i'm getting aggravated with humanian scatterbears, help!

[wvhills]

Hey guys,
I'm mainly playing DL now but want to keep at least my bird at level cap in PL so I jump in there from time to time. Unfortunately, I'm finding humania to be unplayable because of the excessive scattering. Bears fling mobs around randomly and mages like firestorming the mobs away also. This coupled with the extra long lengths of the maps (and the amount of walking required) makes doing runs really aggravating for me. I haven't timed them but it seems to me that each run in humania takes at least twice as long as the other campaigns.

Any advice? How do you guys deal with these issues. For that matter, are they issues for you guys or do you not mind playing like this (i.e. slow, lol). I already know all the noob stuff like host ur own game, invite pro bears, etc. but honestly, there aren't that many good bears out there that play the same times I do. Plus, with humania's wide open spaces the mages and their firestorm are almost as big an issue as the bears.

I'd really love to keep playing PL but I can't grind in humania like I could in fang, sewers, ao, etc. After 2 or 3 runs I end up getting fed up and going back to DL to pvp.

Help!

[LADYHADASSA]

I have run these maps all in 2-3 min, ask your tanks to tank to the right or left and have the rest follow the tank, this is what tanks are for... When done proper the mobs gather quick.

Make your own games make your requests if somone can not play as a team dont have them in your next map, once you get a good team pass word keep pw simple! And go fast rm and play.

Also ask you mages to snow fire tword the tank! :) most that have exp, should know this but if not teachnpeeps to be better pve players :)

[NotYoCookiez]

You dont even need bears in Humania. I do fine without them. Anyways just do runs with your guild.

Im 43k into 71 without thrasher and I never had a problem.

[wvhills]

my guild isn't very active. :(
Maybe some cookies would help, so give me cookies! Hehe. :)
Thanks for the tips lady! I guess I just expect more out of pugs. I'm just going to have to spend some more time and make new friends. Most of my pro friends have quit. :(

[Rauekat]

If u do it right Humania is great for pulling. Do some runs with hazacacodad.(think i spelt name wrong) Has some huge pulls really fun with i run with him/her

[dudetus]

That's why I have found myself using exp anywhere elixirs and farming some Fathom Crypt maps for exp...

It's rly hard to play with them. I tried to counter this by educating them like "hey u should gather all mobs and then stomp them against wall/corner" and all I usually get is "stfu u nub I know how to play". Kill them with fire is what I suggest.

U rly should try to gather ur friends playing, u know, the ones who don't scatter. U can pm me anytime IG and I'll come over with my archer. U have my bow, pew pew.

Edit: And it's actually kinda ironic that u made this thread since u r the author of the Scatterbear guide :p. Jokes aside, I would be glad to do some runs with ya :)

[wvhills]

That's why I have found myself using exp anywhere elixirs and farming some Fathom Crypt maps for exp...

It's rly hard to play with them. I tried to counter this by educating them like "hey u should gather all mobs and then stomp them against wall/corner" and all I usually get is "stfu u nub I know how to play". Kill them with fire is what I suggest.

U rly should try to gather ur friends playing, u know, the ones who don't scatter. U can pm me anytime IG and I'll come over with my archer. U have my bow, pew pew.

Edit: And it's actually kinda ironic that u made this thread since u r the author of the Scatterbear guide :p. Jokes aside, I would be glad to do some runs with ya :)

Lol, i realize the irony. :(
I'm like a mad scientist who lost control of his creation. Haha!
if I see u on I'll pm ya!

[JFelt8]

Funny cause some of us bears think the other way. With rampant use of thrashers makes it hard to tank properly due to the fact that birds and images rush n steal aggro and don't let bears beacon. For me to tank properly I was only averaging 5-7k xp an hr because I'd have to run far enough ahead to beat the rushers. I finally did hit 71 after much aggravation, I just looked for friends I knew were bear friendly runners and then ground for hrs with them.

[wvhills]

Funny cause some of us bears think the other way. With rampant use of thrashers makes it hard to tank properly due to the fact that birds and images rush n steal aggro and don't let bears beacon. For me to tank properly I was only averaging 5-7k xp an hr because I'd have to run far enough ahead to beat the rushers. I finally did hit 71 after much aggravation, I just looked for friends I knew were bear friendly runners and then ground for hrs with them.

The problem is bears think they have to stay till every mob is killed before they move to next pile. I do rush ahead if I'm with a bear who thinks his job is to kill every last mob instead of grouping them then moving to the next ones. Then the bear thinks he must get his combo in and will beckon from behind and steal all the mobs away then stomp them into random directions so we have to track the mobs down one by one. Instead of beckoning and stomping randomly just to get your combo in bears should rush ahead and stay ahead.

I'm not talking about you specifically, Idk ur ign or if ur a good bear or a bad bear but 95% of the bears in humania don't group, they beckon to the center of a wide open space the spray mobs everywhere.

[FluffNStuff]

They put some fancy code work to make the snow areas more slippery, and I believe that the sand areas are using those model. This could explain why mobs go fffaaaaalllyyyyyyinnnnnnnggggg. Of course, it could just be excitement at level 7 skills. Either way, I just avoid bears at all cost. They make it to slow, as I do not have time to chase mobs and kill them. Just check if there is bears, and if there is, find another game. Sad to say it has come to this, because I love my bear.

[LADYHADASSA]

They put some fancy code work to make the snow areas more slippery, and I believe that the sand areas are using those model. This could explain why mobs go fffaaaaalllyyyyyyinnnnnnnggggg. Of course, it could just be excitement at level 7 skills. Either way, I just avoid bears at all cost. They make it to slow, as I do not have time to chase mobs and kill them. Just check if there is bears, and if there is, find another game. Sad to say it has come to this, because I love my bear.

Fluff you and justbrutal rock bear! Seriousley if peeps just let ya all ahead a little and go where the tank goes slippery or not the mob is dead! Ill run huma. With you or brute or anyother map for that matter any day any time :) there are few well skilled tanks and when i find them i let em know " nice tanking"!

[NotYoCookiez]

my guild isn't very active. :(
Maybe some cookies would help, so give me cookies! Hehe. :)
Thanks for the tips lady! I guess I just expect more out of pugs. I'm just going to have to spend some more time and make new friends. Most of my pro friends have quit. :(

Ill give you some cookiez if it make you feel better <3 ^_^

[FluffNStuff]

I would be curious to try out 5 scatter bears in humania. It worked great in Crypt (1-4 are awful) but 5 was the magic number. I think the walls might have made it work though. The problem in humania is mobs might get flung so far they don't get hit by all the becon's / stomps, though there has to be a pattern that can create a vacuum. hmmm.

[csb]

I would be curious to try out 5 scatter bears in humania. It worked great in Crypt...

Scattering is always bad, i hate playing with other bears.

If there is a scatter bear in the group, then I just hang back and pick off a few stragglers. I'm not going to work hard trying to clean up the chaos.

[Windwaiker]

You can try leaving the game and keep on hopping from game to game until you find some good bears, play with them, and friend them. If you don't feel like finding a game, then you will have to cope with the scatterbears or find a game without bears. It sucks having bears that hang back and don't take damage, so I just usually leave those games. Other times, when I give up finding a decent party, I go out attacking mobs and I try not to die lol. Or wait for the mana shield mages to soak the damage and then attack.

[Snakespeare]

Amazingly simply answer to the problem. People need to learn that the edges can help them cluster instead of scatter.

A bear shouldn't beckon in the center of an area, but while standing against a wall or better yet a corner.
A bear should stomp after taking one step out from the beckon point, to stomp the mobs toward the wall. (So... wall - beckon - step out - stomp)

THORN combo debuffs, so it should come before other combos.
A bird should thorn wall as the bear beckons, then do its self-combo.

A Mage should WAIT for the bear and bird for one second, then cast lightning after the thorn wall.
Mages should stand where the bear stomps (one step out from the beckon point) to do self-combo and blast the mobs TOWARD the wall.

Humania does have edges. It only looks like it is wide open.

[Drizzid]

I find it pretty easy to control mobs on my bear, the problem is most bears stomp before the mobs are gathered and they go in different directions. The problems also arise when there is more than 1 bear on the map, each is fighting eachother for mob control.

Hang back from the bear, I always throw roots/thorn down right after beckon, it helps hold them in place and adds more damage.

[Growwle]

Hey guys,
I'm mainly playing DL now but want to keep at least my bird at level cap in PL so I jump in there from time to time. Unfortunately, I'm finding humania to be unplayable because of the excessive scattering. Bears fling mobs around randomly and mages like firestorming the mobs away also. This coupled with the extra long lengths of the maps (and the amount of walking required) makes doing runs really aggravating for me. I haven't timed them but it seems to me that each run in humania takes at least twice as long as the other campaigns.

Any advice? How do you guys deal with these issues. For that matter, are they issues for you guys or do you not mind playing like this (i.e. slow, lol). I already know all the noob stuff like host ur own game, invite pro bears, etc. but honestly, there aren't that many good bears out there that play the same times I do. Plus, with humania's wide open spaces the mages and their firestorm are almost as big an issue as the bears.

I'd really love to keep playing PL but I can't grind in humania like I could in fang, sewers, ao, etc. After 2 or 3 runs I end up getting fed up and going back to DL to pvp.

Help!

Let people play how they want. If you don't like the way someone tanks, leave the map and put that tank on your ignore list, problem solved.

[Energizeric]

I don't even bother to tank in Humania. I just follow as the mages and birds lead the way and kill the bad guys. I clean up whatever scraps they miss, and then when we get to the boss, then I tank.

[Paar]

Meme

[Zaonabiuibil]

LOL

[FluffNStuff]

Scattering is always bad, i hate playing with other bears.

If there is a scatter bear in the group, then I just hang back and pick off a few stragglers. I'm not going to work hard trying to clean up the chaos.

In Crypt, one scatter bear is awful, five scatter bears is epic. There is so much damage in all the becon in stomps that the mobs evaporate. Also, the deafening hellscreams means no damage is done to you or any of the other bears.

[Glad]

Bear haters

[NECROREAPER]

Alerternatively, a bear could grab agro from around the room and beckon to the center of it BUT NOT STOMP, leaving a nice clump of mobs in the center of the room for the birds and mages.

Unfortunately, the bear isn't needed anywhere near as much as it was in other maps like sewers or AO, thus people become even more critical of bad bear habits and criticize us even more, making us want to play humania on bear less and less.

[Stephencobear]

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r586/stephencobear/9fef22a1.jpg

Don't forget our traditional gift for bearly tanking,
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r586/stephencobear/0c12d024.jpg

[csb]

In Crypt, one scatter bear is awful, five scatter bears is epic. There is so much damage in all the becon in stomps that the mobs evaporate. Also, the deafening hellscreams means no damage is done to you or any of the other bears.

Sure, but why practice bad habits? A group should have only one or two bears. Two bears are ok, if they work together instead of fighting each other. Two bears can keep everything stunned and help each other when the piles are accidentally not so neat.

Scattering is just lazy. You should have an alt mage for those lazy days when you want to play without much work, or criticism.

[Dragonrider023]

Yep remember bears are driving the tank while bird is ur gunner and marie is repairperson

[Register]

FACT: Epic Bears are number 1 on the endangered list of PL

You just gotta play with friends, hopefully they are smart! Or, do what I also do, create a bear alt! That way there will not be a scatterbear leading the group 99% of the time ;)

GL

[FluffNStuff]

Yep remember bears are driving the tank while bird is ur gunner and marie is repairperson

You only need a repair person if a bear is driving ;)

[Haowesie]

Funny cause some of us bears think the other way. With rampant use of thrashers makes it hard to tank properly due to the fact that birds and images rush n steal aggro and don't let bears beacon. For me to tank properly I was only averaging 5-7k xp an hr because I'd have to run far enough ahead to beat the rushers. I finally did hit 71 after much aggravation, I just looked for friends I knew were bear friendly runners and then ground for hrs with them.

Agree with this... My main is a bird and usually start the game solo with trasher. By the time people join in, I'm so far ahead that I don't realize there is a bear... However I do try and behave once I know there is a bear since the kills are so much cleaner and I don't need to hit the red pots. Having said that, the flip side of me being in front is that bears will tend to stomp trying to catch up and finish the game with that mentality (specially ones who are not using any elixir).

It's very easy to recognize an experienced bear, they will normally over take you to the next mob without pulling mob already engaged.

[WhoIsThis]

From my experiences, as a percentage, the ratio of good to bad bear is by far the worst of the 3 classes.


Bears

Against Mobs
What makes a bear is the potent crowd control abilities. You're not going to be the one that gets the most kills. Instead, your job is to go in and create the conditions in which the team can wipe out their intended targets quickly, while sustaining minimal damage.

At times, I feel that bears are under-appreciated and are treated unfairly. Experienced players will know the value of a good bear that uses crowd control and can tank effectively. On the other hand, there are some truly terrible bears out there that if you booted them, the team would actually go faster because of their tendency to scatter mobs.

Bears have become the least welcome class in the end game and there is something of a "noob" bear perception. The reason why is because the majority of bears do not tank nor use their crowd control abilities effectively. Many bears focus purely on being an attack bear. Many bears have told me that their job in the team is to spam their slashes and to fire their main weapon. In practice, bears won't be able to do as much damage as a dex bird nor an int mage with this mentality. This has contributed to their bad rep. Essentially, they are a warbird with bear skills. Warbirds will outdamage them.

The other reason why bears have a bad reputation is that there is the perception that bear players tend to "mess up" the most. The very worse thing a bird could do would be to kill a teammate by blowing a barrel up (or a fire vent) with the blast shot or to repulse a boss near death, causing them to reset. Mages can set off fire vent or barrel too (fire blast is notorious for this). But bears when they don't use beckon and stomp can routinely cause mobs to scatter. They can also taunt fire vents or stomp near them causing an explosion. Stomp, like repulse for birds can also cause a boss to reset.

As a bear, you'll have to work hard to diminish this rather unfair perception. Unfortunately, fair or not, the perception is there. Crowd control and tanking are what separate good from bad bears.

So how does a bear tank? Before you begin, bring enough health potions to last the run. Tanking can be pot intensive, especially if you are a dex bear. The objective of tanking and crowd controlling is to drive a mob into a position where they can easily be killed by AOE spells, while keeping the mob off the rest of the party.

1. Survey the area: You'll ideally want your targets to be against a wall when you tank, so find a wall (easy to do in most dungeons - large rooms like in the Bandit Boy Stronghold first room can be a bit of a challenge - drive them to "9 clock position" in that room - away from fire vents and away from the spawning point in the event that the round-up fails). Against large open areas like the Graveyard in Symphony, try hugging the walls and driving targets towards the walls.

2. Buff. Cast evade, iron blood, and rage. You'll need the first two for survivability and the last one to supplement the team's damage.

3. Approach the mob and cast taunt. The targets will have a red "glow" and will be drawn towards you. You can cast Hell Scream now to minimize the amount of damage you take. Alternatively, you could delay Hell Scream a bit until either a mage debuffs or a bird casts shattering scream to form the "terror". Up to you - experiment and see what works. In PUGs though, I recommend casting Hell Scream early as there is no assurance that your teammates will debuff.

4. Go against the wall and beckon. Remember, the objective is to drive the targets against the wall and keep them there. I know that this sounds bizarre, but when you beckon - don't select a target to auto. Beckon (strangely) works better when you do not auto a target.

5. Move away from the wall and opposite to the direction that you beckoned. In a hallway, stand in the middle of the hallway. In a room, stand about 3m away from the wall. If you didn't cast Hell Scream earlier, do it now. The stun effect of the beckon has probably worn off and if your team hasn't debuffed, they won't. (Chances are, you're in a PUG that has players who do not understand the concept of debuffing.) Ask them politely to debuff next time. If they don't, next time, cast Hell Scream as directed in step 3.

6. Cast stomp. This will combo to form "smash" and slam the mob against the wall. This is why having a wall is so critical. Otherwise, the mobs would just scatter when you stomped them, making all that you've done pointless. Putting them against a wall makes it easier to kill.

7. Assist your team in killing. By now, archers should have casted blast shot/cruel blast, mages should be nuking, and so on. You can assist your team in killing. Priority targets are enemy dex units (aliens with blasters and bandit boy birds, along with the green slime mages with fire weapons). They should be taken out with your slashes and crushing blow.

8. As soon as you see the majority of the enemies near death and you're reasonably certain that the team can kill without the need for a tank, move on. It's important that you stay ahead of your group. Nobody wants a bear that stays in the rear and is afraid to die. You won't be getting very many kills if you do that anyways - the birds will get the kills with their cruel blast and mages with their AOE. Repeat cycle for the next mob.

You'll want to always stay one step ahead of the group. Don't expect to get many kills as a bear, but at the same time, you can expect the least amount of deaths. Good bears often have much higher PvE K/D ratios compared to their squishier counterparts. Your job is not to kill, but to tank; a good party will understand that.


....

Against bosses
Against bosses, these are the goals:

1. Acquire Aggro: The ideal boss fight goes with the bear starting with aggro and holding it for the entire duration without any deaths in the party. In order to do this, the best way is for the bear to go in first, taunt, beckon, and stomp the boss into a wall or corner where available. Otherwise, spam slashes and crushing blow.

2. Hold Aggro: This is a challenge because bears do not do as much damage as other classes. If a bear did not get aggro at the start, they need to gain aggro. The best way to do this is to try to use the smash combo and to taunt the boss repeatedly. This may not succeed the first time, but a sustained barrage usually does the job.

3. Protect the rest of the team: Wherever the bear does faces the boss, they need to protect the rest of the team. At the end game, often squishier builds can be killed in one hit. The key as a bear to do this is to be able to know when your teammates are in trouble and to use a well aimed beckon (or stomp) to pull the boss towards you or push the boss away from the vulnerable target when they get aggro. Good aim is crucial as you do not want to reset the boss. Generally your comrade is in trouble if they have low hp and are being targeted by the boss. In such a situation, attempt to beckon the boss, and taunt. You can also stomp, but be very careful about where you stomp - you do not want to stomp the boss and cause it to reset.

Generally, for the bulk of the fight though, you want the boss pinned against the wall (or ideally a corner) and targeting you for the entire fight. Depending on the difficulty of the boss and the skill of the mage(s) in the party, you may or may not need to use health potions. Specific mechanics of certain bosses will require movement, but you want to hold aggro for the duration of the fight.



As a strength bear, you will want to stand your ground in your strength gear when facing the boss. In dex gear when facing the boss, you can kite, but try to keep aggro on you nonetheless unless in the presence of a warbird or pally or a bear in strength gear. Bear in mind that this is intensive in terms of health potion usage, so you'll want to stock up and not rely on the mage. It is even more intensive than when facing crowds. Int bear plays very similar to dex bear, only that gathering mobs is more critical as your relying heavily on your AOE from staff and the skill damage from your stomp.

[BirdJay]

Hey robert i will run with you anytime and scatter the mobs all over the place just like you want....haha nah really good seeing ya bud

[StompArtist]

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?31389-How-to-be-a-good-Scatter-Bear&highlight=scatterbear


There ya go.

[springtime]

When I was lvling my bear I tried to kick the enemy forward-that way we could continue to be going in the right directing...and would not slow the group down. Then the mages and birds did there stuff. Worked pretty well.

[kiitz]

When I was lvling my bear I tried to kick the enemy forward-that way we could continue to be going in the right directing...and would not slow the group down. Then the mages and birds did there stuff. Worked pretty well.

This is an interesting tactic that I never considered in my entire time tanking... The only other side to this would be that if you do clump against a wall, everyone else can blow their AOE combos to kill the mobs in a second meaning there are no more mobs to kick along down the road and you can just run.

There really are no non-boss mobs that can take 5 AOE combos of varying types depending on class. A clean pull and grouping and resulting swift 1 set of combo attacks killing everything will always be the best pull.

If you do not have the option of a wall or corner (or even tree or rock) then I commend you for coming up with the "kick the mob" down the road technique. It will be one I try!

[elianel]

That's why we have guild my friend

[Jblazer]

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r586/stephencobear/9fef22a1.jpg

Don't forget our traditional gift for bearly tanking,
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r586/stephencobear/0c12d024.jpg
Lol nice pictures.Btw you're "So smack my thanks button like its naughty"phrase is intimidating,oh but not enough xD.

[wvhills]

Hey robert i will run with you anytime and scatter the mobs all over the place just like you want....haha nah really good seeing ya bud

hey birdjay! I'll try to catch up to you in game. :)
I play DL pvp mostly now but need to level at least my bird. These maps just take way too long. lol.

[JaytB]

I made a video especially for all those scatterbears :D

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?t=62485

[McBain]

The "stomp ahead" technique is pretty useful when playing with another bear. When approaching a mob, you can stomp early to move them closer to the wall or corner, then let the other bear combo them. If you're coordinated, you can then jump ahead to the next mob, and sort of "leap frog" each other with this system.

I think most scattering comes down to bears not coordinating. If there's more than one bear in a group and they're both trying to pull crowd control, it becomes a mess pretty quickly. Just take a second to observe what the other players are doing. A simple idea, but i don't think a lot players do it. If you're in a run with another bear and he's clearly taking the lead, don't try to compete. It also doesn't hurt to communicate using chat (it's there for a reason). Just specify "i pull" or "you pull" in a non-trolly way and it usually makes a big difference.

[kiitz]

The "stomp ahead" technique is pretty useful when playing with another bear. When approaching a mob, you can stomp early to move them closer to the wall or corner, then let the other bear combo them. If you're coordinated, you can then jump ahead to the next mob, and sort of "leap frog" each other with this system.

I think most scattering comes down to bears not coordinating. If there's more than one bear in a group and they're both trying to pull crowd control, it becomes a mess pretty quickly. Just take a second to observe what the other players are doing. A simple idea, but i don't think a lot players do it. If you're in a run with another bear and he's clearly taking the lead, don't try to compete. It also doesn't hurt to communicate using chat (it's there for a reason). Just specify "i pull" or "you pull" in a non-trolly way and it usually makes a big difference.

Agreed. Usually I would only play my bear if I am the only bear in the group. The except is when you have a friend who is also an awesome bear and then you can just coordinate pulls, either switching off, or both going into the same corner and beckoning at the same time to get a "super" pull.

Pugs are obviously harder, but if you find a good bear, its nice to have alts to swap to and switch to mage or bird to support the good bear.

[Whirlzap]

my guild isn't very active. :(
Maybe some cookies would help, so give me cookies! Hehe. :)
Thanks for the tips lady! I guess I just expect more out of pugs. I'm just going to have to spend some more time and make new friends. Most of my pro friends have quit. :(

Yeah, some people have guilds that don't pot thrashers or play too often during the weekdays (jobs and stuff to do).

It's especially difficult to level this cap since no one farms in Sandbar after they hit 70 because of Monster Bash.
What annoyed me last night was getting booted out of three runs a second after I found out that they were full of thrasher people.
Didn't even have a chance to ask if it was full or anything.

Unlike Mount Fang and the Crypt runs for EXP, bears, mages, and birds in random PUGs tend to die a LOT and scatter/fail to combo efficiently.
It's quite aggravating.
On the bright side, I'm getting a lot of kills by unintentionally kill stealing a lot of kills.
Also, I'll probably earn another million gold or so from liquidating oranges/greens by the time I hit level 71 at this rate.

I asked for hardcore, so this...aggravating grind I shall get.

[McBain]

It's especially difficult to level this cap since no one farms in Sandbar after they hit 70 because of Monster Bash.


Not true, at least for those of us who don't want to spend ungodly amounts of plat, and from my experience there are a lot of us out there. I always find Sandbar runs pretty easily, and I don't use thrasher either. There are lots of people leveling in Sandbar right now, even at level 70 (myself included).

Obviously, it's still pretty difficult to get anywhere xp-wise, since there are relatively few mobs on that map, and they're spaced in a way that's not optimal. Even the most well played runs will be in the 4-5 minute range. I did the math not long ago and figured it would take me about 83 hours or so to cap. :frown: With the daily elixirs and the occasional 2x xp pot, it will end up being less than that, but still a pretty dismal number to have in the back of your head.

[springtime]

; )

[Iehaenis]

AOE's, baby, AOE's. lol