To devs, if they see it : engis and balance

[Malerian]

I've seen this topic (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?46542-bug-with-pvp), and more importantly JSL's message.

I wanted to make sure what he said about balance is true. Because, if so, sl pvp will be played by two classes. Well, played and won with a fair chance.
Why did healing got scaled down so much ?
How can that be called balance, when engis had their unique skills nerfed to almost nothing, while ops and comms have their skills working fine. Now, comms' vigor and ops' inner focus heal for as much as empathy :
empathy maxed heals around 70hp per cast (23-24 per tick),
vigor heals 75hp per cast when maxed (+15hp/s), not counting natural regen : it's as efficient and about twice as fast
inner focus heals for 80 hp for its whole duration (+8hp/s) : about as efficient

So, three classes' heals are about equals. No problem with that.

Although, coms and ops other skills give them much more stats buff (ops have precision and blur, though the latter is maybe somewhat less often used ; comms have increase mass and growing rage), and far higher damage than engi.
How can devs call that balance ?
If a dev see it, could you explain it ? is it really intented or will it be corrected in a next update ?

Admittedly, i don't know comms and ops way of playing pvp, as my only high level is engi, so if some who play the three could comment on the differences between the classes, that will help a lot.

[javier995]

let me be real simple

Engi is support, so no damage skills that are effective

Coms are tanking and they have a good set of skills

Ops are all about single targeting so they can take something down quick


Since coms and ops are meant for 1v1 battles (for mobs and bosses) they do fairly well in 1v1 pvp. Engis on the other hand, aren't for tanking or solo targeting, they're just for support so they're not meant for 1v1 pvp. Engis are better in pvp if its 2+ engis fighting. Don't get me wrong tho, some engis are good pvpers.


Tbh it doesn't matte what class, the skill is in the player and how well he knows how to use his build.



BTW i thought JSL was a girl lol

[Malerian]

I don't know whether it's a he or a she.

I know right engis are supposed to be support- far more than damage-oriented, but with the way heals work now, we aren't even of any use as support. Protection adds 60 armor when maxed, which doesn'nt change much anything to the damage a comm recieve even without increase mass, and ops aren't supposed to tank either, but they still take less damage than us because they have higher crit and dps, therefore killing engis before they can do real damage. And empathy, as i already stated, doesn't heal more than comm and op equivalent skill, and sometimes even less because one tick takes 3 seconds.
I'm not asking that it gets upped so much that we become unkillable, i just would like it gets balanced out so that we still get better healing than comm and op to mitigate their damage.

Save for healing, i'm just fine with the way engis work.

[Zombiemurder]

Well with an engi I've learned they're meant to be in the back so have ur com and op up front and enfis in back to heal rev etc. But many ppl dont wanna have good strategy they just wanna win whether it's pvp or pve most ppl just wanna finish not enjoy it so all the enfis head up front and die then everyone says they arnt good pvpers which is sometimes and sometimes not I've had 3 enfis pwn 2 commandos higher than our level bit I've also had me vs. An op which means I lost cause they can kill quick each of the classes have their ups and downs I personally like veins either a com or engi never tried op yet would've strews an op but they die a lot at the begging of the game so I didn't probaly gonna start an op soon so I can know all powers of the classes and their weaknesses

[Blind]

Completely agree with Mal.

Engineers suck so bad that i don't even consider them worthy of killing.

Sure there are some individuals in the endgame that manage to adapt and do something. But still...engineers suck and need to get fixed.

[Kaytar]

Completely agree with Mal.

Engineers suck so bad that i don't even consider them worthy of killing.

Sure there are some individuals in the endgame that manage to adapt and do something. But still...engineers suck and need to get fixed.please take into consideration that this can offend a few people, inluding me. Some engineers pwn so watch your back :)

[Malerian]

Exactly, some engis are not too bad in pvp, but it takes a lot of skill with the class, while a com can only be taken down if he's not playing properly, without using his/her skills, or not paying attention. An op probably requires a bit more because of their low health and armor, but they can make it with their two crowd control skills (if the flames' stun is to be be counted within).

[akfury]

Completely agree with Mal.

Engineers suck so bad that i don't even consider them worthy of killing.

Sure there are some individuals in the endgame that manage to adapt and do something. But still...engineers suck and need to get fixed.
i took that personal you said engineers suck jk but i agree engineers are nerfed, im a decent engineer but still dont even come close to winning a 1 v 1 with a op or comm

[PL Playa]

I may not have read all these cause I'm kinda tired, but I've done fine with my engi. As of now my *fairly obtained* kd is about 28/7 so u gotta have a good build or something, maybe it was the people I PvP against idk

Just my 2 credits ;)

[Swimmingstar]

I got a good positive kd on my eng. Yes engineers are nerfed. I don't think it seems balanced either. Even though I might make everything look easy with my armor. It still requires skill to beat coms and ops. Lots of strategies too. When my health runs low I have to start kiting. But coms and ops just stay in one place and if op and com heal is better than eng. Then that's not right. I thought the eng was supposed to have healing skills, and AoE damage. Maybe it's because I'm from PL where mages can own, but I agree that engineers are underpowered. Many people don't like to play them. :(

[LelouchX]

there are plenty of good engis, and i'm fine with the fact that their empathy is scaled down for PvP. My problem is the transference glitch, which devs have stated they are aware of in numerous threads and are working on. beta is a testing phase, if you are unhappy wit engis in PvP, don't use them in PvP until they are fixed. That's really the only thing to say about it anymore. I'm a die hard engi and i won't go near PvP wit my engi until it's fixed. Alternative:
- use an alt for PvP, ops and coms do well there, use one of them.
- not everyone has multiple end game toons, so make a twink for PvP. 5 plat is easy to get even through free offers. That's all it takes to get a new toon, and you will be at an advantage since you use your funds from your main toon to get yourself some nice gear.

i've done my fair share of complaining about engi PvP on these forums. the fact stands that it will get fixed when it gets fixed. after the first week of PvP beta, i haven't seen any comments or threads that raised issues that haven't already been commented on by devs. having thread after thread that all say the same thing only makes more threads that devs spend their time on posting links to old threads that raise the same issue. tbh, it doesn't really accomplish anything. devs are aware of the amount of people displeased with engi PvP. i've been PvPing on my twink op waiting for the fixes, and it took me a day to get him to a level i was happy PvPing on. it occupies my time when i need a break from grinding, try it out.

[hawshaq69]

I have one thing to say, is it just me or is it that everytime someone complains there is a prob with com or op it gets fixed almost instantly.. But when it comes to engi the devs just dont care simple as that they have made it the hardest class for pvp, why?? I dont know and there is no reason why they shouldve ever altered the engi, i am also a die hard engi player and this will not slow me down im still there pvp or not, we can still do it even when the odds are against us, thanks devs....

[WhoIsThis]

A long time ago I wrote a thread about Engineers being underpowered back in the beta era. It appears to have been largely ignored.

As it stands, engineers are hopeless in 1v1 fights barring a buff of some sort.

[Swimmingstar]

there are plenty of good engis, and i'm fine with the fact that their empathy is scaled down for PvP. My problem is the transference glitch, which devs have stated they are aware of in numerous threads and are working on. beta is a testing phase, if you are unhappy wit engis in PvP, don't use them in PvP until they are fixed. That's really the only thing to say about it anymore. I'm a die hard engi and i won't go near PvP wit my engi until it's fixed. Alternative:
- use an alt for PvP, ops and coms do well there, use one of them.
- not everyone has multiple end game toons, so make a twink for PvP. 5 plat is easy to get even through free offers. That's all it takes to get a new toon, and you will be at an advantage since you use your funds from your main toon to get yourself some nice gear.

i've done my fair share of complaining about engi PvP on these forums. the fact stands that it will get fixed when it gets fixed. after the first week of PvP beta, i haven't seen any comments or threads that raised issues that haven't already been commented on by devs. having thread after thread that all say the same thing only makes more threads that devs spend their time on posting links to old threads that raise the same issue. tbh, it doesn't really accomplish anything. devs are aware of the amount of people displeased with engi PvP. i've been PvPing on my twink op waiting for the fixes, and it took me a day to get him to a level i was happy PvPing on. it occupies my time when i need a break from grinding, try it out.

PvP is still in beta? And once I level up, I find that it is harder to win in PvP.

[LelouchX]

PvP is still in beta? And once I level up, I find that it is harder to win in PvP.
SL PvP is. You should find it harder to win in PvP as an engi, which is while I don't use eyeofwarrior for PvP anymore. I'l revisit it once transference is fixed..... maybe. But that depends on how much fun I keep having on GinFiend.

[Fuzzywig]

Yeah I noticed that healing is closer to useless in pvp...engi pvp at lvl 15 is not really much fun because nearly all of the attacks are team buffs and no knockback/slowdown attacks (the stun only works until you hit the stunned enemy) so I usually stick with my op

[Sryyoulose]

Pvp at 15 isn't worth it if your new to SL like me! Level up! Do some max pking then make twinks'

[Thade]

To his point at the top. Empathy is a group heal, and has a much faster refresh than the com/op self heals. Balance is done with the big picture in mind, not the narrow scenario set forth above.

If spec out of Transference in my experience Engineers are viable right now. Post fix, they might even be slightly over powered in 3 v 3 matches. All of us will have to spend a few days playing post update to decide.

Based on forum feedback and my own experience I feel all three classes have a definite place in PvP.

[Ebalere]

To his point at the top. Empathy is a group heal, and has a much faster refresh than the com/op self heals. Balance is done with the big picture in mind, not the narrow scenario set forth above.

If spec out of Transference in my experience Engineers are viable right now. Post fix, they might even be slightly over powered in 3 v 3 matches. All of us will have to spend a few days playing post update to decide.

Based on forum feedback and my own experience I feel all three classes have a definite place in PvP.

Engi's are awesome in 3v3 ffa and ctf, they definately have their place in group battles with rez and empathy, protect, etc.. but 1v1, Engi's are pretty much a cakewalk. Only Bene has beaten me consistently, but he's a beast engi. I think Newt could be that beasty too :)

[Cowgirl]

@Thade Transference heals your opponents. That's like drain in PL healing your opponent. The one skill we need to work most fails.

[Thade]

@Cowgirl this is fixed in the next client update. Hence the post fix comment above.