Talk about mt fang dragon vanities: stats, rings

[LwMark]

Well as a fellow forumer pointed out that we can wear a dragon vanity + elite rings, makin our stats extra good.
Then some people said are dragon stats goin to be removed.
Then Sam said they might do to dragons like they did to elites , because vanities shouldnt have stats. Vanity is vanity.

Well heres where i think it will get messy.

If u do to dragons like elites, an have a place turn in to get a say "red dragon ring" .

Well couldnt i just take my red set an pass it around to my friends an be like yo here get a free ring?

Because dragons are tradeable, elite vanities are not so i just dont see how this would work....

[Mage till the end]

You have successfully confused me

[Jcyee]

meh... good point. this is kinda looking bad...

[Lowlyspy]

Take stats away (leave sparkles i guess), bring in high level rings in the plat store to almost balance the elite rings. I will say elite rings should be slightly stronger than anything you can buy, because you had to work for them.

[Deathofan]

Its a bad idea but its kinda like a solution. Either stay with it for its vanity purpose or give the set to fallen prince for the stat'd ring. That way people wnt go on passing the sets around like text messages :p "here go on, pass it!"

[LwMark]

Ye but sam said hes not sure if they will because he knows it would hurt the players an the economy. Atleast for now it wont change, maybe down line, i just think its crazy they made a big thing about adding drags in mt fang, an u got to buy 200-500++++ plat to get stats an stuff, an to think the countless hours of farmers, to get somethin u were misles to get, atleast elite vanities u still get the bonus and the vanity still, no harm done, i just dont know what they will do with these cause they are tradeable

[Lowlyspy]

As much as i hate to say it, a drop rate nerf to make them more available seems like a potential option to me.

[LwMark]

As much as i hate to say it, a drop rate nerf to make them more available seems like a potential option to me.
Ye they gave everyone another oppurtunity to get them, this will also keep peopleing coming to mt fang, honestly what do we go to mt fang for ? To farm an sell? 10k drops, nty. I rather go chat with friends.

Ohh u meant makem more available? Na i think how they are right now are fine or even raise a lil. Reason i think they are fine how they are is this, ill give a example

In 3,4 days i got 2 drops, hate got 1 ,hard got 3, hood got 3, now thats only 4 people in 3 days or less with only a LIL BIT of runs, i think how it nows is fine. You got to farm to get rare atuff ahouldnt make it easy especially adding stats, they dont make elites easy

[drgrimmy]

As much as i hate to say it, a drop rate nerf to make them more available seems like a potential option to me.

Then everyone will be wearing dragon. Defeats the purpose of removing stats from the elite vanities to
allow more diversity in the appearances of players. Unfortunately no good solution.... :(

Or perhaps, get rid of fang dragon vanities completely, give dragon owners fair market value in gold
for their items, and refund plat to anyone who has purchased dragon pets...

[LwMark]

STS please dont make these like another multi colored hooch hat :p

[LwMark]

[QUOTE=Lowlyspy;818259]

Or perhaps, get rid of fang dragon vanities completely, give dragon owners fair market value in gold
for their items, and refund plat to anyone who has purchased dragon pets...

Ok i want back ,hmm, 67m? Sounds legit
I dont think that would be good solution either :/

[thecrankybearsam]

dragon vanities have stats? where have i been..

[LwMark]

dragon vanities have stats? where have i been..
You play PL right?

;) ye red,blue,green,an gold do

[Lowlyspy]

Ohh u meant makem more available? Na i think how they are right now are fine or even raise a lil. Reason i think they are fine how they are is this, ill give a example

In 3,4 days i got 2 drops, hate got 1 ,hard got 3, hood got 3, now thats only 4 people in 3 days or less with only a LIL BIT of runs, i think how it nows is fine. You got to farm to get rare atuff ahouldnt make it easy especially adding stats, they dont make elites easy
Meant it's a valid option they could take, didn't say it's an option i would choose.

[Suentous PO]

So what if they make it so the fang dragon stats simply do not stack with the new ring? You get what's better.

[lilweezy]

hey mark i tried sending you a pm but it says your inbox is full

[LwMark]

Or we could just keep it how it is an let them stack an give players more strive to farm dragon pieces, maybe add more dragon sets, with wideee variety of colors, for example those 3 "free" pets we got ,make sets for those, if sts hasnt already( i think they have) , this would help sts make more money (people buyin elexiers and dragon pets)

@ Weezy ima delete some just for u

@ lowlyspy ok gotcha an thanks for puttin input on this subject

[Lowlyspy]

Sets for the new dragons wouldn't work, unless they were made tradeable. They would just be new elite vanities.

[LwMark]

Sets for the new dragons wouldn't work, unless they were made tradeable. They would just be new elite vanities.

yup ik they should make them tradeable, there is a tradeable spot in cs for pets, and honestly i have 2 black sets, one str which i use and a dex i bought to sell after cap, and well the dex is goin to b kinda of pointless say if everyone who was 71 bought sets and dont need anymore, new players would not even consider buying them because they wouldnt have a pet to give it bonus

so ye they need to make em tradeable..and u shall receive PURPLE PET

[Cobraguy]

They'll probably just make them into a plat pack. why make a tradeable set that can be made vanity if you can't get a pet to match it?
That's my theory anyway.

[dudetus]

I am myself a bit confused by what is going to happen and what do I think about Dragon Vanities.

As Dragon sets are droppable for ANYONE above lvl 65 I do thnk it is "fair" that it has stats. There are no buts with this one. Either u take ur time and farm those darn Vanities or u don't bother. It is not like with the Elite vanities which u can't receive but once in a new campaign. U can farm for dragon vanities 24/7 if u wish to. Everyone has the chance to do it.

But Black Dragon set is going to be interesting. It is said that it can be transformed into a vanity and it already has it's matching dragon. Will there be stats for this vanity set? If so, we r caught with the same dilemma as we were with the Elite sets. Only lvl 71s could farm Black Dragon stuff and u could get Smoky only via lvl 71 quest. But we do not know if u can get Black Dragon armor + helm in Blacksmoke (at least I haven't paid attention) and if the new dragons will be available. Heck, it could be a possibility that we would have new Dragon Armor sets as we have more dragons.

It is so hard to predict what will happen since there are so many available options. What STS decides to do it will have a huge impact to players and/or PL economy.

IMO Dragon Vanities should keep their stats BUT whatever STS decides to do, Dragon Vanities should always be items which u could farm aka available for anyone.

[LwMark]

I am myself a bit confused by what is going to happen and what do I think about Dragon Vanities.

As Dragon sets are droppable for ANYONE above lvl 65 I do thnk it is "fair" that it has stats. There are no buts with this one. Either u take ur time and farm those darn Vanities or u don't bother. It is not like with the Elite vanities which u can't receive but once in a new campaign. U can farm for dragon vanities 24/7 if u wish to. Everyone has the chance to do it.

But Black Dragon set is going to be interesting. It is said that it can be transformed into a vanity and it already has it's matching dragon. Will there be stats for this vanity set? If so, we r caught with the same dilemma as we were with the Elite sets. Only lvl 71s could farm Black Dragon stuff and u could get Smoky only via lvl 71 quest. But we do not know if u can get Black Dragon armor + helm in Blacksmoke (at least I haven't paid attention) and if the new dragons will be available. Heck, it could be a possibility that we would have new Dragon Armor sets as we have more dragons.

It is so hard to predict what will happen since there are so many available options. What STS decides to do it will have a huge impact to players and/or PL economy.

IMO Dragon Vanities should keep their stats BUT whatever STS decides to do, Dragon Vanities should always be items which u could farm aka available for anyone.

60+ plus can get drops. requirement is l60.
YEP they should just keepem with stats! its not hard to get a dragon from my last post till this one a red dragon helm dropped for squirrel. ATM drag drop are right where they need to be easy but hard, u just got to put a lil work, shii u dont even need to buy plat i got both mine with blessing an wearin bigger luck an one didnt even reroll. so yes just keepemthe way they are an if u care so much bout stats then go farm or buy a set ,right?

[LwMark]

Something will likely have to give with the Dragon sets too.


I doubt we'd just rip the set bonus off the dragon sets. That seems rather rash and disrespectful to our players and the game's economy. But, finding something like what we've done with the elite vanities is probably a course to look at. I don't have the task of doing that, so I can't really say what, when or if it would take shape. Just saying that ideally, something would change so that there are not significant stats tied to vanities.


The "that op get-to-the-cap-in-4-days shield" isn't really OP. It's just a fun, weird item. :) When I get a chance to set up the black dragon vanity turn-ins, I'll probably make one for this too. But, for now, I made it stat'd and made it contribute to all the two-handed (defensive) itemset bonuses. You'll already be getting the Eye of Eternity vanity offhand, so I figured it would more fun to get a stat'd offhand for the bonus elite level cap item...if you're TOTALLY LOCO AND PLAY LIKE CRAZY THIS WEEKEND!!!! :onthego:


You had the very best when it was the very best. Just the same when I ground out my Epic Weapon in EverQuest. It was the best of the best and very hard to get at the time. If I went back to EQ now, I don't think it would be - but my little Gnome would have mad bragging rights with my staff of the serpent, but that's about it. Or in WoW, when I was one of the first Paladin's on my server to get The Unstoppable Force. It was a grind, but so satisfying to have at the time. Now, it's just something to take up bank space.

I know that we can do more to honor our long time players, but at the same time it is important to keep a somewhat level playing field so that newcomers don't feel they can't ever possibly compete. Hopefully you can see a bit of our side and we can acknowledge your side as a valid complaint. Thanks for your feedback and thanks in advance for your understanding.


You can still only ever equip 1 ring at a time. So yeah, you can get both rings. I guess if you like the sparklies of one over the other - go for it :D I think most would wear the ring with the better stats.

these are just some quotes i wanted to post

[dudetus]

60+ plus can get drops. requirement is l60.
YEP they should just keepem with stats! its not hard to get a dragon from my last post till this one a red dragon helm dropped for squirrel. ATM drag drop are right where they need to be easy but hard, u just got to put a lil work, shii u dont even need to buy plat i got both mine with blessing an wearin bigger luck an one didnt even reroll. so yes just keepemthe way they are an if u care so much bout stats then go farm or buy a set ,right?

Yep, I am a dragon noob :p. And yeah exactly.

[LwMark]

Yep, I am a dragon noob :p. And yeah exactly.

friend just pointed out that maybe they should make pvp, bonus free...

let me quote him

"i dont see anything wrong with extra stats in pve
pvp is the problem cause most of the old players wana smash noobs!"

ok that wasnt exactly what he said but thats what he said lol

[JaytB]

STS stated that the want:
A. To make sure not everyone looks the same
B. To level the playing field for new players

A. Now, every (rich) PvP'er will be wearing dragon vanities because it's the only way to increase stats (rings will be worthless with the new elite ring). So basically, everyone will still look the same.

B. I don't see how a relatively new player can afford a 15m+ dragon set. And farming one is nowhere near as easy as it is posted here, speaking from personal experience (maybe me and most of my friends' luck sucks?). So, how is this leveling the playing field for new players? It's only leveling the playing field if you're either super lucky or rich.

If STS really wants to do as it says, dragon vanity items should get their stats removed.

Since this would possibly create (another) uproar, alternatively they could make them into some sort of components, to craft your existing elite ring into a new ring with slightly better stats. This would at least take care of problem A.

At least, that's my opinion about it.

[chukie]

totally agree on post :/

[dudetus]

STS stated that the want:
A. To make sure not everyone looks the same
B. To level the playing field for new players

A. Now, every (rich) PvP'er will be wearing dragon vanities because it's the only way to increase stats (rings will be worthless with the new elite ring). So basically, everyone will still look the same.

B. I don't see how a relatively new player can afford a 15m+ dragon set. And farming one is nowhere near as easy as it is posted here, speaking from personal experience (maybe me and most of my friends' luck sucks?). So, how is this leveling the playing field for new players? It's only leveling the playing field if you're either super lucky or rich.

If STS really wants to do as it says, dragon vanity items should get their stats removed.

Since this would possibly create (another) uproar, alternatively they could make them into some sort of components, to craft your existing elite ring into a new ring with slightly better stats. This would at least take care of problem A.

At least, that's my opinion about it.

If STS decides to remove Dragon Set's bonuses, it'll ruin PL economy. Dragon items will lose their value from +15m to like 5m. Dragon items are wanted because of the stats, not because of fancy looks.

Sure STS could do this and our assumptions don't mean a squat in the end but I feel that STS doesn't want to piss hundreds of end game players (which r the major plat spenders in PL) by taking bonuses off from Dragon items.

[modalex]

This stuff is pretty cool!

[JaytB]

If STS decides to remove Dragon Set's bonuses, it'll ruin PL economy. Dragon items will lose their value from +15m to like 5m. Dragon items are wanted because of the stats, not because of fancy looks.

Sure STS could do this and our assumptions don't mean a squat in the end but I feel that STS doesn't want to piss hundreds of end game players (which r the major plat spenders in PL) by taking bonuses off from Dragon items.

They recently made changes to drop rates making prices of 56 glyph go from 15m+ to 2m-, artisan/expert from bout 1m to 100k.

If dragon becoming cheaper would ruin the economy, wouldn't these recent changes already have ruined the economy?

[LwMark]

They recently made changes to drop rates making prices of 56 glyph go from 15m+ to 2m-, artisan/expert from bout 1m to 100k.

If dragon becoming cheaper would ruin the economy, wouldn't these recent changes already have ruined the economy?

Dragons really are easier to farm now..
ive seen drop 6 drop in 3 days, 2 to me , just my own runs, definitly 100+ runs maybe..

heres a question how much are vanities in SL and DL?? i dont play those games but whats the value?

[JaytB]

Dragons really are easier to farm now..
ive seen drop 6 drop in 3 days, 2 to me , just my own runs, definitly 100+ runs maybe..

heres a question how much are vanities in SL and DL?? i dont play those games but whats the value?

Well, some people have all the luck I guess. Dragon farming is just about the only thing I did recently, and still haven't even seen a drop in about 50+ runs.

And no clue about prices of SL/DL vanities.

[connerlee12]

Yo bro gimme a red ring xDDDD

[Pakax]

I usually do not rant much but this is one.


I have lost a 'substantial' (understatement) amount of PL money on 56, recipees and dragons. If STS remove stats from Drags, I will lose even more. So I am seriously starting to be annoyed with changes to old stuff. Nobody can make informed decisions about anything in the game anymore, that is true about Merching and that is true when choosing to buy gear to equip for PVE and PVP. The reason I find this very annoying is because I spent real life cash on elixirs to help with the grinding and the farming. Nobody was forcing me (I know that so don't go trolling please) but at the end of the day, I spent that RL cash knowing what I was buying and what I was aiming for. Imagine you spent cash to help buy of a nice 6L Porsche, and 6 months down the line the manufacturer forces a recall to swap the engine with a Ford Fiesta 1.2L on, yes, my point: annoying. With those changes, everything is becoming relative and I am not liking that one bit.

So I understand the rationale for making changes and levelling the playing field for newer players, but I'd rather see that done through adding new stuff rather than changing historical stuff. Once again, I am not against the ring system, I actually think this is a cool idea, but Please STS, bring back some long term certainty in the game.

[Pakax]

Well, some people have all the luck I guess. Dragon farming is just about the only thing I did recently, and still haven't even seen a drop in about 50+ runs.

And no clue about prices of SL/DL vanities.

Hey Jay,

I've done thousands of runs, prob around 3k by now. I only dropped one red armor. I saw a guy dropped the full blue set in less than an hour and this morning, two guildies dropped dragon and I know they didnt do that many runs. It's just random really, i.e. just about being persistant and lucky :-). Good news is, when we are 76, it will be easier to run in fang :-))

[JaytB]

Hey Jay,

I've done thousands of runs, prob around 3k by now. I only dropped one red armor. I saw a guy dropped the full blue set in less than an hour and this morning, two guildies dropped dragon and I know they didnt do that many runs. It's just random really, i.e. just about being persistant and lucky :-). Good news is, when we are 76, it will be easier to run in fang :-))

This confirms what I said a couple of posts back. For new players without some decent luck, they'd be miles away from getting any dragon drops. This makes the 'leveling of the playing field for new players' as STS intended, fairly invalid imo.

But yeah, I didn't really expect a drop in so few runs. I just wanted to make clear they're not dropping as much for everyone as some posts in this thread suggested :)

[LwMark]

This confirms what I said a couple of posts back. For new players without some decent luck, they'd be miles away from getting any dragon drops. This makes the 'leveling of the playing field for new players' as STS intended, fairly invalid imo.

But yeah, I didn't really expect a drop in so few runs. I just wanted to make clear they're not dropping as much for everyone as some posts in this thread suggested :)

its all luck, they do drop....

[Pakax]

well, statistically speaking, a Lvl60 new player has the same chances as any higher level old player to drop dragon. So to that extent, the ability to drop dragon is not correlated to the length of time someone has been playing PL but rather to the amount of time someone is willing to farm for dragon (and potentially to the amount of RL money someone is willing to spend on luck elixs). Drags are trully legendary drops, ie very rare, but the dragon concept actually does not go against the 'leveling of the playing field' argument IMO. But I agree with you on the fact that they do not drop like crazies.


This confirms what I said a couple of posts back. For new players without some decent luck, they'd be miles away from getting any dragon drops. This makes the 'leveling of the playing field for new players' as STS intended, fairly invalid imo.

But yeah, I didn't really expect a drop in so few runs. I just wanted to make clear they're not dropping as much for everyone as some posts in this thread suggested :)

[Griffinfan]

Why not lower the level cap to like 25 or 35 O.O
or make a maximum cap of 71 so everyone cant use the sets in 76 pvp but it would change 60-71 pvp

My two cents

[Noodleleg]

Oh... I have a good idea... No more set bonuses at all :)? So, builds would be as they used to be?

[Suentous PO]

I likes the collection of relevant quotes Lw,
Here's one ppl forget when speculating on the black sets "having stats"
This is from TE ( emphasis hers)
" I'm not down with adding anymore vanity sets with stat bonuses. It's VERY unlikely that IF we add a quest to turn black dragons into vanities That they would include set bonus stats"

[TANKKAAR]

All they have to do is make it so dragon isn't stack-able with ring of glory... Nuff said!

That's how it is already! Nobody loses, nobody gets OP .... DONE!

Glad i could help, next topic!

[Suentous PO]

All they have to do is make it so dragon isn't stack-able with ring of glory... Nuff said!

That's how it is already! Nobody loses, nobody gets OP .... DONE!

Glad i could help, next topic!

Your problem here is youre being logical. I tried that exact thing a few posts back greeted with cricketchirps.

[LwMark]

I likes the collection of relevant quotes Lw,
Here's one ppl forget when speculating on the black sets "having stats"
This is from TE ( emphasis hers)
" I'm not down with adding anymore vanity sets with stat bonuses. It's VERY unlikely that IF we add a quest to turn black dragons into vanities That they would include set bonus stats"

Gold,red,green,blue

[wammm]

They can't just simply remove stats on dragons, cause the moment they were released , Sam said it'll be PERMANENTLY added to game and ppl with them will totatly look thier dragons as craps. Second thing, i spend buk$$$ just to get the gold pet for the GOLD set , so if they choose to remove the stats, its like rippin off my own money.

:apthy:

[StompArtist]

They can't just simply remove stats on dragons, cause the moment they were released , Sam said it'll be PERMANENTLY added to game and ppl with them will totatly look thier dragons as craps. Second thing, i spend buk$$$ just to get the gold pet for the GOLD set , so if they choose to remove the stats, its like rippin off my own money.

:apthy:

Permanently means it wont be removed not that it will not be changed. ;)

[Suentous PO]

Gold,red,green,blue

How does this relate to the BLACK SET I am speaking of?

[Wrath]

"Your problem here is youre being logical. "

What a very illogical thing to say lol

[Rare]

yup ik they should make them tradeable, there is a tradeable spot in cs for pets, and honestly i have 2 black sets, one str which i use and a dex i bought to sell after cap, and well the dex is goin to b kinda of pointless say if everyone who was 71 bought sets and dont need anymore, new players would not even consider buying them because they wouldnt have a pet to give it bonus

so ye they need to make em tradeable..and u shall receive PURPLE PET

Black sets don't get a bonus do they?

[LwMark]

Gold,red,green,blue

How does this relate to the BLACK SET I am speaking of?
Ik but was talkin bout those, we know black wont have sets bonus stats

[Suentous PO]

No, they don't and prolly never will.

Ed- at least one forumer is saying they will in town , so I'm getting that straight and hoping he comes on this thread to say they will have stats.

[LwMark]

No, they don't and prolly never will.

Ed- at least one forumer is saying they will in town , so I'm getting that straight and hoping he comes on this thread to say they will have stats.
Lol who

[Suentous PO]

Noperly. The funny part is when I correct him he says stuff like -
If you don't believe me ask lwmark.
It's part of his-
Sell me your red set cuz it will be worthless tomorrow- sales pitch

[Cobraguy]

Personally I don't pvp much so stats aren't too big of a deal to me. I got my blue set because I like the way it looks. If the stats are removed, it will go down in value a lot, which isn't very cool, but I guess I'll deal with it and keep playing and wearing it. The only thing that bothers me about the value of it and the stats is spending 200 plat on a pet to get those stats. If they were taken I would hope some kind of partial refund of that plat would be given, and the prices of the pets be reduced. I don't care about my pixel money but when someone starts screwing around in my wallet, that's when I get irritated.

[playersgonnaplay]

All they have to do is make it so dragon isn't stack-able with ring of glory... Nuff said!

That's how it is already! Nobody loses, nobody gets OP .... DONE!

Glad i could help, next topic!

Ikr best idea yet. am i the only one that read this?! O.o

[Suentous PO]

Ikr best idea yet. am i the only one that read this?! O.o

No. But I think I'm the only one who read post 15. :D

[Zeus]

Permanently means it wont be removed not that it will not be changed. ;)

Pretty sure when you pay for a product, then it's changed to something that you didn't pay for, by the manufacturer, it's considered illegal.

[Matutd]

Pretty sure when you pay for a product, then it's changed to something that you didn't pay for, by the manufacturer, it's considered illegal.
But, in ToS everything in game belongs to STS, therefore making it legal for them to do what they want with it

[Zeus]

But, in ToS everything in game belongs to STS, therefore making it legal for them to do what they want with it

Does that apply when it's breaking a federal law? I mean, they could change their software to become a program that gets into people's bank accounts, but if they put it in the TOS, it doesn't make it legal?

I'm not trying to start anything here, but pretty sure federal law overrides contracts.

Also, I'm not exactly I'm my territory, so a major in government would be much appreciated right now.


Either way, I'll still be buying platinum.

Note: personally, I'm for the changes, supporting them, but that doesn't mean everyone is. There are people who PAID for these products that ARE NOT okay with it.

Other MMOs get away with it because they have a SUBSCRIPTION service. Players are paying for a specific product, but content. In PL, we pay for specific products.

[Matutd]

Does that apply when it's breaking a federal law? I mean, they could change their software to become a program that gets into people's bank accounts, but if they put it in the TOS, it doesn't make it legal?

I'm not trying to start anything here, but pretty sure federal law overrides contracts.

Also, I'm not exactly I'm my territory, so a major in government would be much appreciated right now.


Either way, I'll still be buying platinum.

Note: personally, I'm for the changes, supporting them, but that doesn't mean everyone is. There are people who PAID for these products that ARE NOT okay with it.
But the point is, the items belong to STS. What can federal law do? "You changed your own items, that's a fine for you". To be fair I don't really care what happend with dragon sets, but I don't see any way that could prevent STS making these changes, except for moral reasons.

[StompArtist]

Federal law would prevent unauthorized access to bank account and an argument that it was added to TOS or unclear would easilly be overturned in court. Changing the rules of a video game wou.d not fall under fraud. Come on

[Zeus]

Federal law would prevent unauthorized access to bank account and an argument that it was added to TOS or unclear would easilly be overturned in court. Changing the rules of a video game wou.d not fall under fraud. Come on

It was an example, lol.

@Mat, there we go, that's what I'm trying to say: morals. People feel jipped. Personally, vanity sets, I don't care about, still got the ring, but ticked off about them making all my other rings useless. Perhaps there's a way to combine them?

As for the dragon, if they do change it, I would like a refund on all of the dragon packs I've purchased, as they were there for that reason.

[Energizeric]

I think this is mostly an economic issue, not a stat issue. So many players, including myself, have spent months saving gold, farming items, merching, etc, and have then spent our entire fortunes on a single dragon set. My dragon set is probably about 75-80% of the total value of everything I have in game. So whatever they do, the value of the dragon items must be preserved or else it will wreak havoc on the PL economy. Perhaps I am bias because I'm a merchant, but my favorite part of the game is the economics of it all. Buying, selling, trading items, farming for rare items to sell and make a profit, etc. I would most likely lose interest if STS made a change which caused me to lose everything I worked for during the last 6 months.

So in order for dragon items to keep their value, here are some possible solutions:

1) leave everything as is -- but STS wants to remove stats from vanities so that people don't all look the same and wear the same gear....I suppose this is a reasonable goal....perhaps there is another solution...

2) have a "dragon crafter" who crafts a complete pink legendary dragon set into statless vanity dragon set (blue vanity items like the hooch hat), but in the process gives you a "dragon ring" with equivalent stats. A requirement to craft the dragon ring would be that you must also have the matching pet. And then of course, the dragon ring would be tradeable/sellable.

The problem with this approach would be that you can only wear one ring. So end gamers would obviously wear their elite vanity ring, and thus the dragon ring would not be popular and would lose its value. The only way this would work would be to make the dragon ring have higher stats than the elite vanity ring. But then of course the old timers would rage over this. So this approach would not work.

3) Use the approach #2, but make their be a way that you can wear both the dragon ring and the elite vanity ring. Perhaps make a "vanity ring" slot in your inventory. I think this approach would work best. It would allow the pink dragon items to retain their value prior to be used to craft. And once they are crafted, they will turn blue into regular non-crafted vanity items, which can still be sold. And of course the dragon ring would be a vanity ring which could also be sold. I'm guessing the dragon rings would be worth millions, and the non-stated (already crafted) blue dragon vanity items would probably be worth a few hundred thousand gold each, kind of like other vanities like the rabbit ears, etc.

Anyone agree that #3 is the way to go here??

[playersgonnaplay]

I think this is mostly an economic issue, not a stat issue. So many players, including myself, have spent months saving gold, farming items, merching, etc, and have then spent our entire fortunes on a single dragon set. My dragon set is probably about 75-80% of the total value of everything I have in game. So whatever they do, the value of the dragon items must be preserved or else it will wreak havoc on the PL economy. Perhaps I am bias because I'm a merchant, but my favorite part of the game is the economics of it all. Buying, selling, trading items, farming for rare items to sell and make a profit, etc. I would most likely lose interest if STS made a change which caused me to lose everything I worked for during the last 6 months.

So in order for dragon items to keep their value, here are some possible solutions:

1) leave everything as is -- but STS wants to remove stats from vanities so that people don't all look the same and wear the same gear....I suppose this is a reasonable goal....perhaps there is another solution...

2) have a "dragon crafter" who crafts a complete pink legendary dragon set into statless vanity dragon set (blue vanity items like the hooch hat), but in the process gives you a "dragon ring" with equivalent stats. A requirement to craft the dragon ring would be that you must also have the matching pet. And then of course, the dragon ring would be tradeable/sellable.

The problem with this approach would be that you can only wear one ring. So end gamers would obviously wear their elite vanity ring, and thus the dragon ring would not be popular and would lose its value. The only way this would work would be to make the dragon ring have higher stats than the elite vanity ring. But then of course the old timers would rage over this. So this approach would not work.

3) Use the approach #2, but make their be a way that you can wear both the dragon ring and the elite vanity ring. Perhaps make a "vanity ring" slot in your inventory. I think this approach would work best. It would allow the pink dragon items to retain their value prior to be used to craft. And once they are crafted, they will turn blue into regular non-crafted vanity items, which can still be sold. And of course the dragon ring would be a vanity ring which could also be sold. I'm guessing the dragon rings would be worth millions, and the non-stated (already crafted) blue dragon vanity items would probably be worth a few hundred thousand gold each, kind of like other vanities like the rabbit ears, etc.

Anyone agree that #3 is the way to go here??

Or just make dragon not stackable with elite rings... That way like last cap players pick what they want to wear. Either dragon for dps/dmg or elite for armor/dodge bonus. Most logical solution... Dragon still has its value bc it still has stats and old timers still hav their bonus. Eliminating dragon/elite stacking. Pick and choose what to use!

[Energizeric]

Or just make dragon not stackable with elite rings... That way like last cap players pick what they want to wear. Either dragon for dps/dmg or elite for armor/dodge bonus. Most logical solution... Dragon still has its value bc it still has stats and old timers still hav their bonus. Eliminating dragon/elite stacking. Pick and choose what to use!

Just about everyone would chose the elite rings, and dragon items would lose considerable value. The only way dragon items retain their value is if the elite end-gamers still want it, and that means they would be able to wear it alongside their elite ring.

[LwMark]

There is absolutely no point in havin a dragon ring, if its worst stay then a elite ring, maybe would b cool to combine, but i doubt sts would make a whole new section for a couple rings,
Maybe just maybe, u can take your plat pet and your dragon vanities and go craft them into a crazy NEW LOOKING dragon, so if u wear pet u get extra stats, people talk about oh i wish pets can do damage, well then there u go?

[ljirish]

I really feel it is best to leave things as they are, dragon vanities are how they should be. They are available to everyone willing to put in the time to farm, and pay all the plat to get one plus the dragon pets. Making it easy for a new player to get to 60-76, and then automatically be able to have a level playing field sounds fine on paper... (If I were socialist or a hippie) but shouldn't they work for it? What is truly gained by doing something like this? I know I've spent a LOT of hours (and plat) farming for them just so that I'd have that extra bonus for pve AND pvp.

It reminds me of a history lesson with the Roman empire... *very briefly* they took these coins, which held a certain value, and then debased the currency to supply a demand. The coins basically no longer had any value, but once held a lot of value. This is what started the fall of Rome, it set them up for the Byzantines to walk through and take over.

I'm a firm believer that those who have been here since the beginning should have a slight advantage, followed by those who've also put in serious amounts of time. What's there to strive for if you nerf it all and make us all the same. If you go and make everyone the same, remove challenges (They really need to make it slightly harder to get the dragon vanities), and get rid of any super special extras, you are just inviting disaster. Long-term, people will get bored far quicker... give us all something to strive for.

... hmmm, or refund my plat!

Anyway, there's my $.02

Irish

[BlacknWild]

So.. Make Dragon sets into rings?.. H'm.. I'm sure those with Dragon sets wouldn't be happy.. Including myself.. Paid a lot for my sets.. Way above cs prices.. If this is for the less fortunate.. Too bad. like not getting items after lvl cap. I say leave well enough alone. I'm sure there are plenty players who dreamed of getting a Dragon set.. Which wasn't available to all.. Rare drop. Now I see more & more players rocking Dragon.. Grats its finally cs prices. And to just do away with them is going to upset many. Don't realize vanitys don't have stats now.. Kinda late eh.. Omnipotent crowns give armor.. Heck, all crowns give armor. I say the pl community should vote.. Only Dragon owners though.. Don't need the less fortunate hating lol!

[Energizeric]

Definition of voting: when 2 wolves and a sheep vote on what to have for dinner. Another name for this idea: mob rule. Yes, those without dragon (the majority) will vote to nerf them.

[vampinoy]

Yep, agree on not making the bonus stat from dragon vanities stack with any ring.

PS: LOL at first world problems :D

[LwMark]

Black your right alot vanities give stats got to take those away now. They shouldbjust leavem, people who dont wana put work to farm complaining, drags drop so easyyy now, craziness

[Jsaieagle]

If any of you think it's unfair, go farm the dragon sets at Mount Fang or buy the set from CS! Everyone got the chance!

This is not a North Korean game, no socialism!

[TANKKAAR]

Just about everyone would chose the elite rings, and dragon items would lose considerable value. The only way dragon items retain their value is if the elite end-gamers still want it, and that means they would be able to wear it alongside their elite ring.


There is absolutely no point in havin a dragon ring, if its worst stay then a elite ring, maybe would b cool to combine, but i doubt sts would make a whole new section for a couple rings,
Maybe just maybe, u can take your plat pet and your dragon vanities and go craft them into a crazy NEW LOOKING dragon, so if u wear pet u get extra stats, people talk about oh i wish pets can do damage, well then there u go?

These arguements and so many others like them are invalid!

The dragon sets have never been stackable with the elite bonuses and you all knew that when you purchased them so saying otherwise is ridiculous to put it bluntly. As is saying dragon sets will "lose value" if made into or given a ring (to take up the ring slit) as prices for dragon setsa are actually lower now then they ever were when they weren't stackable. Just because they have been made "better" in a way does NOT mean that if turned back into what they used to be would effect there value.

[playaxl]

Yeah i bought dragon sets hoping for mitas..then they did the dragon quest and now ive got more dragons than hairs on my head!!id APPRECIATE a refund so i can better spend the plat on elixirs..but hey ..this will go on deaf ears..lol grr

[plovr]

These drops are permanent additions to the game.

To remove them would be a blatant contradiction to the quote above. Removing their bonuses would also be deceptive considering that quote immediately followed the listing of stats.

A lot of folks have invested heavily based on that fact. Doing an about face and intentionally misleading players after collecting their payments would erode confidence in STS and that would be unfortunate. It would also be unethical, but this sounds more like a business decision, not a moral dilemma.

I understand that legacy players resting on their laurels don't generate a lot of revenue, so I'm actually ok with retiring things that were never intended to be permanent. Going forward it would be better to advertise them as such.

But the dragon vanities were not introduced that way, and it would be best not to backpedal. There's probably no urgency in doing so either. They're accessible to everyone (unlike COP/SOH/MFA/MH) and their stat bonuses will become gradually less significant as players attain higher levels.

[Energizeric]

These arguements and so many others like them are invalid!

The dragon sets have never been stackable with the elite bonuses and you all knew that when you purchased them so saying otherwise is ridiculous to put it bluntly. As is saying dragon sets will "lose value" if made into or given a ring (to take up the ring slit) as prices for dragon setsa are actually lower now then they ever were when they weren't stackable. Just because they have been made "better" in a way does NOT mean that if turned back into what they used to be would effect there value.

Very true, BUT....the elite bonuses were originally only available to older players who capped back at older levels. Newer players like myself never had any elite bonus, so demand for dragon sets was high among players like me. But now with the new elite rings, they are available to everyone old and new, so very few elite players who could actually afford a dragon set would actually want to use one. Instead, elite players would have an elite vanity ring, and the only ones who would want a dragon set would be those who are not elite players and do not have millions of gold, and thus they would fall in value bigtime.

[TANKKAAR]

Very true, BUT....the elite bonuses were originally only available to older players who capped back at older levels. Newer players like myself never had any elite bonus, so demand for dragon sets was high among players like me. But now with the new elite rings, they are available to everyone old and new, so very few elite players who could actually afford a dragon set would actually want to use one. Instead, elite players would have an elite vanity ring, and the only ones who would want a dragon set would be those who are not elite players and do not have millions of gold, and thus they would fall in value bigtime.

Yes but you ask speaking as if everyone is "poof" just going to have a elite bonus... Fact is if they didnt have one before they still need to wait one or two cap increases. Which in terms of PL market and economy gives "elite players" who currently own dragon to sell, buy, sell and buy multiple times over the course of the next year all but eliminating the true chances for any loss . I wouldn't call that devastating or harmful in anyway to any economy, Would you?

[Energizeric]

Yes but you ask speaking as if everyone is "poof" just going to have a elite bonus... Fact is if they didnt have one before they still need to wait one or two cap increases. Which in terms of PL market and economy gives "elite players" who currently own dragon to sell, buy, sell and buy multiple times over the course of the next year all but eliminating the true chances for any loss . I wouldn't call that devastating or harmful in anyway to any economy, Would you?

There number of players playing this game over the years keeps growing. With the new ring vanity, I would guess there are 4 or 5 times as many players who can now get a bonus ring than there were players who had at least 2 of the first 3 elite vanities. That's because there are tons of players whose first elite vanity was the mount fang armor or the monarch helm. My first was the monarch helm, and now I got the lvl76 elite vanity and got my 2-vanity ring. In my guild there are 5 of us who have dragon sets (our master has all 4 vanity dragon sets), and all of us now have elite rings, none of us had elite vanity bonus before.

Those whose first elite vanity was the mount fang armor now can have a 3-vanity ring. None of us had any bonus before. I know tons of players who have dragon sets, and very few of them (maybe 10%) had 2 or more of the original 3 elite vanities. If your suggestion is implemented, all of these players would at once want to sell their dragon sets, and that would cause a price crash.

Furthermore, I don't know a single player who has a dragon set but does not at least have the monarch helm (and will soon have the lvl76 vanity and be able to get the 2 vanity ring). This is because players who don't have the monarch helm haven't been playing very long and there is no way they can even afford a dragon set. The result of implementing a system whereby the only players who want dragon sets are those who have little money will result in prices dropping so that those players who want them will be able to buy them. I'd guess your suggestion would result in dragon sets going for 1-2m.

[Suentous PO]

The value of fang sets is the stat bonus. There's no good way to take away the stats without depreciating them. There would need to have a value for us, how so without stats?
Alternatives could include something like;
Access to a new map with exclusive items that may range from 60ish up (like how forgotten could be diff levels). dragon vanities would work like the monarch helm fist did.
Or, the stated pieces might be exchanged for a new vanity similar to the new faces few/no stats but exclusive. ppl have offered to buy my hardlite and zombie face because they are no longer available.
I don't know how much plat I spent for those stats, but I spent almost a goldcap for a red helm, take my stats and I should get something really sweet in exchange.
Making any sort of vanity ring with stats would be the same problem in sts eyes (assumption).

[vampinoy]

Vanities should just be vanities...not sure why people are so concerned with depreciation, it's not the first time an item depreciated in the game. If the price of having "true vanity" in the game is the depreciation of "one", so be it. As long as there is the dragon set bonus, everyone will still shoot for that set, and soon everyone will be wearing them and in effect, the dragon sets only replaced the linearity and monotony of elite cap vanities (no customization, everyone still looks the same). The removal of elite cap vanities will be useless if the dragon set bonus will not be removed or changed somehow.

PS: If they don't change/remove the bonus stats from dragon vanities, I'll give it 'till next expansion before you see everyone walking around with a dragon set...so where's customization there? If I remember correctly, their intention for removing the elite cap vanity bonus is to give way for customization, and that will never happen until there's one item set with a bonus stat. Might as well bring back the elite cap vanity bonus if they cannot execute their plan 100%. :D

PSS: The old vets were able to let go of their bonuses of elite cap vanities even after all their hardwork and money spent, nobody's crying about it now? So now, the ball is on everyone else, let go of the bonus stats of the dragon vanities to give way for true vanities? It's the same banana :D

[Elyseon]

at least theres different colors ;D

[Suentous PO]

@ Vamp- I'm not really concerned with depreciation, but that is what will cause the most complaining I'm guessing. The near inevitable multiple threads along the lines " I lost my money/plat/stat. I was cheated blablabla" is what my suggestions were trying to mitigate.

[Elyseon]

@ Vamp- I'm not really concerned with depreciation, but that is what will cause the most complaining I'm guessing. The near inevitable multiple threads along the lines " I lost my money/plat/stat. I was cheated blablabla" is what my suggestions were trying to mitigate.
we know how sts likes complaints, such as certain humorous guild names ;D

[Cobraguy]

at least theres different colors ;D

Yup, how does everyone look the same in 4 different colors?


Regardless of a change, I and many others I'm sure, will still wear the Dragon sets because they look awesome, not because of a little bonus to damage and armor. If looking different was such a big deal, those stats mean nothing in town, so why does everyone with a set wear them there when there is plenty of other gear that looks awesome?

[vampinoy]

Honestly, I don't give a kitten about this issue :D I'm actually amused how backwards the community is on this one, and it gives me giggles reading how people defend their backward opinions. People are reduced to rationalizing to serve their self serving purpose when in fact this is the basic of the basics in online games - that vanity items are for cosmetic purposes only that's why they're called vanity items (kaboom! :stupid:). It's only in PL that this is not clear (based on my experience). There may be games out there with vanity items that has stats but they are super (duper) minimal...like the ones with +1 armor in PL. The lack of foresight is over 9000 :P Very well, later Dragonborns (Fus Ro Dah!!!).

[LwMark]

Honestly, I don't give a kitten about this issue :D I'm just a lurker anyway. I'm actually amused how backwards the community is on this one, and it gives me giggles reading how people defend their backward opinions. People are reduced to rationalizing to serve their self serving purpose when in fact this is the basic of the basics in online games - that vanity items are for cosmetic purposes only that's why they're called vanity items (kaboom! :stupid:). It's only in PL that this is not clear (based on my experience). There may be games out there with vanity items that has stats but they are super (duper) minimal...like the ones with +1 armor in PL. The lack of foresight is over 9000 :P Very well, later Dragonborns (Fus Ro Dah!!!).
curious, do u own a drag set?

[vampinoy]

curious, do u own a drag set?

Converted every valuable/tradeable item I have into gold before I filed for an indenfinite leave of absence :D IIRC, one of those items include a blue dragon set... saw the dragon items in CS recently...giggles.

[Cobraguy]

Converted every valuable/tradeable item I have into gold before I filed for an indenfinite leave of absence :D IIRC, one of those items include a blue dragon set... saw the dragon items in CS recently...giggles.

Good riddance....

[vampinoy]

Good riddance....

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not gone...:P I'll stick around just to make me feel good playing WoW and Guildwars 2...XD

For instance, this thread/issue...LMAO :D

[Suentous PO]

I filed for an indenfinite leave of absence
Lol