How rare is too rare? What do you think about crazy rare stuff?

[Samhayne]

Hey gang,

We've been reading feedback about the recently added Dragon Vanity Armor and wanted to gauge your feedback of just how rare do you think something like that should be? Should everyone be able to get it, with enough farming? How do you feel about walking into town and hardly ever seeing anyone wearing a rare piece like the Dragon Vanities?

Can you give us an example of something that feels "right" to your concept of how the game should work?

Thanks, as always, for your feedback!

[Lowlyspy]

I would say something is too rare when you go to 12 townes and MAYBE see 1 piece of a set (dragon drops). Imo a good rarity would be going into your average full towne and seeing like 3-5 pieces. If you get what i'm saying.

[Elegants]

In my opinion ,make the helm more challenging to farm while the armour vanity easier to farm :B.

[octavos]

Hey gang,

We've been reading feedback about the recently added Dragon Vanity Armor and wanted to gauge your feedback of just how rare do you think something like that should be? Should everyone be able to get it, with enough farming? How do you feel about walking into town and hardly ever seeing anyone wearing a rare piece like the Dragon Vanities?

Can you give us an example of something that feels "right" to your concept of how the game should work?

Thanks, as always, for your feedback!

I have been playing PL since June of 2011 and I have never amassed enough money to the pros of PL millions and millions (I just recently won a contest to the gratitude of Fluffandstuff thz :D). It will always be out of my price range considering I play all 3 STS games and have not focused on one in particular.

IMO: is the following...
Being the casual player of PL i would like my items to be in Plat store with NO additional stats. But vanity's so I can look different at anytime time. even with low level toons that I have. Now the best in the game ALWAYS has to be earned these vanity's are an example, once earned people can understand that that was not easy to come by. Appreciation is never bought but always earned.
:ghost:

[Shree]

Since the announcement of the new Dragon Armor vanities, I have ran two toons from levels 58 up to 66 and have yet to see the new Dragon vanity drop for ANYONE in our party. The sets provide a good bonus, but if there is never a chance of even obtaining one piece, much less the entire set it can be a bit discouraging. I have only seen one person in the game with a red set. Everyone else I have seen is wearing the plat version of the set--and no one I have talked to has even seen the drop. I feel as if I spend a lot of time farming with my dragon pets equipped, using the luck elixir, and bigger luck and still haven't even seen the drop...begins to make you wonder if they even exist.

At the moment I do feel as if they are a little too rare, and once the initial excitement over trying to get one passes all that is left is discouraged players. Very similar to the bunny ears back during Easter--at first it was so rare everyone just got a little mad they couldn't get the drop. Once the drop rate was adjusted--I still wasn't lucky enough to get a drop myself but at least saw my friends getting them.

[FluffNStuff]

I personally think the best rarity implementation in the game was the Vyxnaar helm. It was a great balance between high number of occurrences and the low probability of a "win". This of course is referring to the level 25 Vyxnaar, where as the level 50 Vynaar got it backwards.

[Walkhardd]

It's a fine line between something being too rare, and not rare enough.

I'm not sure whats up with the drop rates in nuris now, but it seemed like they were just about right when nuris was the cap.(I'm referring to the set pieces and crafting mats for demonic. Not the non set pinks.)

I think it's a good idea to throw in super rare items, like the dragon vanity, from time to time. Or, something like "green ice", and vyxnaar helms .Keeps the community interested.

[deviousdemon]

It's a fine line between something being too rare, and not rare enough.

I'm not sure whats up with the drop rates in nuris now, but it seemed like they were just about right when nuris was the cap.(I'm referring to the set pieces and crafting mats for demonic. Not the non set pinks.)

I think it's a good idea to throw in super rare items, like the dragon vanity, from time to time. Or, something like "green ice", and vyxnaar helms .Keeps the community interested.

totally agree

keep it the way it is... simply super rare

most ppl already have the same look bv of their sets!

so those ppl who could effort dragon sets or even pieces or might b lucky enough to loot any should proudly show them .... :)

note: im not one of those ...not now and probably not in future ;)

[drewcapu]

I'm fine with the rarity of Dragon items.

Will they be dropping in Humania also? Or will people have to stick to Fang if they want to farm it?

Glyphic Blade Steels (and basically all Nuri pinks), on the other hand, are too rare :vD:

[Zeus]

I think too rare is discouraging, especially for those who use platinum elixirs to farm.

It should be a balance between challenge and reward.

So, essentially, I think Dragon Drop rates should be bumped up, but still to the point where they are lower drop rate than the premium pinks but a noticeable increase in drop rate percentage.

Same thing goes for Nuri's drops IMO.

[Darkfader]

In my opinion dragon vanity items drop rate is little bit too low at the moment, but not much. I would see as good suggestion bumb up dragon vanitys little bit and nuri drops with huge hammer(jk, not too much but maybe same as dragons now)

[lilgangster]

I think the only reason it costs so much n alot of ppl want is cuz its rare, if it beacme an item u could go n get with hardly any effort thn its popularity would go down, yea it looks cool but i say keep it the way it is, if u have to raise its probability jst a TINY tiny bit

[Slcinuup]

Too rare is when you run for three hours and get nothing. :(

[Rawrimafish]

Hey gang,

We've been reading feedback about the recently added Dragon Vanity Armor and wanted to gauge your feedback of just how rare do you think something like that should be? Should everyone be able to get it, with enough farming? How do you feel about walking into town and hardly ever seeing anyone wearing a rare piece like the Dragon Vanities?

Can you give us an example of something that feels "right" to your concept of how the game should work?

Thanks, as always, for your feedback!

i think its too rare. ive only seen someone name fauken (i think) and he has red armor helm and argos. he probably bought or looted. idk but its difficult for me bcus i havent farmed it lol

[Windwaiker]

It'd be nice to have a variety of somewhat rare, rare, and super rare items. That way, someone getting a lucky super rare drop van be excited, but casual players can still get something cool. I would prefer if there were no super rare items though, because I'm lazy lol

[nazgulking]

IMHO the drop rate in ao3 was the best. You had to make some runs to get a full set but, for a casual player, still obtainable through some farming. I think there should be some items to be super rare to keep the hardcore farmers occupied.
In short for campaign pinks use ao3 drop rate, for recipes and components make their drop rate a tad lower than the campaign pinks, for premium pinks (ice green, dragon set...) make the drop rate the same of the lvl 25 Vyxnaar helm.

[Xionskull]

I think the gold dragon should be 5mil or sound there not like 20mil. I go around town seeing people sell the blue dragon for 10mil think make it 500k-1m that's better.

[dudetus]

I think too rare is discouraging, especially for those who use platinum elixirs to farm.

It should be a balance between challenge and reward.

So, essentially, I think Dragon Drop rates should be bumped up, but still to the point where they are lower drop rate than the premium pinks but a noticeable increase in drop rate percentage.

Same thing goes for Nuri's drops IMO.

Precisely.

[CodyBearr]

Nuri's crafting materials & Glyph pinks....

And as for the dragon thing I haven't seen one drop or anyone I run with hasn't seen it drop... I mean it's cool to get instant rich off a drop but yeah it looks like its going to take an insane amount of time and money to get this dragon set (including the pet and prob lots of luck elixir) ... I don't mind it being this hard because it's a special vanity unlike every single item in Nuri's

[Suentous PO]

Agreed with Apollo. I play for at least 5-6 hours a day (mostly farming) and have never seen one drop nor seen anyone wearing a set. I like rare but ppl having to switch toons because one alone can't hold enough money to buy one peice?! Too rare.

[Gluttony]

How rare is too rare?
Eli Holden is too rare!
Farming the same map for over a month straight with 3 toons and nothing.
I've at least seen a Dragon armor and helm in CS so I know that it's out there.
I have yet to see anyone post a pic of Eli Holden, nor noticed any toon with the associated Death Incarnate achievement, so that is a prime example of too rare. How about making Eli's rate equal to that of the Dragon sets now and I'll be happy.

Oh yeah, I went there.

http://vinteeage.com/product-images/don-t-cross-the-streams-t-shirt-vintage-t-shirt-review-snorg-tees-snorg-tees.gif

[StompArtist]

How rare is too rare?
Eli Holden is too rare!
Farming the same map for over a month straight with 3 toons and nothing.
I've at least seen a Dragon armor and helm in CS so I know that it's out there.
I have yet to see anyone post a pic of Eli Holden, nor noticed any toon with the associated Death Incarnate achievement, so that is a prime example of too rare. How about making Eli's rate equal to that of the Dragon sets now and I'll be happy with that.

Oh yeah, I went there.

http://vinteeage.com/product-images/don-t-cross-the-streams-t-shirt-vintage-t-shirt-review-snorg-tees-snorg-tees.gif

Yes. Eli Holden rare is def too rare. Anything that require more than 20 hours (2 hours a day for 10 days) of farming on average to obtain is too rare, it just ends up discouraging people.

[MightyMicah]

Honestly I think it doesn't come down to rarity as much as it comes down to money. The more rare an item is, the higher the price. The higher the price, the harder it is for casual players. Personally I hate farming and generally stick to merching as a way of obtaining money. However, it seems with each new cap the rarity of pinks goes up, and the ability to merch as a means of survival (so to speak) becomes harder and harder. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this had something to do with why Evolt left. He got tired of merching more and more money and watching a farmer get a couple drops and make the same amount as him without near as much brains or effect.

What I'm trying to say is, I really like the idea of a super rare item that not many people have, but it seems that this will simply cause an even greater unbalance in the game; from pvp, to merching, to farming. I'm against the idea of it being super rare because it leaves players like myself in the dust and always a step behind the game.

I'm sure many will disagree, and I respect that. This is all simply my opinion
~MM

[Appleisaac]

The pinks at nuris and the dragon armors are far too hard to farm. The first time I went to nuris was after the cap had been moved to fang. It was an awful experience because I did not get one pink the whole time i lvled there. Also, the items i got from bosses were the same as the items I got from regular minions.

[Windwaiker]

Maybe super rare doesn't have to be drop rates? Maybe a doable, but insanely annoying quests that requires someone to pay gold for the item in the end could be considered rare. That way, a casual player can take 20 min a day to slowly complete the quest if they are willing, and hardcore players have something to do too. I'm not too sure how this will work out because if a quest chain is too...obnoxiously crazy, then it could be discouraging. Then again, the reward is supposed to be a rare item.

[MightyMicah]

@windwaiker in theory that is a really good idea! I'm not sure just how it would work, but that is an excellent idea for sure. It would have to be a quest you could complete multiple times as well. Good thinking.

[JaytB]

I agree with Apollo. It can be discouraging to spend a lot of plat to farm for weeks and get nothing to show for.

Maybe there could be a system that logs the hours you actually farm. And slowly increases the chance to get an extremely rare pink. For example, every 10hours, you get an increase by 1% to get the rarest drop. Once you get that drop, that system would reset itself. Some kind of indicator about your chances would be nice too.

IMO, this would encourage the real hardcore farmers to keep farming, knowing that their chances slowly increase. I've been in so many runs, where I had been farming for weeks (hours a day), when some newbie enters and gets an extremely rare pink. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for that guy/girl at that moment, but simultaneously I feel a bit discouraged.

A system that somehow awards the actual hours you're farming, could be something to keep more people interested, knowing that the longer they're without anything, the higher their chances will get.

Thoughts?

[13lacklegionz]

I think the gold dragon should be 5mil or sound there not like 20mil. I go around town seeing people sell the blue dragon for 10mil think make it 500k-1m that's better.

Spacetime Studios has no control over the price. However, if they raise the drop rate, the supply will go up and the price will eventually fall.

[Staryknight]

There is nothing wrong with super rare items where just seeing someone in town wearing it is special, but in a casual game like this, those items shouldn't have stats. Just the look of the item should be enough of a reward. If there is a set bonus, then most average gamers (few hours on most days) should be able to farm one in a few weeks.

IMO vanities should never give stats. What's the point of having cool vanities if everyone just wears the same ones for the set bonus?

[Phoenixking]

There is nothing wrong with super rare items where just seeing someone in town wearing it is special, but in a casual game like this, those items shouldn't have stats. Just the look of the item should be enough of a reward. If there is a set bonus, then most average gamers (few hours on most days) should be able to farm one in a few weeks.

IMO vanities should never give stats. What's the point of having cool vanities if everyone just wears the same ones for the set bonus?
What if O.o they make more! And you can not just customize Looks but stats aswell just like how they did with the faces... Or something.

[Shree]

I think too rare is discouraging, especially for those who use platinum elixirs to farm.

It should be a balance between challenge and reward.

So, essentially, I think Dragon Drop rates should be bumped up, but still to the point where they are lower drop rate than the premium pinks but a noticeable increase in drop rate percentage.

Same thing goes for Nuri's drops IMO.

I fully agree with Apollo! I have a lot of toons (I MAY be slightly addicted to PL) and have ran 10 toons through nuri so far and I have yet to receive a pink or a crafting drop on any of those maps either. Like I had mentioned before I have ran in fang ALOT and still have yet to see any of the dragon drops. Definitely discouraging!

[drewcapu]

I think people need to put this in perspective.

Dragon items have been out a few *days*.

I would farm in Fang for *weeks* without a pink, and I didn't mind. It made finally getting that lilith bracer or that sanguine leather even sweeter!

I would *hope* that dragon items are *at most* 50% likely to drop as a given sanguine/lilith/orlok pink. If I got a dragon drop in one month, I would think that was fair. If longer, I would still think that was fair. How many people in SL have X-Rays?

Money/plat spent on farming should have absolutely no bearing on whether or not someone should loot a dragon piece. It's not like luck re-rolls anything good in Fang anyways. Any elixir used for farming purposes in Fang should be considered only to make the runs faster, nothing else.

[Bebsi]

I capped three toons and no drop yet...
Two days ago I made 105 runs, yesterday 68 runs, today 100 runs.
Altogether over 600 runs easily and no drop yet.
I always use two toons cause Im not sure how the drop rate works on one toon.

How rare is too rare?
Let me ask u one thing. If u grind over 300k xp and neither u or ur mates sees one drop of these 'cool' armors then I'm starting to feel discouraged. I farm at least 6 hours a day but if there's hardly a chance that I see one drop how can I ever complete a set? And for the gold set u have to gamble (I spent a thousand plat on the pet without luck and don't feel like wasting more) again...

Every run takes 2-10 minutes, depending on completion and team set up. So, is it too much to ask for a drop at least every 500 runs? If u run with less experienced players clearing a map takes pretty long. Let's do the math, 10 minutes times 500. Worst case 5000 minutes of grinding gets u one drop which will still be more than 83 hours of farming...

Sam, I just don't know what the drop rate should be but I just feel it is not right atm. Ppl who are running with me hardly grind as much as I do but they still think it is too rare.

[Fyrce]

Too rare is when you run for three hours and get nothing. :(

What?

I think Dragon Armor should be as rare as Green Ice. Actually, maybe have green Dragon stuff at the level of Green Ice, Blue and Red a little bit rarer than that, and Gold Armor a bit rarer than that.

It just seems rare now because it's dropping in an area everyone now thinks of as the "old" area, while we all wait for the new, shiny stuff. It'd be nice if the Dragon Armor drops were moved to the new area or could also drop in the new area or in all areas that are 60+. Farmers could then spread out their farming.

Rarity is great -- about a month of farming each day for a few hours to get an item, occasionally seeing a set -- that's the way I see Dragon Armor.

[Paladinslaya]

I think you should increase the drop rate on Dragon vanities and Glyph in Nuri's Hallows. Ty STS for making a thread for OUR opinions!

[Whirlzap]

I think it's just perfect.
Just as rare of the SL vanities, duh.
Besides, I don't want this turning into something like those crafted sets, where we have everyone at level 65 wearing one.

[Ixillicus]

I think that the items are perhaps too challenging. While I feel they should be more rare than a regular pink. I think the current rates are extremely discouraging and hardcore farmers usually will hit pinks eventually, but if it's this rare it might never happen.

my other concern is that with the new content coming that fang will see minimal play time and thus the amount of dragon in the market will not increase, and items that rare would not be fruitful to farm for

[Suentous PO]

Having them drop in humania would help a bit also.

[Jcyee]

they drop should increase, but not be as high as any other endgame pink. somewhere in that range

[Conradin]

i like green ice rarity

[Esoul]

very rare make me frustated :p

[slaveleia]

As of now since release, it's too rare...Mt Fang in general is too stubborn in giving up any pinks let alone Legendary Dragon stuff. I don't mind working hard & grinding but nothing pays off!...unless you get on a lucky streak. All the drops are becoming like Nuris! The cupboard is bare I swear!
Also annoying is that anything with luck(big luck, bigger luck, luck elixir, thrasher combo elix) doesn't help at all! Mt Fang doesn't have the right color drops that re-roll into anything but trash. Only the vamps drop purples which would reroll into junk pinks. You would hope that any luck stuff would actually make a little difference....maybe stack up? At least give you like a 5% chance instead of 1%?
In closing, it's nice for things to be rare but not when you're the one that doesn't have none! Lol. Dragon prices right now are like 4-8 million each? Wow

[Livemau]

it should drop to every player once in every 100 rounds

[Conradin]

in a game like this you need super rares to keep people interested

[McBain]

In theory, I have no problem with certain items being super rare, other than me being jealous. Especially if it's a vanity item. Having something that sets you apart visually from most other toons in the game that mostly look almost exactly the same is what makes it special. BTW, though, I agree with the folks who have said that vanity items shouldn't have stats. I say leave the stats for the proper gear and make vanities just for looks only.

As for the non-vanity drops, the rarity level may be too high in some cases. I mean, I have yet to witness any pink drops in Nuri's. I guess the drop rate was higher when it was first introduced, and I never played there until relatively recently, but after having done what feels like at least a hundred runs through the Nuri maps without seeing a single pink either for myself or the other players, it's more than a little discouraging. Maybe I'm just really unlucky. Who knows.

I just started playing Dark Legends, and something I kinda like is how you can see a list of what drops in each map, along with the drop rate. I think just being able to know going in what your chances are without any guesswork makes it seem like less of a waste of time to do those extra runs to try for those good drops. I haven't gotten any pink drops in DL either yet (after 15 levels), but I somehow feel less hopeless about it. Maybe something to consider transferring over to the other Legends games.

[Cahaun]

I capped three toons and no drop yet...
Two days ago I made 105 runs, yesterday 68 runs, today 100 runs.
Altogether over 600 runs easily and no drop yet.
I always use two toons cause Im not sure how the drop rate works on one toon.

How rare is too rare?
Let me ask u one thing. If u grind over 300k xp and neither u or ur mates sees one drop of these 'cool' armors then I'm starting to feel discouraged. I farm at least 6 hours a day but if there's hardly a chance that I see one drop how can I ever complete a set? And for the gold set u have to gamble (I spent a thousand plat on the pet without luck and don't feel like wasting more) again...

Every run takes 2-10 minutes, depending on completion and team set up. So, is it too much to ask for a drop at least every 500 runs? If u run with less experienced players clearing a map takes pretty long. Let's do the math, 10 minutes times 500. Worst case 5000 minutes of grinding gets u one drop which will still be more than 83 hours of farming...

Sam, I just don't know what the drop rate should be but I just feel it is not right atm. Ppl who are running with me hardly grind as much as I do but they still think it is too rare.
Prime example of too rare. You deserve an entire set! O.o

[Bebsi]

No, I don't.
Farak runs 10 hours every day. A complete red set dropped to him and yesterday he got his second red armor... O.o
Am I jealous? I am.
Do I give up? No way!!!

Somehow, STS found a new cash cow and I fell for it xD

Anyway, if they wouldn't have come up with that I would have taken a long break from the game... lol

To the guys suffering with me there every day. I'll be with u till the end, good or bad ^_^

[LwMark]

It will also help people coming back to fang..because i def know i havent been.to sewers since sewers day..imo theyl have shield and pets drop and probably more diffrent helms and armor in humania an so on..im glad they added dropped vanities

[slaveleia]

No, I don't.
Farak runs 10 hours every day. A complete red set dropped to him and yesterday he got his second red armor... O.o
Am I jealous? I am.
Do I give up? No way!!!

Somehow, STS found a new cash cow and I fell for it xD

Anyway, if they wouldn't have come up with that I would have taken a long break from the game... lol

To the guys suffering with me there every day. I'll be with u till the end, good or bad ^_^

I've seen the bird Farak-something with his Red dragon set...10 hrs a day? Holy...I got to give him props for that. I used to able to grind it out that hard but I've been losing it in Mt Fang. No wonder Farak has over 600,000 kills too, that's another amazing total he's building up. Id have to say I admire that kind of effort!

[Elyseon]

Ur the Devs, how exclusive do you want it? I'd love to have the rates raised for my sake, but if you want them to be rare, make em rare

[Kixxler]

To be honest, if the vanity was harder to drop you would be making a larger profit.
I've heard stories of people blowing hundreds of bucks to drop those vanity pieces.
The current rate is fine, make the farmers work for it ;)

[modredd]

I believe the drop rate should be increased for the dragon armor and helm as well and especially for premium pinks in Nuri,That drop rate is just ridiculous.
As a 2 year veteran that is my opinion!
We all need an incentive to play but if you never get The prize you lose interest and not all of us have 6 hours to farm.

[Swimmingstar]

I think too rare is discouraging, especially for those who use platinum elixirs to farm.

It should be a balance between challenge and reward.

So, essentially, I think Dragon Drop rates should be bumped up, but still to the point where they are lower drop rate than the premium pinks but a noticeable increase in drop rate percentage.

Same thing goes for Nuri's drops IMO.

Yep. Or maybe there could be a quest...

[Whirlzap]

No, they should NOT be bumped up.
Why cannot people just take something hardcore.
With all due respect, I've USED a 4x Combo once before and I know what it feels like to spend that much Plat and get nothing.
Well, only once but.....

If you buy a Plat Elixir, you are not guaranteed a Dragon Vanity, in fact, you are not even guaranteed a pink.

I don't see why SL players had no problem with this and why PL players do.
It's the FIRST drop that's actually insanely rare, even more rare than 56 Glyph.
56 Glyph ONLY seems rare because NH is always empty, plus there are barely any 56s farming there or giving the effort.
Look at the MASSIVE amount of level 65s/66s attempting to farm a Dragon Armor.
You CANNOT compare that to the measly few that bother to even farm NH at level 56.

My point is, let this be a vanity item like the X-Ray Visor in SL.
It will have less farming craze as we get closer to Humania.
Think of how people stopped farming the X-Ray Visor massively after Slouch-O came out.
This way, the dragon vanities won't become similar to Hooch Hats or Level 65 Crafted Sets and still yield a lucky newb some gold.

[Whirlzap]

No, I don't.
Farak runs 10 hours every day. A complete red set dropped to him and yesterday he got his second red armor... O.o
Am I jealous? I am.
Do I give up? No way!!!

Somehow, STS found a new cash cow and I fell for it xD

Anyway, if they wouldn't have come up with that I would have taken a long break from the game... lol

To the guys suffering with me there every day. I'll be with u till the end, good or bad ^_^

He doesn't just run 10 hours every day.
He SOLOs.
And the most disturbing part, he SOLOs with 4x Combo the WHOLE 10 hours.
That is basically 400 Plat a day.
I also have the feeling that he name changed.

[drewcapu]

If you buy a Plat Elixir, you are not guaranteed a Dragon Vanity, in fact, you are not even guaranteed a pink.


People are quick to forget that bosses in Fang do not drop purples to re-roll into pinks.

Work for it, people!

[Physiologic]

People are quick to forget that bosses in Fang do not drop purples to re-roll into pinks.

Work for it, people!

I've reached 66 but I'm still buying thrashers daily to up my kill count =p Im not even running for Vanity drops anymore, though I'm still killing bosses.

[Bebsi]

I've reached 66 but I'm still buying thrashers daily to up my kill count =p Im not even running for Vanity drops anymore, though I'm still killing bosses.

I was quite impressed how u shot ur way through MF.
U killed quicker with ur Nuri set than most birds with their MF set ^_^

[zeusabe]

I've been blabbing about drop rates for a while and nobody seem to take notice of it. That's the only concrete measurement to know if something is "too rare", rare, average, whatnot.

11859

If you look at the photo above, you'll see the enemy loots and corresponding drop rates. In relation to the overall drop rate of items in this particular game, players could tell if an item is "too rare", just right, or too frequent. Right now, for PL and the dragon items to be precise, everything is about the "feel or personal experience", some random player will say, "I feel like this is too rare...because I didn't get any", meanwhile another players will claim "I feel that it's not that rare, I got it my first try..."...there's nothing concrete to discuss as far as rarity. What is rare in the first place (I assure you, you'll get different inputs based on player temperament, some are more patient than others), we can't talk about something "too rare" if we can't even define what is "rare" in this game? What is a pink's drop rate versus a purple? What's the drop rate of this pink versus that pink? This is precisely my point, provide drop rates, and I can easily identify which items are too frequent or too rare, which items I will invest my time farming on or those items I'll just buy using gold or platinum. An item is too rare/frequent if its drop rate deviates negatively from the average drop rate of "rare" items (assuming the drop rate of rare items is at 0.09%, so any rate below that number will be "too rare" to indicate it's rarity is above the rare class, in fact, you can say 0.08%-0.01% is "too rare", and 0.009% below is "myth rare", that's the methodology). Right now, my answer would be make the dragon item drop so at least 1/4 of the population gets it...see, how vague can that be? I'll leave it up to the rest to give better inputs, I'll just keep shaking my head every time this issue comes up.

[Suntv]

I think it's just good the way it is now. In my friendlist of 75 active players, 2 players have either one or both items. Those are the ones i know of and they obtained it by droppings and/or buying. There are probably a few I dont know of. So 5 out of 75 is a nice average (6.66%, :evil: ).

I'd be far more interested in knowing the perfect conditions under which they drop. Are there lower chances if:
- you are level 66;
- you don't open all goldchests;
- you keep the Vampire(s) (1 on 1st floor, 2 on 2nd floor) alive;
- you use elixers;
- you play on the last boss-map?


:rugby:

[Rare]

Too rare is when you run for three hours and get nothing. :(

Lol. You expected to get that in three hours?? I've run for probably 15 hours since the thing was released and haven't even SEEN one drop.

Not to mention other pink drops that i have yet to lot from fang in 6 months.

I think this drop rate is perfect. Like others have said, it keeps the popularity and demand high. IMO adding these drops was one of the best decisions you guys have made with this game (maybe doing it a little sooner)

[Shellkaz]

I agree with the others who say the drop rate is too rare. I have yet to see anything drop there, I don't think any one in my guild has the dragon armor. My opinion is that the casual player will never amass either enough gold or runs to get the armor. They will always be "a day late, and a dollar short". Personally I would like to see something like the cyber or shadow quests initiated for the dragon armor. Heck even a kill 1000 vamps (mini boss/boss) quest would make it an obtainable item, that anyone could get with enough work. ( still wont get me back into vlods room though LOL). Except to help open the map. :-)

Because the way I see it it, with the way things are now, with the drop rate the way it is right now, fang will be just another map to blast through and pray you never have to go back to, just like nuris. I was so excited to see the dragon armor announced, but then nearly a week went by before I saw a single piece in cs. . . . . For 10 mill!!! I was beginning to think the drop rate was glitched. Nope I'm not paying 10 mil. Prices and drop rates like that just discourage all but the hardest of the hard core. And from what I can see even some of them are discouraged.

My initial excitement has turned to apathy. I'm not going to waste my time farming for something I have little or no chance of obtaining. I'm just working on my war chest for humania. If I get a drop along the way hooray if I don't . . . Meh.

[DerSchuetze]

Rare items keep addicted players playing. If everythings toi comon ppl start losing interest after a week. If everyweek there is new contest its fine but we dont have that, so we need reasons to stay on, like the new coming achievement system and more quests. Im rly looking forward to it.

[Shellkaz]

But see that's exactly what I mean, the dragon armor drop is too rare. Your looking forward to the new map just like me. I won't be going back to fang to farm for dragon armor, will you? It's too rare for me, and It's not worth my time to run for hours and hours and hours with no reward. I'll go back to help guildies level, but not for dragon armor. Something has to be obtainable with a reasonable amount of effort. As one poster mentioned over 600 runs with full groups and not a single dragon armor to anyone. That's on par with nuris and no one goes to nuris except to get through it on their way to fang.

[Griffinfan]

How rare is to rare?
Well I think that if most of the people in PL haven't even seen a dragon armor drop (including myself) Then its to rare. I would also add that I don't want it to become to easy to get to the point where everyone has a set and they sell for 100k each, but maybe we could have it drop a little more often?. Thanks for caring about our opinions STS!

[Shellkaz]

Not only have I not seen one drop, the only sets I've seen any one wearing are the plat sets. I still think that this would make a great high level quest item!

[n00b13st]

There is too much exclusivity already IMO but not enough uniqueness/distinction. How about adding a mechanic I've seen elsewhere where you can combine items and get increasingly customized and unique result items (with the type of the final item determined by the highest level/rated item that is put into the mix)? Maybe you can't have a million different looks but perhaps you could have more varieties of stats that lets each build be really different and unpredictable?

[mrnofunz]

I think the drop rat is fine! It is a super rare vanity. It got me back into a game that has been stale for a while(still the best STS has!!). I was lucky enough to get a red dragon helm on the 3rd run in Emma. I joined a near full server of thrashers and asked if I could stay. They allowed. I was on my alternative lvl 64 bear and had no elixirs or luck enhancers. I can't thank that group enough for letting me stay. I love the community pocket legends has. Good people, good times great pinks. Did I mention this game really made me like the color pink!! When I see it in real life I get excited. Is that weird?'

[OvigorothO]

there are somethings in the game are indeed very valuable. These items i believe are often incorrectly deemed extremely valuable based on rarity. I believe it should be based on how powerful,useful the item is. Dragon vanities should be slightly more obtainable.

[imaddictedtoPL]

I think the drop rat is fine! It is a super rare vanity. It got me back into a game that has been stale for a while(still the best STS has!!). I was lucky enough to get a red dragon helm on the 3rd run in Emma. I joined a near full server of thrashers and asked if I could stay. They allowed. I was on my alternative lvl 64 bear and had no elixirs or luck enhancers. I can't thank that group enough for letting me stay. I love the community pocket legends has. Good people, good times great pinks. Did I mention this game really made me like the color pink!! When I see it in real life I get excited. Is that weird?' hey thats me! Billiardz XD

[MightyMicah]

So far, after reading everyone's comments I believe that whirlzap made the most sense.

Here's my only problem. Because these items are so rare, people have tended to get the idea that it will only drop to the truly dedicated farmers. while this may be true in the case of Farakseven, it isn't the case (from what I've seen) with any other person. In other words it has dropped to a few random people who probably didn't farm all that much.

What I'm trying to say is, I like the idea of working really hard and getting a reward from it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. That's the way life is. If you disagree then tell that to life, not me. So far with the normal drop rates of other pinks, working hard has payed off every time. The longer you farm, the more it will pay off. However, with these new vanities it seems more of a "random lucky drop" kind of deal, rather than a "I've farmed for x amount of time and finally got mine."

I just don't think these vanities are "fair" because a dedicated farmer will not get a reward for his work. This is why I like the idea of a really long and hard quest, rather than just an extremely lucky drop.

[Rare]

I just don't think these vanities are "fair" because a dedicated farmer will not get a reward for his work. This is why I like the idea of a really long and hard quest, rather than just an extremely lucky drop.

Maybe I'm confused. Its no different than any other drop. They are always random. The more you run, the more you have an opportunity to get the drop.

Let me give you an example, I've been farming for Sanguine Leather for weeks now and Sanguine Longbow since Fang was released (never got one of these). I've seen each drop 2 or 3 time to different people in the last week. But not to me. Its the same logic as with the dragon vanities.

The drop system is random. That's the way its been for a long time. At least since I started playing.

[blatta]

[QUOTE=Aedenos;668271]Maybe I'm confused. Its no different than any other drop. They are always random. The more you run, the more you have an opportunity to get the drop.

That´s two different things. Drops are technically random, but as long as the drop rate is not too low, it maybe feels like a reward for your hard farming.

[Phoenixking]

Its as rare to make me rage quit, and I have yet to farm it, just hearing it sounds like a myth O.o

[Dragonrider023]

I think too rare is discouraging, especially for those who use platinum elixirs to farm.

It should be a balance between challenge and reward.

So, essentially, I think Dragon Drop rates should be bumped up, but still to the point where they are lower drop rate than the premium pinks but a noticeable increase in drop rate percentage.

Same thing goes for Nuri's drops IMO.

Agreed, Nuri drop rates need to increase.

[GoodSyntax]

It seems like the general consensus here is:

- Mt. Fang, and specifically, Dragon drop rate is too low
- Nuri's drop rate is too low

I missed the Nuri release because I was too busy with my other tasks in game (helping noobs, hosting giveaways, training guildmates, etc.) so I missed out on the initial surge of pinks released. By the time I circled back to Nuri's it was difficult to get a group together, even PUGs! Now, Nuri's is a ghost town, and I've farmed Nuri's for a long, long time (Lions Den and Nuri's Madness mostly), without a single pink for me or anyone in any group I've been in. Frankly, I think the drop rate is why Nuri's rarely has much going on for it. There are a few farmers who host private games (which is fine, they are farming after all), but the small number of groups that I see there are just around to level their toons to ~58-59 so they can tackle Mt. Fang. Shoot, I see more activity in Frozen Nightmares than in Nuri's and that says a lot because the two elite quests in Nightmares are a real grind! Fortunately, Nightmares has a reasonable drop rate and is still challenging for higher level characters, so it is still a fun map.

Alien Oasis on the other hand has a very high drop rate (relatively speaking), but it seems super popular for the farming crowd. At least you can go there and find plenty of groups and on certain maps (Plasma Pyramid and Victory Lap), you will almost certainly get a pink drop after a few runs. While this drives down prices for most of the pinks, there are still some that are rare enough to keep it interesting (Mirage Robe, Ryylox Blaster and a handful of others) and actually has some value in the Consignment Shop. Unfortunately, because the drop rate is so high in Oasis, you always get the merchants who buys discounted items, but always says "No Alien Oasis". Oasis has the formula pretty close, just reduce the "junk" pink drop rate by ~25-40% and I think you have a good model.

Fang, like Nuri's seems to have the drop rate set very low. I've been grinding in Fang since the release and I've received four....FOUR....pinks. Hundreds and hundreds of runs! I understand how the drop rate works and that it is not cumulative, so whether you are on run 1 or run 1000, the drop percentages are exactly the same, but that's a pretty low return. Honestly, I'm not really too put off by it, but it just "feels" like the drop rate is set too low. Further, since the Dragon announcement, I've focused almost all of my in game time on trying to get at least one of the Dragon items. Over the course of literally hundreds of runs, I have yet to see a drop, for myself or any of the groups I've been in. Everyone I've spoken to reports that they haven't seen a drop either, and they too feel that the drop rate in Fang seems to have decreased. Most of my guild mates say that they haven't seen a pink drop in weeks.

My fear is that once Humania is introduced, Fang will become just like Nuri's, a ghost town that people grind through, just so they can level up to get to the new map. Afterall, farming on a map where the drop rates are so low ends up costing you money. In the time it takes to get an Orlok Plate, get the recipe and craft it, you can amass a couple of Laser Cannons, a Mega Mage Robe, a couple of Onyx items, a Voodoo item and a Vyxxnar helm. With a crafted Plate going for ~600K, you end up losing a lot, especially if you purchase elixirs to "increase" your luck. This is probably the main reason why Nuri's is always nearly empty - yes, Glyph and Demonic items have a lot of value, but with drop rates so low, you're better off farming in Sandstone Caves - average revenue per hour of game time is, by a huge margin, worst in the Nuri and Fang maps.

[MightyMicah]

@aedenos right, but the more the rarity is increased, the harder it is for the law of averages to play out.

If you flip a quarter 1,000,000 times it will probably land on heads 500,000 times and tails 500,000 times, or something very very close. However if were to draw 1,000,000 times out of a hat filled with 1,000,000 names and only one is yours, you will not get your name. In fact you could try several million times and you most likely won't get your name. Why? Because the law of averages has a harder time playing out on a higher scale; in this case, higher rarity.

The quarter had a 50% chance each time, whereas the name drawing only had 1/1,000,000% chance each time.

[Sryyoulose]

Yeah this is to rare for a later add in on a campaign. It might've been better if it dropped right from the start!

[Sryyoulose]

Lol. You expected to get that in three hours?? I've run for probably 15 hours since the thing was released and haven't even SEEN one drop.

Not to mention other pink drops that i have yet to lot from fang in 6 months.

I think this drop rate is perfect. Like others have said, it keeps the popularity and demand high. IMO adding these drops was one of the best decisions you guys have made with this game (maybe doing it a little sooner)

15 hours? never seen? thats brutal 7 hours seen 3 then again ppl say me runs are lucky.. for them not for me

[octavos]

Rare is to rare when you have 4 pages of people saying its rare. So it needs to be bumped a bit. But yea the pros will out weigh the cons.

edit*
now its 5 pages long.

[Windwaiker]

Maybe count vlod should have a higher drop rate for dragon armors, because he is brutal! Then again, when we are all level 100, he might not be that hard.

[Noodleleg]

Increase the rates.
'nuff said.

[Whirlzap]

Guys what annoys me here so much is that the way you guys are talking,
You cannot handle a single thing that is hardcore.
Seriously.
It's just a freaking drop rate.
Quit complaining about it and go spend 10 hours a day like Farak does.
I believe it is FINE.
I can go and show you some rates on other games, and you know what?
The dedicated players in those other games farm a thousand more times more than I ever could have the patience for and they make an item with a drop rate like .0166 seem easy to farm.

I believe you guys just need to put some hardcore-ness on and just bear the grind.

I DO agree with Windwalker's idea.
Make Count Vlod have a higher drop rate.
He's way harder to kill for a party and he is rarely farmed compared to the first and second floors.

[Zeus]

Guys what annoys me here so much is that the way you guys are talking,
You cannot handle a single thing that is hardcore.
Seriously.
It's just a freaking drop rate.
Quit complaining about it and go spend 10 hours a day like Farak does.
I believe it is FINE.
I can go and show you some rates on other games, and you know what?
The dedicated players in those other games farm a thousand more times more than I ever could have the patience for and they make an item with a drop rate like .0166 seem easy to farm.

I believe you guys just need to put some hardcore-ness on and just bear the grind.

I DO agree with Windwalker's idea.
Make Count Vlod have a higher drop rate.
He's way harder to kill for a party and he is rarely farmed compared to the first and second floors.

This isn't a desktop game, but one that is based on a phone. I'm sorry if the majority of the PL population can't spend 10 hours a day on their phone.

[Noodleleg]

This isn't a desktop game, but one that is based on a phone. I'm sorry if the majority of the PL population can't spend 10 hours a day on their phone.

Or their iPads :D

[Prestige]

Guys what annoys me here so much is that the way you guys are talking,
You cannot handle a single thing that is hardcore.
Seriously.
It's just a freaking drop rate.
Quit complaining about it and go spend 10 hours a day like Farak does.
I believe it is FINE.
I can go and show you some rates on other games, and you know what?
The dedicated players in those other games farm a thousand more times more than I ever could have the patience for and they make an item with a drop rate like .0166 seem easy to farm.

I believe you guys just need to put some hardcore-ness on and just bear the grind.

I DO agree with Windwalker's idea.
Make Count Vlod have a higher drop rate.
He's way harder to kill for a party and he is rarely farmed compared to the first and second floors.

It is much harder on the eyes when playing a phone game for hours and hours bro. Your vision will be wrecked after playing a full 12 hours on a phone game. Then again I could careless about vanities as my luck pretty much sucks with about any vanity.

[byserk]

Well I farm a lot too and never saw one thing drop. And I only see the green, red and gold in cs for sale. So does the blue one ever drop? I've bought the blue dragon, so I would love to have the blue armor and helmet. So up the odds on blue ;)
But when the odds aren't adjusted it is fine with me too. But...

As few others also said: The odds in Nuri are wrong, when u try to get your xp in Nuri without elixir like I did, I didnt get one single drop for steel or any pink armor or weapons. So those odds should be adjusted so that you have the change to get at least anywhere near crafting demonic stuff. When Nuri was the cap, I made one set str type, but sold it to get the crafted lvl 65 (in december 2011). At that time I didn't even get one and half million for the full set. Now that the droprates are so low. It is impossible to farm the stuff together...

Even though I could simply buy it again, the items are so rare, that most of the times the stuff isn't even for sale. So when STS do adjust the rates at Nuri's plz plz plz plz announce that too!!

May Luck be with you all.

[Shree]

Guys what annoys me here so much is that the way you guys are talking,
You cannot handle a single thing that is hardcore.
Seriously.
It's just a freaking drop rate.
Quit complaining about it and go spend 10 hours a day like Farak does.
I believe it is FINE.
I can go and show you some rates on other games, and you know what?
The dedicated players in those other games farm a thousand more times more than I ever could have the patience for and they make an item with a drop rate like .0166 seem easy to farm.

I believe you guys just need to put some hardcore-ness on and just bear the grind.

I DO agree with Windwalker's idea.
Make Count Vlod have a higher drop rate.
He's way harder to kill for a party and he is rarely farmed compared to the first and second floors.

Actually I spend almost all of my time farming--trying to up my overall kills and of course get a rare drop. I run with one of my 5-L66 toons, and I run with all of my guildmates. I am on PL 7 days a week for a minimum of 6 hours a day, but that is on a work day since...well I still need to work to pay my bills. On weekends I probably average closer to 10 hrs (Fri-Sun) and yet I still have not seen a drop. I have spent hours running each Fang boss--and although I am getting drops here and there again I have NOT seen a Dragon Vanity, nor has any of my guildmates. I have some friends that spend a LOT more time on PL than I do--and saying we can't handle a single thing hardcore is a little harsh imo. I would definitely rate myself as a hardcore player--and I do think it is a little too rare, because players need to get some gratification after their hours of runs.

[Snakespeare]

In order to keep a game interesting you have to find a balance between too easy and too hard. People need to keep believing they have a chance at something they are seeking or they stop. For instance, I stopped farming for recipes after a month because I never got one. I wasn't motivated by wanting the item itself, but by wanting to actually craft something. Otherwise, I would have farmed gold and bought the item. Then I looked back on the month I spent trying to get a recipe as a total waste of time. After that I watched the drop rates and paid attention to what other players were reporting. If something was "uber-rare" (and most things are nowadays) I would try a few times, no expectations, then go on to something else.

So it comes down to behaviorism. If the reward stops showing up, the pigeon will keep pecking at the red spot for a while, then lose interest. There has to be a success or the pigeon won't try. Getting the pigeon to start pecking again will require some sort of evidence, an actual success, but now the pigeon won't try, so it has to be enticed.

So for me the question to ask isn't "how do you feel about a vanity being too abundant". I think the question is, what level of rarity will inspire you to farm? or How many fails before you quit? Because once they quit, like the pigeon, it's very hard to get them to start trying again. And what you want is a whole lot of players believing they will get drops if they try just one more time. That is how elixirs are sold, and that is how the population base is kept high.

That said, I'm so jaded, the current levels do not inspire me to farm at all. I do not play enough for the odds to work in my favor. It's a waste of time for me because I won't get it. Like the pigeon, I have lost hope. What gives me new hope? Usually when you announce a nerf or an item is added to the game that gives a temporary luck bonus like Pop's cap for Memorial Day.

as for "you need to be more hardcore" I can only say, well, no I don't. I have a life and I like it. ;)

good luck!

[FluffNStuff]

Maybe count vlod should have a higher drop rate for dragon armors, because he is brutal! Then again, when we are all level 100, he might not be that hard.

They backed themselves into a corner with the elixirs so harder boss can not equal higher drop rate. If Vlad did have a high rate for these, 5 thrashing players could beat a couple dragon sets out of him pretty quick while the non plats are complaining. Currently all players have the same chance at killing most bosses, and the same low chance at getting the armor, the thrashers just have more opportunities because they can repeat it faster. That does give them an advantage, but not one so overpowered that dragon armor becomes synonymous with "plat bought".

[Floating]

As Apollo stated too rare is discouraging when not rare enough is "dull" and not a challenge. So, from my standpoint, an avarage 5% drop rate ( or maybe less ) would be good to start with. If the crying touches the forums too soon it means that it is too low or if we see too many using them it is too much... My opinion

[Ixillicus]

As Apollo stated too rare is discouraging when not rare enough is "dull" and not a challenge. So, from my standpoint, an avarage 5% drop rate ( or maybe less ) would be good to start with. If the crying touches the forums too soon it means that it is too low or if we see too many using them it is too much... My opinion

I think 5% is pretty high, that would mean that you would get one in every 20 runs. Current pink rates arent even that high.

[FluffNStuff]

I think 5% is pretty high, that would mean that you would get one in every 20 runs. Current pink rates arent even that high.

1% would make more sense, that way you would ~see~ one drop in every 20 runs (assuming a team of 5). The sweet spot is right where you have a decent chance of seeing it drop, but a low chance of that drop being you. I really think seeing the drops is what, as snakes would say, makes the pigeons want to peck ;)

[Zeus]

I think 5% is pretty high, that would mean that you would get one in every 20 runs. Current pink rates arent even that high.

Remember our mount fang runs? :) drop rates were much higher than that!

[Swimmingstar]

1% drop rates!

[StompArtist]

1% drop rate gives you ~63% chances over 100 attempts at getting the drop.

(one could extrapolate that Eli Holden in DL has a drop rate of 0.0001% therefore 0.01% over 100 tries :P)


Source: http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/01/13/drop-chance-probability/

[KingFu]

This isn't a desktop game, but one that is based on a phone. I'm sorry if the majority of the PL population can't spend 10 hours a day on their phone.

The problem is, a lot of people actually can (especially since summer is around the corner....it's even here already for some). Those that can spend the 10 hours a day really make the value plummet quickly due to their constant farming....

I personally like how items are added mid-campaign. They did it in AO2, and Sewers. It draws back interest to the campaign, and gives people another oppritunity to make more gold from farming. I think if the rates were maybe a bit lower than Sewers were (as the community has grown since sewers, which means more end game farmers) and they added new items throughout the campaign, it would bring more interest back to farming, and give people a few oppritunities to make gold. As long as they don't make the new items superior than the others, it would help keep the economy flowing.

[Ixillicus]

1% drop rate gives you ~63% chances over 100 attempts at getting the drop.

(one could extrapolate that Eli Holden in DL has a drop rate of 0.0001% therefore 0.01% over 100 tries :P)


Source: http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/01/13/drop-chance-probability/

To put 0.01% in better terms...

If 100 people did 100 runs only one of them would get one drop.

[Swimmingstar]

1% drop rate gives you ~63% chances over 100 attempts at getting the drop.

(one could extrapolate that Eli Holden in DL has a drop rate of 0.0001% therefore 0.01% over 100 tries :P)


Source: http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/01/13/drop-chance-probability/

Yep this drop rate would be cool.

Nuri's is like 0.001% drop rate if nobody got anything in 1,000 runs.

[Ixillicus]

Remember our mount fang runs? :) drop rates were much higher than that!

Thats because everyone is after me luckkkkky cheeeerms.

[Swimmingstar]

I think about 70% of the time I'm in a run and a good pink drops, I get it. Lol.

[Uiltje]

I think the rate is good. 95% of items are attainable easy enough as it is, in my opinion having some extremely super rare items like the dragon sets, or the l.56 sets for instance keeps the game challenging, and keeps you dreaming for more, which is what keeps you playing. easying up the rates will just make it another vanity for in your stash eventually and we have soooooo many of those already...

[Elyseon]

I think the rate is good. 95% of items are attainable easy enough as it is, in my opinion having some extremely super rare items like the dragon sets, or the l.56 sets for instance keeps the game challenging, and keeps you dreaming for more, which is what keeps you playing. easying up the rates will just make it another vanity for in your stash eventually and we have soooooo many of those already...

Says the guy with the red set ;D
Haha jk
But I agree it's kinda like a new vyxnaar helm

[Buddyf97]

The people that don't think the drop rate should be raised..
A) Received a drop and doesn't want it to drop in rarity
B) Have not farmed for countless hours!
If you ask me, they should have a higher drop rate! It is absolutely crazy how long I have been farming and no luck! I was unlucky in Nuri's Hallows with 23 glyphs dropping in my group, none to me. But farming and only seeing one drop in my group is a little crazy...

[Elyseon]

Actually I don't have one, but I think it's pretty cool having an ultra exclusive item in the game, something's should be ridiculously hard to get IMO

[Henryge]

played this game for alittle over 2 months
the xp/drop rate is what i like about this game.
casual gamers can easily level up, while the more serious gamers can go for the level cap with a reward (elite vanity)
casual gamers can easily obain useable items (noncraftable pinks), while the more serious can farm for craftables.

As for the rarity of dragon vanity, i would think its a little low the moment. every now and then u hear about someone getting one. while i know there are farmers who spent tons of exliers thrasher 4x punch and farm for over a week n doesnt get it. if its a little more reward, it would encourage more players to do thrasher party to farm it.

[kiitz]

I think there should be a balance between rare drops and letting the players at least work toward something that will make them feel like they have not wasted their time on the hundreds of runs -- because until you actually get something, it feels like everything before it was a waste of time.

The cyber quest chain was great. You still had to do a crap load of runs to get the full set, but there were also chances of other items dropping.

I think the equivalent would be cyber type quest in Mt. Fang. You have to run Mt. Fang like 100 or 200 times to complete the quest. Basically, as you farm for the dragon vanity you also get a feeling of accomplishment because you can see the quest slowly getting completed. If nothing drops, you've at least gotten that tedious quest done and snazzy reward (rainbow dragon vanity?!)

[GoodSyntax]

I agree, the Cyber, Mystery and Black Ice quests are a good way to approach this. The only problem I have is that these items do not have elite stats. These items (Black Ice in particular) have stats that are just barely better than junk pinks, so at least for the Cyber and Mystery items, the only saving grace is the set bonus (which is paltry). The Black Ice items are junk, and something that I only sometimes use for my lower level twinks.

Perhaps there should be a quest that requires 25, 50 or 100 vlod kills - truly a grind! Maybe you can start with a base pink after 25 kills, enhance it after 50 and by 100 kills it becomes an honest-to-god elite item. Do the same for the other Fang bosses to complete a set where the set bonus scales based on whether your set consists of the base pinks, enhanced pinks or epic pinks. Unlike the Cyber and Mystery items, these should be allowed to be sold. So the base pink item may command 200K but the epic item would be well over 1M because it is such a grind and the stats would be so much better than any of the other pinks at that level!

The value that I see here is that these are the quest types that are a grind, so most will skip over them. Others, when they have hit the level cap, may come back and revisit the quests, and the elites will farm the heck out of them. It at least gives you a goal that you can chase when you hit level cap. Another important point is to give each set a unique appearance and aura as you enhance them - you know the sparkles/mist that is emanated when you have a set that grants a set-bonus.

In my mind, the most important thing is to grant the ability to create/craft/enhance/(whatever) a super-set. None of the current quest based sets are that good, even for their level. At this point, the two best sets in game are the Demonic and Crated. Because the drop rates in Nuri's is so low, the Demonic seems to be the elite set. While not quite at the same level as the Crafted, the Demonic is a terrific set, because for its level the Demonic is clearly superior and is even comparable to a set 5/6 levels higher. A new super-set should be so challenging to attain that it grants stats that are a little bit better/moderately better/substantially better than anything else for that level.

I know it may be sacrilegious to even think, let alone post, but I think that these items should not be attainable with Thrasher or other Elixirs. The COP is, in my humble opinion, one of the most epic items in game because it could only have been received through grinding - no 4X Thrasher runs, just a good group that would get together and grind through 100K kills. You know that when you find someone with the COP, they know how to play, and how to work as a group. This item was not granted because they kept throwing platinum at the game, but they learned the mechanics of the game and how to effectively work in a group to clear maps - making it, and the player wearing it truly Legendary.

[Floating]

I think 5% is pretty high, that would mean that you would get one in every 20 runs. Current pink rates arent even that high.

I think I wanted to write 0.5% XD Mistake XD

[Gluttony]

1% drop rate gives you ~63% chances over 100 attempts at getting the drop.

(one could extrapolate that Eli Holden in DL has a drop rate of 0.0001% therefore 0.01% over 100 tries :P)


Source: http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/01/13/drop-chance-probability/

Someone check my math and give me my rate.

8 runs every 4 hours (8*4=32)
There are 6 four hour periods in a day (32*6=192)
There are 28 days in a four week period (192*28=5,376)
Finally, I have 3 toons that have been exclusively doing this (5,376*3=16,128)
So, that is 16,128 runs that I have personally done to try to get Eli Holden to spawn.
Anyone care to guess what the drop rate is for him?

In Gluttony's dictionary there would be a picture of Eli Holden next to the definition of "too rare"... if he would only spawn for a photo op that is.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZvmgrclOL._SS500_.jpg

[StompArtist]

Someone check my math and give me my rate.

8 runs every 4 hours (8*4=32)
There are 6 four hour periods in a day (32*6=192)
There are 28 days in a four week period (192*28=5,376)
Finally, I have 3 toons that have been exclusively doing this (5,376*3=16,128)
So, that is 16,128 runs that I have personally done to try to get Eli Holden to spawn.
Anyone care to guess what the drop rate is for him?

In Gluttony's dictionary there would be a picture of Eli Holden next to the definition of "too rare"... if he would only spawn for a photo op that is.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZvmgrclOL._SS500_.jpg



According to this online calculator: There is a NaN percent chance of the item dropping in the given number of runs.

[Swimmingstar]

Someone check my math and give me my rate.

8 runs every 4 hours (8*4=32)
There are 6 four hour periods in a day (32*6=192)
There are 28 days in a four week period (192*28=5,376)
Finally, I have 3 toons that have been exclusively doing this (5,376*3=16,128)
So, that is 16,128 runs that I have personally done to try to get Eli Holden to spawn.
Anyone care to guess what the drop rate is for him?

In Gluttony's dictionary there would be a picture of Eli Holden next to the definition of "too rare"... if he would only spawn for a photo op that is.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZvmgrclOL._SS500_.jpg

Wow. Too rare. And who is Eli Holden? Lol...

[Cytokinesis]

Wow. Too rare. And who is Eli Holden? Lol...
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?58917-Eli-Holden

[Rauekat]

keep them as they are! but also won't the prices of the dragon vanity go down throughout time because they will become more popular?

[GoodSyntax]

Check the prices on the Demonic set in CS and tell me that prices go down after time.

On the contrary, prices (for Demonic at least) have gone up.

Other uber-rares like Vyxxnar have held, if not increased, in value.

The thing is, with drop rates so low, Demonic has become more valuable, because at this point, even the farmers have stopped trying to attain the drops. It's just too rare. Like I said in an earlier post, if you are merching and you look at revenues per game hour, Dragon and Demonic have absurdly low Return on Investment (return being CS price, investment being hours gaming to attain).

When new items, like the Dragon vanity, are announced, there is generally a surge of players trying to get them. This surge recedes quickly, especially with Humania due to come out soon, so in time, there will be fewer and fewer people farming for Dragon items, thus the increase in value.

[Engelhard]

I have killed right around 1000 bosses since update and have only seen one drop. It was a red helm but it did not drop on me. The super rareness of this item has drawn me back to playing alot more hoping I will hit the jackpot. (not everyone hits the jackpot or the jackpot stays small and wouldn't be much of a jackpot) I think it would be neat if there were more items put into the game at all levels similar to this to encourage farming at all maps because it would be like spinning a slot machine and you would always have a chance at hitting the jackpot no matter which machine you played on as long as you were playing somewhere. The items wouldn't be near as cool if everyone had them or were easy to get they would all just end up in stash somewhere of some merch that would have 100's of them controlling the price. Te way it is now when someone sees someone with a dragon vanity everyone is talking about it. Super super cool IMO I just hope more rare items are put in like this on other levels and like I said maybe even some for the old towns as well then we could start seeing more people that don all look the same. It's so cool when I hear someone in guild chat say I just got a dragon vanity. Even though it's not me it's like hearing my neighbor say I won the lottery. I know everyone isn't going to win but hearing someone say it or hearing about the winner on the news (or in cs) keeps me playing the next day for a hope that maybe the next day will be my day. I hope the rates stay the way they are and I hope I find one soon lol I have been farming like crazy lately Goo luck everyone an happy farming <(^_^)>v Engelhard

[IshoootU]

Guys what annoys me here so much is that the way you guys are talking,
You cannot handle a single thing that is hardcore.
Seriously.
It's just a freaking drop rate.
Quit complaining about it and go spend 10 hours a day like Farak does.
I believe it is FINE.
I can go and show you some rates on other games, and you know what?
The dedicated players in those other games farm a thousand more times more than I ever could have the patience for and they make an item with a drop rate like .0166 seem easy to farm.

I believe you guys just need to put some hardcore-ness on and just bear the grind.

I DO agree with Windwalker's idea.
Make Count Vlod have a higher drop rate.
He's way harder to kill for a party and he is rarely farmed compared to the first and second floors.

People dont care what annoys you. You tell people to quit complaining but you yourself complain so much.

The devs can do what they think is fair. I havent got any dragon drop but i aint crying. it will drop when it drops.

[MightyMicah]

Ok I wasn't gonna say anything more but I feel I have to now. (caps below are all for emphasis, not yelling.)

Whirlzap has made ALOT of sense. Why does everyone keep bashing him? IF the drop is going to be rare then Whirlzap is exactly right and, I believe, dead on about everything he has said. It's true the dragon gear hasn't been out all that long. If we were to add up all the hours that Farakseven has farmed, Im sure us more casual players could get the same amount of hours in, just spread out over more like a month or two. This thing is doable. You just gotta ask yourself "are you willing to put in the effort?" personally I'm not. I would rather keep merching and try and get as good as people like Evolt. Did we forget that these vanities can be bought? Get enough fang pinks and you can buy a dragon vanity...

Now. I believe where everyone is disagreeing with whirlzap is NOT with what he's saying, but RATHER with his whole opinion. He believes that the drop rate should be extremely rare. (We don't need another centurion vanity set.) while, personally, I don't believe they should be THAT rare, I at least respect his opinion and see all the logic in what he's saying. in other words, he makes his case perfectly. But his case is based on an opinion of his which I disagree with.

Sorry if I came off a bit harsh. I just hate seeing really smart people give an intelligent opinion and then get attacked for it by people who took less than 5 seconds to think of what to say. (I'm not thinking of anyone in particular. I'm just saying this generally speaking)
~MM

[Whirlzap]

People dont care what annoys you. You tell people to quit complaining but you yourself complain so much.

The devs can do what they think is fair. I havent got any dragon drop but i aint crying. it will drop when it drops.
Really? And who is the devs asking right now for their opinion?

Anyways, to respond to all of your opinions, I intentionally said, "You are not hardcore" to see what would happen.
I'll take this one reply to reply to all of your comments.

First of all, by hardcore I meant 10 hours a day, complete farming non-stop.
Of course only a VERY few do that.
I never did say I do that everyday, I only recall farming 10 complete hours only when new campaigns come out, and that's on weekends.
To clarify, I've also never gotten a Dragon Mystery drop as a looted item; I have merchanted several of them before though.

I want for people to easily be able to make gold and buy their sets.
Yet I also want something like a gold sink or some very lucky item that will instantly make you rich.
In other games, there is boss farming for drops that you sell to NPCs or liquidate. These bosses drop a lot of crap loot, around 20 items per kill.
People farm this dungeon over and over just for the boss to sell the gear, and it makes really fast in game currency for them.
Another game has dungeons that drop little items that can be used for crafting, but in very numerous amounts. These are special items that are used in many features of the game.
Because PL has none of these ways of making money, we can only focus on farming. Our pinks drop pretty frequently. However if we are looking to make a lot of gold at once, we will look to Mount Fang, especially hoping for a Dragon Vanity. If the drop rates are lowered, we will not have anywhere to look to for making fast gold.
Though the drop rates seem quite low, we can already see a lot of deflation going on in the CS. Dragon Vanities are already as low as 5mil or so within the first month of release.

Yet the other game that has seen these vanities before us is Star Legends. The first vanities, Mechanical Hat/X-Ray Visor were extremely rare. They were insanely high priced and still are today, yet drop in a campaign that is not the current cap one.
If we look at the next campaign, Slouch-O, you can see the vanities there have deflated prices compared to the Visors and etc.
Yet, after many new campaigns later, the Visor and Hat still have a high valued price.

I'm almost 100% sure STS will release more dropping vanities for Humania.

I understand the reason for you to bash on me. I intentionally made that post just to see what you would bash on me for.

I also noted that some people said they were not hardcore.
I'm going to tell you one thing. People have lives.
I bet only 1% of the PL population is made of players who are grown up, don't go to school/work and don't really do anything but play games all day.
Everyone has a life.
I have school and a job. I don't play PL all day.
I understand where you are. I even went inactive for a few months during my busy times in the year.
It's somewhere we all are.
Don't get me wrong.
But yet, I still think having something challenging, something very rare, something, that if dropped to you, will make your day, in this game would be okay.

[drewcapu]

People dont care what annoys you. You tell people to quit complaining but you yourself complain so much.

The devs can do what they think is fair. I havent got any dragon drop but i aint crying. it will drop when it drops.

Your post is confusing. It's like you're agreeing with Whirl and bashing him at the same time.

[McBain]

The drop rate for the vanities is fine. Some items should be super rare. I'd be in favor of tweaking the drop rates for pinks slightly. I'm not one to farm for hours on end, but in the process of leveling and just general playing of the game, like everyone else, I've done hundreds of runs in the Sewers, Nuri's, and Fang. I got two pink drops my whole time in the sewers, which seems about right. In Fang, I've seen a pink drop but never got one, and in Nuri's I've never even seen a pink drop. So the pink drops could be bumped a bit. I don't think that will affect too much, because you still have the crafted sets for those who are hardcore and willing to put the time in for the more unique stuff.

[IshoootU]

Your post is confusing. It's like you're agreeing with Whirl and bashing him at the same time.

I dont mind people sharing opinions. Thats what the forum is for. However, some people here just complains waaay to much. Do poeple care about their opinion, probably, do people care what annoys certain people, naah. see my point? Suggestions are fine, but when some players are asking the dev to adjust the game to benefit a certain few (e.g. themselves) , that is just selfish.

[Zeus]

I dont mind people sharing opinions. Thats what the forum is for. However, some people here just complains waaay to much. Do poeple care about their opinion, probably, do people care what annoys certain people, naah. see my point? Suggestions are fine, but when some players are asking the dev to adjust the game to benefit a certain few (e.g. themselves) , that is just selfish.

Just saying, either side of the argument is selfishness, so you can't really call one side selfish and not the other.

[McBain]

I dont mind people sharing opinions. Thats what the forum is for. However, some people here just complains waaay to much. Do poeple care about their opinion, probably, do people care what annoys certain people, naah. see my point? Suggestions are fine, but when some players are asking the dev to adjust the game to benefit a certain few (e.g. themselves) , that is just selfish.

Dude, a dev started this thread asking the question to begin with. That's what suggestions are: asking for something to change to benefit yourself and a need you have, in the hopes that others agree. There's nothing selfish about it. The question was asked, and people answered.

[IshoootU]

Dude, a dev started this thread asking the question to begin with. That's what suggestions are: asking for something to change to benefit yourself and a need you have, in the hopes that others agree. There's nothing selfish about it. The question was asked, and people answered.

no, its selfish if you ask for the benefit to be limited for you and your friends. instead of the benefit being good for all.

[Marrypoppins]

I say keep it really really tough to drop! Its great! It'd be stupid if they were in cs for like 500k or less. Super rare stuff keeps people playing, specially your veterans who have put fourth so much time, effort and money.. Gotta be elite items in my opinion. Dragon gear glyph ect...

[Shellkaz]

What sts needs to find is a balance that will keep ppl farming for it and being so totally discouraged about the drop rate that they consider it a waste of time and possibly plat. Right now I think it's a bit too low, however going forward, to web we all have a few more levels under our belts, and the bosses are easier, i can see that the farmers MIGHT come back. I wouldn't bet the farm on it though (pun intended) I think it could be tweaked a bit.

[Rare]

The people that don't think the drop rate should be raised..
A) Received a drop and doesn't want it to drop in rarity
B) Have not farmed for countless hours!
If you ask me, they should have a higher drop rate! It is absolutely crazy how long I have been farming and no luck! I was unlucky in Nuri's Hallows with 23 glyphs dropping in my group, none to me. But farming and only seeing one drop in my group is a little crazy...

Not questioning you or anything, but i haven't even seen a dragon item drop and I've farmed for many hours now. I think the rate is perfectly fine.

[Xionskull]

I havent seen a single one uv those dragon vanities drop, ever.

[razurblade]

the dragon piecs and lv 56 sets are uber rare

[LwMark]

keep the prices of dragons in the mills makes it more unique, we need unique stuff in game

[modredd]

So seven post pages later my question is when will the drop rate change? One week of farming havent seen one premium Nuri pink or Dragon piece.

[LwMark]

they need top change nuris but not dragon drop rates

iwanna see the l65 and l70 vanities and so one

maybe i should sell my dragon set an see what else that coming

[Zeus]

they need top change nuris but not dragon drop rates

iwanna see the l65 and l70 vanities and so one

maybe i should sell my dragon set an see what else that coming

That logic doesn't make sense. I'm guessing you're just saying that so your set can retain value? You got to pick one side or the other, buddy. You can't have your cake and eat it too. :/

[LwMark]

Im not complaining im saying that dragon items should stay valueable since it is dropped vanities and that they give stats..but i should maybe sell mine just to have money to see what other new vanities are out there instead of rushing for a dragon set....

And if your talkin about what i said about l56 items imo whats the point in having nuris if u cant get any glyph drops..i have not heard one oerson say they got a drop in a couple months. Theres obviously somethin wtong there.why make l56 so hard.but not 61 or 51 idk it just doesnt make sense to me.has devs evem said anythin bout y 56 so rare almost none?

Might as well bring back scaled farmin when the whole group had to be the level u wana drop it thrn i could see making sruff more rarr but then again this imo and probably makes no logic

[Psykopathic]

There should be some crazy rare items. But we just need alot more variety in gear and lots of interesting pets. Yay for more stuff

[miistic]

please make it where u can change ur crafted dragon piece back to normal

[LwMark]

please make it where u can change ur crafted dragon piece back to normal

Kinda like how i tried to put the chicken back in the egg

[LwMark]

No but really u guys killed it with dragons, everyone has it now. Should of kept the rates highhhh. Personally bymyself i got 3 drops alone from farmin with 4-7 days. Ik many peoppe who got 5-10 pieces their selves. U guys should of kept them rare. Only rare is black dragon, for the obvious reason they dont drop no more, i personally have about 15++ black dragon pieces BYMYSELF not including the sets i already crafted . but once i sell them an others sell their stashes. Everyone will craft them then were just like boringggg
You HAVE to do somethin like in AL with Mythic an Arcane items. So sad everyone cried about dragons being to rare and sts fell for it an raised the drop rate :/

You guys need to make a new vanity set to drop in PL, dragons are OFFICIALLY old an boring. Most people like myself already have ome of each color or even multiplesss.
Dragon pets are old, need somethin NEW, u guys made dragon pets for xmas with beards an hats -.- lol u guys should of just mase new pets instead of copy paste or however u guys do that :)
No but really time for vanity sets, dragons are blahhhhhhhh

[Chopper]

Wait, what? The dragon drop rate was raised? I certainly haven't seen that personally and ive been farming for a loooooong time with no dragon piece drops yet.

[Everyone'sFavMage]

Agreed with lwmark, dragon is way to underpriced now, drops to many. We need more vanity options.

[AvidLegend]

I think too rare is discouraging, especially for those who use platinum elixirs to farm.

It should be a balance between challenge and reward.

So, essentially, I think Dragon Drop rates should be bumped up, but still to the point where they are lower drop rate than the premium pinks but a noticeable increase in drop rate percentage.

Same thing goes for Nuri's drops IMO.

I also believe they should be bumped up because especially with all three sets being required for true legend achievement, you need like 25m that you throw away just to get. Very discouraging.

[Spyce]

They should be limited.
But again there's always the Dragon Vanites xD

[McBain]

Re: dragon vanities, it's hard to tell if drop rates have been increased or just lots of people are farming them. Maybe a little of both. Over the past couple months, with lots of people already capped, I've noticed that fang farming has jumped dramatically. Most times there are more 70+ games going in Fang than in Blacksmoke. And over those past couple months, naturally the dragon prices have plummeted. Obviously, more farmers = more of that item dropping = less rarity.

Then again, a couple weeks ago I was farming vamp feast on my alt and got 3 dragon drops in a matter of ten minutes. I've done a ton of farming there since then though and haven't seen any dragons drop to anyone. Who knows.

[LwMark]

Yes dragons were super rare for the longest when people were sellin 30-50+. I sold my blue for 25m an demonic set, thank god i did couppe days later they made it drop more , cs was flooded.

THEY NEED TO DO WHAT THEY ARE DOING IN ARCANE LEGENDS WITH MYTHIC AND ARCANE ITEMS!!!!!!!!!

[Everyone'sFavMage]

Which is what? And avid edit ur sig. It says I'm and avid player and it should say I'm an avid player.

[iRusher]

Make it like X-Ray's in SL, NOBODY would have it.

[Griffinfan]

There should be some crazy rare items. But we just need alot more variety in gear and lots of interesting pets. Yay for more stuff

Why Necro....

IB4L

[cookiez]

RARE!

[Extreme]

Yes dragons were super rare for the longest when people were sellin 30-50+. I sold my blue for 25m an demonic set, thank god i did couppe days later they made it drop more , cs was flooded.

THEY NEED TO DO WHAT THEY ARE DOING IN ARCANE LEGENDS WITH MYTHIC AND ARCANE ITEMS!!!!!!!!!

Agree , dragon drops too much not much longer will be 50k in price if this drop kept on going

[Chopper]

Agree , dragon drops too much not much longer will be 50k in price if this drop kept on going

that is in STS' best interest since they sell dragon packs at 500 plat per pop. If people have dragon items, they will be buying the matching dragon pets too.

[Extreme]

that is in STS' best interest since they sell dragon packs at 500 plat per pop. If people have dragon items, they will be buying the matching dragon pets too.

Yew got a point there ....

[McBain]

The dragon stuff jumped the shark when they transferred the stats into rings. They were only worth something when you needed them for the bonus stats, and the stats were different depending on the the set color. Nobody cares about them anymore because pretty much everyone has the ring, and you get the same ring/bonus regardless of set color anyway.

[Extreme]

The dragon stuff jumped the shark when they transferred the stats into rings. They were only worth something when you needed them for the bonus stats, and the stats were different depending on the the set color. Nobody cares about them anymore because pretty much everyone has the ring, and you get the same ring/bonus regardless of set color anyway.

Exactly..

[Rare]

Wait, what? The dragon drop rate was raised? I certainly haven't seen that personally and ive been farming for a loooooong time with no dragon piece drops yet.

Oh. Only if you're on a luck elixir :D

[wammm]

Dragons are easy to get now .. bring back the drop rate before to make it a lil bit challenging. Everyone now has dragons, it's not that VERY valuable for me. Please bring back former drop rate. Thankyouu