convince me for a warrior

[Arterra]

I know it's a tanker class and the preferred for bosses and such, but i just dont like warriors. i have capped mage since i love magic and im making a archer since i'm looking for all that dodge and crit.

BUT i cannot seem to stick to a warrior. highest gone is lv9... i really want to make one later but need motivation and advice :confused:

[Royce]

Everything will change when you learn beckon. It's one of the most fun skills in the game, if not the most fun of all. Warriors are also fun because they can be nearly invincible in PvE while buffed. There is plenty of good warrior advice in this forum, but let us know if you have any specific questions. And hey, if you really get bored with your warrior you can always respec and give bowbear a try ;)

[kavanah]

Everything will change when you learn beckon. It's one of the most fun skills in the game, if not the most fun of all. Warriors are also fun because they can be nearly invincible in PvE while buffed. There is plenty of good warrior advice in this forum, but let us know if you have any specific questions. And hey, if you really get bored with your warrior you can always respec and give bowbear a try ;)

I can solo things people wish they could solo. Is that motivating enough?


Edit: As soon as the Elite 45 dungeons come out... you best believe bears are going to be much needed for tanking again!

[Raxie]

they are the best characters to farm.

[Bentmer]

I can solo things people wish they could solo. Is that motivating enough?


Edit: As soon as the Elite 45 dungeons come out... you best believe bears are going to be much needed for tanking again!

I think it cuts both ways though. You might need a tank but that also means those bear only runs will probably need a healer too. My problem with tanking in this game is that bears have very few skills to acquire aggro and maintain it. And since targeting is pretty hard anyways, I don't see how they could make a dungeon so hard that you would need a conventional mmo balanced group.

[kavanah]

I think it cuts both ways though. You might need a tank but that also means those bear only runs will probably need a healer too. My problem with tanking in this game is that bears have very few skills to acquire aggro and maintain it. And since targeting is pretty hard anyways, I don't see how they could make a dungeon so hard that you would need a conventional mmo balanced group.

Honestly, I don't mean to attack your skills and mmo experience, but once we have challenging enough content, bears will have to pull, establish aggro, AND then have the rest of the team gun it down. No more everyone run in and start whacking whatever target they want. Already in the lvl 35 elite dungeon a group of 45s can get wiped from a noob running ahead of the tank. It really irritates me that so many people have no mmo experience and they have gotten away with rushing things without having any group coordination and now we see true noob colors shine. I'm all about teaching people how to play, but I get even more irritated when I say "STAY HERE ILL PULL" and some darn enchanteress is going to run in to Frost King, and pull all the stupid things on top of us. /vent off

My point is this... bears, if played right, can hold aggro just fine. It just takes a smart bear and smart teamates. The end.

[Bentmer]

Honestly, I don't mean to attack your skills and mmo experience, but once we have challenging enough content, bears will have to pull, establish aggro, AND then have the rest of the team gun it down. No more everyone run in and start whacking whatever target they want. Already in the lvl 35 elite dungeon a group of 45s can get wiped from a noob running ahead of the tank. It really irritates me that so many people have no mmo experience and they have gotten away with rushing things without having any group coordination and now we see true noob colors shine. I'm all about teaching people how to play, but I get even more irritated when I say "STAY HERE ILL PULL" and some darn enchanteress is going to run in to Frost King, and pull all the stupid things on top of us. /vent off

My point is this... bears, if played right, can hold aggro just fine. It just takes a smart bear and smart teamates. The end.

Uhh ok. I'm not sure if it's your posting style, but you sound rather belligerent for reasons unknown to me. I never said it was impossible to do. I merely stated there are several problems currently that make tanking in this game difficult. Since you didn't even address those concerns, let me restate them for you and perhaps you can answer them for me.

Targetting:

This is the most obvious difficulty in a touch based game with no keyboard and a small viewing screen for alot of players.

1. There is no tab targetting available. This makes it hard to cycle through targets quickly to the one you're supposed to be attacking.

2. Target window. There is no target window currently, which means that you can't even tell which mob you're selecting except for that little dotted line. Of course if you're in range with your weapon, once you see that dotted line, it means you're already attacking it. In addition to no target window, there is also no target's target window. Since there are normally multiple mobs in a pull, which one do you target first? A tank may have to switch to multiple targets in order to hold aggro, so you may not want to choose his current target. Not only that but if you are tanking a boss with adds, you normally want to kill the adds first. Who sets the targetting then since the tank is busy with the boss?

3. Touch targetting on small screens. If you play on an iphone or ipod, your screen is pretty small. Especially when you take into account all the buttons and other user interface items that are in the screen. It's pretty hard without having something like a tab targetting function to select the correct mob when there are lots of them on the screen. Maybe you have superior dexterity, but I'm willing to guess that most people will occasionally select the wrong mob on accident in the heat of battle.

Aggro:

I don't know the exact mechanics of how aggro works in this game. I assume it functions much like most other mmo's in that there is an aggro table established when you come within range of a mob. This table is populated by players who a> damage the target b> heal other players in range of the target and c> taunt the target with a skill that places it on the aggro table.

1> Taunt seems the one aggro skill available to tanks. But to judge it's effectiveness, one needs to know how it works. How long is the duration of the taunt? How many mobs does it affect? Is there even a limit? Is it an instant skill that places you effectively on top of the aggro list? Or does it last for a few seconds, during which any damage done to the mobs affected cannot push you off the top of the aggro table? If it has a duration, when it wears off, do you stay on the top of the aggro table or does it revert back to normal again?

2> Aggro skills besides taunt. Are there other skills that bears posess to hold aggro besides taunt? With the damage dealing skills that bears posess, do they generate additional aggro besides what is generated from the damage dealt? Which skills are those and how much more aggro is done? When there is a stun applied, does that effectively wipe the aggro table? If so, then that can be considered a form of aggro control also.

3> De-taunts. Do enchantresses and archers posess any skills that will lower their aggro and allow the tank to regain or take aggro?

4> Healing aggro. How much aggro is generated through heals? Does overhealing count towards aggro? This is important because there will always be multiple mobs being pulled. If the tank is being constantly healed and there is no aggro being established on the mobs not targetted by the tank, the healer will eventually pull aggro on them. Just what that healing threshold is will help healers learn when to heal and when not to heal.

I could list a few more things but this post is long enough already lol. I don't think it's fair to say that people are noobs just because they don't understand how the mechanics of aggro and tanking work. There is not exactly a huge help guide that explains this. At least not one that I have been able to find anyways. I think you over simplify things when you say it's easy, just do what I say. There are obvious difficulties to the conventional model of grouping in a dungeon with this game because it's designed for mobile devices with no keyboards and mice. And since things are so different, I don't know if you can apply conventional MMO group tactics to this game.

Lastly, since you wanted to compare e-peens or what not, I'll oblige you. I was a main tank and raid leader for a hardcore raiding guild in WoW for the first four years it existed. I main tanked and lead raids in Lord of the Rings Online for the past 2 years. I've also played DAoC and Warhammer Online, which do not have much PvE tanking to speak of. I'm not sure why any of this is relevant to the conversation since you don't need extensive MMO experience to question how things work in this game. But there you go.

Again, I'm not questioning your ability in this game. I'm not even saying that tanking is impossible. What I said was that it's harder to do because of some limitations to this game and because it's harder to do, there is a much smaller margin for error that in other games. I don't think this game is targetting hard core MMO players, so I doubt the developers will require so much precision from them.

[Raxie]

omg, that took me a long time to read your post.:p

[kavanah]

Again, I'm not calling them noobs for not understanding aggro specifics I'm calling them noobs for not understanding aggro at all. Like "if I hit this mob before my tank has aggro, then I die" understanding of aggro.

Now here is your problem...

"My problem with tanking in this game is that bears have very few skills to acquire aggro and maintain it. And since targeting is pretty hard anyways, I don't see how they could make a dungeon so hard that you would need a conventional mmo balanced group."

Here is your solution...

"once we have challenging enough content, bears will have to pull, establish aggro, AND then have the rest of the team gun it down."

More input:

As I stated before, you need at least somewhat decent teammates even in the lvl 30 elite dungeon. Imagine when they have a 45 elite dungeon! I mean I have to tell 9 out of 10 enchantresses that their heal spell removes negative effects such as being frozen. I don't even play an enchantress and I know that! So when these hard dungeons are released you will have to have the right group makeup, which in my opinion will be 2 ursans, an avian, and 2 enchantresses. If you have 2 ursans you can then tank and offtank, and i'm sure you know what offtanking is. Have one of them as the MA main assist, and if the ursan pulling is good at it, he shouldn't have but 2-3 adds at the most. I have a very very good feeling this game is going to go from "run and gun" to "slow down and dungeon crawl". I may be very wrong, but again to summarize, ursans can tank and hold aggro if your team will slow down enough to allow you to do so.

Thanks for your input too btw, and I'm not comparing e-peens, I'm just saying it can be done if you know what you are doing and just as importantly, your team knows what they are doing. When I play with people like Dawninfinity she and I rarely ever die. Because I get aggro and she knows how to manage her aggro. The point about the hard targetting is absolutely spot on, but its a problem I'm afraid they wont be able to fix on the iphones/ipods. This game will end up catering very well to the ipad users I bet.

[vulgarstrike]

/vent off.

this is off topic, but just saying. /vent off is redundant. /vent means close vent. therefore, you are turning off the closing of the veent, therefore continuing a rant.

just a minor argument :D


bears are cool, but they lack in making the giant damage of archers or the skill rape nukes of enchantresses. they stun, pull, and slowly kill, so if you're into tanks, go bear, or ninja like the archer!

[Arterra]

wellll now im not too sure lol. I honestly did not receive good info for convincing.
1)lower damage
2)cannot even maintain aggro
3)slow
I'll think about it. until then ENCHANTRESS NIGHTMARE FTW!!1!

[kavanah]

this is off topic, but just saying. /vent off is redundant. /vent means close vent. therefore, you are turning off the closing of the veent, therefore continuing a rant.

just a minor argument :D


bears are cool, but they lack in making the giant damage of archers or the skill rape nukes of enchantresses. they stun, pull, and slowly kill, so if you're into tanks, go bear, or ninja like the archer!

Lol! I was venting, or releasing anger/aggravation, not closing a vent =)

So I was /vent offing

[BeardedBear]

I'll just answer your statements to stay on topic here. I'm typing this in rather a hurry, so excuse any typos or something I said with haste.

1) Not sure what you are talking about. My lance bear does plenty of damage. If you are referring to dmg output of skills, such as stomp, SMS, etc, you are also wrong, you just can't do them from a great distance like say a bird or enchantress, or self combo without a weapon proc. What you can do however is keep your opponent permanently stunned and throw him around like a rag doll. As far as blow for blow, they might not compete with a bird, but there HP and armor is superior always, making up for any shortcomings in that department.
2) Well I think in PvE, the enemy is concerned with what guy he can kill the fastest, AKA the glass cannons in the back. I don't think anything is wrong with this by design, as bears can taunt and stomp/beckon to control every mob.
3) I thought bird, enchantress, bear were all the same speed. I may be wrong on this one however.

I use all 3 types of characters and made 4 bears because of how much fun they are. They aren't for everyone but i would suggest trying one out. Heck, go the bow bear route if you want to have an easier time mastering the bear.

[Azrael]

make another character, level it to 45, and i will beat you on it with my warrior. Then you will make a warrior ;)

[Arterra]

hey, im just trying to sum up what i read at least the negative aspects. as soon as I get a voodo doll im going to concentrate on either my twinkbird or making... A BAER!! honestly i have collected enough pink swords to make it worth it heheh

[Arterra]

update so finally got all skills, but not sure what's best... so far i usually go in, beckon, stomp, target ranged first and use the super-mega-slash-thing to keep him still, repeat. for bosses I let ranged take aggro and then work on keeping them still.
for sure vl 5 is stomp, but otherwise its vague. i get the feeling beckon 5, and armor 5.
as for the three slashing spells? the other stuff? restore level (seems weak)? this is a skill question. either answer or show me a thread please.

also, minimal pvp. this is a farming bear.

[Royce]

Definitely max out rage (not a true tanking skill but too good to pass up), evasion, ironblood, beckon, SMS, Hellscream, and stomp. I also recommend maxing taunt. The aggro holding part of taunt is not super-effective, but it kind of works, and the skill also buffs dodge and costs zero mana to use.

[Arterra]

A-o-k thx Royce. Since I saw nothing about restore it must be due to armor and because it actually is weak. Although I can see them sooner or later nerfing out the dodge from warriors.
Jus don't make sense really. :/