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View Full Version : Team stacking and switching teams



Ripper McGee
04-24-2012, 02:24 PM
These points have been discussed in a number of general PvP posts, but I thought they deserved their own thread:

1) The number of players required to start a match - simply put, the system is borked. The minimum required number of players on each team must be three, but the counter doesn't reset when a player drops out. This can lead to severely stacked matches (I was in a 5 vs 1 earlier). I would address this first by resetting the counter when a player leaves and secondly, by not allowing a player to join a team when there's already 1-player extra on the team.

2) Switching teams - one should not be able to switch teams. I did it earlier today, because I was the first player on my team and 4 others joined me against the sole player on the other team. Due to the faulty counting, it ended up being a 5 vs. 1 match, so I switched teams to help out. I shouldn't have to do that and I shouldn't be able to switch teams mid-match anyway! Furthermore, this leads to the possibility of being able to actually have a single-player match, which would be exploitable for raising CTF captures!

Buster
04-24-2012, 02:26 PM
Well 1v1 if cnt b 2v1 were would we join?

Ripper McGee
04-24-2012, 02:32 PM
Well 1v1 if cnt b 2v1 were would we join?

"not allowing a player to join a team when there's already 1-player extra on the team"

If there's a 1v1 match, then there's not already 1 player extra on any team. As such, you could join either team. If, however, there was a 2v1 match, you could only join the team with 1 player in order to balance the teams.

Late
04-24-2012, 02:35 PM
Well some people leav during combat so when it's under 3 everyone should be sent back to the starting point and wait for at least 3 players on each side

Ripper McGee
04-24-2012, 03:08 PM
Well some people leav during combat so when it's under 3 everyone should be sent back to the starting point and wait for at least 3 players on each side

That only penalizes players who are already playing. I'd rather see penalties against drop-outs in order to give them incentive to stay.

Range
04-25-2012, 12:10 AM
They should let the match start when there is 1 player on each side plain and simple. If u don't like the odds then leave. Just my opinion

Samhayne
04-25-2012, 08:45 AM
Great feedback and suggestions. Thanks Ripper!

Otukura
04-25-2012, 10:23 AM
I actually really think the ability to rejoin to swap teams needs to stay. A friend and I generally will always go to the losing side, if they should end up leaving, in effort to keep things balanced.

Ripper McGee
04-25-2012, 11:25 AM
I actually really think the ability to rejoin to swap teams needs to stay. A friend and I generally will always go to the losing side, if they should end up leaving, in effort to keep things balanced.

I can definitely see that scenario, but do you think the counters should be reset upon switching sides? Also, if a good system is put in place to deter drop-outs (they can't be prevented, ever, but they can be deterred), would this matter?

Growwle
04-25-2012, 12:10 PM
I played a CTF game yesterday, where there were already three players on one side, so I joined the other. Three more players joined the red team and would not switch over to get the game started, so we sat and waited for 10 minutes. There should be a system that autoassigns teams, but allows you to queue as a group if you want, similar to other MMO systems.

Ripper McGee
04-25-2012, 01:36 PM
I played a CTF game yesterday, where there were already three players on one side, so I joined the other. Three more players joined the red team and would not switch over to get the game started, so we sat and waited for 10 minutes. There should be a system that autoassigns teams, but allows you to queue as a group if you want, similar to other MMO systems.

Yeah, that's really frustrating. I stated in chat "you know we could have started if you had just picked <insert color>", not that it's every made any impression. Some players only want to play with friends. As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather play--either with or against friends--as long as I can actually play, not sit around waiting...

Hullukko
04-27-2012, 07:20 AM
2) Switching teams - one should not be able to switch teams. I did it earlier today, because I was the first player on my team and 4 others joined me against the sole player on the other team. Due to the faulty counting, it ended up being a 5 vs. 1 match, so I switched teams to help out. I shouldn't have to do that and I shouldn't be able to switch teams mid-match anyway! Furthermore, this leads to the possibility of being able to actually have a single-player match, which would be exploitable for raising CTF captures!

I disagree. One should most certainly be allowed to switch teams. That's about the only way to balance uneven teams for crying out loud.
If you want to restrict it then restrict it so that only jumps to teams with fewer players be allowed. Your point about you not needing to do it in the first place is a faulty premise, because in online games people come people go, no matter the incentives. After that you got two options start over or even the teams. In most circumstances the latter is the path of least resistance. And this currently is indeed a problem in many fights. In many cases I would be more than happy to even the teams, but I am unable to do so, because leaving and joining through the sanctuary seems to fail more often than succeed.

(perhaps it gets easier when most active CTF players get friended and rejoining their fights is thus possible, which is essentially a switch)

But I do agree with the parallel point you made about not letting people join teams with extra players already in said teams.

Nassar
04-28-2012, 08:21 PM
I switch teams to even things up when the numbers are out of whack.
Plus, if it happens mid-match, that just means more kills and goals for me. >;-)

Otukura
04-28-2012, 08:31 PM
I switch teams to even things up when the numbers are out of whack.
Plus, if it happens mid-match, that just means more kills and goals for me. >;-)

Assuming you're Nassar in game, if its 3v1, why join the 3 and make it a 4?

Nassar
04-28-2012, 09:00 PM
Assuming you're Nassar in game, if its 3v1, why join the 3 and make it a 4?

I don't think you read what I wrote.
Other way around.
If it's 5v3, I make it 4v4. 4v2 -> 3v3, 3v1 -> 2v2

If the numbers can't be helped, I favor red team.

Otukura
04-28-2012, 09:01 PM
I don't think you read what I wrote.
Other way around.
If it's 5v3, I make it 4v4. 4v2 -> 3v3, 3v1 -> 2v2

If the numbers can't be helped, I favor red team.

I know what you wrote. And it's not what you did in game. It was 3v1, and you joined the team with 3 making it 4.

Blaquehaaart
04-28-2012, 09:13 PM
Why not just make a 45 minute re-entry cool down for people that prematurely drop a match. That shouldn't effect the people that need to leave for legitimate reasons, and it would also discourage players from dropping game, to queue for another one instead.

As for the having uneven teams, add a life or damage buff for the team will less people that correlates to difference in people on the opposing team. Example if it's 2v5 (one team up by 3) than the people that are on the team short of players get an additional 300 health (100 health per additional person on the opposing team), or give them +30 damage (10 damage per additional person on the opposing team). Hell, I would want to play outnumbered just to have the buff. Also, you could maybe lower to queue number to 2, thus speeding up the wait time for matches.

Maybe you can make that buff only apply when you get hold of the cube...dunno, just another idea to throw in there. I think that would be fun. Being in a match that's 1v5 would be kinda cool, you have 400 extra health or 40 extra damage to slaughter people with. However, I don't think it would be so overpowered against a coordinated team, but strong enough to take on team that are not working well together.

I think those solutions in tandem would work pretty well, and give a new and fun dimension to the game.

Otukura
04-28-2012, 09:16 PM
As for the having uneven teams, add a life or damage buff for the team will less people that correlates to difference in people on the opposing team. Example if it's 2v5 (one team up by 3) than the people that are on the team short of players get an additional 300 health (100 health per additional person on the opposing team), or give them +30 damage (10 damage per additional person on the opposing team). Hell, I would want to play outnumbered just to have the buff. Also, you could maybe lower to queue number to 2, thus speeding up the wait time for matches.

Maybe you can make that buff only apply when you get hold of the cube...dunno, just another idea to throw in there. I think that would be fun. Being in a match that's 1v5 would be kinda cool, you have 400 extra health or 40 extra damage to slaughter people with. However, I don't think it would be so overpowered against a coordinated team, but strong enough to take on team that are not working well together.

I think those solutions in tandem would work pretty well, and give a new and fun dimension to the game.

I really like this suggestion.

Nassar
04-28-2012, 09:32 PM
I know what you wrote. And it's not what you did in game. It was 3v1, and you joined the team with 3 making it 4.

I can't recall though I know I was guilty of this a couple of times when I first started playing.
umad?

Otukura
04-28-2012, 09:36 PM
I can't recall though I know I was guilty of this a couple of times when I first started playing.
umad?

i nerd rage @ anything hypocritical :3

Nassar
04-28-2012, 09:39 PM
i nerd rage @ anything hypocritical :3

There's a difference between being a hypocrite and recognizing a behavior of yours is incorrect and changing it.

Blaquehaaart
04-29-2012, 01:17 PM
One really major problem in forcing sides based on numbers is that it discourages organized team play.

There would be no real way to queue a team match to play along side your friends.

This would force pug play, which would never allow pvp to progress into anything advanced.

I definitely think a handicaping solution based on disporportioned team would be a better method for getting around this problem.

Nassar
04-29-2012, 01:44 PM
Pug play?

Blaquehaaart
04-29-2012, 04:27 PM
It's an MMO abbreviation for pick-up-group. Basically you are just teaming with who ever is playing for that given game.

Serious pvp is all about pre made groups, and coordinated teams. A good group of coordinated player will dominate a pug, even if that pug has good players...unless of course those guys are all good at team play...but if that's the case they probably played at a high level of coordinated team play any way.

Ripper McGee
04-30-2012, 12:36 AM
I really like the idea of handicapping the team with more players as an alternative and/or addition to penalizing players that drop out.

Otukura
04-30-2012, 12:45 AM
There's a difference between being a hypocrite and recognizing a behavior of yours is incorrect and changing it.

You're right, this was my bad.


I really like the idea of handicapping the team with more players as an alternative and/or addition to penalizing players that drop out.

WRT penalizing players that drop out -- I feel it would only encourage players to afk inside a match. Maybe make them get auto booted after being afk for 2(?) minutes, or have respawn forced after 15(?) seconds. The death-they'll-get penalty could be a discouraging factor too.

Aylilth
05-01-2012, 09:09 PM
I dunno I go in for a bit of fun but tell ya what it pisses me off to no end to be the last one on the team and it's 5v1. What is even more annoying seeing ppl leave the team I'm on then comeback and join the other team b/c they are winning.....

WTF is the point to playing that sorta bull......

Blaquehaaart
05-01-2012, 09:39 PM
I dunno I go in for a bit of fun but tell ya what it pisses me off to no end to be the last one on the team and it's 5v1. What is even more annoying seeing ppl leave the team I'm on then comeback and join the other team b/c they are winning.....

WTF is the point to playing that sorta bull......
That's why there should be a cool down for pre-maturely dropping a match.

Aylilth
05-02-2012, 06:20 AM
That's why there should be a cool down for pre-maturely dropping a match.

Sounds good but till then I'm not about to ruin my stats b/c of idiots lol

Shaocalur
05-02-2012, 09:05 PM
Today I played against someone who kept switching to the team with more players. He left the blue team then joined my team, saw more people on blue left and rejoined them. When we grouped up and killed him he had the nerve to call us noobs because we couldn't 1v1 him.

Word to the wise: Stay on your team kids.

Lady_Pebbles
05-03-2012, 04:58 PM
It's an MMO abbreviation for pick-up-group. Basically you are just teaming with who ever is playing for that given game.

Serious pvp is all about pre made groups, and coordinated teams. A good group of coordinated player will dominate a pug, even if that pug has good players...unless of course those guys are all good at team play...but if that's the case they probably played at a high level of coordinated team play any way.
I agree with you & this is exactly why I believe they should allow us to have the option of creating our own rooms to have a chance to play with the people we really want to play with. Or perhaps have the first player on each side be a "team captain" & have the options to invite whoever they want on their side only.... Hell maybe even have both! I'd also love these to be options with Guold vs Guild PvP if they ever implement it. (hint hint devs lol made a thread on that xD)

Point is, most players don't want to get stuck in a really bad PUG or be on a team against our friends (let alone guild mates) so we switch sides the first chance we get. I especially drop games or switch sides when I see players farming others for kills in CtF. Ignoring the flag captures entirely. Which is why I hope they limit the amount of kills a player can get per match in CtF & if no one has made any goals, then the game automatically resets. With DM out, there is no need for this to go on in CtF.