Public appeal for Rep removal

[dudetus]

Reputation system is destroying these forums.

At the beginning I thought it was a fun system: I was able to express if I liked someone's post. We all were all excited about it in the beginning. But to what direction it has been steering these forums nowadays...

Rep seems to be all that matters nowadays. For some it means thing to be pursued for. And some hunt down the ones to whom the rep matters while do-gooders (not trying to offend) come and defend the thread maker hoping for improvement and encouraging the maker most commonly without any hope. By this I mean this:

Guy X makes a ridiculous guide/list clearly just to earn himself some spare thanks. Guy Z comes in and states the real purpose of the "guide" and after that Guy C comes and defends Guy X. Then comes the flame war...

Besides this fact reputation system makes newcomers harder to be accustomed with others and to be heared. Rep system favors those with more thanks and those without any of them remain often unnoticed and unheared. Like if I say some idea in a thread and just after me a newcomer says even better idea, it's most likely my thread would get more views and overall attention than some new one's better thread about the same excact thing. Not the best example but I am sure u get the point.

But the biggest problem is the pursue of reputation and thanks by some. When I daily scroll down the General Discussion section there must be at least 2 guides which are usually not that much of a use. This is done most likely to pursue GoA or AoA as an example but some see the rep system as a bypass to fame. Take a look of DL forums: On the very first day of DL release we had full page of diffirent guides and item lists on general discussion. On the very first day! It took months for PL forums to develop that many guides/lists.

There'll be more...

[dudetus]

GoA, SG and the future DL community reward systems give the wrong image of the meaning of the forums. They are things to pursue for some alongside with the reputation system. If it was up to me, I would just bury them. If ppl r willing to help, they will, even though they were not rewarded. But for me the Reputation system is a bigger "threat".

What I want u to do is to comment this thread if u want to help me pursuing the change. If the thread causes enough of discussion it will be noticed and hopefully my idea gets reviewed and the changes will come

I know all of u agree with me if ur intentions are right here in the forums. If u disagree it only shows ur real intentions to be here...

And yes, don't u dare to thank me.

[Otukura]

*gives rep*

[Lowlyspy]

Yup, it needs to go.

[ninjaduck]

I sign this ever important petition to remove reputation points from the STS forums! :p

[MightyMicah]

Rep was never the problem and never will be. I don't sign the petition...

[dudetus]

Rep was never the problem and never will be. I don't sign the petition...

Well tell me what is the problem? If there is any from ur pov.

[RaptorBlitz]

Well, if people keep making junk-as guides, let them. Let them waste their time. What's an extra thread for a forum of thousands?

[dudetus]

Well, if people keep making junk-as guides, let them. Let them waste their time. What's an extra thread for a forum of thousands?

The problem are not the junk guides but the discussion which they cause. Flame wars always hurt the atmosphere of the community and nowadays ppl r seemingly frustrated and reveal their true opinions instead of just ignoring. Enough is enough for all of us it seems.

[Cahaun]

Just signed it by saying this. It needs to go if it can fix the forums.

[MightyMicah]

@Dudetus flame wars don't come from bad threads built in an attempt to get rep. They come from people who argue. People will always argue regardless of a rep system.

This is the same argument as "guns don't kill people. People kill people."

You are removing the gun. That won't solve much.

~MM

Edit: not trying to troll lol just so many people have said the same thing about the rep and I can't disagree more strongly.

[Defyduck]

Reputation system is destroying these forums.

At the beginning I thought it was a fun system: I was able to express if I liked someone's post. We all were all excited about it in the beginning. But to what direction it has been steering these forums nowadays...

Rep seems to be all that matters nowadays. For some it means thing to be pursued for. And some hunt down the ones to whom the rep matters while do-gooders (not trying to offend) come and defend the thread maker hoping for improvement and encouraging the maker most commonly without any hope. By this I mean this:

Guy X makes a ridiculous guide/list clearly just to earn himself some spare thanks. Guy Z comes in and states the real purpose of the "guide" and after that Guy C comes and defends Guy X. Then comes the flame war...

Besides this fact reputation system makes newcomers harder to be accustomed with others and to be heared. Rep system favors those with more thanks and those without any of them remain often unnoticed and unheared. Like if I say some idea in a thread and just after me a newcomer says even better idea, it's most likely my thread would get more views and overall attention than some new one's better thread about the same excact thing. Not the best example but I am sure u get the point.

But the biggest problem is the pursue of reputation and thanks by some. When I daily scroll down the General Discussion section there must be at least 2 guides which are usually not that much of a use. This is done most likely to pursue GoA or AoA as an example but some see the rep system as a bypass to fame. Take a look of DL forums: On the very first day of DL release we had full page of diffirent guides and item lists on general discussion. On the very first day! It took months for PL forums to develop that many guides/lists.

There'll be more...

I like few points such as a new member with better idea are likely to be ignored.But on the point on guides etc. i would say yes some people just want to be famous or out of the crowd.I mean no one needs a list for pinks and wepons etc.,they all are already shown on the each map and also with % of drops.DL does not need a guide atleast not now.People like those will always make sure that their voice is more loud.I dont comment on those threads unless i see any use.

On the other hand some people are only helping and nothing else.Reputation points and thanks does not matter to me.I will still help if i can wether i get any 'thanks' or not.So it doesnt matter if its removed or not.

There are lot more people who want to make an opinion or simply help than the people who post for a 'thank'.

+1 for you,i am out of thanks.

[ninjaduck]

People are making useless/unneeded threads only for the motivation of rep. Also, the same people post boost, and ask for thanks.


What is the motivation? Do you really think they want to help people with NO self-benefit?

[Defyduck]

@Dudetus flame wars don't come from bad threads built in an attempt to get rep. They come from people who argue. People will always argue regardless of a rep system.

This is the same argument as "guns don't kill people. People kill people."

You are removing the gun. That won't solve much.

~MM

Edit: not trying to troll lol just so many people have said the same thing about the rep and I can't disagree more strongly.
Haha Well said

[Defyduck]

People are making useless/unneeded threads only for the motivation of rep. Also, the same people post boost, and ask for thanks.


What is the motivation? Do you really think they want to help people with NO self-benefit?

Many people do help w/o self-benefit

[Appleisaac]

I was about to give you rep... :P but what would that mean in a thread like this? O.o

[Suentous PO]

While I generally agree, I don't think rep is the entirety of the problem. If rep were removed there would still be the idea of GOA AOA AOB (not that I'm calling these a prob.), or simply attention for attentions sake. Its a human nature thing, one in the group would like the rest to be looking (that's not directed at anyone in pertic.)

[dudetus]

@Dudetus flame wars don't come from bad threads built in an attempt to get rep. They come from people who argue. People will always argue regardless of a rep system.

This is the same argument as "guns don't kill people. People kill people."

You are removing the gun. That won't solve much.

~MM

Edit: not trying to troll lol just so many people have said the same thing about the rep and I can't disagree more strongly.

Bad guides give ppl a reason to start a an argue. Yes, some would keep on arguing even though there wasn't reputation system. But I've seen renowned forum users and players to be part of these argues which is REALLY uncommon for them to do so. As I've already said enough is enough for all of us.

As for ur metaphore, I have to disagree.

I am not trying to remove a gun, I am trying to stop pouring gasoline into flames.

Reputation system causes more damage to the community than it's removal could ever cause.

[Walkhardd]

I could do with our without the rep system. I only use the forum app now, so I can't see rep anyways.

posts that are looking for thanks used to bug me a lot more. especially around the time when sts announced they were bringing more people into the aoa program. Idk. Maybe I'm numb to it now, but when I see a "rep boosting" post, I just kinda laugh and move on.

[dudetus]

While I generally agree, I don't think rep is the entirety of the problem. If rep were removed there would still be the idea of GOA AOA AOB (not that I'm calling these a prob.), or simply attention for attentions sake. Its a human nature thing, one in the group would like the rest to be looking (that's not directed at anyone in pertic.)

Yes, reputation system is not the only thing that can be blaimed. Reputation system still is the major thing that should be removed because it harms the community most.

GoA and SG give wrong image of the forums. They seem to offer something to pursue which normally implements as diffirent bad guides and so fort.

AoA and AoB are important programs and they should not be removed. Helping new players is a humble cause and those programs have my full support.

[Elyseon]

Yeh its pointless at this point, i understand it was meant to be fun, but some ppl ruin it for all, on mobile forum i cant see rep thankfully.
But then there are those soley driven by rep, and honestly there are some people that have loads of 'rep' that i have absolutely no respect for

Im all for this
U have my sig


X___Elyseon_____

[wvhills]

how will people know how important I am without all my rep?
P.S. please thank this comment.

[Coltona]

Reputation system is destroying these forums.


At the beginning I thought it was a fun system: I was able to express if I liked someone's post. We all were all excited about it in the beginning. But to what direction it has been steering these forums nowadays...

Rep seems to be all that matters nowadays. For some it means thing to be pursued for. And some hunt down the ones to whom the rep matters while do-gooders (not trying to offend) come and defend the thread maker hoping for improvement and encouraging the maker most commonly without any hope. By this I mean this:

Guy X makes a ridiculous guide/list clearly just to earn himself some spare thanks. Guy Z comes in and states the real purpose of the "guide" and after that Guy C comes and defends Guy X. Then comes the flame war...

Besides this fact reputation system makes newcomers harder to be accustomed with others and to be heared. Rep system favors those with more thanks and those without any of them remain often unnoticed and unheared. Like if I say some idea in a thread and just after me a newcomer says even better idea, it's most likely my thread would get more views and overall attention than some new one's better thread about the same excact thing. Not the best example but I am sure u get the point.

But the biggest problem is the pursue of reputation and thanks by some. When I daily scroll down the General Discussion section there must be at least 2 guides which are usually not that much of a use. This is done most likely to pursue GoA or AoA as an example but some see the rep system as a bypass to fame. Take a look of DL forums: On the very first day of DL release we had full page of diffirent guides and item lists on general discussion. On the very first day! It took months for PL forums to develop that many guides/lists.

There'll be more...

States the guy with 4 rep tiles (little green bars). Here's an idea:

Let's encourage people to make guides for the right reason, and make it to where guides can't be thanked unless stickied or moved to the guide section. This would cut down on pointless guides, but most likely people will still be making seemingly useless guides, and for good reason. It gives you a feeling of accomplishment to know you made something worth sharing that others can benefit from. If it is stickied or made a true guide, it becomes something you can always be proud of that thousands will see and read. And FYI guides aren't for veterans, they're for new players who are just starting the game that might need some help with the simplest of tasks.

I think you can tell when a guide is real or not.
Real:
Went into good detail, added pictures to show their meaning, added facts about the game that need to be mentioned, and didn't leave a sentence at the bottom say "If this helped you, like it."

Rep-trolls:
Quick crappy guide sloppily put together, no updates to improve it, very minute detail, no real meaning to the guide (like a guide on how to auto attack in pl) and at the end asked for thanks if it helped you.

So I say don't get rid of rep, it drives people to make helpful posts, encourage others, and stop flame wars with reason instead of trolling, which makes the forums an all-around better place to any player new or veteran. Instead if a guide is pointless don't like it, but don't flame it either, if a dev locks it that's the end of it, if not click that red triangle no one ever mentions to report the post as useless, or trollish for rep.

[octavos]

I dont have a Rep bar high enough like others here to say anything, but what I can say is this.


5. Non-Constructive posts are prohibited.

Below is a non-exhaustive list of examples of non-constructive posts. As a rule, non-constructive posting is not permitted:

Do not create threads/posts to “petition” or “lobby” for game features, additions, changes, or other issues. You may post suggestions and/or ideas to the boards, but you may not create a ‘petition’ for others to sign. This is bumping in disguise and will not be allowed. Lobbying is continually bringing up the same topic repeatedly in numerous different threads or as an off-topic post in official threads to get developer attention. This form of posting is not permitted.

I have done my homework before "I" say anything. Rep system has its benefits, but instead of crating issues where there is not. let people be people and if you dont like a post move on.

Also *IBFL* :p

[Coltona]

In before the lock :)

[Matutd]

What is the motivation? Do you really think they want to help people with NO self-benefit?
Aren't u an AoA?

[Ixillicus]

Honestly, I think that the rep system has little bearing on whether or not flaming or trolls will occur. I have used to forums for a long time and I give great tribute to some of those who made guides and gave help before the rep system occurred.

I think the problem stems from the growth in popularity and the stagnated content. There isn't much that has changed and there isn't a lot that has not already been documented. There will always be players who are very involved and who want to stand out. If they are making an effort (even if it's pointless) why not let them. I think it's up to the rest of the forum users to decide if its worthwhile, and to be mature (haha) and avoid flaming.

I certainly don't think that removing the rep system would drastically changes things at all. In lieu of these "rep-seeking" posts we would either have:
A) No posts
B) Other boring/useless off-topic or troll posts.

I think if anyone is dissatisfied with the quality of posts, they need to simply spend less time on here. The amount of posts where there is a legitimate opportunity to help people are few and far between, and it seems that people spend all day monitoring the forums driving them to create low-quality posts to keep things moving along.

Just my 2 cents. I'm not really for or against the rep system, I just don't think removing it will change the "problems".

[dudetus]

States the guy with 4 rep tiles (little green bars). Here's an idea:

Let's encourage people to make guides for the right reason, and make it to where guides can't be thanked unless stickied or moved to the guide section. This would cut down on pointless guides, but most likely people will still be making seemingly useless guides, and for good reason. It gives you a feeling of accomplishment to know you made something worth sharing that others can benefit from. If it is stickied or made a true guide, it becomes something you can always be proud of that thousands will see and read. And FYI guides aren't for veterans, they're for new players who are just starting the game that might need some help with the simplest of tasks.

I think you can tell when a guide is real or not.
Real:
Went into good detail, added pictures to show their meaning, added facts about the game that need to be mentioned, and didn't leave a sentence at the bottom say "If this helped you, like it."

Rep-trolls:
Quick crappy guide sloppily put together, no updates to improve it, very minute detail, no real meaning to the guide (like a guide on how to auto attack in pl) and at the end asked for thanks if it helped you.

So I say don't get rid of rep, it drives people to make helpful posts, encourage others, and stop flame wars with reason instead of trolling, which makes the forums an all-around better place to any player new or veteran. Instead if a guide is pointless don't like it, but don't flame it either, if a dev locks it that's the end of it, if not click that red triangle no one ever mentions to report the post as useless, or trollish for rep.

Firstable, I have never asked for reputation and the fact why I have 4 rep bars hasn't been up to me. Honestly I couldn't care less about reputation.

Tell me something. When did u join the forums? Were u lvl 1? Majority of the forum users are already experienced players who come to forums in order to seek further and more advanced information over the gaming itself. But there are already really awesome guides for the basic things (Like Physiologic's Archer guide). All the necessary stuff has already been made and nowadays the guides and lists are either recycled or contain information which are obvious things or are just otherwise obsolete.

Look around the guides section. Most viewed and the most useful guides are made before even GoA or AoA were announced. Not to mention the reputation system. Reputation is not required to encourage people to do guides.

I'll just quote myself:

If ppl r willing to help, they will, even though they were not rewarded.


Reputation system is useless.

[Dartagnian]

I think its fairly useless, serves the same kind if dangly carrot as the gold star stickers in school.

I cant see rep on the mobile app, which i think is nice. I have seen, without looking at anyones stats though, the repeat "forum cops" and "teachers pets" who will invariably take the comfortable side if a, shall we say spirited? discussion. More than most, that type of OTT behavior is annoying.

I think the Teacher's Pet Posters know that, however, and make it a point to play devil's advicate to the hilt and beyond. Not just beating the dead horse, but stomping, kicking, shooting, nuking, and finally looting Type VII Flashguns from said horse.

While spirited discussions will always occurr, so will Teacher's Trolls and Forum Police PaTroll. (badum bum tssssh!)

[Elyseon]

Honestly i really dont see anything right now in the game that is guide worthy. Unless something new suddenly explodes, i see no need for more guides

Thank you for reading!
Thank me for writing!

;D

[Coltona]

I think its fairly useless, serves the same kind if dangly carrot as the gold star stickers in school.


Lol reference to spongebob is evident on this post.

[dudetus]

I dont have a Rep bar high enough like others here to say anything, but what I can say is this.



I have done my homework before "I" say anything. Rep system has its benefits, but instead of crating issues where there is not. let people be people and if you dont like a post move on.

Also *IBFL* :p


I know the forum rules but desperate times require desperate actions. Many renowned forum members are leaving these forums behind because of the negative change of atmosphere, which I personally blame the reputation system by my own personal experience.

I don't mind if this thread is locked or even if I get banned but at least I've tried to actually do something to save these forums.

I've made my point whether u agree with it or not.

[Catric]

People are making useless/unneeded threads only for the motivation of rep. Also, the same people post boost, and ask for thanks.


What is the motivation? Do you really think they want to help people with NO self-benefit?


dang bro, you already made a DL sig already,,,, nice

[Delphina]

I'm closing the thread for the following reason:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/misc.php?do=vsarules


Do not create threads/posts to “petition” or “lobby” for game features, additions, changes, or other issues. You may post suggestions and/or ideas to the boards, but you may not create a ‘petition’ for others to sign. This is bumping in disguise and will not be allowed. Lobbying is continually bringing up the same topic repeatedly in numerous different threads or as an off-topic post in official threads to get developer attention. This form of posting is not permitted.