The forgotten difference

[Yich]

There has been a lot of arguing about forgotten weapons in the past, this is true. Some would say that another forgotten weapon thread would be kicking a dead horse. I disagree, and I have something new to bring to the table.

Exhibit A
17470

Here we have a picture of the difference between an Elite blaster set and a forgotten bow, which is about to be equipped. The forgotten bow gives slightly more DPS and hit %, which points in its favor, but again, slightly. It lowers armor, dodge, health regen, and mana pool. The proc lowers hit % by 30 %, which really isn't much considering the average endgamer has oober high hit % anyway.

Next, Exhibit B

17471

This is a level 51 with what I would consider "top tier" gear. While this is not as accurate due to the fact that it would be an impossible dual spec, it still proves my final point in a way. First, the stats are not that much higher than the old "top tier" gear. If you think they are, you might not want to see the next screenshots to come.

Exhibit C

17472

This is the stat difference from a level 17 pink talon and 15 pink (platinum purchased) wing. This was a very common combination among low level bears in the past, not so much now. I think the dps being multiplied by itself speaks for itself, but just in case, I'll help it. If you haven't already noticed, DPS in low level is actually DPS. The tiny amount of armor means that the DPS stat will be much more accurate on the battlefield. Just to clarify, this is 2x the DPS from the previous common weapon.

Exhibit D

17473

The previous "special" weapon. The Snowball Launcher (SBL), is very much overpowered in low level PvP. This was also a commonly used weapon before the forgotten bows, the 15 purple SBL. It ranged from 350-500k. The proc freezes your opponent if you're lucky, giving you the chance to stomp them for a COMBO, dealing extra damage and looking pretty sweet. The forgotten proc debuffs hit percentage down 30%, which is a big deal in low level, where every hit counts (especially when they deal 200+ damage when buffed). Notice that the DPS goes up 62 points and the proc is debatably stronger. No stats go down in this trade for weapons, so long as you're trading for the forgotten bow.


Before the forgotten update, most (if not all) low level bears were pure spec dexterity. At 51-56 PvP, bears dual spec-ed dexterity and strength. At endgame, anything was possible, but usually the only pure dexterity spec would be a bird.

The point (finally): 70-71 PvP was slightly affected by this update because the weapons stats just weren't up to par to compete with the endgame weapons in the first place. It's just not worth giving up the set bonus and 70 crafted weapons/shields (or 71 elite blaster in this case). 51-56 PvP was affected because the stats on the forgotten weapons slightly trump the stats on the 51-56 weapons, but when the base stat requirement was raised, PvP mostly returned to normal, as few gave up their dual spec to equip a forgotten bow. Lastly, we have 10-17 PvP, where the stat difference is pretty similar, and obviously overpowered. The damage doubles that of the previously used weapons, and even goes as far as to add to other stats like dodge and hit % (when paired with the SBL). Since most low level bears were pure spec anyway, the base dexterity requirement being raised did not quite fix this weapons dominance over all others. I could write a book on how OP these bows made birds, but I don't know the first thing about birds.

I'm not quite finished though, here we have Exhibit E

17473

For all of you darlings who want to wag your finger and say "Oh but the SBL was OP before, and no one complained then :p", I show you this. A considerable amount more DPS, sure, but take a closer look. -11 Hit %, and -9 Armor. That's a huge disadvantage. HUGE. Now, you're probably saying "Oh but the SBL freezes, silly :p". I'd just like to give a free tip to those newcomers. Mages can heal out of the freeze proc. Birds can use shatter to free themselves. Bears can use stomp to free themselves, and if timed right, they can stomp a bear away, effectively juking away from the stomp while avoiding a deadly shatter combo. The SBL was beatable, shame on any who say otherwise.

Here are the last two, they go hand in hand. Exhibit F and G

17474

Me using my X-bow to kite a forgotten bow. In this situation, it is either a stalemate (because my opponent will be smart enough to run back and take cover from my long range weapon), or I am at the advantage (because my opponent will not be smart enough to do that, and I will hit them with a dozen arrows before they get within range).

17475

Me using my forgotten bow, hiding behind a wall. In this situation, it is either a stalemate (because my opponent won't walk around the wall to their guaranteed death), or I have the advantage (because my opponent is dumb enough to walk around the wall to his/her guaranteed death).


I just had to add these last two to help people visually grasp the concept that kiting doesn't always work. When the first stalemate occurs, the forgotten user must run to cover, and if they're smart, they will see the X-bow from far away and just camp behind a wall. When they take cover or sit behind said wall, the second stalemate occurs. At this point, the two must either agree to use something other than forgotten bows, or the X-bow user must switch to the forgotten bow. When either player chooses to no cooperate, it all boils down to the forgotten weapons. Since most here know that low level isn't exactly "full" of cooperative players, you can make an educated guess that they won't be calling, they will be using the OP forgotten bow in the case of a stalemate. With such an overpowered weapon, the use of it is inevitable, if someone wishes to succeed. It's not just the cheap common weapon here guys, its the only option.

Thanks for reading. (If you didn't read it all, save your flames for another time)

[Mothwing]

The horse is dead.

[Yich]

The horse is dead.

As is low level PvP.

EDIT: not that you read any of this. lol.

[Mothwing]

As is low level PvP.

EDIT: not that you read any of this. lol.

I didn't need to.

Bro, no matter how hard you try, the weapons are here to stay. It's been what, almost a month since the forgotten level was added? And you're still complaining...

[Traebeles99]

ya u need to get over it if it bothers u that much quit PvP thats all i gotta say.

[KingFu]

I didn't need to.

Bro, no matter how hard you try, the weapons are here to stay. It's been what, almost a month since the forgotten level was added? And you're still complaining...

So? If you disagreed with something strongly enough, you'd probably complain for a while too. I agree with Yich, as I'm sure many others do as well. It doesn't matter how long they've been out for. There's been zero compromise with it, and it's still a common problem for a lot of PvPers. Sitting around and keeping quiet with your opinion anything won't do anything.

[Mothwing]

So? If you disagreed with something strongly enough, you'd probably complain for a while too. I agree with Yich, as I'm sure many others do as well. It doesn't matter how long they've been out for. There's been zero compromise with it, and it's still a common problem for a lot of PvPers. Sitting around and not saying anything won't do anything.

Ok, but how many threads have been posted? Countless. If STS actually cared, they would've fixed it by now. Why fight it? Why not accept the weapons and just play.

[Yich]

ya u need to get over it if it bothers u that much quit PvP thats all i gotta say.

Thank you for your words of wisdom. Now go away.

[KingFu]

Ok, but how many threads have been posted? Countless. If STS actually cared, they would've fixed it by now. Why fight it? Why not accept the weapons and just play.

Your method is to just give up and not try to fight it. Other people have different methods, accept it. If you don't agree with this thread, and think it's a pointless attempt, don't post in it.

[Mothwing]

Your method is to just give up and not try to fight it. Other people have different methods, accept it. If you don't agree with this thread, and think it's a pointless attempt, don't post in it.

Exactly. Some things just aren't worth losing sleep over. It's a video game...

[Yich]

Ok, but how many threads have been posted? Countless. If STS actually cared, they would've fixed it by now. Why fight it? Why not accept the weapons and just play.

This one is different, even if only slightly. It shows not only before and after pictures for low level, it shows before and after pictures for high level as well. It shows how the high level players weren't affected at all, yet they still want to chime in their opinion about a part of the game in which they don't spend time in. Wouldn't it seem a bit ridiculous if someone with no endgame toon made disagreed with you about a new sets stats?

[Yich]

Exactly. Some things just aren't worth losing sleep over. It's a video game...

"It's a video game" is a like a last resort in my opinion. It IS a video game. It's a video game that I spend time and money on, not that that matters.

[Otukura]

I think we should just make the sbls and all the old weaps do 2x the damage of the forgotten stuff

[Whirlzap]

Hear ye hear ye TL;DR but yes support for a nice article^^

[Delphina]

Please keep this thread constructive. Thanks.

[Yich]

Please keep this thread constructive. Thanks.

That means a lot from you Delphina. Thanks.

[Kraze]

I read the entire post. Despite the fact that I was sure this horse was already glue. Keep in mind that while true pvp players are very passionate they do make up a small percentage of the population. Also keep in mind both Halloween and wf are right around the corner. I will be shocked if there isn't some new armor and weapons that will bring balance on the way.

For now I would suggest starting a tourney or even a pvp league (pick a level say 15 set up a schedule and track standings and end it with a "super brawl" like event. These threads are not helping anything and are overly similar to the founder freak out threads of the past

[Like-A-Boss]

I agree bows are OP,
but the horse is looonnnngggg dead...
besides, I still like killing players, no matter if their using talon/bow/snowball

[Yich]

I agree bows are OP,
but the horse is looonnnngggg dead...
besides, I still like killing players, no matter if their using talon/bow/snowball

I merely thought that visual assistance was needed for any high level regular to see how much of a stat difference the forgotten bows actually are in low level.

[Entertaining]

Your welcome for the pics, noob.

[Yich]

Your welcome for the pics, noob.
You're*. That's GG. Oh, and thanks.

[Mothwing]

I merely thought that visual assistance was needed for any high level regular to see how much of a stat difference the forgotten bows actually are in low level.

Please stop acting like the end-gamers don't know anything about twinking.

[Cahaun]

This topic used to be constructive...

Aaaaaaaaaand it's gone


IB4L

[McBain]

Some would say that another forgotten weapon thread would be kicking a dead horse.

This is where I stopped reading.

[Yich]

This topic used to be constructive...

Aaaaaaaaaand it's gone


IB4L

A moderator already posted, this obviously isnt a spam thread. Go troll elsewhere please. Do me a favor and actually read the next thread you go posting on, would ya?

[Lowlyspy]

I would say they are a bit OP in the low level ranges, my only thing is that there is a way to combat them. Kiting with an xbow, which you said yourself is an effective tactic, is a viable option and xbows at that level range aren't ridiculously expensive (at least none that i've seen, i could be wrong). If there was absolutely no way to combat the forgotten weps (meaning that they had range as well as damage) then i would agree with you, but why should the weps be nerfed even though there is a feasible option against them?

EDIT:
This topic used to be constructive...

Aaaaaaaaaand it's gone


IB4L
In the format it was posted, it is constructive. I for one would like to discuss this and right now the only reason this thread could be locked is by people doing what you did above Rasa. No trolling por favor, i'd like a nice, friendly discussion.

[Yich]

I would say they are a bit OP in the low level ranges, my only thing is that there is a way to combat them. Kiting with an xbow, which you said yourself is an effective tactic, is a viable option and xbows at that level range aren't ridiculously expensive (at least none that i've seen, i could be wrong). If there was absolutely no way to combat the forgotten weps (meaning that they had range as well as damage) then i would agree with you, but why should the weps be nerfed even though there is a feasible option against them?

EDIT:
In the format it was posted, it is constructive. I for one would like to discuss this and right now the only reason this thread could be locked is by people doing what you did above Rasa. No trolling por favor, i'd like a nice, friendly discussion.

I added a little section about X bows being a viable solution. If 2 smart pvpers face off, they will eventually be forced to use the forgotten bow. (unless they agree to not use it, and this doesnt happen often)

[Bous]

He fights for it because 15-17 pvp is what he loves to do. Its what alot of people love to do. But ever since the introduction of the f bows, 15-17 has been super unbalanced/ unplayable(mages gone extinct). I think the f bows should be a pve item only or lowered in damage significantly. Will 10-17 ever be rebalanced?

[Bous]

Aaaaaaand ill fight for it till a mod sais its permanent

[Hadesofshadow]

I've been twinking since it was invented in pocket legends

I have no problems

[Kraze]

Interesting no response to my "host a non forgotten tourney" post. Seems like a nice short term answer

[Lowlyspy]

I added a little section about X bows being a viable solution. If 2 smart pvpers face off, they will eventually be forced to use the forgotten bow. (unless they agree to not use it, and this doesnt happen often)
How many people would you say are smart pvpers in that level range compared to how many play in that level range though? :/

[Cahaun]

I never meant to troll anything so I apologise if I was rude, but the one thing we need to all do is to stop fighting over these Forgotten stuff.

Let's all reset here:


Yes it is OP and I do know the stat differences as I have lots of them over levels 10-20 and a few other levels. The only thing I used them for is PvE as I was never a PvP person though. The main advantage is the high base damage and weakness is lower range.

[Yich]

I've been twinking since it was invented in pocket legends

I have no problems

Guy above me, i am an honorary mod declared so by me and i say stfu and deal

Thank you for your words of wisdom. Now go away.

[Yich]

I never meant to troll anything so I apologise if I was rude, but the one thing we need to all do is to stop fighting over these Forgotten stuff.

Let's all reset here:


Yes it is OP and I do know the stat differences as I have lots of them over levels 10-20 and a few other levels. The only thing I used them for is PvE as I was never a PvP person though. The main advantage is the high base damage and weakness is lower range.

The problem here is: The fighting isn't because anyone disagrees with my post. Any arguement here is based around the logic of "well they didnt nerf it before when people complained about it then, so quit complaining." The entire post makes that arguement invalid, as they did fix the bows at some levels, and it was never OP at others. If anyone actually has a legitimate arguement as to why these bows shouldnt be nerfed or removed completely from low level, Id love to hear it. Otherwise, just go somewhere else..

[GoodSyntax]

Yich,

Well written and I actually do appreciate the stat information and pics. People saying that they are OP'd is not the same as showing just how OP'd they are.

With that said, there is a way to combat them, unfortunately, like a game of tic-tac-toe, good tactics usually results in a stalemate.

I completely agree that the closer to endgame you get, the more balanced the F-Bows become. In all honesty, I think that the increase in DEX requirement actually hurts more the closer to endgame that you get. Because of the high base state requirements, you can't dual spec with top end STR armor/helm and use the bow. Lower level PVP just magnifies the inability to dual spec with the bow.

Prior to the base spec reset, I had a dual-spec bear that would dominate because I had top-of-the line STR armor and an F-Bow. Now, I have to use a bow several levels lower, which has leveled the playing field (a bit).

My take is that at this point, the bow (from a damage and DPS perspective) is still overpowered, but because of the high DEX requirement, you can no longer dual-spec bears and use both STR armor and F-bows that are appropriate for your level. As strange as it sounds, low level Bow-Bears have become a bit squishy - not as bad as nuke mages, but not significantly better either. It's the age old trade-off between damage vs. survivability.

Honestly, if you take away the hit% debuff, especially for low levels, I think that the F-Bow is only a bit OP'd. Without the debuff, I would probably still prefer the SBL because of the Freeze proc so you can combo with Stomp (which at low levels is devastating!).

Just my two cents...

[Megabird56]

If there are a bunch of people that agree with you then it shouldn't be hard to find people that will agree not to use forgotten bows with you in order to maintain what you deem is the integrity of pvp.

If people don't agree to not use these bows, they must like them and enjoy using them. You don't have to play with those people.

Yeah, it's easier for noobs to kill you now so it's not as great to farm less experienced players. Is that the problem?

Otherwise, if you don't like, don't use.

[Ephesius]

There has been a lot of arguing about forgotten weapons in the past, this is true. Some would say that another forgotten weapon thread would be kicking a dead horse. I disagree, and I have something new to bring to the table.

Exhibit A
17470

Here we have a picture of the difference between an Elite blaster set and a forgotten bow, which is about to be equipped. The forgotten bow gives slightly more DPS and hit %, which points in its favor, but again, slightly. It lowers armor, dodge, health regen, and mana pool. The proc lowers hit % by 30 %, which really isn't much considering the average endgamer has oober high hit % anyway.

Next, Exhibit B

17471

This is a level 51 with what I would consider "top tier" gear. While this is not as accurate due to the fact that it would be an impossible dual spec, it still proves my final point in a way. First, the stats are not that much higher than the old "top tier" gear. If you think they are, you might not want to see the next screenshots to come.

Exhibit C

17472

This is the stat difference from a level 17 pink talon and 15 pink (platinum purchased) wing. This was a very common combination among low level bears in the past, not so much now. I think the dps being multiplied by itself speaks for itself, but just in case, I'll help it. If you haven't already noticed, DPS in low level is actually DPS. The tiny amount of armor means that the DPS stat will be much more accurate on the battlefield. Just to clarify, this is 2x the DPS from the previous common weapon.

Exhibit D

17473

The previous "special" weapon. The Snowball Launcher (SBL), is very much overpowered in low level PvP. This was also a commonly used weapon before the forgotten bows, the 15 purple SBL. It ranged from 350-500k. The proc freezes your opponent if you're lucky, giving you the chance to stomp them for a COMBO, dealing extra damage and looking pretty sweet. The forgotten proc debuffs hit percentage down 30%, which is a big deal in low level, where every hit counts (especially when they deal 200+ damage when buffed). Notice that the DPS goes up 62 points and the proc is debatably stronger. No stats go down in this trade for weapons, so long as you're trading for the forgotten bow.


Before the forgotten update, most (if not all) low level bears were pure spec dexterity. At 51-56 PvP, bears dual spec-ed dexterity and strength. At endgame, anything was possible, but usually the only pure dexterity spec would be a bird.

The point (finally): 70-71 PvP was slightly affected by this update because the weapons stats just weren't up to par to compete with the endgame weapons in the first place. It's just not worth giving up the set bonus and 70 crafted weapons/shields (or 71 elite blaster in this case). 51-56 PvP was affected because the stats on the forgotten weapons slightly trump the stats on the 51-56 weapons, but when the base stat requirement was raised, PvP mostly returned to normal, as few gave up their dual spec to equip a forgotten bow. Lastly, we have 10-17 PvP, where the stat difference is pretty similar, and obviously overpowered. The damage doubles that of the previously used weapons, and even goes as far as to add to other stats like dodge and hit % (when paired with the SBL). Since most low level bears were pure spec anyway, the base dexterity requirement being raised did not quite fix this weapons dominance over all others. I could write a book on how OP these bows made birds, but I don't know the first thing about birds.

I'm not quite finished though, here we have Exhibit E

17473

For all of you darlings who want to wag your finger and say "Oh but the SBL was OP before, and no one complained then :p", I show you this. A considerable amount more DPS, sure, but take a closer look. -11 Hit %, and -9 Armor. That's a huge disadvantage. HUGE. Now, you're probably saying "Oh but the SBL freezes, silly :p". I'd just like to give a free tip to those newcomers. Mages can heal out of the freeze proc. Birds can use shatter to free themselves. Bears can use stomp to free themselves, and if timed right, they can stomp a bear away, effectively juking away from the stomp while avoiding a deadly shatter combo. The SBL was beatable, shame on any who say otherwise.

Here are the last two, they go hand in hand. Exhibit F and G

17474

Me using my X-bow to kite a forgotten bow. In this situation, it is either a stalemate (because my opponent will be smart enough to run back and take cover from my long range weapon), or I am at the advantage (because my opponent will not be smart enough to do that, and I will hit them with a dozen arrows before they get within range).

17475

Me using my forgotten bow, hiding behind a wall. In this situation, it is either a stalemate (because my opponent won't walk around the wall to their guaranteed death), or I have the advantage (because my opponent is dumb enough to walk around the wall to his/her guaranteed death).


I just had to add these last two to help people visually grasp the concept that kiting doesn't always work. When the first stalemate occurs, the forgotten user must run to cover, and if they're smart, they will see the X-bow from far away and just camp behind a wall. When they take cover or sit behind said wall, the second stalemate occurs. At this point, the two must either agree to use something other than forgotten bows, or the X-bow user must switch to the forgotten bow. When either player chooses to no cooperate, it all boils down to the forgotten weapons. Since most here know that low level isn't exactly "full" of cooperative players, you can make an educated guess that they won't be calling, they will be using the OP forgotten bow in the case of a stalemate. With such an overpowered weapon, the use of it is inevitable, if someone wishes to succeed. It's not just the cheap common weapon here guys, its the only option.

Thanks for reading. (If you didn't read it all, save your flames for another time)


There has been a lot of arguing about forgotten weapons in the past, this is true. Some would say that another forgotten weapon thread would be kicking a dead horse. I disagree, and I have something new to bring to the table.

Exhibit A
17470

Here we have a picture of the difference between an Elite blaster set and a forgotten bow, which is about to be equipped. The forgotten bow gives slightly more DPS and hit %, which points in its favor, but again, slightly. It lowers armor, dodge, health regen, and mana pool. The proc lowers hit % by 30 %, which really isn't much considering the average endgamer has oober high hit % anyway.

Next, Exhibit B

17471

This is a level 51 with what I would consider "top tier" gear. While this is not as accurate due to the fact that it would be an impossible dual spec, it still proves my final point in a way. First, the stats are not that much higher than the old "top tier" gear. If you think they are, you might not want to see the next screenshots to come.

Exhibit C

17472

This is the stat difference from a level 17 pink talon and 15 pink (platinum purchased) wing. This was a very common combination among low level bears in the past, not so much now. I think the dps being multiplied by itself speaks for itself, but just in case, I'll help it. If you haven't already noticed, DPS in low level is actually DPS. The tiny amount of armor means that the DPS stat will be much more accurate on the battlefield. Just to clarify, this is 2x the DPS from the previous common weapon.

Exhibit D

17473

The previous "special" weapon. The Snowball Launcher (SBL), is very much overpowered in low level PvP. This was also a commonly used weapon before the forgotten bows, the 15 purple SBL. It ranged from 350-500k. The proc freezes your opponent if you're lucky, giving you the chance to stomp them for a COMBO, dealing extra damage and looking pretty sweet. The forgotten proc debuffs hit percentage down 30%, which is a big deal in low level, where every hit counts (especially when they deal 200+ damage when buffed). Notice that the DPS goes up 62 points and the proc is debatably stronger. No stats go down in this trade for weapons, so long as you're trading for the forgotten bow.


Before the forgotten update, most (if not all) low level bears were pure spec dexterity. At 51-56 PvP, bears dual spec-ed dexterity and strength. At endgame, anything was possible, but usually the only pure dexterity spec would be a bird.

The point (finally): 70-71 PvP was slightly affected by this update because the weapons stats just weren't up to par to compete with the endgame weapons in the first place. It's just not worth giving up the set bonus and 70 crafted weapons/shields (or 71 elite blaster in this case). 51-56 PvP was affected because the stats on the forgotten weapons slightly trump the stats on the 51-56 weapons, but when the base stat requirement was raised, PvP mostly returned to normal, as few gave up their dual spec to equip a forgotten bow. Lastly, we have 10-17 PvP, where the stat difference is pretty similar, and obviously overpowered. The damage doubles that of the previously used weapons, and even goes as far as to add to other stats like dodge and hit % (when paired with the SBL). Since most low level bears were pure spec anyway, the base dexterity requirement being raised did not quite fix this weapons dominance over all others. I could write a book on how OP these bows made birds, but I don't know the first thing about birds.

I'm not quite finished though, here we have Exhibit E

17473

For all of you darlings who want to wag your finger and say "Oh but the SBL was OP before, and no one complained then :p", I show you this. A considerable amount more DPS, sure, but take a closer look. -11 Hit %, and -9 Armor. That's a huge disadvantage. HUGE. Now, you're probably saying "Oh but the SBL freezes, silly :p". I'd just like to give a free tip to those newcomers. Mages can heal out of the freeze proc. Birds can use shatter to free themselves. Bears can use stomp to free themselves, and if timed right, they can stomp a bear away, effectively juking away from the stomp while avoiding a deadly shatter combo. The SBL was beatable, shame on any who say otherwise.

Here are the last two, they go hand in hand. Exhibit F and G

17474

Me using my X-bow to kite a forgotten bow. In this situation, it is either a stalemate (because my opponent will be smart enough to run back and take cover from my long range weapon), or I am at the advantage (because my opponent will not be smart enough to do that, and I will hit them with a dozen arrows before they get within range).

17475

Me using my forgotten bow, hiding behind a wall. In this situation, it is either a stalemate (because my opponent won't walk around the wall to their guaranteed death), or I have the advantage (because my opponent is dumb enough to walk around the wall to his/her guaranteed death).


I just had to add these last two to help people visually grasp the concept that kiting doesn't always work. When the first stalemate occurs, the forgotten user must run to cover, and if they're smart, they will see the X-bow from far away and just camp behind a wall. When they take cover or sit behind said wall, the second stalemate occurs. At this point, the two must either agree to use something other than forgotten bows, or the X-bow user must switch to the forgotten bow. When either player chooses to no cooperate, it all boils down to the forgotten weapons. Since most here know that low level isn't exactly "full" of cooperative players, you can make an educated guess that they won't be calling, they will be using the OP forgotten bow in the case of a stalemate. With such an overpowered weapon, the use of it is inevitable, if someone wishes to succeed. It's not just the cheap common weapon here guys, its the only option.

Thanks for reading. (If you didn't read it all, save your flames for another time)

My 67 mage wearing 65 gear was winning against level 70 birds. You Were one of them

[Brave Sir Robin]

This is very informative.

One question: is elite blaster range-wise a recurve or an x-bow? Does it have a range advantage compared to forgotten (forgotten is a recurve)? Judging by the speed it seems it's a recurve.

And a comment. In endgame, when you compare forgotten pink vs. blaster, you forget to mention how blaster offers a lot more crit, which further proves your point. However, compare the purple forgotten vs. blaster too!! Look at this:

Irrevocably Forgotten Bow: 215-270 Damage, 0.9 Speed, 32 Dex, 1% Hit, 10% Crit, 4 H/S, 4 M/S, 14 Armor
Forever Forgotten Bow: 219-274 Damage, 0.9 Speed, 33 Dex, 12% Hit, 7% Crit, 4 H/S, 5 M/S, 10 Armor
Elite Sea Blaster: 211-251 Damage, 0.9 Speed, 33 Dex, 9% Hit, 10% Crit, 5 H/S, 4 M/S, 14 Armor, 4% Dodge

Out of those three, I would go for the purple forgotten for PvE. Equal crit with blaster and superior damage, as you stated Hit % is high enough for birds in endgame anyway. Not to mention, unbeatable price and no boot proc!!

Back to the point, I have not decided if Forgotten was a good or a bad thing. I don't PvP and I liked that bow prices dropped to be honest. Certainly it messed up the PvP balance, but I saw that in Crim's official tournament forgotten were not allowed anyway.

Also, I liked your analysis with the stalemate :) Camping ftw lol. It reminds me of the camper-strike glory days ;)

Anyway, happy to take part in a discussion with facts and proper analysis.

[Drizzid]

If only you were this passionate about something that actually mattered, you might accomplish something worthwhile.

I'm seriously dumbfounded at the 'effort' you've put into this. I don't care either way, but hopefully the devs throw a bone so another 'I quit' thread doesn't pop up.

[Mothwing]

This is very informative.

One question: is elite blaster range-wise a recurve or an x-bow? Does it have a range advantage compared to forgotten (forgotten is a recurve)? Judging by the speed it seems it's a recurve.

And a comment. In endgame, when you compare forgotten pink vs. blaster, you forget to mention how blaster offers a lot more crit, which further proves your point. However, compare the purple forgotten vs. blaster too!! Look at this:

Irrevocably Forgotten Bow: 215-270 Damage, 0.9 Speed, 32 Dex, 1% Hit, 10% Crit, 4 H/S, 4 M/S, 14 Armor
Forever Forgotten Bow: 219-274 Damage, 0.9 Speed, 33 Dex, 12% Hit, 7% Crit, 4 H/S, 5 M/S, 10 Armor
Elite Sea Blaster: 211-251 Damage, 0.9 Speed, 33 Dex, 9% Hit, 10% Crit, 5 H/S, 4 M/S, 14 Armor, 4% Dodge

Out of those three, I would go for the purple forgotten for PvE. Equal crit with blaster and superior damage, as you stated Hit % is high enough for birds in endgame anyway. Not to mention, unbeatable price and no boot proc!!

Back to the point, I have not decided if Forgotten was a good or a bad thing. I don't PvP and I liked that bow prices dropped to be honest. Certainly it messed up the PvP balance, but I saw that in Crim's official tournament forgotten were not allowed anyway.

Also, I liked your analysis with the stalemate :) Camping ftw lol. It reminds me of the camper-strike glory days ;)

Anyway, happy to take part in a discussion with facts and proper analysis.

Elite Sea Blaster: More crit, armor, and dodge. Oh...and freaking cannonball proc.

[Brave Sir Robin]

Elite Sea Blaster: More crit, armor, and dodge. Oh...and freaking cannonball proc.

Not more crit and arm compared to the purple one.
Also, cannonball proc = boot proc ;)

[Mothwing]

Not more crit and arm compared to the purple one.
Also, cannonball proc = boot proc ;)

But were talking about PVP, no?

[Yich]

Yich,

Well written and I actually do appreciate the stat information and pics. People saying that they are OP'd is not the same as showing just how OP'd they are.

With that said, there is a way to combat them, unfortunately, like a game of tic-tac-toe, good tactics usually results in a stalemate.

I completely agree that the closer to endgame you get, the more balanced the F-Bows become. In all honesty, I think that the increase in DEX requirement actually hurts more the closer to endgame that you get. Because of the high base state requirements, you can't dual spec with top end STR armor/helm and use the bow. Lower level PVP just magnifies the inability to dual spec with the bow.

Prior to the base spec reset, I had a dual-spec bear that would dominate because I had top-of-the line STR armor and an F-Bow. Now, I have to use a bow several levels lower, which has leveled the playing field (a bit).

My take is that at this point, the bow (from a damage and DPS perspective) is still overpowered, but because of the high DEX requirement, you can no longer dual-spec bears and use both STR armor and F-bows that are appropriate for your level. As strange as it sounds, low level Bow-Bears have become a bit squishy - not as bad as nuke mages, but not significantly better either. It's the age old trade-off between damage vs. survivability.

Honestly, if you take away the hit% debuff, especially for low levels, I think that the F-Bow is only a bit OP'd. Without the debuff, I would probably still prefer the SBL because of the Freeze proc so you can combo with Stomp (which at low levels is devastating!).

Just my two cents...

This is true for the first time the F bows were added. Some time ago, it was oober common for bears at low level to be pure dex spec. When the low dex requirement was on the f bows, people went a tiny dex to use the bows, then put the rest into str. When that was fixed, people went back into pure dex, but now with a new super weapon that doubles their old DPS. I wouldnt call the problem solved here because the F bow still overpowers all.

To some others- we all know low level has a lot of inexperienced players. It's fact. Saying "now you're mad because you get beat" does not mean anything to me. As silly as the stats are on this bow, I still know how to beat it easily. I also have more pink 17 f bows than you can count on 8 hands... I simply think that these bows are too strong, and that if their stats were set equal with the SBL and talon, PvP at low level would be fun and diverse once more. If anyone has a solid arguement against this, please post it. Ill I see is people being rude or agreeing.

Edit: Id also like to say that Ive seen 2 devs post in the chat box that Techno Email will have something to say about the f bows. If her comment saying they might make armor and helms to balance it out is what they meant, Im disappointed. If Techno continues on with this trend, here is a list of different gear and their difficulty to obtain:
Random whites, Oranges, greens and purples. (next to useless in PvP, easy to get)
Platinum purchased gear (easy to get if you have plat, some is used in PvP)
Low tier pinks and purps (df leathers, doom weaps)
Discontinued items (like WF items, often used but can be costly)
Low level recipe armors (very very hard to farm, high tier gear in PvP)
Techno Emails super gear (Only F bow out so far, more to come. Easy to farm, only gear used in PvP)

Notice the trend up to low level recipes, the better the stats, the harder they were to obtain. Assuming Techno Email is creating a new tier, the trend will end at recipes. If anyone thought the WF items were OP and hard to obtain, imagine the new Techno Tier of discontinued items. Anyone without them will be at 1/2 the DPS already!

[Brave Sir Robin]

But were talking about PVP, no?

I think we discuss Forgotten bows in general since it's under the General Discussion area. Not sure tbh.

[wvhills]

before the forgotten bows weren't most low level twinks (10-30) bears? I assumed most were bears because with rage they were OP. Seems to me like bows just allow other low level classes to go dex and compete better with the bears.

[Yich]

before the forgotten bows weren't most low level twinks (10-30) bears? I assumed most were bears because with rage they were OP. Seems to me like bows just allow other low level classes to go dex and compete better with the bears.

I used a support mage in PvP in the pre forgotten era. I loved it. Bears were easier to use, but I think birds and mages had more potential. Plenty of birds showed up, some did good (vv/jake and lost was ok). Bears were definitely an easier class, but now birds are pretty OP with dodge and the ability to nuke hard.

[GoodSyntax]

I have to agree with you Yich, I am not a fan of discontinued items being so OP'd that they would be considered the "minimum required gear." This concept alienates new players, because if you missed the event, you are either going to get kill farmed by someone with the gear, or you shell out hundreds of thousands, if not millions, for gear that puts you on a level playing field.

It's certainly one thing if these discontinued items provide a slight advantage (like Founders, and other vanities with stats), but as you showcased, 2X DPS is, in a word, unfair. Yes, I too am hoarding a bunch of pink and purple F-Bows from all levels, but it is more for defense than for merching. If I want to start a new toon for lvl 17 PVP my KDR would be 0.002 if I didn't have a representative equip. These days, low level PVP is more about gear than tactics (to some extent) - which is unfortunate, because casual players simply don't have millions available to purchase elite gear. Some just want to play when they have some free time - and those are the ones who get farmed, and ultimately will quit PVP entirely.

Personally, I would favor the release of a new low level map that drops strong gear that offsets the damage of the bows. Also, introducing a crafting component would be nice. The point is that the only way to reset low level PVP is to make armor that can offset the damage widely available, and provide other weapons besides bows. I'm not talking about just a WF, or Halloween event that becomes discontinued after a couple of weeks, but a main-spine map that drops good armors and other weapons - like talons, wands, staffs, swords. Unfortunately, this is a dangerous proposition, because it makes gear from FE, SSC and other maps obsolete, but I don't see any recourse other than nerfing - which I am not a fan of. Perhaps new armor with high dodge - but again, that makes luck the biggest factor and still minimizes tactics. I wish I could find an obvious solution (other than nerfing) that would fix everything, but anything that combats the F-Bows unbalances PVP even further - the only real differentiation is that the gear has to be available to all (either through grinding, farming or purchasing), unlike these discontinued bows.

Personally, it's disappointing that everyone is specing as Dex Bears, Dexchantresses and Dex Birds. Every build has to have strengths and weaknesses. Without weaknesses, there is no variety in the game.

[Yich]

I have to agree with you Yich, I am not a fan of discontinued items being so OP'd that they would be considered the "minimum required gear." This concept alienates new players, because if you missed the event, you are either going to get kill farmed by someone with the gear, or you shell out hundreds of thousands, if not millions, for gear that puts you on a level playing field.

It's certainly one thing if these discontinued items provide a slight advantage (like Founders, and other vanities with stats), but as you showcased, 2X DPS is, in a word, unfair. Yes, I too am hoarding a bunch of pink and purple F-Bows from all levels, but it is more for defense than for merching. If I want to start a new toon for lvl 17 PVP my KDR would be 0.002 if I didn't have a representative equip. These days, low level PVP is more about gear than tactics (to some extent) - which is unfortunate, because casual players simply don't have millions available to purchase elite gear. Some just want to play when they have some free time - and those are the ones who get farmed, and ultimately will quit PVP entirely.

Personally, I would favor the release of a new low level map that drops strong gear that offsets the damage of the bows. Also, introducing a crafting component would be nice. The point is that the only way to reset low level PVP is to make armor that can offset the damage widely available, and provide other weapons besides bows. I'm not talking about just a WF, or Halloween event that becomes discontinued after a couple of weeks, but a main-spine map that drops good armors and other weapons - like talons, wands, staffs, swords. Unfortunately, this is a dangerous proposition, because it makes gear from FE, SSC and other maps obsolete, but I don't see any recourse other than nerfing - which I am not a fan of. Perhaps new armor with high dodge - but again, that makes luck the biggest factor and still minimizes tactics. I wish I could find an obvious solution (other than nerfing) that would fix everything, but anything that combats the F-Bows unbalances PVP even further - the only real differentiation is that the gear has to be available to all (either through grinding, farming or purchasing), unlike these discontinued bows.

Personally, it's disappointing that everyone is specing as Dex Bears, Dexchantresses and Dex Birds. Every build has to have strengths and weaknesses. Without weaknesses, there is no variety in the game.

This seems like the recognition of a problem but refusal to accept the correct solution. When I say nerf, regardless of what other people mean, I mean they should be balanced. At 2x the damage of others, being balanced would mean they need to be nerfed. I guess I'll start saying they need balance. I would have been very much up for the forgotten update had the stats been balanced with other weapons at their level. I thought it was some kind of joke when people argued that they shouldn't be balanced, but is watevs.

[Thelastblink]

I really hope the devs just give us their decision........ I've been waiting for more than a month and they havent even said if they will nerf or wont nerf..... If your not gonna nerf and its final.... TELL US!
If you are gonna nerf TELL US! Just tell us the truth, its not like we are gonna kill you if you say no nerfing....

[Reunegade]

Guys, just wait. Techno already said that they were going to release new items to balance stuff out. I can't stand it either, but what use is there in complaining? Just wait until they release the new items.

And by the way, you should be more specific. Only the forgotten bows should be nerfed.






Reun :star:

[Yich]

Guys, just wait. Techno already said that they were going to release new items to balance stuff out. I can't stand it either, but what use is there in complaining? Just wait until they release the new items.

And by the way, you should be more specific. Only the forgotten bows should be nerfed.






Reun :star:

The other F weapons have pretty high damage, but I'll look closer to find out for sure. Also, if Techno Email continues with her current trend, adding new armor and helms won't be a very good solution, as she will discontinue them too...

[Reunegade]

The other F weapons have pretty high damage, but I'll look closer to find out for sure. Also, if Techno Email continues with her current trend, adding new armor and helms won't be a very good solution, as she will discontinue them too...
But the thing with the other forgotten items are that not alot of ppl use the other forgotten items. And if Techno does add helms and armors, then there will be even more chaos in the forums -_- Let's just cross our fingers and hope that they'll just make new weapons.

[Yich]

But the thing with the other forgotten items are that not alot of ppl use the other forgotten items. And if Techno does add helms and armors, then there will be even more chaos in the forums -_- Let's just cross our fingers and hope that they'll just make new weapons.

Techno Email making new easy to obtain weapons would still undermine the previous tier, since in the past, the more effective an item was, the harder it was to obtain. I see no reason for Techno to change this, but I guess she writes the code.

[Reunegade]

Who ever said Techno was going to make easy-to-obtain weapons? But of course, she never said she was going to make hard-to-obtain weapons O.o

[MightyMicah]

The horse is only dead for those who want it dead...

Yich, this is a great thread. It's about time you stopped spamming everywhere and brought the hardcore proof and logic. Well done dude. I couldn't agree more. Everyone who was anyone in this game agrees with us. I just wish those guys would hop on the forums. The devs do what they think is best. From what they've seen, most people like the new bows. They've seen wrong.

~MM

[Yich]

The horse is only dead for those who want it dead...

Yich, this is a great thread. It's about time you stopped spamming everywhere and brought the hardcore proof and logic. Well done dude. I couldn't agree more. Everyone who was anyone in this game agrees with us. I just wish those guys would hop on the forums. The devs do what they think is best. From what they've seen, most people like the new bows. They've seen wrong.

~MM

Thanks for your support. People PM me in game saying they agree with my thread.. Only making me question as to why they didn't post on it... Oh well. To each their own..

[Like-A-Boss]

Alright guys,
Think about.
Devs are people who program this game on various platforms ranging from IOS to Droid (forgot what Android platform was called)
to flash for PC? So they probably can do math and can tell what stats the bows are...

I'm pretty sure they have a solution to this problem. They just don't want to release it a month after F Bows...
What's the point of creating F bows? - Attract more people to play since school starting in Sept. takes alot of players away...

To remove/nerd F bows will be real nice for low lv pvp, yes, but...
Devs prob want to make their hard work count for something and last a while...
Prob halloween or xmas events will overpower bows, although that would be scary.. since bows are high hitting enough...
Prob a nerf or better proc for new items that will make bows more balanced...

And to all those people who say ppl this is down right logic..
80% of you didn't read the post word to word..

if you're aoa, then I would understand that you actually care..
the rest are just ranters saying F bows are OP..

To me, the update doesn't make a dif cuz I own anyways and that I invested mils into sbl and tinsel and pepper which I use
quite often against bow nubs (nubs who have crap armor but use bows) for fun and pro twinks who like to use talons

The major pro point of bows is that it gives more people a chance at the "pros" even though its almost total BS cuz all you do is cross your fingers (figuratively) and spam skills

I must say, pvp matches ( at least in my data ) trended upward,

Before: Not many rushers, but mostly rich people with top gear ( I admit I was close to one of these guys)
After: More non-pro players who rush, but also more people who pvp for fun

Before: 200k for duck, 200k for armor and 55 plat (at the least) for helm, shield, ring, face and talon; mostly top-tier gear lv 10-14
3m for SBL, 900k-1.4m for armor and 55 plat(at the least) for helm, shield, ring, face and talon; top-tier for SBL, but talon to be top for lv 15
you need lv 15 tinsel and pepper.. another 6m
After (bows): 200k for armor and 150k for bow 55 plat TOP gear(can't get much better)
600-800k?(art) armor and 150k for bow and 55 plat top-tier gear

Thats y more non harcore non-pro casual gamers appeared, ofc their is also a great increase in multiple chars, like one guy having 5-10 lv 10-15 twinks

Last, but not least, I see Yich's point
Bows are OP and for people (like me) who invested alot of hard work into xmas stuff, it suked alot...
The only good thing is that I have often seen people continue to use matches in serious fights, that means they still live on...

[GoodSyntax]

My point about trying to avoid nerfing the F-Bow is because they are actually very useful for PvE.

Yes, I know all the gripes about PvP - and the points are real, valid and have a lot of merit, but the overwhelming majority of PL players don't PvP - or at least not often. The bread and butter of this game is PvE, and that's exactly where the F-Bows shine.

True, there are other equips available for PvE, but the best gear, especially at low levels would be Artisan, Blacksmith, Green Ice, VooDoo, Copperhead, etc. - all of which are extremely expensive. Now certainly, I'm no apologist for cheapskates and those who are unwilling to grind and farm, but I also recognize that more than half of the PL population would be considered casual gamers - random, quick gaming sessions; nothing hardcore. I am aware that us hardcore types do spend more on average, but the 5% of the top spenders in game cannot offset the 50-75% who game casually and occasionally buy some plat for random items/maps.

We had this same argument after the Winter Fest, and true, it appears the the F-Bows make WF weapons look like pea-shooters, but I'm sure PvP can recover....eventually. It's just tough right now because there is a flood of F-Bows, much like when WF ended, there was a flood of WF SBL's, ToyMan's, Iron PJs, etc. In time, with player attrition, the inventory of F-Bows will decrease and order will be restored (to a point), it's just that right now, it seems like EVERYONE is using Forgotten weapons.

[MightyMicah]

My point about trying to avoid nerfing the F-Bow is because they are actually very useful for PvE.

Yes, I know all the gripes about PvP - and the points are real, valid and have a lot of merit, but the overwhelming majority of PL players don't PvP - or at least not often. The bread and butter of this game is PvE, and that's exactly where the F-Bows shine.

True, there are other equips available for PvE, but the best gear, especially at low levels would be Artisan, Blacksmith, Green Ice, VooDoo, Copperhead, etc. - all of which are extremely expensive. Now certainly, I'm no apologist for cheapskates and those who are unwilling to grind and farm, but I also recognize that more than half of the PL population would be considered casual gamers - random, quick gaming sessions; nothing hardcore. I am aware that us hardcore types do spend more on average, but the 5% of the top spenders in game cannot offset the 50-75% who game casually and occasionally buy some plat for random items/maps.

We had this same argument after the Winter Fest, and true, it appears the the F-Bows make WF weapons look like pea-shooters, but I'm sure PvP can recover....eventually. It's just tough right now because there is a flood of F-Bows, much like when WF ended, there was a flood of WF SBL's, ToyMan's, Iron PJs, etc. In time, with player attrition, the inventory of F-Bows will decrease and order will be restored (to a point), it's just that right now, it seems like EVERYONE is using Forgotten weapons.

The difference is pve does not suffer hardly at all without the bows, especially not with these new daily elixirs. Then pve WITH these bows really doesnt improve all that much. It just makes people be weaker and use a single-handed weapon in their lust for damage. Whereas PVP with these bows has been completely wrecked of variety and skill from levels 10-40.

[Griffinfan]

All I know is that I can own level 30 mages with my shivering x-bow.

My point is, sure the F items are over powered but no one told you to use them, if STS has a plan for them then let STS work it out, for now just go with the flow...

[Yich]

My point about trying to avoid nerfing the F-Bow is because they are actually very useful for PvE.

Yes, I know all the gripes about PvP - and the points are real, valid and have a lot of merit, but the overwhelming majority of PL players don't PvP - or at least not often. The bread and butter of this game is PvE, and that's exactly where the F-Bows shine.

True, there are other equips available for PvE, but the best gear, especially at low levels would be Artisan, Blacksmith, Green Ice, VooDoo, Copperhead, etc. - all of which are extremely expensive. Now certainly, I'm no apologist for cheapskates and those who are unwilling to grind and farm, but I also recognize that more than half of the PL population would be considered casual gamers - random, quick gaming sessions; nothing hardcore. I am aware that us hardcore types do spend more on average, but the 5% of the top spenders in game cannot offset the 50-75% who game casually and occasionally buy some plat for random items/maps.

We had this same argument after the Winter Fest, and true, it appears the the F-Bows make WF weapons look like pea-shooters, but I'm sure PvP can recover....eventually. It's just tough right now because there is a flood of F-Bows, much like when WF ended, there was a flood of WF SBL's, ToyMan's, Iron PJs, etc. In time, with player attrition, the inventory of F-Bows will decrease and order will be restored (to a point), it's just that right now, it seems like EVERYONE is using Forgotten weapons.

I remember the arguement, and that was a big reason I posted this. The pics prove that the sbl is a fair match for the oh so common talon and shield, even the sbl proc can be beaten by a smart opponent. The difference is that these are not equal to anything, and anyone with a brain can use the f bow to beat anyone without an f bow at low level. Its just OP, why must everyone argue away from the obvious solution of balancing it?

[Yich]

All I know is that I can own level 30 mages with my shivering x-bow.

My point is, sure the F items are over powered but no one told you to use them, if STS has a plan for them then let STS work it out, for now just go with the flow...

Thank you for your words of wisdom, now go away

Check the other posts I said that to, then check yourself.

[GoodSyntax]

I remember the arguement, and that was a big reason I posted this. The pics prove that the sbl is a fair match for the oh so common talon and shield, even the sbl proc can be beaten by a smart opponent. The difference is that these are not equal to anything, and anyone with a brain can use the f bow to beat anyone without an f bow at low level. Its just OP, why must everyone argue away from the obvious solution of balancing it?

I guess I'm really arguing against the concept of nerfing/rebalancing in general. I agree, F-Bows are OP'd and take no skill at all to use in PvP. I just don't like it when things get nerfed - it is an unsettling approach that does have repercussions. Frankly, OP'd items should be something that devs are aware of before they get into the general population - I can't imagine that everyone in STS would claim that they weren't aware of the stats relative to other weapons at each level - I mean, they took the time to give a name to each leveled item.

Honestly, I really don't know how many items have been nerfed in-game, but I can't imagine it has occurred often. The F-Bows have already had a base stat requirement adjustment which affected my Dex-Bear, I just don't want to get into a situation where every time I log in, something in my inventory is adjusted. I would much rather have the F-Bows worked out of the active game inventory through player attrition...and along the way if there are more people who get involved with PvP because they have a representative equip, then that's cool too.

Don't get me wrong Yich, I agree with your point...I just don't like nerfing as I feel it is too heavy handed of an approach to something that should be identified in development/testing. I'm not saying that it doesn't warrant a nerf, just that I don't like concept of nerfing as an acceptable approach to a poor judgement call when F-Bows were first conceptualized.

I can't imagine that the following was the inception of the F-Bow:

Techno: I want to make a super powerful bow that will be at least 2x better than anything else.
Everyone Else At STS: Wouldn't that destroy low-level PvP and create an imbalance?
Techno: I don't think so.
Everyone Else At STS: OK, we can just nerf it later if anyone says anything.
Techno: No, I'll just make OP'd armor with 100 dodge to combat it.
Everyone Else At STS: o.O You sure?
Techno: Yep. But it will only drop in premium, pay-to-play dungeons.
Everyone Else At STS: Uhh....won't people be upset if we keep nerfing things
Techno: No problem, we can just give them a Nerf Frisbee vanity shield.
Everyone Else At STS: Yeah, people love vanities. Let's go with it.

[cjswogkstkdg]

devs can do whatever the hell they want to do



ee hee

[Yich]

I guess I'm really arguing against the concept of nerfing/rebalancing in general. I agree, F-Bows are OP'd and take no skill at all to use in PvP. I just don't like it when things get nerfed - it is an unsettling approach that does have repercussions. Frankly, OP'd items should be something that devs are aware of before they get into the general population - I can't imagine that everyone in STS would claim that they weren't aware of the stats relative to other weapons at each level - I mean, they took the time to give a name to each leveled item.

Honestly, I really don't know how many items have been nerfed in-game, but I can't imagine it has occurred often. The F-Bows have already had a base stat requirement adjustment which affected my Dex-Bear, I just don't want to get into a situation where every time I log in, something in my inventory is adjusted. I would much rather have the F-Bows worked out of the active game inventory through player attrition...and along the way if there are more people who get involved with PvP because they have a representative equip, then that's cool too.

Don't get me wrong Yich, I agree with your point...I just don't like nerfing as I feel it is too heavy handed of an approach to something that should be identified in development/testing. I'm not saying that it doesn't warrant a nerf, just that I don't like concept of nerfing as an acceptable approach to a poor judgement call when F-Bows were first conceptualized.

I can't imagine that the following was the inception of the F-Bow:

Techno: I want to make a super powerful bow that will be at least 2x better than anything else.
Everyone Else At STS: Wouldn't that destroy low-level PvP and create an imbalance?
Techno: I don't think so.
Everyone Else At STS: OK, we can just nerf it later if anyone says anything.
Techno: No, I'll just make OP'd armor with 100 dodge to combat it.
Everyone Else At STS: o.O You sure?
Techno: Yep. But it will only drop in premium, pay-to-play dungeons.
Everyone Else At STS: Uhh....won't people be upset if we keep nerfing things
Techno: No problem, we can just give them a Nerf Frisbee vanity shield.
Everyone Else At STS: Yeah, people love vanities. Let's go with it.

I agree, but I respond with this. Why? Sure, they've updated and added new items, some stronger than others slightly. Why now, have they decided that small stats are so bad, that they need to double all the stats for low level items and make a whole new balanced tier? People can act like they did it before, but no where near this kind of scale. So to those who say "adapt, get over it, move on, they did it before they'll do it again", I say nay. There's no real reason to drastically change low level, especially when making the F bows balanced would have been better. Imagine instead of spending a lot of time and effort making new gear that wouldn't have a happy medium drop rate(drop rate is high, annoys experienced players; drop rate is low, alienates new players as they would a very small survival rate, smaller than that of the previous noobs who couldnt afford WF items), they made difficult to obtain items that were balanced with the current tier (recipe armors, plat bought helms and shields, WF weaps and JT talon) and made the F bow slightly weaker than the SBL overall. This way, people that spend more time farming/moneymaking get some kind of an advantage over the new players who can get a forgotten bow very easily, but not so much of an advantage that the newer players are alienated. If STS would spend the time they planned to us making a whole new tier of gear just to balance the F bow out and instead used it to make more items that are balanced with the current tier, I think the general population would be much happier. Instead of 1 or 2 sets of gear that dominate all, there could be 5 or 6 that all work differently and succeed in different situations.

[Kraze]

I suggested this multiple times and it gets over looked. But making these threads is similar to the occupy wall street movement. Lots of talk no action. If you so committed to twink pvp why not host an epic tourney?

Off the top of my head a get 8-16 players run it across 3 levels say 10,15,20 each player has to use at least one bird,bear,and a Mage. Assign points based on where you finish in each tier and BAM crown the ultimate super duper tinker.

Something of this scope would take sometime to finish but may actually get something accomplished other than boost post counts.

While I have zero experience in running anything like this I would be happy to help

[Yich]

I suggested this multiple times and it gets over looked. But making these threads is similar to the occupy wall street movement. Lots of talk no action. If you so committed to twink pvp why not host an epic tourney?

Off the top of my head a get 8-16 players run it across 3 levels say 10,15,20 each player has to use at least one bird,bear,and a Mage. Assign points based on where you finish in each tier and BAM crown the ultimate super duper tinker.

Something of this scope would take sometime to finish but may actually get something accomplished other than boost post counts.

While I have zero experience in running anything like this I would be happy to help

Definitely a fun idea for a tournament, not so much support or arguement against the OP. Nice idea though.

[Like-A-Boss]

The only thing I see with lv 10-17 pvp wrong is that if your higher lv(2+) and have a better bow, you will almost always win...
Rush or no...
It was like that before too except the lv gap was bigger, a lv 10 could take on a 15 and win (good players) now a lv 10 can only take up to around 12 unless he/she is really lucky(fat chance)

At lv 10-12, its mostly impartial
13-14, impartial
15 impartial
16-17 impartial
meaning that skill does affect the outcome..
Now I don't get what you all are ranting about how people get kills with no skills...
It doesn't occur that often against pro players...
Even rushers have an OK chance of winning depending on how fast you see him coming and buffing

Same lv, CONTRARY TO WHAT MOST PEOPLE SAY, skills do matter...
It helps a bunch if you can kite stomps rather then full on charge...

Last but not least, all I can say is how much time do you spend on forums posting????
I only seen Imp once in pvp matches out of 100 hours of pvp...

[Kraze]

I suggested this multiple times and it gets over looked. But making these threads is similar to the occupy wall street movement. Lots of talk no action. If you so committed to twink pvp why not host an epic tourney?

Off the top of my head a get 8-16 players run it across 3 levels say 10,15,20 each player has to use at least one bird,bear,and a Mage. Assign points based on where you finish in each tier and BAM crown the ultimate super duper tinker.

Something of this scope would take sometime to finish but may actually get something accomplished other than boost post counts.

While I have zero experience in running anything like this I would be happy to help

Definitely a fun idea for a tournament, not so much support or arguement against the OP. Nice idea though.

Frankly I'm done with the debate as it appears sts is. I'm simply trying to point out rather than spending time here looking for a change that may not ever happen go create change. Fact is far more people pve and level than lock at 10 or whatever level. Within a years time few people will even have these bows. Two years for now they will be the most sought after items for "pro" ( silly term IMO unless you got a Nike deal for using stomp) twinks to have. Plus who knows what Halloween and wf holds for ya. Basically I'm saying move on an find a way to have fun and let the angst go. It'll make ya go bald...

[Waug]

So, everything is all about very lower level pvp and forgotten bows.

First off, I dont like to pvp at this levels though I easily can end up with 4x death kill ratio, the only reason behind it is I've only buffs and TO SPAM 2 to 3 HITS ALL THE TIME. I dont just love to kill, I love strategic fight. Though that's my personal opinion may be nothing to do with this.

At this levels we all know bears are op they've grown up thinking we're real pros beating others easily noone then complained about them and ask devs to nerf them, cuz they've also grown up seeing this. what they do, they use bows to spam their damage and other few hit skills , so a high damage bow+6points damage buff, approx +30.

I never get this point, why a bow users hate forgotten bows, if it's op he can also get the benefit, the one point is yeah those bows are cheap, I've spent lot of money thinking newbs cant buy it. The weird thing is that, peoples says "a noob can beat a pro with FB easily" is that real, then I can bet either he's not noob, or you are not pro. A fb in the hand of a real newb is nothing more than a toy. Without proper build, proper skill point distribution he can only beat another newb.

Lets look at the closest op bow, snowball launcher, I wonder why did not any one want to nerf it, it was I would say it is much more overpowered than previous one, beside damages and dps it has special powers. Most of the cases people only see the external things and ignore internal matter, Ex when I was a newb alway used to see the dps of a weapon, but not going in the way I understand it now, just saying daggers are fail at pvp. Just for the range? No not at all, I just want say folks look at the damage and say wow so much extra dmg and dps, it obviously op, though that's not the point always. @yich in your original post you said, you can unfreez yourself by heal, screen etc, but then your wasting your valuable time/skill to unfreez yourself and snow continues to flow.

[Griffinfan]

Thank you for your words of wisdom, now go away

Check the other posts I said that to, then check yourself.

Easy there, this forum has enough hate on it.

If you can't be corrected and/or receive any feedback on this thread then whats the point of the thread?

[Yich]

Easy there, this forum has enough hate on it.

If you can't be corrected and/or receive any feedback on this thread then whats the point of the thread?

I guess I just assumed you were trolling and or didnt read the OP. "no one is forcing you to use the f bow"?? Really? Quote where I wrote that anyone HAS to use it. If anything, I said it would be foolish not to use it, and explained why in the OP. Its overpowered, you cant argue it isnt (i think), so a "get over it" isnt really a constructive post here.

[Yich]

So, everything is all about very lower level pvp and forgotten bows.

First off, I dont like to pvp at this levels though I easily can end up with 4x death kill ratio, the only reason behind it is I've only buffs and TO SPAM 2 to 3 HITS ALL THE TIME. I dont just love to kill, I love strategic fight. Though that's my personal opinion may be nothing to do with this.

At this levels we all know bears are op they've grown up thinking we're real pros beating others easily noone then complained about them and ask devs to nerf them, cuz they've also grown up seeing this. what they do, they use bows to spam their damage and other few hit skills , so a high damage bow+6points damage buff, approx +30.

I never get this point, why a bow users hate forgotten bows, if it's op he can also get the benefit, the one point is yeah those bows are cheap, I've spent lot of money thinking newbs cant buy it. The weird thing is that, peoples says "a noob can beat a pro with FB easily" is that real, then I can bet either he's not noob, or you are not pro. A fb in the hand of a real newb is nothing more than a toy. Without proper build, proper skill point distribution he can only beat another newb.

Lets look at the closest op bow, snowball launcher, I wonder why did not any one want to nerf it, it was I would say it is much more overpowered than previous one, beside damages and dps it has special powers. Most of the cases people only see the external things and ignore internal matter, Ex when I was a newb alway used to see the dps of a weapon, but not going in the way I understand it now, just saying daggers are fail at pvp. Just for the range? No not at all, I just want say folks look at the damage and say wow so much extra dmg and dps, it obviously op, though that's not the point always. @yich in your original post you said, you can unfreez yourself by heal, screen etc, but then your wasting your valuable time/skill to unfreez yourself and snow continues to flow.

The proc for the SBL is random, as it has always been. SBL users often times rely on the freeze and rather be safe than sorry, they get close before trying to combo, so they dont miss from range. If you are 1v1ing against the sbl and you can either A. Stomp them without them stomping you or B. save your stomp for when you are frozen and stomp them away before they stomp you, you will win. It IS beatable, many just dont think strategy enough to do that.

Also, before the F bow, bear was a very basic class against others. It was easier to be a bear, but I still think mages had more potential. Im not sure of birds, as they are a form of sorcery and black magic that I do not like. Now, birds are definitely OP as they can nuke very hard and still dodge like crazy. I use an xbow though, and it seems to get the job done.

[Griffinfan]

I guess I just assumed you were trolling and or didnt read the OP. "no one is forcing you to use the f bow"?? Really? Quote where I wrote that anyone HAS to use it. If anything, I said it would be foolish not to use it, and explained why in the OP. Its overpowered, you cant argue it isnt (i think), so a "get over it" isnt really a constructive post here.

As I see above I did not say (Quote) "Get over it" I was saying its easier to go with the flow since obvisously (500 threads about forgotten later) STS does not want to remove the bows in the near future. As for the forcing of the use of forgotten bow, you are suggesting its the only alternative by complaining about the bows stats. OP or not this issue has been exhausted on the forums and it should be obvious by now that no amount of threads will change STS's mind on this, so why not just accept it and move on with life?

[Yich]

As I see above I did not say (Quote) "Get over it" I was saying its easier to go with the flow since obvisously (500 threads about forgotten later) STS does not want to remove the bows in the near future. As for the forcing of the use of forgotten bow, you are suggesting its the only alternative by complaining about the bows stats. OP or not this issue has been exhausted on the forums and it should be obvious by now that no amount of threads will change STS's mind on this, so why not just accept it and move on with life?

I assumed since they fixed the bow problem at some levels, theyd fix it at low level as well. Since everyone argued against me and others about it being nerfed before, it wasnt clear what the community thought about bows at low level. This thread is to show everyone that it is OP, not just tell them. If STS nerfed it, that would be great, as this is just proves the bows are OP and theyve never made something this OP before at low level.

Ive noticed lately that I have no idea what Im talking about as far as the motives of STS are concerned, considering the glyph drop rate and FH recipe drop rates were both raised. I am now beginning to question what STS is doing with their game.

[Sryyoulose]

Maybe this there way of getting people to pay for the new winter and Halloween dungeons! They alone have the power to destroy the forgotten, MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
At the same time this gave more people a chance in pvp, at 17 if you had a pink Xbow, tinsel, or Sbl you'd win. Now more people have a chance to win.

[ninjaduck]

Ive been twinking in PL for ages, and I lovr the Forgotten Bows. They add something that level out the advantages of every class. E.g. an FB bowmage at level 15 now has a legitimate chance of beating a 15 dexbear.

So yea, a good argument, and a different point of view, but I have to disagree. One question though, whats that thunder hammer in your LV17's inventory? Thanks

-jm

[Kraze]

I tried subtle, tried polite so now let's try blunt. The op is slightly insulting implying that end game users can't look at the stats. The people affected are a small group of players that twink. See crims and others recent tourneys as examples of pvp moving on. It's time you did the same

[MightyMicah]

I tried subtle, tried polite so now let's try blunt. The op is slightly insulting implying that end game users can't look at the stats. The people affected are a small group of players that twink. See crims and others recent tourneys as examples of pvp moving on. It's time you did the same

I wouldn't put it like this at all, but Kraze is right. Sts doesn't have any intention of nerfing. I've tried to find out why. I thought maybe they would be making more $$$ if they don't nerf them. I can't see how though...Seems like without them nerfed people won't continue buying the plat item packs. Makes me wonder if Halloween and Christmas items will be pay per run and the gear will outshine even forgotten. Just a thought.

[Kraze]

I tried subtle, tried polite so now let's try blunt. The op is slightly insulting implying that end game users can't look at the stats. The people affected are a small group of players that twink. See crims and others recent tourneys as examples of pvp moving on. It's time you did the same

I wouldn't put it like this at all, but Kraze is right. Sts doesn't have any intention of nerfing. I've tried to find out why. I thought maybe they would be making more $$$ if they don't nerf them. I can't see how though...Seems like without them nerfed people won't continue buying the plat item packs. Makes me wonder if Halloween and Christmas items will be pay per run and the gear will outshine even forgotten. Just a thought.

I said almost the same thing four pages ago with no success. As a side note yich I've noticed that you are really quick to point out to people that double posting is frowned on. In fact I've seen threads where that will be your only post and you won't even comment on the thread itself. How many times have you done that in this thread?

[Reunegade]

The thing about Halloween and Christmas items is that over the past 2 yrs. all the stats on the Halloween and Christmas stuff were the same as their "type" of item as the year before (i.e. duckfoot has same stats as sbl). So the chances that the stats will change on the items will be very slim.

[Yich]

The thing about Halloween and Christmas items is that over the past 2 yrs. all the stats on the Halloween and Christmas stuff were the same as their "type" of item as the year before (i.e. duckfoot has same stats as sbl). So the chances that the stats will change on the items will be very slim.

Techno did say something about making an item to balance out the F bow. Also, duckfoot and sbl had around the same stats as the talon, so WF items weren't op as someone else said here.


I said almost the same thing four pages ago with no success. As a side note yich I've noticed that you are really quick to point out to people that double posting is frowned on. In fact I've seen threads where that will be your only post and you won't even comment on the thread itself. How many times have you done that in this thread?

If you're talking about when I use two posts to quote two different people, that's from when I'm on a small device and can't hit the multi-quote button, so I double post. If you look back to threads where I do point it out, it's usually on a post that isn't quoting anything, or where they could have pressed enter twice and separated their reply to a quote and their words of wisdom to that particular thread.

[Elyseon]

The thing about Halloween and Christmas items is that over the past 2 yrs. all the stats on the Halloween and Christmas stuff were the same as their "type" of item as the year before (i.e. duckfoot has same stats as sbl). So the chances that the stats will change on the items will be very slim.

Techno did say something about making an item to balance out the F bow. Also, duckfoot and sbl had around the same stats as the talon, so WF items weren't op as someone else said here.
Yeh but the WF gun actually had snow proc which actually stacked an armour debuff, increasing it's dmg on the opponent

[Yich]

Yeh but the WF gun actually had snow proc which actually stacked an armour debuff, increasing it's dmg on the opponent

a debuff that could be removed if the proper skill was used. If I am correct, the talon would win auto for auto, no skills being used.

[Elyseon]

Yeh but the WF gun actually had snow proc which actually stacked an armour debuff, increasing it's dmg on the opponent

a debuff that could be removed if the proper skill was used. If I am correct, the talon would win auto for auto, no skills being used.
Actually an xbow would and still will win auto and no skills, 13m gives no chance for opponent to deal any dmg
Forgotten bow would have 10m range

I used xbow at 15 and 16 like a year ago, and could kite non xbows and skills

Imo low level was destroyed long ago, a 30 dmg buff is ridiculous for only dealing like 20 on opponents with unbuffed auto

Other levels i have seen are 35-40 which actually allow dex birds to have a chance, mages with wands are not useless, but they are no longer the OP beast they once were at this level
At 45 the new bows are a weapon of choice, but a shock lance bear is still a good option and ballistas are still effective
From 50-endgame
Despite the increase dmg, set bonuses still make sets the better choice

Yeh they can make pvp amateurs much better
They are obviously here to stay
The complaints on this are no where near what i remember with gcd

Im not saying your point isnt valid, i just think its not necessary

If you want to get rid of these bows, take up merching and offer refuseably high offers to the owners

[Elyseon]

Also shattering doesnt unfreeze birds, its the nearly useless avian scream that does that and it needs rank 4 or 5
A build you would never find on a low level bird

Also im pretty sure its a -35% hit debuff

[hemanbeast]

Also shattering doesnt unfreeze birds, its the nearly useless avian scream that does that and it needs rank 4 or 5
A build you would never find on a low level bird

Also im pretty sure its a -35% hit debuff

Here is where we can determine that you have never twinked much down under 20, or at least haven't in the last few weeks/months

If you did you would KNOW that ALL the birds (decent ones) were dodge toy man birds, and it was and is still more than likely that shatter would NEVER land on a bird. In 10 tries at least. When the birds has evade going. You would also know a regular 18 bird was just a teensy bit worse than a level 18 bear with a regular level 18 build. Damage was never a big problem when you can dodge that many hits.

Mages had kiting and (SURPRISE) Nuking. Onebeastmage, jiven or jivon or whatever, and zetris (possibly) were better than 90% of the bear population under 17.
However, mages have been really impaired by these new bows, leaving birds as the new strong class with nothing to even the field.

[Yich]

Here is where we can determine that you have never twinked much down under 20, or at least haven't in the last few weeks/months

If you did you would KNOW that ALL the birds (decent ones) were dodge toy man birds, and it was and is still more than likely that shatter would NEVER land on a bird. In 10 tries at least. When the birds has evade going. You would also know a regular 18 bird was just a teensy bit worse than a level 18 bear with a regular level 18 build. Damage was never a big problem when you can dodge that many hits.

Mages had kiting and (SURPRISE) Nuking. Onebeastmage, jiven or jivon or whatever, and zetris (possibly) were better than 90% of the bear population under 17.
However, mages have been really impaired by these new bows, leaving birds as the new strong class with nothing to even the field.

Eggggggzactly.

[Like-A-Boss]

The proc for the SBL is random, as it has always been. SBL users often times rely on the freeze and rather be safe than sorry, they get close before trying to combo, so they dont miss from range. If you are 1v1ing against the sbl and you can either A. Stomp them without them stomping you or B. save your stomp for when you are frozen and stomp them away before they stomp you, you will win. It IS beatable, many just dont think strategy enough to do that.

Also, before the F bow, bear was a very basic class against others. It was easier to be a bear, but I still think mages had more potential. Im not sure of birds, as they are a form of sorcery and black magic that I do not like. Now, birds are definitely OP as they can nuke very hard and still dodge like crazy. I use an xbow though, and it seems to get the job done.


I assumed since they fixed the bow problem at some levels, theyd fix it at low level as well. Since everyone argued against me and others about it being nerfed before, it wasnt clear what the community thought about bows at low level. This thread is to show everyone that it is OP, not just tell them. If STS nerfed it, that would be great, as this is just proves the bows are OP and theyve never made something this OP before at low level.

Ive noticed lately that I have no idea what Im talking about as far as the motives of STS are concerned, considering the glyph drop rate and FH recipe drop rates were both raised. I am now beginning to question what STS is doing with their game.

From what you say Yich, the reason you don't like these new updates are because you are uncomfortable with them. You don't know what is going to be next and can't find a 100% way to kill every FB bow person there is out there. That is part of the game, to change and adapt. Before fbows, you felt like you were GOD, have an ironclad strategy to kill everyone no matter what wep is being used. Now fbows come out and you realize that some parts of pvp aren't 100% skills and formulated strategies... That is all part of the game. STS wants the game to become not just some boring, constantly easy to master game. So they push new features out. Some may be more game changing then others.

But from what I gather, it seems like your very conservative, like John Adams and his son John Quincy Adams. All you guys do is try to keep the situation the same with no improvements. Why? Because improvements means risk taking and fear of that is something all three of you (Both Adams and Yich) have in common. Well know what these two "presidents" have in similar? They didn't get reelected and got owned by mass majority of the people and not the elite....

[Yich]

From what you say Yich, the reason you don't like these new updates are because you are uncomfortable with them. You don't know what is going to be next and can't find a 100% way to kill every FB bow person there is out there. That is part of the game, to change and adapt. Before fbows, you felt like you were GOD, have an ironclad strategy to kill everyone no matter what wep is being used. Now fbows come out and you realize that some parts of pvp aren't 100% skills and formulated strategies... That is all part of the game. STS wants the game to become not just some boring, constantly easy to master game. So they push new features out. Some may be more game changing then others.

But from what I gather, it seems like your very conservative, like John Adams and his son John Quincy Adams. All you guys do is try to keep the situation the same with no improvements. Why? Because improvements means risk taking and fear of that is something all three of you (Both Adams and Yich) have in common. Well know what these two "presidents" have in similar? They didn't get reelected and got owned by mass majority of the people and not the elite....

If adding the forgotten bow and its op stats into the game was an improvement, so was raising the drop rate for FH recipes and 56 glyph. Take that anyway you want.

[Elyseon]

Also shattering doesnt unfreeze birds, its the nearly useless avian scream that does that and it needs rank 4 or 5
A build you would never find on a low level bird

Also im pretty sure its a -35% hit debuff

Here is where we can determine that you have never twinked much down under 20, or at least haven't in the last few weeks/months

If you did you would KNOW that ALL the birds (decent ones) were dodge toy man birds, and it was and is still more than likely that shatter would NEVER land on a bird. In 10 tries at least. When the birds has evade going. You would also know a regular 18 bird was just a teensy bit worse than a level 18 bear with a regular level 18 build. Damage was never a big problem when you can dodge that many hits.

Mages had kiting and (SURPRISE) Nuking. Onebeastmage, jiven or jivon or whatever, and zetris (possibly) were better than 90% of the bear population under 17.
However, mages have been really impaired by these new bows, leaving birds as the new strong class with nothing to even the field.
That had absolutely nothing to do with my post, I did know most birds were wand/dodge
And I mages did kite,

My post you quoted said nothing about that

But since u are the expert, enlighten me
Do birds use avian scream 4 or 5?

And does the forgotten bow not have a 35% hit debuff

[hemanbeast]

That had absolutely nothing to do with my post, I did know most birds were wand/dodge
And I mages did kite,

My post you quoted said nothing about that

But since u are the expert, enlighten me
Do birds use avian scream 4 or 5?

And does the forgotten bow not have a 35% hit debuff

This also proves you haven't been practicing your reading comprehension in the last few months. I stated that birds have EVADE *AKA DODGE* and MORE THAN LIKELY (Key Word HERE!) that SHATTER would not WORK. If the Freeze Proc worked, most of the time, the STOMP would not! Want to know why?

With Evade, most of the birds have around 50% DODGE. Now do the math, kind sir, and tell me what the chances are that two hits in a row would hit theoretically, as well as experimentally.


And to answer your question, no birds to not use avian scream in low level, except those old level 20 peppermint pounders when we had 1 avian.

EDIT: To make this easier for you, I have my final statement HERE: Birds do not need to break out of shatter because they hardly ever get AFFECTED by shatter.

[Elyseon]

This also proves you haven't been practicing your reading comprehension in the last few months. I stated that birds have EVADE *AKA DODGE* and MORE THAN LIKELY (Key Word HERE!) that SHATTER would not WORK. If the Freeze Proc worked, most of the time, the STOMP would not! Want to know why?

With Evade, most of the birds have around 50% DODGE. Now do the math, kind sir, and tell me what the chances are that two hits in a row would hit theoretically, as well as experimentally.


And to answer your question, no birds to not use avian scream in low level, except those old level 20 peppermint pounders when we had 1 avian.

maybe i should have quoted text in my comment you quoted, one sec

[Elyseon]

The forgotten proc debuffs hit percentage down 30%


Also im pretty sure its a -35% hit debuff



"Oh but the SBL freezes, silly :p".Birds can use shatter to free themselves.


Also shattering doesnt unfreeze birds, its the nearly useless avian scream that does that and it needs rank 4 or 5
A build you would never find on a low level bird

there now maybe you understand me, sry wasnt very clear first time

[hemanbeast]

there now maybe you understand me, sry wasnt very clear first time

Sry, I definitely quoted wrong quote then. I was responding to the one where you said you xbowed 15 - 16 about 13m range and stuff.
Have a nice day sir, I'm going to sleep. Until then, try making a level 15 or 12 twink. I'll get some people to try you out with xbow, talons, and then we'll see if you notice the difference with OP Bow.

GL and have fun.
See ya in Alterra, if you do come down here.

[Yich]

there now maybe you understand me, sry wasnt very clear first time

Even still, SBL wasn't OP against birds in the first place. When fighting birds at low level, the primary goal is to get off as many shots before dying (you know, cuz the dodge). Since talon and SBL are close in DPS, having more armor is significantly better. When ever I fight a good bird like vv or lost (ya know, people who didnt need the f bow), I always use talon. The armor allows for a longer life expectancy, and lets you get more hits off. Now with op birds using the f bow, I use an xbow and kite them pretty hard. It doesn't always work out in a 1v1, but in 2v2 me and Entertaining still do pretty good at low level.

[Elyseon]

Well true I haven't done it in like 6 mos lol

Nor do I like at all anymore last time I tried to get back into it I beat some guy 1v1 he raged started rushing me, kept losing then called in some of his guild to team me so I hopped out

[Kraze]

Well true I haven't done it in like 6 mos lol

Nor do I like at all anymore last time I tried to get back into it I beat some guy 1v1 he raged started rushing me, kept losing then called in some of his guild to team me so I hopped out

And the last few rage posts bring me back to what I have said numerous of times the complaints and random rage posts accomplish nothing. We get it you are mad about the bows. Get over it.

Plenty of pvp going on without them. Go host a tourney or find the other like minded players and just don't pvp against people that use the super mega bow of sad face.

[Techno Email]

Thanks for the detailed review and screenshots. This was a good, informative read!

[Thelastblink]

Thanks for the detailed review and screenshots. This was a good, informative read!

Are you going to do something about it? Or are you going to acknowledge it, say you are going to make something to solve it, then just abandon it?
I really don't want to have another situation like this, you said you were going to make something to balance it then eventually didn't. I'm not being offensive I just don't want to waste a month of my time on something which won't happen.

[Waug]

informative read!

For the devs who have created all of ths. O.o

[Thelastblink]

For the devs who have created all of ths. O.o

lol ^

[Elyseon]

Actually what would be cool would be make an npc that would craft a normal weapon + a forgotten bow of the same level and it would just increase the dmg on it some
Idk there probably some huge flaws with this, but you could keep your old gear or keep using forgotten bow and it would be more balanced hopefully o.O

[Waug]

Are you going to do something about it? Or are you going to acknowledge it, say you are going to make something to solve it, then just abandon it?
I really don't want to have another situation like this, you said you were going to make something to balance it then eventually didn't. I'm not being offensive


It's not easy to satisfy all.


I just don't want to waste a month of my time on something which won't happen.

what level do u pvp and what class, I guess as mage, every one knows even a lower level mage can beat a higher level bird, Go Go OP mage fight some "so callled" OP FB birds, it's much more fair now,