Every ELITE Vanity Items should be SAME.

[Amilys]

Again, a thread about elite vanities. Many people insists that the past elite vanities' bonus on stats is ok cuz they earned em. Listen. What about people who did same thing like in past vanity set to earn the new elite vanitiy set? They even spent more platinum, more time and effort. But now, what dev is saying is that we dont get the bonus in stats lol. LOL. Access to ELITE dungeon?? ha.. We cant even join parties in elite dungeon if we dont have elixir or good equipments. And obviously, we dont earn gold in elite dungeon much, but other maps like sandbar lagoon.
IT IS NOT FAIR GIVING DIFFERENT BONUS OR EFFECTS IN PAST AND NEW ELITE VANITY SET. Every elite vanity set, past or future should have same advantages, either bonus in stats or appearance.
I insist tht dev should unite the effect. They should choose to remove the bonus in stats on past elite vanity set, or also give bonus in stats at new elite vanity set.


Also, another discussion. I feel cheated in MFA lol. Do u know how many people expected stat bonus on equipping mfa and monarch helm? If they are not supposed to give any bonus in stats, STS should have announced it. It is very rude and bizzare to say "they are not for set. 71,76,81 vanity item is set". So what was the platinum we spent for mfa? lol Appearance? I would not spend like 400 plat for that cool appearance lol. Angel gears? We can just spend $50 bucks and save 800 plat for new thrasher parties in humania. No need to farm for MFA. I feel cautious why people do not fight with STS on this issue. But I think monarch and MFA should also give bonus in stats, or else, it means STS fooled us.


Plus, dear to the players who already have past elite vanity set, why are u guys behaving so cheap and dirty in letting new elite players get bonus in stats with new elite vanity set? I cant believe u guys want that special bonus only on u. People must be able to earn those bonus by farming for elite vanities. How can u guys insist that new vanity set should not give bonus in stats? Lol. Thats very SELFISH thing to do as a old, elite, player.
(Sorry to players who insists that new elite vanity set should have bonus in stats or bonus in stats in past vanity set should be removed even though already have past vanity set)

[LwMark]

I was looking so forward to havin a elite bonus with "new crown" from humania, i only have MFA and Monarch. I missed the other two because i was mad noobish, once i found out that it wasnt goin to have a bonus i was upset, but after time went on and i saw the new "helm" it wasnt somethin as awesome lookin like Cop, so i didnt really stress getting it, I actually wantrd to hit 71 just to get a new face an equip my swordfish , ive only wore the helm a couple times, thats y i have hard time givin up my dragon , its only bonus i got, i wish sts would make MTA get a lil bonus with Monarch, i honestly dont know if i woulda grinded to get mfa if it was just looks, ive heard somethin about rings? Maybe u guys should just make a small bonus for mfa and monarch then just start makin rings, but then people would be like i missed the mfa why shoild i get monarch if theres no bonus, so that kind a weird situation, dont remove the stats from old elites also because if i had them i would be pissssed and sts wouldnt do that rhey.know people worked hard to get them. But it is a good thing sts is making vanity bonus sets because it helps me say like me who missed out get some bonus, the first 4 elites are like founders helm, if u were here u gotem if u didnt well you cant getem no more, sts will ded do somethin for new players who missed out they wouldnt leave eveeyone hangin without somethin they worked hard for, so whatever they do , ik it will probably be best idea, we should be wanting to see how to make everything better then chamgin old things and goin back, just my thoughts, sorry for ramble lol

Also i was looking so dorward to having a "crown" i remmeber hearing Sam say theres gonna.be a new crown, but now its friggin "helm" lol, i dont have valcano vanity, does that have crown in its name?

[DataPunk]

What would be elite about them if they all where the same?

[NECROREAPER]

You seem very upset, making multiple threads about the same thing and ranting bout how you want something changed.

If there's one thing you NEED tolearn about this game/forum is:

Their game, their rules.

[saool]

You seem very upset, making multiple threads about the same thing and ranting bout how you want something changed.

If there's one thing you NEED tolearn about this game/forum is:

Their game, their rules.

Yup this^

[Lowlyspy]

Yup this^
Sao, you're 71, explain somethin to me. Do you have to be 71 to get into the dungeon or do you have to have the 71 vanity? I'm still fuzzy on that.

[Kaytar]

Yup this^
Sao, you're 71, explain somethin to me. Do you have to be 71 to get into the dungeon or do you have to have the 71 vanity? I'm still fuzzy on that.You have to wear Monarch Helm of Humania to get into the level 71 dungeon.
Only once though

[Lowlyspy]

You have to wear Monarch Helm of Humania to get into the level 71 dungeon.
Only once though

Figured that was how it was. Well, so long as the helm isn't required after the 76 update i don't see an issue with capped people having exclusive access to the dungeon right now, early access for the elite capping seems like a fair deal to me. As for vanities having stats in general, same answer here as in your last thread: (Why make a new thread with the same tone when it just got your last one locked and forgotten btw?)


Blah, just take the stats off the past elite vanities in the next update and start giving out elite rings with stats & elite vanities with no stats (to attempt making vanities purely for vanity purposes again). Then in future campaigns make it so people can craft their rings into stronger ones by doing some quests (whoa, throwback to the OG CoP) or get the weaker ring if they haven't gotten it before, along with the new elite vanity for that campaign. This way, people can still get the same rings over time and people will still have their vanity to show off their LEETness.

[United]

wouldnt hurt if the new elites have same as old ones.

[Amilys]

What would be elite about them if they all where the same?
I mean all elite should be same. Past or prevent or future.

[LwMark]

But it wouldnt make the first founder set more exclusive and special

[Amilys]

wouldnt hurt if the new elites have same as old ones.
Then new ones should have better bonus huh?

[bglir]

Plus, dear to the players who already have past elite vanity set, why are u guys behaving so cheap and dirty in letting new elite players get bonus in stats with new elite vanity set? I cant believe u guys want that special bonus only on u. People must be able to earn those bonus by farming for elite vanities. How can u guys insist that new vanity set should not give bonus in stats? Lol. Thats very SELFISH thing to do as a old, elite, player.
(Sorry to players who insists that new elite vanity set should have bonus in stats or bonus in stats in past vanity set should be removed even though already have past vanity set)


Ranting about how you want something changed and making hurtful comment on other people ( " dear to the players who already have past elite vanity set, why are u guys behaving so cheap and dirty" ) doesn't help you much there and it won't go anywhere, try diplomacy for a change, as i say it in your other thread instead of making your way make something that's is in everyone's way, can't get the Picture?? here's my idea and some other that have already have posted it of a thread that should or could be a win win solution, why not make a elite vanity sets that's different or would be better than the past vanity sets, in terms on getting it, is up to the mighty sts conditions and rules how you get it, it won't be easy but like past players do it, you have to earn it to be worthy to have it, that's why its call the elite vanity.
Past players who earn the elite vanity sets cannot be blame on something that sts have reward them for the time, effort and money put into getting it and those players deserve the respect and reward to earn that elite sets and bonus that came with it given since than till today for there loyalty and support to the game, they are part of the people that makes Pocket Legends to what it is today the world’s largest mobile MMO, they encourage and set an example to all new players they too someday would be among the elite in getting those vanitys.
So now Pocket Legends is going thru a lot of changes, new things have been introduce and is not that easy to satisfied everyone's demands and needs, changes have been made and Pocket Legends have change its decision to not put bonus on new elite vanity helm, so to make some thing happen and wanting a bonus on new elite vanity helm try gain support and vote on returning bonuses stats on the new vanity helm or pour in your ideas that can make a change for the better of everyone instead of ranting and making multiple thread about it, Elite Vanity sets bonus is not just the problem how about the Ping??? why not everyone is equal??? why not all make it so are the same. So read this carefully and consider it and try diplomacy thread.

[Rauekat]

Don't you think Spacetime Studios has enough problems on there hands? Can't we leave them alone involving looks of weapons, vanities, ext. :)

[Arsenal]

As Parth once said, its equality or oppurtunity, not flat out equality. You had the chance to get the 56 helm and 61 shield, you had the chance to download the app, even if you didnt you still had the oppurtunity. Everyone did, why should the ones who took advantage of it suffer.

[Chopper]

Their game, their rules.

Uh, our MONEY = their entire business.

It's funny because those people with the COP and Nuri's shield keep saying how upset they would be if the elite bonuses were simply taken away. I doubt they'd be comforted by a silly quote such as "Their game, their rules".

I've said it before too. So many people feel cheated off what happened and they never once chimed in to clarify the obvious discussions and expectations of players grinding for the MFA, thinking it will give a bonus with the Humania Elite item. STS has not once addressed why they didn't chime in before the update when it was obvious people were spending money on that very misconception. And it was not obvious either, since EVERY other Elite item in the past had worked to give a bonus set.

STS has been completely silent on addressing this point. All they have said is that they stopped giving bonuses with Elites AFTER people already wasted their time and money on MFA under the expectation that MFA would stack. Very bad form there.

[Whirlzap]

Another thread?
I'm just going to leave it to this:
In the world, people can see everything as unfair.
You think we are selfish in holding back our bonus from you?
We didn't hold it back at all.
STS held it back, they're the ones who annouced the change, not us.

And I think it is quite selfish of you, to demand being able to have stats.
It is like an ordinary man calling a king selfish for not letting him be a king.
Be happy, because at least you are not a peasant.
You still have your access to the elite dungeon.

MFA was never promised a bonus with the Monarch Helm or any future elite vanities.
STS may have stated that there MIGHT be future vanities with a bonus but never confirmed anything about MFA forming a bonus with Monarch Helm.
I'm sorry to say this, but you are being selfish in this too.
Everyone else who already has a COP or SoH still got a MFA, and since you were expecting a bonus, we could also say we were expecting a 4-piece bonus.
And don't say that we already have a bonus and just want more, because this is what you're doing yourself when you already have enough funds to hit level 71, get endgame gear, and then want more.

STS affects everyone with their actions, not just a small hand of people.

I have already seen a dozen of these threads, and Sam has personally locked a great number of them.

Complaining and petitioning about this matter over and over will not get solved.
I'm sure the Devs have already said No multiple times.

[Chopper]

Its not selfish, its customers feeling cheated and misled.

Imagine if Apple released a new Iphone every year (i know, it's a stretch to imagine that LOL). Each one has new features, and generates lot of revenue. A new Iphone is announced for November. Tons of people buy shares, discuss what features it might have, hold off on buying other phones, develop accessories, etc. etc. People spend money and time and everything else on the expectation of the new phone and what it does, etc. Apple sits back and does NOTHING. It just sits and soaks up the money from share purchases, etc. In fact, it starts to promote the new phone and its company shares HARD. It makes a ton of money leading up to it.

And then it releases a new phone, but wait. It's not a phone. it's just decorative. No function at all. Too bad. They never said it actually worked. However based on every other phone in the past, people are misled. Too bad suckers.

This would be an automatic lawsuit.

All we get here is STS saying there are no more bonuses, yes, but they have not addressed how their paying customers were misled and feel cheated.

[Livemau]

i think the CoP SoH and MFA should make a set bonus but the MHoH and the 2 that come after it should also have a set bonus as part of a new set

[Whirlzap]

Uh, our MONEY = their entire business.

It's funny because those people with the COP and Nuri's shield keep saying how upset they would be if the elite bonuses were simply taken away. I doubt they'd be comforted by a silly quote such as "Their game, their rules".

I've said it before too. So many people feel cheated off what happened and they never once chimed in to clarify the obvious discussions and expectations of players grinding for the MFA, thinking it will give a bonus with the Humania Elite item. STS has not once addressed why they didn't chime in before the update when it was obvious people were spending money on that very misconception. And it was not obvious either, since EVERY other Elite item in the past had worked to give a bonus set.

STS has been completely silent on addressing this point. All they have said is that they stopped giving bonuses with Elites AFTER people already wasted their time and money on MFA under the expectation that MFA would stack. Very bad form there.

Very bad thinking for a lot of players then.

I'm not sure what exactly is wrong here.

The weather yesterday was sunny.
The weather the day before yesterday was sunny.
The weather three days ago was sunny.

My friend assumed it would be sunny again and we planned to go to the beach.
The weatherman said, "Oh wow so many sunny days, we should be looking forward to a lot more!"
It was rainy today.

How can you be gullible enough to believe that it will always be sunny, just because this event takes place in sunny hot Arizona and it's been sunny for three days straight?

Unless the God of Weather popped out and said it, there is NOTHING you can hold against this.
Nothing you can hold against STS.

When STS advertised the MFA, they only advertised the armor.
They said NOTHING about the bonus.
Only the armor.
You can even check Patch Notes if you don't believe me.
It is your own fault for assuming things.

And as I said in my earlier post.
If you expected a 2-Piece Bonus from MFA and Monarch, then we should expect a 4-piece bonus.
Unfortunately, two helms cannot be worn at the same time.

[Livemau]

can someone quote the dev that said this

[Whirlzap]

Its not selfish, its customers feeling cheated and misled.

Imagine if Apple released a new Iphone every year (i know, it's a stretch to imagine that LOL). Each one has new features, and generates lot of revenue. A new Iphone is announced for November. Tons of people buy shares, discuss what features it might have, hold off on buying other phones, develop accessories, etc. etc. People spend money and time and everything else on the expectation of the new phone and what it does, etc. Apple sits back and does NOTHING. It just sits and soaks up the money from share purchases, etc. In fact, it starts to promote the new phone and its company shares HARD. It makes a ton of money leading up to it.

And then it releases a new phone, but wait. It's not a phone. it's just decorative. No function at all. Too bad. They never said it actually worked. However based on every other phone in the past, people are misled. Too bad suckers.

This would be an automatic lawsuit.

All we get here is STS saying there are no more bonuses, yes, but they have not addressed how their paying customers were misled and feel cheated.
This is a game. Not stock-markets.

Apple is held by legal laws to not do get away with anything like that, yes, and that would be a lawsuit.
But this is the compatibility we are talking about.
This is different.

When STS placed MFA as the cap vanity, what you were guaranteed and fully received was the vanity itself.
The vanity isn't missing functions, it's still fully 100% completed.
You can complain about how bad it looks if you want, since that's what you paid your money for.

But you never paid your money for a bonus.
It was not said and you assume anything.

[Livemau]

Very bad thinking for a lot of players then.

I'm not sure what exactly is wrong here.

The weather yesterday was sunny.
The weather the day before yesterday was sunny.
The weather three days ago was sunny.

My friend assumed it would be sunny again and we planned to go to the beach.
The weatherman said, "Oh wow so many sunny days, we should be looking forward to a lot more!"
It was rainy today.

How can you be gullible enough to believe that it will always be sunny, just because this event takes place in sunny hot Arizona and it's been sunny for three days straight?

Unless the God of Weather popped out and said it, there is NOTHING you can hold against this.
Nothing you can hold against STS.

When STS advertised the MFA, they only advertised the armor.
They said NOTHING about the bonus.
Only the armor.
You can even check Patch Notes if you don't believe me.
It is your own fault for assuming things.

And as I said in my earlier post.
If you expected a 2-Piece Bonus from MFA and Monarch, then we should expect a 4-piece bonus.
Unfortunately, two helms cannot be worn at the same time.

i say mfa and monarch dont give bonus but the next vanity shield that comes should give a bonus OR we can eliminate set bonuses on everything but dragon so everyone has a fair chance at a bonus

[Whirlzap]

Lol I can see why Dragon prices are rising now.
It's because STS killed future vanity bonuses and now only Dragon competes against Elites.

[Chopper]

i say mfa and monarch dont give bonus but the next vanity shield that comes should give a bonus OR we can eliminate set bonuses on everything but dragon so everyone has a fair chance at a bonus

a reasonable proposal. IF STS wants to go another way, then delete all elite bonus. Then, according to Whirl, people with the COP and Nuri shield can be comforted in the fact that they shouldn't have assumed that their bonus would remain.

Again, it's the fact that STS did not clarify the situation or address the obvious misleading thought at the time and in fact, promoted the MFA HARD! Yes, they did not promise a bonus, but they let people spend money and time on something they knew was wrong and just soaked up the money instead of doing anything about it. I think the other poster seems to have missed that very important point.

[Whirlzap]

Then you shouldn't be arguing.
Elite vanities were originally made for looks, not stats.
I'm afraid everyone has simply forgotten about that.

[Chopper]

Then you shouldn't be arguing.
Elite vanities were originally made for looks, not stats.
I'm afraid everyone has simply forgotten about that.

fine, then take away all bonuses for Elite, even the old ones and even it out. Just for looks.

[Nihiliste]

Crymoarplawx? I earned my set bonus through money and time. You all had the same chance to get your CoP/SoH/MFA. Don't be complaining now because you were too "lazy" or whatever excuse you had to not reach a cap. Simple solution, make the next cap vanity a bonus with the Monarch Helm of Humania. Then, we wouldn't have so many whiners and crier's.

[Cahaun]

This sounds like one of those: "If I can't have it, nobody will!" things :p

[Chopper]

This sounds like one of those: "If I can't have it, nobody will!" things :p

nah, that was in response to W's 'they are for looks' argument.

It's actually a 'why didn't STS warn people about the CHANGE in policy and let everyone spend tons of money based on an established practice that they let go on and profit from'? issue.

[nomad187]

This sounds like one of those: "If I can't have it, nobody will!" things :p

^^this^^

[Zeus]

Can devs just give these crybabies their sets so when they come in PvP they'll find out that the sets were not the reason they were losing?

People will go to such great lengths to hide their ignorance.

Note: this post was only meant for the PvPers who think that the reason they lose is due to set bonus.

On another note, I don't mind them taking off bonuses for vanities all together BUT that should include all vanities that give stats or bonuses.

I think I just had a little tear due to how many people are beating this poor dead horse. :/

[Register]

This whole thing is sorta ridiculous IMO ;P
It's a small bonus...Get better at the game an it wouldn't matter as much maybe?
I could've sworn people were saying level 12 Pvp takes little skill and it's about gear an it wa the exact opposite for endgame. What happened to that?

Anyways, if your that enraged about a few pixels and a number on a screen, don't play. Raging on a thread probably won't help.

Just my opinion...

[Jcyee]

This whole thing is sorta ridiculous IMO ;P
It's a small bonus...Get better at the game an it wouldn't matter as much maybe?
I could've sworn people were saying level 12 Pvp takes little skill and it's about gear an it wa the exact opposite for endgame. What happened to that?

Anyways, if your that enraged about a few pixels and a number on a screen, don't play. Raging on a thread probably won't help.

Just my opinion...

Lol

And yes a lot of people dont realize thst the bonus isnt as large as they think. Many players with just the mfa r just as skilled, if not better, than others with an elite vanity bonus

[Xionskull]

Yo, I have a few things to say... SOOO REEEAAAD!!
1. Mfa and Humania cap helm would be kewl if they had a small bonus.

2. A dragon set/ elite vanity set won't make the difference, skill will.

3. Next time ur in pvp, pvp a dude with elite vanity set then pvp him without the set, 0.0.

4. Live with it.

[Whirlzap]

Live with what?
Bad breath?
Horrible personal hygiene?
Umm, live with dragging a fish?
I confused.

[Chopper]

Just for clarification, I dont PvP, never have. I have no idea how much of an advantage these bonuses make there so i cant comment.

But i do know that Yetis punch me pretty hard and sometimes i have a handful of HP left, but most times i am down for the count. 50HP would be a huge deal in respect of survivability. It's like having 50 armour added to my stats that replenishes itself overtime. If there was a vanity shield that added 50 armour, it would be worth more than the dragon sets even. That's a big difference.

[Whirlzap]

Don't rely on gear.
Rely on skill.

Needs 2 b hardcore

[WhoIsThis]

Can devs just give these crybabies their sets so when they come in PvP they'll find out that the sets were not the reason they were losing?

People will go to such great lengths to hide their ignorance.

Note: this post was only meant for the PvPers who think that the reason they lose is due to set bonus.

On another note, I don't mind them taking off bonuses for vanities all together BUT that should include all vanities that give stats or bonuses.

I think I just had a little tear due to how many people are beating this poor dead horse. :/

They'd just figure out a new thing to complain about.


When 66 was the level cap, I once fought another mage in mega mage while they were in crafted lilith. Round 1; 5-4 advantage me. When I got my lilith back - he/she got hammered and didn't kill me once. That was gear holding me back. Angel destroying every other set under 66? That's gear holding the underdog back.

The slight bonuses conveyed by the vanity set? It helps of course, but it isn't decisive. As it should be. If you want proof - ask top pvpers to remove their vanity sets. The ones that are truly good will and will kill their opponents almost as easily. Not to mention, the players that use the vanity sets have been around the longest and by nature are likely to be the most experienced.

[Livemau]

i can say that the set bonus is more than you guys think
when 66 was the cap a dex bird with full crafted set vs me a warbird with crafted str set
if he had no vanity he was always dead in 3 shots
if they have vanity they have 50% chance of surviving my 3 shots so i would use 5 most times

[Livemau]

maybe sts should just let all the forumers and players vote on it and whatever wins stays not another word on the topic

[Dynastu]

I don't like how you displayed your opinion through this... Rant thread...

But I actually COMPLETELY agree with what you posted.

Here's my idea:

Perhaps make new elite cap stat rings, but what would peeps think about making these non-equippable with any stat giving vanities (dragon sets, COP set, not sure about founder's helm... I'd say rings could equipped with it, and I don't have one).

Basically, you have a choice. You can wear your old COP vanity set or dragon set with BETTER STATS than the elite rings and can actually customize the look of your character, or you can wear the new elite ring (with inferior stats), which is mostly to compensate for people who don't have any vanity sets, at least somewhat.

Eventually, the rings will have to become more powerful, or else persons wouldn't want to level to the elite cap. When that day comes (maybe like 2 caps from now?) the COP set WOULD BECOME a vanity set (with sparkles ;)). The vanity set could be stashed and used on any level of character.

This might make people without a vanity set happier and keep people with vanity sets happy.

--

I don't think you can just get rid of stats on these vanity sets (presently...) because of dragon sets and founder's helm, which, if you got rid of dragon set stats, that'd destroy their value, angering people, and founder's earned the founder's helm.

[Apasara]

Well if Whirlz is gonna keep saying that the elite vanity is only for appearance then might as well get rid of stats all together. Yes, I have heard the people (with CoP, SoH and MFA) say they'll quit but I bet in reality they won't. Just because of stats they quit the game? Thats uh.. Over reacting. Besides, the ones that already have the past elite vanities will never understand the others that don't until they step into their shoes. I got the MFA hoping to get a bonus too. But it's ok if the stats are gonna be put on rings.. Or something like that. And again, if people keep saying that the elite vamities are only for appearance then ok! Sts should get rid of the stats, put stats on rings and... Everyone should be happy then ._.

For me I don't really feel cheated even when I rushed to get the MFA but it is disappointing for me. I spent my last bit of allowence on plat. But thats ok... Uh.. I guess.

[Livemau]

i just think another chance should be given because we cant blame ourselves for not knowing about the game and we cant always let them have the advantage with these sets

[NECROREAPER]

As said before:

Rely on your skill, not your gear.


If you really were confident in your PvP ability, a minor set bonus wouldn't matter.
Not everyone gets this trophy, but those who DID earn this trophy should rightfully get to keep what they've earned.

[Rockxout]

While all the newer players get to suffer. It's funny how it isn't a big deal but the people that have the stats are the only ones really saying that. No one wants to take the vanities away just the stats. So u can still look like a special snowflake without having an upper hand from the start.

Look at it like this. Two players same skills build and rotation. Same gear other than the elite vanities. Stand there spam the skills in same order, who do you think would win? The person with advantage from the start.

There isn't anything else u can say about that do the math. 5 damage might not seem like a lot but look at it like this. They are doing a minimum of 30 more damage every 6 auto swings.

[CrimsonTider]

As a elite vanity holder on multiple toons, I could care less if the stats were taken away. In all honesty, 90% of PL cannot play their class anyway. A little extra dodge or health isn't going to change that.

People need to be less worried about these "amazing" bonuses and more focused on how to play their class without using Thrasher's.

[Zeus]

While all the newer players get to suffer. It's funny how it isn't a big deal but the people that have the stats are the only ones really saying that. No one wants to take the vanities away just the stats. So u can still look like a special snowflake without having an upper hand from the start.

Look at it like this. Two players same skills build and rotation. Same gear other than the elite vanities. Stand there spam the skills in same order, who do you think would win? The person with advantage from the start.

There isn't anything else u can say about that do the math. 5 damage might not seem like a lot but look at it like this. They are doing a minimum of 30 more damage every 6 auto swings.

There are no two alike PvPers.

You can't say that without fully understanding PvP. I face many PvPers who complain that the vanity set is OP, so I take it off & still beat them. Why? Because they make ROOKIE mistakes. In their mind, there is NOTHING that they could be doing wrong so the only possible explanation is the added bonus.

Quick tip: 12mm skills & your most powerful skills do not always mean those are the specific skills you use first. Weakening the opponent before the kill often produces MUCH better results.

[Rockxout]

There are no two alike PvPers.

You can't say that without fully understanding PvP. I face many PvPers who complain that the vanity set is OP, so I take it off & still beat them. Why? Because they make ROOKIE mistakes. In their mind, there is NOTHING that they could be doing wrong so the only possible explanation is the added bonus.

Quick tip: 12mm skills & your most powerful skills do not always mean those are the specific skills you use first. Weakening the opponent before the kill often produces MUCH better results.

Wasn't talking about skill just numbers. I understand player skill comes into effect. Was just putting numbers out there. I honestly could care less about pvp in this game to be honest. Class/gear is greater than skill when u crunch the numbers. I understand how buffs rebuffs work this isn't my first rodeo. Was stating that same sequence in skills used same spec all those factors if u didn't have those extra stats you will lose every time. Taking into consideration there aren't any dodges that come into play.

I'm not saying that a non elite vanity player can never beat one. Just doing some math and noticing that with that 5 extra damage a swing on my Mage that's roughly 1/6 of my 400 health in 6 auto swings. I've been playing video games since 1985 I understand it takes skill.

[Apasara]

Take off stats from the ones who already have a set bonus on elite vanities. I'd really like to see if you all think the same as you do now. You don't seem to have any sympathy for the ones who don't even have it. And it's true that you're only thinking about what you got, and not what you don't got. Cause if it were me, I'd be happy to give up stats and keep the vanities just for appearance. And again like Whirlz said "its only meant for appearance". I like the looks more than the stats myself. I wanna be able to sparkle like that too.

[WhoIsThis]

Wasn't talking about skill just numbers. I understand player skill comes into effect. Was just putting numbers out there. I honestly could care less about pvp in this game to be honest. Class/gear is greater than skill when u crunch the numbers. I understand how buffs rebuffs work this isn't my first rodeo. Was stating that same sequence in skills used same spec all those factors if u didn't have those extra stats you will lose every time. Taking into consideration there aren't any dodges that come into play.

Totally incorrect.

Skill is dominant. Admittedly the Angel sets have hugely unbalanced PvP, but if we have 2 players with roughly similar gear, skill will be dominant, even if 1 had the vanity bonus. In such a case, gear is vastly secondary to skill. Vastly. Of course, with the Angel sets so potent, the difference that the vanity bonus makes is pretty much irrelevant.

As for losing every time, I am going to have to ask you right here how much PvP experience you have, particularly at endgame. Dodge plays a HUGE factor in PvP (and arguably right now THE dominant factor) as does crit. Taking into consideration dodges is a must. You won't lose or win every time, because dodges and crits are inconsistent. For mages especially, the damage they do is also inconsistent because of the wide variance in spell damage.

Edit: Finally, the optimal sequence of skills to use your words is not the same every time. It is very situational and depends on your opponent's build and class.

The other thing I want you to do is to state to me the vanity bonus. Link it. Explain to me why given how potent it is will it make the decisive difference that some people in this thread are saying.

[Rockxout]

You are missing my point. Idc about skill or how much endgame pl pvp I've done. It's about the numbers nothing else. U can have your engame pl pvp. I'll pvp in other games that are far more balanced. And as I stated before take factors like dodge out. Not skill but raw math says otherwise. There isn't anything u can tell me that my calculator hasn't already.

[WhoIsThis]

You are missing my point. Idc about skill or how much endgame pl pvp I've done. It's about the numbers nothing else. U can have your engame pl pvp. I'll pvp in other games that are far more balanced. And as I stated before take factors like dodge out. Not skill but raw math says otherwise. There isn't anything u can tell me that my calculator hasn't already.

On the contrary, I see your point perfectly.

I've got a pretty strong opinion on the matter. So do you. But the difference is, I've seen things in practice in endgame PvP. So has Apollo. You won't even try it and insist that you are correct.

You can't take factors like dodge out. Not in practice. For your theoretical exercise, yes. But you'll have to accept that your theoretical exercise won't produce any data usable for any real game. And you have to account for other factors, such as GCD, ping, player reaction time, and the possibility that the player will select the wrong skill. While I firmly agree that PvP is totally unbalanced right now, you're gonna find that there is some degree of imbalance (although generally not this extreme as in PL right now) in any MMO. Fundamentally, there will be classes that are stronger and weaker against other classes in any MMO. It's part of any game mechanic.

Skill is dominant. If skill was not dominant, then there'd be little point in playing PvE or PvP. If you don't believe me, take 2 players. One has 100,000 kills without an elixir. One has no kills or experience. Who will do better, assuming that they both had the same gear and build? Theoretically yes, their maximum potential damage and survivability is the same. In practice, you tell me who will vastly outperform the other.

[Whirlzap]

Thing I don't get is why these threads keep getting made?
At this rate, I wouldn't be so surprised to see a Founder's Helm Rant Thread from the Twink Population soon...

[Whirlzap]

On the contrary, I see your point perfectly.

I've got a pretty strong opinion on the matter. So do you. But the difference is, I've seen things in practice in endgame PvP. So has Apollo. You won't even try it and insist that you are correct.

You can't take factors like dodge out. Not in practice. For your theoretical exercise, yes. But you'll have to accept that your theoretical exercise won't produce any data usable for any real game. And you have to account for other factors, such as GCD, ping, player reaction time, and the possibility that the player will select the wrong skill. While I firmly agree that PvP is totally unbalanced right now, you're gonna find that there is some degree of imbalance (although generally not this extreme as in PL right now) in any MMO. Fundamentally, there will be classes that are stronger and weaker against other classes in any MMO. It's part of any game mechanic.

Skill is dominant. If skill was not dominant, then there'd be little point in playing PvE or PvP.

But Mr. 4x Combo Thrasher says he's better than skill.

[WhoIsThis]

But Mr. 4x Combo Thrasher says he's better than skill.

I agree ... the 4X has unbalanced the game and has caused a thorough de-skilling of PvE. But consider what the 4X is. It is the equal of upgrading like 30 levels of gear above you. At that point, it becomes so unbalanced that yes, gear would trump skill to some extent. That said, I once saw a player that played so poorly that I managed to out-dps them completely unbuffed while they were in 4X. =

A real in game PvP example of this is Angel gear vs Mega Mage/Enchanted, Custom/Raid Roach, or Fury/Fortified. Totally unbalanced for PvP. Sadly there are players out there farming kills and ruining the experience of others with the Angel sets.


But I'll leave you with this question - who does more damage, if gear and build are the same - a skilled player using the 4X or an unskilled player using that same 4X?

[Rockxout]

Math says there is a clear disadvantage from the start. New scenario. Two players equal skill same ping same rotation no crits or dodge. One elite vanities one without. Who wins? It's alright though I hear what you are saying too I understand where you are coming from. Like I said since 85 I been playing video games so there isn't anything new in pl pvp endgame from any other video games. So u trying to puff ur chest up and say because u play pl pvp endgame more you are right? It's cool I hear you I'm a noob that can't play so my point is invalid. Cool I'll move along sorry to have taken up ur time. Peace.

[WhoIsThis]

Math says there is a clear disadvantage from the start. New scenario. Two players equal skill same ping same rotation no crits or dodge. One elite vanities one without. Who wins? It's alright though I hear what you are saying too I understand where you are coming from. Like I said since 85 I been playing video games so there isn't anything new in pl pvp endgame from any other video games. So u trying to puff ur chest up and say because u play pl pvp endgame more you are right? It's cool I hear you I'm a noob that can't play so my point is invalid. Cool I'll move along sorry to have taken up ur time. Peace.

Who wins? I'd say around 48-52% to at most 45%-55% (probably not and closer to the 48/52) for the vanity player, if your hypothetical scenario was correct. I recommend that you research how big a buff the vanity sets give. Then compare it to how much stats the Angel sets or crafted 70 sets give. The vanity sets you're going to find do not offer a significant advantage.

But the thing is, you say same rotation, and same ping. Does that ever happen? No crit or dodge? These are basic game mechanics that you are assuming don't exist.

And if I am puffing my chest as you would say about pvp, you are telling me that you never playing this game's endgame PvP, but playing other games since 1985 gives you superior credibility. I have played other MMOs. In fact, I am an active progression raider in WoW. No 2 MMOs are the same. While individual concepts may be similar, such as hp being the amount of life available, crits are usually (but not always) double base damage, no 2 MMOs have exactly the same mechanics. And in every MMO, if you put an unskilled opponent against an opponent with the same or slightly better gear, but much better skill, that better skilled opponent is going to dominate, regardless of whether you take away the gear advantage or not.

On that note, I suppose that you could argue that in this respect, it doesn't matter if the vanity bonus was taken away or not.

[WhoIsThis]

Lol - a bit of tunnel vision on my part. I didn't respond to the OP's original complaint. Let's examine these.


Many people insists that the past elite vanities' bonus on stats is ok cuz they earned em. Listen. What about people who did same thing like in past vanity set to earn the new elite vanitiy set? They even spent more platinum, more time and effort.

In order to get from level 70 to 71, you're looking at perhaps 12 hours of farming Sandbar Lagoon on the 4x. Assuming about 8.3k of xp per hour, that worked out to around 12 hours. Lets just say 13 for the sake of conservatism. That works out to 13 x 36 plat (30 if you buy on sale) = 468 plat over 12 or 13 hours. Less if you go into a group with all elixir users (not hard to find these days).

In order to get to from level 55 to 56, it took 83,840 xp and this was before platinum elixirs ever existed. In those days, you could buy a 1,500 gold elixir 2x elixir, a cheaper 1.5x elixir, or a 6,000 gold 3x elixir and if you died, you lost your elixir. I recall that it cost well over a million gold using the 2x elixir and even that took dozens of hours. Even if you bought the 3x, you're looking at quite a bit of time.

More effort in terms of time spent? Definitely not. And 1,500 gold in those days was a lot harder to get than it is today. More plat? Only if you choose to buy plat.




But now, what dev is saying is that we dont get the bonus in stats lol. LOL. Access to ELITE dungeon?? ha.. We cant even join parties in elite dungeon if we dont have elixir or good equipments. And obviously, we dont earn gold in elite dungeon much, but other maps like sandbar lagoon.

STS did not impose any gear limits. It's other players that are booting you not STS. If you want to run an elite dungeon without proper gear, then run with friends who won't boot. Mind you, we probably would see the OP in such a case complaining about the difficulty level of that dungeon.




Also, another discussion. I feel cheated in MFA lol. Do u know how many people expected stat bonus on equipping mfa and monarch helm? If they are not supposed to give any bonus in stats, STS should have announced it. It is very rude and bizzare to say "they are not for set. 71,76,81 vanity item is set". So what was the platinum we spent for mfa? lol Appearance? I would not spend like 400 plat for that cool appearance lol. Angel gears? We can just spend $50 bucks and save 800 plat for new thrasher parties in humania. No need to farm for MFA. I feel cautious why people do not fight with STS on this issue. But I think monarch and MFA should also give bonus in stats, or else, it means STS fooled us.

There was never an announcement made that any vanity set bonus was guaranteed 100% if you leveled to 71. You made the decision to do so on the assumption (which proved incorrect and which you are now venting about) and spent the plat.



Plus, dear to the players who already have past elite vanity set, why are u guys behaving so cheap and dirty in letting new elite players get bonus in stats with new elite vanity set? I cant believe u guys want that special bonus only on u. People must be able to earn those bonus by farming for elite vanities. How can u guys insist that new vanity set should not give bonus in stats? Lol. Thats very SELFISH thing to do as a old, elite, player.
(Sorry to players who insists that new elite vanity set should have bonus in stats or bonus in stats in past vanity set should be removed even though already have past vanity set)

STS made that decision. Not us. Although they did say that when the vanity for the 56 would be truly special (and form a set) when the Sewers was endgame content, and in that respect, I do believe that they have an obligation to honor that promise. In that respect, the do have some obligation to keep the vanity sets for the 56, 61, and 66 the way that they are. There are no posts regarding that for the 71. If you find one, link it to me.

If you want a quote from the devs say that they will keep the 56 bonus indefintely, btw:



Added new crafted legendary Demonic Glyph items
Streamlined game play user interface
Added the Spacetime Nexus, for all things Spacetime!
The Continue button in the lobby will now take you to whatever PvE dungeon you were in last.
Completing the last dungeon of the previous campaign will put you in the first dungeon of the following campaign.
The Fallen Prince in Nuri's will now swap an old Crown of Persistence for a vanity Crown of Persistence.
Wearing the vanity Crown of Persistence with the Shield of the Hallows grants an item set bonus.
The Crown of Persistence and Shield of the Hallows will also be used for future set bonuses when worn with elite items from future campaigns. The more items collected the better the set bonuses.
Beckon skill description will now display damage values for different ranks.
The name generator should now attempt to generate shorter names and no longer generates names that fail the content filter
Renamed a few of the items that are crafting components with their level until the next client update where they can be part of the UI
Updated Deal of the Day screens
IMPORTANT NOTICE regarding the Forest Haven Forge: Burke the Blacksmith's DAILY crafting quests are currently undergoing maintenance and are temporarily unavailable. This means that the following repeatable quests given through NPC Burke the Blacksmith in Forest Haven Towne are currently DISABLED and scheduled to return in a few weeks:




"Dead Threads"
"Da Craftin' Code"
"Lucky Leather"
"Obvious Troll"
"Weak Links"
"My Plate is Empty"
"Crystal Skull"








On that note, none of the oldies that you so accuse have "insisted' that the level 71 set not give any vanity bonuses.

That said, as another poster has pointed out, this game wouldn't be here if it weren't for the oldies that you hold in such contempt and it certainly would never have become the revenue stream for STS it is without their support.

[Arsenal]

"Why is he a lawyer and im a (insert inferior job here)? Well thats not fair. God give me more money." thats basically the kinda story im getting from this.

[Cobraguy]

I keep hearing from players with the full vanity set that the bonus isn't all that great.....
Why would so many rage quit if it was taken away?

Doesn't matter to me either way, I was also one of the people that assumed the 71 vanity would couple with the M.F.A and gives a bonus and to be honest, was kind of disappointed when it was announced that it wouldn't. I didn't rage and create threads and quit, because as was said earlier, their game their rules.

I had the opportunity to get all the elite vanity items before, but I wasn't able to. I missed getting the C.o.P by 20k xp, and I wasn't that fond of the shield design. I did make it to 66 on thrashers, and now I made 71 on 2x week long and gold pots.

It does kind of suck that future vanities won't give a bonus, but all I can do is suck it up and keep playing a game that I've really come to enjoy despite some shortcomings and disappointments. All in all, STS cannot make everyone happy, because something somewhere about the game is going to be disappointing to someone.

[SuperGotenks]

pfft, you just jelly you dont have vanity sparkles >.>...

[LwMark]

I guess if u only have mfa and no elite bonus ,we still get the hook up with angel sets that work great

[Kanitall]

HmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmSAYhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmNOhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmTOhmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmDRUGS*hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmAMILYShmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmm

*Drugs: Substances that boosts your performances. Ex: VANITY SETS

[Elyseon]

HmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmSAYhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmNOhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmTOhmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmDRUGS*hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmAMILYShmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmm

*Drugs: Substances that boosts your performances. Ex: VANITY SETS
Lolz

[Livemau]

HmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmSAYhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmNOhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmTOhmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmDRUGS*hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmAMILYShmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmm

*Drugs: Substances that boosts your performances. Ex: VANITY SETS

thats funny cuz u have a vanity set -.-

[Whirlzap]

Say yes to fish

[Elyseon]

Say yes to fish
yum ill take 3 seafood platters plox

[modredd]

So what is my incentive to lvl cap for an item I do not like the looks( I still want my volcano helm) of and will give me no set bonus?
And this should have been mentioned before lvl 71 cap VERY misleading!
And if my set bonus is taken way for my COP,shield and MFA I will be livid.
As it is I'm taking the whole month of August off from this game!

[Elyseon]

the incentive is the pride of capping, and, tho not for you, the exclusivity of the 71 helm

[Mothwing]

Wow, you guys get a whole separate dungeon and you're STILL complaining. How much is enough? A special weapon? Oh wait you have that. A sweet looking helm? Check. Elitism over the other players? Hmm...And now youre asking for more. Greed, pure greed.

[CrimsonTider]

Wow, you guys get a whole separate dungeon and you're STILL complaining. How much is enough? A special weapon? Oh wait you have that. A sweet looking helm? Check. Elitism over the other players? Hmm...And now youre asking for more. Greed, pure greed.

Every player in-game could be given all the elite vanities, a Founder's Helm, 2 gold caps, all 3 angel sets, free Thrasher's for life, and a GoA shield and someone would still find something to complain about.

Welcome to Generation "I like to whine instead of enjoying my life and a game that is meant to just be for fun but I can't because I am spoiled and don't know the difference between having fun and being a paid professional."

[Mothwing]

Every player in-game could be given all the elite vanities, a Founder's Helm, 2 gold caps, all 3 angel sets, free Thrasher's for life, and a GoA shield and someone would still find something to complain about.

Welcome to Generation "I like to whine instead of enjoying my life and a game that is meant to just be for fun but I can't because I am spoiled and don't know the difference between having fun and being a paid professional."

Exactly why I wait 2 months to actually play the new update.

[modredd]

once again if the intention was to now give us elite gear to allow us to go into not even a dungeon 1 room to find a boss that takes about 30 seconds to kill or give us the option of getting new gear for a bonus I'm pretty sure everybody would rather have the bonus.
If you have spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars on this game I think you have the right to your opinion which isn't complaining!
Also if you have never gotten all 3 set bonus items nor did you level cap 71 it really doesn't pertain to you,your just flaming and trolling and being rude.
Open dialog which is what forums are should not be criticized condemned or opinionated if it is how someone feels!
The seriously lacking respect that is in the game currently has overflow into the forms which is now a shark pit.

[Dynastu]

I may be an advocate of no-stat vanities, but people. Maybe we should be worrying more about lack of oil or world peace rather than, "he haz moar hp den mee!" :D.

The develepors have been working their BUTTS off on all three games. Did the epicness come in one big update? No, but it came over time. Record high populations in all three games. They must be doing something right! And a good job they've done, so can we just let this situation go?

[NECROREAPER]

This is *the* most ridiculous thread I've seen in a great, great while.

Honestly, you guys are getting upset for not knowing about a set bonus which is so marginally beneficial that it's practically non existent. You guys are getting upset over how you didn't know that the 71 elite item wouldn't have a set bonus, even though NOTHING has ever been promised to us in this game. Yes you can argue that if they did it before it was plausible that they'd do it again, but you shouldn't have been counting on it happening once more.

Point is, get over it. STS will do what they feel is right for the game, regardless of how many whiny, bratty players will complain about it (as we've seen in the past before). If you can't adapt to the change, the leave. If you wish to stay, then adapt and do something more positive with your time then sit around and complain about a meager few points.

[Livemau]

This is *the* most ridiculous thread I've seen in a great, great while.

Honestly, you guys are getting upset for not knowing about a set bonus which is so marginally beneficial that it's practically non existent. You guys are getting upset over how you didn't know that the 71 elite item wouldn't have a set bonus, even though NOTHING has ever been promised to us in this game. Yes you can argue that if they did it before it was plausible that they'd do it again, but you shouldn't have been counting on it happening once more.

Point is, get over it. STS will do what they feel is right for the game, regardless of how many whiny, bratty players will complain about it (as we've seen in the past before). If you can't adapt to the change, the leave. If you wish to stay, then adapt and do something more positive with your time then sit around and complain about a meager few points.
thats easy for you to say when you have the vanitys but for the rest of us it means never having the vanitys no longer how long we ply for or how many level caps we meet

[NECROREAPER]

thats easy for you to say when you have the vanitys but for the rest of us it means never having the vanitys no longer how long we ply for or how many level caps we meet

The only elite vanity I have is the SoH,and I've never worn it. I barely even have any gold, and when I say barely any gold, I mean like 14k.

[Nihiliste]

Livemau why do you care? Your a 66 who bullies lower levels. Lol

[Elyseon]

thats easy for you to say when you have the vanitys but for the rest of us it means never having the vanitys no longer how long we ply for or how many level caps we meet
Feel free to quit if you dont like it, you dont see me whining that i have no founders, or that i actually had to work to get my first elite helmet compared to todays equivalent of what? 12.5k xp in a fathom crypt level?
Stop complaining, if it werent for the original players who you are hating on the game might not even exist

[Dynastu]

Feel free to quit if you dont like it, you dont see me whining that i have no founders, or that i actually had to work to get my first elite helmet compared to todays equivalent of what? 12.5k xp in a fathom crypt level?
Stop complaining, if it werent for the original players who you are hating on the game might not even exist

Hey! Don't disrespect Live. He wtfpwns level 185's.

[Elyseon]

Hey! Don't disrespect Live. He wtfpwns level 185's.
lol dyna
are you on right now?

[Mothwing]

once again if the intention was to now give us elite gear to allow us to go into not even a dungeon 1 room to find a boss that takes about 30 seconds to kill or give us the option of getting new gear for a bonus I'm pretty sure everybody would rather have the bonus.
If you have spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars on this game I think you have the right to your opinion which isn't complaining!
Also if you have never gotten all 3 set bonus items nor did you level cap 71 it really doesn't pertain to you,your just flaming and trolling and being rude.
Open dialog which is what forums are should not be criticized condemned or opinionated if it is how someone feels!
The seriously lacking respect that is in the game currently has overflow into the forms which is now a shark pit.

Trolling and being rude? Excuse me? Anything that pertains or effects the games physics, I am allowed to comment on. I'm sorry, but I am VERY tired of seeing the frequent plat spenders being pampered and treated like royalty. You guys have so much, yet you appreciate so little.

Disclaimer: This post in no way was meant to hurt anyone's feelings. I am not referring to the elite community as a whole, but the vast majority of players whom don't appreciate what they have accomplished

[Livemau]

Livemau why do you care? Your a 66 who bullies lower levels. Lol

i fight 61-71 most often fighting 71s
so does that mean whoever i fight is bullying me

[Zeus]

i fight 61-71 most often fighting 71s
so does that mean whoever i fight is bullying me

Level then^^

The difference is that your gear can stand up to 71 gear. I'm PRETTY sure L56 glyph or L55 Balefort Sewers gear does not stand a chance vs L66 Humania Str Gear.

[Hadesofshadow]

us old players money = this game

[NECROREAPER]

us old players money = this game


This

[Elyseon]

thelonearcher built this game
;D

[Whirlzap]

It's a whole lot about advantages and equality.

The whole basis of Platinum = advantage.
OMG you have Thrash you level 4x faster than me.
OMG you have a Red Dragon so your Dragon Armor and Helm is actually useful
OMG you have more inventory slots
OMG you can run Bash all day

Honestly, the same thing applies:
OMG you have Elite Vanity Bonus
OMG you have Founder's Helm

Though you do strike a decent point, no game will ever be completely fair.
There will always be an advantage of one thing over another.
And so this game just reflects real life.

Football players who train on elevated and high altitude fields have more endurance.
The FastPass at the Amusement Park has a shorter wait.
And it gets to more important things too, not just a short advantage.

You have more money, and you can have better healthy food and a larger home to live in.
You have family members and siblings to play with and talk to. I don't.

And then it gets to survival.

The larger dinosaurs were able to survive simply by becoming more aggressive and the advantage of size and power.
The cockroaches survived longer than dinosaurs because they could live without vital parts of their bodies.

Some examples.
Everyone could wish for an equality, and that's already been established.
Free main spine maps for all. Before Cinco Loco and the Viking Helm Episode, you couldn't play past Dark Forest without Plat.
Gear. The set gear is for all, not exclusive.
Guilds. Potions. Elixirs.
Those are purchasable with Gold.

Platinum just gives an advantage.

A perfect equality does not exist.
In fact, if everyone had the same gear, and a perfect equality did exist, there would be no point in playing the game.

[Chopper]

It's not about equality, it's about fairness, for the most part.
Every player should have the same opportunities.

In this case specifically, the main issue that STS CHANGED their long standing practice of bonuses for Elite vanities without telling anyone in advance. And they pushed the MFA really really hard when they knew that people were acting under the misconception of what it would do with the new Humania vanity. They profited off of the misconception that they took no step to clarify! Why do people still not understand that point?

[nomad187]

It's not about equality, it's about fairness, for the most part.
Every player should have the same opportunities.

In this case specifically, the main issue that STS CHANGED their long standing practice of bonuses for Elite vanities without telling anyone in advance. And they pushed the MFA really really hard when they knew that people were acting under the misconception of what it would do with the new Humania vanity. They profited off of the misconception that they took no step to clarify! Why do people still not understand that point?

Every player who started week 1 had the same opportunity to get the founders helm. Every player that started before the 61 cap had the same opportunities to get CoP. Every player who started during 61 cap had the same opportunity to get SoH. Every player who started during 66 cap had the same opportunity to get MFA. Every player who stats now has the same opportunity to get the MH.

The issue here is people ASSUMED the new helm would add a bonus. It didn't, now they cry about fairness. The devs do not need to inform us of what the intentions are for future content. The devs pushed the MFA because of all the people crying about the lack of hints about when Nuri, then Fang, would release. If the player didn't go for any of the other elite items, that's on them. They shouldn't be rewarded for their laziness.

So in the future, take advantage of your opportunities, and stop worrying about what was there before you were.

[Livemau]

this is a response to many comments

i understand that plat buyers are what keeps sts from going into debt and like all companies they are primarily for making money and their second priority is hopefully us the community
if a helm that toke 100k xp to get gives a vanity set bonus then why wont a helm that toke 100k xp to get wont grant a set bonus

[Livemau]

Level then^^

The difference is that your gear can stand up to 71 gear. I'm PRETTY sure L56 glyph or L55 Balefort Sewers gear does not stand a chance vs L66 Humania Str Gear.

acutally it cant i have to kite people with crafted sets and im not complaining that they fight me im saying that if i fight people 5 levels higher than me then people 5 levels lower then me shouldnt have a problem
heres an example i wont use their real name
a guy (lets call him rushogtfo) was fighting me in a 71 ctf 5v5 match and we played out the match (my team won and I had 1 capture almost had 2) and when the matched finished we said gg to each other and went seperate ways. I joined a 61s game of 3v3 ctf rockwall forts and I alone stood at the spawn gates and trapped the enemy team. I then get a message from the mage of the opposing team that hes gonna *** ***** ***** *** and that I should never join his match again because his main (anonymous but lets call rushogtfo) was gonna kill me whenever he seen me since I was picking on lower levels he was gonna kill me and ***** ***** ***** and u get the point. So i replied to him saying when you are 5 levels above me theres no problem but when im 5 levels above you suddenly its called bullying and picking on noobs
to anyone that tells me what im doing is nooby they are certainly a true noob because they are not brave enough to face a challenge when all I do everyday is face challegning players

[Elyseon]

this is a response to many comments

i understand that plat buyers are what keeps sts from going into debt and like all companies they are primarily for making money and their second priority is hopefully us the community
if a helm that toke 100k xp to get gives a vanity set bonus then why wont a helm that toke 100k xp to get wont grant a set bonus
I already pointed put that the CoP took about 12x as much as new helm takes

[Chopper]

So in the future, take advantage of your opportunities, and stop worrying about what was there before you were.


uhhh, i think you missed the point. How many players have the OPPORTUNITY to travel back in time to get the COP and Nuri's shield if they weren't playing then? LOL

[nomad187]

So in the future, take advantage of your opportunities, and stop worrying about what was there before you were.


uhhh, i think you missed the point. How many players have the OPPORTUNITY to travel back in time to get the COP and Nuri's shield if they weren't playing then? LOL

Uhhhh... I think you missed my point. I separated the two for you. (sarcasm) :D

[Elyseon]

im going to sue God cuz i didnt get a chance to fight in the US civil war

[Chopper]

im going to sue God cuz i didnt get a chance to fight in the US civil war

exactly. You cant go back in time.

The game is supposed to be accessible for players new and old. The old Elite giving bonuses makes an imbalance. Thank you.

I dont worry about things that were there before i was there, but if those things still remain TODAY, then it does create an advantage. Either give the bonus to the new Elite or remove all Elite bonuses to be fair.

[Piosidon]

Why you getting pissed about a bunch of pixels?

[WhoIsThis]

The OP appears to have abandoned this thread altogether. Seeing as his/her concerns have already been answered, it's best to let this thread just die.

[Zeus]

uhhh, i think you missed the point. How many players have the OPPORTUNITY to travel back in time to get the COP and Nuri's shield if they weren't playing then? LOL

They had the opportunity to get it when it originally came out by downloading the game and playing.

[Elyseon]

uhhh, i think you missed the point. How many players have the OPPORTUNITY to travel back in time to get the COP and Nuri's shield if they weren't playing then? LOL

They had the opportunity to get it when it originally came out by downloading the game and playing.
I'm not an opportunist, I blame genetics for my lack of a founders!

[nomad187]

I'm not an opportunist, I blame genetics for my lack of a founders![/QUOTE]

You can add your parents to your lawsuit. Hahaha!

[Mage till the end]

Why don't they just leave the elite set how it is and then down the road make another elite set. Then the old members fell good because none snatched their set bonus away, and the new people have a elite set to. Everyone's happy.

[Cahaun]

Why don't they just leave the elite set how it is and then down the road make another elite set. Then the old members fell good because none snatched their set bonus away, and the new people have a elite set to. Everyone's happy.
Wow it makes so much sense that we should all rage about it!
We need a few more black ice/Cyber quests also.

[Jsaieagle]

This sounds like one of those: "If I can't have it, nobody will!" things :p

^^Agree^^

[Energizeric]

Why don't they just leave the elite set how it is and then down the road make another elite set. Then the old members fell good because none snatched their set bonus away, and the new people have a elite set to. Everyone's happy.

I don't know why they don't do this either. Just make the 71, 76 & 81 items form a set and give a similar set bonus as the older one.

[Brave Sir Robin]

They had the opportunity to get it when it originally came out by downloading the game and playing.

Maybe mentioning "equality of opportunity" is a bit exaggerated here ;)
But since you brought it up, factors that hinder equal opportunity include:

"...circumstances of birth, upbringing, ... or 'involuntary personal attributes' such as disability, age, etc..." (see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_opportunity))

E.g.

1. I am very young. Therefore, I could not have started playing PL when others did (involuntary personal attribute: age).

2. My parents didn't allow me to play video games with killings until I was 14; they thought that such games at a young age would increase my violent tendencies (upbringing).

[nomad187]

Maybe mentioning "equality of opportunity" is a bit exaggerated here ;)
But since you brought it up, factors that hinder equal opportunity include:

"...circumstances of birth, upbringing, ... or 'involuntary personal attributes' such as disability, age, etc..." (see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_opportunity))

E.g.

1. I am very young. Therefore, I could not have started playing PL when others did (involuntary personal attribute: age).

2. My parents didn't allow me to play video games with killings until I was 14; they thought that such games at a young age would increase my violent tendencies (upbringing).

This is true. However, when an item is discontinued before you started playing, then why should they re-issue it just for your circumstances?

[Brave Sir Robin]

This is true. However, when an item is discontinued before you started playing, then why should they re-issue it just for your circumstances?

I didn't say they should re-issue discontinued items ;) They could always offer an alternative that gives similar stats.

[Elyseon]

or you could just suck it up and realize the game is for more than one person ^.^
enjoy :D

[Chopper]

I don't know why they don't do this either. Just make the 71, 76 & 81 items form a set and give a similar set bonus as the older one.


this makes sense too.

Hmm, lot of reasonable proposals to address the problem.

Seems like the only people shrilling are those who got the original Elite items and keep chiming in even though this issue doesn't seem to affect them LOL

...except to try and stop others from having the same opportunity to have Elite bonuses, of course. ha ha ha

[Brave Sir Robin]

or you could just suck it up and realize the game is for more than one person ^.^
enjoy :D

I was not talking about myself ;) These were just two examples to counter the equal opportunity argument.
Obviously, more than one person might fall into these categories. And of course, there are more examples.

[nomad187]

This is true. However, when an item is discontinued before you started playing, then why should they re-issue it just for your circumstances?

I didn't say they should re-issue discontinued items ;) They could always offer an alternative that gives similar stats.

I will thank you when I get on PC.

I personally think they are going away from the stat vanities because of all the complaining from those that don't have X item. I agree that vanities should be vanities, and should not offer stats. However, in the case of the old elite vanities, that was the only real reward. The reward now it's the elite dungeon, and 3 items only a 71 can equip.

The issue that I have is the attitudes of some. They feel that STS owes them something. STS did not need to tell them the new helm would not have stats, or give a set bonus with MFA, or SoH. STS decided instead to give us a new dungeon, with elite weapons. They went in a new direction, explained the reasoning, and a month later people are still complaining. At some point they need to accept facts, and move on. In my case, I capped one toon at 56, 61, & 66. My other two I only capped at 66. I too assumed the new helm would make a set bonus. I was disappointed when it didn't, but I accept the responsibility for having not capped the others. I actually like the idea of the new dungeon. A long as they don't make the elite dungeon plat based, I'm good.

[Kanitall]

HmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmSAYhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmNOhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmTOhmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmDRUGS*hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

*Drugs: Substances that boosts your performances. Ex: VANITY SETS

Gotta agree with you..

[Brave Sir Robin]

I personally think they are going away from the stat vanities because of all the complaining from those that don't have X item. I agree that vanities should be vanities, and should not offer stats. However, in the case of the old elite vanities, that was the only real reward. The reward now it's the elite dungeon, and 3 items only a 71 can equip.

The issue that I have is the attitudes of some. They feel that STS owes them something. STS did not need to tell them the new helm would not have stats, or give a set bonus with MFA, or SoH. STS decided instead to give us a new dungeon, with elite weapons. They went in a new direction, explained the reasoning, and a month later people are still complaining. At some point they need to accept facts, and move on. In my case, I capped one toon at 56, 61, & 66. My other two I only capped at 66. I too assumed the new helm would make a set bonus. I was disappointed when it didn't, but I accept the responsibility for having not capped the others. I actually like the idea of the new dungeon. A long as they don't make the elite dungeon plat based, I'm good.

I like your positive way of thinking. And you are right, there are times where people's demands become unreasonable; I understand that it's impossible to keep everyone happy, ofc.

About the rest, I have already expressed my opinions so no point repeating myself. My intention here was to discuss a specific (and interesting) argument, for the sake of constructive criticism.

Personally, I don't mind if they introduce a paid dungeon or make any other changes as long as these changes enhance my overall gaming experience; as any other gamer I would like to feel respected both as a customer and individual.

[Chopper]

... as any other gamer I would like to feel respected both as a customer and individual.

Agree with this. And people feel misled and ripped off by what happened.

btw - your Forum name ROCKS!! LOL

[zappaxe]

I never expected my MFA to bonus with any other items, but i at LEAST expect Monarch+future elites to have sparkles if not bonuses.

[Livemau]

im going to sue God cuz i didnt get a chance to fight in the US civil war

if u want i will start another us civil war and u can get all the medals u want

[Drizzid]

This is one reason I quit playing. There is NO incentive.

Im actually dissapointed that I spent money on this ****.

[Rare]

fine, then take away all bonuses for Elite, even the old ones and even it out. Just for looks.

Fact is, they added the bonus. They can't just take it back. The new gear was sought based on assumption while the old were sought based on fact (at least shield and armor).

[Chopper]

Fact is, they added the bonus. They can't just take it back. The new gear was sought based on assumption while the old were sought based on fact (at least shield and armor).

i really dont care if they dont take the old bonuses away, since i think they should be adding it to the new Elite piece really.

BUT, according to the posters chiming in this thread that (1) it's STS' game and they can do whatever they want, and (2) its' based on assumptions, (3) elite bonuses dont do anything in PvP, it answers all of those.

(1) if STS can stop giving bonuses for Elites, and they can take them away from old Elites;
(2) Old players ASSUME they would get to keep their Elite bonuses. It's their fault for making that assumption if they get taken away; and
(3) if the Elite bonuses dont do anything in Pvp, then they shouldn't care if they are taken away.

IN fact, one poster said something like, it's Skill, not Gear, that matters in PvP. I highly doubt he is PvP fighting with white and garbage grey equipment. I'd challenge him to try and fight by letting the other team choose what garbage gear he gets to use instead of his Elite equipment either. Gear makes a huge difference in the entire game. Skill wont overcome your garbage grey items when faced with a decent player using full crafted top gear and Elites.

[Brave Sir Robin]

One small addition: We did not "assume"; we claim that we were "led to believe".

@Chopper check this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9pQUKV9MuM) out if you like Eric Idle ;)

[Whirlzap]

i really dont care if they dont take the old bonuses away, since i think they should be adding it to the new Elite piece really.

BUT, according to the posters chiming in this thread that (1) it's STS' game and they can do whatever they want, and (2) its' based on assumptions, (3) elite bonuses dont do anything in PvP, it answers all of those.

(1) if STS can stop giving bonuses for Elites, and they can take them away from old Elites;
(2) Old players ASSUME they would get to keep their Elite bonuses. It's their fault for making that assumption if they get taken away; and
(3) if the Elite bonuses dont do anything in Pvp, then they shouldn't care if they are taken away.

IN fact, one poster said something like, it's Skill, not Gear, that matters in PvP. I highly doubt he is PvP fighting with white and garbage grey equipment. I'd challenge him to try and fight by letting the other team choose what garbage gear he gets to use instead of his Elite equipment either. Gear makes a huge difference in the entire game. Skill wont overcome your garbage grey items when faced with a decent player using full crafted top gear and Elites.

They should also take all those Yetis away from Humania.
Then you and I won't be Yeti fodder anymore

[nomad187]

One small addition: We did not "assume"; we claim that we were "led to believe".

@Chopper check this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9pQUKV9MuM) out if you like Eric Idle ;)

There was no thread anywhere, from any dev, at anytime that even remotely hinted that there was a possibility of the MH creating a set bonus with previous elite items. That makes it an assumption.

[Brave Sir Robin]

There was no thread anywhere, from any dev, at anytime that even remotely hinted that there was a possibility of the MH creating a set bonus with previous elite items. That makes it an assumption.

You can read here (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?60926-Poll-Should-volcano-vanity-give-a-bonus-with-other-vanities&p=688796&viewfull=1#post688796) and here (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?59656-Humania-is-coming!-Current-Level-Cap-goes-away-and-New-Level-Cap-of-71&p=666324&viewfull=1#post666324).

[nomad187]

There was no thread anywhere, from any dev, at anytime that even remotely hinted that there was a possibility of the MH creating a set bonus with previous elite items. That makes it an assumption.

You can read here (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?60926-Poll-Should-volcano-vanity-give-a-bonus-with-other-vanities&p=688796&viewfull=1#post688796) and here (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?59656-Humania-is-coming!-Current-Level-Cap-goes-away-and-New-Level-Cap-of-71&p=666324&viewfull=1#post666324).

In the first post you linked, the only thing I saw from a dev is Vamp quoting Sam from the 2nd thread you quoted. In the 2nd thread, Sam was the OP, and the 2nd thing he wrote is what Vamp had quoted. So two posts total. They only thing Sam said is they would be replacing the CoP with a new helmet, then they would replace the shield, then armor. He did not state there would be bonus stats, nor a set bonus. People, myself included, assumed this was going to happen.

I looked through the threads quickly on my mobile. If I missed another post, my apologies.

[CrimsonTider]

There is NO assumption in that elite vanity set holders get to keep their bonuses. I will provide the quote from TE once I have access to my laptop.

[Brave Sir Robin]

Regarding the first link, I was referring to a post by Octavos, # 136. The important bit is this:


Like Pocket Legends elite vanity rewards, the plan is to introduce new vanity items as a reward for reaching the elite level cap with each expansion. These vanity items will combine to have set bonuses for those who can collect them.

Did you find it?

[TANKKAAR]

http://youtu.be/2_FmADVggCk

[nomad187]

I found it. However, the first Sam quote is in regards to SoH. The 2nd quote is referancing the MFA once Fang was released. The 3rd qoute is from Star Legends, and has nothing to do with the PL. He just said the SL elite vanity would create a bonus, like the PL vanities did at the time of that post. The last one referance the MFA creating a bonus with it and other elite vanity items.

At the time, the Monarch Helm wasn't out, so he spoke the truth.

I can see were this lead to the assumption, but again, there was nothing that said the NEW items would pair with the old items. I can see where some could feel mis-lead. But to me that is not a mis-leading statement. Just my opinion

[CrimsonTider]

From TE, taken from this thread: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?61936-71-Elite-Cap-Bonus&p=698164#post698164


We will not take away, alter or remove the set bonuses from your existing elite vanities. You earned them and we will not be taking them away.

That being said, we can reward you with any kind of item for reaching the level cap, it doesn't have to be a vanity. If you guys would prefer a stat'd non-vanity item next time around, we will absolutely take that into consideration. We have ways of making you happy, and will do everything in our power to make it happen! Yes, I think that is a threat... At least it resembles a threat. Muahahaha!!!

[Rare]

One small addition: We did not "assume"; we claim that we were "led to believe".

@Chopper check this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9pQUKV9MuM) out if you like Eric Idle ;)

That's the same thing. If it want explicitly stated out is an assumption. I'm not saying its right, but they are two different cases.

[Rare]

Regarding the first link, I was referring to a post by Octavos, # 136. The important bit is this:



Did you find it?

Well if that's true it was not an assumption and it should be included. Although it does not say it would combine with old elite vanities.

[CrimsonTider]

Well if that's true it was not an assumption and it should be included. Although it does not say it would combine with old elite vanities.

Precisely. It was NOT stated anywhere that current/future elite vanities would combine with old ones to create bonuses. Only that they would make a bonus. Currently, the "bonus" is being able to farm/equip the elite weapons. And now that the elite weapons are included with the crafted sets to keep the bonus, it is a pretty good deal if you ask me.

[Brave Sir Robin]

Guys, this was the point I was trying to make:


Well if that's true it was not an assumption...

The rest is open for discussion ;)

[Chopper]

There was no thread anywhere, from any dev, at anytime that even remotely hinted that there was a possibility of the MH creating a set bonus with previous elite items. That makes it an assumption.

I am guessing you did not read throughh the entire thread because this was addressed many times.

Every other elite item gave a bonus set prior to the humania campaign. That is 100 percent history to that point. It was entirely reasonable to expect a working bonus. Many many p,ayers were openly debating whether it should be a pet or something new because it wasnt fair for COP holders to duplicate Elite vanities. Many many posts were published talking about what the new bo us would be, whether it devaluedthe COP, etc.

STS DID ABSOLUTELY nothing to clarify it, and conversely, promoted the mfa armour super hard during this very frenzy. They profited a lot by the expectation and knew it was out there. My examp,e before about e iphone still stands. If every iphone in history was a working model and they drive stock up based on the release ofthe new ihpone, and then we find out after buying stock, etc. That it doesntwork, that it is just decorative and for looks, it is clearly misleading and profitting off of that.

Even those players who now oppose a bonus with the mfa, were comp,aining that their COPs would be devalued before so it was a widely held expectation based on 100 percent accuracy at that time when the mfa armour was being pimped hard.

[Chopper]

Ps, sorry for my spelling above. Im trying to catch my flight back to the office, ha

I also note that the devs have yet to address the issue of people feeling misled and cheated. I still say they should add the bonus to the new elite vanity so everyone now knows that the next one is useless. This wouldbe fair. Its a better solution than turning on your own customers and creating feelings of being misled and cheated.

To those players who oppose it so strongly, i think your motivations are becoming pretty clear why, since it doesnt affect your items one bit.

[kellylita]

Cmon guys, there is no denying yhe fact that it was misleading. I spent alot of plat leveling to 71 with the immpression i was going to new have a new vanity piece. I find it wrong and immoral but hey like many have said, its their game their rules.

[Chopper]

With the new Forgotten items now out, I wonder if some of the same players who are complaining about them being OP, are the same ones that were saying above that 'it's not the gear, it's the skill' in trying to argue why the Elite bonuses should not be applied with the Humania Elite. LOL

[Zeus]

With the new Forgotten items now out, I wonder if some of the same players who are complaining about them being OP, are the same ones that were saying above that 'it's not the gear, it's the skill' in trying to argue why the Elite bonuses should not be applied with the Humania Elite. LOL

Can you just let it rest already?

They aren't OP in end game, but give birds the slight advantage they needed.

[Chopper]

Update - Well, after many weeks of silence on the issue, it looks like STS has responded to the issue in the other thread:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?68135-Upcoming-vanity-amour

"It is indeed our intention that new cap vanities will no longer give bonus stat's. I'm trying to move over to a system where vanity = vanity (a.k.a no stat.'s). I would definitely like to deal with the legacy stuff. Many discussions are in the works and we will be sure to update you if we decide to pull the trigger on a solution."

Hopefully, the playing field will finally be levelled again after STS changed the game after so many people spent a fortune trying to get the MFA (heavily promoted by STS at the time), which turned out to be useless with the Humania Elite item. Of course, the easiest and best solution is just to continue to give the set bonus with the Humania items to work with the old items too... which of course would make pretty much all happy.

[ZHEOTARE]

Hopefully, the playing field will finally be levelled again after STS changed the game after so many people spent a fortune trying to get the MFA (heavily promoted by STS at the time), which turned out to be useless with the Humania Elite item.

Do you have any clue what happened?? They never promoted the MFA. They promoted the upcoming cap raise. The only thing they said was if you wanted the MFA, better get it now. They did the same with the SoH. Why did they do this?? Because of people the cried when Nuris, then Fang came out with little, to no notice. The main complaint... "I didn't know, so I didn't get to cap". So then they give plenty of notice, and everyone calls it a promotion. Get real.


Of course, the easiest and best solution is just to continue to give the set bonus with the Humania items to work with the old items too... which of course would make pretty much all happy.

The only one this is making happy is the people who can't get over themselves. I worked for the CoP, SoH, and MFA. I don't cry and take anything away from those that got exclusive items that were there before me (rose wand, founders, pumpkin head). Those people deserve them for the work they did, or for their dedication to this game. I earned my CoP, SoH, MFA, shield or gratitude, frozen crown, and angel sets. If you don't have them, then too bad. Sorry you didn't do the work, or started late. That's a you problem.

Wanna make it fair?? Keep all the stats, and make them trade-able. Then if someone wants to sell theirs, you can buy it. Or better yet, make pvp arenas free of item bonuses. After all, those are the only ones complaining about every item that is, or was, ever released.

I can honestly say this... If they change any stats from the past items, founders, elite vanities, etc, I won't rage quit. I'll just quit.

[Chopper]

yes i do.

They promoted the heck out of the MFA. At a time when lots of people here were talking about the set bonus for the new Elite item and how it was unfair to the COP owners because it would make them redundant, etc. There were LOTS of discussion about the set bonuses and how it should be a pet, etc. STS knew exactly people were expecting the set bonuses to continue. They didn't say a word about it not. They let it go one, let people continue to believe it, while promoting the MFA and taking all the profits that went with that.

After the new campaign, they said no more bonus. People feel cheated and misled. Obvious from the many may posts you may have not read, including myself. If they just gave the set bonus with the MFA and Humania helm, the problem would have gone away, but they didn't and people feel cheated.

Some people say the COP, etc. dont give much of a bonus and it's inconsequential, but it obvious from people like you that it's enough to make people quit over. That is how lots of people feel when they paid good money and felt ripped off when STS didn't give the bonus with the Humania Helm and MFA. STS didn't even respond to the issue until today.

I said it before, if a Dragon set giving +10 dmg is worth 45M gold, how much does 50HP and other set bonus' worth? That is what STS denied, after profiting from promoting the MFA so hard while they knew what people were expecting.

[Whirlzap]

Why do you keep on persistently shooting for this Chopper?
I really admire your "never-ending" argument and strong standing points you make, but this is seriously turning to a never ending argument.
I think everyone else pretty much gave up.
If you do want to continue spotting out points, send a personal email to Samhayne and see what they have to say, take it that they respond or not.

[Brave Sir Robin]

He's not alone ;)

However, we try to keep it constructive, if there are any new arguments we discuss. In this case he just updated the thread, Zheo shared his view (for which we are thankful) and Chop replied. All in a friendly tone, nothing wrong.

After all we all play together almost every day, those who agree and those who disagree lol.

Hope it's OK.

[ZHEOTARE]

@chopper. I sent you a pm with a 1m gold challenge. Please accept so we can move on. BTW... Prove me wrong, and you don't owe me anything.

[McBain]

People say they'll quit, but quite frankly I highly doubt it. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, but I'd be willing to bet money that if they removed the stats from previous vanities, people obviously would rage over it for a period of time, but in the end 99% of y'all would still keep playing.

What's worse, people complaining that they spent all this plat to cap in the past and had their vanity stats taken away, or people complaining that they spent all this plat to cap recently and didn't get the vanity stats they expected? Sounds like six of one, half-dozen of the other to me. Why STS decided to open this can of worms by giving stats to vanities in the first place is beyond me. :puzzled:

[Chopper]

Why do you keep on persistently shooting for this Chopper?
I really admire your "never-ending" argument and strong standing points you make, but this is seriously turning to a never ending argument.
I think everyone else pretty much gave up.
If you do want to continue spotting out points, send a personal email to Samhayne and see what they have to say, take it that they respond or not.

Because the Dev chimed in today to say something about the Elite Vanities and Legend stuff, which is what brought it up again.

And because it still has never been address (until today) or fixed. In fact, TechnoEmail indicated they are discussing what to do with Legend stuff (old Elites) so it's a live issue and i am sure input from the people affected would be helpful to say the least. All good reasons why to chime in :)

[ZHEOTARE]

People say they'll quit, but quite frankly I highly doubt it. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, but I'd be willing to bet money that if they removed the stats from previous vanities, people obviously would rage over it for a period of time, but in the end 99% of y'all would still keep playing.

What's worse, people complaining that they spent all this plat to cap in the past and had their vanity stats taken away, or people complaining that they spent all this plat to cap recently and didn't get the vanity stats they expected? Sounds like six of one, half-dozen of the other to me. Why STS decided to open this can of worms by giving stats to vanities in the first place is beyond me. :puzzled:

The majority of the"quitters" are rage quitters. I thought this out. To have an item modified, our changed, because of some whiny people, is bad business, and poor taste. Especially when the only ones complaining are pvp people. If that is where the complaints are, then make pvp areas bonus free.

As a pve player, I'm tired of see great items, or areas be nerfed, changed, redesigned or what ever else they do to appraise the pvp group that complains. "mages are OP", "birds are OP", "forgotten items are OP", "vanity set bonuses are unfair".

Kudos to STS for trying to please everyone, but it can't be done. The minority will always find something to complain about. Blocking bonus stats from vanity gear in pvp areas makes more sense then taking away what was earned. That is the reason I would quit. I would no longer be able to support a company that wants to screw over the majority, to please the minority. Yea I know a lot of companies do that, however, not this blatantly.

On a side note, I have never mentioned any thing about plat. I spent that money willingly. STS didn't force me. They run the business well. Make people feel a sense of urgency, our well rewarded, and people will do whatever it takes. If they change the stats, I'll walk away with about 900 plat, and $25m in gold on a deleted account... And be ok with it.

[Chopper]

@chopper. I sent you a pm with a 1m gold challenge. Please accept so we can move on. BTW... Prove me wrong, and you don't owe me anything.

I replied with links to many previous posts by the Devs and other posters showing the history. I've explained myself in many other posts and thread on this, as has other members too. Please take time to review the history as you seem to have missed the point about this.

Regards,

[ZHEOTARE]

@chopper. I sent you a pm with a 1m gold challenge. Please accept so we can move on. BTW... Prove me wrong, and you don't owe me anything.

I replied with links to many previous posts by the Devs and other posters showing the history. I've explained myself in many other posts and thread on this, as has other members too. Please take time to review the history as you seem to have missed the point about this.

Regards,

I did and responded to some. Again, you assumed. Misled or not, YOU assumed, and now want the achievements of others taken away. Tell you what, find me that definitive statement, and you'll get a gold cap. Truth is, it doesn't exist. All you can provide, is statements, that when looked back on, were absolutely correct. Misleading, maybe. Promotional, yes. But never did any dev say "the 71 elite vanity will make a set bonus with any of the 3 previous elite vanities". Again, you assumed. That's a you problem.

I'm done. My case is made. This topic is a revolving door.

Good luck finding that statement.

[Chopper]

again, just like other players ASSUME that their old Elite items will continue to give bonuses. Same thing. STS can take those away too.

I will state my point again since you have some confusion and keep missing the point:

100% accuracy at that time that EVERY Elite item was stacking to give bonuses. People were openly debating about the bonus from the new Elite item. STS promoted the MFA with promotions, etc. STS said they would be replacing the ELite set items one by one. People were spending money to get the MFA on this basis, which was obvious.

IN FACT, I saw posts asking STS directly whether/what kind of set bonus the Helm would give. STS doesn't respond.

STS doesn't say a thing. Lets it go on without chiming in and profits form the increased sales of platinum. ONly after people spent the money, does STS announce the change. People feel cheated and misled. STS doesn't even address the issue for months until Techno addresses it today saying they are looking at the old Elite items.

Here's my previous example about the Iphone for further clarification.

"Its not selfish, its customers feeling cheated and misled.

Imagine if Apple released a new Iphone every year (i know, it's a stretch to imagine that LOL). Each one has new features, and generates lot of revenue. A new Iphone is announced for November. Tons of people buy shares, discuss what features it might have, hold off on buying other phones, develop accessories, etc. etc. People spend money and time and everything else on the expectation of the new phone and what it does, etc. Apple sits back and does NOTHING. It just sits and soaks up the money from share purchases, etc. In fact, it starts to promote the new phone and its company shares HARD. It makes a ton of money leading up to it.

And then it releases a new phone, but wait. It's not a phone. it's just decorative. No function at all. Too bad. They never said it actually worked. However based on every other phone in the past, people are misled. Too bad suckers.

This would be an automatic lawsuit.

All we get here is STS saying there are no more bonuses, yes, but they have not addressed how their paying customers were misled and feel cheated.È

[Lowlyspy]

I still say all stats are taken from all vanities, past, present, and future.(minus big/bigger luck, but i suppose that's more of a proc than a stat, but you get the point.)

[vampinoy]

Techno Email never changed her stance and her most recent post is nothing new (don't get too excited just yet :P), she already mentioned how future elite cap vanities will only serve to change a toon's appearance. At the same time pondered on the idea that players can exchange their "legacy vanities" into a true vanity + better stat'd ring. Her previous post was actually more detailed...

16181



Shortly after, Techno Email said STS will not remove or change the bonus stat from previous elite cap vanities:

16182





What we have so far:
1. Legacy Vanities retains bonus stat
2. No bonus stat on future level cap vanities
3. Whatever "solutions" STS will come up with do not involve either removal/changing of bonus stat on legacy vanities or giving future elite cap vanities bonus stats.

Things that they are considering on future elite cap items:

...on legacy elite cap vanities
A mechanism that will allow players with legacy vanities to exchange them for true vanity items and better stat'd rings (They're looking to phase those legacy vanities out but it would still be up to each player if they will bite the offer...I think? That's how I interpreted it at least)

...on vanity vs non-vanity elite cap items
A level cap item that is stat'd non-vanity (Interesting?)

...on dungeons access
Elite Item that allows players access to dungeons (Already happened)

...on procs
Elite Items that procs when a specified skill is used (Interesting?)


PS: Better to just sit back, relax, wait, and see :P So far, they implemented 1 out of their 4 considerations...I'll stick around just to see how they'll implement the other 3 :P The issue never slept, it's always been live :P People just seem to have forgotten the details a little bit or grew tired of arguing about it...

[McBain]

I still say all stats are taken from all vanities, past, present, and future.(minus big/bigger luck, but i suppose that's more of a proc than a stat, but you get the point.)

My thoughts exactly.

[Chopper]

My thoughts exactly.

yup, one of the fair options that should be considered to address this problem.

[WhoIsThis]

This is interesting ... a troll thread that has evolved into something resembling an half-interesting, but still half-troll discussion.




IN fact, one poster said something like, it's Skill, not Gear, that matters in PvP. I highly doubt he is PvP fighting with white and garbage grey equipment. I'd challenge him to try and fight by letting the other team choose what garbage gear he gets to use instead of his Elite equipment either. Gear makes a huge difference in the entire game.

That would be me.

As mentioned before, I have fought players in Mega Mage gear (55) before against the crafted Lilith set (65) and compared favorably when said player was not very skilled. Against skilled players, if you used items 10 levels below .... that feat is probably not possible (well ... maybe; but it would have to take a player with very high experience and skill; we're talking tens of thousands of real kills here). But crafted pinks against the cheap pinks of the game in the same tier? Viable. Very viable. Admittedly, today, the high dodge RNG trumps all skill. But that might make things even more unbalanced in favor of the weaker player.

The other thing is, in a world of low dodge (which current endgame PvP is not), when you're up against the top tier players in the game, you're up against players who have taken the time to acquire the top end gear and to get every advantage that they can. In such a world skill is the dominant decider, although RNG does play a lesser role here too.

Finally, if you want further proof that skill > gear, go to the 55 tier. Lets take dex bird combat for an example. Excluding forgotten weapons, you'll find people in raid roach and custom gear losing to more skilled players in cheap drainers oranges.



Skill wont overcome your garbage grey items when faced with a decent player using full crafted top gear and Elites.

Also - who PvPs in "white" gear? Oranges, greens, purples, often do offer advantages in the 55 tier that the 55 pinks did not.

Further proof? When 61 was the cap, let's just say that one of the most embarrassing bird vs bird matches I ever saw (for the high level player) was a PvE player in full demonic dex gear losing to a player in 55 drainers. A 61 in crafted pinks ... defeated by a 55 yellows. Yes, skill will overcome a player in cheap items against a crafted top gear even with a level difference, assuming PvP is properly balanced.

[Chopper]

I understand your point WhoisTHis, but what you are basically saying is that it relies upon being more skilled to have a chance against better gear. But gear obvious provides an advantage. Take two players of equal skill. Gear becomes a big factor. You say that no one plays with white or grey gear. Obviously gear makes a difference enough that no one even tries to use garbage drops to play PvP with.

Im not saying skill has no influence, it is has a big influence, but gear makes a difference too. a lot of times, a critical one. Anyone who thinks gear makes no difference is deluding themselves. They should play with white or grey gear and see how well they do with their "skill" against equally skilled players with crafted sets.

[WhoIsThis]

I understand your point WhoisTHis, but what you are basically saying is that it relies upon being more skilled to have a chance against better gear. But gear obvious provides an advantage. Take two players of equal skill. Gear becomes a big factor. You say that no one plays with white or grey gear. Obviously gear makes a difference enough that no one even tries to use garbage drops to play PvP with.

I just contradicted you. I said that people play in drainers yellows. White gear strictly? Perhaps not. But gear that costs less than 1000 gold? Very much so.



And of course, it takes more skill to beat a player with better gear. PvP should be a game where skill is the decisive factor. Not dodge, not gear, not anything else. Generally the more time you spend on it, the more skilled you become at it.



Im not saying skill has no influence, it is has a big influence, but gear makes a difference too. a lot of times, a critical one. Anyone who thinks gear makes no difference is deluding themselves. They should play with white or grey gear and see how well they do with their "skill" against equally skilled players with crafted sets.

Earlier you implied that gear was the decisive advantage and that it trumped all else.

Now presented with contradictory evidence, you are forced to backtrack and say that it is just one factor.

You're repeating the same disproven argument over and over again. I just said to you that a 61 demonic dex gear player can be beat by 55 drainers. And why should people who have endgame pinks play with white gear? To appease lazy people who don't bother to farm PvE, or don't research how to play their class? Even with a gear parity (regardless of whether it's whites or pinks), you're going to find that skill should trump all else. If you don't believe me, take an experienced PvPer and have them fight against a 71 who has limited PvP experience. Take 70-71s in crafted pinks. With gear parity, tell me who wins. Have the competition repeated in white gear. You'll find that most of the time that player who wasn't as experienced is going to just find a new excuse.

In any event, players who don't spend the time to ensure that they are prepared for PvP by ensuring that they have the best character that they can get are usually not committed enough to take the time to learn how to become truly good at PvP. They go unprepared and justifiably get whipped.







What I'm hearing from you is that you dislike the conclusion that PvP is about skill. I can't comment on how well or poorly you've done on PvP (posting a screenshot of your characters and disclose HONESTLY if you have boosted if you want an analysis), but when I used to PvP, I usually get these sorts of complaints from players who lost and were generally inexperienced. You're going to find that while gear is undoubtedly important, skill will trump gear in any well balanced MMO. To become good at PvP, you need to spend time on it. That is a cruel reality.

Note that there are several people on the forums who are considered the top end-gamer PvPers / twinkers. When they lose, do you see them complaining that they lost because their opponent had superior gear? No - they usually acknowledge that they were outplayed by a more skilled opponent.

The only exception I will note at this point is the high dodge gear - that is an exception because dodge is so high that RNG rather than skill trumps all.

Edit:
On that note, how many MMOs have you played? How many years of experience do you have? Of these MMOs, how many have your PvPed in?

[Chopper]

ah, you're reaching, WhoisThis. I am willing to accept that skill plays a part in PvP because i'm a reasonable person and not some 13 year old internet flamer. Open discussion of ideas is a better way to continue the conversation than flaming. Yes, birds who charge into tanks without knowing how to use their skills, etc will have a disadvantage over those who know how to use their characters. ha

BUT, the game is a stat based game. The stats, affected by gear, is an important part of it. Especially when players are matched evenly in skill, of course. Why should one group of players automatically have a clear advantage just because of what happened when people were misled about what they were playing for?

Why dont Lvl 5 players PvP against Lvl 30 players or Lvl 30 players fight Lvl 65 players? Because of stats (damage, armour, crit, etc.). The same stats that gear give bonuses too. If gear did not have a factor, people would PvP naked in theory. GEar makes a difference. Geez, there are threads upon threads about how the Forgotten bows are overpowered. Obviously stats make a difference. DOnt delude yourself otherwise. If you did, you'd would be using grey or white junk items and fighting players of equal skill, and getting your butt kicked, i might add.

And as to your questions, you obviously haven't read the threads on this issue through. I wish you did so you understand what the points are. I dont PvP. I've said it many times before, the 50HP would make a big difference to me in surviving Yeti attacks. It's still imbalanced and people still feel misled and cheated. STS has not fixed that yet. I hope by this continuing dialogue, STS will finally realize what they did and at least fix it for the Humania Helm (since everyone now knows that STS has changed course, the other Elite items in the future can be decorative), OR balance the game by removing the old Elite bonuses. I'm not the only one saying this (see above for some examples).

again, Dragon sets giving +10 dmg, go for 45M gold. Imagine a 50HP item in the game (which is what STS took away)? Would it be worth $100M gold?

Cheers

[Elyseon]

Stats do decide an outcome, but when as a 45 bird I kill a 51 bird, it would seem skill plays a large part of this,
Until you factor in the fun endgame stats where even pure int mages can reach 25+ dodge
Then you're looking at luck even more than skill
Especially with the extreme dmg, one dodge could bring the win in just a one second fight

Ultimately in most twinking levels tho skill provided the win
Stats serve as a large aid, obviously fighting naked vs a fully equipped opponent will bring a loss

But it's not to say stats bring the outcome

[Gaunab]

I didn't read through the whole thread, but from what I have seen on the last few pages, it seems like we are back at the old "OMGelitevanitiesunbalancePvPGrrrrrr" story.

Back when this topic was raised at previous caps, you could always counter the complaints with the argument that there was in fact an equal opportunity for everyone to 'earn' these stats, maybe not instantly but at least after playing for two caps everyone would be able to have a two-piece bonus.
Now this isn't the case anymore (for doubious reasons), so anyone who started playing during MF or later will never be able to get this bonus.

It is ridiculous how many elite vanity owners argue that skill can overcome the bonus. If the bonus was that insignificant, why is everyone who posseses the vanities using them? Because it gives you an advantage. The 50 hp, 5 dodge and 10-15 armor is a lot. Without that 50 extra hp I would have at least a few hundred more deaths. And a bear with 80 dodge will only get damaged by every 5th hit, while one with 75 it will by every 4th hit.
There is no doubt elite vanities give a player an advantage over others without them.

Moreover there already is too much dodge across all classes in PvP anyways, removing the Vanity bonus would at least help the situation a little.

And if all you people are so convinced that skill is a much more deciding factor in PvP and claim that you don't need them to beat your opponents, no one should be complaining about being stripped off those stats in PvP maps.

Just my 2ct.

[WhoIsThis]

Until you factor in the fun endgame stats where even pure int mages can reach 25+ dodge
Then you're looking at luck even more than skill
Especially with the extreme dmg, one dodge could bring the win in just a one second fight


And that is why I left PvP. Endgame ... is a luck based game right now. -

[Suentous PO]

I wouldn'tind if my bonus stats were taken away from pvp, but honestly I do want every extra point in pve!!
Sue

[kellylita]

As a mage with full vanities, I must say I am upset with sts decision in not including bonuses. I have been fighting this issue alongside many others for quite sometime, and unfortunetely it looks like we won't win.

All i can say is this;

My parents were immigrants coming into America( land of oppurtunity). Although many were here before them, they were still granted rights, priveledges, oppurtunity, and equality. It is because of this complete justice and fairness that I am here today, and for that i am grateful. I can assure you, if the same injustice in this game was brought into the real world, 90 percent of us wouldn't be here.

Although this is just a game and I respect sts and their decision, I can't help but bring my morals into anything and everything I do including gaming. I am still hoping alongside many others that we all get a fair chance, so that pvp, pve can be more equal and fun!

[Chopper]

As a mage with full vanities, I must say I am upset with sts decision in not including bonuses. I have been fighting this issue alongside many others for quite sometime, and unfortunetely it looks like we won't win.

All i can say is this;

My parents were immigrants coming into America( land of oppurtunity). Although many were here before them, they were still granted rights, priveledges, oppurtunity, and equality. It is because of this complete justice and fairness that I am here today, and for that i am grateful. I can assure you, if the same injustice in this game was brought into the real world, 90 percent of us wouldn't be here.

Although this is just a game and I respect sts and their decision, I can't help but bring my morals into anything and everything I do including gaming. I am still hoping alongside many others that we all get a fair chance, so that pvp, pve can be more equal and fun!

nice.

Yeah, its always funny how those rallying against a fix of the problem are the ones that want to hold some sort of old advantage form their COPs, etc. It shouldn't affect them at all, but here they are, trying to belittle the efforts of others who are trying to even out the game. I guess they are the "plantation owners" of STS. LOL

[vampinoy]

You must have missed my post? There's no more arguments needed, STS already came out and addressed this issue...what you're doing is simply appealing for reconsideration. You need to know when to raise the white flag comrade.

FACTS:
1. Bonus Stat for previous elite cap retains (OFFICIAL)
2. Future Elite caps will not have bonus state (OFFICIAL)

The real question now is, how will Techo Email and gang reconcile both? Interesting right? She threw around different considerations to give us a starting point, such as...
1. Legacy Cap Vanities (cop,soh,and mfa) in exchange of true vanities + better stat'd ring.
2. Elite Cap Non-vanity stat'd gears
3. Elite Cap vanity proc gears
4. Elite Cap dungeon vanity (happened already)

So instead of going back to the elite bonus stat issue (quite frankly, same arguments over and over since this debate started almost 3 months ago), I suggest you guys put your heads together and make ends meet, yes? Techno Email said again and again she's open for suggestions (that will obviously not go against their official decisions).

I'll go ahead and start..
My suggestion is, they need to release better rings (either as drops or platinum) that will overlap the bonus stats coming from elite vanity gears. That way, everyone will have equal chance of acquiring them and will make the old vanities obsolete as far as bonus stats. So practically, the legacy vanities will become just for looks since rings will overlap with it if they use it in battle. STS keeps their promise that they will not remove the bonus stats right? But they never promised that they will not release an alternative that will make the legacy elite vanities obsolete. So, let's hear your suggestion? :P Forward thinking guys, c'mon.

[Suentous PO]

Options.
Yes, new rings with similar stats to match cop, nh, mfa, maybe as part of that new epic quest (similar to snowball & AO )
An option for those who have first three pieces to craft them to new effect, like, loose extra stats in pvp to gain an effect in pve. Slight luck boost, speed, or a new grafic effect like epic weps can, or an exclusive pet.

[McBain]

Non-vanity stat'd gear would have limited usefulness, unless they made it so that the stats on that item somehow level up with you as you gain further levels. The desirable aspect of the previous vanity stats is that you have them forever, regardless of what other gear you wore, simply because of the fact that they were vanities. Non-vanity gear is temporary, and will inevitably be eclipsed by future gear. Elite cap vanities with procs is an awesome idea, but doesn't solve anything with regard to stats, which quite frankly is the whole argument. Ditto for the elite dungeons. The rings idea is the only one that sort of makes sense, but even that seems like a bit of a non-solution to me as well, since all you're doing is just shifting the stats from the vanities to the ring.

It seems to me that the same argument will be taking place with any of the options presented thus far. Unfortunately, I don't have any better ideas. Well...I do, but at this point it would be just regurgitating what's already been said. The simplest solution is almost always the best solution if you ask me.

[Floating]

This thread was made by the 2nd person who rushes me on 70 pvp -.- I join and boom she rushes. This will go like the Founders Helm will go... And soon will be forgotten. AS you accepted founders accept this too. Noone forces u to wear them but noone forces you to unwear them

[shadow90]

I quit trying to cap.
I'm happy with it.
You capped and got elite vanity.
You should be grateful.

[Chopper]

Lol. Ha very mature post pony rider.

Insulting to women too. Classy.

[Sim Jing]

Lol. Ha very mature post pony rider.

Insulting to women too. Classy.

*cough*...Sarcasm...*cough*

Chopper, try not to feed this troll. He posted a post about me to tell the devs or mods to ban me. And, looking at his recent posts, it was obvious he was trying to troll. Don't feed him.

[Chopper]

*cough*...Sarcasm...*cough*

Chopper, try not to feed this troll. He posted a post about me to tell the devs or mods to ban me. And, looking at his recent posts, it was obvious he was trying to troll. Don't feed him.

good point. will do!

[Elyseon]

As a mage with full vanities, I must say I am upset with sts decision in not including bonuses. I have been fighting this issue alongside many others for quite sometime, and unfortunetely it looks like we won't win.

All i can say is this;

My parents were immigrants coming into America( land of oppurtunity). Although many were here before them, they were still granted rights, priveledges, oppurtunity, and equality. It is because of this complete justice and fairness that I am here today, and for that i am grateful. I can assure you, if the same injustice in this game was brought into the real world, 90 percent of us wouldn't be here.

Although this is just a game and I respect sts and their decision, I can't help but bring my morals into anything and everything I do including gaming. I am still hoping alongside many others that we all get a fair chance, so that pvp, pve can be more equal and fun!
Tbh idont really care that much about elite bonus, the main perk for me is the sparkles, and just like testing to get max hp, dodge armour, or what ever
But i think trying to compare an online game to real life is kinda ridiculous
Its more like me complaining, that i didnt have a chance to work in the 90s when the US was at its peak economy

[Chopper]

Tbh idont really care that much about elite bonus, the main perk for me is the sparkles, and just like testing to get max hp, dodge armour, or what ever
But i think trying to compare an online game to real life is kinda ridiculous
Its more like me complaining, that i didnt have a chance to work in the 90s when the US was at its peak economy

uh, i get the point you were trying to make, but that is a terrible example. It would be like you complaining that you can't work in the 90s at the peak economy, but are forbidden from working now because the economy is now decorative, after you spent $100k in university degrees on the expectation that you'd be allowed to work (and it was being promoted hard to spend that money). Also, there are a number of other people who have time machines that can still work in the 90s RIGHT NOW, out earning you based on the old economy. That would be the closest example if you want to use that analogy. Not so nice, is it. Unfair? Yeah.

[Seminole]

Tbh idont really care that much about elite bonus, the main perk for me is the sparkles, and just like testing to get max hp, dodge armour, or what ever
But i think trying to compare an online game to real life is kinda ridiculous
Its more like me complaining, that i didnt have a chance to work in the 90s when tohe US was at its peak economy

Kelly used a remarkable example and clearly explains why in her last paragraph. This is just a really bad counter. -1 to you sir, I think you are selfish young and ignorant. And yes this is coming from someone with a vanity bonus.

[Chopper]

STS has finally listened and now Elite Vanities are the same.

Thank you STS.

[connerlee12]

STS has finally listened and now Elite Vanities are the same.

Thank you STS.

Please, just QUIT this.

You're seriously starting to get annoying.

The discussion is already DEAD, don't try and flame it up again.
Congrats on winning your side of the debate, now quit shoving it in front of everyone's faces like that.
Bottom line: Don't beat on a dead horse.

[Chopper]

Please, just QUIT this.

You're seriously starting to get annoying.

The discussion is already DEAD, don't try and flame it up again.
Congrats on winning your side of the debate, now quit shoving it in front of everyone's faces like that.
Bottom line: Don't beat on a dead horse.

what are you talking about? This was a big issue and STS has now fixed the problem. I wanted to give kudos where they are due, and thank them on the very thread that was discussing the very issue.

Are you a bit touchy on the subject? :)

[connerlee12]

what are you talking about? This was a big issue and STS has now fixed the problem. I wanted to give kudos where they are due, and thank them on the very thread that was discussing the very issue.

Are you a bit touchy on the subject? :)
Just quit it.
You can tell 99% of the community just doesn't want to keep bringing this up, and after it's FINALLY resolved, finally some time to relax, you just have to go and rub the matter into everyone's faces over and over.
You've already posted like this last night, yet you do it again right now.
It's aggravating to me, and to everyone else who plays dis game.
We DON'T need you to go around saying "oh of course it would've ended up like this" and blah blah blah.
Everyone else just quit arguing, but you just sit there continually pestering STS.
They decided this as a whole; you didn't have any influence on them.

And a quote is:
The true winner wins with gratitude.

[Chopper]

And a quote is:
The true winner wins with gratitude.

Did you actually read my posts? I was THANKING STS.

I guess as per your quote, i am a WINNER, thanks. :)