Lifethief weapon bugged? Comparion between lifethief and heartseeker

[carni91]

Agile heeartseekers
20988

Agile lifethief
20989

I misspelled the title.... :mad:

Is the Lifethief weapon glitched or is it meant to do so much damage, I own a pair of Agile lifethief of Potency (ALP) and a Pair of Agile Heartseekers of Tactics (AHT) , the ALP does anywere from 100-300 damage easily through normal attacks while the AHT does about 50-70 damage.

Comparison of ALP and AHT
=Constants=
Armour
Pet (Malison) Malison becomes a variable when physically comparing damage.

ALP:
DEX: 217
Bonus DMG: 208%
Critical: 11.43%
Damage: 161.9
Proc: Charged attack heals 15% of damage done.

AHT:
DEX:217
Bonus DMG: 208%
Critical: 12.91%
Damage: 180.4
Proc: Chance to cause target to bleed.

Number of attacks in 30 seconds

ALP1 : 42
ALP2 : 40
ALP3 : 41
Average: 41, 1.367~ aps
15secALP: 19

AHT1 : 47
AHT2 : 49
AHT3 : 47
Average: 47.67, 1.589~ aps
15secAHT: 26


Synopsys

It is obvious that the AHT are far superior in terms of DPS when compared through the stats screen. On the actual field this is erroneous as I am easily able to out DPS my AHT without even using skills.

The ALP seems to hit between 60-350~ randomly, so I assume it follows a different damage formula, probably an error. My assumption is that the ALP follows this simple formula (Damage= Damage x Bonus damage) which mine is, without Malison her damage got in the way, 153x198 which is 302.94. Any of these random hits can be critted, setting the ALP max damage to 600-700+. The ALP, curiously enough, does not calculate damage like so when calculating charged attacks, for me it does about 170-190 with an extra damage marker doing 15-19 damage, the extra damage marker being the amount of health healed. Also its healing effect is only calculated with normal charged attacks, not skill charged attacks.
This is 100% assumed the way they calculate damage is more than likely more complicated than what I make it seem.

The AHT does a constant 50-70 damage with my gear and no Malison and critting up to 121. When compared together the ALP outdps the AHT even without critting. The AHT are slightly faster than the ALP.

So either the AHT is bugged where it doesnt follow a correct damage formula, which could be the true damage formula for characters, or the ALP follows a bugged overpowered formula. In my personal opinion what the ALP is doing all weapons should do, unless it was the devs intention for it to do so meaning that the ALP has a hidden proc and with that in mind I would encourage all of you to find other weapons with hidden procs, of course this is not dev confirmed so dont blame me if you spend all your money buying legendaries.

On a side note when comparing these two weapons I noticed that skill damage is not calculated with weapon damage, well if it is the damage added is the minimum damage of the weapons. With both the ALP and AHT my nox shot non crit was like 200-300.

I personally choose to use the ALP after doing this small research but I do not encourage it if you are squishy or cannot mediate your aggro.

IF YOU USE CHOOSE TO USE THE ALP YOU WILL PULL ALOT OF AGGRO AND KILL YOURSELF IF YOU DO NOT MANAGE YOURSELF.

[primaeva]

Quick question, since you own both, could you confirm that the attack speed is the same? I'm about to buy either one. Thanks!

[Cashews]

I've heard about this before and the explanation was that heartseekers are daggers and thus hit more often resulting in a lower dph. Lifethiefs are swords and hit less often resulting in higher dph. Don't quote me on that but that's what the explanation was.

[carni91]

Right now off the top of my head they do have the same attack speed, but I forgot to test their attack speeds and I am trying to log in right now but can't. Whenever I manage to login I will confirm this for you.

[Smurfo]

I also own both and find the lifethief both quicker and more damage dealing than heartseekers

[carni91]

So I added my aps test on the main post, and the AHT are only about 14% quicker than the ALP. The fact that the AHT are quicker does not even come close to compensating for the brutal damage the ALP can do.

[Godkiu]

Somebody has already mentioned it and reported to the dev

I don't think the attack speed is that much of a difference

Lifethief deals much more damage than heartseeker

I sold my brutality and I am using lifethief right now.

[primaeva]

Well, I got a lifethief, and am hitting like a truck. My sorc has 185 damage and hits for 50-- my rogue has 145 and hits for 200? Huh. Time to test..

[nenjih]

ah well if it's a bug i guess it'll be fixed soon and we'll be back to using heartseekers

[carni91]

Yea which kinda sucks.

[VVoe]

CONFIRMED!

I have both weapons. Level 16 lifethief and heartseeker.
I'm using Potency and WOW there's a huge difference.

On Jarl Elite, I do 50 damage constant with Heartseek
but with lifethief I'm hitting much past 200
REGULAR HITS

With skills like Aim Shot, the damage seem to be the same with Heartseek doing more.
I think its just as you say, regular hits only for me

[ShadowGunX]

well skill dmg r same coz their bonus dmg % r same (208% on both weapon) it doesnt depend upon d weapon dmg (also called base dmg)

[mike1298]

Skill damage is lower with life equipped. Equip both and look at the skill screen.

[primaeva]

For reference, Flamestrike hits about as hard as a 1.5k Stormcaller of Brutality, but at almost TWICE the attack speed. The display DPS of the two are worlds apart, however. Attack speed ties in somewhere here in the equation-- but as for whether it's the weapon that's bugged or the stat screen, we don't know.

[Reggin]

They fixed this. No more overpowered melee rogues!

[primaeva]

It is? I noticed no difference. D:

[Duflie]

They fixed this. No more overpowered melee rogues!

My rogue still randomly hit 300 with the lifetheifs

[Kenoon]

Not fixed yet.

[Tuik]

Yep. My level 15 lifethief outdamages the level 16 heartseekers without skills. Honestly, though, rogues should be doing 200-ish damage normal hits with such expensive weapons. It's amazingly stupid you invest all your stats into dex, run with dex equipment and 120+ damage and the strongest weapon in game and there's no difference in damage between that and another weapon that costs you 2k.

[Samhayne]

Hey guys,

In looking into this with our Design Team, you're kind of comparing apples to oranges on this one.

You're comparing a weapon that does bonus Damage to a weapon that has 3 stat modifiers instead. Granted the bonus damage of weapons might be something that could use some further balance. However, some weapons are just going to be better than others.

[wsalew]

Hey guys,

In looking into this with our Design Team, you're kind of comparing apples to oranges on this one.

You're comparing a weapon that does bonus Damage to a weapon that has 3 stat modifiers instead. Granted the bonus damage of weapons might be something that could use some further balance. However, some weapons are just going to be better than others.

Maybe, but both weapons in statistics gave u some damage. The heartseekers which gave me higher damage (on statistics) and also +dexterity (which in rogue mean more damage), made lower damage then weapon with lower damage and with lower dexterity. I agree that some weapons are just simply better. But in this case, better statistic weapon doesnt mean higher damage (even if its in statistic higher damage). in weapon statistic, heartseekers gave me +10% Bonus damage but normal damage the have 77.9. So again, how its possible that weapon with lower damage (not bonus) in this case lifethieves when u fighting gave me higher damage then heartseekers? I just dont understand. With equipped heartseekers my statistics normal damage is 188.5 . But on field, its around 50-100. With lifethieves is higher than 200. I dont think that we mixing apples and oranges, because we talking about "damage statistics" not bonus damage. Or i just wrong understand that. Higher dexterity, higher value damage but lower damage when fighting. Just didnt get it. Or you just trying to tell me that 70.9 damage and +21 dexterity which heartseekers gave me on statistics = 50-100 damage on field? So what with mine 188.5 damage and 208% Bonus damage. Where are they in battle??? And with lifethiefs, all smaller statistic values on dexterity and smaller damage, in battle actually i doing higher damage 200-300. I just dont get the maths then.

Cheers :)

[Tuik]

Hey guys,

In looking into this with our Design Team, you're kind of comparing apples to oranges on this one.

You're comparing a weapon that does bonus Damage to a weapon that has 3 stat modifiers instead. Granted the bonus damage of weapons might be something that could use some further balance. However, some weapons are just going to be better than others.

The thing here is, honestly, that Lifethief is stronger due to its random high damage hits and Heartseekers should be as strong or even stronger. I have no idea how the damage is calculated for the two but I'm pretty sure a rogue with such setup should be hitting for more than 50-60 damage.

[Aalina]

i also got got both agile lifethief of potency and might heartseekers of tactics ( not that great ), they allmost got the same dmg i only got +1 dmg or something with ALP but find heartseekers more usefull cuz simply they are visibly faster :). ALP usefull only when going solo kraag or some place where u have to fight many enemies all by urself so that lifesteal actualy count. Conclusion: Heartseekers are better dps and more usefull when elite and soon pvp ;). ALP are like solo-farming weapon.

[Bless]

Wow first time i heard peeps complaining about a GOOD thing, jut buy a life n enjoy ;)

[primaeva]

i also got got both agile lifethief of potency and might heartseekers of tactics ( not that great ), they allmost got the same dmg i only got +1 dmg or something with ALP but find heartseekers more usefull cuz simply they are visibly faster :). ALP usefull only when going solo kraag or some place where u have to fight many enemies all by urself so that lifesteal actualy count. Conclusion: Heartseekers are better dps and more usefull when elite and soon pvp ;). ALP are like solo-farming weapon.

Well, I outright refute this claim-- the ALPs are better for any situation simply because hitting for 3-5 times as hard matters more than attacking twice as fast (and it isn't TWICE the attack speed, I'm giving it leeway here).

And I have screenshots to back up my claim.

The current situation is the way it is because you have people who do not read the forums and trust paperdoll DPS wholly that make AHB about 5-10 times the price of a ALP. But hey, I'm going to use what I think is superior and so will you. Only a few days to patch anyway. It won't matter soon enough.

[Tuik]

^ There's a chance the Lifethief will still outdamage level 21 weapons given it's random but frequent high damage hits. Better off keeping the weapon just to be safe :D

[denzel95]

i use lifethief weapon always outaggro the tankers in elite and end up dying, i guess i'll stick to heartseeker

[Tuik]

i use lifethief weapon always outaggro the tankers in elite and end up dying, i guess i'll stick to heartseeker

Haven't noticed that...I do sometimes get Jarl target me but that's not much of a problem. I prefer going alone anyway so I don't have to rely on terrible players :D

[ryantat]

I was very happy when i bought Agile Heart Seeker of tactics and then I was sad when I read this post.

I tried to buy Lifethief for testing right now. The result that i disappointed with this post or they fixed the bug? I don't know.

Actually, the Heartseeker with the same level with Lifethief make more damage, more critical than Lifethief. My damage is 170 and 297 dps make critical 800 with Airm shot using Heartseeker, and Lifethief is slower and less damage than Heartseeker

So, where is the bugs on Lifethief? I didn't see, please anyone have any answers?

[iluvataris]

The bug was fixed long ago.

[ryantat]

thanks for your answer :)

[iluvataris]

Np : )