Pvp concept " Discussion"

[Potofgreed]

Arcane legends pvp

no mmo Arpg in history has ever had balanced pvp before. No amount of rng will make it fair enough and people are some how excepting this from arcane legends.

Here are some of the issues.

High damage that overlaps, Small maps, the charge mechanic, the Auto lock mechanic, huge range,long duration immobilizers like stun,freeze, and paralyze ,invul, heals, pets and etc the list goes on.

The main issue is damage and frame data. If you 1 shot something it wasn't a fight and If you can't kill something it's meaningless.

With that being said I'm going to suggest lowering the damage to the complete minimum inside of honor pvp. I think quite a few players agree on this already.

If the damage is lowered War,mage and rogue should have any type of heal or invul removed in honor pvp.

It's way to powerful in pvp especially when you start stacking heals and invul shields.

Instead I believe pet aa's should heal and also pet aa's should have different types of invul. This should create a "Rock,paper, scissors" meta. which could probably turn out interesting if given the chance.

Do not bunch mods, buff and debuffs together in 1 pet aa or pet passive.

keep them completely separated. A heal aa, A mana aa , A invul to damage aa, A invul to stuns aa, A invul to freeze aa, etc

Imagine the damage being super low. If something like this was applied. clashes would probably last for 10 to 15mins when all the adjustments are made.

When stun,frozen,or paralyze you won't be able to use your pet aa anymore and also your pet aa can be failed

Yes you could theoretically stack 4 or 5 pet heals but this would mean you're team would be vulnerable to immobilizers and debuffs. Also Heals don't need to be made extremely powerful.

I'm asking to make pets specifically for honor pvp.

What I'm trying to get at is a slow fight till a team eventually gets wiped.

I had another idea for a map that teams would fight to get something similar to the ctf flag. Believe it or not If I remember there was actually a bug at one point and time. If you held the ctf flag it actually increased you're damage lol.

So I thought of that and applied it to this concept. the player thats holding the ball will gain a increase in damage.

The ball will decrease you're move speed and armor by a fixed percentage while periodically dealing damage to the holder. When the user dies the ball will reset to another position in the map.

Cool downs for attack skills need to be brought inline with each other. Rogues have the strongest skills with really short cool downs with no draw backs not even rogues range is effected.

But when you look at mage and war their skills have draw backs in the shape of range,charge,react and rng. Rogues don't have these issues.

Take wars chest splitter for example. If timed correctly you can stagger someone's startup animation causing their skill to fail. The thing is if you do this to rogue their cool down is so short it doesn't matter that their skill was failed.

Stuns,freeze, and paralyze last way to long. All immobilizers should last 0.3s to 0.7s.

Any type of invul especially invul to damage should last 1 to 1.2s with a semi long cool down. That being 40 to 50s. you have to be mindful when using something powerful the longer a cool down is people will think twice about using it.

Immobilizers and invul should also have grace periods similar to nekro aa grace period that way they're not abused.

Heals, Regen or leech should last 2s and the cool down will be 25 to 30s.

There's a lot of room for innovation in this realm little changes have to be made for this to be actually applied

I wrote this a few months back when people were talking about pvp.

I just wanted to emphasize Clashes should last 10 to 15mins and at the extreme 20mins.




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[Potofgreed]

A side note.

Having a 2 skill systems one for pve and one for pvp.

I could see this being helpful

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[Neutrone]

I agree on more pets in honor with different roles

[imfeared]

I've suggested having a spirit equipment only pvp. Giving these gears an actual life and to keep the OP factor down from myths and arcs. Still have some fun from a single wep non stacking proc too.

[tapsykrete]

as long as u can you use dummy accounts in honor or normal pvp still sucks, since you can easy to get level 81 or max level now.
I suggest before you enter in pvp zone normal or honor you have enough pve kills like you have 200k kills with 40k achievement pts.

[Apocalyptis]

as long as u can you use dummy accounts in honor or normal pvp still sucks, since you can easy to get level 81 or max level now.
I suggest before you enter in pvp zone normal or honor you have enough pve kills like you have 200k kills with 40k achievement pts.

PvP is dead already, you wanna make it even more? This is nonsense.


Also nice suggestion to add more variability into honor,.. but I’d keep it simple with pets :)
And lastly.. if any change would help PvP, it would be simply disabling awakens - nothing more, nothing less :upset:

[Snaptubepro]

Pvp doesnt give any profit to sts, thus reviving pvp is a total useless and a waste of times. But you have a genius suggestion where u said to lower damage brcause rpgue one shot mage, war one shot mage, mage one shot rogue is not a FIGHT. Only warrior imo balanced to fight each other due to endurance. Its either buff all classes hp or lower the damage. I suggested this long ago but player with no experience of PVP games decided to comment on my post and reject the suggestion. A proof that many rich player in this game has no skill but only a mindset of entrepeneur, not fighter.(idk what i said)

PvP in AL dont need skill, fast hand,strategy or requires u to think outside the box because the winning condition in every PvP mode is KILLS. One thing u need is to be rich. Thats all.

[Potofgreed]

PvP is dead already, you wanna make it even more? This is nonsense.


Also nice suggestion to add more variability into honor,.. but I’d keep it simple with pets :)
And lastly.. if any change would help PvP, it would be simply disabling awakens - nothing more, nothing less :upset:That doesn't change anything It's weird that you refuse to understand why that doesn't work.

It's actually really strange that probably 98% of the players genuinely doesn't understand but will some how imagine that disabling awakens will fix the issue. It doesn't and I've explained why.

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[Potofgreed]

Pvp doesnt give any profit to sts, thus reviving pvp is a total useless and a waste of times. But you have a genius suggestion where u said to lower damage brcause rpgue one shot mage, war one shot mage, mage one shot rogue is not a FIGHT. Only warrior imo balanced to fight each other due to endurance. Its either buff all classes hp or lower the damage. I suggested this long ago but player with no experience of PVP games decided to comment on my post and reject the suggestion. A proof that many rich player in this game has no skill but only a mindset of entrepeneur, not fighter.(idk what i said)

PvP in AL dont need skill, fast hand,strategy or requires u to think outside the box because the winning condition in every PvP mode is KILLS. One thing u need is to be rich. Thats all.

Pvp is for content creation

It's actually super important.

And you make sense I understand.

You're also ain't wrong either. A.l had strategy and stuff before. There was counter play, strats like stacking pulls. This was before they nerf wars pull by accident. This is because pull is a universal mechanic.

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[Jemstroyer]

I remember back in the day. Whim AA for pulling. Slag AA stun/panic. Dovabear, Crawly, Ribbit, Arc pets are OP, Twink days <3 no awake items, many twink guilds, clashes. If both teams are equal clash in endless unless someone flags hehe

[pfizer]

Long post, but I stopped reading when mage should have the same cooldown as rogue? Infinite shield yeah. Skills should be left untouched it is very balanced right now, honor pvp is the testament.

[Potofgreed]

Long post, but I stopped reading when mage should have the same cooldown as rogue? Infinite shield yeah. Skills should be left untouched it is very balanced right now, honor pvp is the testament.I didn't say that but ok



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[Potofgreed]

I remember back in the day. Whim AA for pulling. Slag AA stun/panic. Dovabear, Crawly, Ribbit, Arc pets are OP, Twink days <3 no awake items, many twink guilds, clashes. If both teams are equal clash in endless unless someone flags heheBack in the day pet spam aa existed and pvp was broken back then,

Stacked tanks blocking and gg. Pvp was filled with toxic people.

People always use this as a reference point of when pvp was good.

The truth is we didn't know better. now when I think of those times I think of how garbage pvp was. It was actually bad.

if you played the game to just play then you'll never know. info flys over your head for not wanting to understand the game. That's ok

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[Thaze]

"I don't like pvp in this game. Overhaul the entire foundation so I can enjoy it."
It sounds to me like you should get your pvp fix from another game. Honor is well designed and pvp in general needs minimal changes to be good again.

[Apocalyptis]

That doesn't change anything It's weird that you refuse to understand why that doesn't work.

It's actually really strange that probably 98% of the players genuinely doesn't understand but will some how imagine that disabling awakens will fix the issue. It doesn't and I've explained why.

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Sorry, it is you, who is refusing to accept the fact awakens destroyed PvP :) Simply, they made it extremely expensive and unbalanced for most of the players, resulting in people quitting PvP and twink zones becoming dead :crushed:.
I enjoyed PvP back then, when you didn’t need to spend 1b, to actually have a bit of fun. I had a great experience on reviving the same “feeling” on lvl 16 HC PvP, where we fought only with looted epics/legendaries and pets. (Back in 2019/2020 :) )

Great times ;-;..
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[Potofgreed]

Sorry, it is you, who is refusing to accept the fact awakens destroyed PvP :) Simply, they made it extremely expensive and unbalanced for most of the players, resulting in people quitting PvP and twink zones becoming dead :crushed:.
I enjoyed PvP back then, when you didn’t need to spend 1b, to actually have a bit of fun. I had a great experience on reviving the same “feeling” on lvl 16 HC PvP, where we fought just with looted epics/legendaries and pets. (Back in 2019/2020 :) )

Great times ;-;..


It's great when you play a game and you don't know better.

https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?679749-pvp-with-awaken-modifiers-disabled

You read this before but disabling this inside pvp doesn't fix anything



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[Apocalyptis]

It's great when you play a game and you don't know better.
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?679749-pvp-with-awaken-modifiers-disabled

Yea the link just shows you saying that "we don't listen". Is it us, or you?

The thing you still don't get is that awakens made PvP extremely expensive and unbalanced - so people stopped playing it.
Even if you changed the things you suggested, this factor would be still the same. It is absolutely not friendly for casual players, who just want to have fun without spending 1B on gear. End of discussion for me.

[Titanium]

Pvp used to be very fun until lvl cap 46.

Before awakens. Before ultra op gems.

The only way to fix this mode is to disable gems, awakens and slotted pets.

On top of that i would have set a 500 kill cooldown for 24 hours to stop the dummy farming.

Also bring a CTF kills leaderboard and TDM.

Furthermore for CTF i would have use a setting to drop the health of the team who makes the most kills without scoring.

I really dont know how devs are seeing these recommendations coming from us. I would have pvp during events which are not appealing for me. Somehow something has to be done rather than not doing anything at all.

[Potofgreed]

Yea the link just shows you saying that "we don't listen". Is it us, or you?

The thing you still don't get is that awakens made PvP extremely expensive and unbalanced - so people stopped playing it.
Even if you changed the things you suggested, this factor would be still the same. It is absolutely not friendly for casual players, who just want to have fun without spending 1B on gear. End of discussion for me.I'ma talk to this wall.

I understand what you're saying but you don't understand I can tell because you only bring that up without the other factors.

If you remove awaken and add speed sets,belts, arcane lvl 16 weapons, pets hb with +100 to all, stronger pet aa's, stronger legendary weapons, everything is fine right?.



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[Neutrone]

Yea the link just shows you saying that "we don't listen". Is it us, or you?

The thing you still don't get is that awakens made PvP extremely expensive and unbalanced - so people stopped playing it.
Even if you changed the things you suggested, this factor would be still the same. It is absolutely not friendly for casual players, who just want to have fun without spending 1B on gear. End of discussion for me."Here's why you're wrong"

*Links a post that he authored*

Lmaooo

I agree though before awakes PvP was pretty fun. Endgame was really great all the way until lvl 41. Beyond that, things started to break. Awakes are one of the factors that killed pvp (at twink levels) this is a fact.

[Potofgreed]

"Here's why you're wrong"

*Links a post that he authored*

Lmaooo

I agree though before awakes PvP was pretty fun. Endgame was really great all the way until lvl 41. Beyond that, things started to break. Awakes are one of the factors that killed pvp (at twink levels) this is a fact.It was fun when we didn't know better. But as soon as I learned. Ggs yeah awakens killed pvp yep you guys are right let's remove awaken now and seen how fun pvp is.

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[devilMors]

Awakens definitely killed twink levels. There was no balance between armor and damage awakens favoring armor so it is almost not possible to kill. If it was scaled, twink would still be alive. In my opinion, even just removing those 150, 100, 75 and 50 armors would help twink to be active again.

In PvE, a player should have at least 3 sets (ms, damage and gold sets). This mindset can also be implemented to PvP such as introducing new sets like hp, damage and armor sets. And those sets can be able to looted from crates and just like in endgame, the new sets can be made after some period of time.

PvP has always been part of the game but it is almost dead. The issue should not be neglected any further.

[Potofgreed]

Awakens definitely killed twink levels. There was no balance between armor and damage awakens favoring armor so it is almost not possible to kill. If it was scaled, twink would still be alive. In my opinion, even just removing those 150, 100, 75 and 50 armors would help twink to be active again.

In PvE, a player should have at least 3 sets (ms, damage and gold sets). This mindset can also be implemented to PvP such as introducing new sets like hp, damage and armor sets. And those sets can be able to looted from crates and just like in endgame, the new sets can be made after some period of time.

PvP has always been part of the game but it is almost dead. The issue should not be neglected any further.

Yep 100% you're right you guys are right I'm not trolling.

Now add para,eyes,belt,speed sets,new pets, lvl 16 arcane weapons, and etc .

If awaken didn't exist you're telling me pvp would be fine in 2023?. At low lvl and end game ? Be honest.

Awaken was designed to kill off low levels they knew. But they had to do it.I guess you can blame the top players at endgame for crying about it.

Back then you basically had the whole game at lvl 10-17 mainly 15-16-17 due to hauntlet. You also had people at lvl19- 21+.

I remember the end gamers back then would complain about end game being a ghost town. People also complained that people were making like 12 alts to run events at low lvl because it was so much faster.

If you remove awaken from pvp right now it's not going to solve anything. I keep saying it.

Anyways pvp dead

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[devilMors]

Yep 100% you're right you guys are right I'm not trolling.

Now add para,eyes,belt,speed sets,new pets, lvl 16 arcane weapons, and etc .

If awaken didn't exist you're telling me pvp would be fine in 2023?. At low lvl and end game ? Be honest.

Awaken was designed to kill off low levels they knew. But they had to do it.I guess you can blame the top players at endgame for crying about it.

Back then you basically had the whole game at lvl 10-17 mainly 15-16-17 due to hauntlet. You also had people at lvl19- 21+.

I remember the end gamers back then would complain about end game being a ghost town. People also complained that people were making like 12 alts to run events at low lvl because it was so much faster.

If you remove awaken from pvp right now it's not going to solve anything. I keep saying it.

Anyways pvp dead

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You have a point and probably are right. Main problem here is STS do not care about pvp. If they did, all the problems would be solved. I firmly believe that there is no magical trick that can immediately make pvp alive again. It died slowly so it can be revived slowly but it requires the intention of STS.

[Potofgreed]

They care. they wouldn't produce content if they didn't. At the same time it's a business so you have to understand from the other side of spectrum that the devs have to do what they're told.

Some People that own businesses care about their business. Now employees from time to time don't so you'll end up with something like pre nerfed breeze.

I remember I went to other brackets to test the armor vs damage. To see how much damage was needed to dent through 1,800k armor or what ever the cap was at lvl 16. I honestly don't remember. But I think you needed lvl 41 damage to get through lvl 16 awaken cap armor. Keep in mind rouges were buffed.

So I realized then we needed armor with higher damage. I realized later that is not how you solve the issue.

before honor was released I figured o you just need to make pvp it's own sperate thing in the game. Back then I didn't think sts would create it but " Honor" was a good start.

My concept of pvp is

Lower the damage so you cant be 1 shot and if it's 5v1. Currently In a 5v1 were damage is going to 100% overlap youll die in less then frame. It shouldn't be 1 shot. It should be you'll die in 300ms or 400ms. Like your hp will drain with in that time frame. Idk if this makes sense.

A new skill system for honor pvp because the pre existing skill system is developed for the old game. The old system was developed around lvl 1-16 cap. That is why you can't even charge skills in a clash. in normal end game pvp you get 1 shot. You can't react the system wasnt designed around not reacting. The charge system tells you that system was suppose to be designed around reacting.

Once you spec a point into wars invulnerable shield heal you'll always have to charge it. But what happens if you can't visually react to someone's hp dropping? You have to preemptively use heal this contradicts the whole charge system what is the point then. You'll need 2 tanks to be in a situation 1 will preemptively heal and the other has time has heal via v.c to get a rotation going. But when the damage is to high you don't even get a chance .

So a whole new sperate honor pvp can be made with toned down skills and skill removing heala from toons

The skills we have are way to powerful when the damage is low

Pets should heal. they could also be pets that decrease a teams healing %.

Basically I'm suggesting a meta that allow for counter play. Rock, paper, scissors

Honor only pets and honor only skills is what I'm suggesting.

So let's a team had a pet aa similar to toxy aa. You would counter this with a AA that gives your team stun immunity for a brief moment.

Team A will ask a question in the form of a stun aa

And team B will respond to the question with a counter.

This creates a tug of war both sides will be doing things to gain a advantage. A clash can last 10-15mins if done properly this would be decent.




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[Potofgreed]

It's funny people are trying to keep things as is because they hoarded items LOL

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[devilMors]

They produce content? I am not sure if we are talking about the same game. It has been 11 years since this game released and only difference from the beginning is Honor PvP but if you mean the past like 2013-2015 when they made some tourneys at least, I would agree with you. On the other hand, there are events every week for PvE.

What I donot understand is if pvp is not good for business as you implied, why not remove it from the game? The problem would be solved once for all.

[Neutrone]

Now add para,eyes,belt,speed sets,new pets, lvl 16 arcane weapons, and etc .

If awaken didn't exist you're telling me pvp would be fine in 2023?. At low lvl and end game ? Be honest.



I mean you're definitely not wrong there, especially for any level beyond 41. It would be a nightmare.

At lower levels it wouldn't be that big of a deal. But that would would mean the problem has only been fixed at lower levels and not pvp as a whole, so I more or less agree.

Anyway still looking forward to how they can grow/develop honor without breaking it too much. It feels a bit like old twinking days but it lacks that....spice and variety.

[Aayushh007]

PvP Doesn't Pay the Bills - Cinco 2023.

[Potofgreed]

They produce content? I am not sure if we are talking about the same game. It has been 11 years since this game released and only difference from the beginning is Honor PvP but if you mean the past like 2013-2015 when they made some tourneys at least, I would agree with you. On the other hand, there are events every week for PvE.

What I donot understand is if pvp is not good for business as you implied, why not remove it from the game? The problem would be solved once for all.True 100% they should remove it. Pvp is supposed to be pay 2 win. I think a said it himself a long time ago. It was something along the lines of " if you want to be the best then pay for it "

the game doesn't have many ways to make content that is entertaining in comparison to other games like path of exile,diablo 2,3,4, last epoch and etc. People will use the excuse that it's just a mobile game nah look at mobile legends.
The reason why I'm bringing it up is because That door with pvp is still opened but not with one shots. One actually go against the mechanics of the game.

The game only has events , housing, and awaken. Out side of that the game bricks itself in just about everything. And even with that to produce content on YouTube or twitch for this game is weird..... Diablo 2 before it was released/ remastered was still producing content mainly around crafting.

In a.l you 3x speed opening locks with a sad or happy face lol

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[Potofgreed]

PvP Doesn't Pay the Bills - Cinco 2023.I agree but it can assist in creating content for the game.

I just realized that pvp does pay the bills. Look at mobas, fps games, fighting games , and etc. It's about content creation. I feel like people don't understand when I talk about content creation. Content creation is super important. Mmo arpgs are the only genre that hasn't figured it out yet From a pvp perspective. Mmo Arpgs have it locked from a pve perspective.

Lost ark is a weird take on a mmo Arpg but that games pvp is familiar. Long stuns

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[Ayanokoji]

Hello,

I'm a big AL fan been here since 2012 and one thing I always loves was pvp but that's no more.

Pvp is now unplayable due to how expensive it is to play and unbalanced it is. I don't expect it to be perfect but it's so bad that pvp is dead and for a mmorpg that's not good.

I have an idea of introducing a ctf/tdm normal map any level pvp called [unawakend] basically its pvp were all gear is allowed like normal aslong as it doesn't have an awaken slot on it. This could be the best way to save pvp.

Taking away awakens from pvp could help the player base meaning more people spending more money and you could also add pvp gear in locks but please don't get crazy with procs of gear to make unbalanced again.

This idea is meant for casual players and non casual players to go up against each other this could be a big boost for the community and space time as a company.

You can keep normal pvp but add in a unawakend version for all levels.

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[Potofgreed]

I'm just going to talk to walls from now on

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