Class balance

[championboost]

Can we all agree that Rogue is the weakest class rn

Less Single Target damage than warriors and mages
doesnt have any shield ability
no good ultimate
area damage is horrible
look at elite vardan gates how warriors and mages get 1Million Score and rogues with best gear struggle already at 30k points because they dont have enough single target damage.....
1 rogue with maxed gear is weaker than a mage with myth staff


Im making this post now because there wont be any new gear for a whole year and it cant stay like this.
I agree that mages deserve to be the strongest class after being worse than the other classes for years
but Rogues need a buff because the difference between the classes is just too big

and now garlic pet got added which buffs warriors and mages even more and the crit from garlic is useless for rogues because they already have 100% + crit

Solution: Increase proc duration of Pisces Daggers by 1-2 seconds and buff bows proc damage by 5-15%
Like this mages will still be by far the best class and wars will still be 2nd best class but rogues wouldnt be at least be that far behind anymore

[Yoloswagx]

pisces problem is its proc rate, and i can agree marianos needs some damage buff..

All myth is inferior to myth staff because of how their proc works

Their idea to make something special like special charged attack to proc the wep is jus the downfall of the wep...making it much worse than a lvl81 legendary wep since its so difficult to proc.

I mean sure u can make myth wep interesting to proc it but u shud also take note on how the proc rate is going to be..

imagine myth staff, im using skratch gun not procing anything but im jus spraying damage over time with my clock and fireball on large groups of mobs then i jus swap to the staff, it procs instantly

On the other hand, pisces charged attack on mobs for 20 times with no proc only leading to them dying from the mob group.... Omg pisces proc is op...u can survive everything x20 armor n x20 hp...but...can u proc it tho??


Eitherway, im pretty sure theyr going to ignore myth wep...n jus release that new arcane n make the proc rate much much worse becuz thats what they refer to "creativity"



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[championboost]

I agree , it doesnt make sense how some myths proc.
You are right they could also buff the proc rate of pisces. It doesnt make sense how u charge attack so often and dont proc and then die

[will0]

there are no class balance in this game each season have its own problem for different class.. rotating being "support" class

[snakeeyes]

Buffs the skills (razor shield, smoke bomb and trap) change the ultimate skill of rogue.

[terapan]

The chance of Pisces proc is horriable. 5 Times charge attack on mobs and i nearly die still no proc xD

I dunno how to triggering its proc. On white papper, if we do charge attack on 5+ mobs chance to proc must be increase by count but nope. I am give up. I me back be good and nice mage.

[championboost]

The chance of Pisces proc is horriable. 5 Times charge attack on mobs and i nearly die still no proc xD

I dunno how to triggering its proc. On white papper, if we do charge attack on 5+ mobs chance to proc must be increase by count but nope. I am give up. I me back be good and nice mage.

YES EXACTLY! sometimes u charge attack 10-20 times and no proc and u die already after like a few charge attacks

[Alome]

The way I see it, the Rogue is a lot better than War rn. It has better wave clear/Better in pvp/ Has myth weaps that is individually for boss and mobs.
Don't blame it Pisces because of bad rng. I've seen pisces proc after just 1-2 charge atk quite often.
Also because pisces has a buff proc, its supposed to have a cooldown. Who knows Ur trying hard to proc pisces when the proc is on cd.

[Yoloswagx]

The way I see it, the Rogue is a lot better than War rn. It has better wave clear/Better in pvp/ Has myth weaps that is individually for boss and mobs.
Don't blame it Pisces because of bad rng. I've seen pisces proc after just 1-2 charge atk quite often.
Also because pisces has a buff proc, its supposed to have a cooldown. Who knows Ur trying hard to proc pisces when the proc is on cd.yep thats super true

Rogue can survive any shots in zodias map jus like how war is rn

Heres the thing tho, war is still super steady even without any proc, and rogue needs the proc to survive. In mages case, they could survive the hits becuz they can proc the staff vry easily.

War is still healthy in zodias map even if they try to proc polaris, Rogue will die in a mere seconds if they don proc their pisces.

Rogue can only have 2-3 second to proc their weapon or else mobs will jus kill them in seconds...no razor shield can save them from it...

Oh yea maybe i can jus spam glowstik AA every 5 seconds to survive right?nope...

I totally agree with how Rogue dominates War in Pve.

You said rogue try to chain pisces proc and thats y pisces doesnt proc due to cd?Nah...thing is pisces will nvr proc and its the hardest weapon to proc among all other myth becuz of its charged attack mechanic...jus imagine ur polaris having ur stage 1 to change to charged attack, u wont like it either..







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[Inozuke]

say thanks to the content creators and those who are envious of the rogues or who knows why they did that but they did their best to nerf us everything and once it happened they didn't ask for balance anymore they just accepted what happened (broken weapons and since it no longer affected them, they shut up
and on top of all the administrators do nothing to give us our roll, we are mainly damage and we are in the worst classification to cause damage, what a sad disappointment)

[Repent]

honestly i’ve been more than disappointed with the 81 mythics and that’s for every class (mage gun, staff is fine).

our main class weps should have been worked similar to the staff proc the rng doesn’t require skill i mean it’s totally random if we are getting our proc or not and most of the time we die or get stunned before we can proc. at least these were my issues as a war and it seems like rogues are paper compared to wars at least is what the op is saying.

@inozuke welcome to how us wars feel when we were nerfed with no heads up even though proc stacking was a thing for years. my bad a “problem for years” according to devs.

[Aldous]

Rogues are no longer needed pretty much in everything these days, anyone who says otherwise is either looking at it from a very biased standpoint or just simply wants rogues to remain inferior for selfish reasons.

Mythic Warrior/Sorc parties can clear dungeons faster now especially with the help of %haste but mainly their weapon's proc design. Meanwhile rogues are stuck with these underwhelming weapons, heck we can barely scratch anything with Marianos' proc, not to mention we can only do "hUgE" (if you can call it that) damage [emoji92]twice[emoji92] upon its activation. Oh boy don't even get me started with Pisces..... that thing just never procs. Don't get me wrong, I don't want anything nerfed for other classes.. ya'll got power, good for you [emoji5] BUT WE DEMAND EQUALITY.

[Alome]

yep thats super true

Rogue can survive any shots in zodias map jus like how war is rn

Heres the thing tho, war is still super steady even without any proc, and rogue needs the proc to survive. In mages case, they could survive the hits becuz they can proc the staff vry easily.

War is still healthy in zodias map even if they try to proc polaris, Rogue will die in a mere seconds if they don proc their pisces.

Rogue can only have 2-3 second to proc their weapon or else mobs will jus kill them in seconds...no razor shield can save them from it...

Oh yea maybe i can jus spam glowstik AA every 5 seconds to survive right?nope...

I totally agree with how Rogue dominates War in Pve.

You said rogue try to chain pisces proc and thats y pisces doesnt proc due to cd?Nah...thing is pisces will nvr proc and its the hardest weapon to proc among all other myth becuz of its charged attack mechanic...jus imagine ur polaris having ur stage 1 to change to charged attack, u wont like it either..







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On zodia map, what kills you is the armor and health debuff which comes from the pool of them slimes. You can just run and agro the mobs.
Its not like you can just stand there and try to proc pisces to survive. As far as I know, Rogues don't have any issues surviving on Zodia maps at all, so long as you dont pull 20 or so mobs then just stand on one spot trying to proc pisces.

[memphis]

Also I like how in all hard maps its now 3 mages 1 war and no rogues are welcome
for example Elite vardan gates
+ Ive seen mages delte rogues from their friendlist because they are not "mages"

[Alome]

Also I like how in all hard maps its now 3 mages 1 war and no rogues are welcome
for example Elite vardan gates
+ Ive seen mages delte rogues from their friendlist because they are not "mages"

who runs elite vardan gates nowadays?
except for lb.

[Encryptions]

say thanks to the content creators

Imagine trying to blame people for making videos when the devs don't watch any yt vids about AL. 99% of videos made about AL got nothing about nerfing rog.
Btw the thread maker is a content creator himself. Sooo... Yeah...
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[Deathlyreaper]

I think if sts releases mythic or arcane weapons that lasts for months the way to activate the procs should be consistent. Since each class has 2 weapons, why not make it so one weapon procs on basic attack (and gives a huge buff) while the other procs dmg dealt (and gives a lesser buff). This way players can choose whether they want a weapon that’s op but relies on chance, or sacrifice a bit of dmg for a weapon that provides control and is consistent. Players can choose and develop their own play styles based on these options. It’s a lot better than forcing an rng playstyle in classes.

[Naaabmage]

who runs elite vardan gates nowadays?
except for lb.

Seasonals run for aps too haha

[Kystone]

just switch to mage like me

[garni]

idk why everyone complainging bout rouge being "BAD" rouges ware OP for a lot of the time and they still are just know the gear better... im a mage w mythic staff and gun and how many times i died cuz my staff wuldnt proc or gun proc on boss was so late rouge already killed it everyone looking bout procs warrior w mythic lvl 81 aegis can almost 1 shot orick and top fastes time for infested swamp is by SOLO ROUGE 1.9 sec ??!?! if u running only mythic daggers and end set w bd on mobs ofc u will die faster + rouges have dodge they dodge so many attack its incradible try to go in 10 mobs w mage and not using shield :D and then tell me every class have GOOD stuff bout them and BAD u cant make perfect class cuz then you kill every other class most of the ppl complaining bout rouge being weak and not fair etc... i think u never played any other game u never read anything every class is equaly op on max stats if u have 2k+ stats everything will be easy.
i have BD set on mage and i can only kill bosses any harder map ill die to mobs in 3 sec if i had stats build or tanky it wuld be diffrent i wuld strugle w bosses and i culd tank mobs...

TLDR: stop compaining try diffrent builds and pets :pirate:

[garni]

Just saw a rouge 1 shot orick :D using mythic bow proc then dug daggers and armor proc idk if its intended but i want it to stay in game

[Encryptions]

m a mage w mythic staff and gun and how many times i died cuz my staff wuldnt proc

What I did about this issue is I made a loadout on my mage for pure defense, profiteer pendant with armor awakes, killing ring 7% str, you can use profiteer ring, str force aa armor awakes, and lv 81 warrior belt armor awakes. Just use the lv 81 staff on the defense loadout, when it procs switch to damage loadout.

[Yoloswagx]

Rogues are no longer needed pretty much in everything these days, anyone who says otherwise is either looking at it from a very biased standpoint or just simply wants rogues to remain inferior for selfish reasons.

Mythic Warrior/Sorc parties can clear dungeons faster now especially with the help of %haste but mainly their weapon's proc design. Meanwhile rogues are stuck with these underwhelming weapons, heck we can barely scratch anything with Marianos' proc, not to mention we can only do "hUgE" (if you can call it that) damage [emoji92]twice[emoji92] upon its activation. Oh boy don't even get me started with Pisces..... that thing just never procs. Don't get me wrong, I don't want anything nerfed for other classes.. ya'll got power, good for you [emoji5] BUT WE DEMAND EQUALITY.Lets be real, Rogue is alrdy dead since 71 cap with the ultimate got released, many complained about how useless the ultimate is..

Thats like 3years??I mean lets not get our hopes up, All rogue main should jus swap to another class or jus quit the game....rogue wont get fix like ever...

Like legit, we don need any nerf to another class, We just a need a buff that equalises our strength so that it could be up to par so it will feel needed to a party doing some activities

For example, Evg...u need mob clear?mage got it and also boss damage....oh wait u need emergency red button to clear mobs and bosses?war got it eith x6 strength...

What can rogue even do?..oh yea shadow pierce into the mobs and try to proc pisces that will nvr proc..and DIE.....or even proc marianos dat jus tickles the boss

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[Stephencobear]

try to go in 10 mobs w mage and not using shield :D

I do that all the time, only maps I used shield was evg & rabakor
Knockdown stun freeze- those are my shield

[Aldous]

idk why everyone complainging bout rouge being "BAD" rouges ware OP for a lot of the time and they still are just know the gear better... im a mage w mythic staff and gun and how many times i died cuz my staff wuldnt proc or gun proc on boss was so late rouge already killed it everyone looking bout procs warrior w mythic lvl 81 aegis can almost 1 shot orick and top fastes time for infested swamp is by SOLO ROUGE 1.9 sec ??!?! if u running only mythic daggers and end set w bd on mobs ofc u will die faster + rouges have dodge they dodge so many attack its incradible try to go in 10 mobs w mage and not using shield :D and then tell me every class have GOOD stuff bout them and BAD u cant make perfect class cuz then you kill every other class most of the ppl complaining bout rouge being weak and not fair etc... i think u never played any other game u never read anything every class is equaly op on max stats if u have 2k+ stats everything will be easy.
i have BD set on mage and i can only kill bosses any harder map ill die to mobs in 3 sec if i had stats build or tanky it wuld be diffrent i wuld strugle w bosses and i culd tank mobs...

TLDR: stop compaining try diffrent builds and pets :pirate:

I'm gonna have to disagree with you Garni, respectfully. Infested/Hydra Leaderboards are a different story, it does not just rely on your proc but also consists of "strategies" that has something to do with your ultimate. You were a rogue before, you should know that our %dodge is useless most of the time for high-end maps as its consistency seems to scale to the level of the mobs/bosses you're fighting. Try conducting an experiment about %dodge in Brackenridge/any low-end maps vs. Timekeeper's Crypt/Zodias and see the results for yourself. One last thing, if you really believe that rogues are still overpowered, then why are you a [emoji92]sorcerer[emoji92] now? [emoji5]

[Kystone]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you Garni, respectfully. Infested/Hydra Leaderboards are a different story, it does not just rely on your proc but also consists of "strategies" that has something to do with your ultimate. You were a rogue before, you should know that our %dodge is useless most of the time for high-end maps as its consistency seems to scale to the level of the mobs/bosses you're fighting. Try conducting an experiment about %dodge in Brackenridge/any low-end maps vs. Timekeeper's Crypt/Zodias and see the results for yourself. One last thing, if you really believe that rogues are still overpowered, then why are you a [emoji92]sorcerer[emoji92] now? [emoji5]

Say u don’t know hydra/inf without saying u don’t know hydra/inf

[Aldous]

Say u don’t know hydra/inf without saying u don’t know hydra/infWasn't that the case? Oh well, the more you know.. but that's besides the point of this thread. Nonetheless, rogue weapons still need some buff to make rogs relevant again. [emoji5]

[Susanne]

I've always played rogue and have tried mage. In fact I capped my mage specifically because it seems better than rogue now.
I just can't get to like being mage, so that was a waste of time I'll never get back.
There are a few things that need tweaking on rogue class, the main one is ultimate skill, actually all the skills could do with a makeover.
For instance, why is aimed shot so called? It's not a very good name for something that shoots barrels, carts and anything else except the thing it's aiming at. Shadow Storm Shot takes too long and the others are outdated apart from razor.
The ultimates, well I think everyone knows how bad they are.
The mythics, you either loathe them or like them, depends on whether you need to offload them in auction.
The bow is the worse out of the two but we do need both for expansion... apparently.
Someone thinks rogues make more gold than the other two classes because forever rogues have been the most expensive class.
I don't hate the other two classes, some of my best friends.....
Anyway, please take a look at rogues and have a bit of compassion. Just because we look snooty and mean is no excuse for giving us grief, bad vanities and not really very good weapons. Especially the bow. I was really looking forward to having a good bow. 🏹

[Inozuke]

Imagine trying to blame people for making videos when the devs don't watch any yt vids about AL. 99% of videos made about AL got nothing about nerfing rog.
Btw the thread maker is a content creator himself. Sooo... Yeah...
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you were the most annoying of all who wanted to ruin the rogue when the update started and for your 800 complaints and more fools who do not understand that the rogue is a roll of damage, he screwed us and now they don't even try to give us a buff or anything, nor indispensable we are in pve field,
(content creators... but toxic like you who only speak for their benefit)

[Encryptions]

you were the most annoying of all who wanted to ruin the rogue when the update started and for your 800 complaints and more fools who do not understand that the rogue is a roll of damage, he screwed us and now they don't even try to give us a buff or anything, nor indispensable we are in pve field,
(content creators... but toxic like you who only speak for their benefit)

Atleast what I said was in more infavor on the community's opinion than what you were saying to people. Atleast I tried to fix the classes by giving suggestions; not go around harassing threads people made. Atleast I know how to play the rogue class correctly. Atleast I had a stand point of my personal opinion from a perspective of rog with a 2k+ dex stat in which many people favored. Atleast I am not falsely accusing a small group of random people who have no power over what happens to the game over stuff that happens to the game.
You target the wrong people for the wrong reasons; I am on the side of fixing all classes btw. You insult people and falsely accuse them. You have literally a main dex stat of 1500 in game and call your self the best rogue. You don't test stuff out in the game to know how op things can be.
I'am being direct here, I am pointing out what you are not comprehending, I can explain things to people but I physically / mentally can not make people understand the things I have said.

I already know rogue needs fixed (even said in my latest videos at some points), people need to stop lying saying warrior better than rogue. Right now its Mage > Rogue > Warrior. Saying a class is better than another will not do anything. I do not benefit from other classes being worse, I do not lose anything in other classes being worse. I can switch class at any time, not many can do that. So I am here posting explaining things to people, but people do not want to take the time to understand.

[Kystone]

I wonder if ppl have tried aiming with their aimed shot, might actually hit something

[snakeeyes]

as a rogue i agree to encryption and he is right we need to learn from each other, i knew many player here learn because of his hardwork to make a video of test damage and strategy, same as i learn from him, but the class balance for me is not mage>rogue>warior, for me this mage>warrior=rogue, war for boss and rogue for mobs, dev actually did the right thing to make class unite.

[snakeeyes]

the only problem here is us as a player, we want to have all the power and op'ness, we are greedy to have a power that we dont have because we are not satisfied, and in the end we blame the dev/creator because why the other class have this but the other have not, but the truth we need to thank sts because they are doing their job to make us enjoy the game. no hate remember what dev say we are family here.. XD

[Alome]

Devs trying to encourage teamwork while players whine for the so called balanced class so they can solo play any map.

Here is a new perspective.

Mage cant solo because mage will die easily (4.7k armor on myth set xD) despite the op mob clear and decent boss damage
Rog Can both clear mobs, deal a decent amount of damage to bosses, but lacks the damage to solo kill bosses.
also pisces fails quite often lel...but the raw 20k damage is underestimated.
War is quite op on single target damage...but lacks mob clear potential, trash on pvp against rogues but is basically immortal because of the high haste(45% haste with max mastery on jug and horn).

Overall each class have their flaws... mages seem perfect now but they will cry once elite zodia comes.

[Susanne]

the only problem here is us as a player, we want to have all the power and op'ness, we are greedy to have a power that we dont have because we are not satisfied, and in the end we blame the dev/creator because why the other class have this but the other have not, but the truth we need to thank sts because they are doing their job to make us enjoy the game. no hate remember what dev say we are family here.. XD

Yes, you are right but I do wish the mythic weapons for rogue didn't feel so, how can I put it.. complicated.
I have never liked using daggers and someone kindly loaned me theirs and patiently tried to show me how to use them.
I just couldn't get the hang of it. I managed to proc the things three times in expansion map and twice at the wrong time.
It's frustrating. So maybe it's my fault as I have seen other rogues do just fine with them.
I shan't buy any because I hate the charge proc.
I'm not against anyone, whatever class getting on with their gears, I just wish I could.
P.S. I did give the daggers back and thankyou to my friend, you know who you are. ��

[Controlf]

[emoji1531]

[Sulphurea]

Makes me laugh how yall still debating on what class is the best etc lol we can repeat till our death that rogue class is simply useless atm and damage of bow or dagg is just unexistent compared to other mythics and that dagg are bugged blablabla the only one thing is that none of this will be listened or investigated into. I posted a thread about pisces bugg idk how long ago and got completely ignored. I just gave up on giving any opinion or help to improve the game, cause the one truth that results is they don't really care of loyal players. I talk as a rogue with mythic set 81, both mythic weapons, outlaw pendant, arcane arti 76, prof ring, i hit 12k + damage with yinshe hb and arcanite ww aa and still compared to a mage with leg set 3/6 and a mythic gun i'm useless

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[Corviss the Lich]

doesnt have any shield ability
no good ultimate
area damage is horrible



are you sure you are talking about rogues?
-shouldn't deal with hordes of mobs and deal a lot of AoE damage compared to Mages and Warriors which is fine
-No shield ability???????????????????????????????????
-ok, so Ultimate Aimed Shot is a bad single target damage I guess. also what is that ultimate that really helps a lot of people without speed set to run faster? huh might be my imagination.

I agree that Pisces have a really bad proc rate and frustrating at most times, I would rather have a buff to proc chance than proc duration. Expansion isn't done yet I believe, Elite Zodias is about to come out soon with Arcane 81(or 86?) Gears I'm expecting more things not just for Rogues, other classes as well, hopefully we get the right treatment for each classes with those Gears, on the other hand if that's the case it will be crazy expensive (in it's early release ofc) hopefully we get access to Arcane Gears via town npc like festerfang with their Arcane Rings and Pendants.

[Sulphurea]

Are you really comparing razor shield to mage shield? This is hilarious. Just yesterday i was in a pt in rahab, us rogues cleaning mobs with pisces and mages killing rahab, is this how should be? We have no ability good to deal mobs, no clock, no freeze, no shield. By curiosity, you ever tried to clear zodias map 3 as rogue and as mage? Go there and you will see the difference, takes me good 15/20 min, not cause i die but cause i have absolutely no "weapons" against dmg reflection of mobs, beside some pet aa that in any case don't last long. For mages that map is a joke lol

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[snakeeyes]

i do aggre that rogue mythic bow proc damage of rog is only 20-30% damage of 100% sword and gun proc damage damage, bow is realy bad on zodias boss, gun and sword can half the life of rahab in a seconds while bow i think need to proc 20x to half the life fo rahab i think its about 2-3 mins to half the life with full elix, same as the dagger need to proc 30x solo but rogue will die after the pool puts on the ground, but i see wariors problem too on sunken fleet cannot solo the map fast because its too weak on mob clearing while rog can finish the map without swithing gl 4-5mins using pisces with farm deaths because the nemo fish have a high critical damage, pisces is ok but the bow we all know its a single target and a boss killer cant do anything to all the boss in zodias? as i can see mage is on the top without a problem on damage and clearing.

[snakeeyes]

another bow problem if you successfully debuffs the target boss with debuffs water and the mobs block the target its a total waste of charge same as 2 rog proc together and charge together using marianos its a total charge waste too. please devs need to fix marianos proc.

[Susanne]

Are you really comparing razor shield to mage shield? This is hilarious. Just yesterday i was in a pt in rahab, us rogues cleaning mobs with pisces and mages killing rahab, is this how should be? We have no ability good to deal mobs, no clock, no freeze, no shield. By curiosity, you ever tried to clear zodias map 3 as rogue and as mage? Go there and you will see the difference, takes me good 15/20 min, not cause i die but cause i have absolutely no "weapons" against dmg reflection of mobs, beside some pet aa that in any case don't last long. For mages that map is a joke lol

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Thankyou! There I was blaming myself, becoming almost apologetic because I believed it was my fault I wasn't fast enough.

[Sulphurea]

Thankyou! There I was blaming myself, becoming almost apologetic because I believed it was my fault I wasn't fast enough.Nah. I do clear solo but out of choice, cause i bring my alts for getting the quests with them, so i simply ask a friend to hold map and invite me. But as rogue is really long cause first you need deal with bomb mob (that mages and wars can deal np), then all the dmg reflection, so u can't try to proc until is over. Or u can use nekro or breeze and pray to proc and kill all in the aa time range. The dmg applied both by bow and dagg is simply... No comment, that's it. Mage with gun can easy solo it np, same for war. So yeah i don't even care anymore, i log to waste some time and i don't really put effort like before

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[Yoloswagx]

Some1 should jus close this thread cuz they wont do nothing about rogue...


Oh yea but go fix polaris...

+1 for that fix

+1 for ignoring the op maria and pisces proc


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[codered]

I survive the worst year as rogue in mausoleum, i can survive this also, i guess.

[Alome]

i do aggre that rogue mythic bow proc damage of rog is only 20-30% damage of 100% sword and gun proc damage damage, bow is realy bad on zodias boss, gun and sword can half the life of rahab in a seconds while bow i think need to proc 20x to half the life fo rahab i think its about 2-3 mins to half the life with full elix, same as the dagger need to proc 30x solo but rogue will die after the pool puts on the ground, but i see wariors problem too on sunken fleet cannot solo the map fast because its too weak on mob clearing while rog can finish the map without swithing gl 4-5mins using pisces with farm deaths because the nemo fish have a high critical damage, pisces is ok but the bow we all know its a single target and a boss killer cant do anything to all the boss in zodias? as i can see mage is on the top without a problem on damage and clearing.

This is a bit false...I saw Rahabcor getting to 40%hp in 2 Marianos Procs (charge atks) . This was myth set and not Marianos+sunk arm proc