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View Full Version : Skipping bosses? You're missing out!



Fusionstrike
02-15-2012, 05:50 PM
I want to address the common practice of parties skipping bosses and why that strategy costs more than you think. I'm speaking of the practice of a party doing runs "for xp" and clearing all the way to the boss and then leaving the zone to start over rather than clearing the boss.

The conventional wisdom is that boss fights take too long relative to the amount of xp earned, so if you're trying to optimize the amount of xp gathered, you're always better served to concentrate only on clearing normal mobs as quickly as possible. While this is technically true, I'd like to point out what you're missing out on when you use this strategy. If you're truly only interested in xp and nothing else, then you may as well stop reading here.

For everyone else who has at least a passing interest in earning money and getting good item drops (that should be most of us on PL), I'm going to tell you why you really ought to be fighting the bosses rather than skipping them. To do that, though, we first have to examine the value of clearing bosses and the strategy you need to use to make this effort work for you.

The value in killing a boss is that it is the only way to get pink (legendary) drops of the highest value. (They may also be valuable for quest purposes, but that's not relevant for this discussion.) The problem with pinks is, well, their drop rate is very low. If you do get one, though, it's valuable, either to use directly or to sell. So what's the best strategy to get them if they only show up very rarely? To answer that question, let's examine another game with very rare but valuable payouts: video poker.

Professional video poker players (yes, there is such a thing) play the game for one reason only: the payout for a royal flush. Typically, a royal flush pays out at many thousands of times the bet, making it extremely attractive. It's a very rare payout, but not so rare that you won't ever get one if you play enough hands. As a result, professional players aim for the royal flush with every hand that has a chance at it. Even if they could go for a different hand with a smaller payout but better odds, they always shoot for the royal flush. Why? Because the best (and really only) way to get this magic hand is to try for it as many times as possible, knowing that eventually that long-odds hand will show up.

Getting pink drops in PL is exactly the same: it's high payout for a rare but not impossibly rare event. Even "bad" pinks from endgame levels can be sold for a few thousand or tens of thousands. And the really valuable pinks go for hundreds of thousands or even millions.

Now let's apply this information back to my original point. You're in a party. You've done all the work to reach the boss going for xp. The cost to try for a pink drop is low: a minute or two of combat with your party to clear the boss. Now is the perfect time to use what you just learned. You can invest the relatively small amount of extra effort to roll the dice on the boss drop, knowing that if you do this consistently you're maximizing your chances and you'll eventually see that big payout happen. The cost is low enough that even though most tries will fail, a single success will make up for it all.

What's that you say? You're on a 4x elixir so you don't have time to do the boss? Actually, this is the perfect time to clear the boss and take your chances on a jackpot drop. Think about it this way: you're in a position to clear the boss even faster than usual, making the cost even cheaper. And if you're with a whole party of 4x users, you can clear the boss in no time. There's never been a better, cheaper time get your drop chance in. It'll probably take you under a minute to blast through the boss anyway, so it's not like you're taking a fatal hit to xp efficiency. And if you do get that big drop, you'll make plenty of money to validate the small amount of extra effort the boss clearing strategy has cost you during your runs.

In conclusion, I want to make sure everyone considers the cost/benefit trade-off the next time they do all that work to reach a boss only to turn aside. For a little more effort you can set yourself up for success with a chance at a far greater payout, a reward you'll never get if you always skip out. So think like a pro and take down the bosses when you can. It's the smart way to play.

Late
02-15-2012, 06:02 PM
The grind to 66 is 100k and people who want the vanity armor must get there ASAP

ghost.mw
02-15-2012, 06:05 PM
that's a well done writing, good work.

Fao
02-15-2012, 06:06 PM
This is so true, I did this when I was L51+ at Sewers and wish I had killed the bosses, I am now not as wealthy as I should be!

Mothwing
02-15-2012, 06:32 PM
I'm confused. At the start you said:
I'm speaking of the practice of a party doing runs "for xp" and clearing all the way to the boss and then leaving the zone to start over rather than clearing the boss.

And then:
While this is technically true, I'd like to point out what you're missing out on when you use this strategy.

But then you said:
If you're truly only interested in xp and nothing else, then you may as well stop reading here.


Is that not contradictory? You explained how xp runs SHOULD be fighting bosses, and then you said that those people should stop reading.

??

Artemis
02-15-2012, 06:36 PM
I'm sorry but that is far to long for me lol anyone wanna summarize it?

StompArtist
02-15-2012, 06:37 PM
I'm sorry but that is far to long for me lol anyone wanna summarize it?

Boss skippers are evil.

Mothwing
02-15-2012, 06:41 PM
Boss skippers are evil.

Not when you're going for 66.

Fusionstrike
02-15-2012, 07:06 PM
Is that not contradictory? You explained how xp runs SHOULD be fighting bosses, and then you said that those people should stop reading.


My point is that yes, you can skip bosses to maximize xp, and as long as the only goal you have is to get xp, what I wrote won't matter to you. But if you're interested in gear/money too as a secondary goal, then you should consider doing the bosses while you're at it. That's the case my post is making.

Aquilasoul
02-15-2012, 07:46 PM
Boss skippers are evil: agree!

Mount fang: Kill boss or kick ;)

ZHEOTARE
02-15-2012, 07:53 PM
I don't think anybody would fight a boss when having a Thrasher and going for 66.

I did. Stupid not to kill the boss with 5 4x potted peeps. Takes all of 10 secs, and best odds for best drops.

Mothwing
02-15-2012, 07:55 PM
I did. Stupid not to kill the boss with 5 4x potted peeps. Takes all of 10 secs, and best odds for best drops.

Ok, im just telling you my opinion. Seems pointless when you could use that 10 seconds to kill 2+ mobs resulting in...5 enemies per mob, 2 mobs, 10 enemies= 40 xp. 40 xp is more appealing than 8.

RedRyder
02-15-2012, 07:58 PM
I don't think anybody would fight a boss when having a Thrasher and going for 66.

Lol um, my guildies and I all did it for me getting red from 60-66, and my bird 51-65. Wouldn't have been able to get any end game gear skipping the bosses. Like zhe said, it only takes 10secs with a fully potted group.

No big deal


Ok, im just telling you my opinion. Seems pointless when you could use that 10 seconds to kill 2+ mobs resulting in...5 enemies per mob, 2 mobs, 10 enemies= 40 xp. 40 xp is more appealing than 8.

I think you're forgetting the bonus xp with a full team + the extra xp bosses grant. Even if it's a lower amount, it's nothing that can't be made up in a few seconds.. Again,

No big deal

Mothwing
02-15-2012, 07:59 PM
Lol um, my guildies and I all did it for me getting red from 60-66, and my bird 51-65. Wouldn't have been able to get any end game gear skipping the bosses. Like zhe said, it only takes 10secs with a fully potted group.

No big deal

Again, it's my opinion, didn't say you had to agree with it.

RedRyder
02-15-2012, 08:00 PM
Again, it's my opinion, didn't say you had to agree with it.

And I offered mine. Nothing wrong with that eh?

Kaytar
02-15-2012, 08:02 PM
I did. Stupid not to kill the boss with 5 4x potted peeps. Takes all of 10 secs, and best odds for best drops.

Ok, im just telling you my opinion. Seems pointless when you could use that 10 seconds to kill 2+ mobs resulting in...5 enemies per mob, 2 mobs, 10 enemies= 40 xp. 40 xp is more appealing than 8.a lot of gold is better than 40xp imo :)

Mothwing
02-15-2012, 08:05 PM
a lot of gold is better than 40xp imo :)

If I were in the journey of getting 100k xp, i'd go for the xp, especially when I have a fully crafted Lilith set.

Rare
02-15-2012, 08:20 PM
I don't think anybody would fight a boss when having a Thrasher and going for 66.

Hmm. I did. Almost every time. Until i got toward the end.

Mothwing
02-15-2012, 08:21 PM
Ok, it seems people can't get over that post, deleted.

Ayc2000
02-15-2012, 08:24 PM
Yeah, I'd occasionally fight the boss, especially if in a good group. 40xp here and there isn't exactly much to sacrifice. You could make that up in ten seconds. Plus you never have enough money ;)

Mothwing
02-15-2012, 08:27 PM
Yeah, I'd occasionally fight the boss, especially if in a good group. 40xp here and there isn't exactly much to sacrifice. You could make that up in ten seconds. Plus you never have enough money ;)

I do ^.^ I actually like being broke, makes you not want stuff.

ZHEOTARE
02-15-2012, 08:33 PM
If I were in the journey of getting 100k xp, i'd go for the xp, especially when I have a fully crafted Lilith set.

Maybe he should have said...


If you're truly only interested in xp and nothing else, then you should stop reading here.

Fusionstrike
02-16-2012, 12:32 PM
Good discussion. It looks like there are people who just want to stay on the xp train, which is valid. There are also a sizable number of others thinking like I did that it is worth rolling the dice on boss drops. I completely understand going hard-core for xp gains, especially when it's doing only part of the run (sewer runs for xp remaking at catspaw for example). As long as you're actually making good xp gains all the way to the boss, though, the cost/value is definitely different and much more palatable. I'm glad to see I'm not alone on the "bash the boss" train.

JaytB
02-16-2012, 12:53 PM
I think it's all personal opinion.

Some people just want to get to the level cap as quickly as possible, others want to have a chance to get pinks in the process. I'm in the last category. I rarely, if ever, skip bosses, even when I'm xp grinding.

So yeah, I definitely agree with the OP, but as said, it's all personal opinion :)

Fyrce
02-16-2012, 05:11 PM
I'm with Red. I always favor boss groups over strictly xp groups. The boss groups I've been in have not had to sacrifice that much xp for the extra chance at pinks.

(Now if I'm maxed out on items and gear... )

Also note that combo elixirs also have a extra luck component, so even more reason to do bosses.

And especially over 100k, that's a lot of bosses or a lot of chances on pinks that one is or is NOT taking. I much prefer the chance.

Oh one other thing (though I probably shouldn't say it) is to pick up partially completed levels to go at the boss. 1/2 finished BS:1 or just the boss at crypt... Have to be fast though since games seem to clean up faster now.

Whirlzap
02-16-2012, 06:45 PM
To be honest,
People who want exp will not do boss unless they have 4x Combo.
People who want boss will know they want boss and not EXP.

zeusabe
02-16-2012, 09:40 PM
Despite the length of your post, what you said was simply narrating what's going on in the game, there's not an iota of new information there. Precisely, there are people who want XP only, and those that go for bosses to hunt them down, it's a matter of gaming style. Going into the meat of your post, while it is true that it is a numbers game when it comes to getting good loots from bosses, it was never contested to begin with, everyone knows this for a fact already. So let me try to infuse my knowledge into your line of thinking, with respect to cost/benefit, it will be subjective and very hard to debate on because, for one, STS did not provide a drop percentage table like other MMO's where, say, this particular drop is 1%, that way we can make simple calculations on how many times you run a dungeon to get a loot (at least ballpoint). That particular figure, even if it's not 100% correct, can canalize or give particular direction to how a player see boss hunting as far as cost/benefit is concerned. For example, if a loot pink A has 1% drop rate, it means in every 100 kills, you probably will get 1, now if you throw that to the players, you can now ask them if 100 runs is enough cost for the benefit of said loot. In this game, the cost benefit varies greatly due to the fact that it's luck-based and not percent based (like other MMO's), I can run less than 10 times of the boss and get 3 pinks (actually I did in the past) while some guy has been running that same dungeon 'til kingdom come but no pink, so the cost between him and me varies. My point is, the cost/benefit concept in this game is not linear, the cost/benefit does not exist if I have to be more candid, because there's no way to compute it. In Poker you know for a fact that there's royal flush somewhere out there since you know for a fact that the cards are there, you can now work on percentages (of course chances too) but at least you know it can come up because you know the ingredients are there, here in this game, you don't even know if a pink will show up at all. There is no science behind farming bosses aside from being lucky and being patient, of course, it's logical to get more chances the more you kill but it doesn't mean you get more pinks, in my book, you cannot call something science if you're just doing some fishing expeditions and crossing your fingers. What you can put your finger into are the places you can farm, and the level of your characters to use to maximize the item scale pricing, that's it. Going into your usage of 4x elixir, since you included the concept of cost/benefit, you did not mention a player's ability to purchase platinum, you just limited it to the cost/benefit in-game, but it's essential to take into account each and every player's ability to purchase platinum for you to assess in full truth the accuracy of your cost/benefit, again, I will go out on a limb say you can never pinpoint the cost/benefit of using 4x elixir because then you would have to at least know a good amount of players buying platinum and get their opinions one by one. You delved into a dangerous trap of generalizing, what you're probably saying is based on your own experience, I can easily provide a different story such as me getting 3 pinks in 10 runs in the past. I do not mean to rudely disagree, I'm simply presenting a different point of view, if you disagree with me, it's ok. Thank you.

mackjack
02-17-2012, 01:13 AM
An item with a 1% drop rate doesn't guarantee that you'll get this item in 100 plays. You could get it in one shot, or you might not see it in 10,000 shots. If you play long enough, however, and if you divide the number of drops by the number of bosses you've killed, I'd bet that it'll be very close to 1/100, or 1%.

Percentages and probablities deal with large samples; providing a handful of anaecdotol evidences doesn't "prove" anything.

In any case, we might know what the actual drop rate is, but I can guarantee that if you don't kill bosses at all, your drop rate is ~0%.