Founders Helm is a unfair advantage

[Seminole]

Don't want to beat on a dead horse but, to put it bluntly, its unfair. Its a unfair advantage in late level pvp, and lower level pvp. Its like an extra ring. Especially now that vanity bonus is gone for vanity slot. If you want to show off that you are a founders iis completely fine, sts keep the vanity but take off the bonus. Lets take a inside look into the Founders helm Dilemma.

The Cause:
Founders helm vanity has caused many people to sell/buy their founders account for money. So basically those who are breaking sts rules are getting an advantage in pvp. This is not what founders was intended for. It has caused endless debate in-game and controversy in tournaments. It has caused turmoil amongst all players especially for lower-levels. It has caused people to brag and even make founders only guilds. It has caused many to look the same. Founders helm is STASHABLE. Which allows the user to switch it out between all their toons, giving an advantage to every toon they possess and not their main char in which they first created the account with.

End level Stats:
Although 5 damage 5 armor 5 dps may seem like nothing, this is simply not the case. Combine 5 damage with a crit, it turns into 10 damage. Mages crit 100 percent of the time when fully buffed. With 10 spell attacks, you are doing an extra 100 damage. Now consider 5 armor. This 5 armor takes into effect immediately even before a crit. Causing up to 100 damage less when you consider end-level crit with every 10 attacks. Now consider 5 dps. Add crit to that dps. With every 10 attacks in dps you are doing an additional 100 damage. This is the issue we are dealing with in end-level pvp. Final result is you are looking at a total of an additional 300 damage/damage saved in a normal encounter in late level pvp. I wont even discuss early level pvp because as we all know founders helm is more of a nuisance creating even more of a advantage to the user

The fake people:
I can assure you people will read this thread, and want to act like a total tough guy claiming it doesnt make a difference, or they can beat founders, or how to get over it, or how they dont care blah blah blah. Well im not over it, and neither is a majority of players.We have to consider the facts at hand, which is without a dought founders helm is a unfair advantage at all levels of pvp. The other people against this thread that will disagree are those who have founders. Rightly so, they want to keep the bonus, so they will claim how they never wear the helm when in actuality they do. Time has passed and people stopped complaining, the founders people were happy. Until again when they have to defend their bonus stats.

Reality:
If we are to reward people with an advantage in pvp, why not reward those in leaderboards with the same advantage? Why not reward those who have spent more time in PL (600 hours+)? Why not reward those who have spent more plat then anyone else.(When i say reward I mean reward in a pvp vanity bonus, not some useless statless vanity gear) I dont see why this is only an exclusive item for those who merely happened to make an PL account. This type of logic only puts the rest of us behind. There are others who have put in more dedication, time and commitment then founders players, yet recieve nothing in return as far as pvp advantage. There is also many who have a founders but never created an account at the deadline. How did this happen? What is going on here sts? I believe this is a small step in balancing all levels of PVP.

Conclusion:
So this is my story and im sticking to it. If anything I feel better now that I vented, but I really hope a change is near. I hope for everyone to have the same oppurtunity in low level pvp and late level pvp. Yes this is a dead topic, but it is a dead topic in which EVERYONE is effected. It is a topic in which many of us feel left out and unappreciated. I find founders helm to be unjustifiable and a setback to PL.Since STS is now promoting the idea of "nomore bonuses for vanities", I think now is a better time then ever to bring this situation to the table and find a solution.

[Noodleleg]

OP-ness is what makes PvP fun XD! Don't you like challenges ^_^?

[Artemis]

This has been said Soooooooooooooooooo many times. Nothing will happen. Sorrrry. I don't even have a founders.

[Seminole]

This has been said Soooooooooooooooooo many times. Nothing will happen. Sorrrry. I don't even have a founders.

Add one more time to sooooooo many :)

[Artemis]

Good luck though! Maybe this time it will work.

[Seminole]

Good luck though! Maybe this time it will work.

Sometimes its good to vent, practicing on my writing skills anyway:)

[airslash]

I hope they give out a "reward" for those who spent allot of time pvping ..
OR
a reward for the amount of plat you spent

[Kixxler]

Nerfing Founder's Helms, forgotten bows, etc.
Those are all empty dreams

[Artemis]

I don't even play STS games anymore :p After 2 years they just don't do it for me anymore.

[Waug]

Combine 5 damage with a crit, it turns into 10 damage

Mis-conception, And wrong.

As far as founder bonus is concern, as you said it's nothing compared to what we faced, when started pvp lol, a full elite level cap vanities +55hp, +15 armor and many more.

[airslash]

The founders helm is a extremely beneficial "helm" to have in low lvl pvp. Why? because even little stats like 5 damage and 5 armor can have a big difference when the only skills you have are stomp, sms, vengeful (l15 pvp) you know what I mean. Yes, in endgame the extra 5 damage is hardly needed but when you combine the helm w/ a ring at low lvl pvp.. thats an unfair advantage. What I want to happen is that Sts give out an "elite" vanity for those who have either .. spent large amounts of money on plat OR have kills that can give you a vanity each time. (ex: 5000 kills "helm" 10000 kills :"shield" 15000 kills: "armor") To make this fair, the ones who GET the vanities should have a character in the 71-76 regen. Why? In order to stop low lvl pvpers who just started get farmed OR farm those with less experience. This is just my opinion, but I know that some people out there wish the same as I do.
Also, I also started pl in 2010 and missed the founders helm by 2 months. Yet, I believe that I have spent more time and dedication to this game than some of those who have the founders helm. Evidence of my dedication? I have the (antenna) vanities given out by droid (that ran around town), i have the frozen crown, I have the founders shield, my pve and pvp kills are also pretty high IMO.

[Seminole]

Mis-conception, And wrong.

As far as founder bonus is concern, as you said it's nothing compared to what we faced, when started pvp lol, a full elite level cap vanities +55hp, +15 armor and many more.

Okay this is in noway a mis-conception. 5 damage is 5 damage. With a crit it is 10 damage. No matter how you look at it. With a crit, a normal founders helm attack ill do 10 damage more then a normal attack without founders. Yes their were elite vanities before but at least you were able to work at it to get your own elite vanity. For low level pvp compare damage(between founders and non founders) and you will see an average of extra 6-9 extra damage PER ATTACK. Thanks to crit.

[Otukura]

balance went out the window during nuri's.

i wouldn't waste your time campaigning for something that they don't care about

[Waug]

Okay this is in noway a mis-conception. 5 damage is 5 damage. With a crit it is 10 damage.

oh boy, better learn rather arguing, crit is % chance of critically hitting an enemy.

[Otukura]

oh boy, better learn rather arguing, crit is % chance of critically hitting an enemy.

crit is 100.

[Seminole]

oh boy, better learn rather arguing, crit is % chance of critically hitting an enemy.

If you read anything in my article you will see what I wrote. At end-level pvp you almost ALWAYS crit. A Mage will ALWAYS CRIT. Doubling the damage dealt with spells and normal Dps(damage per second). This does not include the armor bonus.

[Seminole]

balance went out the window during nuri's.

i wouldn't waste your time campaigning for something that they don't care about

Not really campaigning but giving out one last shot of hope and venting my frustration in hopes of a Dev reading this. Hopefully they act, its worth one last try.

[razerfingers]

GG

Sent using blood on a bathroom wall

[vle_hoang]

Bille gates' Rules of Life
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_bill_gates_speech.htm

Rule number 1: Life is not fair -- get used to it!

[Waug]

At end-level pvp you almost ALWAYS crit. A Mage will ALWAYS CRIT. Doubling the damage dealt with spells
Okay, but in anyway that does not lead you to this -

Okay this is in noway a mis-conception. 5 damage is 5 damage. With a crit it is 10 damage.
or to this-

Combine 5 damage with a crit, it turns into 10 damage

[Seminole]

Bille gates' Rules of Life
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_bill_gates_speech.htm

Rule number 1: Life is not fair -- get used to it!

Did Billie gates make this game?

[Jcyee]

as much as we complain about this, it will never change...

[vle_hoang]

Did Billie gates make this game?

Who care, just need you got to know that life is unfair, dont need to cry about it. Crying like a little baby wont get devs remove/change stats from founder helm.

Just to let you know that i dont own a founder and im still enjoying playing.

[Seminole]

Who care, just need you got to know that life is unfair, dont need to cry about it. Crying like a little baby wont get devs remove/change stats from founder helm.

Okay first off I'm not crying like a baby, I wrote a construtive post filled with facts, opinions and issues open for debate. Isnt that what these forums are for? The only answer you can come up with is "Life not fair deal with it".

Instead why not write something constructive about why you think Founders bonus should stay(other then you have one and you want to keep the bonus). You are not contributiing at all to either side of this debate but instead giving a childish trolish answer. Since we are doing quotes here is my quote

"Yes life isnt fair, but it doesnt mean this game can't be fair." Seminole

P.S. I hope you are never given the answer "life isnt fair deal with it." Could you imagine this answer after being robbed, losing someone, etc. Its a very irresponisble, unconstructive, disgusting comment in which adds nothing but hostility.

[vle_hoang]

Okay first off I'm not crying like a baby, I wrote a construtive post filled with facts, opinions and issues open for debate. Isnt that what these forums are for? The only answer you can come up with is "Life not fair deal with it".

Instead why not write something constructive about why you think Founders bonus should stay(other then you have one and you want to keep the bonus). You are not contributiing at all to either side of this debate but instead giving a childish trolish answer. Since we are doing quotes here is my quote

"Yes life isnt fair, but it doesnt mean this game can't be fair." Seminole

P.S. I hope you are never given the answer "life isnt fair deal with it." Could you imagine this answer after being robbed, losing someone, etc. Its a very irresponisble, unconstructive, disgusting comment in which adds nothing but hostility.

Lol dont get mad, this is a game. Lemme tell you something, search in the forum how many thread complaining about founder have been made. This matter have been discuting idk how many time but what end does it come to? Nothing. STS wont give a **** about it. If you know so (after reading ur thread), why are u bothering making a new one to get it to no where? I bet thats because you got own in pvp vs someone with founder helm and get mad? Then come here to complain about it, and i also think that if you got a founder helm, this thread wont be there for me to made my "childish trollish answer".

[Riccits]

oh cool, another complain thread about founders helm...

[Seminole]

Lol dont get mad, this is a game. Lemme tell you something, search in the forum how many thread complaining about founder have been made. This matter have been discuting idk how many time but what end does it come to? Nothing. STS wont give a **** about it. If you know so (after reading ur thread), why are u bothering making a new one to get it to no where? I bet thats because you got own in pvp vs someone with founder helm and get mad? Then come here to complain about it, and i also think that if you got a founder helm, this thread wont be there for me to made my "childish trollish answer".

Not mad, at all. I only gave you an answer that I felt was deserving of your response. I am looking for a constructive thread seeing both sides of the argument. After all, this is what forums are about. Yes, it has been brought up before, and it needs to be brought up now. You telling me that its been brought up so many times only strenghtens my argument that more people are effected by the bonus. Btw yes, your answer was not a valid reason other then a trolish remark lol as well as your last post. Im looking for valid constructive points if you are "pro" founders. You telling me I got owned by a founders, im a crybaby, or im a mad noob only shows immaturity, a trait a founders veteran should not be. Just remember my billie gates comeback quote lol....

"Yes life isnt fair, but it doesnt mean this game cant be fair." Seminole

[Seminole]

oh cool, another complain thread about founders helm...

Seeing that you are a "founders" this is a typical response:)

[vle_hoang]

Not mad, at all. I only gave you an answer that I felt was deserving of your response. I am looking for a constructive thread seeing both sides of the argument. After all, this is what forums are about. Yes, it has been brought up before, and it needs to be brought up now. You telling me that its been brought up so many times only strenghtens my argument that more people are effected by the bonus. Btw yes, your answer was not a valid reason other then a trolish remark lol as well as your last post. Im looking for valid constructive points if you are "pro" founders. You telling me I got owned by a founders, im a crybaby, or im a mad noob only shows immaturity, a trait a founders veteran should not be. Just remember my billie gates comeback quote lol....

"Yes life isnt fair, but it doesnt mean this game cant be fair." Seminole

If you know thats it has been brought up alot of time before and the result will always be the same, why dont you just accept it? all your arguments have been mentioned in other threads, why dont you go there and read all the comments people made? Idk, but if this thread is the first thread complaining about founder, i wont be making comment like i did, but you are making a Thread that it has been made like hundreds time already.

Btw, you want this game to be fair? would it be fair if STS take bonus off founder helm for those who own one? I guess not, since they are playing this game since its start they deserved something unique for their loyalty. You want to take off bonus on founder helm, it will be fair for you but wont for people who own one. Lemme take an exemple: Currently the lvl cap is 76 rite? lets say a new player join PL and make it to 76 and got only 1 elite shield for getting to lvl cap, so he/she cant have the elite rings since you need atleast 2 elites items to get it, then he/she will go on forum crying its unfair, and want STS to do somethings like taking off all elite rings because its unfair because the ring gives a huge boost in pvp , will STS do it?

Fact: You want to take off bonus of founders because you dont have one, and you said its unfair. Idk what kind of behavior is it?

[Seminole]

If you know thats it has been brought up alot of time before and the result will always be the same, why dont you just accept it? all your arguments have been mentioned in other threads, why dont you go there and read all the comments people made? Idk, but if this thread is the first thread complaining about founder, i wont be making comment like i did, but you are making a Thread that it has been made like hundreds time already.

Btw, you want this game to be fair? would it be fair if STS take bonus off founder helm for those who own one? I guess not, since they are playing this game since its start they deserved something unique for their loyalty. You want to take off bonus on founder helm, it will be fair for you but wont for people who own one. Lemme take an exemple: Currently the lvl cap is 76 rite? lets say a new player join PL and make it to 76 and got only 1 elite shield for getting to lvl cap, so he/she cant have the elite rings since you need atleast 2 elites items to get it, then he/she will go on forum crying its unfair, and want STS to do somethings like taking off all elite rings because its unfair because the ring gives a huge boost in pvp , will STS do it?

Fact: You want to take off bonus of founders because you dont have one, and you said its unfair. Idk what kind of behavior is it?

While you make a logic point about the vanity bonus keep in mind, that new player will have the oppurtunity to recieve the vanity bonus next level cap. Therefore making him up to par with the other players. While in the founders vanity helm bonus situation, we dont have the oppurtunity.

IMHO I think having a unique item such as the founders is awesome enough without a bonus. So yes it would be fair to them. After all, isnt that what techno is promoting? No more vanity with bonuses? Since it was done to our dragon vanities and elite vanity I think it should be done to founders as well. Do to one you must do to all!

Like i said, being that it has been brought up so many times before, only strengthens my argument that it is effecting everyone. I bring it up now today because I can bring more logical points to the table. I.E Techno promoting th fact that their should be no more bonuses with vanities.

[vle_hoang]

While you make a logic point about the vanity bonus keep in mind, that new player will have the oppurtunity to recieve the vanity bonus next level cap. Therefore making him up to par with the other players. While in the founders vanity helm bonus, we dont have the oppurtunity.

Thats because i took an exemple of lvl 76 cap, just think of lvl 100 cap (i've read somewhere that PL's max level is 100) and some new player join the game at that cap.

Even they have oppurtunity to get the rings at the next lvl caps, but old players will get something too at their 3rd/4th cap so old players will always get an advantage over newly join.

[Seminole]

Thats because i took an exemple of lvl 76 cap, just think of lvl 100 cap (i've read somewhere that PL's max level is 100) and some new player join the game at that cap.

Even they have oppurtunity to get the rings at the next lvl caps, but old players will get something too at their 3rd/4th cap so old players will always get an advantage over newly join.

Wow, 100 cap? Thats a long way away, but im sure PL ill come up with ways for new players to get the ring. So why not founders as well? Since STS is now promoting "no more bonuses for all vanity", Its time to make the change. You bring up good points I must say, however Im still in favor of nomore vanity bonuses 100%

[Yich]

Okay, but in anyway that does not lead you to this -

or to this-


Wow, 100 cap? Thats a long way away, but im sure PL ill come up with ways for new players to get the ring. So why not founders as well? Since STS is now promoting "no more bonuses for all vanity", Its time to make the change. You bring up good points I must say, however Im still in favor of nomore vanity bonuses 100%

Looooool Im not even a founder and I find this annoying. What, did bous beat you so bad at 15 that you need to make a thread over it? Looooool, there are bigger problems id prefer STS take care of rather than a measly 5 damage and armor, and I do low level as well so dont act like I have no clue.

[Seminole]

Looooool Im not even a founder and I find this annoying. What, did bous beat you so bad at 15 that you need to make a thread over it? Looooool, there are bigger problems id prefer STS take care of rather than a measly 5 damage and armor, and I do low level as well so dont act like I have no clue.

Not sure who bous is. Also not sure what you find annoying in that i am mearly having a discussion with someone else. Not sure your gameplan here, maybe you want to flame so that this thread will be closed? Are you really that afraid of losing your bonus?

Flaming is why so many others are afraid to bring this topic back up. However i am not afraid of the flames, i will speak my piece of mind and utilize what the forums are intended for:) even if i come out as a roasted marshmellow lol:)

I completely agree with your statement about their being other problems however, i think this is a small step in the right direction in making pvp more balanced and playable. It doesnt take much effort to fix imo.

[dudetus]

I couldn't disagree more.

In my opinion true founder's like LwMark founded this game and gave us latecomers the possibility to play this game.

Respect them, don't hate them.

[Seminole]

Looooool Im not even a founder and I find this annoying. What, did bous beat you so bad at 15 that you need to make a thread over it? Looooool, there are bigger problems id prefer STS take care of rather than a measly 5 damage and armor, and I do low level as well so dont act like I have no clue.


Bud Vs. Entertaining. Very interesting. Let's take someone with +5 damage and +5 armor, put them at level 10 and pretend like they aren't completely overpowered. To say that the allowing of founder's in the tournament wasn't completely unfair is just lying. How about you bump that level 10 up to level 17, keep the founder's helmet on and see how it ends. Or after their tournament match they can play to 4 without a founders, to be sure no funny business goes on with screenshotting...

and @ hahahahabirdy, i think it's pretty obvious why... Endgame has more founders... If any endgame players wish to brag themselves up because they can use a founder's helmet to destroy any non founder at level 10, that is their choice but they must know how ridiculous they appear to anyone else.

As for my original post, anyone who would like to accept my challenge and show me what Endgame may or may not have as far as skill goes, may add "Imp" and message me in game. I really would like to see some good Endgamers show me what's up/get destroyed.

Jheesh yich, why cant you have this mentality still? You obviously agreed here founders was a advantage.

[Griffinfan]

They were here at the beginning of the game, Were you?? okay then why are you hating on their stats.

Don't hate what you don't have.

[Ortalan]

I couldn't disagree more.

In my opinion true founder's like LwMark founded this game and gave us latecomers the possibility to play this game.

Respect them, don't hate them.

Lwmark did not even HAVE a founder's account. He purchased his founder's account with US dollars. LMAO

[Cobraguy]

Who care, just need you got to know that life is unfair, dont need to cry about it. Crying like a little baby wont get devs remove/change stats from founder helm.

Just to let you know that i dont own a founder and im still enjoying playing.

Hell, why not cry, it worked to change elite cap bonus and dragon bonus, this is the oldest new complaint. I doubt it will get changed though.


true founder's like LwMark founded this game and gave us latecomers the possibility to play this game.

Lol, true founder.....couldn't help but laugh at this post. :)

[Roberto077]

Plat spenders got the angelic sets
Cappers got cap vanities
veterans get veteran sets
Merch's get a lot of gold
Farmers get good items
AoAs get respect
Devs are gods
Elite players get elite items

If founders are unfair, why aren't these?

[Seminole]

Lwmark did not even HAVE a founder's account. He purchased his founder's account with US dollars. LMAO

Which brings me to to first valid point in my post. Many are buying off these founder accounts which is not what they were meant for.

[Seminole]

They were here at the beginning of the game, Were you?? okay then why are you hating on their stats.

Don't hate what you don't have.

While you bring up a valid point, consider the fact that maybe having the exclusive vanity item is good enough to "show off." Why create a disadvantage in pvp? Doesnt the bad outweigh the good? Also why not give others a fair chance?

[Ortalan]

To be fair, I should add that Lwmark probably doesn't have a founder's account anymore. Last he told me, he was selling it, asking $400.00 US.... There was a ton of gear on the account, too, so the price was for more than just the founder's PVP advantage. Haven't seen good ol' Lwmark in a while in PL.... not since he tricked a good friend of mine into sending him money for artwork that he never sent her.

So yeah, Lwmark is not maybe not the best player to hold up as a shining example of founderdom.

[dudetus]

Lwmark did not even HAVE a founder's account. He purchased his founder's account with US dollars. LMAO

Oh really? I thought he made 2 accounts but started playing the game over half year later but forgot that he had 2 Founder accounts. And just a while back he remembered those two accounts which happened to be Founder accounts.

Oh silly me.

[saool]

Lwmark did not even HAVE a founder's account. He purchased his founder's account with US dollars. LMAO

Oh really? I thought he made 2 accounts but started playing the game over half year later but forgot that he had 2 Founder accounts. And just a while back he remembered those two accounts which happened to be Founder accounts.

Oh silly me.

LMFAO not likely...

[Griffinfan]

While you bring up a valid point, consider the fact that maybe having the exclusive vanity item is good enough to "show off." Why create a disadvantage in pvp? Doesnt the bad outweigh the good? Also why not give others a fair chance?

End gamers with 3 Vanities get special rings. Why doesn't everyone who only have 1 endgame vanity get the special bonus?

I think this is all out of "Leveling the playing field" and "Being fair"

In reality Life is not fair, and if the playing field was leveled those who have started with PL and gotten a special helm (With VERY small stats) and you are complaining they got rewarded for being loyal?

Why not hand out dragon sets like candy, and let everyone be level 76

This brings us to the point of why are we arguing something so small and meaningless. Even though founders may make a difference in low level pvp they are beatable with skill. So instead of complaining about founders and how unfair it is why not improve your skills so you can beat them.

*steps off soapbox

[Seminole]

End gamers with 3 Vanities get special rings. Why doesn't everyone who only have 1 endgame vanity get the special bonus?

I think this is all out of "Leveling the playing field" and "Being fair"

In reality Life is not fair, and if the playing field was leveled those who have started with PL and gotten a special helm (With VERY small stats) and you are complaining they got rewarded for being loyal?

Why not hand out dragon sets like candy, and let everyone be level 76

This brings us to the point of why are we arguing something so small and meaningless. Even though founders may make a difference in low level pvp they are beatable with skill. So instead of complaining about founders and how unfair it is why not improve your skills so you can beat them.

*steps off soapbox

As i already pointed out, altough engamers have 3 piece vanities, new players will still have the same oppurtunity to get the 3 piece set as time progresses. Same with dragon sets. We all have equal oppurtunity and chances. With founders, we dont have that oppurtunity and it creates a huge disadvantage at low level pvp where nobody has any chance against a founders pro.

[Seminole]

Oh really? I thought he made 2 accounts but started playing the game over half year later but forgot that he had 2 Founder accounts. And just a while back he remembered those two accounts which happened to be Founder accounts.

Oh silly me.

No he bought with usd. He told me himself.

[Griffinfan]

As i already pointed out, altough engamers have 3 piece vanities, new players will still have the same oppurtunity to get the 3 piece set as time progresses. Same with dragon sets. We all have equal oppurtunity and chances. With founders, we dont have that oppurtunity and it creates a huge disadvantage at low level pvp where nobody has any chance against a founders pro.


Founders Pro? I have beat endless founders in Pvp, I do it all day. 5 Damage 5 DPS and 5 Armor is NOT a lot.

I know because I am a avid low level Pvper, and people with founders are not all pro, and if they are pro its not because of the founders its because of their skills

I think that you are, again, trying to make fair what shouldn't be fair.

[Caztori]

Founders Pro? I have beat endless founders in Pvp, I do it all day. 5 Damage 5 DPS and 5 Armor is NOT a lot.

I know because I am a avid low level Pvper, and people with founders are not all pro, and if they are pro its not because of the founders its because of their skills

I think that you are, again, trying to make fair what shouldn't be fair.

True story!
I beat people and loose to people (even the same), and this is mostly not because of Founder's.

[Gaunab]

In my opinion true founder's founded this game

That's a very controversial thought... Also don't forget the /sarcasm in your next posts!

Back on topic.

First of all the OP's maths is very decieving. dps is the auto damage you would do every second on average to a target with zero armor. In PvP almost all damage is done by skills. I don't exactly know how crit and armor works but it is also way more complex then this simplified version.

Nontheless he is right. Even if it is just 5 dmg and 5 armor, it is an advantage. Can't argue with that. Unfair since it's impossible to get unless you pay rl money to help you remember your forgotten founder accounts.
In fact, there is not one logical reason why the founders helm should keep its stats. Ofc founders deserve some sort of special recognition but there are many better ways to do that then giving them extra stats.

As long as it stays tho, the bonus is so easy to overcome with actual skill (or a portion of luck) that I couldn't care less about it being "nerfed".

[Rare]

Don't want to beat on a dead horse but...

If you didn't want to beat a dead horse... you should have stopped there.

[Rare]

While you bring up a valid point, consider the fact that maybe having the exclusive vanity item is good enough to "show off." Why create a disadvantage in pvp? Doesnt the bad outweigh the good? Also why not give others a fair chance?

Because its always been there. If they took it away it would alienate those that have it.

[dudetus]

But LwMark is an AoA, and I thought Ambassadors should be role models both in forums and IG. Does this now mean that we can buy Founder's as an Ambassador did it? I mean if it was against ToS, this would be quite awkward for the whole Ambassador program?


Also don't forget the /sarcasm in your next posts!

Sarcasm? Sry, I'm a foreigner I do not know what you mean sir.

[Zeus]

People who purchased founders

• Yich
• Entertaining
• Lwmark
• Shelby


I have proof from each of them admitting they have, with all 4 breaking multiple big rules of the TOS.

[dudetus]

People who purchased founders

• Yich
• Entertaining
• Lwmark
• Shelby


I have proof from each of them admitting they have, with all 3 breaking multiple big rules of the TOS.


Ouch. Busy day for support that is.

[Zeus]

Ouch. Busy day for support that is.

Yich and Entertaining would be impossible to prove, but they did it for me. :)

With them, they sold their runescape account which was high level and has hundreds of millions of gold, thus breaking a TOS. Then, since they're pretty smart, instead of linking the accounts to their main account like most people do, they play on those for low level PvP (since that's all they do anyways).

I believe one of their characters is named Snow, if I'm not mistaken.

They can admit it themselves, or I can post screenshots upon request.

[billybob1]

Yich and Entertaining would be impossible to prove, but they did it for me. :)

With them, they sold their runescape account which was high level and has hundreds of millions of gold, thus breaking a TOS. Then, since they're pretty smart, instead of linking the accounts to their main account like most people do, they play on those for low level PvP (since that's all they do anyways).

I believe one of their characters is named Snow, if I'm not mistaken.

They can admit it themselves, or I can post screenshots upon request.

Zinngggg!!

[noperly22]

Don't want to beat on a dead horse but, to put it bluntly, its unfair. Its a unfair advantage in late level pvp, and lower level pvp. Its like an extra ring. Especially now that vanity bonus is gone for vanity slot. If you want to show off that you are a founders iis completely fine, sts keep the vanity but take off the bonus. Lets take a inside look into the Founders helm Dilemma.

The Cause:
Founders helm vanity has caused many people to sell their account for money which is not what founders was intended for. It has caused endless debate in-game and controversy in tournaments. It has caused turmoil amongst all players especially for lower-levels. It has caused people to brag and even make founders only guilds. It has caused many to look the same. Founders helm is STASHABLE. Which allows the user to switch it out between all their toons, giving an advantage to every toon they possess and not their main char in which they first created the account with.

End level Stats:
Although 5 damage 5 armor 5 dps may seem like nothing, this is simply not the case. Combine 5 damage with a crit, it turns into 10 damage. Mages crit 100 percent of the time when fully buffed. With 10 spell attacks, you are doing an extra 100 damage. Now consider 5 armor. This 5 armor takes into effect immediately even before a crit. Causing up to 100 damage less when you consider end-level crit with every 10 attacks. Now consider 5 dps. Add crit to that dps. With every 10 attacks in dps you are doing an additional 100 damage. This is the issue we are dealing with in end-level pvp. Final result is you are looking at a total of an additional 300 damage/damage saved in a normal encounter in late level pvp. I wont even discuss early level pvp because as we all know founders helm is more of a nuisance creating even more of a advantage to the user

The fake people:
I can assure you people will read this thread, and want to act like a total tough guy claiming it doesnt make a difference, or they can beat founders, or how to get over it, or how they dont care blah blah blah. Well im not over it, and neither is a majority of players.We have to consider the facts at hand, which is without a dought founders helm is a unfair advantage at all levels of pvp. The other people against this thread that will disagree are those who have founders. Rightly so, they want to keep the bonus, so they will claim how they never wear the helm when in actuality they do. Time has passed and people stopped complaining, the founders people were happy. Until again when they have to defend their bonus stats.

Reality:
If we are to reward people with an advantage in pvp, why not reward those in leaderboards with the same advantage? Why not reward those who have spent more time in PL (600 hours+)? Why not reward those who have spent more plat then anyone else.(When i say reward I mean reward in a pvp vanity bonus, not some useless statless vanity gear) I dont see why this is only an exclusive item for those who merely happened to make an PL account. This type of logic only puts the rest of us behind. There are others who have put in more dedication, time and commitment then founders players, yet recieve nothing in return as far as pvp advantage. There is also many who have a founders but never created an account at the deadline. How did this happen? What is going on here sts?

Conclusion:
So this is my story and im sticking to it. If anything I feel better now that I vented, but I really hope a change is near. I hope for everyone to have the same oppurtunity in low level pvp and late level pvp. Yes this is a dead topic, but it is a dead topic in which EVERYONE is effected. It is a topic in which many of us feel left out and unappreciated. I find founders helm to be unjustifiable and a setback to PL.Since STS is now promoting the idea of "nomore bonuses for vanities", I think now is a better time then ever to bring this situation to the table and find a solution.

yawn another noob jealious because he joined the game late, go beat another persons dead horse

[Seminole]

People who purchased founders

• Yich
• Entertaining
• Lwmark
• Shelby


I have proof from each of them admitting they have, with all 4 breaking multiple big rules of the TOS.

Many of the founders are no longer founders. Instead they have bought and broke tos rules. This has become a huge problem. Its funny how Yich came on my thread and tried defending his bonus. I guess he doesnt want to get ripped off. Then he has the nerve to claim he doesnt own a founders. I really hope sts does something about this. Thanks for the insight apollo.

[billybob1]

@seminole were u here when founder's was available? if not, when did you actually start pl?

[Yich]

Yich and Entertaining would be impossible to prove, but they did it for me. :)

With them, they sold their runescape account which was high level and has hundreds of millions of gold, thus breaking a TOS. Then, since they're pretty smart, instead of linking the accounts to their main account like most people do, they play on those for low level PvP (since that's all they do anyways).

I believe one of their characters is named Snow, if I'm not mistaken.

They can admit it themselves, or I can post screenshots upon request.


Many of the founders are no longer founders. Instead they have bought and broke tos rules. This has become a huge problem. Its funny how Yich came on my thread and tried defending his bonus. I guess he doesnt want to get ripped off. Then he has the nerve to claim he doesnt own a founders. I really hope sts does something about this. Thanks for the insight apollo.

I don't have a founders' helm, LOL. There might be proof out there that I owned one and may have gotten it through... Unfair means... But my statement stands, I do not own a founders account or helm. I think a few checks on the founder account/accounts logged into from my IP would prove that. Unless I was really smart and used an entirely different device to play on it, but considering I'm telling you how I could have gotten away with purchasing a founder, odds are I didn't do that. Snow is on the same account "Improving", "Yich" and all my other toons are on, and a simple look at my join date would prove that I'm not a founder.

Call me a hypocrite Apollo, but I think I can call this a whine thread when I don't actually own a founders helm.

[Cobraguy]

To be fair, I should add that Lwmark probably doesn't have a founder's account anymore. Last he told me, he was selling it, asking $400.00 US.... There was a ton of gear on the account, too, so the price was for more than just the founder's PVP advantage. Haven't seen good ol' Lwmark in a while in PL.... not since he tricked a good friend of mine into sending him money for artwork that he never sent her.

So yeah, Lwmark is not maybe not the best player to hold up as a shining example of founderdom.

Oh the screenshots of the PMs I could post.....Maybe I should considering this thread will probably get locked now anyway. :)

ETA: LOL....You said he was asking $400? This is the PM I got from him asking where hes been in game....

[Yich]

Yich and Entertaining would be impossible to prove, but they did it for me. :)

With them, they sold their runescape account which was high level and has hundreds of millions of gold, thus breaking a TOS. Then, since they're pretty smart, instead of linking the accounts to their main account like most people do, they play on those for low level PvP (since that's all they do anyways).

I believe one of their characters is named Snow, if I'm not mistaken.

They can admit it themselves, or I can post screenshots upon request.


Many of the founders are no longer founders. Instead they have bought and broke tos rules. This has become a huge problem. Its funny how Yich came on my thread and tried defending his bonus. I guess he doesnt want to get ripped off. Then he has the nerve to claim he doesnt own a founders. I really hope sts does something about this. Thanks for the insight apollo.


Jheesh yich, why cant you have this mentality still? You obviously agreed here founders was a advantage.

Except not only was that pre - forgotten, it was also a tournament for a pirate shield, a 1v1 tournament to be specific. The advantage was given so hard to founders that it wasn't even funny. When you play FFA style, that bonus is much different. My statement stands, I'd rather STS fix the forg bow problem than something as small as the founder. Oh and if you didnt notice, with the rate Techno Email is going with high stats in low level, 5 armor and damage will mean less and less with every friggin item she releases.

[Loaden]

People who purchased founders

• Yich
• Entertaining
• Lwmark
• Shelby


I have proof from each of them admitting they have, with all 4 breaking multiple big rules of the TOS.

This guy has too much swag for me to handle.
*Request for Pictures. If it does not break the ToS.

[Loaden]

Don't want to beat on a dead horse but, to put it bluntly, its unfair. Its a unfair advantage in late level pvp, and lower level pvp. Its like an extra ring. Especially now that vanity bonus is gone for vanity slot. If you want to show off that you are a founders iis completely fine, sts keep the vanity but take off the bonus. Lets take a inside look into the Founders helm Dilemma.

The Cause:
Founders helm vanity has caused many people to sell their account for money which is not what founders was intended for. It has caused endless debate in-game and controversy in tournaments. It has caused turmoil amongst all players especially for lower-levels. It has caused people to brag and even make founders only guilds. It has caused many to look the same. Founders helm is STASHABLE. Which allows the user to switch it out between all their toons, giving an advantage to every toon they possess and not their main char in which they first created the account with.

End level Stats:
Although 5 damage 5 armor 5 dps may seem like nothing, this is simply not the case. Combine 5 damage with a crit, it turns into 10 damage. Mages crit 100 percent of the time when fully buffed. With 10 spell attacks, you are doing an extra 100 damage. Now consider 5 armor. This 5 armor takes into effect immediately even before a crit. Causing up to 100 damage less when you consider end-level crit with every 10 attacks. Now consider 5 dps. Add crit to that dps. With every 10 attacks in dps you are doing an additional 100 damage. This is the issue we are dealing with in end-level pvp. Final result is you are looking at a total of an additional 300 damage/damage saved in a normal encounter in late level pvp. I wont even discuss early level pvp because as we all know founders helm is more of a nuisance creating even more of a advantage to the user

The fake people:
I can assure you people will read this thread, and want to act like a total tough guy claiming it doesnt make a difference, or they can beat founders, or how to get over it, or how they dont care blah blah blah. Well im not over it, and neither is a majority of players.We have to consider the facts at hand, which is without a dought founders helm is a unfair advantage at all levels of pvp. The other people against this thread that will disagree are those who have founders. Rightly so, they want to keep the bonus, so they will claim how they never wear the helm when in actuality they do. Time has passed and people stopped complaining, the founders people were happy. Until again when they have to defend their bonus stats.

Reality:
If we are to reward people with an advantage in pvp, why not reward those in leaderboards with the same advantage? Why not reward those who have spent more time in PL (600 hours+)? Why not reward those who have spent more plat then anyone else.(When i say reward I mean reward in a pvp vanity bonus, not some useless statless vanity gear) I dont see why this is only an exclusive item for those who merely happened to make an PL account. This type of logic only puts the rest of us behind. There are others who have put in more dedication, time and commitment then founders players, yet recieve nothing in return as far as pvp advantage. There is also many who have a founders but never created an account at the deadline. How did this happen? What is going on here sts?

Conclusion:
So this is my story and im sticking to it. If anything I feel better now that I vented, but I really hope a change is near. I hope for everyone to have the same oppurtunity in low level pvp and late level pvp. Yes this is a dead topic, but it is a dead topic in which EVERYONE is effected. It is a topic in which many of us feel left out and unappreciated. I find founders helm to be unjustifiable and a setback to PL.Since STS is now promoting the idea of "nomore bonuses for vanities", I think now is a better time then ever to bring this situation to the table and find a solution.

Debating won't change things, other then this tiny little problem. Think of other stuff, especially the really hit topic. Forgotten weapons. This weapons IS broken, and forever will be. Maybe until STS start including more items, like the new Halloween items, etc.

[Seminole]

Debating won't change things, other then this tiny little problem. Think of other stuff, especially the really hit topic. Forgotten weapons. This weapons IS broken, and forever will be. Maybe until STS start including more items, like the new Halloween items, etc.

With forgotten bows everyone can have one. Its everyones advantage. With founders only the people who break sts rules and a small select few have one. UNFAIR!!

[Jsaieagle]

Omg, stop these kinds of threads. Stop crying this is unfair and that is unfair!

Those crying babies have already made STS ruining the elite vanity sets, then dragon sets, and now founder helmet!?

There are not much old players left in PL!

[saool]

Omg, stop these kinds of threads. Stop crying this is unfair and that is unfair!

Those crying babies have already made STS ruining the elite vanity sets, then dragon sets, and now founder helmet!?

There are not much old players left in PL!

uhm technically they didn't change much. Just made the elite vanities into rings and dragons the same. YOU should stop complaining about threads, and stay clear of them if the tick you off.

[BlueSkied]

Dang, Apollo putting everyone's business on front street. GG.

[Seminole]

Dang, Apollo putting everyone's business on front street. GG.

Yes lol its very obvious many people came here to protect their vanity bonuses because they bought it illegally and dont want to feel ripped off. Its time to put a end to this, come on Devs, I encourage a answer to this thread or a opinion on your side of this debate:)

This has gotten out of hand, the original purpose of the founders helm is being exploited by people who are breaking tos rules. I dont want to fall to that level and buy one off the black market. Instead I am very happy this thread is exposing the truth!

[Urqui]

Avoid fighting players with founders...

[:-D]

People who purchased founders

• Yich
• Entertaining
• Lwmark
• Shelby


I have proof from each of them admitting they have, with all 4 breaking multiple big rules of the TOS.

You're so reliable

[hemanbeast]

You're so reliable

Lol. Grats
Honestly, I don't see the problem in the founders anymore.There is an unfair advantage, but the advantage is so slight that in 1v1 that it doesn't matter. If you are having problems with Low Level PvP, just PM me...I help. :D

[Bunnyshoota]

Founders advantage is negligible at 45+.

Buying them is wrong, but you just have to live with it.

If you had a founders, would you still be saying that?


-BS

[Ephesius]

Actually my uncle probably has a founders helm, he played a long time ago but quit because he didn't like pocket legends all that much. I dont know how long go he play pocket legends, I try to get him to redownload it but he does not do so but he said it changed alot when I showed him it. If he remember his pass and gave it to me thats not bad or break tos cause we is family I think when I see him again I'll ask and see if he remember his stuff and if he can log in for me

[dudetus]

Actually my uncle probably has a founders helm, he played a long time ago but quit because he didn't like pocket legends all that much. I dont know how long go he play pocket legends, I try to get him to redownload it but he does not do so but he said it changed alot when I showed him it. If he remember his pass and gave it to me thats not bad or break tos cause we is family I think when I see him again I'll ask and see if he remember his stuff and if he can log in for me

Didn't see this coming.

I was sure as I checked latest posters that ur post was about "Founder's are noobs I kill them all". U have improved. Where do u need Founder's btw? U r best bird, u don't need any bonuses.

[Spectre]

Didn't see this coming.

I was sure as I checked latest posters that ur post was about "Founder's are noobs I kill them all". U have improved. Where do u need Founder's btw? U r best bird, u don't need any bonuses.

LOL Ikr

[Ephesius]

Nope asked him he doesnt remember and he has good memory so that means no one can remeber there login from two years ago if my uncle cant. And I kill past pros, occasionally they will be founders, or ppl who bought founders

[Arcanee]

yep

[dudetus]

Nope asked him he doesnt remember and he has good memory so that means no one can remeber there login from two years ago if my uncle cant. And I kill past pros, occasionally they will be founders, or ppl who bought founders

Well duh. U r immortal. Ur 0.5 kdr tells that message.

[LwMark]

To be fair, I should add that Lwmark probably doesn't have a founder's account anymore. Last he told me, he was selling it, asking $400.00 US.... There was a ton of gear on the account, too, so the price was for more than just the founder's PVP advantage. Haven't seen good ol' Lwmark in a while in PL.... not since he tricked a good friend of mine into sending him money for artwork that he never sent her.

So yeah, Lwmark is not maybe not the best player to hold up as a shining example of founderdom.

Oh the screenshots of the PMs I could post.....Maybe I should considering this thread will probably get locked now anyway. :)

ETA: LOL....You said he was asking $400? This is the PM I got from him asking where hes been in game....

Umm hateraptor does ace and cliff ring a bell? Lol, i dont delete history either

[MightyMicah]

The cause: This is probably your most valid point. Even so, removing founders will not help this. There will always be issues like this. I remember someone threatening to hack me if I didn't give him my level 10 present shield.

End level stats: This is a very invalid point that you made. Just in case you haven't been twinking lately, let me remind you that most characters die in about two shots. Not ten. You have forgotten bows to thank for that. End game it doesn't make a difference because end game has been screwed for some time...but that's for another thread ;)

The fake people: Im not exactly sure what your point is here. I LOVE founders helms and I support them 100%. Oh, btw, I don't have one. Would I like one? I suppose. I certainly won't scam for one, though. You mentioned the "majority" of players don't like them? I would love to know just how you figured this out. Especially considering that the majority of players don't even know what a founder helm is.

Reality: I believe you make a fairly valid point here. Let me introduce you to new logic. Two wrongs don't make a right. Lets say for a minute that it was definitely wrong for sts to give out those founders helms. It would be equally as wrong (if not more so) to remove them now. You suggested adding new rewards? This whole thread is complaining about the old ones. I don't even...Wut...halp!

Conclusion: You go ahead and stick to your story. I believe that it's people like you who save games like PL. However, your original post doesn't have any thanks for a reason. I'm sorry you feel that founders are a problem. Unfortunately I believe the vast majority of players do not, in fact, agree with you.

My conclusion- Founders are fine. Most people like them and therefore there is no reason for the devs to change them.

"It's time we let go of the past and keep moving forward."~Meet the Robinsons

[MightyMicah]

Oh really? I thought he made 2 accounts but started playing the game over half year later but forgot that he had 2 Founder accounts. And just a while back he remembered those two accounts which happened to be Founder accounts.

Oh silly me.

(Sorry for the double post...)

DROP IT.

[dudetus]

(Sorry for the double post...)

DROP IT.

What did I do now? At first I recognized LwMark as one of the true Founder's and after that people started raging at him like he bought one and stuff and in my quoted reply to that I explained what LwMark explained. I don't understand why u attacked to me.

[Growwle]

I don't even play STS games anymore :p After 2 years they just don't do it for me anymore.

You should lose your forum access then, since all you can contribute is negativity.

[TANKKAAR]

http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx287/Tedpotter3/kfo.jpg

[razerfingers]

Yeh, well guess what i have two full elite vanity set accounts i forgot about.. lemme email STS see if i can get em mergedddd haha yeah NOT! (Sarcasm)

Sent using blood on a bathroom wall

[vampinoy]

@ Apollo - please do post those proof of people admitting to purchasing founders. You were on the right track and you stopped...did they talk you out of exposing them in private messages? :D Expose these people and be a true community guy :D

[LwMark]

@ Apollo - please do post those proof of people admitting to purchasing founders. You were on the right track and you stopped...did they talk you out of exposing them in private messages? :D Expose these people and be a true community guy :D
Yes please post

[Seminole]

The cause: This is probably your most valid point. Even so, removing founders will not help this. There will always be issues like this. I remember someone threatening to hack me if I didn't give him my level 10 present shield.

End level stats: This is a very invalid point that you made. Just in case you haven't been twinking lately, let me remind you that most characters die in about two shots. Not ten. You have forgotten bows to thank for that. End game it doesn't make a difference because end game has been screwed for some time...but that's for another thread ;)

The fake people: Im not exactly sure what your point is here. I LOVE founders helms and I support them 100%. Oh, btw, I don't have one. Would I like one? I suppose. I certainly won't scam for one, though. You mentioned the "majority" of players don't like them? I would love to know just how you figured this out. Especially considering that the majority of players don't even know what a founder helm is.

Reality: I believe you make a fairly valid point here. Let me introduce you to new logic. Two wrongs don't make a right. Lets say for a minute that it was definitely wrong for sts to give out those founders helms. It would be equally as wrong (if not more so) to remove them now. You suggested adding new rewards? This whole thread is complaining about the old ones. I don't even...Wut...halp!

Conclusion: You go ahead and stick to your story. I believe that it's people like you who save games like PL. However, your original post doesn't have any thanks for a reason. I'm sorry you feel that founders are a problem. Unfortunately I believe the vast majority of players do not, in fact, agree with you.

My conclusion- Founders are fine. Most people like them and therefore there is no reason for the devs to change them.

"It's time we let go of the past and keep moving forward."~Meet the Robinsons

First off, thank you for actually reading my post unlike some other people here who automatically flame without even reading the thread. Also thank you for some of the compliments you gave me, I very much appreciate it. Let me just reitterate some stuff:

Endlevel Stats: Endlevel stats are exactly this, Endlevel stats. Not sure why you included twinking in endlevel stats. As for late level pvp being dead, I really believe that this will be a small step forward in balancing PVP for all levels. Anytime you level the playing field, it makes everything more fair and fun. A normal encounter can take way more then 10 attacks in actuality. ESPECIALLY with all the STR sets in late level pvp. Ever see a mage against bear fight? A mage on mage fight? Bear on Bear? These battles take alot more time and attacks then just 10. Once you keep adding the 5 5 5(5 damage 5 armor 5 dps) into the equation it makes a HUGE difference especially with crit. Trust me on this.

The Fake people: The majority of people do have a problem with founders. Thats why their is so many threads about it and thats why its banned in many low level tournaments. If the People who dont know about it were told about it, wouldnt you think they would find it unjust?

Reality: Sts is not giving away founders, people are illegally obtaining them through the black market. Something must be done about this. If it was such a small bonus then why are peolpe paying hundreds of dollars for such a small bonus? The answer is simple, people are not willing to admit the importance of this helm, but will go off and pay for the advantage.

Conclusion: I dont care if I dont recieve thanks, this is not a popularity contest and I am not looking to gain friends from this. I want to get the truth out and help level out the playing field for all levels of pvp. Thank you mighty for your post:)

[Seminole]

Oh the screenshots of the PMs I could post.....Maybe I should considering this thread will probably get locked now anyway. :)

ETA: LOL....You said he was asking $400? This is the PM I got from him asking where hes been in game....

lwmark here is some proof

[LwMark]

Oh the screenshots of the PMs I could post.....Maybe I should considering this thread will probably get locked now anyway. :)

ETA: LOL....You said he was asking $400? This is the PM I got from him asking where hes been in game....

lwmark here is some proof

The person who posted this post has been involved in flippin founds *cough* *cliff* people make me lol

[Delphina]

I am closing this thread now.


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