Dex mage feedback...

[Superdexme]

I have a lvl 67 Mage and lately have been experimenting with different builds....today I tried a pure dex Mage (using bow) and I love it!!! Mana pool/regen is a little lower but still decent enough..skill damage is decreased but what you lose in skill damage you gain in auto weapon damage. Hit% is huge and critical is higher. The only real sacrifice is heal :/


What do you guys think? Worth it? I mostly farm lower levels so It works fantastic for me :)
Feedback much appreciated

[Bigsleazy]

Dex Mage is hands down the best farmer at lower levels, and does well at high levels too!

[ely]

Imo at about 45+ you want the extra mana from int

[Bigsleazy]

You have more than enough regen, even in full dex, to sustain you as long as you don't have to shield

[xcainnblecterx]

I been wonderin about trying a dex mage with just some int (50-65) for regeneration but I've heard it was bad at high lvls

[ely]

You have more than enough regen, even in full dex, to sustain you as long as you don't have to shield
about the only time that will happen is if youre fighting another mage that doesnt shield

[JaytB]

At lvl 67 pure int would be a way better option IMO.

The most important reasons to go dex, apart from range or access to better rings, is to either bump hit% or crit (double dmg). At lvl 65+ both crit and hit% are above 100% (for crit when buffed only), for a pure int mage (with decent gear).

The only thing you'll gain is auto-attack dmg, at the expense of A LOT of skill dmg (especially when going pure dex). Dex basically just makes your min/max/dps look cool in your stats screen, but actually means your skill dmg will suck bigtime. And then I didn't even mention mana regen or more powerful heals.

So my opinion would be, respec to pure int, get yourself a (cheap) Lilith set and do what a mage does best AKA killing everything around them.

[Superdexme]

This is strictly PVE

[ely]

elixed or no?

[Bigsleazy]

The massive hit % increase helps much much more than you would think on bosses.

[JaytB]

The massive hit % increase helps much much more than you would think on bosses.

FYI: Most bosses hardly debuff hit% at all.

[ely]

and theres all the green shield buff that adds 15 hit

[Bigsleazy]

FYI: Most bosses hardly debuff hit% at all.

It's not hit debuffs you think about, it's that most bosses have naturally high dodge. Go farm swamps, ao1 ect and tell me you hit 100% of the time

[Sryyoulose]

Imo at about 45+ you want the extra mana from int

Mana/ mana regen isn't the problem it's the crit loss.

[Sryyoulose]

It's not hit debuffs you think about, it's that most bosses have naturally high dodge. Go farm swamps, ao1 ect and tell me you hit 100% of the time

If it takes you that long to kill a boss that tru debuff you sad..

[Bigsleazy]

I've been playing mages far longer than you, don't demean me. The point I'm trying to make is that dex gives you a better damage throughput across all levels of the game due to much higher hit, much higher crit/dodge and enough damage to compansate for having less int. if you want to see my build, let me know

@ely, if I wanted your opinion on how to play a bear mediocrely I would ask.

[Ogbuehi]

So everybody says a pure int Mage is better than a Dex Mage after lvl 65?

[Griffinfan]

So everybody says a pure int Mage is better than a Dex Mage after lvl 65?

by far. I have experimented with my 71 mage in all three classes.

Str = tons of health, you never die...or do any damage
Dex = tons of damage. You feel like you can solo Mystery Mash...but no armor
Int = a beautiful blend of regen, mana pool, and armor/damage depending on if u use a staff or wand ( so perfect it makes u think it was meant to be used on a mage )

My opinion (obviously) pure INT baby.

[Bigsleazy]

How do you have more armor may I ask as int?

Edit: I'm looking at around 14 extra armor with full int, offset by increased dodge with hybrid dex build.

[Ruby!!!]

So everybody says a pure int Mage is better than a Dex Mage after lvl 65?

The actual formula for high level mage is:
More int = more kaboom!

As little as putting 67 into dex for wearing dex rings costs you like 10 damage each skill on a high level. That is a lot imagine firestorming 10 monsters. That is 100 less damage each time.

Hit percentg shouldnt be an issue from like level 30 on as its round 100 anyway.
Crit? 60+ unbuffed on endgame wand mage. Nuff said
Dps is only useful for getting compliments in forest haven town
So imo only xbow range and / or gear looks are the reasons for geing dex that level.

And the dodgy swamp boss argument? No matter how high your hit percentg is they can still dodge that. Low hit percentg shows in "miss miss miss", just watch str bears fight

[Superdexme]

I've been playing mages far longer than you, don't demean me. The point I'm trying to make is that dex gives you a better damage throughput across all levels of the game due to much higher hit, much higher crit/dodge and enough damage to compansate for having less int. if you want to see my build, let me know

@ely, if I wanted your opinion on how to play a bear mediocrely I would ask.

Are you pure dex?? Or enough dex to equip gear?

[WarTornBird]

Sounds like we got a pro mage in here. The 4 more dodge that you have cannot handle our 300+ more skill damage (overexagerated). That I can promise.

[WarTornBird]

I've been playing mages far longer than you, don't demean me. The point I'm trying to make is that dex gives you a better damage throughput across all levels of the game due to much higher hit, much higher crit/dodge and enough damage to compansate for having less int. if you want to see my build, let me know

@ely, if I wanted your opinion on how to play a bear mediocrely I would ask.

Double posting boss BUT.
At high levels whether your dex or int you've got 100 crit as is. So thats out of the question. Like I just stated the 4 extra dodge, probably not going to be much of a factor. As for the hit percent I see where your coming from but dodge doesn't rely on hit % otherwise anyone with over 100% hit would never NOT hit. And birds would more than likely be the most dominate class.

[Bigsleazy]

Double posting boss BUT.
At high levels whether your dex or int you've got 100 crit as is. So thats out of the question. Like I just stated the 4 extra dodge, probably not going to be much of a factor. As for the hit percent I see where your coming from but dodge doesn't rely on hit % otherwise anyone with over 100% hit would never NOT hit. And birds would more than likely be the most dominate class.

I was saying that the small amount of dodge gained is comparable to the small amount of armor gained from going pure int. also, this is a pve discussion, I would recomend both int and str mages over dex in pvp.

To whoever asked, enough dex for gear, rest in int. using hit face, hit+damage ring. Dex helm, chest and wing, wand as wep for ~20 low and ~45 extra wep damage and another int boost. Running 151% hit, 55% crit with total dex being 235 and total int being 238. I feel like I'm roughly as squishy in this spec as I would be in full int.

[Ruby!!!]

To whoever asked, enough dex for gear, rest in int. using hit face, hit+damage ring. Dex helm, chest and wing, wand as wep for ~20 low and ~45 extra wep damage and another int boost. Running 151% hit, 55% crit with total dex being 235 and total int being 238. I feel like I'm roughly as squishy in this spec as I would be in full int.

That sure is a very special setup ;) Just out of curiosity - what level is this and what specific gear do you use as I can't quite see what use your 3 dex equips are other than maxing your hit percentg

[Bigsleazy]

70
Hit, crit, damage, dex, dodge are all increased.

You're very special for using whatever gear people tell you too without ever trying anything new.

[Ruby!!!]

70
Hit, crit, damage, dex, dodge are all increased.

You're very special for using whatever gear people tell you too without ever trying anything new.

Ah see it's an anti establishment build! ;)

[JaytB]

I've been playing mages far longer than you, don't demean me. The point I'm trying to make is that dex gives you a better damage throughput across all levels of the game due to much higher hit, much higher crit/dodge and enough damage to compansate for having less int. if you want to see my build, let me know

@ely, if I wanted your opinion on how to play a bear mediocrely I would ask.

I disagree with your statement of higher dmg output through 'all' lvls. At lvl 65+, a pure int staff-mage deals a considerable amount more dmg as compared to any dex mage.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to demean you in any way possible. It's just the results I got in countless timed runs while the numbers 'on paper' on pure int 65+ confirm this.

Just a side note, it's never been proven that a higher hit% has a notable impact on your enemies dodge. Although, personal tests seem to prove you right. But those same tests show that clearing a solo lvl (except for extreme low lvl dungeons till about lvl 25, where you can kill everything with auto attack alone) is faster on a pure int (staff mage), due to its higher skill dmg output.

I can easily prove this theory too, let me know if you need more proof than just my word and I'll be more than happy to show you :)

[Griffinfan]

with a wand bracer set you will get more armor then if you are using a staff set. The wand set causes less damage then the staff but it is a fair trade for the extra armor

[Superdexme]

With the current sets I use (the lvl 66 set that came when you bought 50+ plat or all the maps) and my dex set just uses the sanguine longbow..I still wear int armor...

You lose 29 skill damage going 150 dex rest int, but you gain 40 weapon damage....I think that's a reasonable trade off

[Brave Sir Robin]

With the current sets I use (the lvl 66 set that came when you bought 50+ plat or all the maps) and my dex set just uses the sanguine longbow..I still wear int armor...

You lose 29 skill damage going 150 dex rest int, but you gain 40 weapon damage....I think that's a reasonable trade off

Could you post your skill/weapon damage stats if possible? I have a full INT mage at about this level and would like to compare. Probably my next mage will be a dexchantress. Also, let me know if these stats are with or without damage rings.

[GoodSyntax]

I have to agree with JaytB, full INT is probably the best setup overall for massive AOE damage. While it is true that you pick up additional damage using auto, that is not the primary attack method for mages. A maxed out INT mage can get 1200+ damage on a single Drain. Even assuming 300 damage on a bow that would be 4 attacks. Again assuming a 0.6 sec attack, that equates to 2.4 seconds minimum to reach the same level of single target damage. All the while, a mage should be nuking everything with Firestorm and Lightning.

Keep in mind that Lightning has one of the lowest skill cool downs in game, so with max damage on Lightning affecting 5 targets per skill, the total damage output between a single target bow and an AOE skill is staggering.

Can a full dex mage deal more damage against bosses? Maybe, if you are looking at auto-attack alone, but when you introduce skill damage into the equation and overall damage is calculated, full INT is superior.

Simply stated, the additional dodge and crit (unbuffed) has very little affect on a boss. Once buffed, DEX or INT mages would be at 100 crit anyway, so every hit is a crit. Shoot, even my Pally gets 100 crit when buffed.

Personally, I prefer a more pally-like build. My poor mage is Yeti fodder as it is in Humania, so the additional HP, HP Regen and Armor helps. In the end, it all is driven by your play style. If you like to charge in with a tank and initiate first contact, you almost have to go Pally. If you prefer staying behind DEX and INT are good builds.

Either way, if you like you build, ignore what everyone says and keep being awesome.

[Superdexme]

I have to agree with JaytB, full INT is probably the best setup overall for massive AOE damage. While it is true that you pick up additional damage using auto, that is not the primary attack method for mages. A maxed out INT mage can get 1200+ damage on a single Drain. Even assuming 300 damage on a bow that would be 4 attacks. Again assuming a 0.6 sec attack, that equates to 2.4 seconds minimum to reach the same level of single target damage. All the while, a mage should be nuking everything with Firestorm and Lightning.

Keep in mind that Lightning has one of the lowest skill cool downs in game, so with max damage on Lightning affecting 5 targets per skill, the total damage output between a single target bow and an AOE skill is staggering.

Can a full dex mage deal more damage against bosses? Maybe, if you are looking at auto-attack alone, but when you introduce skill damage into the equation and overall damage is calculated, full INT is superior.

Simply stated, the additional dodge and crit (unbuffed) has very little affect on a boss. Once buffed, DEX or INT mages would be at 100 crit anyway, so every hit is a crit. Shoot, even my Pally gets 100 crit when buffed.

Personally, I prefer a more pally-like build. My poor mage is Yeti fodder as it is in Humania, so the additional HP, HP Regen and Armor helps. In the end, it all is driven by your play style. If you like to charge in with a tank and initiate first contact, you almost have to go Pally. If you prefer staying behind DEX and INT are good builds.

Either way, if you like you build, ignore what everyone says and keep being awesome.

Keeping in mind that using a bow, (150 dex rest int while wearing int gear) you only lose 29 skill damage...so as we'll as 40 more auto attack damage I will still hit 1000+ drain damage.... And with crit you can hit 600 damage per auto hit

[GoodSyntax]

I thought you were talking about a full DEX mage (as in all DEX, no INT).

A full DEX is losing way more than 29 in skill damage.

If you are talking about 150 DEX then, that is a more mainstream build than what I thought you were talking about.

Keep in mind that a full INT staff mage hits 600+ crit on auto easily. Probably closer to 800 crit.

Either way, if you enjoy the build, don't change it. I've seen a bunch of nerdy-birdies and int bears, so unusual builds are just plain fun and, in some cases, more challenging.

As a matter of fact, I am running a level 34 DEX/INT bear just for yuks (and yes, it is yuk).

[Brave Sir Robin]

Yes. What is also very interesting is that he uses mage armor and helm with a bow. Also, DEX enables him to equip a +10 dmg +2 crit ring.

On the other hand, how does this compare with a full INT mage with forgotten staff? His int/dex build does not allow him to equip a forgotten bow to counter this deadly weapon. Ofc, he could choose a Humanian bow...

In general, I like these experimentations, try them myself plenty of times. That's why I asked him to post his skill damage / damage stats as it would be interesting to compare. I hope this is not too much trouble.

[Ruby!!!]

My ocd kicked in and I wanted to get rid of 4 plat for an even number so I used them for respec to get some numbers. No vanity, ring or face stats, just for wearing sand godess wand set:

Pure int w/ godess wand set
118 hit - 59 crit - 15 dodge - 27 hr - 34 mr - 256-301 dmg - 239 armor - 366-528 light - 169-335 heal - 415-592 drain

67 dex w/ godess wand set
122 hit - 60 crit - 16 dodge - 27 hr - 33 mr - 261-306 dmg - 241 armor - 364-513 light - 158-313 heal - 411-574 drain
compared w/ pure:
4 hit - 1 crit - 1 dodge - 0 hr - 1 mr - 5-5 dmg - 2 armor - 2 - 15 light - 11-22 heal - 4-18 drain

160 dex w/ godess wand set
128 hit - 61 crit - 17 dodge - 27 hr - 31 mr - 268-312 dmg - 243 armor - 361-493 light - 143-281 heal - 404-549 drain
compared w/ pure:
10 hit - 2 crit - 2 dodge - 0 hr - 3 mr - 12-11 dmg - 4 armor - 5-35 light - 26-54 heal - 11 - 43 drain

Tried with other gear as well but then it's not really comparable ofc

[Zeus]

Double posting boss BUT.
At high levels whether your dex or int you've got 100 crit as is. So thats out of the question. Like I just stated the 4 extra dodge, probably not going to be much of a factor. As for the hit percent I see where your coming from but dodge doesn't rely on hit % otherwise anyone with over 100% hit would never NOT hit. And birds would more than likely be the most dominate class.

There is a quote from Cinco stating that the higher your hit percent, greater the chance of breaking through dodge, or something along that lines, I'm just too lazy to pull it up.

Think about it, War, there's a reason why a bird's roots land so often on a bear with 80+ dodge at end game. :D

[JaytB]

My ocd kicked in and I wanted to get rid of 4 plat for an even number so I used them for respec to get some numbers. No vanity, ring or face stats, just for wearing sand godess wand set:

Pure int w/ godess wand set
118 hit - 59 crit - 15 dodge - 27 hr - 34 mr - 256-301 dmg - 239 armor - 366-528 light - 169-335 heal - 415-592 drain

67 dex w/ godess wand set
122 hit - 60 crit - 16 dodge - 27 hr - 33 mr - 261-306 dmg - 241 armor - 364-513 light - 158-313 heal - 411-574 drain
compared w/ pure:
4 hit - 1 crit - 1 dodge - 0 hr - 1 mr - 5-5 dmg - 2 armor - 2 - 15 light - 11-22 heal - 4-18 drain

160 dex w/ godess wand set
128 hit - 61 crit - 17 dodge - 27 hr - 31 mr - 268-312 dmg - 243 armor - 361-493 light - 143-281 heal - 404-549 drain
compared w/ pure:
10 hit - 2 crit - 2 dodge - 0 hr - 3 mr - 12-11 dmg - 4 armor - 5-35 light - 26-54 heal - 11 - 43 drain

Tried with other gear as well but then it's not really comparable ofc

Just wanted to add that you'll loose an additional 101 INT (3x 33 INT from gear pieces + 2 INT set bonus) when comparing staff mage (with non-elite staff) vs bow mage. That's an additional 20-30 dmg (rough estimation) difference in max dmg depending on what spell you're looking at.

If we'd want correct numbers we should also take into account how much a bow adds to skill dmg as compared to a staff. If I remember correctly there wasn't a huge difference between a staff and a bow in therms of skill dmg added though. If that assumption is correct, we're looking at a potential max dmg decrease of about 70+ dmg for a DEX/INT mage as compared to a pure INT, depending on the spell (not taking crit into account).


Edit: edited in minor correction about dmg calculation

[Ruby!!!]

Just wanted to add that you'll loose an additional 101 INT (3x 33 INT from gear pieces + 2 INT set bonus) when comparing staff mage (with non-elite staff) vs bow mage. That's an additional 20-30 dmg (rough estimation) difference in max dmg depending on what spell you're looking at.

If we'd want correct numbers we should also take into account how much a bow adds to skill dmg as compared to a staff. If I remember correctly there wasn't a huge difference between a staff and a bow in therms of skill dmg added though. If that assumption is correct, we're looking at a potential max dmg decrease of about 70+ dmg for a DEX/INT mage as compared to a pure INT, depending on the spell (not taking crit into account).


Edit: edited in minor correction about dmg calculation

Pure int w/ godess staff set
116 hit - 52 crit - 9 dodge - 21 hr - 27 mr - 328-363 dmg - 154 armor - 404-561 light - 164-325 heal - 453-623 drain

Didn't have a skipper set at hand, anyone post stats?

[WarTornBird]

Double posting boss BUT.
At high levels whether your dex or int you've got 100 crit as is. So thats out of the question. Like I just stated the 4 extra dodge, probably not going to be much of a factor. As for the hit percent I see where your coming from but dodge doesn't rely on hit % otherwise anyone with over 100% hit would never NOT hit. And birds would more than likely be the most dominate class.

There is a quote from Cinco stating that the higher your hit percent, greater the chance of breaking through dodge, or something along that lines, I'm just too lazy to pull it up.

Think about it, War, there's a reason why a bird's roots land so often on a bear with 80+ dodge at end game. :D

Then why the heck can't I kill a bear in like 4 shots -_-. My roots never hit at all. Not even against mages with 40 dodge. Oh well, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. I just don't see the logic in this game anymore:confused:

[Brave Sir Robin]

Didn't have a skipper set at hand, anyone post stats?

Thanks a lot Ruby :)
Let me organise all this now...

http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/Sfaliaras/statsintdex.png

I see that the 67 Dex build is a good alternative. It gives you the opportunity to equip a dex armor ring (2% dodge, 8 armor) for extra protection if necessary.

Also:

- When trying with 67 Dex did you equip the damage ring?

- What I would like to see is what happens with int helm, int armor + a bow (which is what the OP suggests). Right now I only have the Beach Bum's Bow of Tiki, I can give it to you if you want. Stats are almost the same with the Phantom Crossbone and we don't care about set bonus for this getup anyway.

[Ruby!!!]

That looks way better neatly organised :) Thank you!

I didn't have any ring equipped when I checked the stats.

As for the 67 dex build I was thinking the same. But then the dodge int ring gives you 2% dodge and 4 armor - so the dex one just gives you an extra 4 armor and that isn't worth the decrease in skill damage imo.

Next time I am on I will borrow a skipper set and check stats with set and also only with bow and int gear. For fun I already tried angel dex set which lead to really bad numbers. ;)

[Superdexme]

My ocd kicked in and I wanted to get rid of 4 plat for an even number so I used them for respec to get some numbers. No vanity, ring or face stats, just for wearing sand godess wand set:

Pure int w/ godess wand set
118 hit - 59 crit - 15 dodge - 27 hr - 34 mr - 256-301 dmg - 239 armor - 366-528 light - 169-335 heal - 415-592 drain

67 dex w/ godess wand set
122 hit - 60 crit - 16 dodge - 27 hr - 33 mr - 261-306 dmg - 241 armor - 364-513 light - 158-313 heal - 411-574 drain
compared w/ pure:
4 hit - 1 crit - 1 dodge - 0 hr - 1 mr - 5-5 dmg - 2 armor - 2 - 15 light - 11-22 heal - 4-18 drain

160 dex w/ godess wand set
128 hit - 61 crit - 17 dodge - 27 hr - 31 mr - 268-312 dmg - 243 armor - 361-493 light - 143-281 heal - 404-549 drain
compared w/ pure:
10 hit - 2 crit - 2 dodge - 0 hr - 3 mr - 12-11 dmg - 4 armor - 5-35 light - 26-54 heal - 11 - 43 drain

Tried with other gear as well but then it's not really comparable ofc


The whole point of adding dex is to use bows....I understand the loss in skill damage, but it's not completely lost. That damage goes to your auto damage and your dps.... My point is your skill damage is lower but your auto damage is greater so your using that damage in between skills. It's not lost forever haha

[Swords]

Dex Mage is for offense power even though a Mage has low hp, it has its ups and downs

[Brave Sir Robin]

Update: Ruby got the stats for mage armor + helm and Beach Bum Bow of Tiki (thanks a lot :)). So now we can compare.

http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t518/Sfaliaras/statsintdex2.png

Personally I would prefer a staff mage as a damage dealer for PVE anytime. However, Superdexme's build is worth a try. As Good Syntax stated,


Either way, if you like you build, ignore what everyone says and keep being awesome.

:)

[GoodSyntax]

It kind of skews the numbers a bit because of the set bonus, but I am actually surprised to see how well the full INT wand set did in relation to the Staff. The bow also fared better than I had expected. I had hoped that the staff would have given you a better premium on skills than what Ruby's chart was detailing.

I'm kinda wishing that I didn't commit to the Sea Devil staff set and gone goddess wand instead.

Glad I refreshed this post. I already blew 4 plat on respecs trying to compile the same numbers.

And just for reference, here is my Pally build and the numbers associated (all with Sea Devil set, no rings or vanities equipped):

STR: 173
DEX: 2
INT: 180

Hit: 99
Crit: 54
Dodge: 13
HP: 486
H/s: 23
Mana: 752
M/s: 24
Damage: 319-354
DPS: 336
Armor: 163

Lightning: 377-500
Firestorm: 389-495
Drain: 419-554
Heal: 135-265


So, it looks like my Pally stacks up fairly well against a Dexchantress, better across the board except for hit, though I would gladly trade the +30% skill damage for the +50% armor that the wand set provides. <<Sigh>> T) Sea Devil Staff for Goddess Wand and Bracer.

[Walkhardd]

More int=more skill dmg.

Is there really a debate? O.o

[Brave Sir Robin]

More int=more skill dmg.

Is there really a debate? O.o

No doubt. The point of the discussion was "how much more? how significant is this amount? can a dex mage have any advantage over an int mage?"

Since without proof we could argue for a month without reaching any conclusion :), some of us decided to do some experiments/measurements. Maybe you could share your experiences from PvP, do you see any dexies? And are they any good?

[Walkhardd]

More int=more skill dmg.

Is there really a debate? O.o

No doubt. The point of the discussion was "how much more? how significant is this amount? can a dex mage have any advantage over an int mage?"

Since without proof we could argue for a month without reaching any conclusion :), some of us decided to do some experiments/measurements. Maybe you could share your experiences from PvP, do you see any dexies? And are they any good?

If a dexmage says go, I drain, and say gf.

Dex mages suck in pvp 65+

I'd like to add that its unfortunate, because dex mages are fun to play. I think pure int has too much armor and crit.

[Brave Sir Robin]

If a dexmage says go, I drain, and say gf.

LOL!

[Zeus]

Then why the heck can't I kill a bear in like 4 shots -_-. My roots never hit at all. Not even against mages with 40 dodge. Oh well, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. I just don't see the logic in this game anymore:confused:

Blind, then root root. :)

[dryselvage]

how bout at lower levels (under lvl65)?

is it better to make pure int too? or "67dex int rest" better for lower levels?

and whats the best ring to use for pure int then?