To rush, or not to rush? (An exhaustive examination of the infamous concept of rushin

[MightyMicah]

Hey Spacetime! Thanks for checking out my thread!

Today I decided to address the infamous topic of "rushing," or, more importantly, what to think about it. I realize that there have been many, many threads on this topic. In fact, it seems everyday another person is posting a thread about rushing. Even I, myself, have already posted many threads on this topic in the past year or so. So why post another one?

First of all, just because something has been posted in the past doesn't mean we shouldn't keep posting on it! I suppose it's understandable if its a guide to something and can't really be done any better, but opinions are a totally different story.

Second, there are constantly (I repeat CONSTANTLY) new pvp players joining the game and learning the ways of pvp. These guys often don't know what to think about this whole issue.

Third, even the people most certain they will never rush, or they will always rush, could easily change their mind. Opinions change, people change, ideas change, concepts change, the game changes! So why are we so stuck in our ideas about rushing?

My post is going to be divided into four separate portions, "The Current Situation," "Pros and Cons of rushing," "Rights and Wrongs of Rushing" and, finally, "What are We to Make of Rushing?" I hope you find my thoughts and insight on this idea very beneficial and interesting! (Bear in mind I will not present MY personal view of rushing until the very end of the thread.) If you have the time to read it thoroughly, please do so! I'd love to read the feedback that y'all give!

[MightyMicah]

The Current Situation

When most people hear the word "rush" or "rusher" in game I'd swear an alarm goes off. While it tends to vary from level to level, you can be sure that there will always be two sides. One side will at least claim to hate rushing and will always do their best to stop rushers. The other side will rush to no end and usually see absolutely nothing wrong with it. How can these sides both think they are correct and yet have such completely different views of the game?

It's actually very simple. It depends on what games you have played previously, and what kind of game you think PL is. Let me explain. I can remember after playing some intense Halo Reach, jumping onto PL and killing everyone in sight. Then as I watched everyone spam, "Rush," and "Noob," and "What the heck?" I remembered my mistake. You see, Halo Reach is straight up intense action. There's no such thing as any kind of 1v1 battle. Many people see this as reason enough to rush in PL. Their mindset says, "Lots of games are FFA. Why should PL be any different?" The opposing side then screams, "Yes! PL is very different!" Who is correct? Many will claim that, "PL was always FFA until some new guys started introducing 1v1." Others will say, "No, PL was 1v1 first, then FFA was introduced." Who is correct? Many theories have been formed on both sides and both cases have been made quite excellently in my opinion, so how can we determine whether to rush or not? We'll get to that towards the end. First I want to take a moment to examine rushing. Why is it so appealing? Why would people even rush in the first place? That brings us to the pros and cons of rushing.

[MightyMicah]

Pros and Cons of Rushing

If anyone has ever tried rushing before they can tell you some of the pros and cons right off the bat. As for myself, I've tried hardcore rushing and hardcore 1v1 on many characters including some secret alts. Certainly I don't know everything there is to know, but I do claim to at least be familiar with both rushing and 1v1. I'll start with the pros. Bear in mind these lists aren't exhaustive. I'm sure I'll think of many more and edit them in later. I'm sure there will also be many that I don't think of, period.

Pros-
Very fast kills-And I mean VERY fast. Rushing brought me around 500 kills in an hour or so once.

Easy kills-Catching people unaware and unbuffed is the most easy killing possible.

Fun-While this is a matter of opinion, most people who have tried rushing will agree that it is quite fun indeed.

Skillfully beneficial-I'm sure many would disagree, but I believe rushing is one of the best ways to get good at pvp. Nothing is harder or more challenging than facing three opponents at once.

(Possibly edit in later)

So we've looked at a few pros of rushing. What are the cons? Allow me to go ahead and present a few.

Cons-
Bad (smaller) ratio-Let's face it. That 5-1 kdr won't last long in the heat of battle. Most rushers I've seen have around 2-1 kdr.

Many enemies-Rushing tends to attract many people who hate your guts. Don't expect any kind of happy gamers facing you as a rusher.

The boot-Let's face it. Rushers often join a game and are quickly given the boot. That can be very frustrating when trying to find good games.

Smack talking-Often you will get cussed out and/or completely degraded as a rusher. Sure you may not mind, but it's a problem nonetheless.

Less respect-Many people will respect you much less as a rusher. It's sad but true.

(Possibly edit in later)

Alright. Now we've examined both the pros and cons of rushing. You can decide based on that (and personal opinions you may have) whether you think rushing is even beneficial to you as a pvper at all.

So what exactly is the issue? Obviously some people rush and some don't, but why is there such controversy? Clearly it's because rushing effects 1v1 games. The two cannot coexist in the same game arena. But why else is there controversy? I believe it is because many people claim that rushing is just "wrong." It's almost as if these people believe that rushing is morally a wrong thing to do. I'm sure that sounds silly to many people right off the bat, however, when you think about it, I do believe you may begin to understand it a little bit more. You may not agree, but hopefully you will begin to understand this mindset. That brings us to the "Rights and Wrongs of Rushing."

[MightyMicah]

Rights and Wrongs of Rushing

The idea that rushing can be "right" or "wrong" as stated above, can seem somewhat ridiculous. Lets take a look at what this whole idea is all about. We'll start with the wrongs.

Wrongs of rushing-Why would anyone consider rushing wrong? Well there's a couple of reasons.

1. Many people, in fact, I'd even venture to say that, most people in this game are very young. By "very young" I mean 9-14 years old. I'm currently 16 years old, turning 17 very soon. When I started PL I was 14. Believe me when I say that it was very easy for me to take this game way too seriously. I don't anymore but that's a story for another time. What I'm trying to say is, people take this game way too seriously! Especially the younger generation. Rushing somebody who takes the game so seriously is almost like a slap in the face in real life. You might say to yourself, "That is their problem, not mine!" You're absolutely right! And that changes absolutely nothing.

2. PL is a game. Like all games there are rules. Because a vast majority of people see these rules as only allowing 1v1, they see rushers as cheating. Cheating is wrong. You might think to yourself, "If the rules are for 1v1 then why are we able to rush?" That argument actually isn't valid. Ever played a board game? It's very easy to jack extra money in Monopoly, or rearrange your boats in Battleship. That doesn't make it any less wrong.

So we begin to enter the mindset of those who consider rushing wrong, but what about those who consider it right? Hopefully all you die hard 1v1 players
will begin to realize that, no, rushers don't hate you! They are simply playing by the way they think the game should be played. That brings us to the "Rights of Rushing."

Rights of Rushing-

1. Nine out of ten rushers believe that the game was meant to be played as a FFA style. They believe that 1v1 players have only invented rules to benefit themselves. I guess you could say rushers feel as if the die hard 1v1 guys are the ones cheating! Not themselves! It's like that little kid who makes up a game and keeps changing the rules to his advantage. Rushers have said, "Enough. We play by the REAL rules!" Is this true? Is FFA the way the game is supposed to be played? I suppose it's hard to say for sure. Although, it should be noted that all of the pvp maps have descriptions that do not contain any kind of 1v1 description. On the contrary, they are quite bluntly FFA.

2. It's a game! Many rushers cannot begin to fathom how butt hurt people can get for simply being killed in a game. Often rushers will say things like, "Calm down! It's just a game!" This is why most rushers don't talk much. The less they talk, the less likely they are to get caught up in the drama brought about by their rushing. A classic example of this is Jop, the level 23 Mage. I remember him telling me how he would laugh when people started making fun of him. He doesn't see the "big deal" with rushing. To him it's all a part of the GAME.

Alright hang tight everybody! We're getting toward the end! I promise ;) So, we've discussed what the current situation is with rushing. We've discussed the pros and cons of rushing as well as the rights and wrongs of it. So what are we to make of all of this? Which "side" should we pick? Should we rush or not? What are we to make of rushing? That brings us to the next and final section.

[MightyMicah]

What are We to Make of Rushing?

In this final section I'm going to give you guys my opinion on this ordeal. I'm going to go ahead and split it up into a few different points that I think should be mentioned which most people don't always think of. Then I will present my final conclusion.

1. Has anyone ever noticed the way, "rushing" is used interchangeably with the phrase "FFA"? I find this ironic considering that rushing, and playing FFA are two entirely different things. You may not believe me, but I'm going to prove it to you.

What happens when a rusher enters a room and starts rushing? Usually, nine times out of ten, the room will ultimately break out in a FFA. However, this should not be confused with a normal FFA. When a rusher starts an FFA it is always, always, always, founded on anger and raging. (It is important to note that the rusher may not be rushing out of anger. I'm simply stating that anger and raging is always involved one way or another.) Because there are almost always people containing two different viewpoints on pvp, people will most definitely get upset, angry, etc. It can't be avoided.

On the flip side, have you ever played a FFA where everyone in the room decided to FFA? It's a whole different scene isn't it? Generally, no one is upset or angry. Everyone agreed to FFA and so there can be no excuses made. Certainly anger and raging could enter this scenario (especially when one team turns out to be infinitely superior) however, most times, everyone will happily FFA. Often one team will compliment the other on their good efforts! Imagine that! Kindness in pvp?

Rushing does not equal FFA.

2. Notice above when I said nine times out of ten rushers believe the game is meant to be played FFA style? What about the other one out of ten? It came to my attention that many people believe rushing is "wrong," for whatever reason, and they still do it anyways! What's up with that? In other words, some rushers are complete hypocrites. Many times they will have a secret "rushing" character for fun, even though they think it's wrong.

3. I'd like to say a little something about the issue of "fairness" as it relates to FFA and 1v1. Nothing is fair. I could probably stop right there but I suppose I better explain in further detail ;) Many times you will see people say something like this, "Bird>Bear>Mage>Bird..." That is very, very true. Or, at least, the concept is. One class generally out does another class at every level. So how can any kind of 1v1 be fair? Unless you fight someone with the same class and level as yourself, it isn't fair. Even then it still isn't "fair" due to lag.

Many say that FFA is fair. Once again, FFA is not fair! While, personally, I believe it's more fair than 1v1, it cannot be ultimately classified fair just like that. What if one team is composed of three classes that are greater than the three classes on the other team? No teams are balanced. That's why many tournaments let people pick their teams. Part of the strategy is choosing an over powered team to go out and dominate!

Just to clarify, I'm not trying to say that this game isn't fair. (I know...Cry moar plox ;)) Lol...all I'm trying to say is, nothing is fair! Therefore, everything is. You just gotta accept that some days the odds are with you and other days they aren't. Remember it is a game. At the end of the day it doesn't matter who won that FFA! It really doesn't. It just doesn't.

4. Lastly, I will tell you the decision I have made as far as rushing or not rushing is concerned. I have decided not to rush for many reasons. That is to say, I will generally stick to 1v1 for many reasons. These reasons are as follows:

a- I don't like making people butt hurt. Sure it's their problem but I don't care.

b- Playing 1v1 does not mean I will never get an FFA. Heck, I've had more FFA's in the last week than I've had in forever!

c- I happen to believe that, regardless of how pvp originated, the majority of players now (including most of my best friends) believe that the 1v1 play style is the way things should be.

d- I like 1v1! I like chilling on a map talking with people while challenging others in combat. I like chilling while casually playing pvp. I would never want pvp to be an all out FFA. That would destroy the pvp that I've come to know and love. I can get an all out FFA in any mmo.

Finally I'd like to say that this is how I personally view this issue! I am 110% positive that many, many people will disagree with me. In fact, I'm sure many will want to discuss it out with me. That's ok! This isn't any kind of deep philosophy we're discussing. We simply disagree on the rules of the game. I'd like to point out that this thread was not made in an attempt to persuade anyone in any direction. I simply wanted to try and shed some light in this subject since so many people seem confused about it. With any luck, I succeeded!

This is a very sensitive topic to most. Please keep chat on topic and civil! Thank you so much for reading my thread all the way through! Any feedback is so, so, so, appreciated! I hope you learned a thing or two from it. Peace out! :D

(Sorry for any grammar mistakes. I tried my best to get rid of them all but I AM on my iPad and I can only be so thorough)

~MM

[MightyMicah]

Reserved just in case.

I suppose I might as well say sorry about the title! It's supposed to be, "To rush, or not to rush? (An exhaustive examination of the infamous concept of rushing)" but apparently I ran out of title space and didn't realize it...

[Piosidon]

Only Rushers that rush for hatred and bullying are a problem. The kind of Rushers I like are the ones that will stop if you ask politely and don't curse.

[ArtofWar]

too much to read.. is there a short form?

[Yich]

A big reason people choose to not constant FFA is because if anyone starts to use dirt tactics (midfight leaving, dual logging to fill up the opposite team until its full with 1 other person to rush, super buff kiting, etc..) then they wouldn't be able to do anything to stop them because everyone is mindlessly killing each other. If everyone the FFA is organized, possibly locked, great. Otherwise people can use dirt tactics without consequence, and that's not cool.

[MightyMicah]

too much to read.. is there a short form?

Perhaps skip over to the topics that most relate to you, or just read my conclusion :-)

[AbsolutePally]

Pvp was always pvp, meaning you entered prepared to pvp/fight. The strong survived the weak hit the exit button.
1/1 was invented to save less experienced "noob" players from the quick pace that was pvp in the pre.gcd days.

It takes more skill to ffa than 1/1 , which only works on a players one dimensional speed and range vs a single target. Often "perfect" combos are easily achieved, which does nothing for ffa. Often times, when testing people I can see that people are only used to 1/1 BC of there lackings as a rounded pvper. 1/1 helps you to an extent of basic pvp procedures but you lack deep knowledge of your characters strengths and weaknesses. IMO 1/1 benefits int mages the most, due to their buffs/shield and birds the least since they can typically fight well if not best in ffa situations.
But even though I know how it is supposed to be I still refrain from rushing. Not everyone has.been playing 2 years, therefore I have a personal responsibility to not use my "power" to kill weaker players just because I can.
If we could spread the word that would help.
It just seems to me people have lost the ambition to get better and be the best from actually fighting, nowadays everyone is only concerned with their recored. And only do things that are favorable for their imminent positive outcome. Like 1/1s only, only fighting with their guild vs noobs, fighting only people they know they can beat, e.i warbirds fighting dex birds but saying no to other classes they are weak agaisnt. Pride is gone from pvp, pride in finding the best pvpers to learn from and fight.

[MightyMicah]

Pvp was always pvp, meaning you entered prepared to pvp/fight. The strong survived the weak hit the exit button.
1/1 was invented to save less experienced "noob" players from the quick pace that was pvp in the pre.gcd days.

It takes more skill to ffa than 1/1 , which only works on a players one dimensional speed and range vs a single target. Often "perfect" combos are easily achieved, which does nothing for ffa. Often times, when testing people I can see that people are only used to 1/1 BC of there lackings as a rounded pvper. 1/1 helps you to an extent of basic pvp procedures but you lack deep knowledge of your characters strengths and weaknesses. IMO 1/1 benefits int mages the most, due to their buffs/shield and birds the least since they can typically fight well if not best in ffa situations.
But even though I know how it is supposed to be I still refrain from rushing. Not everyone has.been playing 2 years, therefore I have a personal responsibility to not use my "power" to kill weaker players just because I can.
If we could spread the word that would help.
It just seems to me people have lost the ambition to get better and be the best from actually fighting, nowadays everyone is only concerned with their recored. And only do things that are favorable for their imminent positive outcome. Like 1/1s only, only fighting with their guild vs noobs, fighting only people they know they can beat, e.i warbirds fighting dex birds but saying no to other classes they are weak agaisnt. Pride is gone from pvp, pride in finding the best pvpers to learn from and fight.

Thanks for the well thought out response!

[Waug]

good, mature thinking, but it's not all, about rushing.

[MightyMicah]

good, mature thinking, but it's not all, about rushing.

Hmm, what do you mean by that?

[Back]

Well, I rush too but I don't pick on noobs that can't defend themselves.. Heck even in 56 pvp my warbird "ThornBlast" gets rushed by a team of L.61s for asking asking a "free", now they are impossible for me to kill yet I don't give up and in the I get around 3-4 kills with 50 to 60 deaths.. I don't mind that at all.. I play for fun.. KDR can't stop me from having fun.. (I have a positive ratio though). Also I pick on ppl I can't kill during GO calls, coz that's the only way to get myself better as I believe it.

Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2

[Like-A-Boss]

The way this works is that when a player rushes another player:
A) either that player or the whole side will kill the rusher. Then they keep repeating that with the excuse of "your a rusher" until the game ends or the rusher leaves.
B) the rushers leaves after killing a player
C) the rusher leaves, rejoins and wipes out the rest
D) nobody cares about the rusher so only the rusher and rushed fight 1 v 1

[Daueden]

I think that they should just make a pvp map for FFA and some that you have to say go or you cant kill the opposing team I don't know if they can do that or not but if they can they should it would make pvp much more fun. Then there are teamers which I find everytime I go into a pvp match. So I am just going to CTF from now on

[Bous]

Man back in the day there was no such thing as rushing. Was just kill your opponents.

[MightyMicah]

The more I read y'all's comments, the more I'm convinced no one read the whole thread. XD Or ya'll just have closed minds ;)

[Waug]

The more I read y'all's comments, the more I'm convinced no one read the whole thread. XD Or ya'll just have closed minds ;)

I did, and commented too :)

[ninjaduck]

Rushing is brilliant. It triggers a sudden tension between the victim and the rusher. This means everything gets more fun. No excuses. Its now your job to keep yourself alive, and to keep the reputation of being a successful rusher. The kind of people I hate are people that literally have a list of excuses ready.

Some of the excuses:

1. lag
2. phone call
3. text
3. teleport
4. hacker
5. forgotten bow
6. pumpkin chunker
7. pink snow
8. ping
9. lag spike
10. missed stomp. (my favourite. i acually lol when someone says it)
11. brother was using phone
12. im on pc
13. im on phone
14. im on ipad.


You get my jist? Rushing is fun because it brings out the moral and social weaknesses within the victim. A mature person would simply play along, and do a 1v1 FFA until someone (usually me :( ) calls a truce. By doing THIS, you can see the opponent's strengths, and possibly have a long lasting friendship :)

And what you said about Rusher KD being bad. That is bogus. Just pick your opponents more wisely.

[Waug]

Rushing is brilliant. It triggers a sudden tension between the victim and the rusher. This means everything gets more fun. No excuses. Its now your job to keep yourself alive, and to keep the reputation of being a successful rusher. The kind of people I hate are people that literally have a list of excuses ready.

Some of the excuses:

1. lag
2. phone call
3. text
3. teleport
4. hacker
5. forgotten bow
6. pumpkin chunker
7. pink snow
8. ping
9. lag spike
10. missed stomp. (my favourite. i acually lol when someone says it)
11. brother was using phone
12. im on pc
13. im on phone
14. im on ipad.


You get my jist? Rushing is fun because it brings out the moral and social weaknesses within the victim. A mature person would simply play along, and do a 1v1 FFA until someone (usually me :( ) calls a truce. By doing THIS, you can see the opponent's strengths, and possibly have a long lasting friendship :)

And what you said about Rusher KD being bad. That is bogus. Just pick your opponents more wisely.

ewwwww lag

[Ubernewber]

I'm one of the duuuuuuuuuuuuuq's rushing if fun:D

[Ubernewber]

Rushing is brilliant. It triggers a sudden tension between the victim and the rusher. This means everything gets more fun. No excuses. Its now your job to keep yourself alive, and to keep the reputation of being a successful rusher. The kind of people I hate are people that literally have a list of excuses ready.

Some of the excuses:

1. lag
2. phone call
3. text
3. teleport
4. hacker
5. forgotten bow
6. pumpkin chunker
7. pink snow
8. ping
9. lag spike
10. missed stomp. (my favourite. i acually lol when someone says it)
11. brother was using phone
12. im on pc
13. im on phone
14. im on ipad.


You get my jist? Rushing is fun because brings out the moral and social weaknesses within the victim. A mature person would simply play along, and do a 1v1 FFA until someone (usually me :( ) calls a truce. By doing THIS, you can see the opponent's strengths, and possibly have a long lasting friendship :)

And what you said about Rusher KD being bad. That is bogus. Just pick your opponents more wisely.

I fell the same way :P

[MightyMicah]

And what you said about Rusher KD being bad. That is bogus. Just pick your opponents more wisely.

It seems we don't disagree about the concept of rushing being bad for your kdr. It seems where we disagree is in the very definition of a "rusher." Look at Jop. That is, in my opinion, the prime definition of a rusher. If you rush like Jop, there is no possible way to get a "good" kdr. That is, of course, assuming that 2-1 or less is not "good." I happen to think a 2-1 kdr is quite excellent indeed.

[crestmage]

I think that they should just make a pvp map for FFA and some that you have to say go or you cant kill the opposing team I don't know if they can do that or not but if they can they should it would make pvp much more fun. Then there are teamers which I find everytime I go into a pvp match. So I am just going to CTF from now on

EVERY map is supposed to be FFA styled, actually. Read the descriptions. :)

[crestmage]

It seems we don't disagree about the concept of rushing being bad for your kdr. It seems where we disagree is in the very definition of a "rusher." Look at Jop. That is, in my opinion, the prime definition of a rusher. If you rush like Jop, there is no possible way to get a "good" kdr. That is, of course, assuming that 2-1 or less is not "good." I happen to think a 2-1 kdr is quite excellent indeed.

Or just spend 2 plat and everything's hidden :D

[ninjaduck]

It seems we don't disagree about the concept of rushing being bad for your kdr. It seems where we disagree is in the very definition of a "rusher." Look at Jop. That is, in my opinion, the prime definition of a rusher. If you rush like Jop, there is no possible way to get a "good" kdr. That is, of course, assuming that 2-1 or less is not "good." I happen to think a 2-1 kdr is quite excellent indeed.

I've rushed Jop and I've won

I've rushed Kawa and I've won.

These are just like one night stands, they won't happen again. Its just luck. Why you would want to rush Jop again I don't know.

[MightyMicah]

I've rushed Jop and I've won

I've rushed Kawa and I've won.

These are just like one night stands, they won't happen again. Its just luck. Why you would want to rush Jop again I don't know.

I think you misunderstand me. I don't mean "rush like Jop" as in rush Jop. I mean rush with the mentality of Jop. In other words, rush everyone in sight. A true rusher rushes his friends and his foes. That is my definition of a true rusher. With that definition, 2-1 kdr is about as good as it gets.

[ninjaduck]

That's where you're wrong.

This:


A true rusher rushes his friends and his foes. That is my definition of a true rusher.


is the definition of an insult that a victim will call the attacker.

This:


...rush everyone in sight

is the true definition.

[MightyMicah]

That's where you're wrong.

This:




is the definition of an insult that a victim will call the attacker.

This:



is the true definition.

I agree. And, with that definition, no one will achieve a good kdr. My first statement in the thread still stands, once again, assuming 2-1 kdr is not "good."

[ninjaduck]

I agree. And, with that definition, no one will achieve a good kdr. My first statement in the thread still stands, once again, assuming 2-1 kdr is not "good."

To get a good KDR, you have to be good. Thats it. Jop is good. Restlessss is good. If you have a 2-1 KDR as a rusher, you aren't all that good.

[MightyMicah]

To get a good KDR, you have to be good. Thats it. Jop is good. Restlessss is good. If you have a 2-1 KDR as a rusher, you aren't all that good.

You're off track, man. We were discussing whether or not rushing is good for the kdr. You said it was, I said it wasn't. Clearly we disagree. Thanks for the discussion!

[ninjaduck]

[QUOTE=ninjaduck;834179]To get a good KDR, you have to be good. Thats it. Jop is good. Restlessss is good. If you have a 2-1 KDR as a rusher, you aren't all that good.

You're off track, man. We were discussing whether or not rushing is good for the kdr. You said it was, I said it wasn't. Clearly we disagree. Thanks for the discussion![/QUOTE

Gf.

[saool]

haven't read the untrue thread...I will though lol
But yeah I rush rushers, and tend to get rushed too! It's fun, and well that's why I don't care much for my KDR names it more interesting. Only thing I don't like is teams when you're alone. So unfair. Specially when they call their guild to fill up spots on my side where I could get my own team to help. Oh well some people are like that. As for being called noob well if they require a team against one person to kill them then it goes to show how the real noob is... Just saying. Overall fun fun! :D

[vampinoy]

I read the whole thing, it's a nice read. You pretty much covered what I have to say, so I'll just rehash it a little bit.

I think rushing is part of PvP based on my experience in gaming. I played a lot of MMORPGs with thief/rogue/assassin class/builds that can either stealth, have insane range (so far, you don't see them from your field of vision), or a combination of both...that allows me to kill an opponent instantly (or deplete their hp significantly) before they can even unsheathe their weapon. I played MOBA games (Starcraft, DOTA, League of Legends) where teaming and ganking is key to victory. I played FPS MMORPGs that has players camping or hiding and tries to kill you on your blindside.

PvP is a stand alone mechanic not exclusive to MMORPGs, that's what you didn't mention - from Action-Adventure, MMO, RTS, Puzzle, FPS, etc. Currently, PvP games exist in the form of MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) and those games are the ones specializing on PvP and nothing else, everything PvP. MMORPGs simply integrated this mechanic, however, PvP on its own already have precedents and rich history. Pocket Legends and its PvP is an infant game if you compare it to the rich history of PvP, that's why there are precedents from earlier gamers and developers alike, so present gamers and developers can follow it and not make the same mistakes. I'm saying it now, the community is repeating a mistake that's already been seen in the past.

Reading your composition, you are letting current (young in virtual scene) players define how PvP should be in this game when in fact it has already been determined by older generations of gamers that began writing it even before you were born (that long history)...so the PL community is making the mistake of ignoring the precedents and start from scratch!!! People will make the same mistake over and over if they're not guided by precedents. You think previous gamers didn't have players who were emotional too? or didn't get butt hurt whenever someone ganked them? They did too...This game is not immune to the pitfalls that previous PvP games has made, that's why precedents are very useful as a guide...if you let players define PvP without guidance of precedents, and just try to define it on their own, then expect it to see the same erasures :D

This issue of rushing has already been encountered in the past and has now been resolved and recorded in anals of history of gaming, why make the same mistake? Why go through the same thing? It has already been proven a myth. Example, remember the rushing issue on Zergs in Starcraft back in the 90s? Everyone despised that, until people became more learned in the art of defending their base properly (Zerg rushing became obsolete). That's the reason why we have the term "Zerging" now referring to people rushing in groups. Now PL is making the same mistake, like how players in Starcraft despised Zerg rushing before...so too are PL despising rushing here...it's the same banana...history repeating itself...sadly, nobody or minority are guided by precedents..

I don't think real life age has got anything to do with this, it's more of people's age in the virtual scene...the culprit is because PL is a mobile game where many players have very little to no experience in gaming as a whole. The players in PL would not be gamers if it weren't available in their mobile phones. So your player base is filled "circumstantial players" that without that given circumstance (mobile phone) they wouldn't even be playing an MMO, that's crucial for this issue because that explains why the culture is very "emotional", they're just not prepared or ripe compared to a guy who bought an entire PC rig just to play a game...who probably looked up everything about MMOS before he even unboxed his game. Go to PC, and you'll see true gamers there that go out of their way to play games, read up history, research just about anything and everything, everyone's bringing their A-game, a lot of people playing devoid of emotions and just all about being the best, and some even make careers out of it. The difference in culture is astounding. That's why it's trying to write its own history...which means repeating the same mistakes just in a little bit different form.

I'm calling it now, bookmark this post, PL will eventually be FFA-centric with 1on1 duels. Eventually people will wake up and just FFA each other while 1on1 will be limited to duel maps. It's inevitable as seen in history. In fact, this thread is already a pulse that FFA generation is making some noise. You said it yourself, it only takes one person to rush and the entire room erupts, soon (far soon)...that will be the norm. Soon, the FFA crazies will outnumber the 1on1s, it will take (a lot) time true (just as how PC gaming took decades to evolve too), but that's how history unfolds, slowly but surely. I'm not predicting, it already happened...just in another game years ago..I'm quoting :D This is De ja Vu to gamers like me who've been around for a while...:D ...and I believe this is the reason why hardcore gamers (mostly PC) don't last very long here...they get turned off by this...it feels like it's step back to the evolution of gaming.

For those TL:DR: Rushing, Ganking, Teaming, whatever else you call it that involves killing other people is part of PvP.

PS: I'm not saying anyone reads up on history and start educating themselves. This is just how I interpret it. A different perspective. Just step back a little bit and ponder...what if nobody is rushing at all? What if everyone is inclined to ask permission before they kill someone, imagine how the entire PvP universe would change...just thinking about it gives me the creeps, such a boring world that be, and I might as well just buy a Street Fighter game instead, what difference does it make? :D That's one of the enjoyable things that's in PvP that's not in a fighting game, the element of surprise? Right?

PSS: I also think a major factor is non-action of the developer itself. There are many ways to trigger FFA culture for instance put a TIME LIMIT, that simple...and you get additional seconds of stay in the PvP arena the more you kill people, if you run out of time, you'll aumatically get booted... :D ...or remove chat from opposing teams...or automatic shuffling of players unless it's tournament format...etc. many ways...It feels like the developer itself doesn't want to foster too much competitive gameplay (maybe to avoid griefing but that's an inevitable aspect, it's like yin and yang, you can't have one thing and not have the other). There are many ways to push the action. Ciao!

[Yich]

I read the whole thing, it's a nice read. You pretty much covered what I have to say, so I'll just rehash it and make it a shorter.

I think rushing is part of PvP based on my experience in gaming. I played a lot of MMORPGs with thief/rogue/assassin class/builds that can either stealth, have insane range (so far, you don't see them from your field of vision), or a combination of both...that allows me to kill an opponent instantly (or deplete their hp significantly) before they can even unsheathe their weapon. I played MOBA games (Starcraft, DOTA, League of Legends) where teaming and ganking is key to victory. I played FPS MMORPGs that has players camping or hiding and tries to kill you on your blindside.

PvP is a stand alone mechanic not exclusive to MMORPGs, that's what you didn't mention - from Action-Adventure, MMO, RTS, Puzzle, FPS, etc. Currently, PvP games exist in the form of MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) and those games are the ones specializing on PvP and nothing else, everything PvP. MMORPGs simply integrated this mechanic, however, PvP on its own already have precedents and rich history. Pocket Legends and its PvP is an infant game if you compare it to the rich history of PvP, that's why there are precedents from earlier gamers and developers alike, so they can follow it and not make the same mistakes. I'm saying it now, the community is repeating a mistake that we've already seen in the past.

Reading your composition, you are letting players define how PvP should be in this game when in fact it has already been determined by older generations of gamers even before you were born (that long history)...so you're making the mistake of ignoring the precedents and starting from scratch. People will make the same mistake over and over if they're not guided by precedents. This game is not immune to the pitfalls that previous PvP has made, that's why precedents are very useful.

This issue of rushing has already been encountered in the past and has now been resolved and recorded in anals of history of gaming, why make the same mistake? Why go through the same thing? It has already been proven a myth. Example, remember the rushing issue on Zergs in Starcraft back in the 90s? Everyone despised that, until people became more learned in the art of defending their base properly (Zerg rushing became obsolete). That's the reason why we have the term "Zerging" now referring to people rushing in groups. Now PL is making the same mistake, like how players in Starcraft despised Zerg rushing before...so too are PL despising rushing here...it's the same banana...history repeating itself...sadly, nobody or minority are guided by precedents..

I don't think real life age has got anything to do with this, it's more of people's age in the virtual scene...the culprit is because PL is a mobile game where many players have very little to no experience in gaming as a whole. The players in PL would not be gamers if it weren't available in their mobile phones. Go to PC, and you'll see true gamers there that go out of their way to play games. The difference in culture is astounding. That's why it's trying to write its own history...which means repeating the same mistakes.

I'm calling it now, bookmark this post, PL will eventually be FFA-centric with 1on1 duels. Eventually people will wake up and just FFA each other while 1on1 will be limited to duel maps. I'm not predicting, it already happened...just in another game years ago :D This is De ja Vu to gamers like me who've been around for decades.

Me and my gang will still sit if you rush the opposing team and we have a friend on it. lol. If you have a problem with it and all you do is rush, you can't really do anything to solve it. You can mindlessly rush though, that you can do.

[MightyMicah]

@Vampinoy,

Thanks so much! I can tell you read my thread all the way through! I, as wells read your post all the way through. My only question is, why do you think Pocket Legends is repeating a mistake? Couldn't another perspective say that the mistake is no mistake at all? In other words, couldn't someone say that 1v1 is the way things should be and that history is wrong? I mean, it's not like history can't be wrong. Take Guild Wars 2 for instance. They've broken away from all kinds of traditional mmorpg ideas. Why shouldn't Pocket Legends be "evolving" forwards instead of backwards with its ideas about 1v1 being the "right" way to pvp?

[vampinoy]

@Vampinoy,

Thanks so much! I can tell you read my thread all the way through! I, as wells read your post all the way through. My only question is, why do you think Pocket Legends is repeating a mistake? Couldn't another perspective say that the mistake is no mistake at all? In other words, couldn't someone say that 1v1 is the way things should be and that history is wrong? I mean, it's not like history can't be wrong. Take Guild Wars 2 for instance. They've broken away from all kinds of traditional mmorpg ideas. Why shouldn't Pocket Legends be "evolving" forwards instead of backwards with its ideas about 1v1 being the "right" way to pvp?

You've a good point there. That's also possible. History could be wrong and PL is in a noble journey in rewriting history. Only time can tell. Anyway, When that time comes and Pocket Legends is proven correct that rushing/ganking/teaming/etc. is indeed "bad", then all the other games that I played and still playing that promotes rushing/ganking/teaming/etc. will become obsolete. I'm talking about MOBA games, FPS MMORPGs, MMORPG with PvP servers, yada yada yada. They cannot co-exist because both schools of thought are oil and water, either it's rushing or 1v1 in a PvP zone. Only time can tell. For now, PL is the underdog because the rushing thing has already been considered a myth by majority of the MMO games out there (talking about the top ones). Most consider the art of stealth and killing by surprise part of your "skill set".
I'm sure you know this being a fellow GW2 player :D That culture holds true in Rift and WoW btw, I also play those two just to PvP. They have arenas (WoW) that once everyone's in, it's just kill kill kill, if you blink or go soft for a second, you die...or a in Rift, while quietly going about your business doing your quests in open world PvP maps, someone one shots you behind your back (LOL!) which forces you as a low level to move unseen or know the blindsides of other players (a very useful player skill).

I think one good addition in PvP mechanic that's lacking in PL is the inability to lobby games. Meaning, you don't start until both sides are complete and there's a time limit. I'm sure STS knows that, and I think they purposely not included it. That's basic, lobbying matches. You see how lobbying changed things in Dark Legends? Nothing fancy, they just presented it differently and people started enjoying FFA. That simple mechanic catapulted DL above PL to many STS players...:D In fact as far as PvP, DL already surpassed PL in terms of culture...why is that? PL could have started like that too...that's what I'm saying...precedents (almost all good MMOs out there have lobbying matches, if they took notice of that..)...sadly, PvP is the only good thing in DL (LOL!) that I like...it fails in the other parts IMO, if you combine DL's PvP to PL's charisma, you have a blockbuster...just saying

By the way, PL isn't evolving backwards, it's just starting from scratch and ignoring precedents. It could have started on a much advanced state if players are more familiar with precedents of PvP, and developers more aggressive in promoting competitive gameplay. I'm just saying PL's taking the slower route but eventually it will get there to where PC MMO is today (provided it lives that long), they will catch up. I'm just saying, why go through all this evolution hiccups if you could start at an advanced stage. Well...only time can tell. But good thread :D I like how you presented both sides.

[JeffSorrows]

Seems quite biased and not ery balanced in any section. Though it is somewhat informative, it is nice to read, if you have the time. Or the attention span. Maybe just clean it up here and there, and would be better by having all your posts into one organized bit on the OP. Seems a bit over the top to have like 5 posts. But works out I suppose. Anyways just add some more concise information, and may become extremely useful, when the bias is lowered to a minumum. Maybe find three people who are either nuetral, pro and against rushing to get a good mix and feel of it. I don't pvp much and so doesn't bug me either way, as long as everyone is having fun. Thanks for the post(s)

[MightyMicah]

Seems quite biased and not ery balanced in any section. Though it is somewhat informative, it is nice to read, if you have the time. Or the attention span. Maybe just clean it up here and there, and would be better by having all your posts into one organized bit on the OP. Seems a bit over the top to have like 5 posts. But works out I suppose. Anyways just add some more concise information, and may become extremely useful, when the bias is lowered to a minumum. Maybe find three people who are either nuetral, pro and against rushing to get a good mix and feel of it. I don't pvp much and so doesn't bug me either way, as long as everyone is having fun. Thanks for the post(s)

Thanks for the opinion Jeff! I must say I'm quite shocked that you should say it's biased. Especially considering that I, myself, cannot really decide which opinion is right. Anyways, the reasons I divided it I to five sections is because I originally thought my post was going to be much longer. I wrote this all in the iPad app "notes." Believe me. It looked much longer. Lol anyways, if I'd have known it was so short I wouldn't have separated it like that.

[imxoriginal]

Pvp back in the day used to be the main factor in why i used to come on and play pocket legends. Player vs. Player used to be so fun, the excitement of having 3v3 matches that would go by quick not having to wait 20 minutes to finish one match and wait 30 seconds or more to wait for the other players buff to come back. I don't know a single mmorpg that has this problem. Everyone just deal with it. There was a time when pvp used to be straight up ffa. And this constant complaining about it just gives me a headache.

[MightyMicah]

Pvp back in the day used to be the main factor in why i used to come on and play pocket legends. Player vs. Player used to be so fun, the excitement of having 3v3 matches that would go by quick not having to wait 20 minutes to finish one match and wait 30 seconds or more to wait for the other players buff to come back. I don't know a single mmorpg that has this problem. Everyone just deal with it. There was a time when pvp used to be straight up ffa. And this constant complaining about it just gives me a headache.

Haha agreed. Although I'm always up for discussing it ;)

[imxoriginal]

Haha agreed. Although I'm always up for discussing it ;)
No please, seriously give me another popular mmorpg with this problem of "rushing" and ffa. This is absoluteness ridiculous people need to learn to not complain and deal with it. I'm fine with talking and maybe having 1v1's but every single match you go in people complain when you do ffa or rush.

[MightyMicah]

No please, seriously give me another popular mmorpg with this problem of "rushing" and ffa. This is absoluteness ridiculous people need to learn to not complain and deal with it. I'm fine with talking and maybe having 1v1's but every single match you go in people complain when you do ffa or rush.

Actually, buddy, did you know that you're complaining about people complaining? That's kinda ironic if you ask me. ;)

[Yich]

For all of you who think constant FFA is the route to take, I want you all to participate in a low level game with Gundamsone. If he uses full on cheap tactics, you will rage quit. If everyone just rushed senselessly then there would be no way to combat these cheap tactics. Teaming them out of PvP is the easiest and most effective solution. Ever been rush booted before? Here's how it goes. You join my game. I set my quickchat to say "/boot (whatever your name is) gf nub". Then I rush you and press my quick chat. If I do this at rockwall forts, you can't fight back. What can you do about it? Team me later. How will you team me if my teammates are all mindlessly FFAing? You won't.

Next scenario: You're in low level PvP. A fairly smart player makes a bird with a name like wmwmwmwvvmwmwm and joins your game. Using the most OP weapon-class combination to date, that bird can kill you over and over without worry of being booted. What can you do? Well, you could team them. Oh wait, their whole team is using cheap tactics as well. What a pity.

It goes on and on, endless amounts of tactics that shouldn't be allowed. You may think that silly rules such as "say go" made up by some random player isn't a rule you need to follow, but players made the rule and they will punish those who break it with what little power they have (teaming).

[Mage till the end]

I <3 rushing

[MightyMicah]

I <3 rushing

You sound like Ghost! ;)

[Ubernewber]

Rushing? What's that. Who invented Go anyway? I remember pvp when everyone was just killing each other completely quiet games :/

[MightyMicah]

Rushing? What's that. Who invented Go anyway? I remember pvp when everyone was just killing each other completely quiet games :/

Let us not forget that, regardless of the origin of 1v1, it still exists. I addressed that in my thread ;)

[Like-A-Boss]

I like rushing cuz I love adding deaths to twink's kd. And then leaving when they are about to hit me after running the whole map.
Then i come back and taunt them and spam them. :banana:

[MightyMicah]

I like rushing cuz I love adding deaths to twink's kd. And then leaving when they are about to hit me after running the whole map.
Then i come back and taunt them and spam them. :banana:

Thanks for reading my thread...

[Like-A-Boss]

no problemo

[Cavoc]

Bump

[Cheenivie]

I like rushing cuz I love adding deaths to twink's kd. And then leaving when they are about to hit me after running the whole map.
Then i come back and taunt them and spam them. :banana:

This isn't rushing it's being a nub

[Bhurtz]

I like rushing cuz I love adding deaths to twink's kd. And then leaving when they are about to hit me after running the whole map.
Then i come back and taunt them and spam them. :banana:

thats being a (badword that begins with D).

[Caiahar]

Bump
I remember this thread :P

[MightyMicah]

I remember this thread :P

Me too! I was so proud of it. I had unlocked the mystery of pvp and couldn't wait to share it with everyone. Then no one freaking read it xD

Thanks for the bump, Trent!

[Caiahar]

I remember this thread :P

Me too! I was so proud of it. I had unlocked the mystery of pvp and couldn't wait to share it with everyone. Then no one freaking read it xD

Thanks for the bump, Trent!
I remember posting on this though :/ guess it was different thread..or deleted.

[Cavoc]

Me too! I was so proud of it. I had unlocked the mystery of pvp and couldn't wait to share it with everyone. Then no one freaking read it xD

Thanks for the bump, Trent!
#nolove4tron

[MightyMicah]

#nolove4tron

Haha my bad bro...Thanks Tron* :)