Discussion/thoughts on Humania mystery boss without plat elixirs

[Intenze]

Hi Everyone,

I am thinking about if it is possible to do the Humania Mystery boss without plat elixirs and I wanted to start a discussion page to get input from all you pros out there. I am just going to write out all my initial thoughts and see what kind of feedback/tips/discussion we can get going. I buy some plat, but I don't have enough to stay elixired up the whole time to do repeat runs over and over so ideally, I would like to find a way to do it without plat elixirs and just rely on the ideal group and very strong group strategy to get it done.


1. I think the primary concern is how to keep the bear tank alive. My guess is that dex and int gear are not going to cut it. Most likely crafted strength humania gear will be required and the best spec will be dex/str. Dex so the tank has enough hit to hold aggro and also pull off mega combos when necessary. The boss does single hits for upwards of 700+ damage.

2. I am assuming 1 missed mega combo is going to seriously put a non-elixired group behind because the damage is not going to be there. We are going to be relying on consistent, reliable play with mega combos when we need it in order to prevent the boss from healing. There will be no "rush downs."

3. Optimal team. I am wondering if the optimal team would be 1 bear, 2 birds and 2 mages, OR 1 bear, 1 bird and 3 mages. The pros/cons of each:
- 2 birds, 2 mages: We will be able to pull of mega combos more frequently, however there will be less healing.
- 1 bird, 3 mages: We will heavily depend on the 1 bird to pull off the mega combo at the right time. There will be more healing with 3 mages rotating heals. Also, an interesting note is that the coffin mega combo limiting factor is just the mage's drain life. If the bear and bird just spam crushing blow and break armor, the crushed combo will basically be "active" 100% of the time since they are on such short cooldowns and there is a few second window open after each is cast. 1 bird, 3 mages would give us a better ability to keep the boss mega comboed, but would hurt the group's ability to pull off hellfire combos for killing the skeletons.
- Obviously, pulling off the combo on the boss is the most important. However, with as many skeletons as there are, I believe pulling off the AOE mega combo consistently would be quite important as well. The question is, how important is that, and is it okay to give up the ability to pull off the AOE mega in order to get more healing and more boss combos off?

4. Specs and gear for mages/bird. Since we are not focused on damage, but more so on first just the ability to stay alive, I think everyone will be using single handed weapon and shield/bracer. A dex bird should be okay. The question is, who will be tanking the skeletons before they die? Most likely the mages will get most of the aggro. I wonder if 1 or even 2 pallies will be useful in this situation. We would be giving up some healing ability to do this and damage. Will a pally be able to survive tanking those skeletons for a little bit before they all get killed off?
- The bear trying to tank the skeletons would probably not work either because the additional damage from the skeletons on top of the damage from the boss would probably kill him.
- The birds and mages would also need to try to go light on DPS since a strength bear is going to have trouble holding aggro if the birds and mages go full blast. single handed weapons and slow dps would be the best way to go.

5. Mega combo timing: The question here is if the boss goes to heal on a timer, or based on damage received. My personal belief is that it is on a timer, or there is some kind of timer that gets trigger after a certain amount of damage. This is because some elixir groups are able to rush him down before he even goes to heal. If it were based on a percentage of health to heal, as soon as he got 50% or whatever it is, he would immediately run.

6. Keeping up debuffs on the boss will be key
- Bear has to prioritize crushing blow
- Bird has to prioritize blinding shot and then break armor
- Mages, after heal, have to prioritize weakness and nightmare

7. defensive cooldowns
- Will the bear be able to switch between evade and iron blood, or will he need both to stay alive? What to do when they wear off and the cooldowns are not up again?
- Is it possible for the mages to switch skeleton aggro based on cooldowns? Seems pretty difficult
- Bird should theoretically not get much aggro, although scream + blast shot could also get him aggro as well...


Summary of discussion points:
1. Optimal spec/gear for the bear tank
2. Slow consistent play key to victory (with no missed megas and no one dying)
3. Optimal team make up: 1 bear, 2 birds and 2 mages, OR 1 bear, 1 bird, 3 mages
4. Optimal spec/gear for mages: Should we have a mix of pallies and int mages, or all pallies or all int mages?
5. Mega combo timing: Does the boss heal based on a timer or based on % of health?
6. Keeping up debuffs will be key to survival
7. How to best rotate defensive cooldowns

[Whirlzap]

Or you could just have some OP-geared DEX birds, one STR bear, and two INT staff mages.

And then just spam it to death?

Would that work? o.o
I mean if each member of the party knew what he/she was doing and was able to put together a nuke combo.

Doing it with brute force like this doesn't seem very possible without that 3x Damage, so I should assume you'd have to tank it out.
It's sort of like how Onyx works. You can kill it in between Sacrificial Golem heals or you could take down the golems and kill it the strategic way.

I like how STS offers a brute force strategy and a strategic strategy.

[Intenze]

Well, let's assume that we can have any gear we want (minus the new elite gear).

I think without the elixirs helping with damage, the whole fight will take at least 45 seconds or more. That means we're going to get skeletons and we're going to have to fight him when the bear's defensive cooldowns are down. I don't think spamming damage even with theoretically a mega combo everytime it was available would do the trick. One major problem is that the bear would not be able to hold aggro while in strength gear if the dex bird and mages are going "balls to the wall" and spamming damage.

Would be interesting to see though -- looking for more input!!

[vampinoy]

Well, let's assume that we can have any gear we want (minus the new elite gear).

I think without the elixirs helping with damage, the whole fight will take at least 45 seconds or more. That means we're going to get skeletons and we're going to have to fight him when the bear's defensive cooldowns are down. I don't think spamming damage even with theoretically a mega combo everytime it was available would do the trick. One major problem is that the bear would not be able to hold aggro while in strength gear if the dex bird and mages are going "balls to the wall" and spamming damage.

Would be interesting to see though -- looking for more input!!

For the skeleton mobs, if you position the boss in a pocket corner, and have two INT mages use 2k melee pot, you can dispose the mobs efficiently. You will realize that if the mobs are being overwhelmed with DPS skills, their attacks will be "interrupted", so you need to overwhelm the mobs with multiple spells from two mages, so their attack won't be as often, giving your team higher survivability - they key is stick together, so your combos will overlap and overwhelm the mobs. You don't have to spam mega combo, just only after he starts running for the tower. As for the bear holding aggro, it's really a problem...so you need to "identify" one more sacrificial lamb and that is your highest damage dealer (A dex bird), so you will all keep an eye on where boss' aggro is and will act accordingly...so mages will need to look out for two health bars, the bear's and the aggro stealer...it's mages' job to heal or rev either one of them if one of them goes low health or dies :P Also, the aggro stealer should be quick to recognize when to stop attacking so bear can steal it back...it's really a hard coordination thing, you will die looking for a rhythm but once you figure it out, it's fun...but I found one group that could pull it off properly. Good luck.

PS: The bears are meant to die and your team should try to delay his death. The bear's defensive skills and mage heals will not be enough to hold off the boss' insane damage especially when mobs are already flocking the inner pocket, the bear is most important participant in this boss fight, he will buy the team enough time for them to pull off their damage without his team dying, he's the kamikaze hero :P He's expected to die...when he dies, there should be a contingency plan on how to re-group the team...the key is what will you do if the bear dies? for your team to succeed, "you must expect deaths" and plan how to regroup after those deaths, it's like chess match, your queen dies...you let your other pieces work, you can't expect that your queen won't die :P...refer to my guide, it's one way, there are many ways I haven't mentioned too :P

Summary of discussion points:
1. Optimal spec/gear for the bear tank
- at least 70 uncrafted tank set. Crafted won't make much of a difference considering how insane the boss' damage is, he will go down at same rate if mages don't know how to heal.
2. Slow consistent play key to victory (with no missed megas and no one dying)
- Agree :P This boss is not a long fight even without elixir, just time those mega combo, the battle will be over quick
3. Optimal team make up: 1 bear, 2 birds and 2 mages, OR 1 bear, 1 bird, 3 mages
- 1 bear, 2 birds, 2 mages for quicker battle, you can even go 1 bear 3 birds and 1 mage if the mage knows what he's doing for really quick battle. Usually in executing mega combo, it's the bear and bird who are messing up because all the mage has to do is cast drain, since there's a delay, it will almost always hit the boss last (after break and crush blow). So it's crucial that birds get off first with the break, followed by crush blow...so another good combo is 2 bear, 2 bird, 1 mage, for mega combo team, higher chances of getting the break+blow combo in order followed by drain who usually comes in last anyway because of delay.
4. Optimal spec/gear for mages: Should we have a mix of pallies and int mages, or all pallies or all int mages?
- All full ints, you need full ints to dispose mobs and high heals
5. Mega combo timing: Does the boss heal based on a timer or based on % of health?
- boss heals on timer
6. Keeping up debuffs will be key to survival
- debuff not so much, the debuff effects come off quickly, if you rely on it, your team will be murdered, just the three main skill to comprise the combo, break blow drain, and have gameplans and contingency plans :P
7. How to best rotate defensive cooldowns
- all the boss needs is a couple of seconds when debuffs are down and your bear goes down...it's near impossible to get a perfect rotation. Your mage should take aggro of skeleton with their shield up. The bear and dex birds are the one switching aggro of the boss.

[Livemau]

wow nubs all it takes is 5 int bears and a cookie
why did no one else think of that yet

[Whirlzap]

There was also an old theory that was used before PL became easier to run.
Infinte Knockbacks.
Basically you'd have the classes take turns knocking back the targets to the point where their attacks would not hit.
Every enemy takes about 1/2 second to 1 second to attack you.
If you knockback fast enough with Firestorm, Stomp or Repulse, it will interrupt the attack because the range will be too far.
I don't if it works with skeletons, but if you managed to stun lock them or infinite knockback them into a wall or something, you could keep them away.

For an INT mage, it would definitely be possible to kill the mobs, if there were pots allowed.
Unfortunately, no HP spam makes it hard for a mage to nuke without getting killed halfway.
Then again, you could build a mega-dodge class.
Have all party members go STR with maximum dodge/armor/regen.

What seriously frustrates me is that with a Thrash on, I could take out all the skeleton mobs with a single nuke.
Yet when elixirs are allowed, potions are not.
Elixirs are on a much higher level than potions...I don't see the logic behind this at all.

[kiitz]

There was also an old theory that was used before PL became easier to run.
Infinte Knockbacks.
Basically you'd have the classes take turns knocking back the targets to the point where their attacks would not hit.
Every enemy takes about 1/2 second to 1 second to attack you.
If you knockback fast enough with Firestorm, Stomp or Repulse, it will interrupt the attack because the range will be too far.
I don't if it works with skeletons, but if you managed to stun lock them or infinite knockback them into a wall or something, you could keep them away.

For an INT mage, it would definitely be possible to kill the mobs, if there were pots allowed.
Unfortunately, no HP spam makes it hard for a mage to nuke without getting killed halfway.
Then again, you could build a mega-dodge class.
Have all party members go STR with maximum dodge/armor/regen.

What seriously frustrates me is that with a Thrash on, I could take out all the skeleton mobs with a single nuke.
Yet when elixirs are allowed, potions are not.
Elixirs are on a much higher level than potions...I don't see the logic behind this at all.

That infinite knock back thing is pretty interesting.

Unfortunately, the logic is as always, STS is trying to make as much money as they can. Make some amazing freakin' rewards and essentially impossible for all but the absolute best non-elixired groups to do this boss and you leave a lot of people seriously considering buying plat to have an opportunity to get these amazing looking weapons. Cha-Ching!!

I've been saying it basically forever. I don't "like" it, but its just how it has to be for a free-to-play game. Those who spend money will get more and there will naturally be a gap between those who pay and those who play for free. The KEY, I believe, to doing it right is to make the use of money a "time vs. money" consideration. XP Elixirs are a great example of the way it is done "right". You can either play 40 hours to grind the elite cap, or you can pay X amount of dollars per hour and have it only take 10 hours. The end result is available to everyone whether or not they pay or not, however if your time is worth more than the X dollars it costs if you want to use elixirs, then it makes financial sense to spend the money.

The mystery map is starting to border on what I believe is the "wrong" way for STS to make money. When it becomes pretty much "necessary" in order to spend money in order to achieve the final goal, then the gap between the "haves" and "have nots" widen too far. From a business perspective, this is not a problem because of the gap persay, but more so because once that gap widens too much, those who do not spend money will find that it is meaningless to play when it is essentially hopeless for them to ever catch up to those who spend money, no matter how much time, effort, or skill they put into the endeavor. When that happens, like countless free-to-play games before it, those who play for free will quit and the game will slowly die. When enough of the non-paying members quit, the players who pay will find that the community left playing is so small, its not even fun. Further, when everyone has the same, good stuff the players paying to get the best stuff will not feel as "awesome" and be able to show off and feel elite. And that's when the paying members leave as well and the entire game basically dies.

I am probably painting a harsher picture than how it REALLY turns out. The truth is, there are plenty of dead pay-to-play games. I believe STS is a cut above the rest and will do a good job balancing it all out though.

[Whirlzap]

Couldn't agree more with you.
Elixirs and leveling is a pretty good financial profit for STS.
I can evaluate more on this but my mind is killing me on the foruming part and it is pretty late so blah.

[Intenze]

Thanks for all the tips so far guys!

I've been thinking about this fight some more. It seems like before we try for the mega combo, it would make sense to make sure the boss is debuffed to reduce dodge. The 3 abilities would be: crushing blow, nightmare and thorn root.

Crushing blow is required for the mega combo, so it would make more sense to first use nightmare and thorn root.

A quick question, is it possible for thorn root to debuff the boss with the -35% dodge even though the boss cannot be rooted?