last time someone cashed a check from STS for spawn killing a someone who rushed in Forest Fight because it was their first time and rushed and killed a "pro"?? Exactly.. never.

The game is meant to be fun. It has been brought up before that if the vanities bother someone that much then make your own games and ask individuals to remove their vanities or leave. And just to clarify, I am in agreement with the ones who feel quests need to be added to each campaign to allow newer players the opportunity to "earn" the older cap vanities (notice I said earn and NOT buy.) :)

Sorry if any of this sounded like a rant as that was not the purpose. As I have stated before, I am far from being a great pvper ( althought Rushorgtfo paid me a nice compliment after we 1v1 once) but whether I lose to someone with or without vanities, my competitive nature wants to find a way to be better and beat those (or at least hang) who I have trouble with. The day PvP stresses me out and I take it too seriously is the day I stop pvping. Pretty simple.

[Riccits]

I find PVE very boring and repetitive and want to spend as little time as possible playing it.


i begin to think the same... :-O

[MightyMicah]

@Crim and Jay, you guys keep forgetting the purpose of this thread. No jaytb I am not complaining. (did you read my thread? O.o) I am offering a solution for those who could never have received the bonus. And once again I will state that you are forgetting stats. Since when did we ignore extra stats?

You keep saying you want evidence. What do you call the tons of people without vanity sets respectfully explaining that they well....don't stand too much of a chance?

[Ixillicus]

You keep saying you want evidence. What do you call the tons of people without vanity sets respectfully explaining that they well....don't stand too much of a chance?

I am not trying to weigh in on whether or not the vanity is unfair. I just want to point out that what you are stating is called "anecdotal evidence". Meaning... someones experience leads them to believe a certain way. This does not necessarily make it true or untrue, it is not conclusive.

Solid evidence would involve carefully controlled trials (Same gear, with and without vanity, against the same player(s) for a large number of matches to draw a solid conclusion).

The vanity is definitely an advantage, and it is fairly strong (and getting stronger with each cap). But the skeptical people want solid evidence, and anecdotal evidence will not satisfy this. To end this argument and have a conclusion determined, you would have to test. Otherwise this thread will remain an argument.

[AbsolutePally]

The third piece bonus is not all that great, if you collected two pieces then you would be fine. Three pieces vs no pieces is tough tho. However, sts is giving players a chance to catch up or get pieces together.
It is not anyone fault or problem but your own if you fail for any reason to obtain these offered pieces. Unless you started today amd dont make 66 for one piece before the next update comes out. But there will be many updates to come, the people that have three are just on the end of the curve, ahead of others. Who knows some might not be able to het another piece and you may.

[Jewelsofjane]

That's just the thing for me, has it been confirmed that EVERY cap level there will be a chance to get the vanity and not stop at 4? If so, then I no longer have an argument. I just wanted to make sure that new players had the chance as well, and I think if a dev could confirm this then others would be satisfied as well.

[Swimmingstar]

If a dev could confirm it and make the cap exp no higher than 100,000 xp each cap, then I would be satisfied. But I can see many still won't. The devs could lower it if people keep complaining.

[AbsolutePally]

As of now there are 5 slots for vanity. Helm, shield, armor, weapon, and pet. Also, who is to say that after the weapon is offered and pet (maybe 71&76) they won't have new version of the helm or others for 81/86/91... That offer different stats. Maybe more offensive ones compared to the defensive we sre currently seeing.

[CrimsonTider]

@Crim and Jay, you guys keep forgetting the purpose of this thread. No jaytb I am not complaining. (did you read my thread? O.o) I am offering a solution for those who could never have received the bonus. And once again I will state that you are forgetting stats. Since when did we ignore extra stats?

You keep saying you want evidence. What do you call the tons of people without vanity sets respectfully explaining that they well....don't stand too much of a chance?

I am pretty sure that if you read my last thread in it's entirity you would see I did in fact address stats. I also addressed my opinion on allowing new players the opportunity to earn previous vanities and how to get this accomplished. But as Remi (Haterade) pointed out, there is much more to this than just the vanity stats and multiple individuals have provided solutions as to how to go about getting the answers you seek.

Once more, find the individuals you USE to beat before the vanity bonuses and make a locked pvp game. Equip the gear you desire and fight: 100 fights with and without the vanity bonuses. Your sample size has to be great enough to support your theory. When you conclude, if you win the majority of the matches without the vanities and lose the majority with the vanities equipped, then your theory makes sense. Does this make sense? :)

[protectorofnoobs]

Heh the results would always remain the same :)

[CrimsonTider]

Heh the results would always remain the same :)

Results of what? If you are referring to the research we are asking Micah to conduct then the only way you can make this statement is to actually perform a study, show your groups, and provide the data after you've completed your trials. Otherwise, all of the info posted within this thread is purely opinionated discussion.

[StompArtist]

Results of what? If you are referring to the research we are asking Micah to conduct then the only way you can make this statement is to actually perform a study, show your groups, and provide the data after you've completed your trials. Otherwise, all of the info posted within this thread is purely opinionated discussion.

I believe this debate will never be settled unless someone can find a way of testing without human skills. That would require bots and I am quite certain that Flip would frown upon the test method. :D

[AbsolutePally]

I believe this debate will never be settled unless someone can find a way of testing without human skills. That would require bots and I am quite certain that Flip would frown upon the test method. :D

I know a bot we can use to test this!

[CrimsonTider]

I believe this debate will never be settled unless someone can find a way of testing without human skills. That would require bots and I am quite certain that Flip would frown upon the test method. :D

To use the name of one of my favorite Metallica songs:

"Sad but True" ;)

[MightyMicah]

Ok, I'm not gonna argue this anymore. I find it very ironic that everyone defending the vanities are the same people who have already acquired the vanities. Seriously? Are you that content with your advantage that you aren't even open to the idea of new players given a chance to earn the vanities? This game will be around for years and years to come. Will there never be a COMPLETELY fair playing field for everyone? Where's your competitive nature at? Surely you don't want every victory of yours blamed on your vanity do you? Or are you content to win and take the criticism? Where's your heart at?

Common sense should tell you that when two equally skilled players fight, the one with the extra stats will come out on top. This is not an opinion. This is fact.

I propose a different test. Since everyone is soooo concerned about their precious evidence, try removing your vanities for a couple days, weeks, or even months. You will be surprised how much "skill" you lose. You're not gonna do it are you? I wonder why?...

That's all I'm gonna say on the matter.

(I'm not trying to attack/offend anyone personally. I am, however, fed up with all this crap.)

~MM

[CrimsonTider]

Ok, I'm not gonna argue this anymore. I find it very ironic that everyone defending the vanities are the same people who have already acquired the vanities. Seriously? Are you that content with your advantage that you aren't even open to the idea of new players given a chance to earn the vanities? This game will be around for years and years to come. Will there never be a COMPLETELY fair playing field for everyone? Where's your competitive nature at? Surely you don't want every victory of yours blamed on your vanity do you? Or are you content to win and take the criticism? Where's your heart at?

Common sense should tell you that when two equally skilled players fight, the one with the extra stats will come out on top. This is not an opinion. This is fact.

I propose a different test. Since everyone is soooo concerned about their precious evidence, try removing your vanities for a couple days, weeks, or even months. You will be surprised how much "skill" you lose. You're not gonna do it are you? I wonder why?...

That's all I'm gonna say on the matter.

(I'm not trying to attack/offend anyone personally. I am, however, fed up with all this crap.)

~MM

What I find troubling is the fact that you slectively left out where thise of us WITH the vanities are FOR newer palyers having access in future updates to do quests to attain these vanities. You opened a feedback thread and are not open to the feedback. Many of us have stated we could care less whether the vanities give stats or not in pvp, but you are missing that somewhere.

I think a lot of good and diverse opinions have been given within this thread and it is not all "crap" as you put it.

[AbsolutePally]

Seems like some dont wanna put in the effort.

[JaytB]

I find it very ironic that everyone defending the vanities are the same people who have already acquired the vanities.

This is exactly the reason why I didn't really want to comment in this thread before. It usually ends up saying the exact thing as you're saying here. As I said, this is the same as with the founders helm, and the discussions about the vanity sets months ago (look up the threads if you have doubts).

You could very well turn your reasoning around and say how ironic it is that everyone claiming 'unfair advantage' are the ones who didn't actually acquire the vanities in the first place.

many people (including myself) have already said (in past threads) that they're all for giving people a chance to get these vanity items in some alternative way, but only if it requires an equal amount of work to get them.

[Imsebastiaanl]

I dont have many platinum but I play pvp much at high lvls, I know what the set bonus is (my friend has it), I thought it was: crown+nuri shield+66 robe: 10 armor, 5 dodge and 50 heatlh pool. Without crown: 50 health pool, 5 dodge, but im not sure. I am never at highest lvl, I dont have enough time. if I had many platinum, I had all the bonusses now. I trained 23k in the previous lvl cap and trained more then 20k this lvl cap. Hope I will be 66 this time. But if u train and have a good set, you can beat people with those sets.

[MightyMicah]

@Crim I selectively left it out because it is simply not there. Yes everyone might claim they are open to it, but when an idea presents itself what happens? "no that dea doesn't work because everyone worked HARD (key word) to get those vanities. It wouldn't be right to make them easier to acquire. It isn't fair now" Yup darn right it's not fair.

Btw, it is really hard to rob a bank. It isn't fair to those who lose their money. Now is it?

Jay, thats exactly where you are wrong. Just the other day my bro with full vanity set said he was disgusted with the vanities. He also claimed it had a "huuuuuge advantage over everyone." yes he does pvp alot. Only reason he got vanity is cause he knows you gotta get it or you are screwed.

You guys can keep arguing with me. I can do this forever. I firmly believe the facts support my side. Mark my words one day a solution will be made. The devs aren't stupid. They see it as easily as I do. This is simply not right.

~MM

Edit: btw I was not at all referring to everyone's opinions as crap. That was MY bad. (im not very good at clarity as you can tell) I was simply referring to the messed up pvp system. But that's an argument for another thread...

[JaytB]

Jay, thats exactly where you are wrong. Just the other day my bro with full vanity set said he was disgusted with the vanities. He also claimed it had a "huuuuuge advantage over everyone." yes he does pvp alot. Only reason he got vanity is cause he knows you gotta get it or you are screwed.

You said yourself that everyone that defended the vanity were the ones who have them. Now you say your 'bro' says the contrary.

But yeah, I agree with you on 1 thing, this discussion can go on forever. I sincerely hope devs do find a way to implement a way for newer people to get these vanities, so that discussions like these can die peacefully.

[Riccits]

But yeah, I agree with you on 1 thing, this discussion can go on forever. I sincerely hope devs do find a way to implement a way for newer people to get these vanities, so that discussions like these can die peacefully.

new ppl just need to collect vantiys of each elite level cap like we all did before, and the ones we have already are really deserved for the plat/time we payed.

[CrimsonTider]

As mentioned in WhoIsThis' thread a while back, if it bothers you so much, make your own games and require anyone who enters to take off his/her vanities if they have any. You DO have the ability to control pvp to your liking.

Oh and so you know, some individuals are using the Founder's Helm instead of the third vanity because 5 dmg/5armor is more beneficial than 1 crit, 5 health, 4 armor. Can I complain when I face the few that have the 5 extra damage that I don't have? I can BUT I don't because I CHOOSE to find a way to beat them and not let some stats get in my way.

Same idea as when I twink and I see the Founder's Helm... I can either find a way around it or quit. Just saying.

[MightyMicah]

@Jay, it might look like a contradiction but it's not. You actually made a logical fallacy. I said "everyone against making it fair has the vanities." That does not mean that everyone who has the vanities is against making it fair. See the difference?

@Crim, why do you keep pointing at me and saying I'm complaining? This thread's not about me. Go read my thread again. I am not complaining. I decided to man up. I also decided to logically discuss a way to make everything, MAINLY (key word) for the newbies.

As far as I can see, no one has logically proven why my idea should not be implemented.

~MM

[JaytB]

As far as I can see, no one has logically proven why my idea should not be implemented.

As far as I can see, nobody has logically proven why your idea should be implemented either. But I'm sure you see it differently.

[CrimsonTider]

I give up. You are taking things too personally.

However, I will tell you why implementing pvp based vanities is not a good idea:

1. Rudeness and rushing is already prevalent. These vanities will only lead to people joining games, quickly killing everyone in sight, then leaving and finding the next game. All so that they can improve kdr, kill count, etc.

2. It is already known that private pvp games are made so people can boost their kills. I PROMISE you, the moment pvp stat based vanities are implemented you will see a dramamtic increase in private games so pwoplw can boost kills. Think I am wrong? Who would have thought people would spend hundreds to get on the current LB's? Exactly. ;)

3. You speak of the unfair advantage of the current vanities due to time spent in game. What about those who have pvped for over a year vs. those beginning or the casual player. Kani alone has 50-60k more kills than most people. Are you gonna ask for the veterans to have their kills wiped? I think not. And these individuals would be immediately entitled to the top vanities.

Am I on the same page now? Do the vanities you want to see implemented seem fair now?

[Samhayne]

Hey guys,

Thade had a pretty good comment about PvP rewards in this thread: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?47176-STS-Can-we-have-a-1v1-map&p=529831&viewfull=1#post529831


Hey all,

I'm now working on a 1 v 1 map for PL.

About PvP rewards. Rewards for PvP are something I'd really like to see in the future once the PvP experience is consistent. Features like PvP matches only starting once preconditions are met (Both teams are full) are key to making PvP a more reliably enjoyable experience. Right now, as you all know PvP can at times be fun or not based on all parties involved playing by the "rules". Until PvP matches have that structure built in, I don't think we can reward players for PvPing well.

We know that there needs to be more (like a matchmaking system, even start to address rushing) to go in to make things more fair to then implement PvP rewards.

[MightyMicah]

@Jaytb, i was assuming the problems lack of a solution was enough to push my idea forward, however you make an excellent point.

@Crim, too personally? O.O no man I'm not taking it personally :( If I come across in any wrong way, just please ignore it. It's probably from internet not being able to display tone of voice and such. I told ya, I don't get offended easily ;)

Anyways, you also made some excellent points however, as I stated before people like Kanital would not have any insane advantage for 2 reasons.

1. Remember the vanity bonus in pvp will be=to that of the pve bonus. Even if Kanital starts out with full set, he can only get so much of an advantage. (the advantage which everyone says "skill" can overcome remember? Not that I agree.) Either way the main concept exists that everyone has a shot at getting the vanities. That is the main reason I made this thread.

2. Even if the idea for the sets switching over from pve to pvp is not implemented, people like kanital would still not have any advantage. It would be a "starting now" kind of thing (as I told Xazic) In other words, right as this is implemented, everyone must achieve the same X ammount of kills added onto their already existing kills. Same for the other ideas I threw out. So if Kanital has 71k and the x ammount is 5k he would need 76k. Where as I have 2.7k I would need 7.7k. Make sense?

@Samhayne thanks Sam I'll read up on that thread in the morning! :)

[protectorofnoobs]

Crim and jay just read my post :)

[AbsolutePally]

I got a degree, that I paid for out of pocket. I studied and sacrficed a lot for it. Now I got the job you wanted. You did not put in hours or obtain credits. You complain about my degree putting me ahead of you. you want to strip me of the degree and gove me your alternative to make the job hunt fair.

How about get on my level? How about spend money on plat, grind for hours, get a piece of the vanity. Then when the new update comes repeat. Get a second piece, have a bonus of your own.
A player that starts today can get it, just play for hours and spend money. Simple right?
Man up. Dont try to delegate and implement something that strips me and benefits you. How selfish and lazy can you be?

[MightyMicah]

@AbsolutePally, first of all calm down. You're flaming this thread and I really don't want it locked.

Second of all I'm gonna show you an analogy of your thinking process:

"I spent tons of money out if my own pocket to organize a team of men to go rob this neighborhood. It took us about a month to accomplish the whole thing. I made 245,000 dollars after that whole effort and now you're complaining because you don't have a job? You want a job so you can make that money? How selfish can you be? If you want money get off your butt and get a team to rob another neighborhood."

Just because you spent alot of time effort and money does not make it right. I can see by your thinking process that you are very conservative and I am as well. However, As long as we are relating it to real life atm let me just say that in real life everyone has a chance at being a Bill Gates, so to speak.

Also this is a game. Your bonus may be entitled to pve, but in pvp you can see in any other game out there you enter pvp on a completely level playing field. Pvp has always been balanced no matter what game you play.

Also calling me I believe it was "lazy and selfish" just isn't right. On top of that you missed the point again. I don't give a crap about myself. If I'm screwed, fine I'll deal with it. I'm only concerned about the next generations. People WILL quit Pl when hitting level cap just for this reason.

Perhaps we should quit this discussion altogether. I feel like people are taking it way too seriously. On top of that I'm not sure if too many people like me now :\

~MM

[Swimmingstar]

I kinda agree that it takes way less time to level with plat and elixirs. I have 50k xp now. I NEVER got a 4x combo. If I did, I could've got 200k xp in that time. I like the ideas of pvp rewards.

[Elitephonix]

I love this idea
And there should be a limit though...Like a Kill cap but ur kills keeps going up but u wont get any Vanity untill the next rise

[AbsolutePally]

@AbsolutePally, first of all calm down. You're flaming this thread and I really don't want it locked.

Second of all I'm gonna show you an analogy of your thinking process:

"I spent tons of money out if my own pocket to organize a team of men to go rob this neighborhood. It took us about a month to accomplish the whole thing. I made 245,000 dollars after that whole effort and now you're complaining because you don't have a job? You want a job so you can make that money? How selfish can you be? If you want money get off your butt and get a team to rob another neighborhood."

Just because you spent alot of time effort and money does not make it right. I can see by your thinking process that you are very conservative and I am as well. However, As long as we are relating it to real life atm let me just say that in real life everyone has a chance at being a Bill Gates, so to speak.

Also this is a game. Your bonus may be entitled to pve, but in pvp you can see in any other game out there you enter pvp on a completely level playing field. Pvp has always been balanced no matter what game you play.

Also calling me I believe it was "lazy and selfish" just isn't right. On top of that you missed the point again. I don't give a crap about myself. If I'm screwed, fine I'll deal with it. I'm only concerned about the next generations. People WILL quit Pl when hitting level cap just for this reason.

Perhaps we should quit this discussion altogether. I feel like people are taking it way too seriously. On top of that I'm not sure if too many people like me now :\

~MM

I did not direct my post to anyone in particular. Hence I did not quote you, so who Is taking it personal?
And comparing to a crime, a dangerous one, only shows how you personally feel. Feelings of unfairness and criminal activity, are you saying that people who buy plat and are hardcore are criminals?
And I am fairly far left, so your assumption of my conservative nature is incorrect.

Will you give me 4000 plat? I mean since that is how much I have used to obtain these items. Devs offered em so I got em. Would you really want to refund me that money I spent? How about the time. For me and thousands of others. If not than please do not suggest anything of the sort.

Bit I will agree that this should not be discussed, it,has been delivered and debated countless ways. lik I said I am all for NEW people getting something, maybe pay plat to be able to start the quest that opens your experience meter to 100+k.
But there is NO way I would be cool with free ways to get it. Pvp kills for an item I spent a couple hundred on? Gimme a break. Sounds like a scam.

[MightyMicah]

Im gonna ignore the first part of your post because you are clearly not listening to me. I'm not calling you a criminal. I was using an analogy to prove the point that hard work/spending money doesn't make it right.

Also, I'm going to say what the devs always say. Spending platinum was your choice. You could have grinded to the top without it. So no I'm not refunding you 4,000 plat because you don't deserve a refund. The only "refund" to be deserved is time. Which is why I said those who already acquired the vanities automatically recieve the pvp vanity set for free.

Ok, what it sounds like you want is a way for noobs to spend platinum and a lot of time to get the vanities just like you did. (that makes it "fair" right?) Once again. The platinum was your choice. I know TONS of people who grinded to the top without 4,000 platinum. The only thing that noobs should have to go through is alot of time. My idea easily allows for alot of time.

What am I missing?

[nomad187]

This argument is old.

If you weren't around for the item (founders helm), or try for the level caps (56, 61, 66 vanity items), then so be it. That time has passed. Accept it, and move on. I'm pretty sure the next cap will bring an updated help, or another vanity piece to replace whats out there now. Stop complaining on the forums. PM the devs.

If you have the items, and use them in pvp, don't brag about skill. Obviously, you feel the need to have extra stats to compensate for something else.

I like the idea suggested above. Eliminate the bonus stats on all vanities in the pvp and ctf areas. Then only gear and skill seperate the players.

That would solve the problems. However, it was pointed out that then people wouldn't spend the plat to rush for cap vanity. If that's true, then again, complain to the devs. It's their business model allowing such an blatanant abuse of this advantage. If I have an advantage, I'm using it. If you didn't work for the advantage, or weren't around for it. Suck it up. No one here can do anything but the devs. Again, PM them.

Rant over

[AbsolutePally]

Well good luck! And get well soon.

[MightyMicah]

Ok guys ok I will stop tryina argue, obviously no one's listening anyways...thanks for taking the time to comment and share your thoughts I appreciate it.

@Nomad you make excellant points, cheers mate. (btw I hope you weren't referring to me complaining. I hate it when people call me a complainer because it puts focus on "me me me" and that is certainly NOT what this thread is all about)

One last @AbsolutePally LOL

[nomad187]

Ok guys ok I will stop tryina argue, obviously no one's listening anyways...thanks for taking the time to comment and share your thoughts I appreciate it.

@Nomad you make excellant points, cheers mate. (btw I hope you weren't referring to me complaining. I hate it when people call me a complainer because it puts focus on "me me me" and that is certainly NOT what this thread is all about)

One last @AbsolutePally LOL

Not referring to you. It's meant to everyone complaining. The argument/discussion is old.

[MightyMicah]

Gotcha