Enchants

[holdmytalons]

Str dex int and m/s h/s enchants suould be removed just keep armor damage and health so enchanting isnt as cancerous

[Bidigeldi]

Remove lower values and only keep max values so enchanting isnt as cancerous

[Vapourised]

Str dex int and m/s h/s enchants suould be removed just keep armor damage and health so enchanting isnt as cancerous

The purpose of enchanting wasn't to make for an interesting or fun feature. Nor was it for trying out different gear set ups with different enchants or to create variety. It would be nice if this were true and this was exactly what we thought the enchanting system would promote.

Instead if it was nefarious scheme to force people to go endgame cos they made the levelling in this game hard af. So they forced people to take the p2w grinding method i.e spending platinum.

The point of enchants was to kill low level pvp and bring revenue from grinding to endgame. And also bring in revenue from those unskilled players (aka new people) who couldn't handle regular pvp so decided to overspend on enchanting. The emphasis was on milking money not player satisfaction.

If enchantments were intended to be an enjoyable feature, there wouldn't be an RNG element to it. we wouldn't have trash stats in the reroll table. We wouldn't have to risk losing a good slot to get a better one.

Bottomline is: You have nice suggestions and I really wish for them to be implemented but it is kind of pointless to bring them up. I'm not faulting you. I just think that there's no chance that feedback will be acknowledged by the devs because of how they are. Money first, player consideration at the bottom. But they it's worth a try I guess.




Major rant (possibly full of ignorance):
As well as some questions for people who were there when pvp died @MageFFA e.g.

I don't really want to tell people how to spend their money but as soon as people started enchanting and buying QTRs, pvp was doomed. It's essentially like saying 'yes i support these trash updates please kill the game even more!'.
I have no clue how low level pvp died so if someone could fill me in I would be grateful. I returned in 2020 so missed that bit but I can speculate.

A group of boosters, noobs, trolls (the less desirable sort) decided to enchant and buy QTR to gain an unfair advantage. Now this wasn't really a problem since my guess is that only a handful of players did these. Hardly anyone's that pathetic right? Then, what I call the normal people, tried to pvp as usual but were kind of forced to indulge in these toxic features too. And that was the nail in the coffin.
And that point there was a lot of enchanting and purchases of QTR weapons. Cinco decides to let these stay because of how popular they are and how much revenue they bring in. That makes sense. Who would get rid of their money makers?

I feel like, while yes Cinco does introduce features we disagree with, players should shoulder some of the blame for supporting those features with purchases. Because why would Cinco keep a feature that wasn't making money? I'm sorry if I come across as judgmental but I believe that people should have resisted the temptation to enchant or buy QTR to defend themselves. The storm would have passed. Cinco would realize his error and would have removed those features just like he did with no pvp restrictions.

What happened to the good ol' booting and private games? Booting would have surely been fine since only a few players enchanted and bought QTR at the start (pure guess again)? Let me reiterate that. If there's like only 5 boosters in the whole of pvp from 56-71, booting shouldn't be an issue.
We as a low lvl pvp community managed to survive and reverse no pvp restrictions so why wasn't enchants/ QTRs within our scope?
Also why did people quit these lvls and not just host private games? Was it because people were dishonest saying they had clean gear when they did not?

Just want to say that I'm guessing these are the reasons for 51-76 dying as well as logical solutions that would have forced devs to remove enchants or QTRs.

P.S: Just wanted to quickly add: I'm in no way shape or form blaming/judging people who bought QTR or enchants. It is understandable. All I am suggesting is that perhaps there was a better approach to 'if you can't beat them, join em'. I.e booting, hosting private games until the disliked features were removed all together.
Would this approach have saved pvp? I'm not entirely sure. It's very easy for me to say these things in hindsight.



Also @Estate
Ik ur not going to agree with this at all so you might not want to waste ur time here. Thanks.

@Cinco Wasn't trying to be rude in my posts. Just providing my perspective on why I think the game moved in the direction it did. I understand that STS is a business at the end of the day and it would pay to remember that.

[MageFFA]

The purpose of enchanting wasn't to make for an interesting or fun feature. Nor was it for trying out different gear set ups with different enchants or to create variety. It would be nice if this were true and this was exactly what we thought the enchanting system would promote.

Instead if it was nefarious scheme to force people to go endgame cos they made the levelling in this game hard af. So they forced people to take the p2w grinding method i.e spending platinum.

The point of enchants was to kill low level pvp and bring revenue from grinding to endgame. And also bring in revenue from those unskilled players (aka new people) who couldn't handle regular pvp so decided to overspend on enchanting. The emphasis was on milking money not player satisfaction.

If enchantments were intended to be an enjoyable feature, there wouldn't be an RNG element to it. we wouldn't have trash stats in the reroll table. We wouldn't have to risk losing a good slot to get a better one.

Bottomline is: You have nice suggestions and I really wish for them to be implemented but it is kind of pointless to bring them up. I'm not faulting you. I just think that there's no chance that feedback will be acknowledged by the devs because of how they are. Money first, player consideration at the bottom. But they it's worth a try I guess.




Major rant (possibly full of ignorance):
As well as some questions for people who were there when pvp died @MageFFA e.g.

I don't really want to tell people how to spend their money but as soon as people started enchanting and buying QTRs, pvp was doomed. It's essentially like saying 'yes i support these trash updates please kill the game even more!'.
I have no clue how low level pvp died so if someone could fill me in I would be grateful. I returned in 2020 so missed that bit but I can speculate.

A group of boosters, noobs, trolls (the less desirable sort) decided to enchant and buy QTR to gain an unfair advantage. Now this wasn't really a problem since my guess is that only a handful of players did these. Hardly anyone's that pathetic right? Then, what I call the normal people, tried to pvp as usual but were kind of forced to indulge in these toxic features too. And that was the nail in the coffin.
And that point there was a lot of enchanting and purchases of QTR weapons. Cinco decides to let these stay because of how popular they are and how much revenue they bring in. That makes sense. Who would get rid of their money makers?

I feel like, while yes Cinco does introduce features we disagree with, players should shoulder some of the blame for supporting those features with purchases. Because why would Cinco keep a feature that wasn't making money? I'm sorry if I come across as judgmental but I believe that people should have resisted the temptation to enchant or buy QTR to defend themselves. The storm would have passed. Cinco would realize his error and would have removed those features just like he did with no pvp restrictions.

What happened to the good ol' booting and private games? Booting would have surely been fine since only a few players enchanted and bought QTR at the start (pure guess again)? Let me reiterate that. If there's like only 5 boosters in the whole of pvp from 56-71, booting shouldn't be an issue.
We as a low lvl pvp community managed to survive and reverse no pvp restrictions so why wasn't enchants/ QTRs within our scope?
Also why did people quit these lvls and not just host private games? Was it because people were dishonest saying they had clean gear when they did not?

Just want to say that I'm guessing these are the reasons for 51-76 dying as well as logical solutions that would have forced devs to remove enchants or QTRs.

P.S: Just wanted to quickly add: I'm in no way shape or form blaming/judging people who bought QTR or enchants. It is understandable. All I am suggesting is that perhaps there was a better approach to 'if you can't beat them, join em'. I.e booting, hosting private games until the disliked features were removed all together.
Would this approach have saved pvp? I'm not entirely sure. It's very easy for me to say these things in hindsight.



Also @Estate
Ik ur not going to agree with this at all so you might not want to waste ur time here. Thanks.

@Cinco Wasn't trying to be rude in my posts. Just providing my perspective on why I think the game moved in the direction it did. I understand that STS is a business at the end of the day and it would pay to remember that.

If i was going to do a timeline for when twink initially started to become the dead horse being stomped on I'd go about it like this. First we start in 2015 when the 2 level PvP restrictions came into existence. This effected many zones on a negative scale because it cut off many large player pools from playing with each other. Example 15 and 20, 22 and 27, 30 and 35, 35 and 40, 51 and 56, 56 and 61, 61 and 66, last but not least 66 and 71. Overall a bad idea at the time but the devs had their reasoning. Many trolls kept complaining about level advantages in PvP dispite most of them already having a higher level to use anyways.

2016 is where is officially started for me. 2016 saw 100% nerf on ALL gears from 5 to 77. We are talking a 50% Crit reduction, a 12% damage reduction, a 50% hit reduction, a 10% armor reduction, a 50% dodge reduction. At 71 and above the damage output was lowered by 20% while 70 and below was nerfed by 12%. For a while 70 was actually better than 71+, still is the case if 3pc doesn't have a role in the matchup. I can remember vividly my 70 crusher rhino beating down 76 savage bears with egg. All in all. Worst update ever. Caused many to quit with StS bringing back every item, meaning making everyrhing tradable including gear that players had to cap certain levels for. Plus a mass ban of 300 players myself included.

2017 is a blur. I left the 3pc infested twink PvP during this time to go to 71 then endgame. I don't believe any major update occurred this year but i think a valentine update came that buffed the valentine items and gave out more from item packs.

2018 sheesh. 2018 saw the removal of ALL PvP restrictions. This is what actually ended twink originally. With no PvP restrictions it became impossible to play twink any longer. 100s was boosting off of 15s and 35s, and the only thing the devs had to say about it was hosting private games. It was like this all the way to the end of the year. I practically gave up on PL while this was happening. It eventually was put back to normal but the damage was already done. I brought back 56-71 with Logan, ducky, and we had a thriving community there for a while. We even had a tournament in 71, if you can even call it a tournament since Jen made the tournament last months then ended it when enchantments came at the end of the year. 2018 was a goodish time for twink. 3pc was still an issue but 30 was thriving. Blitz even came back to play for a bit.

Then enchants came into existence in 2018-2019. It was a completely joke and it's responsible for why the 71 tourney has alot of negativity surrounding it, enchantments came during a active tournament and the match concluded with jen winning since she could spend hundreds of USD enchanting for max. During this time period enchantments couldn't be locked so if you role one max slot chances are you're going to lose that on the next role. I've personally spent 300m enchanting in 2019 for 35 and 105. That's how expensive it was to enchant at the time. Now max enchantment slots cannot be obtained by gold for armors and shields i believe. You can only obtain them by rolling with plat. So we saw alot of rigged gameplay for endgame thanks to this. Twink was terrible thanks to enchantments. Mages benefitted the most from it while birds was "brought back" dispite being far worse than they were in 2012-2014.

Just when we thought it couldn't get any worse. Gleam and tinsel was released. These 2 pets have 3k hp, 3k damage, and 3x movement speed.a good pet for PvE, a very bad thing when it could be used in PvP. Booster heaven is what PvP was like for a couple weeks. Didn't last long so there wasn't any major impact. Just when that was gone we recieved Elite items from loot boxes. Since they came from loot boxes i could say around 30 some total players had these elite items. Hosting a match in 27-40 only meant that a troll with elites is going to show up just to boost off of you, and all you could do was boot or leave. StS officially made the elite items a permanent drop for events so it made the PvP more fair, as fair as you can get with them.

Now we are in 2020 where we have mythic amulets and that's it. Keep in mind this is just for twink alone. I could make a whole damn thread on what happened to endgame post 77 cap where the game really went down hill. 77 was the last good cap, if you include 100 cap before it was ruined.

[Vapourised]

^That sure is a lot wow! Something similar happened to another one of my favorite games of all time- Tanki Online. One of the best games up to 2015 but devs decided to kill it by locking content behind a paywall. Became a cash grab. Tanki Online and Pocket legends. The sad reality is that finding quality games is hard these days.

But I still got Brawl stars which is why I'm content. A lot of us from PL have moved there. Would try mobile legends but I've already progressed quite far in brawl stars so eh.

@holdmytalons
Ooops accidently derailed ur thread. Sorry about that.

[MageFFA]

If enchants and elites stayed in endgame where they belong then there wouldn't be any problem. Nobody wanted any of this in twink. Enchantments came during 105 cap so why wouldn't it have been only enabled for 105+? Why would you enable a feature that practically waters down the normal stats of gear into something less enjoyable. 35 could barely handle the fbow era. What made the devs think that it could handle enchantments and Elites that eclipses Fbow? I want to host a L.30 Lost expo tourney. Yet looking at the stats i don't think it's a good idea. 214 damage 185 armor on a level 30. That's level 61 stats.

This has nothing to do with adapting to a new meta either. Halloween gear was a new meta. Plat gear was a new meta. All of the event based items created a new meta. Yet how much of a change did any of those gears inflict on the overall balance of the game with fbow being the exception. Snowball launcher could still lose to a talon in 15. Toy could lose to a crystalline wand in 27. Reaper was always at odds with plat sword. Hell plat sword set never could beat copper at 35 and thoth at 40 so that says alot. Yet these elites come in and nothing stands a chance. Even 71 gear is inferior. Ontop of that how do you adapt to a 1 sided meta that favors healing based classes the most like mages?

[Vapourised]

If memory serves me correctly, I do believe that enchants system was only brought to the two most popular legends: PL and AL.
I wonder. Would that make star legends worth playing then?


Edit: Alright I've typed 'enchantments' in search bar and it only brings up threads from AL and PL. I assume enchants hasn't made it to SL. The next step for me is to find out if low lvl pvp has been ruined in any way but the results so far have been encouraging!

[Cinco]

If memory serves me correctly, I do believe that enchants system was only brought to the two most popular legends: PL and AL.
I wonder. Would that make star legends worth playing then?


Edit: Alright I've typed 'enchantments' in search bar and it only brings up threads from AL and PL. I assume enchants hasn't made it to SL. The next step for me is to find out if low lvl pvp has been ruined in any way but the results so far have been encouraging!

They’re called “Item.Mods” in Star Legends.


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[Waug]

I don't think anyone would be mad if enchants is being taken back although there's no need to do it and there's other ways to bypass it. It's worthless in pve and only usable for pvp and those used it most aren't pvp-ing and had enough lesson that enchantment won't make their pvp experience any better since there won't be any player base in the first place same with gun which had greater impact on pvp making it deserter or was making it deserter, whatever.

[ImRandy]

Enchants = Business = STS makes stuff I like and I spend money on it!

[MageFFA]

People wouldn't have an issue with enchantments being in PvP if the slots didn't include Armor, HP, and Damage modifiers. Instead lesser stats such as Str, Dex, Int, H/s, and M/s. That would of been far better than what we have now.

[Vapourised]

I don't think anyone would be mad if enchants is being taken back although there's no need to do it and there's other ways to bypass it. It's worthless in pve and only usable for pvp and those used it most aren't pvp-ing and had enough lesson that enchantment won't make their pvp experience any better since there won't be any player base in the first place same with gun which had greater impact on pvp making it deserter or was making it deserter, whatever.

Exactly. The people who used the enchants system have been cheated by it. Spend all their gold to max gear only for the pvp zones to become empty. And they became empty for that exact reason.

But meh to it all. There's literally 5000 better games out there rn. Get hunting peeps.

[Vapourised]

Enchants = Business = STS makes stuff I like and I spend money on it!

Blizzard is also a business. I don't see world of warcraft introducing game killing features but STS likes to troll its playerbase it seems. Ur telling me its impossible to have both good revenue and a largely satisfied playerbase? Sacrificing one for another is a dumb concept but Blizzard has avoided this. It's common sense that happy players mean more money but this seems to have slipped through the minds of the devs. If you don't believe me, look at PL during 2010-2012. STS was raking in revenue I believe. They could have kept what was already perfect but they didn't. WoW is still going strong despite being older than PL isnt that funny? The WoW dev team is really involved with the community and that's why WoW killers failed. STS could have rivalled WoW but they decided to turn their diamond into mud.

Oh well. It's STS's loss. We as players can just move on when a game becomes trash. The devs are more bound to it as it's their source of income. A dying game hurts them more despite any façade they might put up.

[Cinco]

Blizzard is also a business. I don't see world of warcraft introducing game killing features but STS likes to troll its playerbase it seems. Ur telling me its impossible to have both good revenue and a largely satisfied playerbase? Sacrificing one for another is a dumb concept but Blizzard has avoided this. It's common sense that happy players mean more money but this seems to have slipped through the minds of the devs. If you don't believe me, look at PL during 2010-2012. STS was raking in revenue I believe. They could have kept what was already perfect but they didn't. WoW is still going strong despite being older than PL isnt that funny? The WoW dev team is really involved with the community and that's why WoW killers failed. STS could have rivalled WoW but they decided to turn their diamond into mud.

Oh well. It's STS's loss. We as players can just move on when a game becomes trash. The devs are more bound to it as it's their source of income. A dying game hurts them more despite any façade they might put up.

Subscriptions.


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[Vapourised]

Subscriptions.


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I’m still under the impression that STS had a really effective and successful monetisation model in the early years 2010-2014. A one which brought as much revenue as a subscription model. I could be entirely and utterly wrong though.

Also supercell games aren’t subscription based but their games pull in a lot of cash. And the latest one is extremely free to play friendly despite having a system where you can buy a pass.

I’m not trying to put down STS by giving this example. All I want to show is that making crazy revenue and lots and lots of satisfied players are NOT mutually exclusive. This is what I think pocket legends did really well at one point and I just don’t understand why there was a decision to move away from that.

Please enlighten us. But i do appreciate this may constitute as confidential information.

[holdmytalons]

People wouldn't have an issue with enchantments being in PvP if the slots didn't include Armor, HP, and Damage modifiers. Instead lesser stats such as Str, Dex, Int, H/s, and M/s. That would of been far better than what we have now.Yea i change my mind remove health armor and damage enchants simple fix

[Cinco]

I’m still under the impression that STS had a really effective and successful monetisation model in the early years 2010-2014. A one which brought as much revenue as a subscription model. I could be entirely and utterly wrong though.

Also supercell games aren’t subscription based but their games pull in a lot of cash. And the latest one is extremely free to play friendly despite having a system where you can buy a pass.

I’m not trying to put down STS by giving this example. All I want to show is that making crazy revenue and lots and lots of satisfied players are NOT mutually exclusive. This is what I think pocket legends did really well at one point and I just don’t understand why there was a decision to move away from that.

Please enlighten us. But i do appreciate this may constitute as confidential information.

Supercell’s brilliant PvP games are fairly distinct from any MMORPG anywhere in the marketplace :-)

How would you feel about a subscription or a season pass system for “PL 2”

[3pc]

Supercell’s brilliant PvP games are fairly distinct from any MMORPG anywhere in the marketplace :-)

How would you feel about a subscription or a season pass system for “PL 2”

If its actually a reasonable price i think many would go for it..

[holdmytalons]

If its actually a reasonable price i think many would go for it..Whos gonna pay a subscription to play pl lol

[MageFFA]

Supercell’s brilliant PvP games are fairly distinct from any MMORPG anywhere in the marketplace :-)

How would you feel about a subscription or a season pass system for “PL 2”

If "PL 2" is classic PL, 2010-2011, then bring it on.

[holdmytalons]

If "PL 2" is classic PL, 2010-2011, then bring it on.Old school pl would be nice

[Waug]

Supercell’s brilliant PvP games are fairly distinct from any MMORPG anywhere in the marketplace :-)

How would you feel about a subscription or a season pass system for “PL 2”

No single Mobile game under daylight is subscription based whereas every free to play competitive game is going into the path of season pass system.

About MMORPG or PL2 I think there should be some new trends it's been hard now a days to create any hype with traditional MMO, take Genshin impact which took gaming by storm not just mobile, which isn't mmo although feels like mmo but that provide huge chance for game developers who would make a mmo with the goodness of GI and blend that into mmo, I'd love that, imagine a pvp system with genshin like character switch and blend of their skills and essence leads to versatility and scope of various builds discovers by players, even if not still, some survival and crafting aspect bit like ARK survival or some intuitive battle royale blend in mmo can still be pretty attractive for mobile gaming.

[Cinco]

No single Mobile game under daylight is subscription based whereas every free to play competitive game is going into the path of season pass system.

About MMORPG or PL2 I think there should be some new trends it's been hard now a days to create any hype with traditional MMO, take Genshin impact which took gaming by storm not just mobile, which isn't mmo although feels like mmo but that provide huge chance for game developers who would make a mmo with the goodness of GI and blend that into mmo, I'd love that, imagine a pvp system with genshin like character switch and blend of their skills and essence leads to versatility and scope of various builds discovers by players, even if not still, some survival and crafting aspect bit like ARK survival or some intuitive battle royale blend in mmo can still be pretty attractive for mobile gaming.

If PL were a competitive game it would certainly be wise to employ a season pass, but it’s never been anything like that. Since the game is a PvE game the prevailing wisdom is to stay F2P but with micro trans (methods that have evolved over the last ten years; not the stuff we used back in the days when we were among the very first ‘free’ titles). In fact I’m starting to favor a hybrid approach - what I call an “Event Pass” system that takes the things that work for Fortnite and applies them to our style of MMO. Purpose of this is to make a profitable business that still offers a consistent platform for committed non-payers.


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[Waug]

What I'm talking, is the season pass from fornite and which was adopted by massive amount of games after that and which is not limited to EXACT competitive games but similar games and my term of competitive game is little bit different, in a MMO you compete with other players even in pve to look better to get new gear faster and so on. Again it's just an Extension of the monetization system, micro transactions isn't prohibited in fact i know games having Season pass + micro transactions and obviously which is hugely accepted by mobile community, pc community is different of course they hate micro transactions so subscription model for an interesting gaming title is easily a good thing for pc but not for mobile at least not yet.

So basically I didn't oppose the "hybrid system"

[Cinco]

What I'm talking, is the season pass from fornite and which was adopted by massive amount of games after that and which is not limited to EXACT competitive games but similar games and my term of competitive game is little bit different, in a MMO you compete with other players even in pve as well again it's just an Extension of the monetization system, micro transactions isn't prohibited in fact i know games having Season pass + micro transactions and obviously which is hugely accepted by mobile community, pc community is different of course they hate micro transactions so subscription model for an interesting gaming title is easily a good thing for pc but not for mobile at least not yet.

So basically I didn't oppose the "hybrid system"

I realize this. We're not in disagreement. Here's a bit more of what I'm thinking: when 'seasons' exist you have the basis for a 'season pass' monetization structure. Competitive games' primary structure comes from player rankings over time, which makes 'seasons' relatively easy to apply. For cooperative games, on the other hand, I assert that the structure needs to be applied via 'seasonal' content that Designers create. For example, having a 90-day 'Event Season' that encompasses New Year's, Valentine's Day, and Spring Break PVE events and a variety of PVP leaderboards that conclude and offer exclusive rewards at the end of each period.

For PL2 I'm envisioning a large swath of free content that is always available and a regular cadence of event content to drive 'PVE' monetization via micro-transactions. The fundamental PVP needs to be an 'economic safe space,' where game mechanics and player skill are paramount, and where a 'seasonal' Ranked leaderboard system offers unique vanity rewards (titles, banners, name colors, badges). No-fault PVP and 'P2W' PVP could also exist here but they shouldn't offer any sort of reward - though it seems like 'enchantment' based PVP is the correct space for wagering ;-)

[Vapourised]

You'll want to keep loot boxes too for PL2. It's a popular feature in most games nowadays and it makes sense to have one. There's always going to be this one guy who buys like 20000 of them for a you tube video 'unboxing challenge'. Or just want that item badly. Will make a good amount of money too.
Exclusive rare non-tradeable vanities in those boxes. Could always put them in the end of the paid season pass as well. I know a lot of people who would buy the first season pass to get their hands on exclusive discontinued vanities.
But what I would watch out for is locking pvp advantages behind the boxes/pass. What I mean by this is there should be no pvp item that free to play players cannot get unless said pvp item offers no advantage over the rest.

Will type more later when I got time.

[Waug]

Season pass can be continuous and separate and free from holiday events and scope is enormous for co-op games as well, People do compete all the time that's the nature and that's enjoyable, season rank rewards & leaderboard for kills in pve, for collecting something, for time duration dungeons are completed etc etc as that can be as engaging as getting ranked in competitive games.

Well PL 2 is confirmed, happy and exciting hopefully it turns out to be good. One thing I'll say here about pvp, it's better to refrain from making pvp p2w in any circumstances and area, direct p2w pvp never works only some successful co-op pvp is there by that I mean, where a guild is fighting with others but lets take one individual and he would get rekt by opponent whale, yeah those games are there but much different, back to topic it's always been hated and you can't make em player understand that it's for certain area and non p2w pvp exist in other area, they will still hate it and post negative feedback in the stores as well and will cause bad reputation for the game. Successful and mass pvp zonre is in free to win zones you know it well sir.

[Vapourised]

Waug is correct. Fortnite doesnt give u any advantages over others for spending money except for cosmetics.

But also pvp can still bring in money. Why? Because people farm dungeons to get the gear. Introducing luck elixirs for platinum as well as platinum crafting of sets is the way to go. Just like how pokcet legends did it from sewers cap to blacksmoke mountains.

[Cinco]

Indeed. Trade is among Pocket Legends' most critical features.

With that in mind, it's important (for a Game Designer of an MMO) to consider that while PVP is symmetrical balance, PVE is asymmetrical. This means that monsters need to be fortified to the extent that parties of well-geared adventurers must employ strategy to win. Numerically speaking, this makes looted 'PVE' gear incompatible with PVP as higher level content is introduced - since that higher level content must take player parties into account. On this subject I have some new ideas that I'm very excited about... but they've never been tried... so we'll see if they turn out to be a boom or a bust ;-)

[holdmytalons]

You'll want to keep loot boxes too for PL2. It's a popular feature in most games nowadays and it makes sense to have one. There's always going to be this one guy who buys like 20000 of them for a you tube video 'unboxing challenge'. Or just want that item badly. Will make a good amount of money too.
Exclusive rare non-tradeable vanities in those boxes. Could always put them in the end of the paid season pass as well. I know a lot of people who would buy the first season pass to get their hands on exclusive discontinued vanities.
But what I would watch out for is locking pvp advantages behind the boxes/pass. What I mean by this is there should be no pvp item that free to play players cannot get unless said pvp item offers no advantage over the rest.

Will type more later when I got time.No take loot boxes and throw em in the trash

[Vapourised]

One thing I will say for PL2.

I think it would be a good idea if the graphics are not overdone. AL graphics seems perfectly fine. No need to make it better than that and increase development costs imo.

Why do I say this?

Most of the biggest hyped MMOs in history got ruined this way. They thought their plays wanted super duper fancy graphics so invested too much resources into it.
This had 2 consequences:

1) Good state of the art graphics are expensive. The heavy costs of development now need to be repaid by players needing to spend huge amounts. Often the developers had no choice but to introduce massive pay to win/play features and force loot boxes in ur face (more often than not these have really low chance of desirable items). Then of course players quit.

People want good solid gameplay even if that means not top notch graphics. We can settle for 'decent'.

2) Not much resources left to polish up other aspects of the game like story, gameplay etc.

Just thought I would quickly add this. This is just what I've seen. Take it with a grain of salt perhaps.

[MageFFA]

I realize this. We're not in disagreement. Here's a bit more of what I'm thinking: when 'seasons' exist you have the basis for a 'season pass' monetization structure. Competitive games' primary structure comes from player rankings over time, which makes 'seasons' relatively easy to apply. For cooperative games, on the other hand, I assert that the structure needs to be applied via 'seasonal' content that Designers create. For example, having a 90-day 'Event Season' that encompasses New Year's, Valentine's Day, and Spring Break PVE events and a variety of PVP leaderboards that conclude and offer exclusive rewards at the end of each period.

For PL2 I'm envisioning a large swath of free content that is always available and a regular cadence of event content to drive 'PVE' monetization via micro-transactions. The fundamental PVP needs to be an 'economic safe space,' where game mechanics and player skill are paramount, and where a 'seasonal' Ranked leaderboard system offers unique vanity rewards (titles, banners, name colors, badges). No-fault PVP and 'P2W' PVP could also exist here but they shouldn't offer any sort of reward - though it seems like 'enchantment' based PVP is the correct space for wagering ;-)

Issue with enchantment based PvP is the complete bias nature of it. Of all the current enchantments obtainable only 4 is actually viable. Of the 4 only 3 can be used in PvP. Those 3 not only change every single aspect of PvP by ruining the stats and balances that existed prior but it also only favors certain classes while leaving others out.

I'm not saying you should rid damage, health, and armor modifications from enchants, but they should be rid of in PvP lobbies. In replacement we could instead introduce things such as regeneration enchantments or passive effects. A enchantment that has a slight chance to deal burn effect for example. Nothing OP but actually desirable.

[Cinco]

One thing I will say for PL2.

I think it would be a good idea if the graphics are not overdone. AL graphics seems perfectly fine. No need to make it better than that and increase development costs imo.

Why do I say this?

Most of the biggest hyped MMOs in history got ruined this way. They thought their plays wanted super duper fancy graphics so invested too much resources into it.
This had 2 consequences:

1) Good state of the art graphics are expensive. The heavy costs of development now need to be repaid by players needing to spend huge amounts. Often the developers had no choice but to introduce massive pay to win/play features and force loot boxes in ur face (more often than not these have really low chance of desirable items). Then of course players quit.

People want good solid gameplay even if that means not top notch graphics. We can settle for 'decent'.

2) Not much resources left to polish up other aspects of the game like story, gameplay etc.

Just thought I would quickly add this. This is just what I've seen. Take it with a grain of salt perhaps.

I concur. Please take this in the humorous spirit it is intended: the graphics need to be basic enough that 're-coloring' is a thing :-)

[Valtarya]

This new game needs touch-targeting like PL. The system in AL is simply not as good for a multitude of reasons.

[ImRandy]

Indeed. Trade is among Pocket Legends' most critical features.

With that in mind, it's important (for a Game Designer of an MMO) to consider that while PVP is symmetrical balance, PVE is asymmetrical. This means that monsters need to be fortified to the extent that parties of well-geared adventurers must employ strategy to win. Numerically speaking, this makes looted 'PVE' gear incompatible with PVP as higher level content is introduced - since that higher level content must take player parties into account. On this subject I have some new ideas that I'm very excited about... but they've never been tried... so we'll see if they turn out to be a boom or a bust ;-)

So just split the economy ... two markets?

[Hjable]

I would rather have subscription to be honest but I already have subscription in other games. But I’ll like pocket legend 2 to be open world and we can gank people doing quests and have a lot of more class like from other sts games. And tons of great items being added. And option to control what’s allowed in private pvp may hire.

I want to see at least one steath class or a item that lets us steath. Also would love to see a necromancy class that summon dead and spirt to fight more then one minion unless it’s really strong. Some minion slow opponents some do mass damage.

Also hunters need a pet wolf or something.

Wanna be able to have skills we can level up like mining etc. skills that we can use to make powerful stuff like battle mounts and top of the line gear.

I want us to have a potion maker skills but better. Instead of exlir that kill ever thing same we can farm mats and make weapon coating that poison or add silver that kills vampires faster. No 2x damage vs all monsters. Each monster got there own weakness like tree monster I use fire gasoline potions and make fire arrows or sword. That would be cool could even make our armor have same weakness :)

Keep the targeting system don’t care much for game that don’t let u target cause it limit the kinda battles we can have. I want ever class to have a usefulness in pve (high magic damage/or aoe damage, I single target physical damage/aoe , tanks/off tank some time more then one threat, differnt kinda healers-got great group healers or single target healers /team buff and want to have the class preotect from damage shield for heavy aoe raid , also dot healers who special is healing over time by doing damage or like rhino.

Ton of items that have effects for pve and doesn’t get out dated on ever new level cap. So we can customize our hero even more.
Actually just end out dated gear just make new stuff that have procs better for zone.

Mounts- we need them


But I do not like class to be nerf instead just gear made to counter what make them op. It sucks when you make a op class and by the time u cap it sucks!!!!

Pocket legend to subscription!!!! Let’s go
But I’ll like to still see non member able to play but they just don’t get access to all the content and or not able to equip everthing. Kinda like they can only progress so far

Also introduce skill tree so or char can be good at something like say single target tanking /muti target tanking or damage

No fix camera or paying to reroll skills just put a vendor far out the way that people have to travel to. And to go to a dungon we have to actually have to travel to it. But can be quick summon to event zones.

And all monsters have a chance of dropping a unique super rare powerful item.

And add some kinda element damage so some gear good vs certain monsters.

Can we just go big and delete the whole leveling theme. Instead we farm items or quest for rare powerful items and rather we take the questing path or killing mobs we can always get good stuff for raids.

Also I think there should be a special mode for skillers. Those that wanna max all skills they got there on mode and some super end game perks once they cap. So they like have to max there skills with out being able to buy from the store but once they cap all there skill they get a powerful bonus to there stats. These are pve mode only char or at least there perks don’t work in pvp.Any time they can turn there account back to normally but not normal to elite skilled. They also get differnt gear and from quests. And a achievement when they max. Once they max they can turn there account to normal but lose the damage perks but retain the title and achievement but gain the ability to trade again.

Graphic isn’t important to me as long as it doesn’t look like Atari game. Nintendo or higher graphic is fine. Only thing I want is Ton of good items to chase down in dungon ,raids, or just regular monsters. Also I want some kinda armory that list all items there effects and were they drop.

And can we get a bounty hunter that send you on quest to kill differnt monsters that give more experience or increase the drop chance of that items your looking for. And can ever monster have boss version

Oh and can u also add the option for plat player to buy tradable membership passes we can sell in c.s. So if I’m running short on gold we can sell them or maybe we wanna gift a friend a membership
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[holdmytalons]

I would rather have subscription to be honest but I already have subscription in other games. But I’ll like pocket legend 2 to be open world and we can gank people doing quests and have a lot of more class like from other sts games. And tons of great items being added. And option to control what’s allowed in private pvp may hire.

I want to see at least one steath class or a item that lets us steath. Also would love to see a necromancy class that summon dead and spirt to fight more then one minion unless it’s really strong. Some minion slow opponents some do mass damage.

Also hunters need a pet wolf or something.

Wanna be able to have skills we can level up like mining etc. skills that we can use to make powerful stuff like battle mounts and top of the line gear.

I want us to have a potion maker skills

Keep the targeting system don’t care much for game that don’t let u target cause it limit the kinda battles we can have. I want ever class to have a usefulness in pve (high magic damage/or aoe damage, I single target physical damage/aoe , tanks/off tank some time more then one threat, differnt kinda healers-got great group healers or single target healers /team buff and want to have the class preotect from damage shield for heavy aoe raid , also dot healers who special is healing over time by doing damage or like rhino.

Ton of items that have effects for pve and doesn’t get out dated on ever new level cap. So we can customize our hero even more.
Actually just end out dated gear just make new stuff that have procs better for zone.

Mounts- we need them


But I do not like class to be nerf instead just gear made to counter what make them op. It sucks when you make a op class and by the time u cap it sucks!!!!

Pocket legend to subscription!!!! Let’s go
But I’ll like to still see non member able to play but they just don’t get access to all the content and or not able to equip everthing. Kinda like they can only progress so far

Also introduce skill tree so or char can be good at something like say single target tanking /muti target tanking or damage


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI just wanna see em actually fix their games [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787] y would i pay a subscription when they cant even fix their game just throw out events instead of taking the time to actually do the work

[Cqrd]

The only non enchantment pvp in pl honors is still ruined where the majority of pvp players are trying to play with 100 honors and are getting grieved by players coming in with 105 elite sets to ruin the fun.

I don’t think anyone using elite set would ever want
to 2v2 or 3v3 with it and are just using it for the sole purpose of ruining honor games for people using
100 sets.

Yes it’s all honors, but why can’t each set have it’s own arena so people can’t exploit 105 elite sets vs 100 sets and can’t exploit the lower sets 15/30 to get more str/dex/int since these slower sets almost have identical stats to 100.

[holdmytalons]

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Espacetimestudios%2Ec om%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D481438&share_tid=481438&share_fid=24169&share_type=t&link_source=app

[Vapourised]

I would rather have subscription to be honest but I already have subscription in other games. But I’ll like pocket legend 2 to be open world and we can gank people doing quests and have a lot of more class like from other sts games. And tons of great items being added. And option to control what’s allowed in private pvp may hire.

I want to see at least one steath class or a item that lets us steath. Also would love to see a necromancy class that summon dead and spirt to fight more then one minion unless it’s really strong. Some minion slow opponents some do mass damage.

Also hunters need a pet wolf or something.

Wanna be able to have skills we can level up like mining etc. skills that we can use to make powerful stuff like battle mounts and top of the line gear.

I want us to have a potion maker skills but better. Instead of exlir that kill ever thing same we can farm mats and make weapon coating that poison or add silver that kills vampires faster. No 2x damage vs all monsters. Each monster got there own weakness like tree monster I use fire gasoline potions and make fire arrows or sword. That would be cool could even make our armor have same weakness :)

Keep the targeting system don’t care much for game that don’t let u target cause it limit the kinda battles we can have. I want ever class to have a usefulness in pve (high magic damage/or aoe damage, I single target physical damage/aoe , tanks/off tank some time more then one threat, differnt kinda healers-got great group healers or single target healers /team buff and want to have the class preotect from damage shield for heavy aoe raid , also dot healers who special is healing over time by doing damage or like rhino.

Ton of items that have effects for pve and doesn’t get out dated on ever new level cap. So we can customize our hero even more.
Actually just end out dated gear just make new stuff that have procs better for zone.

Mounts- we need them


But I do not like class to be nerf instead just gear made to counter what make them op. It sucks when you make a op class and by the time u cap it sucks!!!!

Pocket legend to subscription!!!! Let’s go
But I’ll like to still see non member able to play but they just don’t get access to all the content and or not able to equip everthing. Kinda like they can only progress so far

Also introduce skill tree so or char can be good at something like say single target tanking /muti target tanking or damage

No fix camera or paying to reroll skills just put a vendor far out the way that people have to travel to. And to go to a dungon we have to actually have to travel to it. But can be quick summon to event zones.

And all monsters have a chance of dropping a unique super rare powerful item.

And add some kinda element damage so some gear good vs certain monsters.

Can we just go big and delete the whole leveling theme. Instead we farm items or quest for rare powerful items and rather we take the questing path or killing mobs we can always get good stuff for raids.

Also I think there should be a special mode for skillers. Those that wanna max all skills they got there on mode and some super end game perks once they cap. So they like have to max there skills with out being able to buy from the store but once they cap all there skill they get a powerful bonus to there stats. These are pve mode only char or at least there perks don’t work in pvp.Any time they can turn there account back to normally but not normal to elite skilled. They also get differnt gear and from quests. And a achievement when they max. Once they max they can turn there account to normal but lose the damage perks but retain the title and achievement but gain the ability to trade again.

Graphic isn’t important to me as long as it doesn’t look like Atari game. Nintendo or higher graphic is fine. Only thing I want is Ton of good items to chase down in dungon ,raids, or just regular monsters. Also I want some kinda armory that list all items there effects and were they drop.

And can we get a bounty hunter that send you on quest to kill differnt monsters that give more experience or increase the drop chance of that items your looking for. And can ever monster have boss version

Oh and can u also add the option for plat player to buy tradable membership passes we can sell in c.s. So if I’m running short on gold we can sell them or maybe we wanna gift a friend a membership
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You've literally just described Order and Chaos. That game was a big failure. As were its clones.
STS should not make a WoW clone because these tend to fail hard.

So with all due respect, I'm going to have to strongly disagree.

STS should stick to their unique formula which no other mobile game has on the market.

If anything, it's going to be a hybrid between AL and PL. I'm personally hoping for some AL graphics but with PL mechanics such as 12 skills, combo attacks, unique procs etc.

@Cinco Oh and can we have a really good storyline too?? Kinda felt like PL's storyline wasn't so clear and a lot of players were to focused on grinding than taking in the world around them.
'Cutscenes' like AL would be very cool. More of those please.

[Vapourised]

I just wanna see em actually fix their games [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787] y would i pay a subscription when they cant even fix their game just throw out events instead of taking the time to actually do the work

It's highly unlikely Cinco would make the new game subscription based since practically no mobile games are. His best bet is a half-season pass sort of system like he suggested.
And if the new game addresses all the flaws of PL, I'm not going to complain. The new game is essentially a fix because it should be great fun unlike PL atm.

The only problem is we have to start over with zero progress and leave our stuff in PL behind. But I've already essentially done that by moving to other games. If the new game is a big hit, it shouldn't be a problem. Would rather have fun in a new game then stand in that dumb ship town all day and count my meaningless gold(cos we all know how active pvp is right?). Really is turning into a game where the only thing you can do is merch. And it's so freaking boring! (my opinion).

[MageFFA]

Welp Level 30 halloween bling isn't coming back again so there goes any plan for a level 30 tourney.

[Hjable]

I also wanna have actually clan battles in the new games and a useful for guild hall. And when guild hall get updated it fortifies your castle and there is siege vehicles and catapults

And guilds can Challenge other guilds and set there own rules like time limit
And a ton of equip slots for items and there all visible so like if we have a cool chain belt people can see it and the ear rings and tattoos and stuff.
And we can also hide all slots that we don’t want to have visible .
So a lot of char customization
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Vapourised]

I miss this thread :(.

Some good teasers about PL2.

I actually wouldn’t mind it being subscription based tbh. Osrs is subscription.

I don’t play osrs cos I don’t work yet but it’s undeniable that the subscription model has worked for them.

My personal preference is that PL2 is buy to play like minecraft but charging a good sum of money like 24 dollars.

I should like it be also be open world but appreciate it’s a lot of challenge. All in all, I’m just hoping for a solid game. Maybe something I can play for 30 mins and feel relaxed and worth my time

[Waug]

Yes this is a thread worthy to revive. I Saw I wrote lots here, bit shy to read it back anyway.

The competition and scale is extreme, yet there's a huge scope for something different in taste and / or fun to play for a new game.
I don't think subscription model would work in any way rather it would work the way 99.9999999% MOBILE Games are working, that's micro transaction.

I also hope, cinco share some jucy info about PL2. PL community has grown up they're not kid anymore so cinco might share something without the fear of "desperate kids seeking something"

[Vapourised]

Title of the thread is quite a shame (people will assume it’s just a rant thread). But the topic moved past that quickly and become a fruitful discussion. Discord doesn’t really promote a discussion since as soon as one person says something different, the topic gets derailed.

Want to hopefully see people back here and hear more from Cinco and how he’s progressed PL2 in that year gap.

I think PL2 will be a massive hit without a doubt. It’s PL2 after all. Probs gonna have the insane level of depth the current PL combat system has. Everything good about PL and classic PL with AL’s graphics and pets system and release PL’s activity. I see it being advertised heavily (Cincos made enough money from us for like 10 years so no excuse for this to not happen). I see it gob smacking gamers and rising as a top rated game.

We PL players have suffered for too long. We need PL2