Damage linked to weapons a serious mistake?

[MightyMicah]

I may have had a very brilliant or very stupid thought. Y'all let me know which one mmk? ;)

I just got to thinking the other day while playing various mmo's. Why does Pocket Legends have the characters set up so that your weapon of choice effects your skill damage? Do you realize how much more balanced the devs could make things if this wasn't the case?

Don't know what I'm talking about? Lemme show you an example:

Here is my level 56 big top bear's skill "stomp." In this picture my mace, however, is not equipped. Note the damage.
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m587/MightyMicah/314884D0-3D58-44EB-B85F-F933E0EDAEF7-10401-00000E9975EB5914_zps69e0fce2.jpg

Here is the same bear with the same gear and the same skill except this time the big top mace is equipped. Note the damage.
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m587/MightyMicah/8F084F07-E662-4908-8086-9B2648EF3A13-10401-00000E9973A34363_zps52611b89.jpg

So I'm thinking why not rework the skills with a maximum amount of points every few levels. Say 3max till level ten, 4max till level 15 etc. Not necessarily in that order (I didn't even think about it really) but you get what I mean.

Here's a few good things that could come from regulating skill damage apart from the weapon damage:

No essentially "OP" weapon. Or at least not near as much of a problem as we have now. No more glyph mace, forgotten bow, you name it.

No OP classes. The skills could literally be regulated at every single level potentially making the game perfectly balanced at you name what level.

More builds. Nerdy birdy, int bear, any funky, wacky build you want.

Less of a focus on gear and more on individual gamer talent. Sure armor still helps, but when the majority of damage output comes from skills alone, and those skills are regulated, the talent shown in the individual gamer will be much more noticeable.

I think the devs should rework the skill system apart from weapons. Let me know what y'all think.
Thanks!
~MM

[Whirlzap]

When the damage output like that is lowered for classes actually dependent on damage, then critical/hit % and dodge will become dominant and make PvP unbalanced.

[cookiez]

Wow nice idea

[MightyMicah]

When the damage output like that is lowered for classes actually dependent on damage, then critical/hit % and dodge will become dominant and make PvP unbalanced.

It doesn't have to be lowered though. They could still give all the classes higher damage, just without linking it to the weapon.

@Cookiez, thanks!

[Bigsleazy]

The point is to make you sacrifice damage for armor, or vice versa. If this actually happened there would be a very minor difference between somebody with no armor of any kind and somebody in the highest end gear, as far as damage goes.

Tl;dr: You're just mad that you can't do as much damage as somebody who put the time into getting high-end gear.

[Noodleleg]

My Funkypawz with Cyber Talon=Fun

[MightyMicah]

The point is to make you sacrifice damage for armor, or vice versa. If this actually happened there would be a very minor difference between somebody with no armor of any kind and somebody in the highest end gear, as far as damage goes.

Tl;dr: You're just mad that you can't do as much damage as somebody who put the time into getting high-end gear.

Actually, between players with any kind of skill, the deciding factor would be the armor. And I'm actually not mad at all...

[Mothwing]

I think this is a great idea, if this is indeed true.

+1!

[Bigsleazy]

The point is that under your proposed solution many of the different build choices will become obsolete and lead to a general drift towards thoughtless gameplay, especially in pve. Much of the "player skill" in this game is made before you even start a map when you select the gear, spec and skills to use. Weapon damage plays a significant role in these choices. If I spec as a pure int mage w/staff, I expect to do a much larger percent of the dps than say a standard Palidan. If a pally is doing only >5% less dps than me, why choose anything besides straight armor.

[MightyMicah]

The point is that under your proposed solution many of the different build choices will become obsolete and lead to a general drift towards thoughtless gameplay, especially in pve. Much of the "player skill" in this game is made before you even start a map when you select the gear, spec and skills to use. Weapon damage plays a significant role in these choices. If I spec as a pure int mage w/staff, I expect to do a much larger percent of the dps than say a standard Palidan. If a pally is doing only >5% less dps than me, why choose anything besides straight armor.

Thoughtless gameplay? Absolutely not. There would still be a vast improvement in skill determining outcome. I'm sure there are other ways to solve the problem you presented rather than the current system. For instance, causing one-handed weapons to get a certain set damage bonus to skills. Each one-handed weapon, depending on level and such, would have a different amount of damage bonus. That's just one idea.

Similar effect done in a more rational manner.

Btw, thanks for the feedback!

[Energizeric]

Sounds like you are suggesting that all gear be vanity and everyone basically has the same stats. I'm not sure why you play pocket legends then, or any rpg for that matter. Why not just a good pvp fighting game. I'm not sure what's out today, but back a couple decades ago (now I'm showing my age here....) we played mortal combat and street fighter.

Gear should absolutely matter. That is part of the customization of your character.

On another note, I do think that skill damage is a bit simplistic in a lot of ways. For example, when my bear is equipped with a xbow, I can still use the various slash skills, and very effectively -- since damage for a bow is very high, so is the damage when using the slash skills. Except when you watch my bear doing it, he is actually putting the bow in his off-hand while he punches the bad guys with his right. So that is what a slash is when he's using a bow -- just a big punch..LOL. Better would be if damage from slashes with the bow were very low since it's not an idea weapon to slash with. On the other hand, stomp should be independent of weapon and more dependent just on your overall STR stat of your character since which weapon you are holding has very little to do with how hard you can stomp on the ground.

I've noticed a similar thing with birds. I've never played with a bird character, so I'm not familiar with their skills very much, but I've seen birds using a melee weapon like a sword yet they are still able to use some of their "shooting" skills in close range. How exactly is it that they can do that? It makes little sense.

But obviously what I am discussing here is the somewhat simple nature of the programming of pocket legends. I'm guessing that more complex games like WOW probably address these issues in more detail. Perhaps it's something that pocket legends will consider in the future.

[MightyMicah]

Sounds like you are suggesting that all gear be vanity and everyone basically has the same stats. I'm not sure why you play pocket legends then, or any rpg for that matter. Why not just a good pvp fighting game. I'm not sure what's out today, but back a couple decades ago (now I'm showing my age here....) we played mortal combat and street fighter.

Gear should absolutely matter. That is part of the customization of your character.

On another note, I do think that skill damage is a bit simplistic in a lot of ways. For example, when my bear is equipped with a xbow, I can still use the various slash skills, and very effectively -- since damage for a bow is very high, so is the damage when using the slash skills. Except when you watch my bear doing it, he is actually putting the bow in his off-hand while he punches the bad guys with his right. So that is what a slash is when he's using a bow -- just a big punch..LOL. Better would be if damage from slashes with the bow were very low since it's not an idea weapon to slash with. On the other hand, stomp should be independent of weapon and more dependent just on your overall STR stat of your character since which weapon you are holding has very little to do with how hard you can stomp on the ground.

I've noticed a similar thing with birds. I've never played with a bird character, so I'm not familiar with their skills very much, but I've seen birds using a melee weapon like a sword yet they are still able to use some of their "shooting" skills in close range. How exactly is it that they can do that? It makes little sense.

But obviously what I am discussing here is the somewhat simple nature of the programming of pocket legends. I'm guessing that more complex games like WOW probably address these issues in more detail. Perhaps it's something that pocket legends will consider in the future.

I doubt balancing skills more effectively would in turn cause gear choice to be useless. Please refer to my previous comment in response to Bigsleazy.

[Yich]

Max skill of 4 until level 15? Go screw up your own level of PvP, low level is bad enough as it is... Suggestions like this brought the forgotten bow in the game, and supporters like this keep it there.

[MightyMicah]

Max skill of 4 until level 15? Go screw up your own level of PvP, low level is bad enough as it is... Suggestions like this brought the forgotten bow in the game, and supporters like this keep it there.

Thanks

[Yich]

Im just saying your suggestion alters a level of gameplay you probably dont even do. How foolish would it seem for a low level player to say "lets put more sodge into the next endgame cap, a LOT more dodge!"?

[MightyMicah]

Im just saying your suggestion alters a level of gameplay you probably dont even do. How foolish would it seem for a low level player to say "lets put more sodge into the next endgame cap, a LOT more dodge!"?

I've been playing this game before you knew what Pocket Legends was. I've played low level mages, birds, and bears, and probably accumulated 10x the amount of kills you have. I also play tons of mmo's, more than you could count. I'm giving this suggestion because we all know Pocket Legends' pvp is not balanced. Did you even read my whole thread? Did you notice the part where I said "I didn't even think about it really." In other words I'm open to suggestions. Save your mindless criticism for someone who doesn't know what logic is. Maybe he'll listen to you since you both have something in common.

[Yich]

I've been playing this game before you knew what Pocket Legends was. I've played low level mages, birds, and bears, and probably accumulated 10x the amount of kills you have. I also play tons of mmo's, more than you could count. I'm giving this suggestion because we all know Pocket Legends' pvp is not balanced. Did you even read my whole thread? Did you notice the part where I said "I didn't even think about it really." In other words I'm open to suggestions. Save your mindless criticism for someone who doesn't know what logic is. Maybe he'll listen to you since you both have something in common.

Obvious flame is obvious. Dont get your own thread locked. Ive heard of you around 51-56 PvP. Seems pretty neat for you to make a suggestion that would very much change low level, when you are known for higher level. Id like to know your low level alternates name, unless your "10x more kills" than me came from before GCD, which really wouldnt mean much today. If youre another new bird that feels pro from their new OP bow, Im just wasting my time here.

[Dynastu]

While I appreciate someone finally giving suggestions instead of just complaining about PVP imbalance, I think there are better ways of fixing the imbalance (most of which are very simple, such as changing weapon damage, armor, health pool, etc...).

Even the most ingenious suggestion anyone could muster up would never be implemented by the devs. The amount of neglection PVP receives in this game is incredible.

[Elyseon]

Actually most the games i play have skills based on weapon dmg
Should a special arrow shoot out a worn bow as powerfully as out of magically enhanced bow?

[MightyMicah]

Actually most the games i play have skills based on weapon dmg
Should a special arrow shoot out a worn bow as powerfully as out of magically enhanced bow?

Obviously bow damage would be different depending on the bow. I simply meant skills. I suppose an archer's "shot" skills like blast shot, blind shot, etc are technically supposed to be from a bow. However most skills have nothing to do with the weapon of choice. I am curious though, what games are you referring to? Cause I always thought PL was odd for linking the damage and the weapons. Maybe I'm just odd to think so xD

[Loaden]

This game has been imbalanced for a long time.
Due to Forgotten weapons dominating lower pvp games it is indeed sad.
We have already heard from the devs that they will not be removing them,
but adding more items. +If you were to think it like this, You have a weapon lets say 200-300 damage, so if you want your skills to be uneffected
Lets say blast shot, generally, if you are going to do this suggestion, Instead of spamming skills, you could just auto your opponents away.
Linking of weapons may generally be uneffective,or should i say "not needed" but PvP has already become something that is imbalanced.
Mhm.

[Loaden]

Most MMO games in Mobile go according to this
E.g Level 1-40% Level2-80% Level 3- 120% Level 4- 160%.
This are simply how most games are made off. Linking weapons and skills depend on the game.