Idea to Nerf Rushing...

[Chickdigcookies]

Well lets start off with the fact that i hate rushing. Ive done it, but i dont encourage it, or prefer it...Ive told people off/booted people from my groups who start to rush...

So the idea revolves around clearing the map. Maybe not 100% but something like 75%. In multiple bosses scenarios, making it by stages, 30% closets boss, 50% 2nd boss, 75% third and what ever more there is. Extra Pinks dropped from trash mobs and only trash mobs would also make us clear more.

ALSO, i was talking to some guy named Ninjacows, and im giving him full credit for this idea. He said that the drop rate/chance of pinks should increase when full map is cleared. That would encourage people to do a full clear and not the minimum...

EDIT: So i was in the shower, lol, and i got another idea.

So for people who are "geared for end game", there could be a timer, say 6 Minutes. The timer would be for an EXTRA Boss, Harder, Stronger, Kinda like the ones in Swamps. You would have to clear the Map, INCLUDING bosses under the set time. Clearing under the time would spwn the Extra Boss. He, of course, would have BIND ON PICK-UP (BoP) items only...

So, yeah...comments and ideas are more then welcome.

[Royce]

Good stuff. Similar suggestions have popped up before. I'm in favor of a solution that doesn't completely rule out farming, but still encourages completing maps.

[Chickdigcookies]

Good stuff. Similar suggestions have popped up before. I'm in favor of a solution that doesn't completely rule out farming, but still encourages completing maps.

Yeah, the whole idea of rushing has pretty much destroyed the notion of PvE...It gets me mad when people ask me why im not rushing.

[FluffNStuff]

Well lets start off with the fact that i hate rushing. Ive done it, but i dont encourage it, or prefer it...Ive told people off/booted people from my groups who start to rush...

So the idea revolves around clearing the map. Maybe not 100% but something like 75%. In multiple bosses scenarios, making it by stages, 30% closets boss, 50% 2nd boss, 75% third and what ever more there is. Extra Pinks dropped from trash mobs and only trash mobs would also make us clear more.

ALSO, i was talking to some guy named Ninjacows, and im giving him full credit for this idea. He said that the drop rate/chance of pinks should increase when full map is cleared. That would encourage people to do a full clear and not the minimum...

EDIT: So i was in the shower, lol, and i got another idea.

So for people who are "geared for end game", there could be a timer, say 6 Minutes. The timer would be for an EXTRA Boss, Harder, Stronger, Kinda like the ones in Swamps. You would have to clear the Map, INCLUDING bosses under the set time. Clearing under the time would spwn the Extra Boss. He, of course, would have BIND ON PICK-UP (BoP) items only...

So, yeah...comments and ideas are more then welcome.

So that pic you posted where two blasters dropped from Ryylox. We didn't rush that game, and look what happened ...

[Chickdigcookies]

lol i have a new one...2 isis scarab.

[Furrawn]

Well lets start off with the fact that i hate rushing. Ive done it, but i dont encourage it, or prefer it...Ive told people off/booted people from my groups who start to rush...

So the idea revolves around clearing the map. Maybe not 100% but something like 75%. In multiple bosses scenarios, making it by stages, 30% closets boss, 50% 2nd boss, 75% third and what ever more there is. Extra Pinks dropped from trash mobs and only trash mobs would also make us clear more.

ALSO, i was talking to some guy named Ninjacows, and im giving him full credit for this idea. He said that the drop rate/chance of pinks should increase when full map is cleared. That would encourage people to do a full clear and not the minimum...

EDIT: So i was in the shower, lol, and i got another idea.

So for people who are "geared for end game", there could be a timer, say 6 Minutes. The timer would be for an EXTRA Boss, Harder, Stronger, Kinda like the ones in Swamps. You would have to clear the Map, INCLUDING bosses under the set time. Clearing under the time would spwn the Extra Boss. He, of course, would have BIND ON PICK-UP (BoP) items only...

So, yeah...comments and ideas are more then welcome.

Cookies~

I love all three ideas-
1) pink drops from trash mobs. Rare but enough to get people to try for them.
2) better %pink drop or rarer pink drop from bosses if trash mobs killed
3) extra boss if map cleared quickly (though It should be attainable time w great teamwork- not impossible time.

I also prefer to play through. It's often met with cries of "What? why? Horrors! Are you a fruitcakenutbatwhackjob? Just rush!"

I'd love it if there were incentives that got people to want to actually play through.
Great ideas!

[Kalielle]

Well I'm going to step up and defend rushing, since it's one of the things I really enjoy doing in this game. :) I don't do it to become rich (in fact of the only three rares I got from it, two I'm using and one I gave away to a good friend). And I also don't just do it for the pinks, although of course they are very welcome when they drop.

I really just like rushing for the fun of it, just as much as I enjoy leveling some of my characters slowly, or playing through swamps with my lev 35. It certainly got my adrenaline pumping the first time I did it (ok, maybe more like the first 20 or 30 times, I'll admit :D ) and even now it can get intense at times. There's a lot more pressure not to die than in regular games, because there are usually no mages to res, and a single player's death puts everyone at risk a lot more than in games where you clear. And it does require strategy, especially in the boss room at the end where you might have 5 or so djins hammering on your party while you try to pin the main boss against a wall so you can get at him, and get the djins behind you so that when you stomp you send them flying but not the main boss. I've rushed with various groups and believe me, you can tell a group of excellent players who work together, from one where everyone just randomly pushes the boss around or gets him stuck in the middle of all the djins every time.

A couple of days ago I was with a group that rushed the swamps boss level. That was one of the most intense, strategic and just plain FUN things I have done in this game, ever. :D

So that's why I like rushing. Now, that doesn't mean that anyone else has to like it. I don't blame people who play through or tell them that they should rush. But in the same vein, I wish people who don't like rushing wouldn't ask that it be nerfed just because they hate it.

Now all that being said, I too wouldn't mind seeing some incentives for people to clear the map - in addition, not instead of, the rewards one can get from rushing. One issue with rushing is that a lot of bears (and perhaps pallys too) these days don't play games where the map is cleared - because they're out rushing with other bears. Now I don't blame them, since I am one of them. :D But I think it can sometimes make it hard for groups who clear to get a tank, and that's a problem; I see so many high level players these days who have no idea how to work with a tank and just run ahead and attack whatever whenever, and then get killed... and the lack of tanks in so many games is not helping them learn to play any better.

As for what the incentives for clearing should be, I'm personally not in favor of bind-on-pickup items. You want to attract the people who now rush to get items for sale, and those items wouldn't do it. (Also, I'm just not a fan of the bind-on-pickup idea in general. One of the things that makes me really happy in this game is to get a rare item that I know a friend would want more than me, and surprise them with it. :) Why shouldn't we be able to share stuff like that?)

[bmc85uk]

Some good ideas, but I think clearing trash for increased loot chances or boss spawns is forcing players to grind in the tedious and unchallenging part of the game. Clearing trash mobs is currently only good for xp, gold and trash loot to liquidate, you don't need to do it as a means for survival like other MMOs.

There's no other game that has such an issue with PvE, there are methods that already exist to minimise problems.

For me the solution is all about:-

1) Putting all dungeons on a respawn mechanic.
2) Removing the stun effect on enemy auto attack & increasing enemy run-speed.
3) Fixing the hit & dodge in PvE.
4) Increasing leash range.

When added together, you could still train to the boss with a skilled enough team, but the point; as with most MMOs, would be to clear the trash and cycle/camp boss spawns. Enemies in PvE should be a satisfying challenge, and potentially dangerous to run from if the train becomes too big.

[Furrawn]

Kali-

I don't think any of the proposed changes would change current farming at all.
I think drop percentages on bosses would be what they are now unless people cleared the map and perhaps got slightly better chances for a rare drop or an extra boss spawn. Rare mob drop pinks would be fair. If people wanted to skip them, they could. People who enjoy rush farming can continue to do it. I did rush farming some in the swamps as a lvl 30-35... I enjoyed it... It's just not my preference at the moment.

I think it's more rewarding to clear the map. I certainly value the pinks more because it took time to get them. I think it's rarely a case of people not being good enough to rush. Some of us just don't prefer it. Though I admit that when anyone clamors over & over "Rush Rush," I just say I die. It makes them leave me alone immediately. I'd rather be thought weak than harassed.

And that I think is what all these posts are about... It's virtually impossible to host an open game & not have someone pushing everyone to rush. It's sad. Especially when there are level 42's etc who are trying to level the right way...So if there are a few adjustments, then rush farmers and killall players will be happy:)

Bmc-
I wish clearing the mobs was a matter of survival:) The swamps for a lvl 30 are like that:)

[Kalielle]

I think drop percentages on bosses would be what they are now unless people cleared the map and perhaps got slightly better chances for a rare drop or an extra boss spawn. Rare mob drop pinks would be fair. If people wanted to skip them, they could.

Agreed. :) I think those are some very good ideas and you can count me in favor.

And yes, I totally know what you mean about valuing an item more because you got it the "right" way. Incidentally, I happened to get a Vodoo firestaff drop for my lev 35 mage after we cleared one of the swamp levels yesterday (Royce was there and can attest :D)) - and it was an extra bonus to know I got it the old-fashioned way. And that after hearing the bears complain the night before about how farming swamps never yields anything. :D Also, just now a fellow lev 45 and I were helping some lower levs clear map four, and he got the shock lance. After that I went and did several bear rushes and there was nothing. So just thinking, who knows what might influence drop rates already... :D

[Furrawn]

Kali~

Gratz on the voodoo firestaff!!! That's a fabulous drop. I have never had a pink voodoo firestaff drop for me! Aren't the swamps grand?

You know, now that you mention it, the few times I rushed in AO2, the drops were either bad or were pinks I'd never use as gear...

[Kalielle]

Gratz on the voodoo firestaff!!! That's a fabulous drop. I have never had a pink voodoo firestaff drop for me!

Gosh, I feel even luckier now! :D I have to admit I'm one of those people who barely even knew the swamps existed before I reached 45 (I didn't level fast, but AOS1 came out when I was maybe 20ish and everyone went straight to play that). I've only really gotten into playing the swamps these past few days. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the pink writing at the top of my screen! Now I want to never level up so I can keep using the staff. Oh, and I'm so glad I didn't yet respec as pally as I was planning to!!

[Smartress]

What's wrong with rushing? I think it's player's choice, with drop rate this low, until they fix the PvP and pure class issue, "farming" is the only thing to do when you reach the top level.

[Bentmer]

As a someone in his early 20's, my problem is with the 45's that join your game and rush by to kill the bosses and then promptly leave. It is not cool when you are plugging away with your group only to discover the boss is dead and you can't complete the quest when you finally get to the end. If you want to rush, do it on a closed game so you don't screw other people in the process.

Up until Fathom Crypts, I never experienced it before. Since then though, it is so common that it has sapped some of the fun of this game for me.

[Royce]

As a someone in his early 20's, my problem is with the 45's that join your game and rush by to kill the bosses then promptly leave. It is not cool when you are plugging away with your group only to discover the boss is dead and you can't complete the quest when you finally get to the end. If you want to rush, do it on a closed game so you don't screw other people in the process.

This is most likely because of the new quest system. It used to be the only problem with 45s joining lower games was that some players didn't like having everything killed so fast they barely got a chance to help. I agree that sucks to find you have completed a level only to find you have to restart. I The problem is partially due to the fact that with people joining games from the quests menu or through the portal, they just get thrown into a game, so there is less sense of choosing a group, and with quests ending mid map, often the creator of the game isn't even present for long, so it's sort of anarchy. 45s want to just get there quests done, and with the "go to" quest option there is no way to choose or host a game. I don't know maybe the problem will solve itself when there are few high level players who still need to do quests.

[Bentmer]

This is most likely because of the new quest system. It used to be the only problem with 45s joining lower games was that some players didn't like having everything killed so fast they barely got a chance to help. I agree that sucks to find you have completed a level only to find you have to restart. I The problem is partially due to the fact that with people joining games from the quests menu or through the portal, they just get thrown into a game, so there is less sense of choosing a group, and with quests ending mid map, often the creator of the game isn't even present for long, so it's sort of anarchy. 45s want to just get there quests done, and with the "go to" quest option there is no way to choose or host a game. I don't know maybe the problem will solve itself when there are few high level players who still need to do quests.

You may be right about some, but it's the same handful of people doing it. You only have to kill the bosses twice for quests and these 45's have been rushing the last two days in FC. Now if I see them, I have no choice but to run with them to the end or lose out on the kill and loot. Then after training all those mobs, the 45 will leave the level leaving me alone with all the trash mobs. So my choice is to follow and die but get loot or not follow and not get the kill. Again, if they want to farm bosses, that is fine with me. But when they join a game already underway and just run past a group that is already fighting to kill their end bosses, that just sucks. At best it's rude, at worst it's a form of kill stealing.

[Buddyf97]

Rushing makes farming a whole lot easier. Think of what would happen without rushing...
Fewer rare items causes prices to go up. If prices go up you probably will not have top notch gear. If you don't have top notch gear it causes it to be harder to finish the whole level. I think this is a bad idea and will cause pocket legends to become a much harder game, that might even cause it to loose players. I like a fun slightly challenging game. Nothing crazy but this might put it over crazy.

[Royce]

Rushing makes farming a whole lot easier. Think of what would happen without rushing...
Fewer rare items causes prices to go up. If prices go up you probably will not have top notch gear. If you don't have top notch gear it causes it to be harder to finish the whole level. I think this is a bad idea and will cause pocket legends to become a much harder game, that might even cause it to loose players. I like a fun slightly challenging game. Nothing crazy but this might put it over crazy.

Farming has been going on since long before the rush became a predominant tactic (which didn't happen til AO2). As I said I'm in favor of a solution that allows for farming, but also provides incentives to clear the maps. What's the point of getting outfitted in the best gear if no one is doing any thing but rush farming more gear? I don't think there's anything wrong with nerfing the rush, it really shouldn't be so easy to run through an entire map anyway, that's just silly when you think about it. Still I think what we need is a map like Boss Brawl for every campaign that would drop the most common pinks (still leaving blasters, plasmas, etc. to be uber rare, but there not really more to show off then they are top gear).

[jonboy]

most times I feel compelled to rush, as that is either what the group ive been invited to is doing, I personally find that when I get a invite to a group and its a full run, that I relax more and the fun factor goes up. But sometimes I'm in the mood for the rush, I generally go with the flow of the group, but if i'm hosting my own game it would be a full clear.

[PvP]

These are good suggestions, but I reccomend they be planned in the upcoming "Hardcore" mode...Some people call it the "nightmare" mode..Just a harder mode with more rewards. After all, more people will probably be attracted to that then the normal mode.