Player Development - What say you?

[MrSokoy]

Often enough you are asked the ubiquitous question, "Can you help me level?". Eagerly you acknowledge the call and immediately dive into a dungeon with the guild mate and rush through defeating the boss with a quickness; a bliss of memory quickly "forgotten" (failed pun). Could providing this type of assistance sometimes be a disservice? Take a step back and reminisce on that moment when your main toon entered the world of PL for the very first time. At inception to a vast world comprising the unlimited possibilities of the Alterra MMO, what was going through your mind? What form of influence factored in the next rational decision of which direction to take your gameplay? Pretty lonesome feeling right? But to the shamrocks, some were fortunate to acquire help from the perfect stranger, and some were fortunate enough to get it from their real life friends. Regardless of the source, we will be forever grateful to those willing helpful hands, and become determined to echo this same action to the rest of the community. I believe these characteristics of help and guidance given to you are key factors that set the foundation of your "up-bringing" as a player. If you are on the same sea blaster boat, please post your approach on player development and describe how effective it was for the player(s). How does the noob status now compare with their current status as a player?

DISCLAIMER: Discussion is meant for constructive criticism about player development, and by no means an offensive target on anyone.

[GoodSyntax]

Occasionally, I will help power level players, but only if I know that the player understands the game mechanics.

Typically though, I try to teach. It's important to me that I actually help people become better players, so I teach the basics of mob control to bears, teach combo's to a mixed group, placement and kiting to birds, the ins-and-outs of both nuking and supporting for mages, etc.

If the low level player(s) don't have the requisite skills and keeps nagging me to power level without actually applying the knowledge I try to impart, I respectfully decline power leveling any further. To continue to level up a player that doesn't want to learn team dynamics and effective gameplay does a disservice to the player and the community at large. I suspect that the influx of so many power-leveled, untrained player contributes to the nose-dive in effectiveness of the average PUG. Well, that and elixirs, but I can't do anything about the elixirs - I can however do something about the training bit.

[Chopper]

I generally dont help others power level but will help lots of times when they need to clear a map to get access to another dungeon.

Although i recall when i was trying to figure out how to beat Gurgox or the Overlord for the first time. I met lots of good friends and we tried different strategies to figure how to beat those, seemingly, unbeatable bosses at that time. Good times and good teammwork was a reward in itself. Got lots of feelings of accomplishment when the group figured out how to work together and beat them. I think if some lvl 71s were around to power me through those levels, i would not have gotten nearly the enjoyment of playing with new friends at my level and beating a hard enemy as a group and learning to work together.

[hansella]

I am always open for helping lower levels but I try to relay the fact that the time involved in personal toon development is a long and lonesome road. It is a tall order to ask a 71 to devote the time expected by some players as there are always multiple other player who would also like help. I find that the best solution is to advise in the advantages of networking. There is a huge population of players online at all hours of the day/night. I think that making many friends and connections on the long road to reaching the level cap is a cornerstone for a premium PL experience. It would be almost crippling to accompany and hold a low lvls hand through every stage of the game. It would hinder their experience and leave them unable to properly function in Alterrian society. Institutionalized.

-Brooks was here-

[kiitz]

Often enough you are asked the ubiquitous question, "Can you help me level?". Eagerly you acknowledge the call and immediately dive into a dungeon with the guild mate and rush through defeating the boss with a quickness; a bliss of memory quickly "forgotten" (failed pun). Could providing this type of assistance sometimes be a disservice? Take a step back and reminisce on that moment when your main toon entered the world of PL for the very first time. At inception to a vast world comprising the unlimited possibilities of the Alterra MMO, what was going through your mind? What form of influence factored in the next rational decision of which direction to take your gameplay? Pretty lonesome feeling right? But to the shamrocks, some were fortunate to acquire help from the perfect stranger, and some were fortunate enough to get it from their real life friends. Regardless of the source, we will be forever grateful to those willing helpful hands, and become determined to echo this same action to the rest of the community. I believe these characteristics of help and guidance given to you are key factors that set the foundation of your "up-bringing" as a player. If you are on the same sea blaster boat, please post your approach on player development and describe how effective it was for the player(s). How does the noob status now compare with their current status as a player?

DISCLAIMER: Discussion is meant for constructive criticism about player development, and by no means an offensive target on anyone.

I like your writing style.

[MrSokoy]

Thanks kiitz! I was hooked-on-phonics at an early age lolz :victorious:

[Elyseon]

I have occasionally taken down a boss for someone, or showed a quest location, but i have never powerleveled a noob soley to level them, like i dont boot them if they join me while farming, unless they beg me

[Drizzid]

I always joined pugs or created my own game up until I joined the elite. Levelling up I always felt that asking for help was wasting time I could have used to gain levels or farm potions. Ill toss someone 1-2k if they need it because I remember how slowly it would add up when I was poor. I don't help level anymore simply because I am doing all the work with absolutely no incentive.

Since level 30-35 is usually a dead zone, ill join a game if I see someone going solo. Believe it or not, many players would refuse help from a higher level, which I agree with. If you're going to get carried through the game, why even play? It's not a difficult game to progress in if you actually work towards it.

[Energizeric]

I can remember some higher level folks helping me complete quests like the cyber quest, but I never actually went out with the goal of leveling until I was trying to get to 71. I just did the quests in order, when done moved onto the next campaign, and the leveling happened on its own. That's how the game should be played. Otherwise you miss out on half of the game and the entire game story.

Perhaps I'm just old school, but I used to play RPGs many years ago BEFORE they were online, and back then it was just you and the computer. So the quests was all you had. That was the entire game.

[MrSokoy]

It definitely becomes a daunting task to provide leveling assistance when you are constantly bombarded with help requests. And you all make a great discretionary point about how and when to provide leveling assistance. I’ve discovered from experience that influence (lead by example and not dictatorship) has been a very effective approach in how a player builds his/her character. From observation, have you guys seen the players you've helped/guided contribute to the community the same idealism you’ve bestowed upon them?

[Otahaibab]

I am forever in debt to Basko.
My Master
My Pair of Helpful Hands
My Friend :)

[GoodSyntax]

... From observation, have you guys seen the players you've helped/guided contribute to the community the same idealism you’ve bestowed upon them?

One of the things I like to do is host spontaneous, unannounced giveaway events where I pose a bunch of trivia questions and the first correct answer wins a pink. Just the other day, I went to Balefort to check in on some sales, and guess what? Someone else was hosting the same type of event! Usually, someone volunteers to continue the contest with pinks and/or gold after I have run out of inventory, but this was one of those cases where I was pleasantly surprised to see this happening without any prodding by a smartass, know-it-all, level 70 paladin :-)

It's always an awesome experience to see someone that you've helped/trained/given stuff to "pay it forward" in the community. For every idiot noob begging everyone for gold and free gear, there is always the odd toon contributing back to the community. That's what I enjoy the most about this and many other MMO's - the sense of spontaneous charity, camaraderie, mentorship and LOL moments.

[Brave Sir Robin]

I used to help a lot. Had some 'bad' experiences :D , e.g.

1. A friend asked me to help, however I had bad lag in the beginning of the map. Then one guy said "this high level blows, he doesn't do anything".

2. A friend asked me to kill a boss and I tried to explain the guys the strategy of killing it. However, while I was explaining one guy aggro-ed the boss so I died :hopelessness: LOL. It was OK but then someone started to use the throw-up emoticon on me LOL.

3. A friend asked for my help but then started booting everyone else who tried to join :monkey:.

Point is, some people don't deserve our time. Sometimes we try to explain but they won't listen. At some point I was disappointed and stopped helping. However, when I tried to level some of my toons, I saw many high levels joining the maps running us through whole campaigns. I was grateful to those guys. I decided that the best way to thank them would be to do the same, continuing their work in a sense. So nowadays I never help with levelling and help with bosses only if I am not doing anything. However, I run through some low level campaigns from time to time and try to explain the game as much as possible. I believe this is the best way to help.

[GoodSyntax]

@Brave Sir Robin,

There are a lot of ingrates/beggars/slugs, etc., but don't let that keep you from helping out newbies. I was fortunate enough to help a level 19 over the weekend - he had terrible equipment, but took my advice on tanking and mob control, got better and moved up a few levels - so in the end I gave him some of my low level pinks. He deserved it, and hopefully someday, he will do the same for someone else.

What good is it to me to hoard all of my pinks on a a high level toon? I only farm so that I can give it all away, so here was someone who clearly wanted to get better in game, put in the time, so I was compelled to reward him. Not saying that everyone has to do that, but it makes me feel good that I am in a position where I can do stuff like that.

[Brave Sir Robin]

There are a lot of ingrates/beggars/slugs, etc., but don't let that keep you from helping out newbies.

Don't get me wrong. As I explain in the end I help, I just want to do it my way. To me, a gift should always be a reward for a good effort, otherwise it may pass the wrong message.

[Yich]

I got my level 1 power leveled to 65 at the mount fang cap when I started to get into PL. I did no quests. When humania cap came out, I leveled to 66 and locked xp to use my angel gear. Next I made a 71 by capping on double xp weekend at mega maze. I was also give 4,500,000 worth of gear to PvP with. Im the perfect example of a 71 noob who used elixirs hard, got an extreme amount of free power leveling and got free gear. Despite all that, I'm one of the best at level 17 PvP, I'm a fairly decent merchant, I can grasp the concept of hoarding and I have a nice little stash of level 10 mint staffs, I'm still getting better at endgame PvP, I know the ranges of my skills pretty well (especially stomp aka 8 range), and I have a decent reputation all around (well, not really).

It is key to point out that the one who power leveled me also taught me to merch, PvP, told me where to farm, introduced me to PL in the first place, taught me the important things to learn (like learning ranges instead of learning the names of all the AO pinks), told me not to do any quests and introduced me to some good players.

So my answer is yes and no. Yes, it can be a disservice to just power level a random player. The keyword is can. If you just level someone to 70 for free and teach them nothing else, they will ruin parties with their noobyness. They wont have good gear. They won't know how/when to revive. They won't know how to not be a scatter bear. They could quit from being constantly booted from PvE games/being rushed in PvP games. They'd just be better off without the power leveling.
If you just give a random player a piece of a nice set, it may teach them that if they just sit around and ask for stuff, they can get all kinds of free stuff and never have to earn anything (yeah its a game, but when you play a lot, it really is earning pixels). That would only create more beggars.

BUT, if you take a player under your wing, and teach them the important things while power leveling them and gearing them, it can be beneficial for both you and the player. It would help to know them outside of PL, but isn't completely necessary. It's also a lot of work, so be smart when choosing who to take under your wing. If you teach them to merch (which is really tough to teach IMO), they can not only earn back the initial cash you gave them, but earn back more and pay you for helping them. By setting up a newer player, you take the time it would have taken them to be a "pro" and cut it down a lot. Instead of being a level 30 who still goes to forest haven for a few weeks, they can be capped, at a good farming level (51,56,61,70 and more), and already have good gear for pvping. When you have them pvping, farming, and merching, they can help you in PvP, pay you, give you free gear etc.

So only helping a newbie in one aspect can be bad, but if you completely set them up, they can be good and help you out as well, making it worth it.

Sorry about the length and if I repeated myself a dozen times.

[Brave Sir Robin]

Sorry about the length and if I repeated myself a dozen times.

Length was OK and I didn't find it repetitive :)

I agree with most of this. Personally, I don't expect anything back (like gear, etc). If I can help developing a good player who can be independent and productive as a team member, I am satisfied.

[ely]

One time i helped myself since i am a noob
But then i took advantage of myself

[MrSokoy]

I used to help a lot. Had some 'bad' experiences :D , e.g.

1. A friend asked me to help, however I had bad lag in the beginning of the map. Then one guy said "this high level blows, he doesn't do anything".

2. A friend asked me to kill a boss and I tried to explain the guys the strategy of killing it. However, while I was explaining one guy aggro-ed the boss so I died :hopelessness: LOL. It was OK but then someone started to use the throw-up emoticon on me LOL.

3. A friend asked for my help but then started booting everyone else who tried to join :monkey:.

Point is, some people don't deserve our time. Sometimes we try to explain but they won't listen. At some point I was disappointed and stopped helping. However, when I tried to level some of my toons, I saw many high levels joining the maps running us through whole campaigns. I was grateful to those guys. I decided that the best way to thank them would be to do the same, continuing their work in a sense. So nowadays I never help with levelling and help with bosses only if I am not doing anything. However, I run through some low level campaigns from time to time and try to explain the game as much as possible. I believe this is the best way to help.

I've ran into those "bad" experiences as well. But things tend to balance themselves out when you do run into those appreciative players with similar views as you. Glad to hear you are not completely discouraged from the nuances you've experienced while helping.

[MrSokoy]

I got my level 1 power leveled to 65 at the mount fang cap when I started to get into PL. I did no quests. When humania cap came out, I leveled to 66 and locked xp to use my angel gear. Next I made a 71 by capping on double xp weekend at mega maze. I was also give 4,500,000 worth of gear to PvP with. Im the perfect example of a 71 noob who used elixirs hard, got an extreme amount of free power leveling and got free gear. Despite all that, I'm one of the best at level 17 PvP, I'm a fairly decent merchant, I can grasp the concept of hoarding and I have a nice little stash of level 10 mint staffs, I'm still getting better at endgame PvP, I know the ranges of my skills pretty well (especially stomp aka 8 range), and I have a decent reputation all around (well, not really).

It is key to point out that the one who power leveled me also taught me to merch, PvP, told me where to farm, introduced me to PL in the first place, taught me the important things to learn (like learning ranges instead of learning the names of all the AO pinks), told me not to do any quests and introduced me to some good players.

So my answer is yes and no. Yes, it can be a disservice to just power level a random player. The keyword is can. If you just level someone to 70 for free and teach them nothing else, they will ruin parties with their noobyness. They wont have good gear. They won't know how/when to revive. They won't know how to not be a scatter bear. They could quit from being constantly booted from PvE games/being rushed in PvP games. They'd just be better off without the power leveling.
If you just give a random player a piece of a nice set, it may teach them that if they just sit around and ask for stuff, they can get all kinds of free stuff and never have to earn anything (yeah its a game, but when you play a lot, it really is earning pixels). That would only create more beggars.

BUT, if you take a player under your wing, and teach them the important things while power leveling them and gearing them, it can be beneficial for both you and the player. It would help to know them outside of PL, but isn't completely necessary. It's also a lot of work, so be smart when choosing who to take under your wing. If you teach them to merch (which is really tough to teach IMO), they can not only earn back the initial cash you gave them, but earn back more and pay you for helping them. By setting up a newer player, you take the time it would have taken them to be a "pro" and cut it down a lot. Instead of being a level 30 who still goes to forest haven for a few weeks, they can be capped, at a good farming level (51,56,61,70 and more), and already have good gear for pvping. When you have them pvping, farming, and merching, they can help you in PvP, pay you, give you free gear etc.

So only helping a newbie in one aspect can be bad, but if you completely set them up, they can be good and help you out as well, making it worth it.

Sorry about the length and if I repeated myself a dozen times.

Great explanation Yich, very descriptive point of view.

[Yich]

Great explanation Yich, very descriptive point of view.

Thanks.

[MrSokoy]

The frequency of running into an ingrate compared to running into a "diamond in the rough" is definitely higher, sanguinely (not crafted..ok bad pun) this does not discourage us from continuing our ripple effect of good will. There will be times when it seems our efforts are not reciprocated (wait..do I get an antenna for that?), but don't fret my friends...since there are always new players joining our community that contribute to the momentum of our influence. We do what we can and build upon that.