Faking offers for manipulating the prices

[Drae12]

Isn't it illegal? Faking the current offers? Coz i got a pm by a player who wants to buy my shiny shamrock balloon for 20m..


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[firebelt & crystalkiller]

Whaaa aaaaa shamrock was 3-4m.. Suddenly became 10m in market and thn suddenly 20m offers wtf

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[hyxx]

10m+ might be real,but 20m seems pretty over,10m+ might be real cause all vanity are rising,like kershal 80m to 120m+saw kershal sold 150m,red ballon was 50-60m few weeks ago now 100m

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[Geuimau]

Why is it illegal when u get that offer??

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[GucciBang]

Coz i got a pm by a player who wants to buy my shiny shamrock balloon for 20m

lmao

Enviado de meu SM-J810M usando o Tapatalk

[Drae12]

Why is it illegal when u get that offer??

Sent from my JSN-L22 using Tapatalk

Idk because that player said his friend sold his shiny shamrock for 25m.

I didn't sell mine for 20m tho, and never gonna sell it haha


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[THE GOLDEN KING]

It’s not ‘Price Manipulation’ it’s most likely Inflation. Due to ‘House Party’ event and the ‘Pirate Booty’ event. Also supply and demand plays a role in this situation as-well.


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[Redjellydonut]

Lol u wanna know what happening right now? So aloooot of people have gold from the party crasher event (dummies that were sitting in those top houses) and are literally buying everything and relisting in auction for ridiculous prices. Little do alot of them know not alot of people are not gonna buy and they are wasting their gold on high af listing tax. But also there are those who are willing to throw gold at u just to get their item. Just give it a couple month and the inflation will chill a bit. What u wanna do is hold a while and not but anything too expensive because people are item hungry right now because their pockets have gold now.


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[Encryptions]

And you guys see why the devs did not put 30k a run in pirate booty. I am sure that event alone added 50+ billion gold to the game even though it had "low" drops.
No one is manipulating any thing, its inflation. I paid 60m each for 3 red balloons and I go to buy more this week and they are 100m+ now so I just decide to screw buying more and sell mine.
Omg I could only imagine the prices if people did 30k a run, adding around 1.2 trillion gold into game. But do becareful because I am sure some items are fake, just ask your guild or a few friends about the price of the item you are buying or selling.
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Espacetimestudios%2Ec om%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D510416&share_tid=510416&share_fid=24169&share_type=t&link_source=app
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?510416-How-booty-economy-time-line-works&highlight=Time+line

[Zeasasabila]

In my opinion there are 2 sides of the price of an item, there is an inflation or manipulation ...
what you are asking is manipulation, it is true that sometimes some people use it to make big profits or increase the price of the goods after they are designed. There is a bad event where there will be bankruptcy and then sell goods unfortunately, some contractors buy and work together to sell prices that are not in accordance with the previous to the owner or others who want to buy it because they like the goods and the only items available are only in the contractor because of that the price cannot be bought low / lowered.
But this Extream for me because this is a "ManiFlansi" (Manipulation and inflation) the price of this game.
Sorry if there are errors in writing and language.
if you know please correct me thank you. [emoji16][emoji389][emoji304][emoji120]

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[Overbear]

I agree, it's not manipulation, but inflation. I noticed it alot especially during this "House Party" event.

[Motherless_Child]

Isn't it illegal? Faking the current offers? Coz i got a pm by a player who wants to buy my shiny shamrock balloon for 20m..


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How is that "illegal"???? An "offer" is an offer...... Either YOU think it's a good sale in comparison to what other people are selling it for or you DON'T think its good... You decide... Manage your own economy...... The only set prices in AL is PLATINUM..... Everything else is up to the seller........ That's kind of how things works everywhere, even on amazon and ebay...........

[Purpure]

imo gold/silver winterfowl wings prices are straight out nonsense now @.@

[Titanium]

i've seen people spamming in towns with alts "buying cryo daggers 45m" over the weekend.

I have checked cs today and guess what.. there's a cryo dagger there which will be never be sold for that amount.

Some people are playing with the prices, it is what it is.

[firebelt & crystalkiller]

Must be stopped.. It's annoying that u can never buy what u budgeted.. It keeps rising for no reason

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[Monopolize]

And you guys see why the devs did not put 30k a run in pirate booty. I am sure that event alone added 50+ billion gold to the game even though it had "low" drops.
No one is manipulating any thing, its inflation. I paid 60m each for 3 red balloons and I go to buy more this week and they are 100m+ now so I just decide to screw buying more and sell mine.
Omg I could only imagine the prices if people did 30k a run, adding around 1.2 trillion gold into game. But do becareful because I am sure some items are fake, just ask your guild or a few friends about the price of the item you are buying or selling.
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Espacetimestudios%2Ec om%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D510416&share_tid=510416&share_fid=24169&share_type=t&link_source=app
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?510416-How-booty-economy-time-line-works&highlight=Time+line

Its actually 192B + on booty event alone xD

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200803/b30d396c10e93e5eafc7ce91dd07884f.jpg

[Redjellydonut]

All u gotta do is stop buying for a bit [emoji2371] prices will drop because demand is not there. Imo its the best time to sell ur stuff...


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[Deathslament]

Its actually 192B + on booty event alone xD

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200803/b30d396c10e93e5eafc7ce91dd07884f.jpg

That was only the first 8 days aswell, pirate booty was 14 days

[Lil sez]

its purely because of the events...prices have sky-rocketed- way too much gold going into the economy from an accumulation of events and this is the only way to sell it

[gilsooon]

Plus 1 on more often awake event :)

[Encryptions]

Wow my prediction was wayyy off.

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[Analytical]

Lol u wanna know what happening right now? So aloooot of people have gold from the party crasher event (dummies that were sitting in those top houses) and are literally buying everything and relisting in auction for ridiculous prices. Little do alot of them know not alot of people are not gonna buy and they are wasting their gold on high af listing tax. But also there are those who are willing to throw gold at u just to get their item. Just give it a couple month and the inflation will chill a bit. What u wanna do is hold a while and not but anything too expensive because people are item hungry right now because their pockets have gold now.


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The most constructive comment/explanation so far in my opinion. Agreed with you to not buy many expensive items, especially the hyper-inflated combo with price-manipulated items like rare vanities and LB vanities. More selling will indeed push prices down.

My question is how do you deal with hoarders of items you want/need to buy then? Would love to hear your take on this

[Jausa]

It's called manipulation. This is how it works. A few people decide to manipulate an item. Buy the cheap ones and relist for much more. If someone undersells then buy it. People then actually fall for it because they are used to it. I mean used to overpricing. When they see something for 10x the price, oh it's inflation, oh it's the event. Nope, it's just overpricing. Did you notice how so many items are rising up lately? We have had many profitable events before but they didn't rise. Now we have this scheme of overpricing going on so prices are rising.

My advice to people would be to not buy overpriced.

[Encryptions]

It's called manipulation. This is how it works. A few people decide to manipulate an item. Buy the cheap ones and relist for much more. If someone undersells then buy it. People then actually fall for it because they are used to it. I mean used to overpricing. When they see something for 10x the price, oh it's inflation, oh it's the event. Nope, it's just overpricing. Did you notice how so many items are rising up lately? We have had many profitable events before but they didn't rise. Now we have this scheme of overpricing going on so prices are rising.

My advice to people would be to not buy overpriced.There is a difference in a profitable event and an event in which adds billions of gold to the game.
A profitable event: egg zavior, merch awake gems, easter event. (No gold is added to game so no reason for items to rise.) You start the event with 10bil gold in game and the event ends with 10bil gold in the game other than awake event. Its a gold sink.
An event that adds gold to the game: pirate booty, house event. These events add gold to the game. The game starts with 10bil in booty and ends with 100+ billion gold. Thats going to cause inflation.

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[THE GOLDEN KING]

It's called manipulation. This is how it works. A few people decide to manipulate an item. Buy the cheap ones and relist for much more. If someone undersells then buy it. People then actually fall for it because they are used to it. I mean used to overpricing. When they see something for 10x the price, oh it's inflation, oh it's the event. Nope, it's just overpricing. Did you notice how so many items are rising up lately? We have had many profitable events before but they didn't rise. Now we have this scheme of overpricing going on so prices are rising.

My advice to people would be to not buy overpriced.

It’s clearly inflation, no one is trying to “get you” or “trick you” into buying their item “over priced”. How do I know it’s inflation? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200803/07c2863a43c4f1892317e0fa3e9d83b1.jpg
192 BILLION GOLD has been generated in the first week of Pirate booty event, remember this event was 2 WEEKS LONG. That’s over 350 billion Newley added gold into the system, which is what again? That’s right inflation.

CINCO the CEO of AL even stated:

“Nearly half a trillion gold has been created you may see some ECONOMICAL IMPACT”

I’m baffled that how people come up with these assumptions of “hoarding”, “Price Manipulation” when clearly it’s not either in this situation, to top it all off we had that ‘House Party Crasher’ event too right after the ‘Pirate Booty’ event. Which probably added another 25+ billion gold into the game as-well.


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[QuaseT]

Additionally, the mentioned vanity items are more attractive for people now since og lb sets are almost impossible to buy nowadays.
I invested all my gold at the point cinco told they added so much gold with the last events to not be affected by the inflation. Dont wanna see the gold I farmed getting get less and less valuable.

[Jausa]

How was this gold calculated or just from boss drops? Chests Included? You know chests were more a gold sink than anything else. Again. That "300" b gold was distributed between all players. Players buying these "100m" vanitied aren't players that got their gold from booty or house party. Yes of course you will see some inflation of awakening gems maybe or legendary or cheap set gears but not top end items because the events didn't give out so much gold.

I would like to know how much gold is farmed from marsh and gates. Both are more profitable than these events and aren't causing this inflation and they are around for ages. These events didn't cause inflation or price rise of these top end items. Overpricing/hoarding did. Saw a post of encryptions saying he bought 2-3 red balloon banners- exactly this causes this "inflation" not a mediocre at best event.

[Analytical]

It’s clearly inflation, no one is trying to “get you” or “trick you” into buying their item “over priced”. How do I know it’s inflation? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200803/07c2863a43c4f1892317e0fa3e9d83b1.jpg
192 BILLION GOLD has been generated in the first week of Pirate booty event, remember this event was 2 WEEKS LONG. That’s over 350 billion Newley added gold into the system, which is what again? That’s right inflation.

CINCO the CEO of AL even stated:

“Nearly half a trillion gold has been created you may see some ECONOMICAL IMPACT”

I’m baffled that how people come up with these assumptions of “hoarding”, “Price Manipulation” when clearly it’s not either in this situation, to top it all off we had that ‘House Party Crasher’ event too right after the ‘Pirate Booty’ event. Which probably added another 25+ billion gold into the game as-well.


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Take the above with a grain of salt for whoever reading the above comment, as well as what I'm about to embark on.
(Note: If you are lazy to read something that took me quite some time and effort to put into picture, feel free to ignore but don't expect me to reply to your salty comments about how long this is)

Like that u cited what the dev said to strengthen your views on the recent price rise being caused SOLELY by inflation. That's what I took away from your comment. Feel free to correct me if I misunderstood it. That said, I don't see an attempt to explain HOW exactly adding billions of gold caused inflation, maybe your intention is to reiterate what has already been said by the dev which for some reasons I felt is somehow a bit redundant although extremely resourceful.

Personally, I'm just a normal guy, and I believe a vast majority of us may not have a sound economical background let alone a PhD in Economy. Fancy economical terms like "inflation" to a lay man like me, just seems too mumbo jumbo that it does not provide me with a constructive understanding. Checking Dictionary did help a little, but still it doesn't explain the MECHANISM of AL "inflation". At best, using the word itself only put the blame of the price rise to a mumbo jumbo word and expecting people to just accept it as a valid reason to shut their mouths from asking any further questions.

To start with, "Inflation" simply means the "value of money has dropped" because its getting abundant. Money has supply and demand too, when it has little to no value, people do not hold their money and prefer holding items like gold bars instead (in game these are the expensive vanities). So demand for items will rise, hence causing the rise in price.

Now, question is, to what extent does the value of money (Gold coins) drop? Or in another words to what extent does "inflation" causes price of items to rise?

It depends on two things.
1. Supply of money (Pirate booty, Blotoo party event, plat players buying gold etc)
2. Demand for money (Gold coins needed to buy awake gems in store to awake gears, expansion needing gold to buy new gears)

I'm wondering why the dev didn't disclose how much gold was SINKED/items being Liquidated during awake events as well as during expansion (or they actually did?) but so happily revealed the amount of gold ADDED to the game when people were asking why was the pirate booty event not as profitable as expected. What's the intention behind this? I will leave it to you.

Without both info, we can't be sure if the recent rise in price of some items is indeed caused by the ADDING of gold (supply of gold) AND/OR the lack of gold SINKED (demand for gold).

If the supply of gold > demand for gold:
"Inflation" happens, value of money falls, people keep items(hoarding whether in large or in small quantities) instead of gold, quickly causing a shortage of supply of items

If the supply of gold < demand of gold:
"Deflation" happens, value of money rises, people want money more than items, hence they sell the items they have causing prices to fall.

At the moment, it seems the AL community is still speculating what actually happened at this point with all sorts of possible factors causing the price rise of certain items not just limited to explanations/assumptions like "inflation" but also with "hoarding", "price manipulations", "faking offers" or even the combined effect of all the mentioned factors. And its funny to me how some of these responses in this thread are being so subjective and pointing fingers at one another, arguing who's right and who's wrong.

Finally, I will leave you all with these to think about.

Does items rise in price solely because of one of the following OR all of the following OR something else?
1. Inflation? (Too much Supply of money)
2. Lack of Deflation? (Lack of Gold Sink)
3. Hoarders? (Fake supply in the market)
4. Price manipulators? (Setting a personal price hoping that the market price will rise up to it, usually by tricking ignorant players that that's the normal price)
5. Offers fakers in forums/game? (A bit controversial, as its hard and time consuming to tell which offer is real and which offer is not real, other than testing the validity of those offers by yourself)

[Encryptions]

So me having 3 balloon banners causes inflation...? No. Aggressive had 45 balloon banners and they stated the same price for 1.5 years then went up to 50m. People got jealous and spreaded lies.

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[gilsooon]

Maybe we need new gold sink like spendalot 2.0 hehe

[THE GOLDEN KING]

Take the above with a grain of salt for whoever reading the above comment, as well as what I'm about to embark on.
(Note: If you are lazy to read something that took me quite some time and effort to put into picture, feel free to ignore but don't expect me to reply to your salty comments about how long this is)

Like that u cited what the dev said to strengthen your views on the recent price rise being caused SOLELY by inflation. That's what I took away from your comment. Feel free to correct me if I misunderstood it. That said, I don't see an attempt to explain HOW exactly adding billions of gold caused inflation, maybe your intention is to reiterate what has already been said by the dev which for some reasons I felt is somehow a bit redundant although extremely resourceful.

Personally, I'm just a normal guy, and I believe a vast majority of us may not have a sound economical background let alone a PhD in Economy. Fancy economical terms like "inflation" to a lay man like me, just seems too mumbo jumbo that it does not provide me with a constructive understanding. Checking Dictionary did help a little, but still it doesn't explain the MECHANISM of AL "inflation". At best, using the word itself only put the blame of the price rise to a mumbo jumbo word and expecting people to just accept it as a valid reason to shut their mouths from asking any further questions.

To start with, "Inflation" simply means the "value of money has dropped" because its getting abundant. Money has supply and demand too, when it has little to no value, people do not hold their money and prefer holding items like gold bars instead (in game these are the expensive vanities). So demand for items will rise, hence causing the rise in price.

Now, question is, to what extent does the value of money (Gold coins) drop? Or in another words to what extent does "inflation" causes price of items to rise?

It depends on two things.
1. Supply of money (Pirate booty, Blotoo party event, plat players buying gold etc)
2. Demand for money (Gold coins needed to buy awake gems in store to awake gears, expansion needing gold to buy new gears)

I'm wondering why the dev didn't disclose how much gold was SINKED/items being Liquidated during awake events as well as during expansion (or they actually did?) but so happily revealed the amount of gold ADDED to the game when people were asking why was the pirate booty event not as profitable as expected. What's the intention behind this? I will leave it to you.

Without both info, we can't be sure if the recent rise in price of some items is indeed caused by the ADDING of gold (supply of gold) AND/OR the lack of gold SINKED (demand for gold).

If the supply of gold > demand for gold:
"Inflation" happens, value of money falls, people keep items(hoarding whether in large or in small quantities) instead of gold, quickly causing a shortage of supply of items

If the supply of gold < demand of gold:
"Deflation" happens, value of money rises, people want money more than items, hence they sell the items they have causing prices to fall.

At the moment, it seems the AL community is still speculating what actually happened at this point with all sorts of possible factors causing the price rise of certain items not just limited to explanations/assumptions like "inflation" but also with "hoarding", "price manipulations", "faking offers" or even the combined effect of all the mentioned factors. And its funny to me how some of these responses in this thread are being so subjective and pointing fingers at one another, arguing who's right and who's wrong.

Finally, I will leave you all with these to think about.

Does items rise in price solely because of one of the following OR all of the following OR something else?
1. Inflation? (Too much Supply of money)
2. Lack of Deflation? (Lack of Gold Sink)
3. Hoarders? (Fake supply in the market)
4. Price manipulators? (Setting a personal price hoping that the market price will rise up to it, usually by tricking ignorant players that that's the normal price)
5. Offers fakers in forums/game? (A bit controversial, as its hard and time consuming to tell which offer is real and which offer is not real, other than testing the validity of those offers by yourself)

I’ve read your comment, I’ll be trying to explain and answer your last question of:

“Does items rise in price solely because of one of the following or all of the following”

1.) Inflation: Inflation played a huge role in why item prices are so high. Roughly Half a Billion Gold has been newly generated into the game. What most people don’t understand is that this happened in an ‘Extremely Short Period’ of 14 days! And to add more wood to the fire, Party Crasher probably added another 25+ billion gold in a time span of 7 days.

This is what causes major inflation! A huge amount of gold added into the game in a short amount of time. I’ll give you an example;

Ex: Say you only had 20m, and your goal was to buy Kershal Vanity Weapon that was worth 60m. Now imagine 50 players in the same situation as yourself. Then ‘Pirate Booty’ and ‘Party Crasher’ event(s) hit. Now after both events you managed to save up and get 60m, congratulations. But wait... there are now 50 other people who now have 60m as-well who all want kershal.
(I hope you understand what this leads too)
One of the 50 players offers 65m for the kershal to try and 1-up the other 49 players, so then someone else offers 67, then another offers 70, then 75, then 89, and then 95 and then 100m, etc... which causes the Value if that item to rise. I hope you understood this example.


2.) Lack of Deflation: Yes, this is also a reason why item prices are so high, because there isn’t enough Gold-Sinks in game to catch up with the newly amount of gold generated.

3.) Hoarders: This is also true, although this doesn’t cause a major change in the value of an item. Especially one you can loot... for example, the arcane vanity weapons such as maul,kershal,bb hooks. *This is not what caused the prices of items to rise*

4.) Price manipulators: Sure, this could be a reason why item prices rise. This doesn’t really do much, I’ll explain; let’s say Player X wanted 30m for a Bonesaw vanity, and said C/O: was 25m. And the actual value is worth around 8-10m. No one will buy for 25m, so if no one buys it for 25m, he will lower the price, why? Because no one has been offering anything close to that, so he tried 20m, and still nothing, so now he goes for 15m, he gets a few bites from other players but there’s always going to be that 1 person who will over pay and buy his Bonesaw for 15m. So again, this doesn’t play a huge role, but I guess you could say it plays a part?


5.) Fake offers are the same as Price manipulators. So I have the same response there.

In conclusion, going back to 1.) Inflation. Is the true reason why item prices are so high, sure the others you mentioned played a part but that part is extremely small. AL inflation is caused by adding a huge amount of gold in a very short amount of time, to mention supply and demand of a certain item.

We were already going through inflation without these past 2 events, with EVG and DM gold farming maps. 4-6 months ago maul vanity was 35-40m, and then 1-2 months ago, maul vanity went up to 50-53m. You can see the difference, EVG and DM probably added a few billions of gold into the game in a 6 month time span, while during Pirate Booty event and Party Crusher added half a trillion gold during a time span of 3 weeks. You can see the difference in results, of what happens during a long term stable inflation and a short term massive gold inflation.

Think of it like a balloon. If you inflate it too quickly it pops(which is what happens when you add half a trillion gold into the game in 3 weeks)

But if you take your time puffing it(EVG and DM) you can stop it from popping.


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[THE GOLDEN KING]

Maybe we need new gold sink like spendalot 2.0 hehe

I can give you 2 good gold sinks.

1.)Adding Awakening event 3-4 times a year for 2 weeks

2.) adding (untradable)
-50m gold vanity set
-75m gold vanity set
-100m gold vanity set
- 200m gold vanity set
-250m gold vanity set
-500m vanity set
-750m vanity set
-999m vanity set.

:NEW 50k gold chest, chance to loot (tradable)
-5m gold vanity weapon
-10m gold vanity weapon
-25m gold vanity weapon
-50m vanity weapon
-100m vanity weapon


: ADD purchasable vanity weapons too(untradable)
- 150m gold vanity weapon
- 250m gold vanity weapon
- 500m gold vanity weapon
- 999m gold vanity weapon.


STS can do so much with sirspendsalot, SO MUCH!! I really hope they have something planned for him. Because I would like all these things I’ve mentioned to be implemented!


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[gilsooon]

I can give you 2 good gold sinks.

1.)Adding Awakening event 3-4 times a year for 2 weeks

2.) adding (untradable)
-50m gold vanity set
-75m gold vanity set
-100m gold vanity set
- 200m gold vanity set
-250m gold vanity set
-500m vanity set
-750m vanity set
-999m vanity set.

:NEW 50k gold chest, chance to loot (tradable)
-5m gold vanity weapon
-10m gold vanity weapon
-25m gold vanity weapon
-50m vanity weapon
-100m vanity weapon


: ADD purchasable vanity weapons too(untradable)
- 150m gold vanity weapon
- 250m gold vanity weapon
- 500m gold vanity weapon
- 999m gold vanity weapon.


STS can do so much with sirspendsalot, SO MUCH!! I really hope they have something planned for him. Because I would like all these things I’ve mentioned to be implemented!


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Something like this plus 1

[friendly]

I personally sold Cryo daggs 40m today


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[Titanium]

I personally sold Cryo daggs 40m today


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I'm dead.

_____________

[Jausa]

To people saying that booty caused inflation.

Explain to me why farms that are more profitable and have been around for months don't cause 20% of this inflation. Why when even these exact events were more profitable they didn't cause this much inflation?

People buying these items; players nowadays have enough gold, they had years to farm. These events didn't cause nothing, people already had the gold. Now when someone overprices something that price is accepted often times enough, and is set as a new standard. Before, this would never work, but now people have enough gold so they buy anyway. Sometimes even in a rush incase the item "rises" which actually causes even more fake rarity than the hoarders cause. Bottom line, all these years of farming and the inflation that inevitably caused and the overpricers caused the items to rise. A few weeks or a month ago these cross balloon banners were a spam in auction for 3-4m but now I suppose a weak event caused them to rise nearly 10 times lmaooooooo.

[Giant bench]

To people saying that booty caused inflation.

Explain to me why farms that are more profitable and have been around for months don't cause 20% of this inflation. Why when even these exact events were more profitable they didn't cause this much inflation?

People buying these items; players nowadays have enough gold, they had years to farm. These events didn't cause nothing, people already had the gold. Now when someone overprices something that price is accepted often times enough, and is set as a new standard. Before, this would never work, but now people have enough gold so they buy anyway. Sometimes even in a rush incase the item "rises" which actually causes even more fake rarity than the hoarders cause. Bottom line, all these years of farming and the inflation that inevitably caused and the overpricers caused the items to rise. A few weeks or a month ago these cross balloon banners were a spam in auction for 3-4m but now I suppose a weak event caused them to rise nearly 10 times lmaooooooo.

I am now convinced....





















You are indeed a moron, sorry to say.

[Jausa]

I am now convinced....





















You are indeed a moron, sorry to say.Care to elaborate more on your opinion and what you are convinced about? Would like to know why I am an idiot and why you didn't prove me wrong.

[Giant bench]

I’ve read your comment, I’ll be trying to explain and answer your last question of:

“Does items rise in price solely because of one of the following or all of the following”

1.) Inflation: Inflation played a huge role in why item prices are so high. Roughly Half a Billion Gold has been newly generated into the game. What most people don’t understand is that this happened in an ‘Extremely Short Period’ of 14 days! And to add more wood to the fire, Party Crasher probably added another 25+ billion gold in a time span of 7 days.

This is what causes major inflation! A huge amount of gold added into the game in a short amount of time. I’ll give you an example;

Ex: Say you only had 20m, and your goal was to buy Kershal Vanity Weapon that was worth 60m. Now imagine 50 players in the same situation as yourself. Then ‘Pirate Booty’ and ‘Party Crasher’ event(s) hit. Now after both events you managed to save up and get 60m, congratulations. But wait... there are now 50 other people who now have 60m as-well who all want kershal.
(I hope you understand what this leads too)
One of the 50 players offers 65m for the kershal to try and 1-up the other 49 players, so then someone else offers 67, then another offers 70, then 75, then 89, and then 95 and then 100m, etc... which causes the Value if that item to rise. I hope you understood this example.


2.) Lack of Deflation: Yes, this is also a reason why item prices are so high, because there isn’t enough Gold-Sinks in game to catch up with the newly amount of gold generated.

3.) Hoarders: This is also true, although this doesn’t cause a major change in the value of an item. Especially one you can loot... for example, the arcane vanity weapons such as maul,kershal,bb hooks. *This is not what caused the prices of items to rise*

4.) Price manipulators: Sure, this could be a reason why item prices rise. This doesn’t really do much, I’ll explain; let’s say Player X wanted 30m for a Bonesaw vanity, and said C/O: was 25m. And the actual value is worth around 8-10m. No one will buy for 25m, so if no one buys it for 25m, he will lower the price, why? Because no one has been offering anything close to that, so he tried 20m, and still nothing, so now he goes for 15m, he gets a few bites from other players but there’s always going to be that 1 person who will over pay and buy his Bonesaw for 15m. So again, this doesn’t play a huge role, but I guess you could say it plays a part?


5.) Fake offers are the same as Price manipulators. So I have the same response there.

In conclusion, going back to 1.) Inflation. Is the true reason why item prices are so high, sure the others you mentioned played a part but that part is extremely small. AL inflation is caused by adding a huge amount of gold in a very short amount of time, to mention supply and demand of a certain item.

We were already going through inflation without these past 2 events, with EVG and DM gold farming maps. 4-6 months ago maul vanity was 35-40m, and then 1-2 months ago, maul vanity went up to 50-53m. You can see the difference, EVG and DM probably added a few billions of gold into the game in a 6 month time span, while during Pirate Booty event and Party Crusher added half a trillion gold during a time span of 3 weeks. You can see the difference in results, of what happens during a long term stable inflation and a short term massive gold inflation.

Think of it like a balloon. If you inflate it too quickly it pops(which is what happens when you add half a trillion gold into the game in 3 weeks)

But if you take your time puffing it(EVG and DM) you can stop it from popping.


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Care to elaborate more on your opinion and what you are convinced about? Would like to know why I am an idiot and why you didn't prove me wrong.

Golden King explain it perfect. Please read his explanation. He talk about why prices are high, how it happened and why EVG and DM didn’t cause as much inflation as these 2 events did. Also calling a 2 week event “weak” for generating half a trillion gold into the game is stupid. And for you saying that makes you stupid. I am sorry.

Also I call you a moron because you say balloon banners were 3-4m a month ago to a few weeks ago lol they been over 20m for close to 2 year now.

[Jausa]

Golden King explain it perfect. Please read his explanation. He talk about why prices are high, how it happened and why EVG and DM didn’t cause as much inflation as these 2 events did. Also calling a 2 week event “weak” for generating half a trillion gold into the game is stupid. And for you saying that makes you stupid. I am sorry.

Also I call you a moron because you say balloon banners were 3-4m a month ago to a few weeks ago lol they been over 20m for close to 2 year now.Shiny ballroom or whatever it is called is also a balloon-like banner. The event that came from booty which the Devs mentioned had chests included. The chests didn't have good drops, that 300b was mostly from chests from auc I would say. Also this "Inflation" would only cause an item to rise for a low amount like 10%-20% so it would make up for the inflation. That gold from the event would be invested into that extra price increase.

These prices are fake and not caused by inflation caused by booty. This event gold came from chests mostly, lots of chests were bought from auc and dropped 12k gold. Making that 300b or so number irrelevant/untrue. The number would only be relevant only if the chests were untradable and not bought/opened from auction. why? That was a gold sink from auc most of the time you paid more than you got.

Also this event wasn't broken like the ones before. It added much less gold. A player getting 1.5m gold from the event won't inflate the game or cause a 30m item to be 4x the price lmao, that would be out of price RANGE. Obviously booty didn't triple quadruple anyone's gold. People don't realize but an event like Eggzavier would cause much more inflation at first sight. That event actually made players rich, unlike booty. These last events didn't give much gold and didn't put anyone in the price range of these arcanes or give them the ability to pay 3x/4x the price of an item they couldn't afford beforehand.

First of all: these prices are results of overpricing which also explains why other others didn't rise except particular ones.
Second: by inflation caused by all these years of farming, people just have a lot of gold left so they buy overpriced or not. If it's overpriced then it's even more of a "look at me I am rich" statement, which encourages some to buy even more.

OP prices after an average event= overpricing- like always. Have fun with your greediness/overpricing people, I am out

[Giant bench]

Shiny ballroom or whatever it is called is also a balloon-like banner. The event that came from booty which the Devs mentioned had chests included. The chests didn't have good drops, that 300b was mostly from chests from auc I would say. Also this "Inflation" would only cause an item to rise for a low amount like 10%-20% so it would make up for the inflation. That gold from the event would be invested into that extra price increase.

These prices are fake and not caused by inflation caused by booty. This event gold came from chests mostly, lots of chests were bought from auc and dropped 12k gold. Making that 300b or so number irrelevant/untrue. The number would only be relevant only if the chests were untradable and not bought/opened from auction. why? That was a gold sink from auc most of the time you paid more than you got.

Also this event wasn't broken like the ones before. It added much less gold. A player getting 1.5m gold from the event won't inflate the game or cause a 30m item to be 4x the price lmao, that would be out of price RANGE. Obviously booty didn't triple quadruple anyone's gold. People don't realize but an event like Eggzavier would cause much more inflation at first sight. That event actually made players rich, unlike booty. These last events didn't give much gold and didn't put anyone in the price range of these arcanes or give them the ability to pay 3x/4x the price of an item they couldn't afford beforehand.

First of all: these prices are results of overpricing which also explains why other others didn't rise except particular ones.
Second: by inflation caused by all these years of farming, people just have a lot of gold left so they buy overpriced or not. If it's overpriced then it's even more of a "look at me I am rich" statement, which encourages some to buy even more.

OP prices after an average event= overpricing- like always. Have fun with your greediness/overpricing people, I am out

You are an absolute genius, with IQ levels off the charts. You made my day.

[Encryptions]

You are an absolute genius, with IQ levels off the charts. You made my day.Ikr him saying me holding 3 red balloons caused price to go from 60m to 120m . Such 240 iq point score.



. Saw a post of encryptions saying he bought 2-3 red balloon banners- exactly this causes this "inflation" not a mediocre at best event.


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[Redjellydonut]

The most constructive comment/explanation so far in my opinion. Agreed with you to not buy many expensive items, especially the hyper-inflated combo with price-manipulated items like rare vanities and LB vanities. More selling will indeed push prices down.

My question is how do you deal with hoarders of items you want/need to buy then? Would love to hear your take on this

Yes just hold your gold for a bit. Things always manage to calm down eventually. Its just the temptation of buying right now. Just like stock the people who are the most patient make the most money.

As for items you really want to buy. Unfortunately u will have to stick to forums or auction watch for a bit. Hoarders eventually release their items. Especially those items they try to flip for profit but don’t succeed in selling. We will see what STS does to help out the economy. Because everyone having gold will mean everyone will try to merch and flip stuff. Which means it’s a competition for every desirable item. Kills the fun of this game.

Would be nice to have an event that requires gold to run instead of energies...


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[Jausa]

Ikr him saying me holding 3 red balloons caused price to go from 60m to 120m . Such 240 iq point score.





Sent from my SM-G892A using TapatalkI said the action- of hoarding you genius. How ironic that you are calling me the 240 IQ guy but you tremble on your feet [emoji23][emoji23]

[Ilove_Poopoo]

These prices are fake and not caused by inflation caused by booty. This event gold came from chests mostly, lots of chests were bought from auc and dropped 12k gold. Making that 300b or so number irrelevant/untrue. The number would only be relevant only if the chests were untradable and not bought/opened from auction. why? That was a gold sink from auc most of the time you paid more than you got.

How does buying gold chests in auc act as a goldsink? The gold was just distributed from player to player. Nothing gets liquidated. Get your facts straight.


Also this event wasn't broken like the ones before. It added much less gold. A player getting 1.5m gold from the event won't inflate the game or cause a 30m item to be 4x the price lmao, that would be out of price RANGE. Obviously booty didn't triple quadruple anyone's gold. People don't realize but an event like Eggzavier would cause much more inflation at first sight. That event actually made players rich, unlike booty. These last events didn't give much gold and didn't put anyone in the price range of these arcanes or give them the ability to pay 3x/4x the price of an item they couldn't afford beforehand.Individuals who became wealthy from Eggzavier is due to gold distribution amongst the community. No gold was generated.

Whereas Booty & Party Crasher, its sole purpose is to generate gold, it will always conbtribute to inflation.

The "These didn't cause inflation" narrative is pure delusional. Like as if that quarter of a trillion gold generated in 2 weeks magically disappeared from circulation.



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[Jausa]

How does buying gold chests in auc act as a goldsink? The gold was just distributed from player to player. Nothing gets liquidated. Get your facts straight.

Individuals who became wealthy from Eggzavier is due to gold distribution amongst the community. No gold was generated.

Whereas Booty & Party Crasher, its sole purpose is to generate gold, it will always conbtribute to inflation.

The "These didn't cause inflation" narrative is pure delusional. Like as if that quarter of a trillion gold generated in 2 weeks magically disappeared from circulation.



Sent from my SM-N975F using TapatalkEggzaver would cause inflation because it would make a player rich from gold distribution from rich to poor. This takes away millions from a rich guy and gives it to a poor player which puts the player in question in the price range of these vanities.
I said that the chestswede more of a good sink if bought from auction because they cost 40k to buy and dropped 12k

[Ilove_Poopoo]

Eggzaver would cause inflation because it would make a player rich from gold distribution from rich to poor. This takes away millions from a rich guy and gives it to a poor player which puts the player in question in the price range of these vanities.Thats a fallacy, an assumption that one would necessarily be in question once they have gold. One things certain is that inflation is inflation if supply can't keep up with the sudden significant influx of gold. In this case, its the result from the series of gold events without a significant enough goldsink to equalize.



I said that the chestswede more of a good sink if bought from auction because they cost 40k to buy and dropped 12kSo how again does this act as a goldsink? A goldsink would imply gold liquidation. Selling/buying the chests is gold distribution, and more gold is in circulation everytime those gold chests are opened which will contribute to inflation.

Unsure why this has to be argued with when its pretty obvious.



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[Archugejackmen]

I definitely feel like it’s due to inflation ; prices of everything have skyrocketed (made 70m profit off of gears thus far, from 240m investment)

[Kaisaur]

Just leaving this here. Only intellectuals can manipulate prices in AL anyway so..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200804/7b0f43f0120884eae04de31f85927ef2.jpg

Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalkoh god burrnnnnn

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[Drae12]

Just leaving this here. Only intellectuals can manipulate prices in AL anyway so..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200804/7b0f43f0120884eae04de31f85927ef2.jpg

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Exposed


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[Jausa]

Just leaving this here. Only intellectuals can manipulate prices in AL anyway so..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200804/7b0f43f0120884eae04de31f85927ef2.jpg

Sent from my HD1901 using TapatalkAhahahahaha. Proved my point my man, thank you.
There you go people that thought it wasn't overpricing, and even called me idiots. Tables turned hard.

[anjin]

Just leaving this here. Only intellectuals can manipulate prices in AL anyway so..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200804/7b0f43f0120884eae04de31f85927ef2.jpg

Sent from my HD1901 using TapatalkDAYUM! such a big disappointment from the man who made the video on how to avoid fake c / o and R.I.P for those who buy the loons for fake price.

[Drae12]

I think theres a punishment for faking the offers.


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[kanogom]

They all shud get ban

[Drae12]

They all shud get ban

You mean the list that Encryptions made? Kinda unfair for them i think since it's Encryptions idea to manipulate the prices but who knows hahaha.

#MassiveBanning


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[Encryptions]

This is 2 years ago when I came back. I had a balloon banner and I was told if I message people to rise the price it would work. Little did I know it doesn't work, it won't work like that and I cringe now for what I said. I wanted my 30m item to go to 50m hence I only had 36m at the time. So 15m profit is huge to me, I sent the message and all things went down hill.
I got death threats by multiple people, I got tted constantly by multiple people. It doesn't stop there, people spamming me, leaving my maps after tting me.
You want proof it didn't work. At the time when balloons went to 50m is the same time kersh bb and ollerus goes up in price too. I didn't own any of those yet I was accused of them rising too.
Right now, balloon goes up and guess what else goes up? Ollerus kersh bb and many other items. I got none of them on me.
I don't get it, why keep bringing back the past on 1 mistake I did when I have done over 100000 good deeds? No one talks about what I have done that is good, just my mistake and tt hah. There are people out there doing way worse yet no one says a word about them?

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[Roycedamagnet]

I've taken the post down. He clearly knows he's made a mistake and regrets it. Cheers.

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[anjin]

I've taken the post down. He clearly knows he's made a mistake and regrets it. Cheers.

Sent from my HD1901 using TapatalkEven though it was a two years ago, he still violated the TOS and it is unfair for the others that been punished,an eye for an eye (and a tooth for a tooth)

[kanogom]

How many players brake the rules and never get ban.. I dont get it realy.. From black market to idk what.. And they still here.. That is ridiculous

Plus look at this one here.. Ohh he made mistake.. Is ok.. Lol... If he do it one's.. He do it again.. Who brake the rules.. He shud get ban.. Very simple..if not,then all who got ban before.. Unban all because they feel bad.. They do it only ones.

[Drae12]

"once a cheater, always a cheater", "once a liar, always a liar"


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[Giant bench]

How many players brake the rules and never get ban.. I dont get it realy.. From black market to idk what.. And they still here.. That is ridiculous

Plus look at this one here.. Ohh he made mistake.. Is ok.. Lol... If he do it one's.. He do it again.. Who brake the rules.. He shud get ban.. Very simple..if not,then all who got ban before.. Unban all because they feel bad.. They do it only ones.

Price Manipulation in AL is not a real thing, we the people set the item prices, not STS. To say we should get banned for selling an item at the price we want is to say beggars should get banned for begging. I bet you’re the type of person believe that 500bil inflation is fake and the moon is made out of cheese.

[kanogom]

What moon is not made of cheese o.o.. Hahaha you talking like you 5 years old realy.. Who brake the rules shud get ban.. Finish story..

Yea and this all happen from inflation of gold in the game..nothing wrong here.. Okie

[swoutttt]

This is 2 years ago when I came back. I had a balloon banner and I was told if I message people to rise the price it would work. Little did I know it doesn't work, it won't work like that and I cringe now for what I said. I wanted my 30m item to go to 50m hence I only had 36m at the time. So 15m profit is huge to me, I sent the message and all things went down hill.
I got death threats by multiple people, I got tted constantly by multiple people. It doesn't stop there, people spamming me, leaving my maps after tting me.
You want proof it didn't work. At the time when balloons went to 50m is the same time kersh bb and ollerus goes up in price too. I didn't own any of those yet I was accused of them rising too.
Right now, balloon goes up and guess what else goes up? Ollerus kersh bb and many other items. I got none of them on me.
I don't get it, why keep bringing back the past on 1 mistake I did when I have done over 100000 good deeds? No one talks about what I have done that is good, just my mistake and tt hah. There are people out there doing way worse yet no one says a word about them?

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This is what happens when a scammer gets exposed. They cry, blaming others and and trying hard to make a wrong into a right.
Clearly violated TOS and betrayed everyone with your 'community posts'. Sad you waste so much time on a story only you get,
instead of being a man and appologise to the community.

[Giant bench]

What moon is not made of cheese o.o.. Hahaha you talking like you 5 years old realy.. Who brake the rules shud get ban.. Finish story..

Yea and this all happen from inflation of gold in the game..nothing wrong here.. Okie

It not part of the rules... so you end up banning someone’s who not brake rules...

Ah wait I make mistake, what encry did, did break rules. Price manipulation is when you tell other people to sell an item for higher price to try to rise price of the item.

[kanogom]

Yea I give him ban o.o..how is that? I, don't care who get ban if he braking the rules here.. Rules shud be same for everyone here.. Don't matter how much they buy platinum or idk what..

[gilsooon]

Uhmmm i thought were driving all I kept reading is "braking" xD just a pun

[Drae12]

Uhmmm i thought were driving all I kept reading is "braking" xD just a pun

Hahahahahahaha


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[QuaseT]

I see this a bit different. Lets say I have the last set of some old lb vanity. I say I sell it for 3b fix no less even tho the highest offer is 1b. Am I considered a manipulator? Its clear I try to "manipulate" the price by not selling any cheaper? Does it matter if I tell everybody its worth 3b bc the only one selling overall?
Encryptions pmed like 10 people... out of 150 loons? So am I allowed to sell balloons now or not? I mean I didnt receive a msg but still own one. And even if I did. I dont care if a person wants me to keep it, I sell whenever I want for whatever price. I think you guys need to chill, encryptions is right: the house mail of him did not change anything for the reasons he mentioned.
There are people makroing their way in event lbs and most aps lbs to the top with several chars or stand in houses with 20 chars afk collecting gold and you want to ban this guy.

[kanogom]

Okie.is not up to me who get ban or not.. I replay on this and say if he brake rules he shud get ban like all who brake it.. Thats it.

So you tell me I want to ban this guy.. Comon man.. Idk who is that guy and I don't care realy but if he do somthing wrong that's not of my problem.

[QuaseT]

Okie.is not up to me who get ban or not.. I replay on this and say if he brake rules he shud get ban like all who brake it.. Thats it.

So you tell me I want to ban this guy.. Comon man.. Idk who is that guy and I don't care realy but if he do somthing wrong that's not of my problem.In my opinion he did nothing wrong. The mail he wrote had no affect on the price of loons and the result is he didnt manipulate anything. I would not ban somebody for the attempt alone. Same as I would not ban a new player who writes "selling ign" and doesnt know its banable aslong as he didnt actually do it. Thats my point of few, if u think he should get banned for this thats up to you.

[swoutttt]

I see this a bit different. Lets say I have the last set of some old lb vanity. I say I sell it for 3b fix no less even tho the highest offer is 1b. Am I considered a manipulator? Its clear I try to "manipulate" the price by not selling any cheaper? Does it matter if I tell everybody its worth 3b bc the only one selling overall?
Encryptions pmed like 10 people... out of 150 loons? So am I allowed to sell balloons now or not? I mean I didnt receive a msg but still own one. And even if I did. I dont care if a person wants me to keep it, I sell whenever I want for whatever price. I think you guys need to chill, encryptions is right: the house mail of him did not change anything for the reasons he mentioned.
There are people makroing their way in event lbs and most aps lbs to the top with several chars or stand in houses with 20 chars afk collecting gold and you want to ban this guy.

Hi Qua, no need to defend your friend. Feel free to see it different, but your example doesnt match this situation really.
Encryptions wanted to manupilate the prices, and therefor he needed others. The attempt itself is rlly poor and shows his real face. Tricking people for his own benefit. The fact he asked other to join his scam, shows how dedicated he is. Devs stated earlier that this is against the TOS, same goes for the makro users u mentioned above. Both should be removed from game. And this housemail is the one everyone can see, but who knows how many of this messaged we 'missed'.

[Geuimau]

This is 2 years ago when I came back. I had a balloon banner and I was told if I message people to rise the price it would work. Little did I know it doesn't work, it won't work like that and I cringe now for what I said. I wanted my 30m item to go to 50m hence I only had 36m at the time. So 15m profit is huge to me, I sent the message and all things went down hill.
I got death threats by multiple people, I got tted constantly by multiple people. It doesn't stop there, people spamming me, leaving my maps after tting me.
You want proof it didn't work. At the time when balloons went to 50m is the same time kersh bb and ollerus goes up in price too. I didn't own any of those yet I was accused of them rising too.
Right now, balloon goes up and guess what else goes up? Ollerus kersh bb and many other items. I got none of them on me.
I don't get it, why keep bringing back the past on 1 mistake I did when I have done over 100000 good deeds? No one talks about what I have done that is good, just my mistake and tt hah. There are people out there doing way worse yet no one says a word about them?

Sent from my SM-G892A using TapatalkPast is past no one should care about these old things but haters bro

U r one of the best players in this game and and role model for many many players in AL including me

Keep it up all hate u get means u r on the right way of successful

(( Newdose ))

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[THE GOLDEN KING]

I don’t think he should get banned.

1.) This happened around 2 years ago.

2.) He didn’t actually got through with it.

3.) It didn’t even work.


I know, I know, “but the attempt to do it”. That’s fine and all, but I still don’t think he should get banned for it.

I mean it all looks bad on his end because,
-he was buying red balloon banners a few days before inflation hit,

-then he was selling them after inflation hit making it look like he manipulated the price when in reality he didn’t.

-And a screen shot of him “manipulating” those same balloons just so happened to be timed perfectly. To make him look bad.

I don’t buy it, I’m just calling it that most of you just envy him and everything just happened to line up perfectly to make him look bad.


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[QuaseT]

Hi Qua, no need to defend your friend. Feel free to see it different, but your example doesnt match this situation really.
Encryptions wanted to manupilate the prices, and therefor he needed others. The attempt itself is rlly poor and shows his real face. Tricking people for his own benefit. The fact he asked other to join his scam, shows how dedicated he is. Devs stated earlier that this is against the TOS, same goes for the makro users u mentioned above. Both should be removed from game. And this housemail is the one everyone can see, but who knows how many of this messaged we 'missed'.

Yes the attempt is poor. I am not sure if he knew that its banable bc it happened long ago. I believe he sent the mail to all the people mentioned, not more, not less. He would have put them into the list otherwise. In this particular case I would not ban anybody for it. I agree that no good reputation goes within this message and so does he know. I just feel like people are a bit overreacting because this attempt didnt change anything and it looks very weak, just as some new player trying to buy an ign. I believe devs should look into each case and decide if its worth a lifetime ban, a temporary ban or a warning. Just as they do with makro users since theres no protection in form of an "automatic security". If you believe this attempt deserves a ban I can understand why and I'm ok with that choice. But I personally dont think it deserves one no matter if he is a friend or not.

[emc_al]

Past is past no one should care about these old things but haters bro

U r one of the best players in this game and and role model for many many players in AL including me

Keep it up all hate u get means u r on the right way of successful

(( Newdose ))

Sent from my JSN-L22 using TapatalkPast is past and nobody should care about old things?

As far as i know, if u ever break the law and get caught few years later.. U will face consequences whatsoever.

Not saying that he should get banned or not but the 2 years ago excuse isn't a good one

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[Analytical]

Price Manipulation in AL is not a real thing, we the people set the item prices, not STS. To say we should get banned for selling an item at the price we want is to say beggars should get banned for begging. I bet you’re the type of person believe that 500bil inflation is fake and the moon is made out of cheese.

Here you go:
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?478913-The-trend-of-market-value-manipulation/page3&highlight=trend+market
207269

A quick research into past similar forum threads would have answered your ignorance on this topic, perhaps reading more before commenting purely based on your invalidated opinion helps you sound a tiny bit more matured.

[Disclaimer: Before you read any further, my Intention is to hopefully clear up some if not all doubts on the topic of price manipulation, I'm not interested in defending anyone stance nor do I have the time to engage in a meaningless drama]

"Price manipulation is not real in AL"
It seems to me there's clearly a lack of understanding between merching(short term/long term) and manipulation as well as how the price of an item is determined.

"We as the people set the price not STS"
I believe you meant each of us get to decide what price we are eventually gonna sell our items, correct me if I misunderstood you. While that's partially true, think about selling an item say deary egg for 100m, would anyone in their right mind buy? AN INDIVIDUAL DO NOT SET THE PRICE for an item. One person who decides to sell at a particular price contributes to the overall market demand and market supply which ultimately sets the price for that item.

"To say we should get banned for selling an item at the price we want is to say beggars should get banned for begging."
I don't see how is this a relevant analogy, but nice attempt anyway (:

"I bet you’re the type of person believe that 500bil inflation is fake and the moon is made out of cheese"
I appreciate your sense of humor but it seems a completely redundant remark.

Now, Let's get into some real talk.

First, prices of an item goes up and down because of the constantly changing market supply and market demand. For any item, there's a ceiling price(max price) and floor price(min price) people are willing to pay for. Depending on supply of that item, the floor price may be pressured to go lower if supply is abundant, similarly, if demand for that item is high enough while the supply is limited, the ceiling price will be forced to break to a new height. Now, when you decide to sell an item at a price that's within the CURRENT min and max price range(not a day/week/months/years ago), you are selling the item at the current market price.

Merching happens when you buy an item that's below the maximum market price (ceiling price) and sell it at an appropriate time at the ceiling price or higher than the amount of you bought for. Here, your merching profit depends on the gap between the price you bought and the the ceiling price at the time you intend to sell as the market price range changes over time. The Larger the gap, the more profit you get. As a side differentiation from merching, lowballing is when you offer to buy something outside of the min and max bracket people are currently paying for. Of course, there are people willing to sell way below the current market price range when they are in a rush, you did not lowball an offer but rather received a lowball selling price.

As an example:
Let's say mishi egg's current price range is this: 2m = floor price, and 3m = ceiling price. Selling at anywhere within 2m-3m, you are selling at the current market price. Merching means for e.g. you are buying at say 2m and selling at 2.5m.

Manipulation is when you are selling an item that is set by you or a small group of people solely instead of by the overall people in the market. In other words, manipulation involves one or a few individuals attempting to control the entire market supply and demand to create a false and new accepted market price range. In a free market where the demand & supply for an item is not being artificially created, it is not possible to sell at any price you want because market price is determined by actual market demand and market supply a.k.a the average of the sum of all legitimate, interested buyers & willing sellers and not by a single individiual. You might ask: what if I have no intention to manipulate the price I'm just hoarding some of them so that i can sell later when price goes up? Well, this is a very tricky question. (I will attempt to the best of my ability to distinguish the difference between the two) Hoarding can be understood as a form of long term merch, however depending on what you are doing with the items you hoard, you may either be merching or doing something that's against the TOS i.e. actively manipulating the market supply and demand.

As an example:

For anyone who has over 50m, you can very significantly if not entirely control the whole market supply and demand of say magma eggs. Let's assume for simplicity sake the market currently has 1000 magma eggs, i.e. 1000 willing sellers waiting for buyers. Say, initially other than these 1000 legitimate sellers, there are also a 1000 legitimate buyers of magma eggs. Being one of the 1000 legitimate buyers, and the richest among all of them, you bought all the 1000 magma eggs from the 1000 sellers. No one in the market except you has magma eggs. Now, the remaining 999 people who was looking to buy magma egg at the market price now is forced to buy at the price you are willing to sell because only you has magma eggs and nobody else has it. Now this, is market or price manipulation.

How about hoarding? If I hoard all magma eggs and not sell them until after some time would i be considered as manipulating the market? The answer is no. Why? Because the new supply of magma eggs (from new sellers other than the 1000 sellers earlier) will slowly match the demand of 999 people (or possibly more people) in the market to determine a new market price. Yes indeed, the new market price would have raised to a new higher bar from say 10k to now 50k because you hoarded them but you did not manipulate the market in a way that doesn't allow the market to have its free flow of supply and demand, manipulating would mean you actively play a role to control the market at all times (i.e. whenever a new seller of magma eggs appear you buy it, making you the only seller of magma eggs at all time for now and forever or as long as you play AL)

The above are my attempts to provide some over-simplistic examples on how merching/hoarding and price manipulations works. Hopefully it clears some doubts, if anyone has better input, feel free to add (:

[Giant bench]

It not part of the rules... so you end up banning someone’s who not brake rules...

Ah wait I make mistake, what encry did, did break rules. Price manipulation is when you tell other people to sell an item for higher price to try to rise price of the item.


Here you go:
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?478913-The-trend-of-market-value-manipulation/page3&highlight=trend+market
207269

A quick research into past similar forum threads would have answered your ignorance on this topic, perhaps reading more before commenting purely based on your invalidated opinion helps you sound a tiny bit more matured.

[Disclaimer: Before you read any further, my Intention is to hopefully clear up some if not all doubts on the topic of price manipulation, I'm not interested in defending anyone stance nor do I have the time to engage in a meaningless drama]

"Price manipulation is not real in AL"
It seems to me there's clearly a lack of understanding between merching(short term/long term) and manipulation as well as how the price of an item is determined.

"We as the people set the price not STS"
I believe you meant each of us get to decide what price we are eventually gonna sell our items, correct me if I misunderstood you. While that's partially true, think about selling an item say deary egg for 100m, would anyone in their right mind buy? AN INDIVIDUAL DO NOT SET THE PRICE for an item. One person who decides to sell at a particular price contributes to the overall market demand and market supply which ultimately sets the price for that item.

"To say we should get banned for selling an item at the price we want is to say beggars should get banned for begging."
I don't see how is this a relevant analogy, but nice attempt anyway (:

"I bet you’re the type of person believe that 500bil inflation is fake and the moon is made out of cheese"
I appreciate your sense of humor but it seems a completely redundant remark.

Now, Let's get into some real talk.

First, prices of an item goes up and down because of the constantly changing market supply and market demand. For any item, there's a ceiling price(max price) and floor price(min price) people are willing to pay for. Depending on supply of that item, the floor price may be pressured to go lower if supply is abundant, similarly, if demand for that item is high enough while the supply is limited, the ceiling price will be forced to break to a new height. Now, when you decide to sell an item at a price that's within the CURRENT min and max price range(not a day/week/months/years ago), you are selling the item at the current market price.

Merching happens when you buy an item that's below the maximum market price (ceiling price) and sell it at an appropriate time at the ceiling price or higher than the amount of you bought for. Here, your merching profit depends on the gap between the price you bought and the the ceiling price at the time you intend to sell as the market price range changes over time. The Larger the gap, the more profit you get. As a side differentiation from merching, lowballing is when you offer to buy something outside of the min and max bracket people are currently paying for. Of course, there are people willing to sell way below the current market price range when they are in a rush, you did not lowball an offer but rather received a lowball selling price.

As an example:
Let's say mishi egg's current price range is this: 2m = floor price, and 3m = ceiling price. Selling at anywhere within 2m-3m, you are selling at the current market price. Merching means for e.g. you are buying at say 2m and selling at 2.5m.

Manipulation is when you are selling an item that is set by you or a small group of people solely instead of by the overall people in the market. In other words, manipulation involves one or a few individuals attempting to control the entire market supply and demand to create a false and new accepted market price range. In a free market where the demand & supply for an item is not being artificially created, it is not possible to sell at any price you want because market price is determined by actual market demand and market supply a.k.a the average of the sum of all legitimate, interested buyers & willing sellers and not by a single individiual. You might ask: what if I have no intention to manipulate the price I'm just hoarding some of them so that i can sell later when price goes up? Well, this is a very tricky question. (I will attempt to the best of my ability to distinguish the difference between the two) Hoarding can be understood as a form of long term merch, however depending on what you are doing with the items you hoard, you may either be merching or doing something that's against the TOS i.e. actively manipulating the market supply and demand.

As an example:

For anyone who has over 50m, you can very significantly if not entirely control the whole market supply and demand of say magma eggs. Let's assume for simplicity sake the market currently has 1000 magma eggs, i.e. 1000 willing sellers waiting for buyers. Say, initially other than these 1000 legitimate sellers, there are also a 1000 legitimate buyers of magma eggs. Being one of the 1000 legitimate buyers, and the richest among all of them, you bought all the 1000 magma eggs from the 1000 sellers. No one in the market except you has magma eggs. Now, the remaining 999 people who was looking to buy magma egg at the market price now is forced to buy at the price you are willing to sell because only you has magma eggs and nobody else has it. Now this, is market or price manipulation.

How about hoarding? If I hoard all magma eggs and not sell them until after some time would i be considered as manipulating the market? The answer is no. Why? Because the new supply of magma eggs (from new sellers other than the 1000 sellers earlier) will slowly match the demand of 999 people (or possibly more people) in the market to determine a new market price. Yes indeed, the new market price would have raised to a new higher bar from say 10k to now 50k because you hoarded them but you did not manipulate the market in a way that doesn't allow the market to have its free flow of supply and demand, manipulating would mean you actively play a role to control the market at all times (i.e. whenever a new seller of magma eggs appear you buy it, making you the only seller of magma eggs at all time for now and forever or as long as you play AL)

The above are my attempts to provide some over-simplistic examples on how merching/hoarding and price manipulations works. Hopefully it clears some doubts, if anyone has better input, feel free to add (:

Yes I mistake, and I edited my recent post. You didn’t need to write a book about it...

[Analytical]

I don’t think he should get banned.

1.) This happened around 2 years ago.

2.) He didn’t actually got through with it.

3.) It didn’t even work.


I know, I know, “but the attempt to do it”. That’s fine and all, but I still don’t think he should get banned for it.

I mean it all looks bad on his end because,
-he was buying red balloon banners a few days before inflation hit,

-then he was selling them after inflation hit making it look like he manipulated the price when in reality he didn’t.

-And a screen shot of him “manipulating” those same balloons just so happened to be timed perfectly. To make him look bad.

I don’t buy it, I’m just calling it that most of you just envy him and everything just happened to line up perfectly to make him look bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This sounds really biased and defensive relative to your previous constructive comments on inflation.

To clarify, while some may indeed be jealous of his wealth, others who are just as wealthy may not be. Also, that's besides the discussion of whether a falied attempt to commit a crime is a crime.

My question for all the 3 points you gave :
1. That was 2 years ago, what about now? How do we know he's not doing it again or nobody else is doing this? And why does the discussion on price manipulators only limited to him, is it really more important to know who did it in the past or is it more important to know what's actually happening in the now ?
2 & 3. If one failed to kill a person with a knife does that mean that he's free from any punishment when someone reported his behaviour? What would you do assumming you are an objective and unbiased authority?

[THE GOLDEN KING]

This sounds really biased and defensive relative to your previous constructive comments on inflation.

To clarify, while some may indeed be jealous of his wealth, others who are just as wealthy may not be. Also, that's besides the discussion of whether a falied attempt to commit a crime is a crime.

My question for all the 3 points you gave :
1. That was 2 years ago, what about now? How do we know he's not doing it again or nobody else is doing this? And why does the discussion on price manipulators only limited to him, is it really more important to know who did it in the past or is it more important to know what's actually happening in the now ?
2 & 3. If one failed to kill a person with a knife does that mean that he's free from any punishment when someone reported his behaviour? What would you do assumming you are an objective and unbiased authority?

Murder and stealing candy are two completely different things... both have different consequences. But I understand your analogy.

People price manipulate all the time.. with either “Fake C/O” or saying an item is “X price” when in reality it’s “Y price”. It’s nothing new.

You’re right we don’t know if he’s going to do it again. What he did happened at a very bad time.


He bought balloons a few days before inflation hit, then when inflation did hit, he decided to resell them. Then out of no where a screen shot of him trying to manipulate the price of balloons just so happen to be “exposed” at the right time. To make him look bad. Since he bought 3 balloons for 60m and resold them for 100m, it looked like he was price manipulating. When it was just inflation.

Did he make the mistake a few years ago of trying to manipulate the price? Yes

Did he learn from it? I would think so.

Will he do it again? Probably not.

Just like in the real world there are consequences but there are second chances as-well. correct?

It’s up to Devs to decide. Not the communities choice.

Everything just lined up at a bad time, and the people who envy him just so happened to have their pitch forks sharpened and torches lit.

But if you’re asking if he should be banned. My answer is: No, people learn from their mistakes. Just my own opinion, I don’t care if you agree or disagree with me.

In the end it’s the devs decision, not mine.


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[Analytical]

In my opinion he did nothing wrong. The mail he wrote had no affect on the price of loons and the result is he didnt manipulate anything. I would not ban somebody for the attempt alone. Same as I would not ban a new player who writes "selling ign" and doesnt know its banable aslong as he didnt actually do it. Thats my point of few, if u think he should get banned for this thats up to you.

"The mail he wrote had no effect on the price of loons"
- what a huge claim on top of another claim that "he did nothing wrong". Mind to elaborate further how it had ABSOLUTELY no effect?

Let's insist that "he did nothing wrong", are you at the same time implying that we are allowed to do the same(sending as many mails to as many people we can) as well so long as all the recipients don't follow what we suggest them to do?

[QuaseT]

"The mail he wrote had no effect on the price of loons"
- what a huge claim on top of another claim that "he did nothing wrong". Mind to elaborate further how it had ABSOLUTELY no effect?

Let's insist that "he did nothing wrong", are you at the same time implying that we are allowed to do the same(sending as many mails to as many people we can) as well so long as all the recipients don't follow what we suggest them to do?The claim "it had no effect on the price" relates to the price change that did not happen as a result of his mail. The attempt was so weak that at the point he sent that mail the price did not change at all. I explained that already, he sent the mail to 10 people out of 150 and not even all of those followed his advice. If you still decline this you are free to filter the traders market at that date and check the price and sellers.
"He did nothing wrong" was meant according to the ToS and the post the devs provided us. I said that I believe the attempt itself is not banable, therefore he technically did nothing wrong in this case. I can only use information visible for me here, if theres more/other info that makes the case more severe or shows that it wasnt only an unserious attempt my opinion changes instantly. The attempt alone is wrong, makes him look bad and is not considered as right imo. Still if u compare it to remiems post he technically did not do that. No price change, no multiple chars, just a mail to 10 people is not enough. Banning for the attempt alone seems like an overreaction to me.
I dont wanna trigger anyone. This is my opinion and I understand yours aswell. I am trying to be realistic and some of you try to be accurate. Price manipulation is banable, but in this case is so unserious that I wouldnt ban anyone.

[Analytical]

Murder and stealing candy are two completely different things... both have different consequences. But I understand your analogy.

People price manipulate all the time.. with either “Fake C/O” or saying an item is “X price” when in reality it’s “Y price”. It’s nothing new.

You’re right we don’t know if he’s going to do it again. What he did happened at a very bad time.


He bought balloons a few days before inflation hit, then when inflation did hit, he decided to resell them. Then out of no where a screen shot of him trying to manipulate the price of balloons just so happen to be “exposed” at the right time. To make him look bad. Since he bought 3 balloons for 60m and resold them for 100m, it looked like he was price manipulating. When it was just inflation.

Did he make the mistake a few years ago of trying to manipulate the price? Yes

Did he learn from it? I would think so.

Will he do it again? Probably not.

Just like in the real world there are consequences but there are second chances as-well. correct?

It’s up to Devs to decide. Not the communities choice.

Everything just lined up at a bad time, and the people who envy him just so happened to have their pitch forks sharpened and torches lit.

But if you’re asking if he should be banned. My answer is: No, people learn from their mistakes. Just my own opinion, I don’t care if you agree or disagree with me.

In the end it’s the devs decision, not mine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed with you its such as bad timing to be exposed here while we were discussing on why prices of many items are rising, it was a healthy and pretty constructive discussion until the image came out.

Frankly, I'm not interested in commenting more on the person that's has been exposed. Like what you said, this is up to the devs, we can't do anything except providing our views on it for dev to take more wholesome measures as to make future attempts to manipulate the market to be much much harder.

Personally I enjoy having a matured discussion instead of pointing fingers at one another.

Cheers.

[Bundlos]

Still if u compare it to remiems post he technically did not do that. No price change, no multiple chars, just a mail to 10 people is not enough.

Just want to clear out the misunderstanding that the few tactics Remiem hand-picked while writing her response are not the only ones she is referring to as being bannable. When she says "to clear things up, this is bannable", it refers to the entirety of the opening post (since the response was in context to the OP), of which the following is a part:

207278

That does make what the guilty party did/attempted to do a bannable offense

[Titanium]

This is 2 years ago when I came back. I had a balloon banner and I was told if I message people to rise the price it would work. Little did I know it doesn't work, it won't work like that and I cringe now for what I said. I wanted my 30m item to go to 50m hence I only had 36m at the time. So 15m profit is huge to me, I sent the message and all things went down hill.
I got death threats by multiple people, I got tted constantly by multiple people. It doesn't stop there, people spamming me, leaving my maps after tting me.
You want proof it didn't work. At the time when balloons went to 50m is the same time kersh bb and ollerus goes up in price too. I didn't own any of those yet I was accused of them rising too.
Right now, balloon goes up and guess what else goes up? Ollerus kersh bb and many other items. I got none of them on me.
I don't get it, why keep bringing back the past on 1 mistake I did when I have done over 100000 good deeds? No one talks about what I have done that is good, just my mistake and tt hah. There are people out there doing way worse yet no one says a word about them?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Why do you feel we care lmao? nobody going to read that.

[Titanium]

And you guys see why the devs did not put 30k a run in pirate booty. I am sure that event alone added 50+ billion gold to the game even though it had "low" drops.
No one is manipulating any thing, its inflation. I paid 60m each for 3 red balloons and I go to buy more this week and they are 100m+ now so I just decide to screw buying more and sell mine.
Omg I could only imagine the prices if people did 30k a run, adding around 1.2 trillion gold into game. But do becareful because I am sure some items are fake, just ask your guild or a few friends about the price of the item you are buying or selling.
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Espacetimestudios%2Ec om%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D510416&share_tid=510416&share_fid=24169&share_type=t&link_source=app
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?510416-How-booty-economy-time-line-works&highlight=Time+line

this is so cute.

[Redjellydonut]

Exposed


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Oh dear [emoji23][emoji23][emoji24][emoji24] thats embarrassing


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[Redjellydonut]

I can give you 2 good gold sinks.

1.)Adding Awakening event 3-4 times a year for 2 weeks

2.) adding (untradable)
-50m gold vanity set
-75m gold vanity set
-100m gold vanity set
- 200m gold vanity set
-250m gold vanity set
-500m vanity set
-750m vanity set
-999m vanity set.

:NEW 50k gold chest, chance to loot (tradable)
-5m gold vanity weapon
-10m gold vanity weapon
-25m gold vanity weapon
-50m vanity weapon
-100m vanity weapon


: ADD purchasable vanity weapons too(untradable)
- 150m gold vanity weapon
- 250m gold vanity weapon
- 500m gold vanity weapon
- 999m gold vanity weapon.


STS can do so much with sirspendsalot, SO MUCH!! I really hope they have something planned for him. Because I would like all these things I’ve mentioned to be implemented!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I LIKE! Some epic vanities too! Hopefully they aren’t just gold coin themed vanities and super cool badass vanities


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[Titanium]

Past is past and nobody should care about old things?

As far as i know, if u ever break the law and get caught few years later.. U will face consequences whatsoever.

Not saying that he should get banned or not but the 2 years ago excuse isn't a good one

Sent from my TRT-L21A using Tapatalk

Lmao, are you and him in the same boat?

Weren't you the one who actually selling cryo daggers from 20m initial price to 55m?

I can go on and on, cause i've seen the auction tricks which you have pulled, making people believe it you sold ur stuff when you never did, u just cancelled the trade yoo.

[Tackled]

lol someone just listed 20m for a bonesaw in cs aka “ninjers” bro it’s best just to play like a hard core toon and don’t even associate [emoji23] or trade lol


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[gigi]

Yes the attempt is poor. I am not sure if he knew that its banable bc it happened long ago. I believe he sent the mail to all the people mentioned, not more, not less. He would have put them into the list otherwise. In this particular case I would not ban anybody for it. I agree that no good reputation goes within this message and so does he know. I just feel like people are a bit overreacting because this attempt didnt change anything and it looks very weak, just as some new player trying to buy an ign. I believe devs should look into each case and decide if its worth a lifetime ban, a temporary ban or a warning. Just as they do with makro users since theres no protection in form of an "automatic security". If you believe this attempt deserves a ban I can understand why and I'm ok with that choice. But I personally dont think it deserves one no matter if he is a friend or not.


In my opinion he did nothing wrong. The mail he wrote had no affect on the price of loons and the result is he didnt manipulate anything. I would not ban somebody for the attempt alone. Same as I would not ban a new player who writes "selling ign" and doesnt know its banable aslong as he didnt actually do it. Thats my point of few, if u think he should get banned for this thats up to you.

Legally, ignorance to the terms of services proffers no excuse to escape criminal liability. Express consent to the rules governing the game is given every time you log in. Thus, your argument of not knowing whether a conduct is bannable falls short.

Moreover, whether or not the intended consequence eventuated (i.e. ‘your claim that he had no affect on the price of loons and the result is he didn’t manipulate anything’) is irrelevant.
What is of relevance is that he had the requisite intention to commit the act. Legally, an offender attempting to commit a crime is just as liable to criminal prosecution.

Given that he in fact wrote penned mails to more than one individual, the offence of conspiracy to commit an offence is also relevant, and will likely be satisfied. Just so you know, in most cases, prosecutors often prefer charges of conspiracy for two main reasons: easier to achieve a conviction, whilst also allowing the defendant to be subject to the same, if not a harsher penalty (relative to the foundational offence).

[emc_al]

Lmao, are you and him in the same boat?

Weren't you the one who actually selling cryo daggers from 20m initial price to 55m?

I can go on and on, cause i've seen the auction tricks which you have pulled, making people believe it you sold ur stuff when you never did, u just cancelled the trade yoo.First off my response to the Newdose guy i didn't mention anything about encryptions' whole situation. I just had a comment on his quote about the past.

And before saying that i did change the price of cryo Daggers check all these fourm threads selling cryoster daggs for 40-45m even before i auctioned mine.

Obviously after seeing that im not gonna list my daggs for 20m (initial price as u say) even if i bought them for that price.

Same thing with current red banners owners. They don't have to sell thier red banners for 60m cause it's somebody else manipulated the price.



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[Analytical]

First off my response to the Newdose guy i didn't mention anything about encryptions' whole situation. I just had a comment on his quote about the past.

And before saying that i did change the price of cryo Daggers check all these fourm threads selling cryoster daggs for 40-45m even before i auctioned mine.

Obviously after seeing that im not gonna list my daggs for 20m (initial price as u say) even if i bought them for that price.

Same thing with current red banners owners. They don't have to sell thier red banners for 60m cause it's somebody else manipulated the price.



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Regardless of whether you are involved in price manipulations or not, you remain as one of the beficiaries of such action (provided that it did happen) rather than an offender yourself. This is not a reply directed specifically at you as they are many sellers or beneficiaries of such action.

Agreed with you, nothing wrong to ride on the current and sell for profit. The problem that's raised here is that being a beneficiary, there's often little to negligible incentive for one to speak up for those who are at the mercy of price manipulators because it very likely conflicts with their interest to sell for a good profit.

So what happens when everyone just sell their items and ride on the flow and don't give a damn to whoever manipulated the market supply or demand?

You start seeing people becoming toxic to one another in game or in forum because of the conflict of interests (sellers wanna ride on the flow, buyers complain about the possible price manipulations), people trolling in threads, insulting etc the list goes on, which sadly is exactly not what any player in AL would love to experience while buying and selling.

[Titanium]

First off my response to the Newdose guy i didn't mention anything about encryptions' whole situation. I just had a comment on his quote about the past.

And before saying that i did change the price of cryo Daggers check all these fourm threads selling cryoster daggs for 40-45m even before i auctioned mine.

Obviously after seeing that im not gonna list my daggs for 20m (initial price as u say) even if i bought them for that price.

Same thing with current red banners owners. They don't have to sell thier red banners for 60m cause it's somebody else manipulated the price.



Sent from my TRT-L21A using Tapatalk


Didn't you try to manipulate the twinkrazor blades aswell from 5m to double?

Greed actually dictates these nab attempts.

Even if there will be bans in this matter, this will not stop because gold is above community, friends, guildmates, etc.

I rather stay in my own bubble to avoid any bad karma whatsoever.

You need to take the encryptions dude and sail away in a ship called "Cancelled".

[emc_al]

Didn't you try to manipulate the twinkrazor blades aswell from 5m to double?

Greed actually dictates these nab attempts.

Even if there will be bans in this matter, this will not stop because gold is above community, friends, guildmates, etc.

I rather stay in my own bubble to avoid any bad karma whatsoever.

You need to take the encryptions dude and sail away in a ship called "Cancelled".You really miss what the world manipulate actually means.

Listing an item in auction for 9m when it costs 5-6m is overpricing. Basically I'm leaving it there, if anybody wants it they can buy it.

Manipulation is when encryptions asked other owners to make fake buying threads, fake c/os for the item and especially mentioned (Don't list it in auction).

You just sound nothing but jealous with your comments. Stop crying cause you couldn't find what you want for a good price and stop blaming others for it

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[Titanium]

You really miss what the world manipulate actually means.

Listing an item in auction for 9m when it costs 5-6m is overpricing. Basically I'm leaving it there, if anybody wants it they can buy it.

Manipulation is when encryptions asked other owners to make fake buying threads, fake c/os for the item and especially mentioned (Don't list it in auction).

You just sound nothing but jealous with your comments. Stop crying cause you couldn't find what you want for a good price and stop blaming others for it

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Have you ever wondered why your names appears in all manipulation topics doe?

[arcanefid]

The claim "it had no effect on the price" relates to the price change that did not happen as a result of his mail. The attempt was so weak that at the point he sent that mail the price did not change at all. I explained that already, he sent the mail to 10 people out of 150 and not even all of those followed his advice. If you still decline this you are free to filter the traders market at that date and check the price and sellers.
"He did nothing wrong" was meant according to the ToS and the post the devs provided us. I said that I believe the attempt itself is not banable, therefore he technically did nothing wrong in this case. I can only use information visible for me here, if theres more/other info that makes the case more severe or shows that it wasnt only an unserious attempt my opinion changes instantly. The attempt alone is wrong, makes him look bad and is not considered as right imo. Still if u compare it to remiems post he technically did not do that. No price change, no multiple chars, just a mail to 10 people is not enough. Banning for the attempt alone seems like an overreaction to me.
I dont wanna trigger anyone. This is my opinion and I understand yours aswell. I am trying to be realistic and some of you try to be accurate. Price manipulation is banable, but in this case is so unserious that I wouldnt ban anyone.

If you get a gun and try to kill someone, but fail to do it, you will still go in jail for 'attempted murder'. The intentions of the Encryption guy are clear, he should get banned for it based on Remiem's posts related to price manipulation.

[Analytical]

Have you ever wondered why your names appears in all manipulation topics doe?

He/she actually made sense in your example. It's not manipulation. It was decently explained.

To add, setting a personal price with the attempt to change the price of the market is a childish thought alone. The market doesn't just consist of one seller and one buyer. The fact that the item is listed in auction for such a price means that he or she is taking a risk that within the listed period, no one else other than him/her is selling it, hence a chance for the buyer to overpay for an item (this is imperfect knowledge of the buyers, no one knows the price of everything, if the buyer did not check prices before making a purchase, there's no one to blame.)

Maybe you are able to provide another example or continue with a more constructive take on market manipulations.

[Giant bench]

If you get a gun and try to kill someone, but fail to do it, you will still go in jail for 'attempted murder'. The intentions of the Encryption guy are clear, he should get banned for it based on Remiem's posts related to price manipulation.

Killing someone and stealing a bag of chips is two different things... all of you making more dramatical than it really is.

[Analytical]

Killing someone and stealing a bag of chips is two different things... all of you making more dramatical than it really is.

Be careful when you use the word "all", I would not be so righteous about it. That said, I agreed with you to not boil more drama but look at the possible solutions to reduce or even possibly prevent market manipulations by guilty people who are still behind the curtains reading at these comments.

[arcanefid]

Killing someone and stealing a bag of chips is two different things... all of you making more dramatical than it really is.

I said that based on Remiem's post related to price manipulation. I'm not going to dig in forums and find the post because I'm sure you've already seen it. Remiem doesn't mention any value so that means it includes all sorts of price manipulation.

[Giant bench]

Be careful when you use the word "all", I would not be so righteous about it. That said, I agreed with you to not boil more drama but look at the possible solutions to reduce or even possibly prevent market manipulations by guilty people who are still behind the curtains reading at these comments.

You want to know how to reduce item pricing?? Get rid of gold loot. And watch item maul drop to 3m and kershal drop to 7m and bb hooks 5m with in matter of months. Easy.

[PostNoob]

You want to know how to reduce item pricing?? Get rid of gold loot. And watch item maul drop to 3m and kershal drop to 7m and bb hooks 5m with in matter of months. Easy.

Im paying upwards of 10$/Lb for ground beef atm, before this huge economic downturn, it was half that. So cutting off revenue would more than likely follow real economics and prices would go up. Unless demand for those items drop, you wouldnt see a massive decline in value, but probably an upturn.

Sometimes easy isnt the answer.

[Giant bench]

Im paying upwards of 10$/Lb for ground beef atm, before this huge economic downturn, it was half that. So cutting off revenue would more than likely follow real economics and prices would go up. Unless demand for those items drop, you wouldnt see a massive decline in value, but probably an upturn.

Sometimes easy isnt the answer.

That’s what I’m getting at, if people have no gold to buy maul for 100m people over time will start selling for lower price. That’s how it works what’s the point of you Trying to sell a frank set worth 1bil if everyone around you Has maximum gold of 50m or less.

[QuaseT]

If you get a gun and try to kill someone, but fail to do it, you will still go in jail for 'attempted murder'. The intentions of the Encryption guy are clear, he should get banned for it based on Remiem's posts related to price manipulation.Unless its a toygun - the punishment decreases drastically. And thats how I see this attempt. Shameful but unrealistic and unserious... imo

[Analytical]

You really miss what the world manipulate actually means.

Listing an item in auction for 9m when it costs 5-6m is overpricing. Basically I'm leaving it there, if anybody wants it they can buy it.

Manipulation is when encryptions asked other owners to make fake buying threads, fake c/os for the item and especially mentioned (Don't list it in auction).

You just sound nothing but jealous with your comments. Stop crying cause you couldn't find what you want for a good price and stop blaming others for it

Sent from my TRT-L21A using Tapatalk

Aight, I will attempt to add on what manipulation means as well. If you think it's too long or are lazy to read, feel free to skip it. Not forcing anyone to understand it better. That said, don't shy away from correcting me if you think I made a mistake.

It seems to me some if not many are still confused with the act of hoarding an item regardless of its quantity, versus manipulating the market supply and demand of an item.

Manipulation means you are trying to control or in another words, bold enough to SET the market price for AN item in the SHORT TERM, by artificially creating the market demand (fake offers) and market supply(taking down the whole auction 24/7). Usually the latter seems easier to most richie. And how can one do that? Well you need to make sure no one other than you and a few others agreed with a standard price that's being set, hence effectively manipulating the price of that particular item at you or your monopoly group's will. Chances are, if you see a sudden, often RIDICULOUS rise in price of an item of any kind in a relatively SHORT span of time, its likely and suspicious enough for the result of market manipulations.

That said, is it easy to control the entire market of one relatively expensive item? Big no. How many people in AL can do that if the market has for example over 1,000,000 supply of the same item, say each one of it cost 1m? I would say only a pathetic few. And bear in mind this is just one item, let alone to control most if not all of the items with different price range in AL. Which is why, when market manipulations happen, its usually not just one person (in this case the person that has been exposed here), but very likely a collective few elite players that's doing it to a few items they deem to be profitable.

On the other hand, Hoarding implies that you are going to "hoard" literally the meaning of the word itself is to KEEP for the LONG TERM and not selling it until new market supply catches up with new market demand to determine a new accepted market price range. There's no manipulation involved here. You simply created a LARGE VOLUME (not depleting all supply in market, like in the case of manipulation would require) OF DEMAND for an item in the short term that is certainly gonna affect the new market price because now the supply seems to be temporarily in shortage before supply from other unaware sellers slowly RECOVER again to bring its price down to its previous price range or a slightly higher price range.

An example of how hoarding affect market price is the last day of eggsaviers, many decided that hey its the last day of the event, I should hoard some eggs! There was a sudden acceptable spike in prices of eggs and then slowly it dropped back as people who have been holding their eggs in their stash release it to the market.

To reiterate, unlike manipulation, hoarding does not attempt to take down ALL supply in the market (even though the buyer may think so when the auction is empty because of him), so you are less likely to create a ridiculous spike in prices in the short term, although price will certainly and likely increase rather significantly.

In short, if you aren't wealthy enough to take down all supply in the market ("market" here is not just the auction alone, it includes all sellers, can be found in towns/people u know of) or collaborate with others to do so, there's no way A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL(or a few elite individuals on an agreement) can SET the market price for an item. Which is to say, you can't be involved with price or market manipulations IF AND ONLY IF you can't succeed in SETTING the new market price base on your command alone.

That's my go at it, hope it helps. Feel free to add your input.

[Titanium]

He/she actually made sense in your example. It's not manipulation. It was decently explained.

To add, setting a personal price with the attempt to change the price of the market is a childish thought alone. The market doesn't just consist of one seller and one buyer. The fact that the item is listed in auction for such a price means that he or she is taking a risk that within the listed period, no one else other than him/her is selling it, hence a chance for the buyer to overpay for an item (this is imperfect knowledge of the buyers, no one knows the price of everything, if the buyer did not check prices before making a purchase, there's no one to blame.)

Maybe you are able to provide another example or continue with a more constructive take on market manipulations.

You hit me with the long text and i'm not looking to debate this more, i know what i know.

Encryptions had his argument aswell before being exposed.

Please excuse for my non-constructive actions on this thread.

[arcanefid]

Unless its a toygun - the punishment decreases drastically. And thats how I see this attempt. Shameful but unrealistic and unserious... imo

We can agree to disagree for this case. :p

[Jausa]

Aight, I will attempt to add on what manipulation means as well. If you think it's too long or are lazy to read, feel free to skip it. Not forcing anyone to understand it better. That said, don't shy away from correcting me if you think I made a mistake.

It seems to me some if not many are still confused with the act of hoarding an item regardless of its quantity, versus manipulating the market supply and demand of an item.

Manipulation means you are trying to control or in another words, bold enough to SET the market price for AN item in the SHORT TERM, by artificially creating the market demand (fake offers) and market supply(taking down the whole auction 24/7). Usually the latter seems easier to most richie. And how can one do that? Well you need to make sure no one other than you and a few others agreed with a standard price that's being set, hence effectively manipulating the price of that particular item at you or your monopoly group's will. Chances are, if you see a sudden, often RIDICULOUS rise in price of an item of any kind in a relatively SHORT span of time, its likely and suspicious enough for the result of market manipulations.

That said, is it easy to control the entire market of one relatively expensive item? Big no. How many people in AL can do that if the market has for example over 1,000,000 supply of the same item, say each one of it cost 1m? I would say only a pathetic few. And bear in mind this is just one item, let alone to control most if not all of the items with different price range in AL. Which is why, when market manipulations happen, its usually not just one person (in this case the person that has been exposed here), but very likely a collective few elite players that's doing it to a few items they deem to be profitable.

On the other hand, Hoarding implies that you are going to "hoard" literally the meaning of the word itself is to KEEP for the LONG TERM and not selling it until new market supply catches up with new market demand to determine a new accepted market price range. There's no manipulation involved here. You simply created a LARGE VOLUME (not depleting all supply in market, like in the case of manipulation would require) OF DEMAND for an item in the short term that is certainly gonna affect the new market price because now the supply seems to be temporarily in shortage before supply from other unaware sellers slowly RECOVER again to bring its price down to its previous price range or a slightly higher price range.

An example of how hoarding affect market price is the last day of eggsaviers, many decided that hey its the last day of the event, I should hoard some eggs! There was a sudden acceptable spike in prices of eggs and then slowly it dropped back as people who have been holding their eggs in their stash release it to the market.

To reiterate, unlike manipulation, hoarding does not attempt to take down ALL supply in the market (even though the buyer may think so when the auction is empty because of him), so you are less likely to create a ridiculous spike in prices in the short term, although price will certainly and likely increase rather significantly.

In short, if you aren't wealthy enough to take down all supply in the market ("market" here is not just the auction alone, it includes all sellers, can be found in towns/people u know of) or collaborate with others to do so, there's no way A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL(or a few elite individuals on an agreement) can SET the market price for an item. Which is to say, you can't be involved with price or market manipulations IF AND ONLY IF you can't succeed in SETTING the new market price base on your command alone.

That's my go at it, hope it helps. Feel free to add your input.Nobody cares about your definitions Mr Dictionary. "Not forcing anyone to understand it better" understand what better? Your subjective point of view? Your opinion? such a genius, hence the name "Analytical" [emoji23] bet you are fun at a party dude

[Analytical]

Nobody cares about your definitions Mr Dictionary. "Not forcing anyone to understand it better" understand what better? Your subjective point of view? Your opinion? such a genius, hence the name "Analytical" [emoji23] bet you are fun at a party dude

Before you completely demolish my effort to discuss the issue, bear in mind that a forum is the exact place you discuss your opinions/views/experience with other matured people alike. If you feel this is too much for your current age, nobody is forcing you to stay.

To make things worse, If you couldn't even care to read the whole thing respectfully like a grown up adult before jumping into your "hilarious" conclusions unlike what The Golden King did, do not expect me to care either. If anything, you are only effectively making your comment having absolutely zero value to this thread/forum discussion other than a free bump to get the dev's attention. In stark contrast, having read my previous comment, The Golden King at the very least provided few thoughtful and constructive response/suggestions which adds depth to the discussion, what have you done on the other hand other than trying to fan a drama?

Also, If you have read more comprehensively instead of intentionally handpicking some holes in my statements to start a fight/drama, you would see I clearly stated that if anyone has better ways of illustrating the difference feel free to correct me.

Last, If you are gonna continue to be salty and try to initiate an offence, I'm not gonna waste any more of my time responding to you.

Peace out.

[Titanium]

Before you completely demolish my effort to discuss the issue, bear in mind that a forum is the exact place you discuss your opinions/views/experience with other matured people alike. If you feel this is too much for your current age, nobody is forcing you to stay.

To make things worse, If you couldn't even care to read the whole thing respectfully like a grown up adult before jumping into your "hilarious" conclusions unlike what The Golden King did, do not expect me to care either. If anything, you are only effectively making your comment having absolutely zero value to this thread/forum discussion other than a free bump to get the dev's attention. In stark contrast, having read my previous comment, The Golden King at the very least provided few thoughtful and constructive response/suggestions which adds depth to the discussion, what have you done on the other hand other than trying to fan a drama?

Also, If you have read more comprehensively instead of intentionally handpicking some holes in my statements to start a fight/drama, you would see I clearly stated that if anyone has better ways of illustrating the difference feel free to correct me.

Last, If you are gonna continue to be salty and try to initiate an offence, I'm not gonna waste any more of my time responding to you.

Peace out.

golden king and encryptions are actually friends in game.

we really dont care anymore about explanations nor constructive arguments.

We are living it with it at this point, stop making long arguments cause nobody has time to read that.

You cannot repair his image or his actions.

[Giant bench]

Before you completely demolish my effort to discuss the issue, bear in mind that a forum is the exact place you discuss your opinions/views/experience with other matured people alike. If you feel this is too much for your current age, nobody is forcing you to stay.

To make things worse, If you couldn't even care to read the whole thing respectfully like a grown up adult before jumping into your "hilarious" conclusions unlike what The Golden King did, do not expect me to care either. If anything, you are only effectively making your comment having absolutely zero value to this thread/forum discussion other than a free bump to get the dev's attention. In stark contrast, having read my previous comment, The Golden King at the very least provided few thoughtful and constructive response/suggestions which adds depth to the discussion, what have you done on the other hand other than trying to fan a drama?

Also, If you have read more comprehensively instead of intentionally handpicking some holes in my statements to start a fight/drama, you would see I clearly stated that if anyone has better ways of illustrating the difference feel free to correct me.

Last, If you are gonna continue to be salty and try to initiate an offence, I'm not gonna waste any more of my time responding to you.

Peace out.

I wouldn’t pay attention to him, he believes inflation is a myth and says the 500 billion gold added into the game is “fake/irrelevant”.

Even though CINCO the CEO of AL confirmed it was true.

[Analytical]

golden king and encryptions are actually friends in game.

we really dont care anymore about explanations nor constructive arguments.

We are living it with it at this point, stop making long arguments cause nobody has time to read that.

You cannot repair his image or his actions.

Hey bud, appreciate the respectful response.

Just to clarify my response above long or short, is not intended to defend the individual exposed here nor do I have the time to offend anyone, if I did appear to be, my apologies. My sole intention is to hopefully provide some perspectives to the topic on price manipulations like what many others here have done.

And thanks for the feedback on my long arguements, I joined forum just a few weeks ago, didn't know that only short comments are allowed here. Pardon my ignorance.

Cheers

[Jausa]

I wouldn’t pay attention to him, he believes inflation is a myth and says the 500 billion gold added into the game is “fake/irrelevant”.

Even though CINCO the CEO of AL confirmed it was true.Inflation isn't a myth. Inflation through these recent events bumping up the prices of top tier items 3 times up is a myth, just to cover up and justify price manipulation/overpricing. This event wasn't that profitable to cause inflation like nothing ever caused before. 300b-500b gold? I know what the CEO said, I also know that if gold droped from chests was calculated then the number is incorrect. A lot of chests bought from auction were listed at 40k and were opened just to drop 12k gold. That number would be correct ONLY if chests dropped more gold than their cost was to open/buy or if the chests were not tradable.

[Giant bench]

Inflation isn't a myth. Inflation through these recent events bumping up the prices of top tier items 3 times up is a myth, just to cover up and justify price manipulation/overpricing. This event wasn't that profitable to cause inflation like nothing ever caused before. 300b-500b gold? I know what the CEO said, I also know that if gold droped from chests was calculated then the number is incorrect. A lot of chests bought from auction were listed at 40k and were opened just to drop 12k gold. That number would be correct ONLY if chests dropped more gold than their cost was to open/buy or if the chests were not tradable.
See told you he’s a moron Sorry.

Cinco confirm number is true and yet you still deny it. Smh this is my last post. Again sorry for calling you a moron but kinda hard not to call you one. Again am sorry.

[Jausa]

See told you he’s a moron Sorry.

Cinco confirm number is true and yet you still deny it. Smh this is my last post. Again sorry for calling you a moron but kinda hard not to call you one. Again am sorry.I did NOT deny it. I said it's incorrect because the chests were tradable and cost gold to open, most of the time more gold to open than the gold they dropped. You are the moron here for not comprehending such a simple thing. Say whatever you want, I couldn't care less.

[Overbear]

Aight, I will attempt to add on what manipulation means as well. If you think it's too long or are lazy to read, feel free to skip it. Not forcing anyone to understand it better. That said, don't shy away from correcting me if you think I made a mistake.

It seems to me some if not many are still confused with the act of hoarding an item regardless of its quantity, versus manipulating the market supply and demand of an item.

Manipulation means you are trying to control or in another words, bold enough to SET the market price for AN item in the SHORT TERM, by artificially creating the market demand (fake offers) and market supply(taking down the whole auction 24/7). Usually the latter seems easier to most richie. And how can one do that? Well you need to make sure no one other than you and a few others agreed with a standard price that's being set, hence effectively manipulating the price of that particular item at you or your monopoly group's will. Chances are, if you see a sudden, often RIDICULOUS rise in price of an item of any kind in a relatively SHORT span of time, its likely and suspicious enough for the result of market manipulations.

That said, is it easy to control the entire market of one relatively expensive item? Big no. How many people in AL can do that if the market has for example over 1,000,000 supply of the same item, say each one of it cost 1m? I would say only a pathetic few. And bear in mind this is just one item, let alone to control most if not all of the items with different price range in AL. Which is why, when market manipulations happen, its usually not just one person (in this case the person that has been exposed here), but very likely a collective few elite players that's doing it to a few items they deem to be profitable.

On the other hand, Hoarding implies that you are going to "hoard" literally the meaning of the word itself is to KEEP for the LONG TERM and not selling it until new market supply catches up with new market demand to determine a new accepted market price range. There's no manipulation involved here. You simply created a LARGE VOLUME (not depleting all supply in market, like in the case of manipulation would require) OF DEMAND for an item in the short term that is certainly gonna affect the new market price because now the supply seems to be temporarily in shortage before supply from other unaware sellers slowly RECOVER again to bring its price down to its previous price range or a slightly higher price range.

An example of how hoarding affect market price is the last day of eggsaviers, many decided that hey its the last day of the event, I should hoard some eggs! There was a sudden acceptable spike in prices of eggs and then slowly it dropped back as people who have been holding their eggs in their stash release it to the market.

To reiterate, unlike manipulation, hoarding does not attempt to take down ALL supply in the market (even though the buyer may think so when the auction is empty because of him), so you are less likely to create a ridiculous spike in prices in the short term, although price will certainly and likely increase rather significantly.

In short, if you aren't wealthy enough to take down all supply in the market ("market" here is not just the auction alone, it includes all sellers, can be found in towns/people u know of) or collaborate with others to do so, there's no way A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL(or a few elite individuals on an agreement) can SET the market price for an item. Which is to say, you can't be involved with price or market manipulations IF AND ONLY IF you can't succeed in SETTING the new market price base on your command alone.

That's my go at it, hope it helps. Feel free to add your input.

I'm confused, why are you comparing the definitions of each? That's like saying the word "chicken" refers to a chicken, but the word "rooster" refers to a rooster. They're not going to have the same definition. Just because Hoarding doesn't directly equal manipulation. doesnt mean that hoarding isn't a FORM of manipulation. Atleast in terms of the AL gold market. And hoarding isn't always done long term. Hoarding is usually done until you can turn a profit, which considering if there are only a few of the item, and they all decide to make price go up, then they can successfully turn a profit in the matter of a few days. Just stop, please.

[Analytical]

Here you go:
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?478913-The-trend-of-market-value-manipulation/page3&highlight=trend+market
207269

A quick research into past similar forum threads would have answered your ignorance on this topic, perhaps reading more before commenting purely based on your invalidated opinion helps you sound a tiny bit more matured.

[Disclaimer: Before you read any further, my Intention is to hopefully clear up some if not all doubts on the topic of price manipulation, I'm not interested in defending anyone stance nor do I have the time to engage in a meaningless drama]

"Price manipulation is not real in AL"
It seems to me there's clearly a lack of understanding between merching(short term/long term) and manipulation as well as how the price of an item is determined.

"We as the people set the price not STS"
I believe you meant each of us get to decide what price we are eventually gonna sell our items, correct me if I misunderstood you. While that's partially true, think about selling an item say deary egg for 100m, would anyone in their right mind buy? AN INDIVIDUAL DO NOT SET THE PRICE for an item. One person who decides to sell at a particular price contributes to the overall market demand and market supply which ultimately sets the price for that item.

"To say we should get banned for selling an item at the price we want is to say beggars should get banned for begging."
I don't see how is this a relevant analogy, but nice attempt anyway (:

"I bet you’re the type of person believe that 500bil inflation is fake and the moon is made out of cheese"
I appreciate your sense of humor but it seems a completely redundant remark.

Now, Let's get into some real talk.

First, prices of an item goes up and down because of the constantly changing market supply and market demand. For any item, there's a ceiling price(max price) and floor price(min price) people are willing to pay for. Depending on supply of that item, the floor price may be pressured to go lower if supply is abundant, similarly, if demand for that item is high enough while the supply is limited, the ceiling price will be forced to break to a new height. Now, when you decide to sell an item at a price that's within the CURRENT min and max price range(not a day/week/months/years ago), you are selling the item at the current market price.

Merching happens when you buy an item that's below the maximum market price (ceiling price) and sell it at an appropriate time at the ceiling price or higher than the amount of you bought for. Here, your merching profit depends on the gap between the price you bought and the the ceiling price at the time you intend to sell as the market price range changes over time. The Larger the gap, the more profit you get. As a side differentiation from merching, lowballing is when you offer to buy something outside of the min and max bracket people are currently paying for. Of course, there are people willing to sell way below the current market price range when they are in a rush, you did not lowball an offer but rather received a lowball selling price.

As an example:
Let's say mishi egg's current price range is this: 2m = floor price, and 3m = ceiling price. Selling at anywhere within 2m-3m, you are selling at the current market price. Merching means for e.g. you are buying at say 2m and selling at 2.5m.

Manipulation is when you are selling an item that is set by you or a small group of people solely instead of by the overall people in the market. In other words, manipulation involves one or a few individuals attempting to control the entire market supply and demand to create a false and new accepted market price range. In a free market where the demand & supply for an item is not being artificially created, it is not possible to sell at any price you want because market price is determined by actual market demand and market supply a.k.a the average of the sum of all legitimate, interested buyers & willing sellers and not by a single individiual. You might ask: what if I have no intention to manipulate the price I'm just hoarding some of them so that i can sell later when price goes up? Well, this is a very tricky question. (I will attempt to the best of my ability to distinguish the difference between the two) Hoarding can be understood as a form of long term merch, however depending on what you are doing with the items you hoard, you may either be merching or doing something that's against the TOS i.e. actively manipulating the market supply and demand.

As an example:

For anyone who has over 50m, you can very significantly if not entirely control the whole market supply and demand of say magma eggs. Let's assume for simplicity sake the market currently has 1000 magma eggs, i.e. 1000 willing sellers waiting for buyers. Say, initially other than these 1000 legitimate sellers, there are also a 1000 legitimate buyers of magma eggs. Being one of the 1000 legitimate buyers, and the richest among all of them, you bought all the 1000 magma eggs from the 1000 sellers. No one in the market except you has magma eggs. Now, the remaining 999 people who was looking to buy magma egg at the market price now is forced to buy at the price you are willing to sell because only you has magma eggs and nobody else has it. Now this, is market or price manipulation.

How about hoarding? If I hoard all magma eggs and not sell them until after some time would i be considered as manipulating the market? The answer is no. Why? Because the new supply of magma eggs (from new sellers other than the 1000 sellers earlier) will slowly match the demand of 999 people (or possibly more people) in the market to determine a new market price. Yes indeed, the new market price would have raised to a new higher bar from say 10k to now 50k because you hoarded them but you did not manipulate the market in a way that doesn't allow the market to have its free flow of supply and demand, manipulating would mean you actively play a role to control the market at all times (i.e. whenever a new seller of magma eggs appear you buy it, making you the only seller of magma eggs at all time for now and forever or as long as you play AL)

The above are my attempts to provide some over-simplistic examples on how merching/hoarding and price manipulations works. Hopefully it clears some doubts, if anyone has better input, feel free to add (:

Here you go overbear if you care enough to read, if not we are still cool (The above is part 1)

To clarify on your question on why I had to define the two, my attempt is to suggest that under few specific circumstances, hoarding is NOT considered as a form of market manipulations and vice versa.

Appreciate that you bring up the fact that hoarding doesn't necessarily mean long term, thanks for pointing that out.

Would love to hear you inputs too, either you chose to read and remained silent or replied with a new input, I would respect your decision. Cheers.

[Dropdamic]

Sad what people will do to make pixel gold.

[Lookupnabs]

Fake prices and manipulation is what made many players rich including all the youtubers and people who got merched/scammed have quit and now only toxic people like the above exist .... so no point talking now........

Toxicity level-

(Buy all rush sales cheap / sell egg no merch , lowballs autoignored and reported)

- all i see is this is pp and expedition
so is beyond help........
- friend Arlorian( mage)

[Tampia]

I don’t get all these barks about “fake C.o” if y’all don’t like the Current offer Or it’s too high then just say pass cuz they probably have auto price for that item THATS why it’s “Current Offer”. If y’all don’t like the price or the offer of the player or the player they just made up, then find another seller or buy from auction. No need for all these panic and complain like someone is about to end your life like... if you think their “current offer” is too high then pass, move on to another seller. Not everything is for free. If you can’t buy it, then don’t. If you don’t like the price, then don’t buy it. Simple. People’s brain these days [emoji849]. U come to that seller while interested in their Item, don’t cry and complain about their prices. It’s their item and it’s their property. Just Wish them Good luck for it to sell lol


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[Lookupnabs]

I don’t get all these barks about “fake C.o” if y’all don’t like the Current offer Or it’s too high then just say pass cuz they probably have auto price for that item THATS why it’s “Current Offer”. If y’all don’t like the price or the offer of the player or the player they just made up, then find another seller or buy from auction. No need for all these panic and complain like someone is about to end your life like... if you think their “current offer” is too high then pass, move on to another seller. Not everything is for free. If you can’t buy it, then don’t. If you don’t like the price, then don’t buy it. Simple. People’s brain these days [emoji849]. U come to that seller while interested in their Item, don’t cry and complain about their prices. It’s their item and it’s their property. Just Wish them Good luck for it to sell lol


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Fyi this ruins game experience when everyone says the same .. i hardly log on .. to see overpricers and toxic players everywhere...

[The balde of shakuras]

Fake prices and manipulation is what made many players rich including all the youtubers and people who got merched/scammed have quit and now only toxic people like the above exist .... so no point talking now........

Toxicity level-

(Buy all rush sales cheap / sell egg no merch , lowballs autoignored and reported)

- all i see is this is pp and expedition
so is beyond help........
- friend Arlorian( mage)

every point of this is true