In response to: Unluckiest player alive or ridiculous drop rate for Flamebrand?

[Blaquehaaart]

The last post from the dev said "Thanks for the feedback and sorry to hear about your run of bad luck

Please drop our support team a line at support@spacetimestudios.com with the details.

Thread closed."

Does this mean we can get refunded if we drop a ton of plat and not get legendaries?

I definitely don't think there should be randomization for items when there is real money involved. Frankly, it's a form of gambling, and plays in to that same impulses.

In any case, if you are refunding people for loses then I would like a refund too.

[Piosidon]

You could always private message them

[Blaquehaaart]

Well, I think this should be discussed in a public forum. If one person get reimbursed for losses than everyone should that's only fair. I spent more money than I wanted to, and I stopped playing the grab boxes realizing that I was starting to impulse spend.

I also don't understand why that thread was closed. I think that's something that needs to be discussed openly if sts has a reimbursement policy for losses on games of chance...considering people are using real money.

[Carth]

This even applies to PL and SL. I don't think kids at the age of 13 should be gambling real money to obtain 'said item. It just doesn't seem right. I have to say that it is the users fault for going crazy with their money, but STS has to take partial blame for supporting gambling. Now for DL, it is an adult game and while I don't like gambling for digital items with real cash, DL makes an exception due to the aimed audience. Gambling in PL and SL is unacceptable in my eyes.

This is just my opinion. I don't hate or have anger towards these options, I just simply don't approve of them.

Also, I saw the main thread before it was locked. Sam did what he was suppose to do. Send the player to support and let the staff there handle it. I don't think the support staff is going to refund the player though. He knew that there was a *chance* of receiving a legendary item.

[xfrzen]

The thread title is correct but your argument sucks, asking for a refund could get you banned, but plat vs igc (in game cash) should have nice weapons too. I already recorded not to give 1 penny to sts but these gambling mechanics justify my logic

Next time argue correctly, and the mod closing the other thread was a shhhhhh tactic its a huge issue and needs to be addresses even with a lvl 21 rare drop that glows like the plat craps....

[Carth]

The thread title is correct but your argument sucks, asking for a refund could get you banned, but plat vs igc (in game cash) should have nice weapons too. I already recorded not to give 1 penny to sts but these gambling mechanics justify my logic

Next time argue correctly, and the mod closing the other thread was a shhhhhh tactic its a huge issue and needs to be addresses even with a lvl 21 rare drop that glows like the plat craps....

Bud, the attitude isn't necessary. You've been extremely negative since your arrival. If you don't like the game, don't play it. If you don't like the company, why bother staying on the forums? I don't understand what your goal is. We try to discuss things in a respectful manner here. This is a discussion that I personally think is important.

I don't want to start an argument and make an enemy. Let's move past this. :)

[Otukura]

asking for a refund could get you banned

how so?

============

wrt to the main topic, I think its more likely they'd just reward them with the item. we've seen refunds before, for purchases made by "mistake", but not for things like this.

[xkoolwillx]

This even applies to PL and SL. I don't think kids at the age of 13 should be gambling real money to obtain 'said item. It just doesn't seem right.
Off topic but why do people assume player crying over something about one of StS games is 13 years old ? O.o
I have played PL since i was 12 and i wasnt ranting about anything... So dont assume someon is 13 or below by the way they act its kind of offensive sometimes .... Not trying to troll here just saying the truth..

[Carth]

Off topic but why do people assume player crying over something about one of StS games is 13 years old ? O.o
I have played PL sincr i was 12 and i wasnt ranting about anything... So dont assume someon is 13 or below by the way they act its kind of offensive sotes .... Not trying to troll here just daying the truth..
I was giving an age that meets the minimum requirements to play any Legend game. Anyone playing below the age of 13 is breaking the ToS. A person below 21 and older than 13 shouldn't be allowed to gamble.

[xkoolwillx]

Off topic but why do people assume player crying over something about one of StS games is 13 years old ? O.o
I have played PL sincr i was 12 and i wasnt ranting about anything... So dont assume someon is 13 or below by the way they act its kind of offensive sotes .... Not trying to troll here just daying the truth..
I was giving an age that meets the minimum requirements to play any Legend game. Anyone playing below the age of 13 is breaking the ToS. A person below 21 and older than 13 shouldn't be allowed to gamble.
Umm did i said i was 12 when i first started playing and i asure u i know ur not suppose gamble if ur below 21 18 in my case but this is not gambling its a mmorpg not real life!!!!!! So yeah i did break ToS back when i wa 12 now 14 btw and yes i know age requirement!!!!!

[xfrzen]

Bud, the attitude isn't necessary. You've been extremely negative since your arrival. If you don't like the game, don't play it. If you don't like the company, why bother staying on the forums? I don't understand what your goal is. We try to discuss things in a respectful manner here. This is a discussion that I personally think is important.

I don't want to start an argument and make an enemy. Let's move past this. :) well tbh I only complain about the negative, and I expressed my concern in as little words as possible, touch screen typing sucks, but I'm not here to argue or make enemies, I complain to make the game better, my posts get noticed and sometimes being sandpaper gets you heard. I only come to the forums with what I don't like, in fact that's the way old school forums were. Now its look at me threads and less game discussion.... 75% of what happens in general discussion belongs in off topic... and I was a littler ticked the mod closed the other thread... but open seems to be trolling I've seen has other thread that was already being discussed here, go figure huh

[Carth]

Umm did i said i was 12 when i first started playing and i asure u i know ur not suppose gamble if ur below 21 18 in my case but this is not gambling its a mmorpg not real life!!!!!! So yeah i did break ToS back when i wa 12 now 14 btw and yes i know age requirement!!!!!

Ok just checked the android market policies:


Gambling: We don’t allow content or services that facilitate online gambling, including but not limited to, online casinos, sports betting and lotteries.

Not sure about state laws. I couldn't find anything definitive.

Using real money to obtain an item you might not get is a risk and considered gambling.

Gambling (Better definition): To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.

[xfrzen]

how so?

============

wrt to the main topic, I think its more likely they'd just reward them with the item. we've seen refunds before, for purchases made by "mistake", but not for things like this. depends on how you go about getting a refund, I could write a book about playing with customer service and getting paid to do it, EA hates me but they can't argue with me, I win and it costs them $ 20 each time

His issue could get him banned depending on how he argues it...
there was no mistake he spent money and gambled it all away, but asking for a refund afterwards is pure ignorance

[xfrzen]

Umm did i said i was 12 when i first started playing and i asure u i know ur not suppose gamble if ur below 21 18 in my case but this is not gambling its a mmorpg not real life!!!!!! So yeah i did break ToS back when i wa 12 now 14 btw and yes i know age requirement!!!!! I gotta learn to multi quote sorry 3x post,but

You spend real money to get xx item, that's gambling... gambling is spending money on a game of chance, don't be playing word games here

[xkoolwillx]

Umm did i said i was 12 when i first started playing and i asure u i know ur not suppose gamble if ur below 21 18 in my case but this is not gambling its a mmorpg not real life!!!!!! So yeah i did break ToS back when i wa 12 now 14 btw and yes i know age requirement!!!!!

Ok just checked the android market policies:


Gambling: We don’t allow content or services that facilitate online gambling, including but not limited to, online casinos, sports betting and lotteries.

Not sure about state laws. I couldn't find anything definitive.

Using real money to obtain an item you might not get is a risk and considered gambling.

Gambling (Better definition): To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.
Im not android lol and i know my vocabulary lol ... So y do u use the phrase 13 ? Thats all i asked not a lesson from someone that might be younger or less experienced than me-.- lol

[Otukura]

depends on how you go about getting a refund, I could write a book about playing with customer service and getting paid to do it, EA hates me but they can't argue with me, I win and it costs them $ 20 each time

His issue could get him banned depending on how he argues it...
there was no mistake he spent money and gambled it all away, but asking for a refund afterwards is pure ignorance

not trying to sound all high and mighty, but knowing sts for what will be approaching 2 years, I cant believe this company would do that. most different(in a good way) customer support ive ever seen. ea uses their cs like a shield, sts just invites you in.

[xkoolwillx]

Umm did i said i was 12 when i first started playing and i asure u i know ur not suppose gamble if ur below 21 18 in my case but this is not gambling its a mmorpg not real life!!!!!! So yeah i did break ToS back when i wa 12 now 14 btw and yes i know age requirement!!!!! I gotta learn to multi quote sorry 3x post,but

You spend real money to get xx item, that's gambling... gambling is spending money on a game of chance, don't be playing word games here
Is it ? Then y do PL let people under 21 gamble money if it is against the law ? Im guessinf cus its not gambling o.O because in real life u gamble for a certain something money jewelery etc etc.... In this game is for game items.nothin like that. So let me ask u this is gambling based in luck ? Yes . Is it set already ? No. This game has coding wich sets drop rates so if u buy enhancer/elixer to get a better chance u will get a better chance!!! This is not gambling its called luck ...

[Carth]

Im not android lol and i know my vocabulary lol ... So y do u use the phrase 13 ? Thats all i asked not a lesson from someone that might be younger or less experienced than me-.- lol
I just explained my reasoning. I used the minimum age requirement that meets the terms to play and is still considered 'a child.' Gambling as a child and young adult, 13 though 20, is wrong. I'm not pointing fingers at 13 year old kids. I'm not pointing fingers at people who complain at all. I'm just saying that 13-20 shouldn't have such a service at their disposal.

@xfrzen I agree with everything you just said, but being respectful and not-so harsh is required since children check these forums too (Including myself, age 16). I'm glad we didn't get into an argument and that we understand each other. :)

[xfrzen]

not trying to sound all high and mighty, but knowing sts for what will be approaching 2 years, I cant believe this company would do that. most different(in a good way) customer support ive ever seen. ea uses their cs like a shield, sts just invites you in. yea ea uses there cs as a meat shield its sad but funny tootoo

[xfrzen]

Is it ? Then y do PL let people under 21 gamble money if it is against the law ? Im guessinf cus its not gambling o.O because in real life u gamble for a certain something money jewelery etc etc.... In this game is for game items.nothin like that. So let me ask u this is gambling based in luck ? Yes . Is it set already ? No. This game has coding wich sets drop rates so if u buy enhancer/elixer to get a better chance u will get a better chance!!! This is not gambling its called luck ... I'll use your own logic against you...
Luck implies there is a chance to win or lose, guess what? That's gambling

[xkoolwillx]

Is it ? Then y do PL let people under 21 gamble money if it is against the law ? Im guessinf cus its not gambling o.O because in real life u gamble for a certain something money jewelery etc etc.... In this game is for game items.nothin like that. So let me ask u this is gambling based in luck ? Yes . Is it set already ? No. This game has coding wich sets drop rates so if u buy enhancer/elixer to get a better chance u will get a better chance!!! This is not gambling its called luck ... I'll use your own logic against you...
Luck implies there is a chance to win or lose, guess what? That's gambling
I know it does but StS has it all crop down to how often an item drops -.-

[xfrzen]

I know it does but StS has it all crop down to how often an item drops -.-
This argument can continue forever, but so do slot machines, I live in WA state too so there are 5 casinos right near me I've used em but percentages still imply its a gamble.... but either way the rates suck...

[Carth]

When we do a level run and don't obtain a legendary item, we didn't get anything out of it but we didn't lose anything either. With these packs, we risk not getting the legendary item and end up losing real money from it as well.

That's gambling.

[KillaSkillz]

So when you buy a pack of sports cards, and they have a chance at a rare card, are you saying that is gambling too? That's a prime example of what we have here. You are guaranteed to get certain items, and there is a chance at getting a super rare legendary.

Sports cards are marketed to children, and as far as I know they are not banned anywhere as gambling.
You may not get what you want, you may get a bunch of what you already have, but you always get something in return.

[Jugernugetx]

Be lucky u had platinum. Again, you'll be sorry u did that 23 time things...

[Rare]

You could always private message them

Or you could not buy them if you're unwilling to take the risk or don't think you can afford it.

Don't be disgruntled. It was your choice to spend.

I bought for and didn't get one. Then i stopped. self control folks.

[Walkhardd]

You have to know before pressing the purchase button that there is a very good chance youre not going to get the item youre hoping for.

The problem I have with these grab box items is that they are currently better than in game drops. If plat items continue to be better than looted items, i won't stick around with this game for long.

The way pocket legends does there plat items is perfect, imo.

[Buster]

If the main thread was locked why did you make another? No sense. With that I request a lock

[Walkhardd]

If the main thread was locked why did you make another? No sense. With that I request a lock

Lol..why do you request a lock? O.o

[Rare]

Lol..why do you request a lock? O.o

Look at his name.

j/k

[Taresafoo]

Word of advice ; don't spend beyond your means.

[Rare]

Word of advice ; don't spend beyond your means.

More words of advice... if you spend frivolously and don't get lucky, don't go complaining about it saying how it is unethical. That screams of desperation and entitlement.

[Deathpunch]

If the main thread was locked why did you make another? No sense. With that I request a lock

The op was not requesting a refund, he was just venting, apparently. I don't think the other thread was locked for the reasons you think. There were posts deleted from the end of the discussion that probably got it locked.

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Sent from my HTC Evo 3D

[Ripper McGee]

When we do a level run and don't obtain a legendary item, we didn't get anything out of it but we didn't lose anything either. With these packs, we risk not getting the legendary item and end up losing real money from it as well.

That's gambling.

It's not gambling. Why? Because you got exactly what you paid for, a pack that contains X number of items. It's a purchase. The items contained in the pack are random and some might be better or more desirable than others, but you still get X number of items for the same price every time.

[Gluttony]

It's not gambling. Why? Because you got exactly what you paid for, a pack that contains X number of items. It's a purchase. The items contained in the pack are random and some might be better or more desirable than others, but you still get X number of items for the same price every time.

Finally someone nails it! It's not gambling due to the fact that you're paying for a product and getting what you paid for; you're not paying for the Firebrand item but rather a pack of items that you can use in your 3D quests. Bringing it back to the sports card analogy, if you buy a pack of cards hoping to win the gold embossed rookie of the year card that is advertized on every foil package, even if you don't win that particular card you still get to keep the cards that you did pay the $2.99 +tax for. No one is going to take that away from you, period. When gambling, you're spending money in hopes of winning that jackpot but you recognize that you could win absolutely nothing.

I don't condone the way that STS is using the best items in the game as a grab bag scenario, but it is good marketing and plenty of other companies do it. I know that I don't like to try my luck at those things, so I'll avoid them at all costs (even if it means not having the best item in the game). If you cannot stop yourself from spending in hopes of getting something that it's promised then perhaps you should avoid purchasing them as well.

How about an official dev response:


If you buy a random pack, you're always rewarded. It may or may not be your favorite item, but the outcome is always positive.
Actual gambling, like at a casino, runs the risk of an absolute negative. There is no guarantee of any positive outcome and the odds are either entirely for you, or against you at either a gain or absolute loss.

Think of it like buying a booster pack of cards from your favorite card game or putting a quarter in a machine that gives you a toy at random. ;) Chance.

[Growwle]

Although my comments in the last thread before it was locked may have been considered negative, there is probably some truth in what I said, regardless if that was the intent or not. On the other hand, in support of STS, the item pack descriptions clearly state that you have a "chance" at getting the legendary item that is pictured. I assume that the terms of platinum sales / purchases require that we are either adults, or minors with parent / guardian consent and that we are capable of understanding what we are purchasing. I was lucky enough to get a legendary in my first bundle, but have not in any bundle since (I have gotten other pinks though). I do wish they were stashable though, since I usually just liquidate my unused items.

[RedRyder]

Wasteful thread is wasteful. Pm would've sufficed.

[Carth]

I feel so stupid. :/

I do remember making these posts, but I don't remember them being this terrible. I wish I would have said something earlier than now but I didn't think that I had said silly and extremely absurd things. It was hard to read over my posts.

I was wrong and I'm okay with being wrong. I should have thought things over instead of rushing through my posts to get my point across so I could get some sleep. It would have been better to have just gotten some sleep and gave my opinion on a rested mind in the morning though. :D

I greatly appreciate receiving feedback proving me wrong instead of being called an idiot, so that's an ease on the embarrassment.

I hope I didn't come off as someone trying to back out of a discussion because he's losing. I just strongly disagree with what I've said. With the packs, we still get our money's worth. It's not like we receive nothing from purchasing them. :)

[csb]

This new gaming model may eventually result in laws to protect consumers. The iPad has a lot of games that cause little kids to pay "free" and then the parents get a surprise bill.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.263700-Eight-Year-Old-Girl-Blows-1400-on-Smurfberries
http://www.azfamily.com/video/yahoo-video/How-to-protect-yourself-from-iPad-scams-hidden-charges--128329453.html

[Deathpunch]

This new gaming model may eventually result in laws to protect consumers. The iPad has a lot of games that cause little kids to pay "free" and then the parents get a surprise bill.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.263700-Eight-Year-Old-Girl-Blows-1400-on-Smurfberries
http://www.azfamily.com/video/yahoo-video/How-to-protect-yourself-from-iPad-scams-hidden-charges--128329453.html

Sure, that what we need. More governmental intrusion into our personal lives. /sarcasm

The majority of these cases could be solved by the parents actually parenting. I can't say for sure about iDevices, I don't own one, but the Android market can be set up to require a password before any paid content can be paid for and downloaded. All it takes is a little effort on the parents part. I know, I know, strange concept in this day and age.

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Sent from my HTC Evo 3D

[Growwle]

This new gaming model may eventually result in laws to protect consumers. The iPad has a lot of games that cause little kids to pay "free" and then the parents get a surprise bill.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.263700-Eight-Year-Old-Girl-Blows-1400-on-Smurfberries
http://www.azfamily.com/video/yahoo-video/How-to-protect-yourself-from-iPad-scams-hidden-charges--128329453.html

I get around this by turning off in-game purchases on my kids' IOS devices and telling them that they have to ask me if they want to purchase anything in-game. I do not give them the password to my iTunes account, so I am the only one who can make these purchases. The parents who got the big bills, just need to be better parents. Also, never link any games to your bank account, or high-limit credit cards, use gift cards, or pre-payed credit cards, then, if there are no funds, the purchases won't go through.

[Noobified]

I think STS should offer two options: 1. The cheaper "chance of getting x" option and 2. The more expensive "sure thing" option.

For example:
1. For 25 platinum, you'll have a chance at getting a Flamebrand.
2. For 150 platinum, you'll can just buy one outright!

C'mon, STS. This isn't a casino. Give people who don't want to waste time and money gambling in DL and let them buy what they want at a premium price while letting those on a limited budget have a crack at it as well. The way it is now, even if a player finally gets the item they want after 20 tries, the possibility of player resentment is there given the excessive money they've spent, hence the original thread that was created. Otherwise, if you want your players to gamble, just create a new game called "Casino Legends".

[Lamchild]

If there were non plat gear that were equivalent or similar in stats and looks, I would not go as far as trying 23 times to get it. Its not hard to understand why I would try to go as far as trying 23 times to get the most powerful and best looking weapon in game. Not sure about future updates, but as of now, all the dropped weapons are crap compared to the Flamebrand. By the way, thanks to STS support on replying promptly but I'm deeply disappointed on the "cut and paste" "tough luck" answer. I've spend of money and time playing all 3 of your games (3 x 66 on PL, 3 x 41 on SL, 2 x 20 on DL both on LB). On PL and SL, you can still be cool and have the best gear in game if u spend time farming. But on DL as of now, you can only achieve that if you have plat and good luck. I'm sad to say that although i'm on LB and have all the best vanity outfits in game, I still wouldn't be satisfied. I'm refusing to buy plats until there is a resolution or may just move on to another game with more "ethical" ways of making money. Many of us may agree or not agree with this is how I see it. I've been playing mmorpg games since Ultima Online (and yes, Lineage II as well) which hints how old I am lol. I manage a well established business in real life and I can afford to buy plats to make the game more enjoyable but that doesn't mean that I don't have to feel good about spending it.

[Slant]

if u dont get
ur gonnna click till you get
there has to be a way around this

[Mohawkski]

I spent 50 bills trying to get the fire brand weapon didnt get it and it does suck maybe what they should do is when they see u made more than 3 purchases they should give u the item that u r tryin to get in the first place....sounds like a win win to me

[Vixenxgirl]

I know wha u r talking about I send about 50 bucks on just trying out the grab box and I got nothing I'm so mad that it was a waste of money even though I really like the game a lot it's awesome but having to lose 50$ on the grab box sucks and I didn't get any legendary weapon and some other people I know get it on there 1st try I think it sucks that we spend so much money on the game and not get anything back in return. I'm guess that since we r the one who r picking the boxes we get the bad luck and then someone else does it after us and they end up getting it on just one try :(

[Deathpunch]

I know wha u r talking about I send about 50 bucks on just trying out the grab box and I got nothing I'm so mad that it was a waste of money even though I really like the game a lot it's awesome but having to lose 50$ on the grab box sucks and I didn't get any legendary weapon and some other people I know get it on there 1st try I think it sucks that we spend so much money on the game and not get anything back in return. I'm guess that since we r the one who r picking the boxes we get the bad luck and then someone else does it after us and they end up getting it on just one try :(

Other than the fact that you don't have to buy the boxes and you did get something in return, just not what you wanted, your argument is valid.

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Sent from my HTC Evo 3D

[Rare]

For example:
1. For 25 platinum, you'll have a chance at getting a Flamebrand.
2. For 150 platinum, you'll can just buy one outright!



Great idea

[Conradin]

That's like saying you have to be 21 to buy baseball cards, ya don't know if you'll just get crap or good stuff. How about make the "you might not get this item" larger on the screen.

[Dragonrider023]

The last post from the dev said "Thanks for the feedback and sorry to hear about your run of bad luck

Please drop our support team a line at support@spacetimestudios.com with the details.

Thread closed."

Does this mean we can get refunded if we drop a ton of plat and not get legendaries?

I definitely don't think there should be randomization for items when there is real money involved. Frankly, it's a form of gambling, and plays in to that same impulses.

In any case, if you are refunding people for loses then I would like a refund too.

That reminded me of a person who got fire weapon at first try

[Blaquehaaart]

That's like saying you have to be 21 to buy baseball cards, ya don't know if you'll just get crap or good stuff. How about make the "you might not get this item" larger on the screen.

It's not like buying baseball cards. "Good stuff" in the context of trading cards is purely based on subjective worth. This would be the case if the grab box consisted of vanity items. However, the gems and weapons you receive give you an intended and quantitatively measured advantage over the game mechanics.

Playing the grab boxes is the only way to achieve these weapons, there is no alternitive. In most cases people specifical play for the chance to win the legendary item. It very much is all or nothing stakes...and it is a gamble.

How many people actually coutinue to play the grab boxes after they get the legendary item? I'd dare to guess the number is vastly smaller for those that do as compared to those that don't.

[Rare]

It's not like buying baseball cards. "Good stuff" in the context of trading cards is purely based on subjective worth. This would be the case if the grab box consisted of vanity items. However, the gems and weapons you receive give you an intended and quantitatively measured advantage over the game mechanics.

Playing the grab boxes is the only way to achieve these weapons, there is no alternitive. In most cases people specifical play for the chance to win the legendary item. It very much is all or nothing stakes...and it is a gamble.

How many people actually coutinue to play the grab boxes after they get the legendary item? I'd dare to guess the number is vastly smaller for those that do as compared to those that don't.

In the end its all based on "subjective" worth. Period. Is it worth enough for you to spend real life money on an arrangement of pixels with arbitrary digital numbers associated with them? In reality, the baseball card has more quantitative worth than the firebrand does.

Trust me, you can make due without it. I have and many others. Its a luxury you're "gambling" on.

[Blaquehaaart]

In the end its all based on "subjective" worth. Period. Is it worth enough for you to spend real life money on an arrangement of pixels with arbitrary digital numbers associated with them? In reality, the baseball card has more quantitative worth than the firebrand does.

Trust me, you can make due without it. I have and many others. Its a luxury you're "gambling" on.

Legendary weapons are not based on subjective worth. They are backed by quantive stats that cannot be rivaled by any weapon that's farmed, and it directly effects the game mechanic and gives you a measurable advantage.

It wouldn't be a problem if the grab boxes consisted of vanity item, because it would be a subjective argumet.

The only thing subjective about the legendary weapons is how they look. Never-the-less, if flamebrand was an animation of a fish, instead of two flaming swords, it would still be the best weapon in the game because it stats reflect it.

[Rare]

Legendary weapons are not based on subjective worth. They are backed by quantive stats that cannot be rivaled by any weapon that's farmed, and it directly effects the game mechanic and gives you a measurable advantage.

It wouldn't be a problem if the grab boxes consisted of vanity item, because it would be a subjective argumet.

The only thing subjective about the legendary weapons is how they look. Never-the-less, if flamebrand was an animation of a fish, instead of two flaming swords, it would still be the best weapon in the game because it stats reflect it.

Fact is, its still a game. No matter how real you think it is, it is far more subjective than any tangible thing.

You can make the argument all day long. But what it boils down to is that you are spending money on a game with no real tangible benefit. It is not a necessity to own a firebrand to play or be good at this game. If you feel it is, I'm sorry for that. But that is your subjectivity.

Every single thing in this game is based on subjective "worth". The mere fact that it is worth so much more to you than me shows how "subjective" it is.

Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk

[Blaquehaaart]

Fact is, its still a game. No matter how real you think it is, it is far more subjective than any tangible thing.

You can make the argument all day long. But what it boils down to is that you are spending money on a game with no real tangible benefit. It is not a necessity to own a firebrand to play or be good at this game. If you feel it is, I'm sorry for that. But that is your subjectivity.

Every single thing in this game is based on subjective "worth". The mere fact that it is worth so much more to you than me shows how "subjective" it is.

Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk

Ummm...a weapon that does 50 damage will hit harder than a weapon that does 45 damage. There is nothing subjective about that it is based on a quantifiable measurement.

Subject worth is qualitative. It's like saying a red shirt is better than a blue shirt, it is a quality based on form.

The weapons in the game are functionally driven by base stats, there is absolutely nothing qualitive about how it operates.

Part of my argument is that weapons that can only be purchased with platinum exceed the base stats of weapons farmed in game. Based on the inavalibility of not being to aquire weapons of equal stats through in game play the only option to aquire these weapon is though a randomized game, and because there is no alternative, it forces a player to play a randomized game in order to obtain that weapon. However, because there is no alternative, for some, it becomes a game of all or nothing stakes, which very much constitutes a real life gamble, for real life money.

The grab boxes in this game is not the same as buying a pack of trading cards. The value of trading cards boil down to subjective worth. Yes, some people play for the firebrand because it's cool and they want it as a vanity item. However, based on the base stats of the item, the lack of an alternative, and the method to achieve the item is very much a gamble...and if it's a gamble for some, the game very much is a form of gamble.

A gamble is a game of stakes to acquire an advantage.

The stakes is platinum, which is bought with real money. The advantage is the legendary item. What makes the stakes higher is that there is no other way to obtain it, so it's actually even worse because it is a forced gamble.

[Odemus]

I understand the business mode dictates that the small percentage of players who do pay real money will have to spend exponentially more than a retail subscription mmo to make up for the vast majority of players who pay nothing but I have to agree that spending close to $100 to get a firebrand or pestilence weapon at lvl 21 or earlier seems a bit outrageous. I was lucky to get mine for $40 but I know a couple people in my guild who have paid more without any luck. I happily spent close to $300 on SL but at least I always knew what I was getting. Here, not only is it a huge gamble, but your gear will be obsolete once they raise the level cap and you'll be crossing your fingers all over again. I'm not complaining but that is my opinion.

[Rare]

...but your gear will be obsolete once they raise the level cap and you'll be crossing your fingers all over again.

This is the whole reason I think this it is absurd to spend any great amount of money on it. If it were vanity... sure.

[Takezaki]

Hi, my name is Takezaki and I got both my legendary weapons on the first package I bought.