Concerning PvP (not again!)

[Caspi]

Hey guys, I have seen some great suggestions here, but for every good one there is an equally bad suggestion. I thought I could try compiling not only what I have gotten from the many threads I have read here in the past few days, but also what I myself have learned from exstensive online pvping. So sit back and enjoy!

So, first off, what will work and what won't?

I have seen many ridiculous claims that 30+ people could be hosted on the same server. Having some limited expirience in online programming, I can assure you, this is not easy to accomplish lag free with the various obsticles such as server locations, WiFi vs 3g, cross platforms, and many more other things I do not want to get into. But besides the technical limitations, there is the practicle side to trying to have massive games. If a guild of 10 people join for a 10v10, they would have to wait for another 10 players to join the opposite side. Because a queue system would be problematic, this waiting would most likely end up in griefing single enemies who join alone, until they leave the server. 10v0 again, with the guild having gotten a few kills.
One way to fix this would be automatic balancing, but that would not be as fun as getting to fight with your friends.

What I think WOULD work are small scale battles on maps designed for pvp. Small scale means 1v1-4v4, although I believe griefing like mentioned earlier may start in a 4v1 situation. But finding 4 friends is much faster than 10.


Joining a pvp game

I think that the server select that is being used right now is close to what we want. Map name, level range of players, ect. In pvp, it will be very important to put level caps on games. We do not want a level 30 joining a level 3 game. Once you join, you should propobly be given time to ready up. Get to full health ect, then press the big Start Pvp button that confirms that you are now killable\can get kills.

The maps

As I mentioned, brand new maps should be made. Old themes are ok, but these dungeons would not provide fast paced action we want in small games. Arena style maps would be preferable, with a circlular design so that combat is forced to be in the middle. A few tunnels is fine, but no mazes.

Mobs in PvP, nty

I have seen this work before, but the way Pocket Legends plays right now, I do not want to see it. You need to waste cooldowns on mobs depending on your class, and in PvP, everything helps. Mobs would also decrease the amount of other stuff such as players in the game. And it would make it extremly unfair to be having a 1v1 and then suddenly being attacked by a pack of mobs.

Looting, death, and rewards

Looting
No thanks. No player looting. This is not a hard core mmo that you are supposed to play for 20 hours a day to get thr best gear over and over, this is a relaxed mmo for iPhones that you take out when you have a moment of free time. If this was supposed to be the other way, it would be clear. Leveling would be slower and harder. No, no looting. Maybe a honor system where you get a point for killing a player, or some gold. We want to keep our items and actually pvp, not grind for new ones whenever we die. I've had to do this in previous games, it's no fun. Maybe it makes it more intense, but really, please don't add this.

So if no looting, what do you get? I suggest a player kill count, simular to K/D. (which should also be shown). In this system, whenever you get or assist in a kill you would receive 5 points, and when you die you loose 2 points. Every 1000 or so, you are awarded a new title. You should also unlock purchasable gear depending on your title/rank. If we are going for a skill based grind, the last few levels should only give 10 or so points per kill and take 20 or so per death. This way those who do want to play hardcore would get their title rewards. This would of course go with leaderboards. And these figures are just random, they propobly need a lot of changing.

Other things

Well, you will hate me for this, but disable potions in pvp. Spamming 100 of them in a 1v1 is no fun, and just makes it unfair. Also, classes need more survivability. Warriors can not do much while being nuked from far, and archers can not get away fast from a warrior standing next to them beating on them. Also, a pvp and pve spec would be nice. Different things will work in different game types, and no one wants to spend so much money just to respec every other game.
I also was going to mention death somewhere, but forgot. Aside from loosing the point that I mentioned in the explination on my pvp system, you would have to wait for a new round. I doubt small games would take long, so rounds seem necissary. And if it IS a big game, wait a while to respawn. And most importantly, loss of ego on your K/D


Well, that's all for now, thanks for reading! Typed on my iPhone so sorry if it's short or has many mistakes. Cheers!

[Odvar]

excellant post, well said!

[Flamin]

I think that in a pvp room box, players should be able to change the side that they are on, so that they all dont end up on the same side. And also the creater/host of the game should be able to kick players or there should be a vote kick system.
Caspi, check out the combatarms game, and the dungeons in the mabinogi game, then get some ideas from it, then just uninstall them cause they aren't very good compared to all the other mmorpg games out there, but they got some unique ideas in them. (no advirtizment intended/meant)

[Demarrer]

What happens when you die, besides receiving a death?

[Caspi]

I think that in a pvp room box, players should be able to change the side that they are on, so that they all dont end up on the same side. Caspi, check out the combatarms game, and the dungeons in the mabinogi game, then get some ideas from it, then just uninstall them cause they aren't very good compared to all the other mmorpg games out there, but they got some unique ideas in them. (no advirtizment intended/meant)

Well the sides would be randomized unless you join as a group, in which case you would all spawn in the same side (or if you exceed the team size, split up). And the point of the maps would be to be balanced, so that you don't care which side your on.

As for me checking out the games, I can tomorrow. I doubt it will help in the long run though, as much as I would like to help in map design I doubt that I could help much in that. Giving ideas seems to be the most we can do, which is fine by me.

[Caspi]

Demarrer, updated last pharagraph if your interested in death. =)

[Demarrer]

Demarrer, updated last pharagraph if your interested in death. =)

So their is really no penalty for death. Why can't I just be resurrected? Mages have that spell? There should be a goal to the PvP battles rather than just first to X kills. Maybe first to kill the boss or open a chest?

[Banned]

I'm not really digging the unlocking items stuff. But everything else is pretty awesome.

[Demarrer]

I'm not really digging the unlocking items stuff. But everything else is pretty awesome.

Wouldn't that make things unbalanced? The higher you get obviously the better items you would receive. That would make things unbalanced.

[Flamin]

When pvp comes out, then in game guilds need to come out to along with a need/greed/pass by class system. (just see my really long thread for more info about the looting system). And on the pvp,, there should be pvps where guilds can fight each other which would be called guild wars. And there should also be like a 5v5 pvp too. And even if players don't make stakes, then the winner should get a random item of her/his class and a little gold too. and also players could get pvp tokens that players can turn in at a vendor for items and stuff. There should be a pvp arena for all pvp, an and some vendors right outside. And if there is going to be a pvp system like this then the max level needs to be at least 40, and players should get 5 lives (maybe just 3) in a pvp. And also in the pvp request box there should be an option so that players can dicide whether not they want healing an buff skills allowed and other skills (like the mage's fire skill and lightning skill)

On the thread “PVP – The Game Changing Idea” I agree with most of it but I don't agree about a penalty for dying. And on the potions, players should have more health and armor, because right now, because dying should be more rare, and because currently if you don't use potions then you like in like 5 seconds when there is a big mob. And if only 3 regular enemies are attacking you, then you can still quite easily die.

There should be a healer class and assassin class, and all classes should have an extra skill slot for healing. And also the max rank on skills should be 10 instead of 5, so that players can be more better. (read my really long thread for more info about classes. And also read buvet's thread about healer class, and Suzume's thread about theif/rogue/assassin class, and SirDarkened and Dakkine threads about attributes.

Once players are changed to have more armor and health, then they should add in a fear of dying. Or something like that.
Reply by Demarrer: Like I said, PvP isn't being added in the current system we have now. It will be added probably when bugs are fixed, classes are balanced, and everything works sufficiently.
Reply by Flamin: Ya but I really hope it will come out sooner.

Here is the loot system idea:

I think on the looting system it should be reallyneed/need/greed/pass because:

really need= I need this item for the current character I'm playing on because I'm the right class and level, and I do not have this item, and this item is better than the one I currently have.
need= I need this item for a different one of my characters or I need this item because I want to try it out or if someone has told me if I give them this item they will give me a different item (which is an item i need)
greed= the only reason I would need this item is if I wanted to sell it, or trade it.
pass= Ill just let someone else have this item item because I dont really need it or want it.

About guilds:
Players should have to be a really high level and pay like $0.99 and about 6000 gold to make a guild, BECAUSE this way there won't be a million different guilds.

I think that these things (guilds, trading, and looting systems) should be released soon after, before, or with the pvp system.

[Flamin]

What happens when you die, besides receiving a death?

if you loose then pvp then you loose the items/gold/exp/etc... that you staked. but if you win the pvp you win the items/gold/exp/etc... that you staked.
I dont know how the winning stuff would work with 2v2 or more. could someone please suggest an idea for that.

[Banned]

Wouldn't that make things unbalanced? The higher you get obviously the better items you would receive. That would make things unbalanced.

Not really unbalanced, but kind of unfair for the guy who just doesn't enjoy PVP. And the fact that if I happen to have 2 iPods and 2 accounts I could just rape my mule a bunch of times and unlock the items.

[Flamin]

Well the sides would be randomized unless you join as a group, in which case you would all spawn in the same side (or if you exceed the team size, split up). And the point of the maps would be to be balanced, so that you don't care which side your on.

As for me checking out the games, I can tomorrow. I doubt it will help in the long run though, as much as I would like to help in map design I doubt that I could help much in that. Giving ideas seems to be the most we can do, which is fine by me.

I agree, but the host/creater of a game have an option to either allow players to be able to change the side that they are on. And also the creater/host of the game should be able to kick players or there should be a vote kick system.

[Demarrer]

Not really unbalanced, but kind of unfair for the guy who just doesn't enjoy PVP. And the fact that if I happen to have 2 iPods and 2 accounts I could just rape my mule a bunch of times and unlock the items.

This thought alone destroys the PvP reward system.

[Banned]

NO on the kick idea. It's frikin PVP dude.

[Shebee]

Excellent post.
I would prefer to see something similar to arenas, maybe 2v2s? up to 5v5s?
Sounds good for me, also great point in the player looting.

I would love to see some leader-boards, maybe able to register your pvp groups like you would register a guild in the future?
That way we could rank the groups instead of individual people?

[Demarrer]

if you loose then pvp then you loose the items/gold/exp/etc... that you staked. but if you win the pvp you win the items/gold/exp/etc... that you staked.
I dont know how the winning stuff would work with 2v2 or more. could someone please suggest an idea for that.

Why not receive items in pvp areas just like you would now? Except the mob is actually people, however when you die it is loot-able. Now in this case we still have loot, but you lose nothing you had before.

[Banned]

Excellent post.
I would prefer to see something similar to arenas, maybe 2v2s? up to 5v5s?
Sounds good for me, also great point in the player looting.

I would love to see some leader-boards, maybe able to register your pvp groups like you would register a guild in the future?
That way we could rank the groups instead of individual people?

Group ranking sounds alot better then individual ranking.

[Shebee]

Or instead of everything being messy award people with currency they can buy pvp rewards they actually need?
Simple as that.

[ddarko18]

so then people who pvp all day would have better items than people who just want to occasionally pvp? wasnt your complaint earlier about looting system that this is a casual game shebee?

[Banned]

Or instead of everything being messy award people with currency they can buy pvp rewards they actually need?
Simple as that.

I could still rape a mule to get currency.

[Demarrer]

I could still rape a mule to get currency.

You cannot have a reward system for kills. As banned said, it is to easy to take advantage of with multiple devices.

[Shebee]

so then people who pvp all day would have better items than people who just want to occasionally pvp? wasnt your complaint earlier about looting system that this is a casual game shebee?

Again your post is paradox...
It would reward the ones that play more just as much as the looting system would....
Why wouldn't the ones that play more be rewarded with more points? Or in the looting system case, with more money and useless items.

[ddarko18]

I really dont understand where you are coming from, items you loot from corpses you skillfully defeated would be the same items you get from tackling bosses, it sounds like you want pvp specific items that you can only buy with this strange pvp currency

[Shebee]

I really dont understand where you are coming from, items you loot from corpses you skillfully defeated would be the same items you get from tackling bosses, it sounds like you want pvp specific items that you can only buy with this strange pvp currency

Doesn't have to be pvp items specifically, any items I don't care.

[Demarrer]

Again your post is paradox...
It would reward the ones that play more just as much as the looting system would....
Why wouldn't the ones that play more be rewarded with more points? Or in the looting system case, with more money and useless items.

A looting system doesn't reward people based on time played at all. If you kill someone you can loot them, simple as that. Items are still all based off time you put into the game regardless of PvP. A looting system has nothing to do with time played.

Like Banned said, a currency system would not work because it is very easy to kill your own guy on another account to achieve more points.

[Shebee]

A looting system doesn't reward people based on time played at all. If you kill someone you can loot them, simple as that. Items are still all based off time you put into the game regardless of PvP. A looting system has nothing to do with time played.

It's the same as having pvp currency.
I play more, I kill more people receiving more loot obviously, which is more rewarding than receiving less loot.
Playing more pvp would reward more points in the other system, points = items, more rewarding.

[ddarko18]

Lets say a guy wrecks Ernie the Elephant boss and he drops a sweet pink axe, guy already has a sweet pink dark sword, only one of those 2 items are safe until you can make it out of the dungeon to bank the other, if you get killed on the way out, then you will lose whichever one you decided not to secure and next time you will roll with a healer

[Demarrer]

It's the same as having pvp currency.
I play more, I kill more people receiving more loot obviously, which is more rewarding than receiving less loot.
Playing more pvp would reward more points in the other system, points = items, more rewarding.

I have two iPhones. I make two accounts. I repeatedly kill my one account with my other one. Now I have the best PvP items regardless of my skill level. That won't work at all.

You have to be good to receive loot. With this currency system you gain money from just hitting someone or stealing a kill. With the looting system you either would have to kill the person and loot them while being able to be attacked, or loot the corpse before someone else depending on how looting is implemented.

[Shebee]

Lets say a guy wrecks Ernie the Elephant boss and he drops a sweet pink axe, guy already has a sweet pink dark sword, only one of those 2 items are safe until you can make it out of the dungeon to bank the other, if you get killed on the way out, then you will lose whichever one you decided not to secure and next time you will roll with a healer

If you didnt read OPs post he said no for mobs in pvp zones/arenas or whatever.

[ddarko18]

if anything you have a better chance to get a great item by looting if you are a casual player who doesnt have time/patience to grind out

[ddarko18]

i didnt read it actually shebee, and frankly i dont care for it,but i dont see why there couldnt be pvp arenas and pvp dungeons?

[Shebee]

I have two iPhones. I make two accounts. I repeatedly kill my one account with my other one. Now I have the best PvP items regardless of my skill level. That won't work at all.

You have to be good to receive loot. With this currency system you gain money from just hitting someone or stealing a kill. With the looting system you either would have to kill the person and loot them while being able to be attacked, or loot the corpse before someone else depending on how looting is implemented.

You made a good point there. But still I'm not convinced over the loot system, I've played too many MMOs with that, and simply quit when I found out about that.
One thing I'd want to point out though, is that the loot system is not at all rewarding for skilled players, it's just another RNG thing.

[Demarrer]

if anything you have a better chance to get a great item by looting if you are a casual player who doesnt have time/patience to grind out

Scenario: It is a 5v5 battle. 9 of the people are all well skilled individuals, the other is new to the game but friends with the others. They start battling, and one has a great item. He dies in a battle. With the looting system, the new player can loot this awesome item. So any player, casual or hardcore, has the same chances of getting a good item through PvP.

[Demarrer]

You made a good point there. But still I'm not convinced over the loot system, I've played too many MMOs with that, and simply quit when I found out about that.
One thing I'd want to point out though, is that the loot system is not at all rewarding for skilled players, it's just another RNG thing.

While looting you are vulnerable to being attacked, so you have to protect yourself or your teammates while they loot. Adds some strategy to the game.

[Banned]

You made a good point there. But still I'm not convinced over the loot system, I've played too many MMOs with that, and simply quit when I found out about that.
One thing I'd want to point out though, is that the loot system is not at all rewarding for skilled players, it's just another RNG thing.

You mean I made good point. :p

[ddarko18]

i really dont understand how a loot system doesnt reward skilled players, if you are unskilled you will probably die and lose your item. If you are skilled you probably don't die, you probably kill the other person, and you get their item. who was rewarded more in this scenario?

[Shebee]

Scenario: It is a 5v5 battle. 9 of the people are all well skilled individuals, the other is new to the game but friends with the others. They start battling, and one has a great item. He dies in a battle. With the looting system, the new player can loot this awesome item. So any player, casual or hardcore, has the same chances of getting a good item through PvP.
I think that's unfair, why would someone I outplay have the same reward potential I have?


While looting you are vulnerable to being attacked, so you have to protect yourself or your teammates while they loot. Adds some strategy to the game.
This is another thing that would just add more RNG-ness to the game, which is always bad.
In my opinion PvP shouldn't be luck, it should be a matter of skill.

[ddarko18]

I guess we have different views of how looting work, I am viewing this as you click the dead corpse select item you want and you get it, not loot as if you killed an enemy monster and it is RNG'd to my friend bill

[Demarrer]

I think that's unfair, why would someone I outplay have the same reward potential I have?

We are talking team scenarios here. So you would have to outplay an entire team of guys, not just one. 1v1 would obviously be different.


This is another thing that would just add more RNG-ness to the game, which is always bad.
In my opinion PvP shouldn't be luck, it should be a matter of skill.

Looting system has skill. A team runs in, works together, kills a guy, loots him. The battle continues. The better players/team is rewarded with the looting.

[Shebee]

Looting system has skill. A team runs in, works together, kills a guy, loots him. The battle continues. The better players/team is rewarded with the looting.
I charge and zerg a lonely guy with my team, great skill.
Or maybe, I'm the sole survivor of a team vs team battle looting up all the dead corpses (my friends get no loot because they died in battle, I'm getting all the profit), then some random guy pops up and kills me having all the loot from say 10 people?
Very skill oriented indeed.

[ddarko18]

ya, if your friends all died then of course its skill oriented, why no mages to res? and if they really are your friends im hoping you got some honor and planning on splitting the loot, otherwise they wont be your friends much longer. See 2 morals here, sharing is caring and always have a mage

[Demarrer]

I charge and zerg a lonely guy with my team, great skill.
Or maybe, I'm the sole survivor of a team vs team battle looting up all the dead corpses (my friends get no loot because they died in battle, I'm getting all the profit), then some random guy pops up and kills me having all the loot from say 10 people?
Very skill oriented indeed.

Why is there a lonely guy? Either A) you killed his team in which case you won the battle, or B) your team lost versus the other team. You were killed because he was better than you.

And to answer your you get all the loot question. It is a guild. Divide the loot evenly, these are TEAM battles.

[Shebee]

ya, if your friends all died then of course its skill oriented, why no mages to res? and if they really are your friends im hoping you got some honor and planning on splitting the loot, otherwise they wont be your friends much longer. See 2 morals here, sharing is caring and always have a mage

Or simple make everyone receive currency, and the problem doesn't persist.

[Demarrer]

ya, if your friends all died then of course its skill oriented, why no mages to res? and if they really are your friends im hoping you got some honor and planning on splitting the loot, otherwise they wont be your friends much longer. See 2 morals here, sharing is caring and always have a mage

You hack my computer and read what I type?

[ddarko18]

sure because banned didnt bring up a HUGE problem with your currency idea

[Demarrer]

Or simple make everyone receive currency, and the problem doesn't persist.

I said you could have a RNG system where the battle starts, and you get items by killing the other team randomly like the mobs work now. THOSE items can be looted throughout the battle.

[Shebee]

Why is there a lonely guy? Either A) you killed his team in which case you won the battle, or B) your team lost versus the other team. You were killed because he was better than you.

And to answer your you get all the loot question. It is a guild. Divide the loot evenly, these are TEAM battles.

So wait a second, your thinking of this like a battleground, similar to wow.
In that case, lets say there is a 5v5 battle going on and whoever wins the battle, starts looting up the dead people.
Okay someone is faster than the others and gets more loot, and loot he probably doesn't need. Great.
How about giving them currency sparing the looting hassle and rewarding the team with items they actually want?

I just think the currency adds a lot more customizability to your character, where as in the looting system I bound to specific loot I receive, and it's pure luck and potentially makes me farm pvp if I'm only after one item.

[Banned]

How about having no rewards and straight up raw PvP. The fact that we can destroy our fellow PL players is enough reason for me to PvP.

[Demarrer]

So wait a second, your thinking of this like a battleground, similar to wow.
In that case, lets say there is a 5v5 battle going on and whoever wins the battle, starts looting up the dead people.
Okay someone is faster than the others and gets more loot, and loot he probably doesn't need. Great.
How about giving them currency sparing the looting hassle and rewarding the team with items they actually want?

I just think the currency adds a lot more customizability to your character, where as in the looting system I bound to specific loot I receive, and it's pure luck and potentially makes me farm pvp if I'm only after one item.

The currency system is flawed, we have already stated that. You don't have to loot items you don't want, hell you don't have to loot anything ever if you don't want to. I am guessing by the time PvP is present there will be an auction has and buy/selling. Loot an item, maybe you don't want it but you can sell or trade it for a pretty penny.

[Demarrer]

How about having no rewards and straight up raw PvP. The fact that we can destroy our fellow PL players is enough reason for me to PvP.

Will HBK and Triple H be present in this RAW PvP?

[ddarko18]

.......wow

[Banned]

.......wow

[Shebee]

The currency system is flawed, we have already stated that. You don't have to loot items you don't want, hell you don't have to loot anything ever if you don't want to. I am guessing by the time PvP is present there will be an auction has and buy/selling. Loot an item, maybe you don't want it but you can sell or trade it for a pretty penny.

I don't see any flaw in a currency system.
A loot system though I see many flaws first of all, it's not as simple, as said it limits or at least complicates character customizability, it's potentially unfair, and it's definitely not good for moral.
I'm guessing you mean a looting system like your idea, in which case I'd lose items in my inventory and gold I have, who would want to pvp?

Oh and please tell me why the point system would be flawed.

[Demarrer]

I don't see any flaw in a currency system.
A loot system though I see many flaws first of all, it's not as simple, as said it limits or at least complicates character customizability, it's potentially unfair, and it's definitely not good for moral.
I'm guessing you mean a looting system like your idea, in which case I'd lose items in my inventory and gold I have, who would want to pvp?

Oh and please tell me why the point system would be flawed.

Banned and I have already said it. I can use two devices and boost my points up regardless of my skill, thus breaking the system.

So basically what you are saying is why would someone want to PvP when their is a risk to it? In my idea you don't have to lose anything, if you enter with nothing. If you happen to get a good item tell your team, and have them help you get out safely.

[Shebee]

Banned and I have already said it. I can use two devices and boost my points up regardless of my skill, thus breaking the system.

So basically what you are saying is why would someone want to PvP when their is a risk to it? In my idea you don't have to lose anything, if you enter with nothing. If you happen to get a good item tell your team, and have them help you get out safely.

So ultimately no one risks anything and PvP is plain stupid and it has no point.
And as for the abuse you mentioned, it wouldn't pay off, more players equals more points thus making it more effective.
Also, it could be easily encountered by rewarding less points exponentially if killing the same players many times in a row.

Still I don't see why the loot system would be superior to a point system.

[ddarko18]

If you are afraid of losing your items then there is no way we could convince you that a loot system is superior to a point system, thats all there is to it.
I just know that there a lot of people that do no share your fear and would much rather loot than deal with a silly point system

[Shebee]

If you are afraid of losing your items then there is no way we could convince you that a loot system is superior to a point system, thats all there is to it.
I just know that there a lot of people that do no share your fear and would much rather loot than deal with a silly point system

I count 2. Yay I'm convinced.
Why would someone enter a PvP zone with items and gold on them if they had an option not to lose it, but potentially gain loot and gold?

[Banned]

So ultimately no one risks anything and PvP is plain stupid and it has no point.
And as for the abuse you mentioned, it wouldn't pay off, more players equals more points thus making it more effective.
Also, it could be easily encountered by rewarding less points exponentially if killing the same players many times in a row.

Still I don't see why the loot system would be superior to a point system.

Video games are stupid, pointless, and I get nothing out of them. But why do I play them? Because they are fun. PvP doesn't need to have rewards to be fun.

[Demarrer]

So ultimately no one risks anything and PvP is plain stupid and it has no point.
And as for the abuse you mentioned, it wouldn't pay off, more players equals more points thus making it more effective.
Also, it could be easily encountered by rewarding less points exponentially if killing the same players many times in a row.

Still I don't see why the loot system would be superior to a point system.

Ok fine, I've got 9 friends that play the game. We make a game, and now we 5v5. One team PURPOSELY loses to give the other team points, and then they reverse roles. This way you can spread out who you kill so the killing over and over deduction wouldn't work.

[Demarrer]

Video games are stupid, pointless, and I get nothing out of them. But why do I play them? Because they are fun. PvP doesn't need to have rewards to be fun.

But it makes for great debate.

[ddarko18]

The thrill of knowing that your items are at risk adds so much more to the battle, i guess you just cant understand that. which is a better and more exciting story?
Man I had this awesome battle, went 1 v 2 and looted some sweet stuff
OR
Man i had this awesome battle and i got 2 points

[ddarko18]

sure you enter with no items, but during the battle by dropping fools you earn some by RNG at which point they are lootable. If we do this silly point system then everyone will use the same items because they can pick and choose the best items, and it will be exactly like WoW where templates for pvp characters are largely the same with same skills and same items. With random loot you are looking at alot more unique possibilities.

[Shebee]

The thrill of knowing that your items are at risk adds so much more to the battle, i guess you just cant understand that. which is a better and more exciting story?
Man I had this awesome battle, went 1 v 2 and looted some sweet stuff
OR
Man i had this awesome battle and i got 2 points

I don't play for excitement, I play for competition, I want to prove I'm the best out there.
And when I face more skilled players and I beat them or work on beating them that's where I get my pleasure.

And yes, I do see your point Demarrer.
Although if you make the loser team to gain some points too, or make losing a game lose some amount of points, that would also make it not worth the while.


sure you enter with no items, but during the battle by dropping fools you earn some by RNG at which point they are lootable. If we do this silly point system then everyone will use the same items because they can pick and choose the best items, and it will be exactly like WoW where templates for pvp characters are largely the same with same skills and same items. With random loot you are looking at alot more unique possibilities.

Ofcourse I want the best items, and eventually it's up to skill.
Dont you get it, RNG is bad, ultimately I'm losing to noobs who cant play just because they had luck on looting some damn corpses.

[Demarrer]

sure you enter with no items, but during the battle by dropping fools you earn some by RNG at which point they are lootable. If we do this silly point system then everyone will use the same items because they can pick and choose the best items, and it will be exactly like WoW where templates for pvp characters are largely the same with same skills and same items. With random loot you are looking at alot more unique possibilities.

QFT, more customizability with looting for this reason.

[ddarko18]

the guy that complains looting wont work because this is a casual game, now says he only plays for competition not for excitement, whose being paradoxical now?

[Demarrer]

I don't play for excitement, I play for competition, I want to prove I'm the best out there.
And when I face more skilled players and I beat them or work on beating them that's where I get my pleasure.

And yes, I do see your point Demarrer.
Although if you make the loser team to gain some points too, or make losing a game lose some amount of points, that would also make it not worth the while.

Team A kills team B until Team A gets the best stuff. Then they flip roles. Trust me, people will do it.

So you don't play for excitement, then why play at all. I thought video games were for fun and exciting?

[ddarko18]

something tells me shebee is team jacob

[Shebee]

ddarko18, this is like the 2nd time you make things up.
I never said that something wouldn't work because this is a casual game.
Also, why would someone queue for a battle like 10-20 times and leave the arena until they face the other team, instead of facing random teams and even if losing all the battles, gaining by far more points.
I don't really see the flaw here.

And as said, I play for competition, excitement comes along, it's like in any competition, you play or compete to be the best, and it is exciting to compete.
If I want excitement I go doing stuff like jump of cliffs or something.

[Banned]

I don't play for excitement, I play for competition, I want to prove I'm the best out there.
And when I face more skilled players and I beat them or work on beating them that's where I get my pleasure.

Point proven. Screw the rewards. Case closed, you can all get the hell outta mah house.

[Banned]

So you don't play for excitement, then why play at all. I thought video games were for fun and exciting?

Point proven AGAIN. Screw the rewards and continue your walk outta mah god dang house.

[Shebee]

Point proven. Screw the rewards. Case closed, you can all get the hell outta mah house.

My point is, I don't want to get defeated by players that I outplay, just because they have better loot they don't deserve.

[Demarrer]

ddarko18, this is like the 2nd time you make things up.
I never said that something wouldn't work because this is a casual game.
Also, why would someone queue for a battle like 10-20 times and leave the arena until they face the other team, instead of facing random teams and even if losing all the battles, gaining by far more points.
I don't really see the flaw here.

And as said, I play for competition, excitement comes along, it's like in any competition, you play or compete to be the best, and it is exciting to compete.
If I want excitement I go doing stuff like jump of cliffs or something.

As the original post says, you join as a party and it keeps you together unless you need to be broken up. So why couldn't all ten of us join a game, then it just splits us up. Boom the end, let the breaking of the point system begin.

[ddarko18]

if you want to do something competitive play basketball or something, jump off a cliff????wtf

[Demarrer]

My point is, I don't want to get defeated by players that I outplay, just because they have better loot they don't deserve.

But you are willing to defeat players by buying better items than them because you play more?

[ddarko18]

Check and mate

[Banned]

if you want to do something competitive play basketball or something, jump off a cliff????wtf

Haha, that has me in tears right now.

[Shebee]

But you are willing to defeat players by buying better items than them because you play more?

Yes, but getting the best rewards doesn't have to be hard, being a casual game and all.
That's when it comes down to skill eventually.

With the loot system though I can lag and not get my best items no matter how long I play or how skilled I am....

[ddarko18]

Woot im a member now! wheres my prize?

[Demarrer]

Yes, but getting the best rewards doesn't have to be hard, being a casual game and all.
That's when it comes down to skill eventually.

With the loot system though I can lag and not get my best items no matter how long I play or how skilled I am....

If you lag in PvP your screwed anyways, regardless of the system. That is the case in any game, casual or not.

With the loot system everyone can be different, it is more CUSTOMIZABLE. With the point system, at some point each match will have everyone wearing the same stuff because it is the best. Where is the customizability in that?

[Flamin]

Every 1000 or so should be changed to every 100 or so. And I still think there should be at least an option to have stakes. I absolutely agree that there should be no potions allowed in pvp or maybe just 3 potions allowed for each player in a pvp. There should be a respec on pvp title/rank. I agree with unlockable items at pvp vendor and how players would spend pvp points/tokens. And I definantly agree that classes should be more survivability without potions. I agree that there should be rounds on short small pvps and no rounds on big long pvps but rather a respawn, and on the respawn there should be a like a 10 second delay.

[Shebee]

If you lag in PvP your screwed anyways, regardless of the system. That is the case in any game, casual or not.

With the loot system everyone can be different, it is more CUSTOMIZABLE. With the point system, at some point each match will have everyone wearing the same stuff because it is the best. Where is the customizability in that?

In the point system you cant lag.
You contribute, you get rewarded.
You loot, you get random **** you don't need you don't get rewarded.

I don't see how the loot system brings more customizability into the game.
You can always have more items from the NPCs etc.. It can give more options, not just specific item sets or so.

[Demarrer]

Every 1000 or so should be changed to every 100 or so. And I still think there should be at least an option to have stakes. I absolutely agree that there should be no potions allowed in pvp or maybe just 3 potions allowed for each player in a pvp. There should be a respec on pvp title/rank. I agree with unlockable items at pvp vendor and how players would spend pvp points/tokens. And I definantly agree that classes should be more survivability without potions. I agree that there should be rounds on short small pvps and no rounds on big long pvps but rather a respawn, and on the respawn there should be a like a 10 second delay.

Potions should have a 3-5 second delay, and you shouldn't be allowed to purchase more while battling. However the point system is flawed like we have said. It is far to easy to boost with friends or secondary accounts to achieve the greater items these vendors sell.

[Flamin]

NO on the kick idea. It's frikin PVP dude.

What if someone is leeching?

[ddarko18]

kill the leecher? then loot his leeching corpse

[Demarrer]

In the point system you cant lag.
You contribute, you get rewarded.
You loot, you get random **** you don't need you don't get rewarded.

I don't see how the loot system brings more customizability into the game.
You can always have more items from the NPCs etc.. It can give more options, not just specific item sets or so.

But why the hell would anyone buy anything other than the best? Everyone would buy the best stuff, so everyone would be the same.

You can't lag in a point system? Is there some secret network that knows " Oh hey this game runs a point system, no lag fellow networks"?

[ddarko18]

ya didnt you know that demarrer? wow never lags cuz its on the point system network

[Shebee]

But why the hell would anyone buy anything other than the best? Everyone would buy the best stuff, so everyone would be the same.

You can't lag in a point system? Is there some secret network that knows " Oh hey this game runs a point system, no lag fellow networks"?

I didn't mean laggy connections I meant to get stuck at a point where I just play and play for one specific item, to get the best items, but I don't get it because I have bad luck because the loot is just random...
And you said less customizability, how exactly does the loot system have more customizability, ultimately there will always be the best items, your argument is total crap.

[Demarrer]

I didn't mean laggy connections I meant to get stuck at a point where I just play and play for one specific item, to get the best items, but I don't get it because I have bad luck because the loot is just random...
And you said less customizability, how exactly does the loot system have more customizability, ultimately there will always be the best items, your argument is total crap.

Once again we revert to cursing because we know that our argument is flawed. Items looted are different, so every person won't have the same things like they would with a point system.

[ddarko18]

how does that not apply to a point system too then? if anything you will lag quicker just cuz you know what item you want and you buy it. after that....um then what?
and the loot is not random, you kill guy with item, you click on his corpse, you take the item

[Shebee]

Once again we revert to cursing because we know that our argument is flawed. Items looted are different, so every person won't have the same things like they would with a point system.
So basically the loot system rewards players unfairly?


how does that not apply to a point system too then? if anything you will lag quicker just cuz you know what item you want and you buy it. after that....um then what?
and the loot is not random, you kill guy with item, you click on his corpse, you take the item

Why would I lag if I get points for participating, and then buy the item I want, how is that considered lagging?
Also, I kill a guy and loot him, but I get some random loot I don't want, how does that make someone not lag?

[Demarrer]

So basically the loot system rewards players unfairly?



Why would I lag if I get points for participating, and then buy the item I want, how is that considered lagging?
Also, I kill a guy and loot him, but I get some random loot I don't want, how does that make someone not lag?

Do you know what lag is? Who said you have to loot everything, let alone anything? Open his corpse and look. If you see nothing you like don't take anything. Oh and how are you getting random loot? A guy has received a specific item, you look at it, if you like it you take it and if not you leave it.

This really isn't a difficult system. How does a loot system reward people unfairly? We fight, I win, I loot you. I really don't see why you cannot understand this.

I could just play your points system and wait for kill shots so i get the points and screw over my teammates, how is that fair? With a looting system it doesn't come down to that, it comes down to more teamwork than individual greediness like the point system would have.

[Shebee]

Do you know what lag is? Who said you have to loot anything, let alone anything? Open his corpse and look. If you see nothing you like don't take anything. Oh and how are you getting random loot? A guy has received a specific item, you look at it, if you like it you take it and if not you leave it.

This really isn't a difficult system. How does a loot system reward people unfairly? We fight, I win, I loot you. I really don't see why you cannot understand this.

I could just play your points system and wait for kill shots so i get the points and screw over my teammates, how is that fair? With a looting system it doesn't come down to that, it comes down to more teamwork than individual greediness like the point system would have.

I cant possibly understand how someone can think that a loot system comes down to fair teamplay or teamwork.
Okay so I got the looting thing maybe a bit wrong here, I thought the loot is randomly generated, but that doesn't change the fact at all.
People will be running around with random items making me get random items, which just leads into unbalanced itemization.
And ultimately to starvation as no one will run around with items in PvP, why would they if they can simply bank their items?

And yes I do understand your message, we fight, win, and probably won't loot anyone, but with luck yes, and I receive either some crappy item that's worthless or something I dont need at all.
Or we could simple fight, win or lose, still get rewarded for participating, and after a couple of games or whatever, receive our fair reward that we can choose. How did you come up with the idea on screwing on team mates in a points system lol.

[Shebee]

Oh and I don't know if you ever actually played a game with a loot system but take Knight Online for example.
It has nothing to do with teamplay, everyone wants to kill someone, lure them to join their team and kill them etc. There is simply no spirit of teamplay, its like a mass chaos zerg frenzy, just kill whatever you see, the lower chances the enemy has the better

[Demarrer]

I cant possibly understand how someone can think that a loot system comes down to fail teamplay or teamwork.
Okay so I got the looting thing maybe a bit wrong here, I thought the loot is randomly generated, but that doesn't change the fact at all.
People will be running around with random items making me get random items, which just leads into unbalanced itemization.
And ultimately to starvation as no one will run around with items in PvP, why would they if they can simply bank their items?

And yes I do understand your message, we fight, win, and probably won't loot anyone, but with luck yes, and I receive either some crappy item that's worthless or something I dont need at all.
Or we could simple fight, win or lose, still get rewarded for participating, and after a couple of games or whatever, receive our fair reward that we can choose. How did you come up with the idea on screwing on team mates in a points system lol.

Points are based off of kills, if i wait for my teammate to get someone low so i can finish him off i get the kill-shot i get the points.

This is how looting works. I will use a 1v1 example. We fight and I kill you. Your body falls to the ground like it does now. I click your body and your inventory opens. I can then choose out of the things you had what i want to loot. I could also ignore your corpse and do nothing.

What do you consider the system now, unbalanced itemization? You get rewards based on randomness. You can't choose what you are going to get majority of the time. When looting the person could either have something good or something bad. Either way it is different from anything anyone else has. A point system, everyone would buy the same thing and everyone would be clones.

[Demarrer]

Oh and I don't know if you ever actually played a game with a loot system but take Knight Online for example.
It has nothing to do with teamplay, everyone wants to kill someone, lure them to join their team and kill them etc. There is simply no spirit of teamplay, its like a mass chaos zerg frenzy, just kill whatever you see, the lower chances the enemy has the better

I have played Darkfall and Ultima Online. Ultima Online has a full loot system, and one of the best PvP systems ever. It was very team oriented. If you role with someone your odds of killing someone is better, and you have a better chance of getting their loot. It is not my fault if the player has no friends in the game and can't trust anyone.

[Banned]

Once again we revert to cursing because we know that our argument is flawed. Items looted are different, so every person won't have the same things like they would with a point system.

Are you blind or something? He didn't even curse.

[Shebee]

Points are based off of kills, if i wait for my teammate to get someone low so i can finish him off i get the kill-shot i get the points.

This is how looting works. I will use a 1v1 example. We fight and I kill you. Your body falls to the ground like it does now. I click your body and your inventory opens. I can then choose out of the things you had what i want to loot. I could also ignore your corpse and do nothing.

What do you consider the system now, unbalanced itemization? You get rewards based on randomness. You can't choose what you are going to get majority of the time. When looting the person could either have something good or something bad. Either way it is different from anything anyone else has. A point system, everyone would buy the same thing and everyone would be clones.

So you use a random all vs all example for the point system but a 1v1 example for the loot system? Oh okay.
The point system shares the same unfairness in that point as the loot system, but the point system could potentially reward for losing as well.
And just from my personal point of view, unbalanced itemization would be in the loot system, I want to achieve better gear, but I can't simply because my enemies carry no loot, or just bad loot I don't need, which ultimately leads to that. Meaning I get rewards like you said, based on randomness, how is this good? It leads to unbalanced itemization.
In the point system however, I get rewarded equally as good as everyone else, instead of receiving random loot directly I get currency that I can use to get the items I want.
I mean, you can create infinite possibilities with the point system simply by adding more items to the vendors, they would all be equal in quality.
And it is overall more balanced and it comes more down to skill as it would in the loot system.
Also, the point system, you can always add rewards. If this is done to the loot system however that just leads into more unbalanced itemization. Let me demonstrate.
Int he point system, I get the best item set currently available, person 2 only gets ½ of the best quality items.
A new tier of items is added, we can both now acquire the best tier of items directly.

In the loot system however, I would have a hard time getting the better tier items, because the mid tear items would still be there, and because of the randomness of the loot it would be hard to achieve.
And I'm not even taking the fact into account that no one would be risking the highest tier of items in PvP anyway.
So still the loot system just doesn't work really.
To make it short, the loot system doesn't award players, maybe in very rare cases.
The loot system does award in every way, and its balanced and fair.

[Demarrer]

So you use a random all vs all example for the point system but a 1v1 example for the loot system? Oh okay.
The point system shares the same unfairness in that point as the loot system, but the point system could potentially reward for losing as well.
And just from my personal point of view, unbalanced itemization would be in the loot system, I want to achieve better gear, but I can't simply because my enemies carry no loot, or just bad loot I don't need, which ultimately leads to that. Meaning I get rewards like you said, based on randomness, how is this good? It leads to unbalanced itemization.
In the point system however, I get rewarded equally as good as everyone else, instead of receiving random loot directly I get currency that I can use to get the items I want.
I mean, you can create infinite possibilities with the point system simply by adding more items to the vendors, they would all be equal in quality.
And it is overall more balanced and it comes more down to skill as it would in the loot system.
Also, the point system, you can always add rewards. If this is done to the loot system however that just leads into more unbalanced itemization. Let me demonstrate.
Int he point system, I get the best item set currently available, person 2 only gets ½ of the best quality items.
A new tier of items is added, we can both now acquire the best tier of items directly.

In the loot system however, I would have a hard time getting the better tier items, because the mid tear items would still be there, and because of the randomness of the loot it would be hard to achieve.
And I'm not even taking the fact into account that no one would be risking the highest tier of items in PvP anyway.
So still the loot system just doesn't work really.

I understand what you are saying but we are looking at this in two different ways. I know the game is casual, but should the best items really be this easy to get like you are saying with your point system? With looting good items are distributed throughout the battle lets say, and it can changes hands throughout the battle. The legendary items should not be easy to obtain, and with the point system they are.

[Shebee]

I understand what you are saying but we are looking at this in two different ways. I know the game is casual, but should the best items really be this easy to get like you are saying with your point system? With looting good items are distributed throughout the battle lets say, and it can changes hands throughout the battle. The legendary items should not be easy to obtain, and with the point system they are.

In the loot system however it's random who gets legendary loot and who not.
Also who would be risking legendary loot anyway?
And you didnt seem to get the point that in the point system everyone gets rewarded, now just the one that does a kill shot, everyone who is involved in the battle gets points, and when you die individually you could possibly get a small amount too.

[Demarrer]

In the loot system however it's random who gets legendary loot and who not.
Also who would be risking legendary loot anyway?
And you didnt seem to get the point that in the point system everyone gets rewarded, now just the one that does a kill shot, everyone who is involved in the battle gets points, and when you die individually you could possibly get a small amount too.

PvP shouldn't be that easy. If you completely suck you shouldn't be rewarded, because then where is the desire to get better? You would receive the loot during the fight, so you wouldn't be able to secure it. Your legendary item or whatever it may be would be for anyones taking. Legendary items would be harder to come by.

[Shebee]

PvP shouldn't be that easy. If you completely suck you shouldn't be rewarded, because then where is the desire to get better? You would receive the loot during the fight, so you wouldn't be able to secure it. Your legendary item or whatever it may be would be for anyones taking. Legendary items would be harder to come by.

Then I don't see why the loot system is better.
It's just as "bad" as the points system, in the loot system it's completely random and very unlikely to get loot, and the point system might be a bit too grindy or easy.
To be honest I don't think there is a real good working system, unless we would completely copy the spirit from UO, or copy arena ratings from wow.

[Demarrer]

Then I don't see why the loot system is better.
It's just as "bad" as the points system, in the loot system it's completely random and very unlikely to get loot, and the point system might be a bit too grindy or easy.
To be honest I don't think there is a real good working system, unless we would completely copy the spirit from UO, or copy arena ratings from wow.

It all depends on how the game progresses in the future, this really isn't possible until we know what is going to be in the game when PvP arrives.

[Banned]

Yeah, your completely right. There is no good reward system, so I suggest we EXCLUDE it. If you want loot, go kick some mob butt. If you want some awesome thrills, go stomp a hoe in PvP. Simple as that.

[Shebee]

Yeah, your completely right. There is no good reward system, so I suggest we EXCLUDE it. If you want loot, go kick some mob butt. If you want some awesome thrills, go stomp a hoe in PvP. Simple as that.

So, we came to the conclusion that we have to wait.
That's also an option banned, but I definitely want some leader-boards.

[Banned]

Definately with you on the leader-boards. That could be another incentive to PvP. And who doesn't like to have proof of being better then everyone else :p.

[Demarrer]

So, we came to the conclusion that we have to wait.
That's also an option banned, but I definitely want some leader-boards.

We do have to wait, I was just giving ideas.

Leader-boards are just ego boosters for people. I don't see a problem with them being implemented, but I think it would be lame if that was the only reward for PvP.

[Flamin]

But why the hell would anyone buy anything other than the best? Everyone would buy the best stuff, so everyone would be the same.

Better stuff would cost more points! and the best stuff would take like a year of pvping to get. And ifyou even read the actual thread, it says that players would unlock items to buy according to their pvp rank. And also several other reasons to list here too.

[Banned]

We do have to wait, I was just giving ideas.

Leader-boards are just ego boosters for people. I don't see a problem with them being implemented, but I think it would be lame if that was the only reward for PvP.

Yeah whatever. As if having a large kill count wasn't an ego booster.

[Flamin]

We do have to wait, I was just giving ideas.

Leader-boards are just ego boosters for people. I don't see a problem with them being implemented, but I think it would be lame if that was the only reward for PvP.

I agree, but reading over this whole discussion (it took me 3 hours) I concluded that either shebee is right, or both of you are right, so why not have all 4 ideas for pvp rewards? Leaderboards, point system, and looting system, and staking system. All of these could be put into the game.

[Splurd]

Yeah, your completely right. There is no good reward system, so I suggest we EXCLUDE it. If you want loot, go kick some mob butt. If you want some awesome thrills, go stomp a hoe in PvP. Simple as that.

Quoted for the truth.

You'll never make a system that makes everyone happy. PVP is cruel and harsh and the losers will be unhappy.
Of course, if I win, I'd be like OMG YEAH LETS HAVE CORPSE LOOTING AND HUMPING!
But if I lose, OMG HE LOOTED ME! and did unmentionable things! omg this is unfair! Devs you suck!

Which is why alot of PVP games just go with the safer carebear system where you dont lose anything. Alot less number of unhappy people

[Flamin]

Quoted for the truth.

You'll never make a system that makes everyone happy. PVP is cruel and harsh and the losers will be unhappy.
Of course, if I win, I'd be like OMG YEAH LETS HAVE CORPSE LOOTING AND HUMPING!
But if I lose, OMG HE LOOTED ME! and did unmentionable things! omg this is unfair! Devs you suck!

Which is why alot of PVP games just go with the safer carebear system where you dont lose anything. Alot less number of unhappy people

Yep, we should there should be a point system, leaderboards, and stake system. By the way anyone who has read all the replys to this thread like I have, is amazing.

[Splurd]

its only a 100 post topic.

[Flamin]

On all pvp topics it's more like a 300 or 400 post topic.

[Prest87]

I don't want the best gear in the game to be easy to get being the best should be a challenge which few actually do complete getting the best gear shouldn't be so easy. The point system allows u to just boost for the best gear. Also if u get the best gear by loot that's impressive but by points it seems to not be a big deal because everybody else will have it but the leaderboard is a great idea!!!!

[Flamin]

Ya but with the point system it will take about a year to earn enough points to buy the best item, and then the devs could add more items. And it would take another year to get the best item. And so on and so on, this way everybody won't have the same items, because there would be new items coming out frequently.

[Shebee]

Quoted for the truth.

You'll never make a system that makes everyone happy. PVP is cruel and harsh and the losers will be unhappy.
Of course, if I win, I'd be like OMG YEAH LETS HAVE CORPSE LOOTING AND HUMPING!
But if I lose, OMG HE LOOTED ME! and did unmentionable things! omg this is unfair! Devs you suck!

Which is why alot of PVP games just go with the safer carebear system where you dont lose anything. Alot less number of unhappy people
I don't really see the point why a point system is carebearish.
The loot system would be just as carebearish as probably everyone would be running with empty inventories...

And there are systems that make everyone happy, one which (I hate to say this) would be WoW, I don't know about the current PvP systems of aoc or any other game in detail so I can't say, but wows pvp system which is a in depth designed point system rewards casual gamers with medium good loot, and the best pvp loot for only people who are skilled.
They have combined arena ratings (for skill measuring) with the point system though. Which is why it works so good, bad players simply aren't rewarded with the best loot if they aren't skilled enough to get to high ratings in the arena.

[Demarrer]

I don't really see the point why a point system is carebearish.
The loot system would be just as carebearish as probably everyone would be running with empty inventories...

And there are systems that make everyone happy, one which (I hate to say this) would be WoW, I don't know about the current PvP systems of aoc or any other game in detail so I can't say, but wows pvp system which is a in depth designed point system rewards casual gamers with medium good loot, and the best pvp loot for only people who are skilled.
They have combined arena ratings (for skill measuring) with the point system though. Which is why it works so good, bad players simply aren't rewarded with the best loot if they aren't skilled enough to get to high ratings in the arena.

Weren't you the one who asked ddarko to look up carebear? How in the world is a loot system carebearish? Like I said before, if you did a 5v5 arena type thing like the OP said, you could be rewarded items randomly throughout the battles. That would work kind of like how you get items now when fighting mobs, only you would be fighting people. THOSE items would then be lootable if you were killed in battle, but not the items you actually farmed for in non PvP areas. This makes it 100% fair for anyone to pick up and have a chance to get a good item, while still having the better people have better chances of winning and looting the enemies.

With the point system, it is flawed like I have said numerous times. Boosting is just way to simple in a point system. Remember this is a PHONE game, so the depth of the point system would not be as great as a game like WoW has. The point system has a vendor if I understand this right that you buy select items with using the points you have accumulated during your PvP experiences. So you are saying that A) Whoever plays more has more points, so thus has the better equipment. B) Everyone who is good will have the same gear, because they all have the most points. C) A new player, or bad player stands absolutely no chance against the more hardcore players because they won't have the items like the hardcore players have.

A point system rewards you for playing more, and making the game much more item based than skill based. A loot system gives everyone a chance to get an item, and adds depth to PvP.

[Flamin]

Has anyone thought of having a stake system instead of a loot system? And has anyone thought of actually trying out all the systems first to see which one is best?

[Caspi]

Has anyone thought of having a stake system instead of a loot system? And has anyone thought of actually trying out all the systems first to see which one is best?

And how do you expect to do that? A pc mmo is very different from an iPhone mmo. Or do you intend to program all the looting systems yourself into a few modded versions of PL? Gl!

[SuLLy]

In terms of PvP, just a couple of suggestions from an experienced MMORPG pvp player:

1. Make healer achievements recognizable - if you come out with "leader boards" something should be implemented (wins, winning %?, total amount healed? etc.) to make playing a healer desirable, obviously if "kills" are the only stat tracked, healers will get no love... Limit health potions

2. PvP Rewards: Future updates should include something of substance for PvP achievements, to keep players wanting to continue PvPing "end game", whether this be in the form of PvP Gear, special PvP abilities (obtained by achieving X goal), PvP titles/rankings - all of these things can go a long way in providing incentives for players to want to keep coming back.

3. Arena size: I currently see that 3v3 and 5v5 are mentioned in the proposed format, please also include 2v2 - I'm not sure if the schematics for version 1.2 will change the lag/frame rate situation to make it more desirable/sustainable for games with 6-10 people in them (3v3, 5v5), but currently just leveling with 5 people total in a game creates significant drops in frame rate, add to it that PvP scenarios will likely produce a more "active" game atmosphere and that could produce a very undesirable experience.

Thanks,

SuLLy

[Flamin]

I think this needs to be moved to the pvp forum.

[silentdestiny]

Bringing back a dead thread woohoo! OHYA! Party!