Relationship Between Armor and Damage

[Buddyf97]

Alright guys! So as we all know, the damage you are said you can deal isnt actually dealt because of armor. But how can you predict that damage? I've been testing for quite a while and became stumped! Now I need you guys to check out what I have done and see what ive done wrong and what I can try!


WARNING! THIS USES AN EXTENSIVE AMOUNT OF MATH!
^^ You can't say I didn't warn you!

Alright! So I initially thought that damage output (now known as O) and your damage (now known as D) are directly related. So...

O=k(D)
k is an unknown
Now how do we factor in armor?! This is armor of your opponent, not to be mistaken by your own armor. I think that armor is inversely related. So...

O=k(D) / A
A represents armor
Now what does k equal? After running a few tests I noticed K equals about 20-22. But this test was done on my 56.
I initially thought I cracked the code! NOT! When I went to my endgame character and tried to test it out it was totally off! At lvl 65/66 k equals about 40-42.


Now the real question...
WHAT DOES K EQUAL?

I am stumped! Post any ideas below and I'll try them out! I'm thinking either damage or armor must be used to find K. Or does it need something else like hit % or speed of the weapon?! Thanks!
-Buddyf

[Huskybird]

Yup I was there when you were testing it out.lol

[Windwaiker]

Wait so armor lowers your damage output according to this formula?

[Appleisaac]

Huh... I always thought that DMG-ARM=ACTUAL DMG

Lol ^_^ I must be wrong.

[Buddyf97]

Huh... I always thought that DMG-ARM=ACTUAL DMG

Lol ^_^ I must be wrong.

If this is the case I'm gonna have to inflict some pain on someone or something...



Wait so armor lowers your damage output according to this formula?

It is the armor of your opponent, I'll make sure I clarify that!

[Phoenixking]

You didn't say I help you come up with the 40 o.o we tried ( wep spead x 40)stat dmg / armor but it doesn't work
armor and damage does have something to do, and through levels it seems like the k change, check anything different between your 56 and endgame char, weapon speed, hit, dodge, crit, and weapon procs+ weapon type, may depend on the Level as well o.o, may be many factors or try the simplistic dmg-armor=damage dealt
Its always been thought it was that simplistic equation, and I as well though that too, but I thought you tried it, and husky was so confuse and was all what's 40? What's 21? Lmao

[mackjack]

I also thought that the enemy's armor value is subtracted from your damage to get the actual damage.

Wish Physiologic was still around to answer this question. :(

[Windwaiker]

Hmmm, if k is weapon damage etc, then use the same weapon you used with the lower level on the higher level?

[Huskybird]

Hey lol I didn't know what it ment for...but now I do,sort of.lmao

[Phoenixking]

Hey lol I didn't know what it ment for...but now I do,sort of.lmao
Lmao, you still don't...trust me....

[Huskybird]

Ehhh idc at least I can beat you in pvp. Hahahahah and you replied quick

[Phoenixking]

Lmao I was searching for stuff, and by the way, its even mr longbow

[Windwaiker]

Huh... I always thought that DMG-ARM=ACTUAL DMG

Lol ^_^ I must be wrong.


I just went to a low level dungeon to test this out, because I was also sure it would be d - a = o

So far, I believe that's true. I do around the same amount of damage to the same types of monsters. I only used weapons that had a consistent dmg range, no skills, not counting criticals.

[Appleisaac]

I just went to a low level dungeon to test this out, because I was also sure it would be d - a = o

So far, I believe that's true. I do around the same amount of damage to the same types of monsters. I only used weapons that had a consistent dmg range, no skills, not counting criticals.
Wow... Huh, poor buddy...

[Phoenixking]

Do you know what's the exact armor of the mobs? It's not that a mob has different factors, if buddy's equation did work the damage dealt to the mob would as well be consistent, so. The way to test this out it by pvp
So I just tried out that old equation , from my fight with husky, he had 131 armor and my avg stat damage was 307
307-131=176
but when I fought husky i actually did around 100 not around 176, so that proves the simple equation actually wrong, this means there is a hidden number and has to relate to possibly some other stat or just a Pocket legends damage armor relation hidden equation :o

[Elyseon]

Yeh i thought armour just subtracted off dmg but idk

What i wanna know is if higher hit% counters higher opponent dodge, someone told me it just subtracted off the dodge when ur hit was above 100% but ppl with 30 dodge still dodge over my 153% hit, all i can guess is that when ur hit% is above 100 then u get 2 shots each time if they dodge the first 100% of the hit then i would have a hidden retry of 53% to hit over their dodge

Idk sry for being off topic but figuring that^ out really bothers me lol

[Sryyoulose]

Yeh i thought armour just subtracted off dmg but idk

What i wanna know is if higher hit% counters higher opponent dodge, someone told me it just subtracted off the dodge when ur hit was above 100% but ppl with 30 dodge still dodge over my 153% hit, all i can guess is that when ur hit% is above 100 then u get 2 shots each time if they dodge the first 100% of the hit then i would have a hidden retry of 53% to hit over their dodge

Idk sry for being off topic but figuring that^ out really bothers me lol
Hit% does nothing to negate dodge, Crit helps negate dodge $.$

[Phoenixking]

Yeh i thought armour just subtracted off dmg but idk

What i wanna know is if higher hit% counters higher opponent dodge, someone told me it just subtracted off the dodge when ur hit was above 100% but ppl with 30 dodge still dodge over my 153% hit, all i can guess is that when ur hit% is above 100 then u get 2 shots each time if they dodge the first 100% of the hit then i would have a hidden retry of 53% to hit over their dodge

Idk sry for being off topic but figuring that^ out really bothers me lol
Hmm...it seems very interesting o.o, and that could be right, a lot of people thought that there was only actually 99%hit the highest, but then whats the extra hit for, well it could actually be for that or...another hidden equation o.o, ever noticed that dodge doesn't have a % sign on the numbers o.o, it doesn't say anything about dodge percent o.o

[Buddyf97]

Yeh i thought armour just subtracted off dmg but idk

What i wanna know is if higher hit% counters higher opponent dodge, someone told me it just subtracted off the dodge when ur hit was above 100% but ppl with 30 dodge still dodge over my 153% hit, all i can guess is that when ur hit% is above 100 then u get 2 shots each time if they dodge the first 100% of the hit then i would have a hidden retry of 53% to hit over their dodge

Idk sry for being off topic but figuring that^ out really bothers me lol

Totally fine! The same thing perplexes me too! I think it's h(100-d) for h is hit and d is dodge. My educated guessitmation.



Hit% does nothing to negate dodge, Crit helps negate dodge $.$


WHA? Explaining to do! I did some testing with Shankai. When a Charmin' set was used compared to Lilith it hit more because of higher hit or high crit? I don't think charmin' has higher crit than Lilith, or does it?

[Elitephonix]

On wow can we just say it =3.14?

[Windwaiker]

Do you know what's the exact armor of the mobs? It's not that a mob has different factors, if buddy's equation did work the damage dealt to the mob would as well be consistent, so. The way to test this out it by pvp
So I just tried out that old equation , from my fight with husky, he had 131 armor and my avg stat damage was 307
307-131=176
but when I fought husky i actually did around 100 not around 176, so that proves the simple equation actually wrong, this means there is a hidden number and has to relate to possibly some other stat or just a Pocket legends damage armor relation hidden equation :o

So in pvp you can actually see the dmg numbers? Or the opponent has a way of knowing their amount of health? Or is this just judging from the amount the hp bar got chopped on husky's end?

I did some tests in lost expedition. My DPS was a talon, 129-133. On the normal mobs there, I did around 115, which means that their armor was around 16 (assuming the d-a=o is correct).

Next,I equipped a wing that added 4 dmg, and improved damage range to 133-137. Sure enough, damage output jumped up to around 119-120.

Then, I used break armor, which reduces armor by 26, more than enough to strip away the 16 mob armor. I started doing around 133-137.

I also used shattering scream, also reduced armor by 16. Hey, I did around 133-137 too!

I tested this with the yetis too. The yetis have ~60 armor, so my output was only around 75. I used break armor, and my output went to numbers around 101. Used shattering scream on another Yeti, damage went up to 89-92.

What does this prove? A higher damage range will increase your damage in the way it is shown, and debuffs strip away the same amount of armor as said on the description. From what I could gather in a few minutes, O= d-a+f, where O= damage output, d=your damage, a=enemy armor, and f=armor debuff amount.

Its possible pvp has a different equation, but until i or someone else posts more details about their experiment, then im still inclined to believe there is only one equation for all damage.

[mackjack]

@windwaiker

I like it. Nice job!

Just one minor point: I don't think it's possible for mobs to end up with negative armor, so the euqation is probably:

if (a > f)
a = a - f
else
a = 0

O = d - a

[Windwaiker]

@windwaiker

I like it. Nice job!

Just one minor point: I don't think it's possible for mobs to end up with negative armor, so the euqation is probably:

if (a > f)
a = a - f
else
a = 0

O = d - a

Oh yeah, thanks for catching that! I knew mobs wouldnt have negative armor or else i'd be doing more damage than i had! :o

[Phoenixking]

I think I understood the hit and dodge thing, ever noticed that when you don't hit you get miss but when someone dodges they get dodged, so this is what it is, they are two different things, they don't affect each other, hit is if you hit, if you don't it means miss, in pvp you never miss....thats cause of 100% or more hit sometimes debuffs can make you miss. Dodge is if the opponent or yourself dodges a hit it will only happen no matter what, so you roll for hit and they roll for dodge they aren't related. But this is my theory

[Sky../]

Over 100% hit rate is so that even if you're debuffed, you can still have a hit rate of 100%.

Re: damage and armor on pvp, it is highly possible that damage is penalized by a certain percentage to make duels last a bit longer.

[FluffNStuff]

O = (d-a) > 7

[MightyMicah]

Every test I have ever done in near 2 years of playing has shown that damage-armor=total damage. (even if it's not, it's close enough so that it might as well be) No offense or anything, but I doubt the error is with the formula, instead i believe the error lies In your testing. Especially if you tested in PvE.

I highly recommend PvP testing. Simply because PvE is so varying. I mean you take into account that each type of enemy is different (swordsman, axeman, mage, archer, crossbow archer, etc.) They all have varying health and armor. And on top of this your level, and their aggro level is going to change health and armor as well to the point that PvE testing is
near fruitless.

Hoped I helped at least a little :\
~MM

[Buddyf97]

Every test I have ever done in near 2 years of playing has shown that damage-armor=total damage. (even if it's not, it's close enough so that it might as well be) No offense or anything, but I doubt the error is with the formula, instead i believe the error lies In your testing. Especially if you tested in PvE.

I highly recommend PvP testing. Simply because PvE is so varying. I mean you take into account that each type of enemy is different (swordsman, axeman, mage, archer, crossbow archer, etc.) They all have varying health and armor. And on top of this your level, and their aggro level is going to change health and armor as well to the point that PvE testing is
near fruitless.

Hoped I helped at least a little :\
~MM

My original testing was in pvp...