The trend of market value manipulation

[Bundlos]

Hi,

Of late I have been noticing same merchants using multiple accounts to manipulate trending items. It's either that or they make their friends or people who they are in cahoots with drop fake offers to permanently manipulate the market value of X Item (or) they themselves post a fake offer and close the thread stating that it is sold to that fake offer and then bring up the same item for sale after a period of time lapse.

It's a choice to overpay for something while making a purchase, one overprice purchase does not always make it the norm that the X item bought is valued at that much. I'll give you an example: Before armor zhulong came out in store some bought it for 70-100m despite knowing that the price would drop significantly once it comes to store (this is overpayment, a self-made choice).

On the other hand we have the people who control the game market, the manipulators who employ the above-mentioned tactics to permanently alter the valuation of stuff to their advantage. Now, as I see it, the root of the problem starts from forums. Seller makes a thread, fakes it, then the thread is there to stay and unsuspecting people fall for it, and that faked amount becomes the norm. Let's classify buyer into two types- the skeptics, and the believers. The skeptics I would say, they do their homework, have an overall idea of the market and often get ganged upon when they call someone out for their manipulation. The unsuspecting believers are the ones who will fall for just about anything they see, then these people also lead others (friends/guildies) to believe the same in their line of communication and that's how an X-price becomes a norm more often than not (I don't blame you if you are the latter, it's only human nature).

Traders market is anyway not a highly monitored place unless someone gets called out or reported and action is taken against them nor can I expect it to be monitored because there are lots of things going on there all the time. I've seen many a times people replying to posts "price manipulation is a ban-able offense" and I went over the ToS, it does not explicitly mention that it is, although it does affect the in-game market significantly. I asked myself this question before making this thread- what purpose does having multiple forum accounts serve? The only thing I could come up with is anonymity, be it for trash talking with people or just for manipulation. I don't see how it serves any useful purpose.

So, I have a few questions for the devs:
1. Where does such action stand according to you all? Would you say it an offense?
2. Third party apps such as Tapatalk at least has a serial number that helps identify a same user of multiple accounts. Can we get an identifier for multiple account users who use forums from other platforms? If nothing else, it will at least keep people from getting played.

Consider this thread as an alert to buyers, a rant, or whatever you want to call it. I'll leave on the note that seeing isn't believing.

[TheBlairWitch]

That might be why so many bots in the game.

[lilweezy]

there are no "real prices." it's all based on supply and demand so the true price should be based on what the last buyer was willing to pay for it. i dont mind overpaying a few million over market price for items that i need immediately or really want.

[Mythocrisis]

How is this a ban-able offense?
It is not because:
1.)It is completely on the buyer to do the homework to offer and buy the item for a set amount of gold whether normal or overpriced.

2.) STS isn't setting fixed prices for each item they are releasing so this tells us that this is a essential mechanism of the game.

3.)Furthur, the new awakening system gives different awakens in different probabilities..
So the setting of prices is uncertain and player based infused with the amount of gold spent on awaken gems of seller also.
This is also a mechanism bought in by STS which tells us that this is utter bs about fixed range of prices or else being a ban-able offense.

4.)Moreover many sellers will pay different sums of gold to buy same item...this brings a new dimension to this game which makes it more engaging.
This is a culmination of a few factors like :
A.)how badly the buyer needs the item.
B.)how rich the buyer is.how much spare gold he got.
C.)For a merch that he knows he can sell for even more.
..
Do not label the seller alone as guilty as per ops post..buyers are also the future sellers.

The only people I can see complaining on this topic are the ones who just ask for prices but don't buy but shout overprice and go to lengths to post in media about this asking for bans.(facepalm)

Do not worry..If you think it's overprice ,don't buy there will be a buyer for that price...or...
The seller will reduce his expectation on what he can get out of the item..

But the time you mentioned logging in from different accounts and marketing the same item and soliciting wrong offers from multiple devices at same time seems to be a fraud...
Other than this..

Nothing of this closely even sums to being a ban-able offense except for the wannabe buyers who rant about overprice and spouting that it's a ban-able offense in the forums and in game.

[Xyv.io]

there are no "real prices." it's all based on supply and demand so the true price should be based on what the last buyer was willing to pay for it. i dont mind overpaying a few million over market price for items that i need immediately or really want.
True.

11chars

[Archugejackmen]

I very much agree with what Bundlos has gone on about (for the most part). However, some part of price manipulation also comes from developers. (However, do take note that under ToS of Arcane Legends, developers own the right to change the price/proc/stats of an item without informing the game prior.) When they change the proc of an item, i.e : Skratch/Skull-dozer/Duggar , or announce the arrival of an event i.e : Awakening event, these announcements can cause the value of certain items to rise/drop significantly. (In this instance, new 76 Arcanes rose in price, elite awakening gem kits rose, while normal awakening gems saw a huge drop in price and demand.) This reply isn’t to push the blame of price market manipulation to the developers, (no, not at all), but simply to inform all Arlorians that the developers may do as they please, since they technically own the game, and ask for Arlorians to respect their decisions.
On the other hand, price manipulators, since you’ve mentioned that they do not directly break any ToS of AL (i’m taking this bit of information from Bundlos), technically what they’re doing is allowed. (Although it’s scummy and affects the game experience for everyone else). Therefore, while developers may do as they deem fit, I too would like a way of implementing a system of detecting people who are manipulating prices with multiple devices from a single/other devices.
Thanks for reading, and feel free to criticise any points I’ve added on.

[MasterSan]

Disclaimer: it only works if the player says the ign of his/her alt. twink on the same account.

Here is a basic trick I've myself found out for knowing if the price/ current offer is being faked by the seller or no.

Simply put the ign of the seller in the ignore list.
Then try adding the name mentioned by the seller for the current offer he/she got from.

The name shall either be added or it would say, the name already exists in the ignore list.

Ignoring a player basically ignores all the alternate characters a player has, giving him no chance to stalk you or disturb you via his alt.

It would work only upto certain extent. Though there are many flaws in this tip, Its worth trying, because i have caught many players using this simple method, whom later became toxic and abusive.

Hope it helps,

Peace.

[Anil LK Joseph]

It happens in real life too.


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[Sherenah]

Disclaimer: it only works if the player says the ign of his/her alt. twink on the same account.

Here is a basic trick I've myself found out for knowing if the price/ current offer is being faked by the seller or no.

Simply put the ign of the seller in the ignore list.
Then try adding the name mentioned by the seller for the current offer he/she got from.

The name shall either be added or it would say, the name already exists in the ignore list.

Ignoring a player basically ignores all the alternate characters a player has, giving him no chance to stalk you or disturb you via his alt.

It would work only upto certain extent. Though there are many flaws in this tip, Its worth trying, because i have caught many players using this simple method, whom later became toxic and abusive.

Hope it helps,

Peace.That's an idea Yea but ppl coukd make a new guest acc whenever they want and fake it too.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk

[Encryptions]

I should make a yt vid on how to be safe from these people who make fake c/o's.

[MasterSan]

Well yea.. provide lots of tips.

[anjin]

I know someone using alt to fake c/o he's IGN is Jeuxheinze and Mccook same person so beware to that guy

[arcanefid]

I think making multiple accounts for the purpose of making fake offers and trying to manipulate people in to overpaying for your item should be bannable, at least a forum ban. However, I'm not expecting STS to keep a close eye on Trader's Market because there are probably more than 50 new threads daily and they would probably need a guy that specifically monitors only that part of the forum.

[Smellybumm]

This whole thread seems like a whole lotta bologna [emoji1782] it’s usually people who want the items for cheaper prices or wanna merch but Someone give them a offer higher then there’s they get mad and say fake offers I agree to check it the current offer is from same acc that’s scummy but any other way is not provable and makes zero sense if I don’t post any of the ppl who give me offers then all my current offers can be deemed fake? Come on now lmao [emoji23][emoji1787][emoji1787]


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[Encryptions]

Here is the video; I forgot to mention another way to spot them is if you have the same item and they are trying to sell it super high so you offer to sell it to them for a lot less and they decline to buy yours even though you want 2m for the item and they want 7m. I do this so much to people, and they decline me. I try to sell them the same item but super "cheap".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86fY_skF8ts

[Smellybumm]

Here is the video; I forgot to mention another way to spot them is if you have the same item and they are trying to sell it super high so you offer to sell it to them for a lot less and they decline to buy yours even though you want 2m for the item and they want 7m. I do this so much to people, and they decline me. I try to sell them the same item but super "cheap".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86fY_skF8ts

This here is a great video once again from encryptions touched base on ALL subjects and aspects of this topic I think we should just end the forum on this note because any questions you have directed to this topic is found in said video [emoji1531]


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[Bundlos]

This here is a great video once again from encryptions touched base on ALL subjects and aspects of this topic I think we should just end the forum on this note because any questions you have directed to this topic is found in said video [emoji1531]


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My questions were directed to the devs and I'm not new to the tips. And why should it end? Or do I smell insecurity here ;)

[Smellybumm]

My questions were directed to the devs and I'm not new to the tips. And why should it end? Or do I smell insecurity here ;)

I just feel anymore digging into this is all senseless non provable speech encryptions covered literally everything that can be done to help make sure the offer is a real c/o and what are you trying to say about insecurity’s wanna be specific or are we gonna keep beating around the bush [emoji41] also if we leave it here or not it’s still up to the Dev weather or not they will even reply to this seeing if it meaningful to do so or a waste of time [emoji2367]


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[arcanefid]

I just feel anymore digging into this is all senseless non provable speech encryptions covered literally everything that can be done to help make sure the offer is a real c/o and what are you trying to say about insecurity’s wanna be specific or are we gonna keep beating around the bush [emoji41] also if we leave it here or not it’s still up to the Dev weather or not they will even reply to this seeing if it meaningful to do so or a waste of time [emoji2367]


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Imagine being against an obvious improvement of quality of life. The only reason why it's not done is because it's too much work, there's not a single positive thing about it.

I think you should re-read the OP.

[Smellybumm]

Imagine being against an obvious improvement of quality of life. The only reason why it's not done is because it's too much work, there's not a single positive thing about it.

I think you should re-read the OP.

I read it just fine the first time and like I said how are you gonna stop friends from “manipulating” prices? If I’m a guild master and I tell officers to bump my thread with good offers for a expensive new item how is that supposed to be stopped? Your right it’s to much work and it’s a obvious waste of time I could understand if there was set prices for the items but the market always varies and who said I was against it? Like I said the responses after mine are just Nonsense speech Encryptions covered everything in the video posted but when u comes to fourms that’s completely out of their hands there supposed to have some random guy watching fourms 24/7 to make sure prices aren’t being manipulated? What kinda nonsense is that? Big waste of time especially since people can just list items that are not commonly in auc for high prices and some person who really wants it decides to offer them little lower then what is currently in auc for? All nonsense speech like I said typing this was a huge waste of time I think you should re read op post and see all the flaws in what he is asking for tell me how much sense it really makes


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[Shocan]

I read it just fine the first time and like I said how are you gonna stop friends from “manipulating” prices? If I’m a guild master and I tell officers to bump my thread with good offers for a expensive new item how is that supposed to be stopped? Your right it’s to much work and it’s a obvious waste of time I could understand if there was set prices for the items but the market always varies and who said I was against it? Like I said the responses after mine are just Nonsense speech Encryptions covered everything in the video posted but when u comes to fourms that’s completely out of their hands there supposed to have some random guy watching fourms 24/7 to make sure prices aren’t being manipulated? What kinda nonsense is that? Big waste of time especially since people can just list items that are not commonly in auc for high prices and some person who really wants it decides to offer them little lower then what is currently in auc for? All nonsense speech like I said typing this was a huge waste of time I think you should re read op post and see all the flaws in what he is asking for tell me how much sense it really makes


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I agree 100%, it should stop. Easiest way to make it stop is to just stop replying, and please don't take that with salt, I prefer pepper. You don't have to retort everything someone says, even though I, like just about everyone, feel the need to. If you really think all that needs to be said has been said then stop talking. Again, literally no salt, just replying to the last person to say something, you're not at all a target and should find no reason to pull something out against me, take the cake or don't, you needn't throw it on the ground.
Cheers!

[Smellybumm]

I agree 100%, it should stop. Easiest way to make it stop is to just stop replying, and please don't take that with salt, I prefer pepper. You don't have to retort everything someone says, even though I, like just about everyone, feel the need to. If you really think all that needs to be said has been said then stop talking. Again, literally no salt, just replying to the last person to say something, you're not at all a target and should find no reason to pull something out against me, take the cake or don't, you needn't throw it on the ground.
Cheers!
With that logic you shouldn’t even have replied to me but guess what I get the last reply around here BOY so nice typing but take this with all the salt in the ocean don’t reply [emoji41]


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[Pyramid Head]

Any sort of price manipulation in-game or in-forum is a bannable offense. If you write a detailed email with facts to support about the trend and people involved in it then they do investigate on it and if substantial evidence is found then the players get banned.

Investigation takes long time but support does sincerely looks into it.

[Bundlos]

I read it just fine the first time and like I said how are you gonna stop friends from “manipulating” prices? If I’m a guild master and I tell officers to bump my thread with good offers for a expensive new item how is that supposed to be stopped? Your right it’s to much work and it’s a obvious waste of time I could understand if there was set prices for the items but the market always varies and who said I was against it? Like I said the responses after mine are just Nonsense speech Encryptions covered everything in the video posted but when u comes to fourms that’s completely out of their hands there supposed to have some random guy watching fourms 24/7 to make sure prices aren’t being manipulated? What kinda nonsense is that? Big waste of time especially since people can just list items that are not commonly in auc for high prices and some person who really wants it decides to offer them little lower then what is currently in auc for? All nonsense speech like I said typing this was a huge waste of time I think you should re read op post and see all the flaws in what he is asking for tell me how much sense it really makes


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The only person spouting nonsense is you. Everybody else has been civil about their responses. And I clearly don't understand how having identifiers for multiple account holders (a QoL upgrade) is nonsense because that is what the thread is about. You are derailing the content to something else entirely. I did not ask anyone to sit and monitor traders market. If you want to create drama take it elsewhere.

[Smellybumm]

The only person spouting nonsense is you. Everybody else has been civil about their responses. And I clearly don't understand how having identifiers for multiple account holders (a QoL upgrade) is nonsense because that is what the thread if about. You are derailing the content to something else entirely. I did not ask anyone to sit and monitor traders market. If you want to create drama take it elsewhere.

Identifying multiple account holders is gonna do what? That’s not gonna stop anything in reality and also it takes way to much work for something like that to even be done why waste time being able to identify multiple accounts holders when you can just make a new account and do the exact same thing? Like I said makes no sense just all nonsense talk the scenarios I provided makes perfect sense why they would not even work follow EncryptionsAL rules and you will be fine but after that there’s nothing you can do to stop this type of “manipulation” from happening its out of there hands so this multiple account identifying system is completely useless in the end tell me exactly where I am wrong at?


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[arcanefid]

Identifying multiple account holders is gonna do what? That’s not gonna stop anything in reality and also it takes way to much work for something like that to even be done why waste time being able to identify multiple accounts holders when you can just make a new account and do the exact same thing? Like I said makes no sense just all nonsense talk the scenarios I provided makes perfect sense why they would not even work follow EncryptionsAL rules and you will be fine but after that there’s nothing you can do to stop this type of “manipulation” from happening its out of there hands so this multiple account identifying system is completely useless in the end tell me exactly where I am wrong at?


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I’m sure we all agreed that it’s too much work, but that doesn’t mean that a GM should ask the officers to make fake offers on their thread in order to try and get a better deal. I’m not sure why you’re being so mad about this?

[Shimada]

Forum users can use either a. Tapatalk via device, b. Chrome via PC/Laptop.

- Simply monitoring the serial number in tapatalk is not gonna work.
- Monitoring the IP addresses of each forum user is not gonna work since forum user can use different PC in many places.

There's no doubt your intention to this thread is for the betterment of the game, however it's not possible to implement this validation. I'm not even gonna start on specific person to monitor since as what I'm saying is just not possible to do this validation.

What we can do so far is to educate ourselves as much as we can , it's just like IRL dude.

[Smellybumm]

Forum users can use either a. Tapatalk via device, b. Chrome via PC/Laptop.

- Simply monitoring the serial number in tapatalk is not gonna work.
- Monitoring the IP addresses of each forum user is not gonna work since forum user can use different PC in many places.

There's no doubt your intention to this thread is for the betterment of the game, however it's not possible to implement this validation. I'm not even gonna start on specific person to monitor since as what I'm saying is just not possible to do this validation.

What we can do so far is to educate ourselves as much as we can , it's just like IRL dude.

Basically what I said but this guy sound WAY more educated I love it [emoji41]


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[Limsi]

Heppens irl

[Bundlos]

Heppens irl

A lot of things happen irl. Doesn't mean it is justified

[Limsi]

A lot of things happen irl. Doesn't mean it is justified

And it does not have to be. Human dynamics affecting the market will be reflected regardless of any medium. 5 years ago, we had threads like this and no one has placed a conscious effort to put a cease to something as trivial as this. People have the inclination to do anything to win regardless of the method - which definitely can include unethical practices.

In a utopia, the masses dictate how much a certain item should cost, but then again that's just being the idealist me.

[Bundlos]

And it does not have to be. Human dynamics affecting the market will be reflected regardless of any medium. 5 years ago, we had threads like this and no one has placed a conscious effort to put a cease to something as trivial as this. People have the inclination to do anything to win regardless of the method - which definitely can include unethical practices.

In a utopia, the masses dictate how much a certain item should cost, but then again that's just being the idealist me.

When you say that in a utopia the masses dictate how much a certain item should cost you are contradicting my opening post which is pertaining to the MINORITY con-men (if you would call it so), who manipulate market value using unethical means.

Even if nothing is done about this, it generated awareness for the people who were unaware about it and I'm okay with just that if nothing else. Thanks for the free bumps though! :vwink: Keep bumping awaaaayyy

[lilweezy]

When you say that in a utopia the masses dictate how much a certain item should cost you are contradicting my opening post which is pertaining to the MINORITY con-men (if you would call it so), who manipulate market value using unethical means.

Even if nothing is done about this, it generated awareness for the people who were unaware about it and I'm okay with just that if nothing else. Thanks for the free bumps though! :vwink: Keep bumping awaaaayyy

It's all in your imagination. If there is manipulation it probably only applies to those overpriced silly vanities anyway. Lesser items aren't even worth the time like people who are selling arcane shards for 3m now are being accused of over-pricing. For only a difference of 1m to 1.5m people who need it asap would easily pay the premium without hesitating. I overpay for cheap items that I need all the time and its not a big deal. Why would someone sell to an entitled cheapass when all it takes is one person to pay for their asking price?

[saiyangodgoku]

I’ve been on this game since 2013 even though I did quit a couple of times over the years I can tell you that the game has always been like this the player makes the prices of the eggs, gear , elix , etc.. prices go up and down that’s just the way the game is there’s nothing the devs can do I personally don’t see it as a problem it’s just apart of the grind when playing the game there’s a lot of pets but I’ll use sns as an example when it first came it was very rare only LB runners had so it went for about 90-100m that was even a lot back then at least to me it was then more flood the game and now it’s like 4m


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[Bundlos]

It's all in your imagination. If there is manipulation it probably only applies to those overpriced silly vanities anyway. Lesser items aren't even worth the time like people who are selling arcane shards for 3m now are being accused of over-pricing. For only a difference of 1m to 1.5m people who need it asap would easily pay the premium without hesitating. I overpay for cheap items that I need all the time and its not a big deal. Why would someone sell to an entitled cheapass when all it takes is one person to pay for their asking price?

If it's my imagination explain me this:

Few weeks back there was a 205gl ebon daggers for sale. The thread was closed sold with an offer of 100m+ebon daggers with bad awakes. The seller was selling the same thing again after closing the thread. The seller confessed it was the same item and mind you it's not a cheap *** item. Still want to call it my imagination?

You mentioned earlier as well that one sale should be the reference point for the next. But if the reference point itself is a fake it alters the value for it permanently. I sealed my bugface deal for 35m, so how come buyers who contacted me to buy it later were under the impression that it is 100m+, clearly someone was feeding them the wrong information. Is it still my imagination? Or do you want me to go on? Because I can do this all day

[lilweezy]

only a selected number of players can afford the 205gl daggers and only a handful are willing to buy them. chances are that these players are veterans who already know better and are unlikely to fall for price manipulation. if they can afford it and really want it they will overpay because these type of rare awakes do not have a set value. these are items are pretty much one of a kind. in the case of the person closing a thread and then reposting it, they do tend to get irritating but there's nothing we can do about that. their threads do stand out but people eventually avoid buying from them anyway. you can complain all day like you say but i suggest you do something productive instead because nothing is going to change.

[Bundlos]

@lilweezy I'm backing up my argument with facts unlike your offensive nonsense for which you can't provide any facts to prove your point. Since you call it "MY IMAGINATION" I make my case. Take it or leave it. You don't run this game so don't behave like you own it and know what's good or what's worthless, move on.


Note:
Any further posts which attempt to derail the thread, create drama, throw shade because their insecurities got triggered because of my opening post, won't be receiving any responses

[Shimada]

I do agree with some of the points mentioned by lilweezy (https://www.spacetimestudios.com/member.php?75638-lilweezy) , the set example of 205gl is quite unique . Common awake items are 100gl - 125gl arcane items ranging from 60 - 70m. But for 205gl the seller could set the market price, since these awake is quite rare. I can offer as much as I could for how much gold as I have , but once it's beyond my gold then I won't buy it. I will know if the seller re-posted it because the awakes is quite similar to the previous one.

But then again, if you're the buyer you should also limit yourself to as how much gold you can offer for these particular item.

[lilweezy]

@lilweezy I'm backing up my argument with facts unlike your offensive nonsense for which you can't provide any facts to prove your point. Since you call it "MY IMAGINATION" I make my case. Take it or leave it. You don't run this game so don't behave like you own it and know what's good or what's worthless, move on.


Note:
Any further posts which attempt to derail the thread, create drama, throw shade because of insecurities triggered, won't be receiving any responses

LOL WTF? you sound like a sensitive little brat. what did i even say to trigger you? are you having a bad day at school?

[saiyangodgoku]

Buying skull btw lol


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[Remiem]

Hey guys. Thanks so much for this thread and letting us know how you feel about this issue. To clear things up, the short answer is yes--this can be bannable. One of the biggest rules in Arcane Legends is that if you are intentionally ruining the game experience for other players, or manipulating systems in a way they should not be used, we will take action. Using alts in the forums and/or in game to artificially inflate an item's price falls into this category and is NOT okay.

Please report anyone you suspect of this behavior to support@spacetimestudios.com or report the post in the forums using the "Report Post" button.