Paladin in Arena of Honor

[Absolize]

I want to start off by saying this, the Paladin class can not compete to any class in Honor PvP, no matter what level it is. After tons of experimenting (a.k.a tons of deaths) I have a few suggestions for a Paladin buff that could make the class have a fighting chance versus the insane amount of damage the other classes do.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/c772fbbceb52d9366cddd848cb271f71.jpg

1.) Let’s talk about Critical Hit:

The Paladin’s critical hit percentage is only at a very low 36 fully buffed using the critical force buff “Vital Force”.

- Let us compare this number to other classes:

~ Warrior: 54 Critical Hit fully buffed (includes
+100 damage from the “Rage” buff)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/c1912a43ef1a32c0e655fdb37d3629a9.jpg

~ Archer: 61 Critical Hit fully buffed

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/d2c9fd44fe2c27430076058a7da6573e.jpg

~ Ranger: 60 Critical Hit fully buffed

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/d10187eb974e0b03a164c8db99ecb44e.jpg

~ Enchantress: 52 Critical Hit fully buffed

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/165ac29f5ff10f2b96c38911168d8741.jpg

Now we can see from this simple comparison, the Paladin class 100% needs a critical hit buff to have any chance to compete.

2.) The “Holy Tempest” Skill

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/32cc80fa3b7ebbc7e4e63975ff504329.jpg

Holy Tempest does -30% hit for 3 seconds if landed, this is an extremely underpowered debuff, and this is the Paladin’s ONLY hit debuff. I think Holy Tempest should do -70% hit for 5 seconds with a 100% hit debuff if it actually lands, so it actually does it’s job. Most classes fully buffed will still have over 100% hit if Holy Tempest does land, which makes it a useless hit debuff.

Another thing, Holy Tempest only has a 60% chance to debuff, meaning even if it lands it might not debuff the enemies hit, however, any other class with a hit debuff if it lands its 100% of the time a hit debuff, Holy Tempest is not. This needs a rework.

- Let’s compare this hit debuff to other classes hit debuffs:

~ Archer: “Blinding Shot” does -70% hit for 5 seconds

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/047fed3c4bc3e93e9a1b4613a92b6765.jpg

~ Warrior: “Hell Scream” decreases damage by 70 and also does -70% hit

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/d3ed8339d33978048b76657c71084fc0.jpg

~ Enchantress: “Weakness” decreases damage by 70 and also does -70% hit

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/2227ba10efb91dcc61e06dac228208d1.jpg

I feel like if the Critical Hit & the Holy Tempest hit debuff was buffed on the Paladin, it would be able to compete with the other classes. As of right now, the Paladin has zero chance versus any class in 1v1’s or teams in the Arena of Honor. These issues have been going on for quite some time now, and even players who do not play Paladin agree with me that it is WAY to weak for Honor PvP.

Thank you for reading!

[XghostzX]

I want to start off by saying this, the Paladin class can not compete to any class in Honor PvP, no matter what level it is. After tons of experimenting (a.k.a tons of deaths) I have a few suggestions for a Paladin buff that could make the class have a fighting chance versus the insane amount of damage the other classes do.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/c772fbbceb52d9366cddd848cb271f71.jpg

1.) Let’s talk about Critical Hit:

The Paladin’s critical hit percentage is only at a very low 36 fully buffed using the critical force buff “Vital Force”.

- Let us compare this number to other classes:

~ Warrior: 54 Critical Hit fully buffed (includes
+100 damage from the “Rage” buff)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/c1912a43ef1a32c0e655fdb37d3629a9.jpg

~ Archer: 61 Critical Hit fully buffed

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/d2c9fd44fe2c27430076058a7da6573e.jpg

~ Ranger: 60 Critical Hit fully buffed

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/d10187eb974e0b03a164c8db99ecb44e.jpg

~ Enchantress: 52 Critical Hit fully buffed

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/165ac29f5ff10f2b96c38911168d8741.jpg

Now we can see from this simple comparison, the Paladin class 100% needs a critical hit buff to have any chance to compete.

2.) The “Holy Tempest” Skill

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/32cc80fa3b7ebbc7e4e63975ff504329.jpg

Holy Tempest does -30% hit for 3 seconds if landed, this is an extremely underpowered debuff, and this is the Paladin’s ONLY hit debuff. I think Holy Tempest should do -70% hit for 5 seconds with a 100% hit debuff if it actually lands, so it actually does it’s job. Most classes fully buffed will still have over 100% hit if Holy Tempest does land, which makes it a useless hit debuff.

Another thing, Holy Tempest only has a 60% chance to debuff, meaning even if it lands it might not debuff the enemies hit, however, any other class with a hit debuff if it lands its 100% of the time a hit debuff, Holy Tempest is not. This needs a rework.

- Let’s compare this hit debuff to other classes hit debuffs:

~ Archer: “Blinding Shot” does -70% hit for 5 seconds

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/047fed3c4bc3e93e9a1b4613a92b6765.jpg

~ Warrior: “Hell Scream” decreases damage by 70 and also does -70% hit

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/d3ed8339d33978048b76657c71084fc0.jpg

~ Enchantress: “Weakness” decreases damage by 70 and also does -70% hit

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/2227ba10efb91dcc61e06dac228208d1.jpg

I feel like if the Critical Hit & the Holy Tempest hit debuff was buffed on the Paladin, it would be able to compete with the other classes. As of right now, the Paladin has zero chance versus any class in 1v1’s or teams in the Arena of Honor. These issues have been going on for quite some time now, and even players who do not play Paladin agree with me that it is WAY to weak for Honor PvP.

Thank you for reading!

For someone who has mained Rhino his entire PL career, Hook makes many valid suggestions that should be considered. Will drop a thanks when I'm on a computer!

[MageFFA]

I always felt that for rhinos to be a viable class in PvP, twink and endgame, they would need to be defensively superior than their opponents while having their offensive capabilities be used for team fights. I was fooling around with my 71 rhino, historically rhinos were one of the worst classes there, and i tried different forms of builds vs the updated IB bear. Here is what i got.

Bears without a doubt is the best class in 71 ever since Iron Blood was buffed. They curb stomp mages and birds alike, rarely do they lose health. With rhino if i tried to invest into my offensive build i would end up just the same as every other class, but if i went into a defensive build i start to win majority of my fights against the bear. This is achieved by invest max points into all armor buffs, Guardian and Stone, 9 into restore, 9 into H/s Debuffs, Rhino Might and Summon, 9 into Vital Force for debuffs, and the trump card Brutal Force. Brutal Force will give me a edge against the bear by giving me sheer H/s and Dodge. While in a fight the bear barely has the ability to keep up once i start using all my skills in conjunction. The fight plays out with me constantly debuffing his H/s and Hit while I'm slowly chipping damage on his health.

Since rhino is a paladin class it focuses mostly on team support. This here is the summary of what a Paladin does,"Most of these powers relate to providing benefits to those around the Paladin. These include healing and curing of disease, morale in combat and turning of undead." As you can see not all of the abilities pallies can do translate to PL but the important onces are Healing and curing of diseases, Curing of diseases mean removing negative debuffs for your party, and Morale in combat, providing any forms of buffs whether damage and armor. With that being noted let's talk about how we can redo the class.

These following skills do not need to be changed because they are good where they are now. Charge, Restore, Meditation, Guardian, Holy Tempest, and Revive. Those skills are balanced perfectly in my opinion. That leaves Rhino Might, Redemption, Brute Force, Summon, Vital Force, and stone. Let's work from there.

Rhino might is a CC that debuffs the enemies H/s. As you level it up it has a chance to stun. I would personally prefer if the Debuff on H/s was increased to be slightly higher. At level 6 it only debuffs -8 H/s and at level 10 it only debuffs -22. A better number would be L.6=-12 and level 10=-30.

Redemption could be done better. People keep complaining that it des x2 Damage, and while i disagree i am up for change. Remove the damage multiplier and replace it with a stun. The stun should be only activated on combo. Redemption should also have a chance to debuff armor. 30 should be the max that can be debuffed at level 10. Cinco can do the rest from there.

Brute Force is a skill i hated until recently. It offers up such interesting gameplay and opportunities towards new forms of tank builds. I would increase the total amount of H/s that is given at every level for the skill. Along with buffing the total H/s i would also increase how much total armor is given to my teammates. 25 should be set to max. Rhinos should NOT benefit from party buff on Brute Force.

Summon is a great skill but i think the devs missed a shot with it. Increasing the total H/s reduction would be excellent but also introducing a Mana debuff would be neat also. Mages are easily the worst matchup that a rhino can have. Even if you manage to crack their HP you'd be left with having to now deal with their MP thanks to Mana Shield. If Summon could debuff M/s it would end the cycle of rhinos being pushed over by mages thanks to their M/s and bears thanks to their H/s.

Vital Force is the best party buff in game. It just so happens to be placed on a class that barely can do much with it. Incrasing the total damage the buff gives while only leaving a fraction of it as a individual buff would be excellent and weed off all complaints. Hit and Crit stats don't meed to be chanced.

Stone just needs more armor. Even when paired with guardian it's still not a significant thing buff compared to other classes. Buffing the total armor given is the best option. Another option would be giving Stone a HP instead of increasing armor. Consider the fact that rhinos possess the lowest total HP stats of ALL classes it would be logical to decrease the gap between rhinos and bears. The more the health a class has the more demanding the heals would be. H/s carries restore after all. This would be a double edged sword if done correctly.

This is my personal opinion on whats best for rhino.

[Cqrd]

Doesn’t seem like it’s much but it makes sense for this buff to happen seeing how weak rhino is, where as fox can compete still along side the other classes due to having decent hit debuffs and around the same crit buff.

Also would be nice to see cinco actually show love to the only good pvp in the game and separate 100 honors from elite honors 105. Seems like nowadays cinco will only respond to threads bashing enchants and asking for them to be removed and ignoring actual suggestions.

[Congeniality]

I agree that this buff is long overdue, and I think the suggestions put forward by Hook are more than appropriate. The crit issue is certainly something that should be looked at, and the hit debuff on Holy Tempest has to be the saddest thing as it stands atm.

I recently 1v1'ed Hook to see how an experienced Rhino can fair vs. Fox. Although these were 1v1, I think they are still indicative of where Rhino can be buffed. The primary reason I say this is because the hit debuff couldn't even get me below 100% hit chance.... when it did hit. I can't stress enough how much an increase to the amount of hit debuffed on Holy Tempest would help Rhino, while not taking the chance of making it a crazy powerhouse.

Given that Holy Tempest is AOE, I would urge the consideration of raising the hit debuff to 55-60%, adding much needed utility for the rhino to work with. I think that given the "chance to debuff" nature of the ability, this is more than reasonable. I would also support raising the crit chance fully buffed to 45-50, this would make it more competitive with the other classes while still making it the lowest (for reference, the mage is the second lowest and gets 52).

[Vapourised]

I always felt that for rhinos to be a viable class in PvP, twink and endgame, they would need to be defensively superior than their opponents while having their offensive capabilities be used for team fights. I was fooling around with my 71 rhino, historically rhinos were one of the worst classes there, and i tried different forms of builds vs the updated IB bear. Here is what i got.

Bears without a doubt is the best class in 71 ever since Iron Blood was buffed. They curb stomp mages and birds alike, rarely do they lose health. With rhino if i tried to invest into my offensive build i would end up just the same as every other class, but if i went into a defensive build i start to win majority of my fights against the bear. This is achieved by invest max points into all armor buffs, Guardian and Stone, 9 into restore, 9 into H/s Debuffs, Rhino Might and Summon, 9 into Vital Force for debuffs, and the trump card Brutal Force. Brutal Force will give me a edge against the bear by giving me sheer H/s and Dodge. While in a fight the bear barely has the ability to keep up once i start using all my skills in conjunction. The fight plays out with me constantly debuffing his H/s and Hit while I'm slowly chipping damage on his health.

Since rhino is a paladin class it focuses mostly on team support. This here is the summary of what a Paladin does,"Most of these powers relate to providing benefits to those around the Paladin. These include healing and curing of disease, morale in combat and turning of undead." As you can see not all of the abilities pallies can do translate to PL but the important onces are Healing and curing of diseases, Curing of diseases mean removing negative debuffs for your party, and Morale in combat, providing any forms of buffs whether damage and armor. With that being noted let's talk about how we can redo the class.

These following skills do not need to be changed because they are good where they are now. Charge, Restore, Meditation, Guardian, Holy Tempest, and Revive. Those skills are balanced perfectly in my opinion. That leaves Rhino Might, Redemption, Brute Force, Summon, Vital Force, and stone. Let's work from there.

Rhino might is a CC that debuffs the enemies H/s. As you level it up it has a chance to stun. I would personally prefer if the Debuff on H/s was increased to be slightly higher. At level 6 it only debuffs -8 H/s and at level 10 it only debuffs -22. A better number would be L.6=-12 and level 10=-30.

Redemption could be done better. People keep complaining that it des x2 Damage, and while i disagree i am up for change. Remove the damage multiplier and replace it with a stun. The stun should be only activated on combo. Redemption should also have a chance to debuff armor. 30 should be the max that can be debuffed at level 10. Cinco can do the rest from there.

Brute Force is a skill i hated until recently. It offers up such interesting gameplay and opportunities towards new forms of tank builds. I would increase the total amount of H/s that is given at every level for the skill. Along with buffing the total H/s i would also increase how much total armor is given to my teammates. 25 should be set to max. Rhinos should NOT benefit from party buff on Brute Force.

Summon is a great skill but i think the devs missed a shot with it. Increasing the total H/s reduction would be excellent but also introducing a Mana debuff would be neat also. Mages are easily the worst matchup that a rhino can have. Even if you manage to crack their HP you'd be left with having to now deal with their MP thanks to Mana Shield. If Summon could debuff M/s it would end the cycle of rhinos being pushed over by mages thanks to their M/s and bears thanks to their H/s.

Vital Force is the best party buff in game. It just so happens to be placed on a class that barely can do much with it. Incrasing the total damage the buff gives while only leaving a fraction of it as a individual buff would be excellent and weed off all complaints. Hit and Crit stats don't meed to be chanced.

Stone just needs more armor. Even when paired with guardian it's still not a significant thing buff compared to other classes. Buffing the total armor given is the best option. Another option would be giving Stone a HP instead of increasing armor. Consider the fact that rhinos possess the lowest total HP stats of ALL classes it would be logical to decrease the gap between rhinos and bears. The more the health a class has the more demanding the heals would be. H/s carries restore after all. This would be a double edged sword if done correctly.

This is my personal opinion on whats best for rhino.

That's interesting that is. So rhino essentially only has one counter at 71 which is mages. Does tank rhino fare well vs birds and foxes also? I'm under the impression that it still does since rhino can just kite and stun fox while being immune to their armour shred debuff.
Time to find me a beastly set and lvl my rhino. I've always wanted a good lvl for my rhino and 56 wasn't it.

I did fight ur 71 rhino but I wasn't using beastly but a dex set so didnt get the health bonus from str set. I hope you drew ur conclusions from fighting a 71 beastly bear and not on our fights lel.

[MageFFA]

That's interesting that is. So rhino essentially only has one counter at 71 which is mages. Does tank rhino fare well vs birds and foxes also? I'm under the impression that it still does since rhino can just kite and stun fox while being immune to their armour shred debuff.
Time to find me a beastly set and lvl my rhino. I've always wanted a good lvl for my rhino and 56 wasn't it.

At 71 rhinos will out tank birds enough to win by default. Rhinos are and has always been a direct counter to birds. Hit buff makes it so blind doesn't do as much either. Foxes is a tricky matchup. The fox main objective is to end the fight early and not let it go the distance. The tempo of the fight will be set the minute the rhino starts using summon and rhino might. Now you're on a time limit. Just losing 18 H/s alone is significant. Timing shred is upmost important. This plays exactly like how bear rhino is but the difference is that the bear is strong enough to force the rhino back to save it's own life. If it goes the distance it's still anyones game, though the rhino will win the majority.

Mage v rhino is just a automatic stomp. If they don't kill you initially on combo then once they M/s call it quits. Redemption doesn't give HP back when comboed on MS.

[MageFFA]

Also Paladin is a class that doesn't need damage buffs to win against non-healing classes. If the level is balanced and is Regeneration dominant then they can control the fight to their advantage unless the regen is far more than what the rhino can debuff.

[Vapourised]

At 71 rhinos will out tank birds enough to win by default. Rhinos are and has always been a direct counter to birds. Hit buff makes it so blind doesn't do as much either. Foxes is a tricky matchup. The fox main objective is to end the fight early and not let it go the distance. The tempo of the fight will be set the minute the rhino starts using summon and rhino might. Now you're on a time limit. Just losing 18 H/s alone is significant. Timing shred is upmost important. This plays exactly like how bear rhino is but the difference is that the bear is strong enough to force the rhino back to save it's own life. If it goes the distance it's still anyones game, though the rhino will win the majority.

Mage v rhino is just a automatic stomp. If they don't kill you initially on combo then once they M/s call it quits. Redemption doesn't give HP back when comboed on MS.

Yeah about foxes. They seem to be pretty easy to beat as rhino at 56. I always keep foxes far away and even if they get close, they have to to usually use a number of skills to wear down the rhino but they're pushed back the moment they catch up. Tempest counters fox pretty well imo with the knockback and stun. Had a few FFAs with Nae's fox so that's how I came to this conclusion. Both of us were using mace sets.

Maybe it's different at 71 im not sure.

[Vapourised]

Also correct me if I'm wrong but once a mage uses ms, you can't health sap with redemption let alone drain. If you use those skills on a shielded mage, it just does damage to their mana pool without any regeneration.

This is one of the big issues for rhino when fighting a mage since rhino depends on getting their hp back. The same is true when a mage casts drain on a shielded mage (I think?).

[Bidigeldi]

Stop asking for balance changes I want more vanities to show off in town. Cinco please make new vanities pls

[Absolize]

Stop asking for balance changes I want more vanities to show off in town. Cinco please make new vanities pls

No, if you played rhino in the Honor Arena you would understand why I can’t have fun at all.

[MageFFA]

Stop asking for balance changes I want more vanities to show off in town. Cinco please make new vanities pls

Events are monthly while changes to PvP happens once every 2-3 years. Calm yourself.

[Congeniality]

Stop asking for balance changes I want more vanities to show off in town. Cinco please make new vanities pls


This thread needs to address lv 100 honor rhino. That was the original poster's intent and I think a discussion on that is what we need here.

[Vapourised]

I've been thinking:

Very slightly reduce the cooldown on holy tempest? Imo it's the most important skill for rhino that deals consistent damage. That combined with increased crit and tempest having 100% chance (because who liked RNG?) to hit you with a greater debuff could bring rhinos into the meta (finally).

Just a suggestion.

[Absolize]

I've been thinking:

Very slightly reduce the cooldown on holy tempest? Imo it's the most important skill for rhino that deals consistent damage. That combined with increased crit and tempest having 100% chance (because who liked RNG?) to hit you with a greater debuff could bring rhinos into the meta (finally).

Just a suggestion.

I feel Holy Tempest should last 5 seconds (both the stun and hit debuff) with -60 to -70% hit and the cooldown should be 7 seconds, same concept as the Blind Shot on the bird. Also think the hit debuff should 100% work anytime I use it and it lands.

[NukeDragon]

I would also like to add, because I have done some testing as well. The healing is so low with the L105 honor set. As a mage/ tank, paladin runs very low with its heals in a L105 set.

[Congeniality]

I feel Holy Tempest should last 5 seconds (both the stun and hit debuff) with -60 to -70% hit and the cooldown should be 7 seconds, same concept as the Blind Shot on the bird. Also think the hit debuff should 100% work anytime I use it and it lands.

I don't want to be debuffed and displaced 80% of the time with the iterability of a 7 second cooldown. That is soooooo overkill.

[Waug]

I really don't feel like doing forum ATM, but just in case If i check n find this type of thread, ehh

What about rhino team buff and fast move skills, those r skills too, that's not the way u compare skills for a particular thing that's weak for a particular class.

Rhino in a team is quite viable if not op under certain circumstances, what's about that, wanna make rhion op in team fight? Ya I'm talking about honor and forget what it will bring to myth pvp, RIP (if not already)

I really don't understand what fox n rhino players want? Lazily click with mouse yet opponent is dead, ya in honor pvp
Fox was already buffed - unjustified. Forget about the tp and stand glitch they always do, there need a fix for that otherwise these classes should be banned in pvp in the first place.

[Absolize]

I really don't feel like doing forum ATM, but just in case If i check n find this type of thread, ehh

What about rhino team buff and fast move skills, those r skills too, that's not the way u compare skills for a particular thing that's weak for a particular class.

Rhino in a team is quite viable if not op under certain circumstances, what's about that, wanna make rhion op in team fight? Ya I'm talking about honor and forget what it will bring to myth pvp, RIP (if not already)

I really don't understand what fox n rhino players want? Lazily click with mouse yet opponent is dead, ya in honor pvp
Fox was already buffed - unjustified. Forget about the tp and stand glitch they always do, there need a fix for that otherwise these classes should be banned in pvp in the first place.

The teleport glitch is not a glitch Rhino and Fox can willingly do, it’s a glitch in the game. And for the last time, no one is talking about Mythic PvP. Mythic PvP stats are so high that no debuff serves a purpose anyway, and birds and foxes are the best Mythic PvP classes in my personal opinion. But again, save Mythic PvP for another thread, I’m discussing a clear problem with all the screenshots anyone needs to see Rhinos stats are a lot worse than all the other classes.

[Waug]

I totally talked about honor, and just extended where required. U really can't save myth for another thread since what u change with class here will impact mainstream pvp and upcoming cap too, if any.

[Absolize]

I don't want to be debuffed and displaced 80% of the time with the iterability of a 7 second cooldown. That is soooooo overkill.

The point is something needs to be done with the Critical Hit and Holy Tempest skill. Rhino only has 3 skills that really do anything damage wise, being Charge, Redemption & Holy Tempest.

[Absolize]

I totally talked about honor, and just extended where required. U really can't save myth for another thread since what u change with class here will impact mainstream pvp and upcoming cap too, if any.

You have no clue what you’re talking about if you call Rhino OP in any scenario in Honor. Absolutely nothing about that class makes it OP in Honor. And no, it will not effect Mythic PvP because the stats are so ridiculously high that debuffs do not work anyway. All classes have 200%+ hit in Mythic.

[Waug]

Oof please read my post carefully, I didn't say it's op

Nope, fox n rhino can do BOTH the glitch willingly and repeatedly, if u don't know that then it's a different story.

[Absolize]

Rhino in a team is quite viable if not op under certain circumstances, what's about that, wanna make rhion op in team fight? Ya I'm talking about honor and forget what it will bring to myth pvp, RIP (if not already)

I did read it.

[Waug]

Good for u. XD

[Cqrd]

I really don't feel like doing forum ATM, but just in case If i check n find this type of thread, ehh

What about rhino team buff and fast move skills, those r skills too, that's not the way u compare skills for a particular thing that's weak for a particular class.

Rhino in a team is quite viable if not op under certain circumstances, what's about that, wanna make rhion op in team fight? Ya I'm talking about honor and forget what it will bring to myth pvp, RIP (if not already)

I really don't understand what fox n rhino players want? Lazily click with mouse yet opponent is dead, ya in honor pvp
Fox was already buffed - unjustified. Forget about the tp and stand glitch they always do, there need a fix for that otherwise these classes should be banned in pvp in the first place.

it won’t do anything in myth because rhino is not op due to it’s skills but the op stat sets.. how do you not understand this by now a little buff to rhino won’t make it dominate in myth at all. Honors set being more based on skills of a class, due to low stats really shows that rhino needs a bit of a buff to compete.
1. You don’t see rhinos in honors
2. You don’t play rhino

[Waug]

it won’t do anything in myth because rhino is not op due to it’s skills but the op stat sets.. how do you not understand this by now a little buff to rhino won’t make it dominate in myth at all. Honors set being more based on skills of a class, due to low stats really shows that rhino needs a bit of a buff to compete.
1. You don’t see rhinos in honors
2. You don’t play rhino

1. I talked about honor pvp all the time here and what i'm going to say is also about honor, if that confusing.
2. Rhino is quite good in team play what u call 3v3 / 2v2, buffing it means making it OP there.
3. Rhino's team buff and speed moves are also skills, there's one way advantage to having weakness other way, imagine a mage complain about not being tanky
4. There are lots of ppl wouldn't even play as rhino even if you make em super OP that's not the parameter of judging.

Exactly what happened with unjustified fox buff latter for honor, I want to dash, I want to fast kill even with slow mouse click in computer, I want to run until even a weak class loose it's buff, I want to dash away and rejoin after I got low during a fight but I won't let rejoin opponent after he respawn by dashing towards him even after getting killed and respawn and not to mention rejoin after each kill, I'll also tp from behind tree, if not enough i'll summon my invincibility framework and letting not anyone even attack me as long as I want and after all of this i'll cry if opponent bear because i'm not OP enough to do all this things to a bear.

Now you guys want rhino to do the same but good luck.

[MageFFA]

1. I talked about honor pvp all the time here and what i'm going to say is also about honor, if that confusing.
2. Rhino is quite good in team play what u call 3v3 / 2v2, buffing it means making it OP there.
3. Rhino's team buff and speed moves are also skills, there's one way advantage to having weakness other way, imagine a mage complain about not being tanky
4. There are lots of ppl wouldn't even play as rhino even if you make em super OP that's not the parameter of judging.

Exactly what happened with unjustified fox buff latter for honor, I want to dash, I want to fast kill even with slow mouse click in computer, I want to run until even a weak class loose it's buff, I want to dash away and rejoin after I got low during a fight but I won't let rejoin opponent after he respawn by dashing towards him even after getting killed and respawn and not to mention rejoin after each kill, I'll also tp from behind tree, if not enough i'll summon my invincibility framework and letting not anyone even attack me as long as I want and after all of this i'll cry if opponent bear because i'm not OP enough to do all this things to a bear.

Now you guys want rhino to do the same but good luck.

What exactly makes rhino op in team fights? Is having a party buff truly worth replacing a bear with a rhino? You'd lose far more CC capabilities and damage potential. Rhinos only knockback requires you to be close range to use it. Bears have 3 knockbacks at the same range. Rhinos only hit debuff is 8 meters and it debuffs by -30. Bears own a 12 meter Hit and damage debuff that takes away -70. Rhinos can't debuff damage while bears can do it twice stacked. Rhinos cannot pull your targets. Rhino also owns the lowest base HP of all the 5 classes. Bears have the highest.

Picking a rhino over a bear is a liability. Nothing overpowered about it.

[Waug]

What exactly makes rhino op in team fights? Is having a party buff truly worth replacing a bear with a rhino? You'd lose far more CC capabilities and damage potential. Rhinos only knockback requires you to be close range to use it. Bears have 3 knockbacks at the same range. Rhinos only hit debuff is 8 meters and it debuffs by -30. Bears own a 12 meter Hit and damage debuff that takes away -70. Rhinos can't debuff damage while bears can do it twice stacked. Rhinos cannot pull your targets. Rhino also owns the lowest base HP of all the 5 classes. Bears have the highest.

Picking a rhino over a bear is a liability. Nothing overpowered about it.

If you don't bother to read my post carefully I'd not bother to reply u, it clearly stated that "buffing would make it" and u wrote whole para assuming I said its op in its current state.

If you need exact alternative for bear, just play with a bear, why would u need rhino for that, to exploit things? oO

[MageFFA]

If you don't bother to read my post carefully I'd not bother to reply u, it clearly stated that "buffing would make it" and u wrote whole para assuming I said its op in its current state.

If you need exact alternative for bear, just play with a bear, why would u need rhino for that, to exploit things? oO

You've been saying rhino is OP for years, and this is no different no matter the way you word it.

In context a rhino would be a replacement for bear in any sane 3v3 hosted tournament. Not because of an exploit but because 2 tanks shouldn't be on the same team. Rhinos are only viable in what I'd assume is 5v5 but that will come at a cost of replacing your bear or an extra archer. You could do a Bear, rhino, mage, bird, bird combo but you'd lose the benefits of having another mage to act as a backline support. You could replace one of the two archers but you'd lose a significant amount of DPS and Hit debuff potential. Replacing the bear is not a option as i explained above.

[Absolize]

If you don't bother to read my post carefully I'd not bother to reply u, it clearly stated that "buffing would make it" and u wrote whole para assuming I said its op in its current state.

If you need exact alternative for bear, just play with a bear, why would u need rhino for that, to exploit things? oO

Buffing does not and will not make the rhino OP. It will never be able to replace a bear, even with the small buff im asking for.

And also, it’s not to exploit, you’re suppose to be able to play every class. Again, you do not play rhino, so you have no idea what it needs. You have came here to complain.

[MageFFA]

The point is something needs to be done with the Critical Hit and Holy Tempest skill. Rhino only has 3 skills that really do anything damage wise, being Charge, Redemption & Holy Tempest.

I believe Holy is good where it's at. It's never really been a skill that held rhinos back in PvP, If anything it and guardian are the skills that made it so that rhinos could be considered a class to PvP with. The problem lies within redemption. Redemption has recieved so many nerfs overtime that you can start to notice no significant differences between 3 and 10. Buffing redemption back to what it was in 2013 is the best option you have, but does that even help? Even in 2013, where rhinos were at their best, they still were a unreliable class in PvP above 40.

If you buffed the honor set you'd just recieve the 100 cap effect all over again. Rhinos would be carried by the damage on axe, which would then cause players such as Waug to cry foul. That will end up resulting in another nerf on the class. You would achieve nothing other than having rhinos become a even worse class than it already is. The better option is just focusing on making rhinos a better paladin.

[Waug]

Buffing does not and will not make the rhino OP. It will never be able to replace a bear, even with the small buff im asking for.

And also, it’s not to exploit, you’re suppose to be able to play every class. Again, you do not play rhino, so you have no idea what it needs. You have came here to complain.

What points and facts I've raised throughout this thread is not required to play the class, rather I'd say u don't understand what a class means in pl, what the purpose of a class and what rhino for and what it meant to do, rather you demand is to gain unjustified buffs which won't happen.

I'm not here to complain lol, ur the one complaining about the class here. You want the class to be like in honor what it has been in main stream pvp since 100 pvp.

[Absolize]

What points and facts I've raised throughout this thread is not required to play the class, rather I'd say u don't understand what a class means in pl, what the purpose of a class and what rhino for and what it meant to do, rather you demand is to gain unjustified buffs which won't happen.

I'm not here to complain lol, ur the one complaining about the class here. You want the class to be like in honor what it has been in main stream pvp since 100 pvp.

You can’t tell me what the purpose is of a class you do not play, I’m the only one who plays the class. The 2 buffs I requested are absolutely justified with all the proof needed in the screenshots I provided. I’ve done tons of experimenting and I know what it needs to become a relevant class in the Honor Arena. Nothing I requested will make the class overpowered, it will make it simply compete. Even with the buffs it still won’t hold itself against a bear tank wise, these buffs here will help it sub a mage better.

[Waug]

You can’t tell me what the purpose is of a class you do not play, I’m the only one who plays the class. The 2 buffs I requested are absolutely justified with all the proof needed in the screenshots I provided. I’ve done tons of experimenting and I know what it needs to become a relevant class in the Honor Arena. Nothing I requested will make the class overpowered, it will make it simply compete. Even with the buffs it still won’t hold itself against a bear tank wise, these buffs here will help it sub a mage better.

Putting some random stats and ss doesn't and can't prove anything lol & yes I can, if you can't take a class what it is meant for then u should play the class accordingly ur need. It's not meant for nuke any non tanky class while ur on huge buff and absorb all damage with the ability to get close instantly. Rhino does pretty good in 2v2, 3v3 (maybe contact some <food> guild rhinos). Now again if u compare with bear, its itself sitting on +200 armor which was given for myth pvp, not for honor type pvp, what I mean? it's already messed up and it's little bit more tanky in honor then what it should be. Same repetitive things I'm not going to type again n again lol, so I think Ima end this topic right here, but if you wanna bring some solid points, Im always here to discuss.

Ah there were days when people would understand the classes and would support and wait to nuke low hp opponents and now everyone wanna nuke while being tanky. Cinco might consider making a super class with all the Tankiness + CC + team debuff + heal n buff to team + nuke, maybe someday.

[Absolize]

Putting some random stats and ss doesn't and can't prove anything lol & yes I can, if you can't take a class what it is meant for then u should play the class accordingly ur need. It's not meant for nuke any non tanky class while ur on huge buff and absorb all damage with the ability to get close instantly. Rhino does pretty good in 2v2, 3v3. Now again if u compare with bear, its itself sitting on +200 armor which was given for myth pvp, not for honor type pvp, what I mean? it's already messed up. Same repetitive things I'm not going to type again n again lol, so I think Ima end this topic right here, but if you wanna bring some solid points, Im always here to discuss.

Posting these “random stats” proves that rhino is underpowered in each bracket I posted. I’m not here to debate with a biased player. I have all the proof I need that the buffs I requested would be a nice addition to the class, and not break it at the same time, my goal is to make it even and make rhino have a chance.

[Waug]

Biased lolol, since 100 what hook all did was BK with 1 hit kills

But I know ur pro dude, a pro rhino.

[Absolize]

Biased lolol, since 100 what hook all did was BK with 1 hit kills

But I know ur pro dude, a pro rhino.

I ended 100 cap with 16k kills, I now have 38k.

Not saying I’m a professional by any means. I play honor rhino enough now to know what I’m doing and know what it needs, to be honest, you just proved my point. You’re bringing up 100 cap issues when we are now at 110. Everyone was abusing pure stat guns against me so of course I’m going to retaliate. As said earlier, I’m not going to argue with you about your grudges from 2 caps ago.

I’m here to address the issue now with the Rhino in the Honor Arena, not what happened with pure stat weapons, when in fact, every class (bird being one of them) was broken with the weapons. But being off that topic now, again, all the proof I need is in the very detailed post above. I’m done responding to you on this matter, I will continue discussing the issues the Rhino currently and clearly has in Honor, all the proof of the needed buffs are already stated.

[Waug]

Grudges lol? Nah I still posting bcz I like u, I already concluded the discussion, if u read


I have no grudge over anyone lol,

Edit : One thing I'll have to disagree about, what I mean was of course rhino since 100 cap and that's without gun.

[MageFFA]

Grudges lol? Nah I still posting bcz I like u, I already concluded the discussion, if u read


I have no grudge over anyone lol,

Edit : One thing I'll have to disagree about, what I mean was of course rhino since 100 cap and that's without gun.

I don't know how many times i have to explain it just for people to not read. The axe that rhinos used in 100 cap had significantly more damage after the devs paid attention to the complaints rhino mains had during 76, 77, 80, and 85 cap. Rhinos could not compete in either of those levels, so StS dedicided to make a cap where that would no longer be the case. Rhinos axe had nearly the same amount of damage as birds talon, which was the highest total damage in 100. Saying rhinos were OP in 100 is no different than saying birds were op in 76. Both of those levels resulted in a nerf that made the class garbage everywhere else.

Even in 100 whers rhinos had a significant advantage over the other classes it still wasn't a curbstomp victory that you kept complaining about. Majority in endgame during that time NEVER SAW A RHINO IN PvP. As they began to adjust they started doing far better. If rhinos were OP as you claimed then theh should of won the 2v2 tourney, which they didn't.

If rhino as a class is such a problem then tell me exactly why they didn't doninate 85 like the other levels you continue to talk about? Rhinos haven't recieved a buff since it came out. During 85 cap the last nerf on the class was in 2014. So why exactly did you not complain in 85?

[Waug]

I don't know how many times i have to explain it just for people to not read. The axe that rhinos used in 100 cap had significantly more damage after the devs paid attention to the complaints rhino mains had during 76, 77, 80, and 85 cap. Rhinos could not compete in either of those levels, so StS dedicided to make a cap where that would no longer be the case. Rhinos axe had nearly the same amount of damage as birds talon, which was the highest total damage in 100. Saying rhinos were OP in 100 is no different than saying birds were op in 76. Both of those levels resulted in a nerf that made the class garbage everywhere else.

Even in 100 whers rhinos had a significant advantage over the other classes it still wasn't a curbstomp victory that you kept complaining about. Majority in endgame during that time NEVER SAW A RHINO IN PvP. As they began to adjust they started doing far better. If rhinos were OP as you claimed then theh should of won the 2v2 tourney, which they didn't.

If rhino as a class is such a problem then tell me exactly why they didn't doninate 85 like the other levels you continue to talk about? Rhinos haven't recieved a buff since it came out. During 85 cap the last nerf on the class was in 2014. So why exactly did you not complain in 85?

My dear friend, please read all the para I typed in past, doesn't matter what u say, it's broken since 100
when I say broken it doesn't mean it's OP in every angle but in a critical way
I even offered many right way buffed but trim the broken angle, u denied everything.

So no new point even left to discuss.

[holdmytalons]

He wont even fix regular pvp hes not gonna fix rhino in debuff pvp

[holdmytalons]

I really don't feel like doing forum ATM, but just in case If i check n find this type of thread, ehh

What about rhino team buff and fast move skills, those r skills too, that's not the way u compare skills for a particular thing that's weak for a particular class.

Rhino in a team is quite viable if not op under certain circumstances, what's about that, wanna make rhion op in team fight? Ya I'm talking about honor and forget what it will bring to myth pvp, RIP (if not already)

I really don't understand what fox n rhino players want? Lazily click with mouse yet opponent is dead, ya in honor pvp
Fox was already buffed - unjustified. Forget about the tp and stand glitch they always do, there need a fix for that otherwise these classes should be banned in pvp in the first place.Waug just shut up if u lose to a rhino in honor delete pl rn they r useless in honor

[Vapourised]

Very unlikely that they will rework rhino class.
They haven't given any attention to pvp in a very long while. This is even more the case now that they are working on PL2.

However, I don't believe that it is that hard to tweak a few numbers.

[Absolize]

Very unlikely that they will rework rhino class.
They haven't given any attention to pvp in a very long while. This is even more the case now that they are working on PL2.

However, I don't believe that it is that hard to tweak a few numbers.

I believe Cinco would look into it.

[MageFFA]

My dear friend, please read all the para I typed in past, doesn't matter what u say, it's broken since 100
when I say broken it doesn't mean it's OP in every angle but in a critical way
I even offered many right way buffed but trim the broken angle, u denied everything.

So no new point even left to discuss.

What is broken about rhino? The glitches shouldn't be held over the classes head but over the developers that never patched it. That's the only thing "broken" about the class.

[Absolize]

What is broken about rhino? The glitches shouldn't be held over the classes head but over the developers that never patched it. That's the only thing "broken" about the class.

Everyone says the rhino/fox glitch is intentional. But I myself have never heard of any intentional glitches and I’ve never done any kind of glitch intentionally. But that’s not the source of the problem, rhino needs work in Honor.