Elixirs - The Controversy

[dudetus]

Most threads regarding to Elite cap have turned into a debate between "purists" and "elixes" to determine which way to play is the right way to play this game. Fusionstrike summed up the situation quite well:



People keep bemoaning the 4 day cap thing and suggesting ways to "fix" the problem. But the problem is actually that there is no problem. There is only a difference of philosophy. And this is not something that can be fixed. It's like proposing that all of humanity get together to agree on the "right" religion to believe in.

Camp 1: gameplay purists
This group believes the game should encourage and reward skill exclusively. Anything that makes a player better/faster/stronger other than pure repetition and practice destroys the game. You can recognize them because they say things like "that's not an achievement" and "it used to be better before x was added and ruined everything". They are also typically outraged about new powerful items added to the game that are obtained in any way other than how they got their uber-gear because they represent an unacceptable shortcut.

Camp 2: you get what you pay for
This group sees nothing wrong with players paying real money to simplify the game. They feel that someone has to pay for the game to exist, and it might as well be those who can afford it so others can still play for free. You can recognize them because they say things like "they can play how they want, it doesn't hurt you" and "nobody's forcing you to play that way". They point out that most of the game is free, and for it to stay that way someone has to fund it. They grant that those with the means to buy content will have some kind of advantage in items/time to goal but are ok with that. They accept that not all content will be free and that some content/event you may want will cost you.

Each side has people who believe passionately that their view is the right one and misses no opportunity to bring it up. The rest fall somewhere on the continuum between the two camps and can't believe how much energy the hold-outs invest in arguing their point of view.

This is how it's always been and ever will be, lo until the end of time.

It is IMHO amazing how this same game loving people are so in war by such a small thing.

Elixirs are a matter of perspective. Some want to use elixirs to fasten up the lvling and to get the nice loot easy. Some want to play the game without elixirs to get the full game experience.

The Elite Egg reward for capping in 4 days was the straw that broke the camel's back. There have been debates since the Nuri cap but the debates have turned into rage wars between usually 2 sides, the purists and the elixes. Both sides have been certain about their way to play the game, disregarding the other side's arguments. The elixes and purists I am going to describe are stereotypes. There are several variations of both sides, but the most flat-out and stereotype characters are described below.


The points that the elixes are missing are usually the game experience. They rush to the new cap asap and farm the new sets asap to earn themselves money and the new gear. Elixir parties are a mayhem. All just kill blindly by the insane damage bonuses the elixirs give. Teamplay experience is completely missing at most times. It's all about the exp, or the loot. Usually the storyline is disregarded and the only thing that matters are the exp and the loot.

And the points that the purists fail to recognize are that the elixes fund this game. STS is a business. They give us content to get themselves money. It's not a charity work. Elixes are required for this game to keep it running.


It's pointless to argue with this matter. Both sides have good arguments. Elixirs ruin the actual game by the lack of actual teamplay and lack of personal skill. This can be seen best as "Scatterbears" at high levels in increasing numbers. Not to mention missing the storyline. But on the other hand, elixes fund this game so others can play this game for free. There could still be the plat purchasable maps which used to be. Elixirs offer us all an option. We can use them to make us stronger, faster, get exp easier, yada yada. Or we can play this game for free, enjoying the game experience in it's fullest, learning to play as a team effectively and gaining personal skill.


But in the end, GAMES ARE ALL ABOUT FUN. We play Pocket Legends because we want to have a good time. Some view fun as exploring and questing the game with no worries of tomorrow and lvling comes by as it comes. Some want to get all the possible equipment, cap asap and to be gazillionaires. It's nothing wrong with having fun the way a person wants. But both sides should respect other's way to play this game as it is only a matter of personal preferences how u want to play this game. STS has allowed us to play for free, or we can play in a "hardcore" way. It's amazing how STS has allowed us to choose by looking at other MMOs. We are all fortunate to choose the way we want to play.

So, have fun at this game the way u want and let's not worry about as insignificant things as elixirs, shall we?

[Ruby!!!]

I wonder if there was a similar discussion when they introduced health pots. ;)

[Yich]

This is very interesting. A good way to look at things. What happens when the plat purchasing purists quit due to PL overdosing on elixirs? It happens often. Another thing to keep in mind, elixirs give an advantage over non elixirs, but if the non elixes quit, what then? A dark villain once said "when everyone is super, no one will be." I think that fits. What will elixirs have the advantage over when all the "purists" quit? Nothing. If they have no advantage then they will probably quit and find a new game.

So i agree, both people that spend money on PL and people that dont both have to coexist for the game to work right. I think PL would be a better game and I might actually be tempted to do endgame if elixirs werent STS' cashcrop. Just my 2 cents.

[mike1298]

The only reason I use elixers is mainly for the luck bonus. Pinks are so rare compared to purples. I rarely see pink drops that aren't rerolls. If there was a vanity that gave me higher reroll, say 50%, I would gladly dish out 500 plat or more. I will stay on elixers until that day.

[Elyseon]

This is very interesting. A good way to look at things. What happens when the plat purchasing purists quit due to PL overdosing on elixirs? It happens often. Another thing to keep in mind, elixirs give an advantage over non elixirs, but if the non elixes quit, what then? A dark villain once said "when everyone is super, no one will be." I think that fits. What will elixirs have the advantage over when all the "purists" quit? Nothing. If they have no advantage then they will probably quit and find a new game.

So i agree, both people that spend money on PL and people that dont both have to coexist for the game to work right. I think PL would be a better game and I might actually be tempted to do endgame if elixirs werent STS' cashcrop. Just my 2 cents.

i agree, i have supported PL plenty, i almost always run with elixirs
i wish it would require skill as it used to...
now even running unelixed, you will almost always find a party member elixed and youre stuck trying to keep up with them
i would gladly pay as much as i currently do to lose the plat advantages, they arent really necessary, i understand sts favoring spenders in this way, but imo it wasnt worth sacrificing the balanced gameplay, sadly i paid into this before this system took over, and feel that after spending as much as i have i cannot simply switch over to WoW or O&C, which if i was just chosing an mmo today, i would choose either of them first

[Suntv]

An elixer is a cheat. It's allowed, but nonetheless a cheat.

[StompArtist]

The real problem with elixirs is that players using them affect negatively the game experience of those not using them. Basically 2-3 toons on trashers, indirectly force the remainder of the group to leech off...

That's what turned me away from PL. I got better things to do than follow players around a map and, yes, I know I can start my own games and lock them. That's not the point.

[Zapoke]

An elixer is a cheat. It's allowed, but nonetheless a cheat.

Verb
Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".

Does it fit? Hmm..

[StompArtist]

Verb
Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".

Does it fit? Hmm..

Not a cheat it is a feature in the game. A cheat would be using some means of gaining the advantage outside of the framework STS has provided us with.

[Kraze]

I wonder if there was a similar discussion when they introduced health pots. ;)

Health pots were always there

[Superduper]

I always buy plat just before update. I like to grind to the new cap, then enjoy it. I dont want to have to slowly gain experience. Once the plat that I buy is out, I dont buy anymore until next update is ready.

[dudetus]

This is very interesting. A good way to look at things. What happens when the plat purchasing purists quit due to PL overdosing on elixirs? It happens often. Another thing to keep in mind, elixirs give an advantage over non elixirs, but if the non elixes quit, what then? A dark villain once said "when everyone is super, no one will be." I think that fits. What will elixirs have the advantage over when all the "purists" quit? Nothing. If they have no advantage then they will probably quit and find a new game.

So i agree, both people that spend money on PL and people that dont both have to coexist for the game to work right. I think PL would be a better game and I might actually be tempted to do endgame if elixirs werent STS' cashcrop. Just my 2 cents.

I agree with this. I do not enjoy being all pumped up on elixirs but I didn't have enough time to get to lvl 76 before monday to get that egg which I wanted. The only problem with elixirs taken away is that where on earth would STS find another as plat consuming activity as elixirs are?



The real problem with elixirs is that players using them affect negatively the game experience of those not using them. Basically 2-3 toons on trashers, indirectly force the remainder of the group to leech off...

That's what turned me away from PL. I got better things to do than follow players around a map and, yes, I know I can start my own games and lock them. That's not the point.

I understand this. It's hard to be unelixered in a group as the others are. The only solution would be teaming up with persons who do not elixir (as an example Robbie) and run the maps with them. PUGs are nowadays more elixes than purists in end-game.

[wvhills]

I agree with this. I do not enjoy being all pumped up on elixirs but I didn't have enough time to get to lvl 76 before monday to get that egg which I wanted. The only problem with elixirs taken away is that where on earth would STS find another as plat consuming activity as elixirs are?




I understand this. It's hard to be unelixered in a group as the others are. The only solution would be teaming up with persons who do not elixir (as an example Robbie) and run the maps with them. PUGs are nowadays more elixes than purists in end-game.

it sounds good in theory and could have worked with humania mobs and bosses but there's no way a group of non elixired players can run blacksmoke. They may make it through the mobs (but it would be really slow going) but wouldn't be able to beat any of the bosses (or the more powerful emma for that matter). Even the relatively easy 3 dragon boss would eventually overwhelm a group totally without elixirs. They wouldn't be able to defeat the dragons fast enough and would soon be battling all 3 at once.

I considered myself a purist but that way of thinking/playing is antiquated. The best someone without plat can hope for now is to leech with the group, get drops, gather the few kills they can steal and enjoy as much as the can and pray the mages don't get tired of reviving you.

Imo, there is no controversy. Elixirs are an essential part of the game now. In the past they were marketed as a way to help speed things along (level up faster, get pinks faster, etc). Development decisions were made to increase their use such as having items scale to ur level so u have to purchase double the elixirs, once to level then again to farm end game gear; having humania be so spread out to increase the run times; making the best weapons available in either plat only dungeons or in maps available to only "elite" players; and the ridiculoulsy high xp requirements to gain a level. But blacksmoke is different. In blacksmoke you HAVE to use them just to simply survive.

[StompArtist]

The best someone without plat can hope for now is to leech with the group, get drops, gather the few kills they can steal and enjoy as much as the can.

Yup. Second class player / spectator.

[dudetus]

it sounds good in theory and could have worked with humania mobs and bosses but there's no way a group of non elixired players could run blacksmoke. They may make it through the mobs (but it would be really slow going) but wouldn't be able to beat any of the bosses (or the more powerful emma for that matter). Even the relatively easy 3 dragon boss would eventually overwhelm a group totally without elixirs. They wouldn't be able to defeat the dragons fast enough and would soon be battling all 3 at once.

I considered myself a purist but that way of thinking/playing is antiquated. The best someone without plat can hope for now is to leech with the group, get drops, gather the few kills they can steal and enjoy as much as the can.

I think that the problem at this moment is that enemies are too hard since most players are not yet at high lvls.

[wvhills]

I think that the problem at this moment is that enemies are too hard since most players are not yet at high lvls.

I added some to my post, btw. haha.

I disagree dudetus. I've looked at the end game gear and while it increases in damage the defensively abilities are reduced. For dex, the armor stays about the same while dodge takes a heavy reduction. You may be able to kill mobs faster and thus suffer less deaths but I don't see how it will eliminate the 1 hit KO's from the shadow mob things with glowing hands or the bosses. I haven't seen many non elixired 75 users with level 75 plat gear so I can't really say for sure tho.

[deviousdemon]

all im asking for... bring back a speed elix only..!!!!

running maps on "normal" speed without any steroids feels like reverse parking..!!!

this might b also a solution to follow a trasher party !?

[Fusionstrike]

I think the point you're getting at is a specific case of a larger trend. That is, as elixir use has grown, the game has more and more been designed with the elixir user in mind. The bosses in BSM prove the point: there's very little chance of beating Koal or red dragon without performance boosts from elixirs. (Before all you braggers jump in and regale us with tales of how you soloed these bosses with no elixir, naked with your eyes closed, don't bother. You're uber-leet! I'm talking about mere mortal players here.)

Starting with Humania, the instance of getting one-shot increased enormously. I regularly see pure birds and mages get one-shot by yeti AOE, koal, etc. when not on elixir. These monsters were developed to create a challenge for elixir users. Since they have to threaten players with 3x armor boosts, they naturally destroy "normal" players like they're made out of paper. 3x is the new normal, which only serves to widen the gap between normal and elixir users. This to me is where things become broken. When elixirs are just a faster or easier way, that's one thing. When they're the only way, that means the content is inaccessible, practically speaking, without spending money. There is no free game left. And that breaks what has otherwise been a workable (if not perfect) balance.

So what I think needs to happen is that the devs take a hard look at the baseline they design to. They must tune the difficulty to a normal, unbuffed team with normal gear and stats so that the content remains accessible to the "normal" player. This by necessity means it will be easy to overwhelm the PvE game with thrasher elixirs, making the game trivially easy for those spending on elixirs. However, it's the only solution that keeps the non-elixir game relevant. The alternative is to tune to the "thrasher" baseline, which arguably both Humania and BSM are (to a greater or lesser degree), and shut out the normal players. If you tilt things that way too far or leave them that way too long, you'll lose the "normal" player base irreparably as they move on to other pastimes.

Right now, STS has a model where they can incentivize plat spending for specific events (e.g. the 4-day cap), which some will still dislike but at least is temporary. If they continue designing areas/bosses/main content that can only be enjoyed by buying in, either directly or indirectly, then they've lost the "free main spine" design that has worked well thus far. And that to me is the real issue they need to do some hard thinking on.

[Victorhm]

I think the point you're getting at is a specific case of a larger trend. That is, as elixir use has grown, the game has more and more been designed with the elixir user in mind. The bosses in BSM prove the point: there's very little chance of beating Koal or red dragon without performance boosts from elixirs. (Before all you braggers jump in and regale us with tales of how you soloed these bosses with no elixir, naked with your eyes closed, don't bother. You're uber-leet! I'm talking about mere mortal players here.)

Starting with Humania, the instance of getting one-shot increased enormously. I regularly see pure birds and mages get one-shot by yeti AOE, koal, etc. when not on elixir. These monsters were developed to create a challenge for elixir users. Since they have to threaten players with 3x armor boosts, they naturally destroy "normal" players like they're made out of paper. 3x is the new normal, which only serves to widen the gap between normal and elixir users. This to me is where things become broken. When elixirs are just a faster or easier way, that's one thing. When they're the only way, that means the content is inaccessible, practically speaking, without spending money. There is no free game left. And that breaks what has otherwise been a workable (if not perfect) balance.

So what I think needs to happen is that the devs take a hard look at the baseline they design to. They must tune the difficulty to a normal, unbuffed team with normal gear and stats so that the content remains accessible to the "normal" player. This by necessity means it will be easy to overwhelm the PvE game with thrasher elixirs, making the game trivially easy for those spending on elixirs. However, it's the only solution that keeps the non-elixir game relevant. The alternative is to tune to the "thrasher" baseline, which arguably both Humania and BSM are (to a greater or lesser degree), and shut out the normal players. If you tilt things that way too far or leave them that way too long, you'll lose the "normal" player base irreparably as they move on to other pastimes.

Right now, STS has a model where they can incentivize plat spending for specific events (e.g. the 4-day cap), which some will still dislike but at least is temporary. If they continue designing areas/bosses/main content that can only be enjoyed by buying in, either directly or indirectly, then they've lost the "free main spine" design that has worked well thus far. And that to me is the real issue they need to do some hard thinking on.

Perfectly said

[Ephesius]

8400xp is a little much it took without elxir on the weekend 9 hours to level to 70 before the cap I was so happy. Now I give up lvling, only daily elixir and if I get a 3x combo I”ll level with that. The dragons arent the problem its the XP to level really discouraging to us who cant buy elix js

[wvhills]

8400xp is a little much it took without elxir on the weekend 9 hours to level to 70 before the cap I was so happy. Now I give up lvling, only daily elixir and if I get a 3x combo I”ll level with that. The dragons arent the problem its the XP to level really discouraging to us who cant buy elix js

it's 8400 from 71-72. 10,000 from 72-73 and 14,000 from 74-75.

[dudetus]

it's 8400 from 71-72. 10,000 from 72-73 and 14,000 from 74-75.

And 100,000 from 75-76.

Just in case our master PvPer Eph the Ruthless doesn't know :)

[Haowesie]

I've been in several pugs now where we've beaten Koal, with a mixture of pot and non-potted players. The comments straight after are usually "wow". Satisfaction is really good... But after five or six iterations of people leaving, waiting for people who will stick and try their "luck"...

I hope someone does find out what the strategy is, because dying multiple times is not fun. Waiting in game for players is wasting time and money, and that's not fun either.