Anybody feeling OP? Bears are!

[Zeus]

Hey guys, Apollo here!

Soooo, just wanted to bring this quote to attention from our wonderful Samhayne! Sam, I thank thee for all that you do! It's truly amazing.



All of the skills are going to 9000!

Oh, I mean, will go to 7.


Does anybody get the meaning of this quote? You PvPers should especially understand.

DODGE = evading an attack completely.

Bears currently have 74-76 dodge. With the new stat increase, it should put them off at 80+ dodge with THE OUTDATED MT. FANG GEAR!

What does this mean for y'all PvPers? GL hitting that tank, even after roots.

Birds are also affected, just not as drastically, IMO.

Elves, with these new buffs in stats, the role of elves seemed to change from "The Support Class" to "The Everything Class".

Devs, I commend you for doing such a great job with Humania, but please take into consideration the possible consequences with skill raises. Dodge enhanced classes will be the ones effected the most, because their ability to completely avoid damage will increase.

Possible Consequences:

* You might see bears running around as gods in PvP.

* Bears have one skill to get in range, if you keep increasing dodge on birds, how are they ever expected to land that skill and get within range? It just contributes to the already unbalanced nature of PvP.

* As defensive buffs like evade and taunt increase, the need for 4x elixirs decreases. Why? Survivability increases without elixirs, so more players won't need to buy them except for the purposes of leveling, which can be detrimental to STS's business

* Elves running around hitting 600+ in PvP with one spell: Drain


Just some food for thought,

~Apollo

[Xazic]

Now that you put it like that: Ugh!

[Justinjspark]

So does that mean birds have the lower hand..... *AGAIN*

[Zeus]

Now that you put it like that: Ugh!

Ikr? Lol, I feel like the bad parts of the L50 cap is coming back, along with the good parts.

[Fredobasy]

Im a 65 bear with 40 dodge

[Zeus]

So does that mean birds have the lower hand..... *AGAIN*

Birds don't have the lower hand at all. If you know how to use them right, they can beat any class. Well, at least in Mt. Fang they could. We'll have to see for Humania.

Dodge based classes, IMO will get the most advantage with this skill raise.

[Walkhardd]

I thought the same thing when I heard.

I hope all the mages enjoyed the fang cap. Lol.

[Xazic]

I suppose STS could nerf the skills. Again. From the sounds of it, PvP is going to be a mess.

[Allfourkillz]

Hey guys, Apollo here!

Soooo, just wanted to bring this quote to attention from our wonderful Samhayne! Sam, I thank thee for all that you do! It's truly amazing.





Does anybody get the meaning of this quote? You PvPers should especially understand.

DODGE = evading an attack completely.

Bears currently have 74-76 dodge. With the new stat increase, it should put them off at 80+ dodge with THE OUTDATED MT. FANG GEAR!

What does this mean for y'all PvPers? GL hitting that tank, even after roots.

Birds are also affected, just not as drastically, IMO.

Elves, with these new buffs in stats, the role of elves seemed to change from "The Support Class" to "The Everything Class".

Devs, I commend you for doing such a great job with Humania, but please take into consideration the possible consequences with skill raises. Dodge enhanced classes will be the ones effected the most, because their ability to completely avoid damage will increase.

Possible Consequences:

* You might see bears running around as gods in PvP.

* Bears have one skill to get in range, if you keep increasing dodge on birds, how are they ever expected to land that skill and get within range? It just contributes to the already unbalanced nature of PvP.

* As defensive buffs like evade and taunt increase, the need for 4x elixirs decreases. Why? Survivability increases without elixirs, so more players won't need to buy them except for the purposes of leveling, which can be detrimental to STS's business

* Elves running around hitting 600+ in PvP with one spell: Drain


Just some food for thought,

~Apollo

But think about this...

The mages mana shield, drain life, might, vitality will also be raised.

The birds focus, shattering scream, evasion, break armor and blinding shot will also increase.

[Zeus]

Im a 65 bear with 40 dodge

Unbuffed, yes, but buff up and then we'll see. :P

[Justinjspark]

Wait so, to sum it up, bears will own at pvp, mages will have great damage but now they become *lower hand*, and birds get a little increase?

[Fredobasy]

Ok I went buffed and had 68

[Zeus]

But think about this...

The mages mana shield, drain life, might, vitality will also be raised.

The birds focus, shattering scream, evasion, break armor and blinding shot will also increase.

Exactly, but you did read my first point, right?

How is one supposed to land any of these skills as dodge based classes go ever closer to 100 percent? You'll have the advantage IF those skills land, but 20/100 chances of landing doesn't look too good to me.

@Walk, IKR? Lol, been waiting for a cap where birds and bears are dominant again. :P

[Zeus]

Ok I went buffed and had 68

Taunt stacks, use it twice, then check. Also, if you max dodge using the dodge face and dodge ring, you will see what I mean.

@Justin Pretty much. I'm just theorizing here though, looking at possible consequences.

[Fredobasy]

Ok I.hit.80

[Otukura]

What if the armor doubled and there was no dodge?

[Justinjspark]

Ugh, tho its great to see changes in pvp , mages had their turn,

[Zeus]

I suppose STS could nerf the skills. Again. From the sounds of it, PvP is going to be a mess.

Haha, I'm thinking the same thing. I'm guessing warbirds and bears will have the most advantage. :P


What if the armor doubled and there was no dodge?

Lol, then one can resort to using the old Mt. Fang gear. :)

And... Mages would again have another cap where they were dominant. ;)

[Whirlzap]

Hey guys, Apollo here!

Soooo, just wanted to bring this quote to attention from our wonderful Samhayne! Sam, I thank thee for all that you do! It's truly amazing.





Does anybody get the meaning of this quote? You PvPers should especially understand.

DODGE = evading an attack completely.

Bears currently have 74-76 dodge. With the new stat increase, it should put them off at 80+ dodge with THE OUTDATED MT. FANG GEAR!

What does this mean for y'all PvPers? GL hitting that tank, even after roots.

Birds are also affected, just not as drastically, IMO.

Elves, with these new buffs in stats, the role of elves seemed to change from "The Support Class" to "The Everything Class".

Devs, I commend you for doing such a great job with Humania, but please take into consideration the possible consequences with skill raises. Dodge enhanced classes will be the ones effected the most, because their ability to completely avoid damage will increase.

Possible Consequences:

* You might see bears running around as gods in PvP.

* Bears have one skill to get in range, if you keep increasing dodge on birds, how are they ever expected to land that skill and get within range? It just contributes to the already unbalanced nature of PvP. Target A

* As defensive buffs like evade and taunt increase, the need for 4x elixirs decreases. Why? Survivability increases without elixirs, so more players won't need to buy them except for the purposes of leveling, which can be detrimental to STS's business

* Elves running around hitting 600+ in PvP with one spell: Drain


Just some food for thought,

~Apollo

Target A:
Bears don't need to get into range for birds instantly.
As you said, they have enough Dodge to withstand the damage until a re-beckon.
Besides, if we gave them insane hit to be able to actually frequently land a beckon correctly, it's a 100% win for a good stun-lock bear>.>

Also usually only Staff mages can land over 600+ right now.
It's because Wand Mage has more crit, but takes the lower end for the awesome one-hitters.

Moreover, they should keep the high stats in PvE and only nerf in PvP.
I like being able to completely nuke Mount Fang on my 3x Daily.

[Whirlzap]

Wait so, to sum it up, bears will own at pvp, mages will have great damage but now they become *lower hand*, and birds get a little increase?

Birds were dominant during Sewer Cap, just saying.

[Whirlzap]

What if the armor doubled and there was no dodge?

Agh, triple post, but w/e.

Just to add on.

Armor means nothing to a nuke mage.

During sewers, bears had lower dodge, and they had really high armor as well.
Nuke mages like me didn't even have to heal much. As an Enchanted Staff Mage, a simple full-nuke combo as a bear would Beckon and drag me would end up taking most, if not all his HP.

Think of it this way.
Armor= a percentage of damage reduction, at around 50-60% for bears.
Dodge= 100% damage reduction.

At a lower extreme scale, armor works better than dodge.
At a higher extreme scale, dodge works exponentially better than armor.

[Zeus]

Agh, triple post, but w/e.

Just to add on.

Armor means nothing to a nuke mage.

During sewers, bears had lower dodge, and they had really high armor as well.
Nuke mages like me didn't even have to heal much. As an Enchanted Staff Mage, a simple full-nuke combo as a bear would Beckon and drag me would end up taking most, if not all his HP.

Think of it this way.
Armor= a percentage of damage reduction, at around 50-60% for bears.
Dodge= 100% damage reduction.

At a lower extreme scale, armor works better than dodge.
At a higher extreme scale, dodge works exponentially better than armor.

You're not taking into consideration of regeneration and debuffs.

If you double armor now, bears will have over 500 armor. Weapon damage doesn't even reach to that yet, so how do you expect to "nuke" them?

[Whirlzap]

Red damage orbs in Alien Underground, duh.

Sewer Age massive FFAs :P

[Ixillicus]

What if they are re-scaling the points so what you have for 6 points now, will take 7 after the update. So you can still achieve the same levels with your skills but... you can't have all of them maxed anymore.

If that were the case, it would mess with peoples twinks, but not really affect end-game PVP.

[Justinjspark]

What if they are re-scaling the points so what you have for 6 points now, will take 7 after the update. So you can still achieve the same levels with your skills but... you can't have all of them maxed anymore.

If that were the case, it would mess with peoples twinks, but not really affect end-game PVP.

I wouldnt like that, that just results in mages using "drain frost fire" and dead fried bird on the ground..... *AGAIN*

[Zeus]

What if they are re-scaling the points so what you have for 6 points now, will take 7 after the update. So you can still achieve the same levels with your skills but... you can't have all of them maxed anymore.

If that were the case, it would mess with peoples twinks, but not really affect end-game PVP.

That would definitely be an easy solution, but I don't think people would like the idea of going one step backwards, lol.

[Justinjspark]

@apollo hey u gonna do thrasher runs tomorrow? If yes may I please join?

[Physiologic]

At some point, whether it be Humania's release or another campaign release, skills will have to be completely revamped, especially for PvP since a linear increase in skills would really make PvP unfair(er). It would not make sense in PvP to have some classes be able to completely dodge attacks. I'd imagine they would do some inverse exponential increase to skills instead, having higher level skills to have less of an impact than lower level skills.

Or, have an automatic % debuff to attributes in PvP, i.e. dodge stat in PvP is decreased for all classes by 15-20%.

[Zeus]

At some point, whether it be Humania's release or another campaign release, skills will have to be completely revamped, especially for PvP since a linear increase in skills would really make PvP unfair(er). It would not make sense in PvP to have some classes be able to completely dodge attacks. I'd imagine they would do some inverse exponential increase to skills instead, having higher level skills to have less of an impact than lower level skills.

Or, have an automatic % debuff to attributes in PvP, i.e. dodge stat in PvP is decreased for all classes by 15-20%.

They'd need to lower a Mage's damage then too. It's really not fair that they can one combo any class. >.<

[Whirlzap]

Maybe they could just nerf critical, dodge, armor, damage, and hit all down respective balanced values.

[Justinjspark]

Maybe they could just nerf critical, dodge, armor, damage, and hit all down respective balanced values.
What is "Respective Values", in evey cap there seems to be a class that is favored, pvp will also be a mess when all values become equal

[Rare]

What if they are re-scaling the points so what you have for 6 points now, will take 7 after the update. So you can still achieve the same levels with your skills but... you can't have all of them maxed anymore.

If that were the case, it would mess with peoples twinks, but not really affect end-game PVP.

Why bother adding more skill points then? Maybe for future expansions I guess.

[Ixillicus]

Why bother adding more skill points then? Maybe for future expansions I guess.

The idea is that if you can't max everything, your build plays a strategy. Currently at end-game, everyone has the same builds, so we're only competing with our gear and combos. And since most people have the same gear (assuming same class) then really its the combo/style. Having to choose which skills you can max adds a level of strategy and creativity for team play. It's why twinking is a challenge, although most builds are similar there, now.

[wvhills]

I just took Sam's statement as him being funny. I didn't know it was a secret commentary on the future of Pvp. hehe.

I've just dabbled in pvp in PL and in my opinion it sucks. DL pvp is lots better because of many of the reasons apollo talked about. What makes DL pvp fun for me is the lengthy battles and strategies involved. I have 1250 health and weapon attacks do 62 damage, skills do anywhere from 60-200 so you can see it takes several attacks to be defeated. In PL a bird has 500 health and drain does 600 damage. Because of this PL pvp "battles" are over way to fast. Also, people with the best gear have a tremendous advantage over others. I've seen players in DL pvp have 38 damage (because of how they do their passive abilities plus not having plat weapons) compared to my 60 who have really good stats because of their skill level. I don't see that in PL pvp.

Imo, pl pvp can't be fixed. If u nerf any skills to rebalance pvp then pve will be impossible.

[Yich]

L2twinkbro^ come to low level for a better experience... Hehe... Seriously though, low level is a different kind of strategy then high level... If you know what you are doing you can succeed with gear that costs 1/10 the price of the pro gear... Plus there are hidden game mechanics in PL that alot of PVPers dont know about, good luck finding them. Dark lehends PVP is too easy.

[Windwaiker]

If skills are nerfed, the mobs will need to be nerfed too.

I like the idea of not being able to max every skill, because then you'll have to consider carefully which skills you really need. I think the lvl 7 skill cap will help, but maybe make all the skills have 10 ranks, but nerf them. The first 5 can be added in before level 65, and the last 5 can be added in after.

[Swimmingstar]

Mages are the everything class already IMO. With the bear's heavy armor and dodge and hp regen mages and birds will barely be able to hit their high damage. But birds could have a lot of dodge too. All bear dodge buffs added together currently add 28 dodge for birds it's 30 dodge. We'll just have to wait and see how it turns out.

[Silentarrow]

* As defensive buffs like evade and taunt increase, the need for 4x elixirs decreases. Why? Survivability increases without elixirs, so more players won't need to buy them except for the purposes of leveling, which can be detrimental to STS's business

Slow clap

[Moogerfooger]

All conjecture until the update comes out. Who's to say there isn't some sort of adjustment to the other classes' gear/skills to counter insane dodge, or skills nerfed like others have mentioned? Saying one class is going to be OP before anyone has seen it is silly....perhaps you fell into a vat of tasty mango mojitos???

I love all the guessing game threads that pop up before update, and most of them end up being wrong or not quite right.

[Zeus]

All conjecture until the update comes out. Who's to say there isn't some sort of adjustment to the other classes' gear/skills to counter insane dodge, or skills nerfed like others have mentioned? Saying one class is going to be OP before anyone has seen it is silly....perhaps you fell into a vat of tasty mango mojitos???

I love all the guessing game threads that pop up before update, and most of them end up being wrong or not quite right.

Lol, bro, like I said, forewarnings/theorizing. :)

[Matutd]

Who else likes Parth's dramatic thread names? :p

I agree with rob, DL pvp is much better. Plus without the whole "go" procedure, you can creep up on people, get the first attack etc. whereas pl is who has the better combo, that's it. Playstyle hardly varies in pl when every fight is run toward each other, mash skills, maybe kite a little. DL gives pvp more variety. And not only do you need a good combo in DL, you also need to know which skills to charge and when to charge them. Then there's gear. There isn't one endgame set, there's lots of different endgame items which allow for more customisation. Overall I have to agree that DL pvp is much more fun.

[Zeus]

Who else likes Parth's dramatic thread names? :p

I agree with rob, DL pvp is much better. Plus without the whole "go" procedure, you can creep up on people, get the first attack etc. whereas pl is who has the better combo, that's it. Playstyle hardly varies in pl when every fight is run toward each other, mash skills, maybe kite a little. DL gives pvp more variety. And not only do you need a good combo in DL, you also need to know which skills to charge and when to charge them. Then there's gear. There isn't one endgame set, there's lots of different endgame items which allow for more customisation. Overall I have to agree that DL pvp is much more fun.


People are more likely to read a dramatic thread vs a monotone one with no emotion.

That's why I do it, lol. Both of them deliver the facts, just one gets more input than the other.

[Moogerfooger]

People are more likely to read a dramatic thread vs a monotone one with no emotion.

That's why I do it, lol. Both of them deliver the facts, just one gets more input than the other.

So you're saying it's okay to cry wolf/be dramatic in order to get more people to read a thread?

/forumqualitydown :D

[Phoenixking]

So you're saying it's okay to cry wolf/be dramatic in order to get more people to read a thread?

/forumqualitydown :D
Listen to a news reporter or those shows that talk about famous people. Same thing in real life

I hope this update doesn't nerf intbirds... That's what I'm worried about the most

[Buffedbear Pl]

What if the gear goes back to having their own respective stats instead of being all balanced out like they are now?

Example:

STR stuff = armor, h/s
DEX stuff = hit, crit, dodge
INT stuff = m/s and stuff

You know that stuff.

[KingFu]

Listen to a news reporter or those shows that talk about famous people. Same thing in real life

I hope this update doesn't nerf intbirds... That's what I'm worried about the most

There's nothing to nerf, lol. I've been dissapointed with the bears stats since I saw crafted orlok set. 60 or so crit, 75 Ish dodge, 250 (?) some armor, and not to mention the proc from the sword. Bear vs Bear has become 95% luck. Who will dodge what, who will crit this, who gets sword proc off [first]. I really hope there's a major stat rebalance like there was in AO2, after that, literally every spec stood a fighting chance, and skill overcame gear/spec. Int bears could beat a pally, dex Mage could destroy a war bird, it didn't really matter. Now, it's all cookie cutter builds and spec. Everyone is almost identicle. Heck, bird vs bird has literally become 2-3 arrows, and then done, it shouldn't be that way.

[Matutd]

People are more likely to read a dramatic thread vs a monotone one with no emotion.

That's why I do it, lol. Both of them deliver the facts, just one gets more input than the other.
I wasn't saying they were stupid, and I know exactly why you do it. I just think they're funny xP

[Jugernugetx]

Whats new about the title? They were always overpowered...

[NotYoCookiez]

Blah. I'll still be the king of pvp with my wittle birdie :3

[Jcyee]

Lol bears cud have uber dodge and armor, birds with uber dps and crit, mages with uber crit. Everything is gonna b uber high lol

[Mothwing]

Wait, I thought bears were already OP. Why do they get all the st00f?! :(

[Kixxler]

This will change everything in low level PvP. Excited to see how people will change their builds!
EDIT: Never mind, just read the announcement thread. I really am clueless.

[crestmage]

Wow lol this is gonna be fun for mages. :D I'm sooo looking forward to new expansion!

[Elyseon]

So saying taunt gets an extra dodge with rank 7
And evade gets 2 more
That will bring the dodge buff for bears to +32 dodge

Birds would still continue the jump by 5 presumably to +35

Although what's to say the dodge from gear is too increase from fang to humania, the royal sewer/fury mix had more dodge than glyph

And really I don't think mages have much to worry about as they keep narrowing the armour gap between tanks and nukes, who know maybe mages will have more armour than tanks now

Although I agree pvp is becoming a bit overpowered, I think if the birds evade instead of increasing dodge increased the small armour buff birds have that would help, because really a bird is stranded out there with very little solid support, a crit and hit buff, the hit which is already far over 100% and the crit still not giving a ridiculous promise like the mages 60% buff, then to defend the bird gets 30 dodge. So basically their survival vs is luck, a bear can easily beckon and stomp them, and kill, and a Mage can go as much as drain+auto to kill them

[Otukura]

What if the armor doubled and there was no dodge?

Agh, triple post, but w/e.

Just to add on.

Armor means nothing to a nuke mage.

During sewers, bears had lower dodge, and they had really high armor as well.
Nuke mages like me didn't even have to heal much. As an Enchanted Staff Mage, a simple full-nuke combo as a bear would Beckon and drag me would end up taking most, if not all his HP.

Think of it this way.
Armor= a percentage of damage reduction, at around 50-60% for bears.
Dodge= 100% damage reduction.

At a lower extreme scale, armor works better than dodge.
At a higher extreme scale, dodge works exponentially better than armor.

At 800 armor, you cant deny that youd only take 5-6 hp per attack.

[Elyseon]

How about lighten up the dodge gear and add some health? Get bears over 1000 health finally