Bear is insanely OP at current endgame.

[Whirlzap]

Was talking with Kelly and Bless yesterday.
I shared some comments about why bears are pretty OP this cap.

- This cap maintains Bear's high dodge and armor.
Dodge and armor is still pretty annoying, but we had that during Fang cap and bears were not insanely OP then.

- This cap Bears have pretty high hit rate.
I think Saycred's bear has 116% hit rate.
Bears should have never had over 100% hit rate in PvP.

- Bears have VERY increased damage this cap.
I've seen bears do over 400+ crits to Wand Mages.
I think Waldo's bear did a 410 crit with Beckon.


It seems like Beckon, Stomp, Debuff, Stun and it's over for mages.
Reason of why Bears are more OP now is that Repulse and Firestorm are almost always dodged by bears.
Birds and Bears no longer have the potential to kite.

I know Mage has been pretty OP the last few caps, but at least we haven't been able to walk around a whole PvP map tanking hits.

[gundamsone]

I have to kite beckons on my mage in order to survive.

Usual beckon vs a bear = instea death for me even with mana shield on.

Maybe they should nerf the stats on the 1 hand mace a bit so it would balance out with the 2hand swords.

From what I see no one really uses 2hand weps in pvp.

[CrimsonTider]

You obviously did not read my thread. Here are some facts:

1. Have to be dual (str/dex) to have a high hit%. Before this cap, it was AO3 since we last had this. Having this setup decreases skill damage. Only class who can't play as pure.
2. Speaking of decreased skill damage, we easily have the lowest skill damage in game. Stomp and SMS barely go over 400 (on high end). Most bird and mage skills (w/o crit) have damage well over 500 and some in the 600 range.
3. Dodge is lower this cap than it was in Mt. Fang. Armor may be high, but last I checked, wand mages arent far behind.
4. Mages now have over 120 crit when buffed.... really???

I believe the term overpowered, or OP, is widely misused. Are bears strong? Yes. But to say a bear is overpowered is not factual. With the debuffs mages and birds have, our hit goes down rapidly. As a pure strength bear, 79% is the highest hit achieved and that is with a mecha face and 2% hit ring. Also, the fact that "Heal" clears all debuffs for a mage (birds and bears don't have this), makes it where, when timed correctly, a bear is left swinging as a mage can fire away while we wait for cooldown.

Also, please remember that a small majority of players pvp. The vast majority pve and a low hit% makes a bear useless when trying to perform crowd control when xp grinding and farming. Does not make for fun tanking and and causes alot of bears to be booted from games when beckon does not land.

Need to be a little more open-minded when looking at the issues. Big picture not small screenshot.

[kellylita]

You obviously did not read my thread. Here are some facts:

1. Have to be dual (str/dex) to have a high hit%. Before this cap, it was AO3 since we last had this. Having this setup decreases skill damage. Only class who can't play as pure.
2. Speaking of decreased skill damage, we easily have the lowest skill damage in game. Stomp and SMS barely go over 400 (on high end). Most bird and mage skills (w/o crit) have damage well over 500 and some in the 600 range.
3. Dodge is lower this cap than it was in Mt. Fang. Armor may be high, but last I checked, wand mages arent far behind.
4. Mages now have over 120 crit when buffed.... really???

I believe the term overpowered, or OP, is widely misused. Are bears strong? Yes. But to say a bear is overpowered is not factual. With the debuffs mages and birds have, our hit goes down rapidly. As a pure strength bear, 79% is the highest hit achieved and that is with a mecha face and 2% hit ring. Also, the fact that "Heal" clears all debuffs for a mage (birds and bears don't have this), makes it where, when timed correctly, a bear is left swinging as a mage can fire away while we wait for cooldown.

Also, please remember that a small majority of players pvp. The vast majority pve and a low hit% makes a bear useless when trying to perform crowd control when xp grinding and farming. Does not make for fun tanking and and causes alot of bears to be booted from games when beckon does not land.

Need to be a little more open-minded when looking at the issues. Big picture not small screenshot.


I read your post and although you have solid points, its no secret now on the massive dodge and damage a bear can do. Here is some clarification on your points.


1. Although you have to be dual, str sets now adds hit percent, which means str classes have to sacrafice less dex points and and can now put more points into their main skill which is why bears are hitting mages and birds 400+.

2. bears already have the highest dodge, armor, and now damage(crafted mace gives more damage then lonbow and wand), which in-turn further increases the damage a bear does in skill. with a bears hit percemt at 110% all enemies are in for a real big surprise when that beckon stomp hits. I dont think any class should be a tank machine and a damage machine.

3. Bears now reach a peak of 80-82 dodge. that means less than 1 out of my 4 skills will hit you. this makes it impossible to perform combos and kite. Add this with 800 hp, 41 reg more then 300 armor and you have immortality.

4. Yes mages now have 110 crit, but that makes no difference then having 100 crit from last cap. Bears are on the verge of breaking 80 crit. so that makes 82 dodge with 70-76crit. I like that a whole lot better then a mages 100 crit 25 dodge. (dodge is way more important then crit because you cant crit what u cant hit).

All in all i dont think the problems are bears. I think its the sets. pallies and bears are almost immortal in ctf. Birds suck even more now then before. Damage base sets (staff,2h weapons, longbows) are absolutely terrible. Bears were very usefull in 55 cap for pve. So i dont see why they had to change everything around. These new sets imho are op. not the classes. they need to nerf all these high numbers so pvp and pve can involve more skill rather then just luck. this is why level 55 sewer days were the glory days for pocket legends.

[Livemau]

says the over powered mages or should i say ex-overpowered

[saool]

Bears are a bit OP I can't seem to land any hits. Actually with the right tactic I can take a full vanity, and crafted bear down. But still they be strong.

[Fncrazy]

Op bear says the op mage?

Work on your skills man bears are not op... you guys just got lazy using Lilith's

[saool]

Op bear says the op mage?

Work on your skills man bears are not op... you guys just got lazy using Lilith's

We're not OP.

[Nihiliste]

One mage hit a 743 crit on me...

[Phoenixking]

We're not OP.
You know how to make me laugh

In my opinion most mages have gotten rather lazy with the Lilith and angel gear. I don't even try on my level 66 Mage and I won versus level 70 set bird

A good bear is tough for me. Birds aren't really getting an advantage and atleast mages aren't OP anymore

[Jugernugetx]

Mages- Extremely impossibly!! (No lie they kill ya in 2 hits)
Bears- meh.. i cant say :(
Birds- well... just make sure you are full dex ;) (unlike me -_-)

[xcainnblecterx]

How bout going to str then? If you did a mage with str then you would be like a bear. As I read its the gear, so why not switch and get the gear? If you can't beat Em join em

[Elyseon]

i can kill some angelic birds with my 61 mage(lilith wand set) and i suck with mage
i agree, mages just got to used to being OP that when this adjusted the need some more practice

[kellylita]

How bout going to str then? If you did a mage with str then you would be like a bear. As I read its the gear, so why not switch and get the gear? If you can't beat Em join em

I did exactly this. As a pally i have 102 hit, 46 dodge, 100 crit! Amazing stats. Does well against all classes. In ctf itll take 2-3 toons to take me down.

[Elyseon]

so its more like the demonic days, (mace set was best then right?)

[CrimsonTider]

@Kelly - I understand your logic. However, bears are the only class who are at their worst when playing pure. Strength sets should get better because they are geared towards bears. However, as I said before, a pure strength bear with Mecha face, 2% hit ring, and added hit% from new sets still ONLY hit 79%. One missed beckon = death. If you look at my guide on strength sets, there is not much difference between Crafted Orlok and Sand Walker.

Also, bears may have 300+ armor buffed, but pallies have that plus a mana shield. ;)

Plus, I saw you in towne as a pally. Of course your gonna have a hard time killing bears because your not maximizing your class. ;)

[xcainnblecterx]

I say pure dex birds op as my pally lvl68 gets two shoted

[kellylita]

@Kelly - I understand your logic. However, bears are the only class who are at their worst when playing pure. Strength sets should get better because they are geared towards bears. However, as I said before, a pure strength bear with Mecha face, 2% hit ring, and added hit% from new sets still ONLY hit 79%. One missed beckon = death. If you look at my guide on strength sets, there is not much difference between Crafted Orlok and Sand Walker.

Also, bears may have 300+ armor buffed, but pallies have that plus a mana shield. ;)

Plus, I saw you in towne as a pally. Of course your gonna have a hard time killing bears because your not maximizing your class. ;)

Read my above post to understand why i was trying out pally. There is a HUGE difference between crafted orlok and sand god sets. The difference is the added hit percent. With this 12 added hit percent i can put extra points in my main skill instead of wasting it on dex. Doing this gives a huge damage boost to your toon and still 100+ hit percent.

As for bears having 79 hit as a bear w/ full str is completely pointless because they dont need to be full str to dominate pvp. As a hybrid they are owning all ctf games and doing insane damage. thats like me saying i suck as a hybrid so why are bears the only good hybrid class?? ( which is true, mages suck as hybrids compared to full int).

I forsee every class using str sets this cap. This will be awful for pvp because as we all know bear vs bear fights are really boring so imagine pally vs pally, bear v pally, pally v warbird etc. Pvp for level 70 may die out with all these high numbers.

[Dynastu]

How bout going to str then? If you did a mage with str then you would be like a bear. As I read its the gear, so why not switch and get the gear? If you can't beat Em join em

If it were the gear, we'd have intbirds running around killing people in one hit.

However, I get where you're coming from. It does seem like str mages and birds have a better chance vs a str bear. But int bears and birds vs int mages :/ lol

[CrimsonTider]

Read my above post to understand why i was trying out pally.

As for bears having 79 hit as a bear w/ full str is completely pointless because they dont need to be full str to dominate pvp. As a hybrid they are owning all ctf games and doing insane damage. thats like me saying i suck as a hybrid so why are bears the only good hybrid class?? ( which is true, mages suck as hybrids compared to full int).

I forsee every class using str sets this cap. This will be awful for pvp because as we all know bear vs bear fights are really boring so imagine pally vs pally, bear v pally, pally v warbird etc. Pvp for level 70 may die out with all these high numbers.

Why do bears want to be full strength? Because as I've said three times now, our skills are decreased as dual. Just like all the classes. And again, PVP is a very small portion of PL. PVE is much more prevalent and cannot be ignored. The same arguments were made about Demonic and Crafted Orlok and PVP survived. It will this cap as well.

[Seminole]

I understand all bears will stand up for themselves to avoid the nerf hammer. However I just can't deny the fact that bears are way over-powered this cap. Kelly brings up a great point on the difference between crafted orlok and sand god set. That 12 percent hit added on is what makes pallies and bears such a hard class to beat.

[kellylita]

Why do bears want to be full strength? Because as I've said three times now, our skills are decreased as dual. Just like all the classes. And again, PVP is a very small portion of PL. PVE is much more prevalent and cannot be ignored. The same arguments were made about Demonic and Crafted Orlok and PVP survived. It will this cap as well.

Pve is dominated by elixers now. All i see are dex bears in pve anyway. its a completely different world then pvp and has nothing to do with this discussion. Pve has become so easy all it takes is one toon with an daily elix to easily finish a map without dying. so please stop trying to bring pve into a pvp thread lol because one small change (from maybe 82 dodge to 70 dodge) wont effect it at all.

As for hybrids, all i can say is look at diff level twinks. Hybrids simply own with many twinks. Just like they do with lev 70 bears. its that simple.

also with all due respect you are completely wrong about there being no difference between crafted orlok and sand god. Read my last post for details.

[CrimsonTider]

Pve is dominated by elixers now. All i see are dex bears in pve anyway. its a completely different world then pvp and has nothing to do with this discussion. Pve has become so easy all it takes is one toon with an daily elix to easily finish a map without dying. so please stop trying to bring pve into a pvp thread lol because one small change (from maybe 82 dodge to 70 dodge) wont effect it at all.

As for hybrids, all i can say is look at diff level twinks. Hybrids simply own with many twinks. Just like they do with lev 70 bears. its that simple.

also with all due respect you are completely wrong about there being no difference between crafted orlok and sand god. Read my last post for details.

I don't need to read your post, because you have not acknowledged mine. Here's your facts:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?64334-***RAWR!!-A-Comprehensive-Analysis-of-Strength-Sets-AO3-to-Humania***#post726074

This explains it all. As I said in my first post, there is a bigger picture to the small one being focused on here.

[TANKKAAR]

IMO its not the classes or the sets that need to be fixed... I have been thinking about this and have narrowed the entire problem down to dodge... The most problematic and unpredictable stat (dodge) that at lower levels in smaller amounts is vital to the game and play-ability of it, has now gotten out of control and interferes at end game. It shouldn't be taken away completely as even in real life there is a chance for a dodge or miss but it needs to be minimized to a more realistic amount. I know that some of you are saying in your head that a quality tank NEEDS dodge which is true to an extent but imaging your same tank with 20ish dodge but 500+ armor and 50-60 regain just as useful imo yet not as luck based. Doing a very similar thing to all classes would then level the playing fields and take the luck out while putting the strategy back in. I also feel like making the stats that we would have more inherently based in the character type vs the amount we pump into strength, dex, mage (for example: Bird and Bear have identical stat build 160 str/ 194 dex the bear would have significantly higher dodge and armor while the bird would retain a higher hit% and crit) while still allowing all type to use there preference of gear.

Over all it would take some tweaking but the end result would meana more "skill and strategy" based game vs a game thats based on whos luckier today! AKA WAY BETTER!

[Phoenixking]

If it were the gear, we'd have intbirds running around killing people in one hit.

However, I get where you're coming from. It does seem like str mages and birds have a better chance vs a str bear. But int bears and birds vs int mages :/ lol
Actually, an intbird does very well vs Mage, my angel set killed level 70 uncrafted Mage with sets, 70% of the time

[Elyseon]

IMO its not the classes or the sets that need to be fixed... I have been thinking about this and have narrowed the entire problem down to dodge... The most problematic and unpredictable stat (dodge) that at lower levels in smaller amounts is vital to the game and play-ability of it, has now gotten out of control and interferes at end game. It shouldn't be taken away completely as even in real life there is a chance for a dodge or miss but it needs to be minimized to a more realistic amount. I know that some of you are saying in your head that a quality tank NEEDS dodge which is true to an extent but imaging your same tank with 20ish dodge but 500+ armor and 50-60 regain just as useful imo yet not as luck based. Doing a very similar thing to all classes would then level the playing fields and take the luck out while putting the strategy back in. I also feel like making the stats that we would have more inherently based in the character type vs the amount we pump into strength, dex, mage (for example: Bird and Bear have identical stat build 160 str/ 194 dex the bear would have significantly higher dodge and armor while the bird would retain a higher hit% and crit) while still allowing all type to use there preference of gear.

Over all it would take some tweaking but the end result would meana more "skill and strategy" based game vs a game thats based on whos luckier today! AKA WAY BETTER!
Agreed, I mentioned this to some people in pvp and they were just saying no, I guess they like the extremed stats so they can boost their kill count easier, in a legit 1v1 bird fight it's now a shot of auto + blast shot to win, 1 dodge can change everything
Now with all the sets adding dodge it just makes things more ridiculous, they need to rebalance the pvp to be like sewers, lower dmg to reduce to OP-ness of a 100% dmg reduction

[Phoenixking]

Agreed, I mentioned this to some people in pvp and they were just saying no, I guess they like the extremed stats so they can boost their kill count easier, in a legit 1v1 bird fight it's now a shot of auto + blast shot to win, 1 dodge can change everything
Now with all the sets adding dodge it just makes things more ridiculous, they need to rebalance the pvp to be like sewers, lower dmg to reduce to OP-ness of a 100% dmg reduction
Intbirds > level 70 uncrafted dex set 80% of the time, it's legit

[Mothwing]

Sigh...

[Phoenixking]

Sigh...
What exactly are you sighing at? O_o

[TEOKILLO]

your beautiful face :O

[Zeus]

We're not OP.

That was the funniest post I've read all day.

Mages are used to basking in the spotlight as the dominant class. Perhaps it's time to give the spotlight to another class.

[Phoenixking]

That was the funniest post I've read all day.

Mages are used to basking in the spotlight as the dominant class. Perhaps it's time to give up the spotlight.
that's better if you know what I mean

[saool]

We're not OP.

That was the funniest post I've read all day.

Mages are used to basking in the spotlight as the dominant class. Perhaps it's time to give the spotlight to another class.

:rolleyes:
We're not OP never been OP.
You're OP and he is OP, but mages. We were never ever ever ever OP.

Ok maybe once...

[Phoenixking]

:rolleyes:
We're not OP never been OP.
You're OP and he is OP, but mages. We were never ever ever ever OP.

Ok maybe once...Twice. . . Almost 5 o_o

[TEOKILLO]

maybe 6

[Phoenixking]

maybe 6
I see your name everywhere I post. . .

[TEOKILLO]

Same! Wonder why:O

[Zeus]

:rolleyes:
We're not OP never been OP.
You're OP and he is OP, but mages. We were never ever ever ever OP.

Ok maybe once...

Lol :rolleyes:

[Phoenixking]

Same! Wonder why:O
What you sent me just stated the obvious. . .

[WhoIsThis]

That was the funniest post I've read all day.

Mages are used to basking in the spotlight as the dominant class. Perhaps it's time to give the spotlight to another class.

So did birds.

But the fact that classes can for each level cap bask if you will at each cap is the problem. Who wins most often in PvP shouldn't be about having the right class - it should be about timing, using the right move at the right time, reaction time, and situation awareness. I'm not saying lucky crits won't happen but overall over many matches.

Looking at this and other threads, judging by the fact that there has been a near consensus that each patch has brought one class that is OP, and the general lack of action by the devs, I can only conclude that PvP balance isn't a priority for the devs.

[saool]

maybe 6

I said maybe once...just once. Where you getting your numbers from?

[plmafiaboss]

All classes,r even ._. Learn ur class

[WhoIsThis]

Also, please remember that a small majority of players pvp. The vast majority pve and a low hit% makes a bear useless when trying to perform crowd control when xp grinding and farming. Does not make for fun tanking and and causes alot of bears to be booted from games when beckon does not land.

The thing is ... the OP isn't concerned about the vast majority of bears, who when they pull a mob, are likely to use stomp and send everybody all over the place, but rather PvP bears. Good PvP bears will go for str/dex and get enough hit and attack power to make things like blinding shot ineffective (assuming of course the bear didn't dodge the shot, which these days is very likely). The other thing to consider is that a very high percentage of players with crafted sets will PvP at endgame, which skews somewhat.

But fundamentally I think the end game gear is in need of a total rebalance. We now have int mages with 25%+ dodge and bears with 80%+ plus dodge. That's a bit out of control. It'd be one thing if they buffed damage or armor which is predictable or gave all bears a set of gear that made their hit 100% with pure strength (which I would actually support), but with dodge ... it's random.

[Phoenixking]

So did birds.

But the fact that classes can for each level cap bask if you will at each cap is the problem. Who wins most often in PvP shouldn't be about having the right class - it should be about timing, using the right move at the right time, reaction time, and situation awareness. I'm not saying lucky crits won't happen but overall over many matches.

Looking at this and other threads, judging by the fact that there has been a near consensus that each patch has brought one class that is OP, and the general lack of action by the devs, I can only conclude that PvP balance isn't a priority for the devs.
Bears are op in 17 below
mages are op in SSC and barely in 35, 30 is balanced birds had 45-50 at 55 it was balanced 60-66 mages 70 Luck

Mages and bears have more then birds, and birds were only op thanks to no GCD, just saying not that there is, they are barely op in 45-50

[WhoIsThis]

Bears are op in 17 below
mages are op in SSC and barely in 35, 30 is balanced birds had 45-50 at 55 it was balanced 60-66 mages 70 Luck

Mages and bears have more then birds, and birds were only op thanks to no GCD, just saying not that there is, they are barely op in 45-50

The OP is focused on the end game here.

[Otukura]

@Elf, how would you feel if a PRNG was implemented instead of the current RNG? Less luck, but it's still possible for crazy dodge streaks.

[Phoenixking]

The OP is focused on the end game here.
So why did you mention bird before? :o

[WarTornBird]

All classes,r even ._. Learn ur class
Birds. Still not even. Glad we got more dodge though. We still can't stack up against bears with 300 armor and mages with 299 armor.
And on the topic of bears being nerfed. If mages didn't get nerfed last cap. Then there is no reason bears should be nerfed now. We all dealt with OP mages for what 6 months? Now we deal with bears for 6 months. Time to hop out of the spotlight.

[Renovate]

Umm.. Well , Mages had been OP for the last few patches. Isn't it a bit fairer for bears to be OP now? About birds, patience ;P

[Petrichor]

I blame cloakypoo for this madness

[Fncrazy]

Do what pro's do... adjust, and quit crying. :p

[Matutd]

Birds. Still not even. Glad we got more dodge though. We still can't stack up against bears with 300 armor and mages with 299 armor.
And on the topic of bears being nerfed. If mages didn't get nerfed last cap. Then there is no reason bears should be nerfed now. We all dealt with OP mages for what 6 months? Now we deal with bears for 6 months. Time to hop out of the spotlight.
We got more dodge? My dodge unbuffed is 10. That's less than most bears and mages at endgame. Plus, I'm using penguin face AND +2 dodge ring, which I wasn't using during fang cap.

[CrimsonTider]

The thing is ... the OP isn't concerned about the vast majority of bears, who when they pull a mob, are likely to use stomp and send everybody all over the place, but rather PvP bears. Good PvP bears will go for str/dex and get enough hit and attack power to make things like blinding shot ineffective (assuming of course the bear didn't dodge the shot, which these days is very likely). The other thing to consider is that a very high percentage of players with crafted sets will PvP at endgame, which skews somewhat.

But fundamentally I think the end game gear is in need of a total rebalance. We now have int mages with 25%+ dodge and bears with 80%+ plus dodge. That's a bit out of control. It'd be one thing if they buffed damage or armor which is predictable or gave all bears a set of gear that made their hit 100% with pure strength (which I would actually support), but with dodge ... it's random.

A well educated post I actually agree with. I can handle a decrease in dodge (which therr was a decrease from Orlok as shown in my thread), if given a chance at 100% hit while pure strength. Maybe, as Tank said, a revamp of attribute points for each class is needed where strength adds more hit% for only bears while dex adds more hit% for birds and so on.

I honestly feel people get use to a class, use to winning, and when a challenge comes along, complain instead of finding new solutions.

[Dynastu]

Maybe everything seems OP since our skill damage is higher than our health pool. Lol!

[Chickenrunnn]

Now that devs enabled healing skill for birds when they are moving, birds can't kite and survive anymore.

Bears only pull, and kill the bird
Mages only drain, and the bird passes away..

Could you make something about birds : giving them back healing which would save them sometimes, even if they get headshotted anytime..

I've seen a str bear having 304 armor and 350 damage yesterday, doing 1 pull and 1 stomp, and getting a triple after dodging all skills. Is that normal?:(

Cya everyone :)

[OvigorothO]

This is just my opinion but, id be more concerned about how with each cap raise the avian class becomes more and more underpowered while ursans and mages get more powerful.

[Whirlzap]

Look guys, I never said Mages weren't OP.
Don't bias me or anything just because I use an OP mage.
What if I was a bear myself?
Bears ARE OP this cap.
And I'm talking only about PvP here, no PvE.
Your job in PvP is NOT to pull mobs and crowd control, it's to kill and tank, debuff and stun for your team.
This requires more than a PURE STR build for most endgame bears.
And when I made this thread, I meant a dual spec DEX/STR bear, but I guess it didn't come clear.

So we have the issue of Mage being OP.
I personally didn't like this issue.
And now we have bears being more OP than mages.
Does it HELP to keep ranting about how mages were OP and now they're hypocrites?
Does it HELP to keep shouting at mages for complaining about how they're not top-OP class anymore?
NO.
It helps if we all stop arguing about this class and that class and START POOLING SUGGESTIONS.
Maybe, some IDEAS to what could even out PvP.
Make it balanced.
And also, birds were OP during 50-56.
And birds are still pretty good right now if you're able to find a balanced fight.

[Whirlzap]

A well educated post I actually agree with. I can handle a decrease in dodge (which therr was a decrease from Orlok as shown in my thread), if given a chance at 100% hit while pure strength. Maybe, as Tank said, a revamp of attribute points for each class is needed where strength adds more hit% for only bears while dex adds more hit% for birds and so on.

I honestly feel people get use to a class, use to winning, and when a challenge comes along, complain instead of finding new solutions.

My post wasn't meant to complaing about me not winning.
It was meant to complain about imbalanced classes.
I would've personally made a "MAGES IS OP" thread during Fang, if others had not.
I agree, bears need more than 100% Hit, it is VITAL to PvE.
They need all that dodge, regen, and armor.

But that is in PvE.
In PvP, that is what makes them OP.

Best possible solution IMO is to just nerf stats to a lower extent in PvP.
Make it like Sewer cap again, when classes could go whatever build they wanted with the sewer oranges/greens/purples/pinks.
My mage went Scraper's (Dodge Staff Mage) for most of Sewers anyways.

[Fncrazy]

IMO the only class that really needs work is the birds.

[Phoenixking]

IMO the only class that really needs work is the birds.
Yes, it has to allow birds being able to kite more, the heal and a little more armor with some HS can help, plus more crit :P

[Elyseon]

My post wasn't meant to complaing about me not winning.
It was meant to complain about imbalanced classes.
I would've personally made a "MAGES IS OP" thread during Fang, if others had not.
I agree, bears need more than 100% Hit, it is VITAL to PvE.
They need all that dodge, regen, and armor.

But that is in PvE.
In PvP, that is what makes them OP.

Best possible solution IMO is to just nerf stats to a lower extent in PvP.
Make it like Sewer cap again, when classes could go whatever build they wanted with the sewer oranges/greens/purples/pinks.
My mage went Scraper's (Dodge Staff Mage) for most of Sewers anyways.
hmm i tried abit more and it seems mages are just dumb, when they let me pin them on the wall and dont heal off debuff, thats their fault, also angelic sets are really annoying, its taken me up to 10 tries to get beckon to hit a mage in one fight O.o
also ive had mages land 200+ dmg on me with out debuffing my dodge and not just like a one time thing like the 10 dodges thing
i lol'd calling them dodge mage, they respond no, im pure int, later i see them in towne, pure int with 24 dodge and no vanity bonus
i know that was kinda off topic and the crafted set doesnt have as ridiculous dodge

[Elyseon]

We got more dodge? My dodge unbuffed is 10. That's less than most bears and mages at endgame. Plus, I'm using penguin face AND +2 dodge ring, which I wasn't using during fang cap.

most crafted 71 birds ive seen have 55-60 dodge buffed

[Elitephonix]

I thought you guys were just complaining that the bears now suck? >_>

[Phoenixking]

I thought you guys were just complaining that the bears now suck? >_>
Majority of mages complaining that bears are tough, I think bears are ok, birds need help though In my opinion

[Waug]

Interesting!!!!!!!
I knew this gonna happen, mages r shouting bears are op. its acctually birds always shout mages are op..and bears think birds are op when they face some good birds at pvp...sts lauging behind the scene....

Bears have solid dodge unfortunately mages hit percentage is not as high as an eagle EYE archer and specifically loooooow dodge debuff something like 15% woha...lol....a nuker mage will give up after few shots and a good kite mage will feel pain in her deadliest weapon finger and finally joy of killing " the monster" ....

[Dynastu]

Interesting!!!!!!!
I knew this gonna happen, mages r shouting bears are op. its acctually birds always shout mages are op..and bears think birds are op when they face some good birds at pvp...sts lauging behind the scene....

Bears have solid dodge unfortunately mages hit percentage is not as high as an eagle EYE archer and specifically loooooow dodge debuff something like 15% woha...lol....a nuker mage will give up after few shots and a good kite mage will feel pain in her deadliest weapon finger and finally joy of killing " the monster" ....

I wasn't aware that bears ever complain about birds being OP lol.

[Fncrazy]

I wasn't aware that bears ever complain about birds being OP lol.

Yes pro birds are tough for bears to beat.

[Dynastu]

and bears think birds are op when they face some good birds at pvp...


By saying that, isn't it kind of saying that birds and bears are even, lol.

So, pro birds beat an average bear. Would you say a pro bear beats an average bird? Then, what about an average bird vs an average bear?

If you had said that an average bird easily beats an average bear (which I do not believe to be true), that would actually mean that birds are the more powerful class. But by saying that a pro bird can beat an average bear doesn't prove anything.

[WhoIsThis]

@Elf, how would you feel if a PRNG was implemented instead of the current RNG? Less luck, but it's still possible for crazy dodge streaks.

Pseudorandom - I'd still prefer that dodge got nerfed and that armor and/or hp regen got the buff. In the case of mages, perhaps attack and spell power rather than armor should be buffed. Same thing with birds.


So why did you mention bird before? :o

56, 61, and 66 used to be the endgame.

[Chickenrunnn]

Oh godness.. I've just got hit 531 by a drain of a Mage with full crafted set.. --> headshot :-(

Without Cop bonus, birds are really really bad.. Please do something about it :(.. Lower bear dodge or armor or damage and lower damage for serial killers which are Mages lol._... or if u don't do anything about skills of Mage n bears, please make RESTORE of birds working back !:( or do the same for mages! Enable them to heal while working as u did with bears and birds!:(

._. Cya lol

[Whirlzap]

Give birds more resistance to pulls/knockbacks.
Make their Blast Shot and Repulse have 100% Accuracy, so it cannot be dodged.

[Phoenixking]

Pseudorandom - I'd still prefer that dodge got nerfed and that armor and/or hp regen got the buff. In the case of mages, perhaps attack and spell power rather than armor should be buffed. Same thing with birds.



56, 61, and 66 used to be the endgame.
And so was 50 and 45 and 40 and 35 and 30 and 25 oh gawd

[Deuvevax]

Wait. So are you confessing that Pally is a good decision for mages this cap? I'm testing some things and it seems it could be the superior option.


~Deu

[Elyseon]

By saying that, isn't it kind of saying that birds and bears are even, lol.

So, pro birds beat an average bear. Would you say a pro bear beats an average bird? Then, what about an average bird vs an average bear?

If you had said that an average bird easily beats an average bear (which I do not believe to be true), that would actually mean that birds are the more powerful class. But by saying that a pro bird can beat an average bear doesn't prove anything.
yeh um i fought crafted bird killed it with my humanian set, but then some birds ive fought are like crazy fast at killing me usually as long as they dodge the beckon
on the other hand a sucessful beckon first try is almost always an instant death for a bird

[Elyseon]

I thought you guys were just complaining that the bears now suck? >_>

i did say this but for me at least, it was vsing the angelic mages which i still think are quite annoying

[OvigorothO]

birds were OP during 50-56.
And birds are still pretty good right now if you're able to find a balanced fight.[/QUOTE]
Im sure most people would agree that there was no dominant class at 50-56, only dominant players which mostly happened to be birds.

EDIT: lol...fail quoted whirlzap.

[MightyMicah]

Haven't read the comments yet. I'd have to say I completely disagree with the purpose of this thread. Bears are mildy OP. they simply can finally beat mages 10-3 like they should be able to. Mages have been beating birds 10-3 like they're supposed to. birds have been beating bears 10-3 like they're supposed to. The only thing that happened at this cap, is bears regained their status with their ability to own mages and then a little bit more so that they can even beat birds more than usual. There is nothing wrong with this. No level is ever completely balanced. This one just so happens to be in favor of bears. I, for one, am glad.

Oh and I'm a bird by the way so I get the short end of the stick and am still glad ;)

[OvigorothO]

Give birds more resistance to pulls/knockbacks.
Make their Blast Shot and Repulse have 100% Accuracy, so it cannot be dodged.

What would that solve? You would have birds repulsing always just to run away.

[OvigorothO]

And so was 50 and 45 and 40 and 35 and 30 and 25 oh gawd

If im not mistaken 21 also was?

[Waug]

By saying that, isn't it kind of saying that birds and bears are even, lol.

So, pro birds beat an average bear. Would you say a pro bear beats an average bird? Then, what about an average bird vs an average bear?

If you had said that an average bird easily beats an average bear (which I do not believe to be true), that would actually mean that birds are the more powerful class. But by saying that a pro bird can beat an average bear doesn't prove anything.

A bear (very new to pvp kdr something like 20 kills 60 deaths) was saying bears always win against birds and his opponent bird nearly. same kdr was agreed with him...I did not say anything but like lolol....

Umm pro bird... meant good birds who acctually know how to use his powers.. somtime its feel like birds skills r build to fight bears. lol ...two roots strong dodge debuff. blind to weaken his already weak vision (lol) 32 armor debuff makes his fat body exposed..umm the monster can't even touch me my repulse or mega repulse makes his feet slide...'...........ahhhh I never miss my hits, I'm invincible' (not me lol)

[Elyseon]

I did not. say pro bird...I meant good birds who acctually know how to use his powers..I somtime feel like birds skills r build to fight bears. lol ...two roots strong dodge debuff. blind to weaken his already weak vision (lol) 32 armor debuff makes his fat body exposed..umm the monster can't even touch me my repulse or mega repulse makes his feet slide...'...........ahhhh I never miss my hits, I'm invincible' (not me lol)
Lol that 'invincibility' spree can also end in 1 beckon + an auto

[Whirlzap]

A bear (very new to pvp kdr something like 20 kills 60 deaths) was saying bears always win against birds and his opponent bird nearly. same kdr was agreed with him...I did not say anything but like lolol....

Umm pro bird... meant good birds who acctually know how to use his powers.. somtime its feel like birds skills r build to fight bears. lol ...two roots strong dodge debuff. blind to weaken his already weak vision (lol) 32 armor debuff makes his fat body exposed..umm the monster can't even touch me my repulse or mega repulse makes his feet slide...'...........ahhhh I never miss my hits, I'm invincible' (not me lol)


Yo what happens when they dodge your "strong" dodge debuffs, blind, and repulse?

[plmafiaboss]

Do what pro's do... adjust, and quit crying. :pthis. Is a smart man.

[-kyleww]

When will it be the bird's turn to be OP? lol
birds are meant to do the most damage but the bears and mages can do just as much damage, if not more. also we need more dodge, with our sets we only have about 10 unbuffed where as the mages have 20 and bears have 40+.

[Phoenixking]

If im not mistaken 21 also was?
20* and maybe I don't remember, but 25 definitely was

[Dynastu]

A bear (very new to pvp kdr something like 20 kills 60 deaths) was saying bears always win against birds and his opponent bird nearly. same kdr was agreed with him...I did not say anything but like lolol....

Umm pro bird... meant good birds who acctually know how to use his powers.. somtime its feel like birds skills r build to fight bears. lol ...two roots strong dodge debuff. blind to weaken his already weak vision (lol) 32 armor debuff makes his fat body exposed..umm the monster can't even touch me my repulse or mega repulse makes his feet slide...'...........ahhhh I never miss my hits, I'm invincible' (not me lol)

Not trying to come off rude, but I don't really understand your first paragraph.

But, here's what happens most of the time. Birds have a 20% chance to hit their root vs a str bear. No, hit % and dodge are not on the same roll (although I wish they were). If a bird manages to hit root with that 20% chance, then you STILL only have a 45% chance of landing the fairly INSIGNIFICANT 32 armor debuff (32/275 or so). Eventually the dodge debuff wears off. Chances of landing any given individual skill are back to 20% until the bear's evasion is gone. OR, you miss your root to begin with (much more likely), and your chances of landing break armor are low.

I cannot tell you how many times Elyseon has two hit KO'd my bird. Most of the time the deciding factor is whether or not the bear lands his first or second beckon. I don't think that dodge should be the deciding factor in pvp.

[Swords]

Bears cant be immortal forever.... Just kite the F out of them, :D

[Deathofan]

Idc how much dodge bears have thats their role dodge, hp regen, and armor but devs need to work on strengh gear and take some hit off it... Bears shouldnt argue about it since hit wasnt made for bears probably 90-100% hit would be good with crafted set (160str, 194-199dex build) , but 126%........ Is too much

[CrimsonTider]

Idc how much dodge bears have thats their role dodge, hp regen, and armor but devs need to work on strengh gear and take some hit off it... Bears shouldnt argue about it since hit wasnt made for bears probably 90-100% hit would be good with crafted set (160str, 194-199dex build) , but 126%........ Is too much

Bears don't have 126% hit with that build. 111-13% is max based on face and ring.

[JaytB]

Idc how much dodge bears have thats their role dodge, hp regen, and armor but devs need to work on strengh gear and take some hit off it... Bears shouldnt argue about it since hit wasnt made for bears probably 90-100% hit would be good with crafted set (160str, 194-199dex build) , but 126%........ Is too much

If they would take even more hit away from bears, they would become even more useless in PvE than they are already. And yeah 126% hit is exaggerated.

[Fncrazy]

Idc how much dodge bears have thats their role dodge, hp regen, and armor but devs need to work on strengh gear and take some hit off it... Bears shouldnt argue about it since hit wasnt made for bears probably 90-100% hit would be good with crafted set (160str, 194-199dex build) , but 126%........ Is too much

Dude if I had that 126 hit% I would pwn all u noobs :p