I HATE Pisces Daggers

[Pine]

sts you gotta be kidding at us with this weapon
I just died at 600k trying to proc for 12 goddamn times literally 12 charged attacks and I ran out of time
I love when there is nothing I can do to make my weapon proc!!!!!
FUN!!!!!!

[tailwarrior]

yeah worst case you will never proc till the timer ends.🥲 It's all about your luck.

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[Synergia]

I don't understand why wont they make it that after 3-4 times it would have 100% proc? 3-4 charged attacks are a long time where you risk your life so it make sense that on the 5th you will have an increased chance..
anyway arcanes are coming soon so lets cross fingers

[ItsNotOrange]

Had the same issue, tried to proc the pisces and it didnt proc at all till the timer off :,)

[championboost]

just play again for one hour to get there and use elixirs for 1mil

[Skeleton Mike]

The damage is Arcane but that proc chance sure feels mythic XD

[Encryptions]

I charge 34x in a row and no proc, got wave 97 and died during kraken vest proc because it refused to proc but I will try again and again.

[Tackled]

These have to be the worst mythic weapons polaris isn’t any better it took me literally 50 seconds to proc it once like

[Darkrai]

What are you complaining about? In my opinion having an competitive leaderboard based on if u proc your weapons or not seems like such fun! Even when you don't proc the feeling of knowing you could have gone further if the weapon just had procd keeps you coming back to try agian!

Its not like mob hp is based around weapon procs or anything

[Synergia]

The damage is Arcane but that proc chance sure feels mythic XD

You mean damage is arcane proc rate is legendary

[fikrialithaufik]

If you say so,
What about worse weapon below Pisces dagger ?


Even the best weapon is not enough for you

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[Pulaxgang]

I died wave 98 using ebony vest cos proc . Some get lucky some don't. But you get back up and try again.

[ItsTwelv]

Just yes T.T

[Synergia]

If you say so,
What about worse weapon below Pisces dagger ?


Even the best weapon is not enough for you

Sent from my Infinix X6812B using Tapatalk

Can you read?
No one is saying the "best weapon" is bad
The problem is proc rate where you need to get close and personal and doing long charged attacks and around 1/10 waves where the first 5 charged attacks dont proc you are dead and there is nothing you can do.
Learn how to read.

[Greazemk]

If you say so,
What about worse weapon below Pisces dagger ?


Even the best weapon is not enough for you

Sent from my Infinix X6812B using Tapatalk

You take everything as an insult. I feel bad for you and your friends

[terapan]

AWOKWOKAWOKWOK explain why #1 Rogue leaderboard just sittin on #20 overall 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Orderly]

I don't understand why wont they make it that after 3-4 times it would have 100% proc? 3-4 charged attacks are a long time where you risk your life so it make sense that on the 5th you will have an increased chance..
anyway arcanes are coming soon so lets cross fingers

I experience this same thing with arcane armor. Have gone two whole waves spamming with no proc after i first hotbar it on. Aquaris I always know exactly when it will proc but I be dying trying to get kraken to go off.

[flashio]

Hopefully some day players will be able to play this game smoothly without relying on rng procs in order to avance, procs should be an aid to make gameplay faster, not an imperative to clear content.

As of right now, players can't clear anything endgame related unless a proc activates.

[fikrialithaufik]

Can you read?
No one is saying the "best weapon" is bad
The problem is proc rate where you need to get close and personal and doing long charged attacks and around 1/10 waves where the first 5 charged attacks dont proc you are dead and there is nothing you can do.
Learn how to read.And u still cryin ?

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[Holyshox]

Let them proc by use laugh emote [emoji848]

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[Amicusdei]

Pisces should proc on normal attack, not charged.
Ultimates for rog are also terrible.
Rogues are a charity toon, no one wants them but good ppl will tolerate them.
Sts has made a great game but these ebbs and flows of imbalance of characters should have been solved a long time ago.

[Read]

Pisces should proc on normal attack, not charged.
Ultimates for rog are also terrible.
Rogues are a charity toon, no one wants them but good ppl will tolerate them.
Sts has made a great game but these ebbs and flows of imbalance of characters should have been solved a long time ago.

Well said. Couldn't agree more. Rogue is *decent* if you have end game items and loads of gold. But in terms of overall effectiveness in a map, in comparison to mages and warriors, its lacking. If the same amount of gold spent on a rogue account, was spent on a warrior or mage account, the gap would be clearly highlighted, the gap in overall damage and usefulness of rogues that is. The kraken armor does lessen the gap indeed for rogues. But the gap still exists because of how bothersome aligning procs and ult can be (elite sunken map). Those who run rogue will know.

Usually the pattern now in the elite sunken map (where gold loot=highly effective) is, Warriors annihilate bosses and Mages annihilate mobs and have the potential of doing 3/4 of the hp bar of a boss with 3 good items (those who run mage will know). Rogues have a fusion of both on a less effective level which (I) personally find challenging and fun. But it gets extremely irritating because the proc is very unpredictable and random most of the time. Small proc changes perhaps seem to be the solution. Let us hope for the best.

[Lawpvp]

Pisces should proc on normal attack, not charged.
Ultimates for rog are also terrible.
Rogues are a charity toon, no one wants them but good ppl will tolerate them.
Sts has made a great game but these ebbs and flows of imbalance of characters should have been solved a long time ago.

Charity toon? lol a well geared rogue is and will always be the best class. Just the most expensive too.

[tailwarrior]

Charity toon? lol a well geared rogue is and will always be the best class. Just the most expensive too.see lb rouge for dragkin, best class right?

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[Ploid]

see lb rouge for dragkin, best class right?

Sent from my M2010J19CI using TapatalkNot sure why you are basing the classes solely on what they can do in events.

In case you are blind, there's only about 100k difference in top 50 of each class.

There's slight difference between top 1 Warrior and Top 1 mage while Rogue are pretty significantly behind.

BUT THAT'S TO BE EXPECTED. Mages are supposed to be the AoE damage dealing and mob controlling class.

And guess what this event is about? CLEARING MOBS! PRETTY SHOCKING RIGHT?

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[Hilo]

Selling Mistle-toe aura

[tailwarrior]

Not sure why you are basing the classes solely on what they can do in events.

In case you are blind, there's only about 100k difference in top 50 of each class.

There's slight difference between top 1 Warrior and Top 1 mage while Rogue are pretty significantly behind.

BUT THAT'S TO BE EXPECTED. Mages are supposed to be the AoE damage dealing and mob controlling class.

And guess what this event is about? CLEARING MOBS! PRETTY SHOCKING RIGHT?

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalkok tell me what is rouge is special for?
since you're not blind

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[Synergia]

Not sure why you are basing the classes solely on what they can do in events.

In case you are blind, there's only about 100k difference in top 50 of each class.

There's slight difference between top 1 Warrior and Top 1 mage while Rogue are pretty significantly behind.

BUT THAT'S TO BE EXPECTED. Mages are supposed to be the AoE damage dealing and mob controlling class.

And guess what this event is about? CLEARING MOBS! PRETTY SHOCKING RIGHT?

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Ploid, rogues are trash compare to other classes there is no denying that, and if you still deny then it means that you havent played a rogue in a long time.
I am done complaining about it, it seems no matter how many years rogues will stay behind the other classes, nothing will change.
I personally switched class to mage with same main states (2400) and I am literally doing everything x2 times better
If mages are good against mobs? ok. then so what rogues are good against? boss? I kill boss now x2 faster with same stats as mage and bedsides warrior are the tanks nukers.

the only reason they made temple & gauntlet 1 from each class was because every single rogue had the problem of finding a party in the EVG expansion and its like that since then and deep inside you know that.

[Lawpvp]

see lb rouge for dragkin, best class right?

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If that's how you assess best class, then lol

[Amicusdei]

I certainly agree with the aoe comment.
Unfortunately at endgame, Polaris has put the warrior in place of the rogue for targeted damage.
It's just a matter of the proc. When it hits, nothing is going to survive. The map or boss is irrelevant.
I'm not saying nerf the warrior, goodness knows they've had their times at the bottom, just help the rogue be relevant.

[tailwarrior]

If that's how you assess best class, then lolok dude I was wrong, rouge is the best class in game. I don't even care now. Nothing gonna change even if I say something. Sorry for wasting your time.

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[GucciBang]

Reboleixo é bom bom reboleixo é bombombom

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[asommers]

We're considering updating the daggers to have an increase the proc chance on every unsuccessful charge. You were not meant to go long stretches without a proc. A similar change will be made to other weapons, if applicable.

-ALS

[Mynzz]

We're considering updating the daggers to have an increase the proc chance on every unsuccessful charge. You were not meant to go long stretches without a proc. A similar change will be made to other weapons, if applicable.

-ALS

:) that’s nice

[Synergia]

We're considering updating the daggers to have an increase the proc chance on every unsuccessful charge. You were not meant to go long stretches without a proc. A similar change will be made to other weapons, if applicable.

-ALS

I suggested that a long time ago.... but you guys said you already made alot of changes to this weapon and don't wanna change them once again and keep ur focus on arcanes

[Skeleton Mike]

We're considering updating the daggers to have an increase the proc chance on every unsuccessful charge. You were not meant to go long stretches without a proc. A similar change will be made to other weapons, if applicable.

-ALS

Ayyy! thats some good news!

[Ploid]

Ploid, rogues are trash compare to other classes there is no denying that, and if you still deny then it means that you havent played a rogue in a long time.
I am done complaining about it, it seems no matter how many years rogues will stay behind the other classes, nothing will change.
I personally switched class to mage with same main states (2400) and I am literally doing everything x2 times better
If mages are good against mobs? ok. then so what rogues are good against? boss? I kill boss now x2 faster with same stats as mage and bedsides warrior are the tanks nukers.

the only reason they made temple & gauntlet 1 from each class was because every single rogue had the problem of finding a party in the EVG expansion and its like that since then and deep inside you know that.That is the problem. Every class should excel at certain things to keep everything balanced.

Mages are strong in Elite Sunken since it's easy to align procs there. But in maps like Elite Rahabkor, and other portal bosses, we don't do as much damage as we would like to.

Personally, Rogue's Pisces are great. They give huge stats boost (similar to Aquaris) and apply a pretty good DoT. The only bad thing about rogue is their pisces takes time to proc, but when it does, it's better than Aquaris on its own.

Even Marianos by itself does more than to boss than Hyperos or Aquaris on their own. So clearly rogue is superior to Mages on 1 item in terms of killing bosses.

I think Warriors are great atm overall. They can onehit all miniboss, and they can nuke main bosses in Elite Sunken as well as portal bosses.

Blessful has the fastest timing on most Elite Zodias maps and he did em solo.

I haven't been using smugg gun with my Aquaris proc maybe that's why I think mage damage is lackluster to bosses. But I am just comparing the classes on just 1 item.

I have seen Rogue's nuking any elite boss with Pisces Proc + Ultimate aimed shot. And i have also seen a warrior with MUCH less stats than me Nuking bosses while I am tickling them.

Mages are really strong when their procs are all aligning.

It's just Mages shine when there are a lot of mobs, Rogues and Warriors are better when there are only few.

Each class has their strength and weaknesses. Warriors and Rogues in general get cucked by many mobs while Mages shine the brightest.

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[Holyshox]

I suggested that a long time ago.... but you guys said you already made alot of changes to this weapon and don't wanna change them once again and keep ur focus on arcanesWell said.

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[Encryptions]

Video just shows.
https://youtu.be/aw7IwfcASKE


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[Read]

We're considering updating the daggers to have an increase the proc chance on every unsuccessful charge. You were not meant to go long stretches without a proc. A similar change will be made to other weapons, if applicable.

-ALS

This post is delightful to see. It is nice to know that their is a team actively looking into fixing actual in game issues with classes. So that all classes can be equally fun to play with.

[Switchback]

This post is delightful to see. It is nice to know that their is a team actively looking into fixing actual in game issues with classes. So that all classes can be equally fun to play with.

Its been way too long since release to be praising them for fixing their badly designed items lmao.

[Sulphurea]

It's literally since day 1 that all.of us ask for fixing/improving both weapons and seems always devs come out of darkness realizing maybe they should do something after a trillion year lol i will never ever understand their mo. Like in event: day one, drops rain; day2, desert lol nice balance as usual

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[asommers]

Looked into this, but probably need more information since I am not able to reproduce the problem. I am able to proc Pisces based on how I see the data for the weapon is set up. Per charge, there's a 35% chance to proc if there isn't a weapon proc cooldown (15s) in progress. I do feel like 3 out of 10 times I can successfully proc Pisces.

Maybe what I need to do is make the weapon proc cooldown timer temporarily visible with a hud icon so we can at least see if the weapon proc cooldown timer is what's preventing you from proc'ing.

Then again, I'm only using Pisces during my testing so your weapon usage setup may be different than mine.

-ALS

[tailwarrior]

The issue is the time it takes to proc. When we were doing temple lb, in worst cases, the dagger never proc even after the full wave is over (like 60s). If you take mage staff, it procs within 10s. Please do look into it.

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[tailwarrior]

Either you have to increase the proc rate for every unsuccessful charge or allow charged skills to also have a chance to proc the weapon. I prefer the first option since it makes sure that we can proc the weapon within 4 or 5 charges.

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[snakeeyes]

Looked into this, but probably need more information since I am not able to reproduce the problem. I am able to proc Pisces based on how I see the data for the weapon is set up. Per charge, there's a 35% chance to proc if there isn't a weapon proc cooldown (15s) in progress. I do feel like 3 out of 10 times I can successfully proc Pisces.

Maybe what I need to do is make the weapon proc cooldown timer temporarily visible with a hud icon so we can at least see if the weapon proc cooldown timer is what's preventing you from proc'ing.

Then again, I'm only using Pisces during my testing so your weapon usage setup may be different than mine.

-ALS

proc cd of pisces is same as proc cd of aquarius and nepta/pola? why it is so hard to proc but aqua and pola is not? i experience it too 5x-10x not able to proc it is ok for that if we have skill shield like warior and mage but sometime trying to proc this pisces make us die in an instant. the same problem with zodias spirit dagger reflect is a proc of a tanker but make the mobs hit us is a gamble to die 90% chance.

[asommers]

Appreciate the feedback, but I'm guessing you didn't read a single thing I wrote. I know what the issue is, the weapon isn't proc'ing when you think it should, but in my tests it does (33% of the time I use charges, or roughly every 15 seconds).

Telling me how I should "fix" it does nothing -- I'll know how to fix it once I find the problem. I need to be able to reproduce the problem first.

What I've decided to do is add a visible weapon proc cooldown hud icon. When this icon is visible, it means your weapon will not proc. The number inside the icon represents the cooldown duration. I currently see this when I successfully proc, but maybe something else is modifying the weapon proc cooldown timer. This will be available in tomorrow's Labyrinth update.

-ALS

248528

[tailwarrior]

ok that will help a lot too. I'll do some test runs to see if it the timer starts for a unsuccessful charge or some other case. Thanks for looking into it.

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[Ploid]

Appreciate the feedback, but I'm guessing you didn't read a single thing I wrote. I know what the issue is, the weapon isn't proc'ing when you think it should, but in my tests it does (33% of the time I use charges, or roughly every 15 seconds).

Telling me how I should "fix" it does nothing -- I'll know how to fix it once I find the problem. I need to be able to reproduce the problem first.

What I've decided to do is add a visible weapon proc cooldown hud icon. When this icon is visible, it means your weapon will not proc. The number inside the icon represents the cooldown duration. I currently see this when I successfully proc, but maybe something else is modifying the weapon proc cooldown timer. This will be available in tomorrow's Labyrinth update.

-ALS

248528They are complaining because pisces takes time to proc and isn't instant like Aquaris. Basically.

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[Disagrees]

That's the gist of the whole thread. The concept of charged attacks to proc will always take time compared to a basic/skill based attack to proc. I think it is the same case for polaris too. I'm sure nothing can be done to stop their complaints.

[Synergia]

The problem, again is the randomness.
@Asommers
If you try to run solo evg for example,
You will see that indeed in most waves you will proc during the first 3 charged attacks.
But 1/10 times, you will not proc untill after the 7th-8th charged attacks.

And this is the problem.
Frustrating since ur life & score depends on it, and there is nothing you can do.

Rogue Temple LB / EVG LB is about who is getting unlucky / lucky, while mage LB for example is all about gears / skill, since there is no way a mage will not proc their gears instantly.

All we are asking for, is to make sure the weapon proc wont take MORE than 4-5 charged attacks.

We dont ask to proc it on the first time 100% of the time, just asking to avoid the long streches that happen sometimes.
5 charged attacks is a long time where you get close and personal to ur enemies, if that will be the maximum possible attacks we need to do, it will solve it I believe.

[Sulphurea]

For me the problem is exactly the time of cool down. That should be reduced. It's way too long for a paper toon as rogue. We don't have skills that help us survive beside razor that only reduce damage so that long cd is deadly for us. This is the problem

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[Pine]

The problem, again is the randomness.
@Asommers
If you try to run solo evg for example,
You will see that indeed in most waves you will proc during the first 3 charged attacks.
But 1/10 times, you will not proc untill after the 7th-8th charged attacks.

And this is the problem.
Frustrating since ur life & score depends on it, and there is nothing you can do.

Rogue Temple LB / EVG LB is about who is getting unlucky / lucky, while mage LB for example is all about gears / skill, since there is no way a mage will not proc their gears instantly.

All we are asking for, is to make sure the weapon proc wont take MORE than 4-5 charged attacks.

We dont ask to proc it on the first time 100% of the time, just asking to avoid the long streches that happen sometimes.
5 charged attacks is a long time where you get close and personal to ur enemies, if that will be the maximum possible attacks we need to do, it will solve it I believe.

The reason i made this thread is because it took me 12 times to proc this stupid weapon in one of the waves and if it proced earlier this whole thread probably would not existed lol

[asommers]

The cooldown time could be an separate issue, but that's not what OP claimed. A proc'less run of 12 charges w/ a 35% chance per charge is not likely (not saying it didn't happen), and there was even another anecdote of 37 charges with no proc, so something else may be blocking it. The only other thing that can block a weapon proc besides the chance is the weapon proc cooldown timer. For a little while, this will be temporarily visible so we can figure this out.

Roll a die 12 times, how likely is not getting a 1 or 2 in the entire run? Even with the random chance, after 12 rolls, you should still statistically 1 or 2 several times.

Help me help you.

-ALS

[Synergia]

I think the 37 times claim is fake
However I had times where it took 8-10 times fully charged attacks on EVG waves, so I imagine 12 times can happen. Rarely but can.

Just try it urself, in evg.
If you try to proc it on everywave you will too have these waves where you get to the 8th time or more almost every run you would have these waves which effects ur score.

I truly understand what you are saying @Asommers but don't forget that when people use it in Temple / EVG / EZG chance you are talking about is not happening everytime.
what I am saying by that is
Player 1: failed to proc after 8 times and died at wave 30
Player 2: Failed to proc after 8 times and died at wave 70
let's say prior to the deaths they all proced at first 5 times as it should be.

both of them has done the same exact thing, with same gears.
so why player 2 gets the better score?

I hope you understand my explaination

[asommers]

The weapon proc cooldown timer visibility change just went out (https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?653658-2022-09-22-Content-Update-(295734)), so you can test it now and give me feedback as to what you see. Pay particularly close attention to the number inside the box as well. If it's 15 and you just proc'ed, it's most likely the Pisces itself blocking the proc, but if it's not 15, that means it's something else.

-ALS

[tailwarrior]

You guys gave two weapons to rouge, bow(marianos) and dagger(pisces). Both the weapons needed charging to bring out it's potential. But for the other classes, only one weapon required charge(hyperos and polaris).
I don't even want to compare rouge with other classes. But dagger is the main weapon most of us prefer the most. I still think charging is the problem here and randomness of a charged weapon.
eg) If you are lucky enough, marianos can help you reach infested lb

But since you mentioned that the problem might be in weapon cooldown timer. I'll work on running with it and tell you if there is any issue.

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[snakeeyes]

the 1st buffs icon now is useless, this cd proc timer much better and give usefull icon to use thanks @asommers but 15 sec cd is not good for hard procking pisces maybe you change it at least 10-13 sec its good for hard to proc weapons.

[Ploid]

You guys gave two weapons to rouge, bow(marianos) and dagger(pisces). Both the weapons needed charging to bring out it's potential. But for the other classes, only one weapon required charge(hyperos and polaris).
I don't even want to compare rouge with other classes. But dagger is the main weapon most of us prefer the most. I still think charging is the problem here and randomness of a charged weapon.
eg) If you are lucky enough, marianos can help you reach infested lb

But since you mentioned that the problem might be in weapon cooldown timer. I'll work on running with it and tell you if there is any issue.

Sent from my M2010J19CI using TapatalkWarriors also have two weapons in which they need to attack to proc the weapon.

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[snakeeyes]

sts bring back the warior class to tank class only op damage on mobs only and make their weapons same as proc as pisces, and exchange the rage ulti (x5 dex)to ultimate aim (hammer) of rogue so we feel the arc 81 helm usefull for rogues.😁😁😁

[Sulphurea]

The cooldown time could be an separate issue, but that's not what OP claimed. A proc'less run of 12 charges w/ a 35% chance per charge is not likely (not saying it didn't happen), and there was even another anecdote of 37 charges with no proc, so something else may be blocking it. The only other thing that can block a weapon proc besides the chance is the weapon proc cooldown timer. For a little while, this will be temporarily visible so we can figure this out.

Roll a die 12 times, how likely is not getting a 1 or 2 in the entire run? Even with the random chance, after 12 rolls, you should still statistically 1 or 2 several times.

Help me help you.

-ALSOfc this is not strictly the topic, bit since you here and you paying attention to this subject, why not dig also a bit into this. To have an idea, just try to run in timekeeper and see how many times you die due to too long cd. For me that's the all problem of pisces. For example cd of mariano is much better. What i noticed weirdly is also that if i use bow proc, then i switch to daggs, daggs proc faster than if i proc daggs and then i wanna reproc them. If you could finally make some improvements to this weapon why not doing it since you already checking it?

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[Sulphurea]

Plus months ago i wrote about a "bug" of pisces, to which i never received any sort of answer. Even if is no bug, i would like an explanation of it. It occurs when two rogue use pisces and they proc one after another, the second proc starts to spam alot of bends even if there is only one target, would be cool to understand why

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[asommers]

Locking thread due to lack of response. Discussion has moved to this thread (https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?655058-YAPT!-(Yet-another-Pisces-thread)).

-ALS