Humania Purples...

[Energizeric]

There's been some discussion on whether or not some of the Humania purples are good items or if they are all junk, so I just wanted to show some stats on a few of the better items compared to other much more expensive pinks:

L66 War Leader's Flickering Blade
104-109 Damage, 0.8 speed, 26 Str, 9% Dodge, 4% Crit, 6 H/s, 5 M/s, 15 Armor

L66 War Leader's Limbchopper
160-180 Damage, 0.9 speed, 26 Str, 9% Dodge, 4% Crit, 6 H/s, 5 M/s, 15 Armor

L66 Humanian's Nightmare Scimitar
181-210 Damage, 1.3 Speed, 31 Str, 7% Dodge, 5% Crit, 4 Health, 6 H/s, 5 M/s, 14 Armor

L65 Orlok's Chiroptera Sword
168-198 Damage, 1.3 Speed, 22 Str, 5% Dodge, 3% Hit, 7 H/s, 4 M/s, 11 Armor

In the comparison of these 4, the L66 Purples give the highest DPS, Dodge and Armor.



L66 Chief's Metallic Stiletto
102-105 Damage, 0.4 Speed, 26 Dex, 9% Hit, 7% Crit, 5 H/s, 4 M/s, 13 Armor

L65 Vampyr Chiroptera Dagger
112-115 Damage, 0.4 Speed, 22 Dex, 6% Hit, 6% Crit, 4 H/s, 4 M/s, 10 Armor

L65 Sanguine Chiroptera Dagger
116-119 Damage, 0.4 Speed, 25 Dex, 7% Hit, 7% Crit, 5 H/s, 5 M/s, 8 Armor

In the comparison of these 3, the L66 Chief's Metallic Stiletto gives the highest Hit% & Armor.



L66 Chief's Trueshot Bow
153-193 Damage, 0.7 Speed, 26 Dex, 9% Hit, 7% Crit, 5 H/s, 4 M/s, 13 Armor

L65 Sanguine Chiroptera Longbow
189-234 Damage, 0.9 Speed, 22 Dex, 8% Hit, 6% Crit, 4 H/s, 4 M/s, 9 Armor

L66 Sun God's Beach Bum's Bow
200-240 Damage, 0.9 Speed, 29 Dex, 8% Hit, 10% Crit, 4 H/s, 4 M/s, 12 Armor

In the comparison of these 3, the L66 Chief's Trueshot Bow gives the highest DPS, Hit%, H/s and Armor.


Not trying to say the purples are better, but they are certainly decent. The armors, helms and shields also are pretty decent.

[FluffNStuff]

The issue with the high speed / low damage weapons like the trueshot bow and flickering blade is you lose over all DPS because of the armor effect, and especially on birds because you get much less damage to skills. At level 70, there is a 50 point damage difference, and that translates into losing 50 damage points each on 7 skills (I refuse to acknowledge avian scream) + the extra skill blast shot combo. I have been putting together "true" DPS for previous sets, and was going to wait till bonuses, but I might go ahead and calculate it sooner.

[Energizeric]

It all depends on who you are fighting. Daggers in general are low DPS weapons, yet I've seen some birds who would chop down bosses extremely fast with a good dagger.

Yes, if you are fighting Tiki God, better get a high damage weapon. But some bosses like the Bandit Queen for example, don't have high armor and instead spam heal themselves. For them, high DPS is the only way to beat them. With the L66 Stiletto I can solo the Bandit Queen. With just about any other weapon, she heals herself quicker than I can cause damage.

The same with clearing mobs, high dps is better as they have low armor.

[FluffNStuff]

It all depends on who you are fighting. Daggers in general are low DPS weapons, yet I've seen some birds who would chop down bosses extremely fast with a good dagger.

Yes, if you are fighting Tiki God, better get a high damage weapon. But some bosses like the Bandit Queen for example, don't have high armor and instead spam heal themselves. For them, high DPS is the only way to beat them. With the L66 Stiletto I can solo the Bandit Queen. With just about any other weapon, she heals herself quicker than I can cause damage.

The same with clearing mobs, high dps is better as they have low armor.

I will have to get the numbers and put them into my code. It calculates true "perfect" dps for a bird (except for Avian Scream, that POS skill).

[Energizeric]

I will have to get the numbers and put them into my code. It calculates true "perfect" dps for a bird (except for Avian Scream, that POS skill).

It must assume a certain armor score for your enemy to calculate such a statistic. Some enemies will have higher armor and some will have lower, so it is really a circumstantial stat, but perhaps a good average armor score would be used to calculate your "perfect" dps.

[Zeus]

It all depends on who you are fighting. Daggers in general are low DPS weapons, yet I've seen some birds who would chop down bosses extremely fast with a good dagger.

Yes, if you are fighting Tiki God, better get a high damage weapon. But some bosses like the Bandit Queen for example, don't have high armor and instead spam heal themselves. For them, high DPS is the only way to beat them. With the L66 Stiletto I can solo the Bandit Queen. With just about any other weapon, she heals herself quicker than I can cause damage.

The same with clearing mobs, high dps is better as they have low armor.

Tony Stark: "I prefer a weapon that you only need to fire once".

I'll pick the bigger damage weapon any day, as I have more of a chance to finish them off in one combo, as opposed to daggering them to death. You never hear of a dagger getting all the glory & fame, but always hear about the big weapons getting the recognition.

Pick a map, I'll race you with my weapon, while you use your DPS weapon of choice. We can see who clears trash mobs faster. :)

[FluffNStuff]

It must assume a certain armor score for your enemy to calculate such a statistic. Some enemies will have higher armor and some will have lower, so it is really a circumstantial stat, but perhaps a good average armor score would be used to calculate your "perfect" dps.

I do have armor as a variable and usually run it with different values (trash mob/boss/pvp), though it is auto reduced by like 20 (or what ever break armor is). The reason it is "perfect" dps is because it would require firing your skills at the exact second they are ready, and in perfect order, which is impossible, but something we all try to come close to.

Do give you an idea, it was 1100 with Custom Raid Roach, 483 of it coming from the DPS on the bow.

[kiitz]

Tony Stark: "I prefer a weapon that you only need to fire once".

I'll pick the bigger damage weapon any day, as I have more of a chance to finish them off in one combo, as opposed to daggering them to death. You never hear of a dagger getting all the glory & fame, but always hear about the big weapons getting the recognition.

Pick a map, I'll race you with my weapon, while you use your DPS weapon of choice. We can see who clears trash mobs faster. :)

Agreed with above. DPS is never a good stat to go off of as the auto swing damage is not a huge part of the damage against mobs and because of armor. I pretty much always look at the skill damage when picking weapons, unless I need more armor/dodge/hit etc.

Apollo's clearing challenge sounds interesting!! LOL.

[Whirlzap]

I'll beat Apollo.

Mage>Bird

[Energizeric]

Challenge to you all: Bandit Boy Stronghold, clear entire dungeon including bosses. I'll use L66 purple dagger, you use any high damage weapon of your choice. No elixers, and you do it solo. :P

[kiitz]

Challenge to you all: Bandit Boy Stronghold, clear entire dungeon including bosses. I'll use L66 purple dagger, you use any high damage weapon of your choice. No elixers, and you do it solo. :P

This sounds like a lot of fun. If we are actually trying to conduct an experiment to see how much DPS matters, instead of just trying to be beat others and "win", you don't have to do the entire dungeon, just a stretch of it and time it. Further, there should be multiple runs and each player should also use purple gear as well as more expensive, high damage, lower dps items.

Finally, results for bears can only be compared to bears, birds with birds and mages with mages.

Whirlz, this isn't a contest to show everyone how amazing you are. We all know, because you repeatedly like to remind us.

P.S. in the spirit of "Science" if you want to participate and do not have one of the high end weapons, I'll loan it to you. If you decide to run away with it, I don't care if I'm out like a mil to a few mil, but everyone will know you are a scammer!

[Energizeric]

Whole dungeon should be completed. You get a nice mix of mobs there -- one of the toughest mob areas by the floor fire grates, and then 2 tough bosses that spawn together. It's a good difficult run, but a good L65-70 player can complete solo if skilled and with the right gear.

[kiitz]

What is the point of doing the whole dungeon? It would take a long time. I would rather see people do a specific stretch, maybe to the mini boss and get 2-3 runs in so we get more data, as opposed to just 1 data point.

The only reason to do so would be if you want to compare time to kill the boss, which would be interesting. But to speed things up, it would be better to do a timed stretch, and then clear to boss with multiple people if they are there to watch and do independent boss timings.

Also, if you do the entire thing, there is more risk of dying. Again, I'm looking this as scientific research, not, OMGZZ I'M BETTER THAN U cuz I dint DIEZ.

We can also do runs just to show off and compete for best times to show our skills, which would also be interesting, but that would be a separate thing.

[Whirlzap]

This sounds like a lot of fun. If we are actually trying to conduct an experiment to see how much DPS matters, instead of just trying to be beat others and "win", you don't have to do the entire dungeon, just a stretch of it and time it. Further, there should be multiple runs and each player should also use purple gear as well as more expensive, high damage, lower dps items.

Finally, results for bears can only be compared to bears, birds with birds and mages with mages.

Whirlz, this isn't a contest to show everyone how amazing you are. We all know, because you repeatedly like to remind us.

P.S. in the spirit of "Science" if you want to participate and do not have one of the high end weapons, I'll loan it to you. If you decide to run away with it, I don't care if I'm out like a mil to a few mil, but everyone will know you are a scammer!

Did I SAY it was a contest?

>.> Your tendency to quickly jump on me is prominent in my eyes.

[JaytB]

Took me about 11 mins flat to solo stronghold with 71 bird, with 'of tiki' items and bow. I missed 2 enemies and got 1 or 2 chats in between. It can definitely be done faster, but this was just my first random try at this. I'm curious to see how a dagger stacks up :)

I recorded the whole thing on video, but will give it a more serious try soon :D

[Energizeric]

I was just trying to prove a point actually. The bandit queen can be difficult to impossible without really high dps. She spam heals very quickly, but does not have high armor. So without high dps, it will not take a long time, but will take forever as you will not cause any damage. High dps weapons are needed in certain situations, and this is one of them. I always keep a dagger with me for this reason. And BTW, those numbers I posted above are base stats. When you equip the weapons with other gear, you damage is well over 200 with that dagger, and dps in way over 500. It's a really good weapon and chops down the bandit queen rather quickly. With my L66 Humanian's Nightmare Scimitar, I cannot beat her solo no matter what I do.

[FluffNStuff]

I was just trying to prove a point actually. The bandit queen can be difficult to impossible without really high dps. She spam heals very quickly, but does not have high armor. So without high dps, it will not take a long time, but will take forever as you will not cause any damage. High dps weapons are needed in certain situations, and this is one of them. I always keep a dagger with me for this reason. And BTW, those numbers I posted above are base stats. When you equip the weapons with other gear, you damage is well over 200 with that dagger, and dps in way over 500. It's a really good weapon and chops down the bandit queen rather quickly. With my L66 Humanian's Nightmare Scimitar, I cannot beat her solo no matter what I do.

AHHH, you are a bear. That explains it, you don't have the benefit of 8 high damage fire from a far skills to shred bosses to pieces ;)

[McBain]

If we're talking uncrafted Fang items, I seem to remember the Vampyr Longbow being generally superior stat-wise compared to the the Sanguine Longbow. I don't have the ability to compare these at the moment, but try comparing the Chief's bow to the Vampyr one instead. The only good thing about the Sanguine bow is that it's used for crafting, which even then doesn't make it too much better, but the crafted bow + set bonus (if you have the full crafted set) definitely beats the Humania purple stuff. I know you weren't comparing Humania purples to crafted gear, but just throwing that out there.

[Energizeric]

Of course. I wasn't trying to promote that people should use the purple gear instead of the pinks. I was just trying to show that Humania puples are not trash that should be liquidated. They have some value and are decent. I keep the dagger with me for those times when needed.

Also, I'm pretty sure the flickering blade is the same as the one in the Angel set. Can someone post the stats of the blade/sword in the angel set? I bet they are the same or very similar.

[JaytB]

Of course. I wasn't trying to promote that people should use the purple gear instead of the pinks. I was just trying to show that Humania puples are not trash that should be liquidated. They have some value and are decent. I keep the dagger with me for those times when needed.

Also, I'm pretty sure the flickering blade is the same as the one in the Angel set. Can someone post the stats of the blade/sword in the angel set? I bet they are the same or very similar.

How long does it take to clear stronghold with a dagger?

[CrimsonTider]

If you are a bear and want max dmg (bith weapon and skill), then a 2h sword will be far more superior to a daggar. Same goes for a biw or staff (for int bears.) If I get a long enough break from the water, I will run Stronghold and time both total clearing and Queen killing tines.

I will admit, I have used daggars but they never match a 1h/2h sword.

[Energizeric]

Yes, a 2H weapon is really good, but then my armor drops to around 160. With the dagger, my armor is 230 and DPS around 525. That is with L66 Humanity armor, helm and bongo, and the L66 stiletto.

[kiitz]

Did I SAY it was a contest?

>.> Your tendency to quickly jump on me is prominent in my eyes.

Haha, I am sorry. This is actually true... My apologies!

[CrimsonTider]

Yes, a 2H weapon is really good, but then my armor drops to around 160. With the dagger, my armor is 230 and DPS around 525. That is with L66 Humanity armor, helm and bongo, and the L66 stiletto.


True. But that is what pots and dodge are for. ;)

[Energizeric]

As a bear I actually enjoy playing with a dagger and I'm disappointed there is no Humania pink dagger set. When I was lvl 60, I set out to get a strongman's mace set, and when I couldn't afford the mace, I bought an obedience dagger as a temporary weapon until I could afford the mace. Eventually I liked the dagger so much I sold the strongman's helm, armor and shield and bought the obedience items to complete the set, and I used that set until I was lvl66. :)

I will admit though that I currently have the complete L66 Humanity Set will all 3 weapons and while using the Nightmare Scimitar with the Bongo is the "safe" way to fight with 227 armor, it's more fun to equip the 2H Spear as it hits really hard. Problem is my armor drops to 161. That's fine on lower levels, but in Humania I'll get killed too often, so the tank set is better.

[FluffNStuff]

Dagger is nice on a bear, especially with level 7 rage and some other extra damage add equipment. Spice in some armor break from birds and nightmare from Mages and you can do some pretty impressive damage.
I thought you were a bird, and would avoid them on birds because of skill damage, no rage and lack of range.

[JaytB]

Thought you were talking about a bird too, that's why I did the stronghold run on a bird O.o

[Whirlzap]

Haha, I am sorry. This is actually true... My apologies!
It's fine, I have some sort of ego that gets myself into fights pretty often.

[ThePvpTwink]

Crafted fang sets and humanian pinks still farly overpower humanian purples though.

(Ive gotten 7 purples today...no rerolls and no pinks ._.)

[Otukura]

Tony Stark: "I prefer a weapon that you only need to fire once".

I'll pick the bigger damage weapon any day, as I have more of a chance to finish them off in one combo, as opposed to daggering them to death. You never hear of a dagger getting all the glory & fame, but always hear about the big weapons getting the recognition.

Pick a map, I'll race you with my weapon, while you use your DPS weapon of choice. We can see who clears trash mobs faster. :)

Daggers are pro at keeping that mage's mana at zero, versus a mace that hits every 1.5 seconds. in that time they've gained 60 mana and used 3 skills. That dagger doesn't let them use one.

[Energizeric]

Which dagger is better?

L70 Chief's Metallic Stiletto
107-110 Damage, 0.4 Speed, 26 Dex, 9% Hit, 7% Crit, 5 H/s, 4 M/s, 13 Armor - cost in CS right now: 2500 gold

L65 Crafted Sanguine Chiroptera Dagger
116-119 Damage, 0.4 Speed, 25 Dex, 7% Hit, 7% Crit, 5 H/s, 5 M/s, 8 Armor - cost is CS right now: 239,811 gold

I'd say pretty even. Tiny bit higher damage for crafted sang, higher hit% & armor for stiletto. That is unless you factor in cost.

[Otukura]

^I think the Chief's Stiletto has more skill damage.

[Zeus]

Daggers are pro at keeping that mage's mana at zero, versus a mace that hits every 1.5 seconds. in that time they've gained 60 mana and used 3 skills. That dagger doesn't let them use one.

Add skill damage into that. Also, we were talking about PvE, not PvP, Chris. :)

[McBain]

^I think the Chief's Stiletto has more skill damage.

Skill damage is based on base damage, so the crafted dagger is better, albeit not by much.

[FluffNStuff]

Skill damage is based on base damage, so the crafted dagger is better, albeit not by much.

Would need to test the item, but in general there is a level component to the skill damage equation that just uses a general damage for an item. At least this is how it was, may have changed.

Essentially, a level 70 dagger would add more then a level 65 unless the damage is an additional stat.