The Top of the Food Chain

[MightyMicah]

This is something I've noticed awhile back. It seems with every new update it gets worse and worse.

Mages seem to be the "top of the food chain."

At first there were levels where they were either No.1 or No.2 and very rarely were they No.3 out of the three classes at any given level. Then more builds kept getting discovered, birds kept getting unstated nerfs, new items began coming out (ahem forgotten bows) which all just continued making mages the best class across the board. Recently, with the release of the new classes, I've noticed that mages are now the best out of five total classes.

Is this correct? I've made this thread so that people can flame me for being a noob and saying this. ;)

If I am correct, however, in my statements, then this is a huge problem. Pvp must work like rock, paper, scissors. We somewhat had that before the new classes and weapons (before forgotten and Halloween). Now I feel as if the new classes struggle to compete with birds and bears, but get slaughtered by mages.

Well, what do y'all think? Am I simply biased or closed minded? Is it still too early to say anything about rhinos and foxes? Lemme know!

~MM

[Everyone'sFavMage]

Naw ur right for the most part. Mages have slowly become more and more op. especially end game with pallys lawl.

[D-:]

Well as Cookiez says, "birds = luck. Mages = total skill"

[imxoriginal]

I would say Mage=luck bird=skill

[Gaunab]

Mages arent the best class at all.
Good bears easily beat mages at 51, 55, 56, 60, 61, 66, 71, 76. I have chars of either class at each of those levels. At most of these levels Bears also beat dexbirds. At 66 mages are propably at their peak and can do pretty well against bears and destroy birds.
At endgame the best class is arguably bird now. Intmages are ultra squishy and Pallies also get owned since the latest update increased the skillcap to 9 .-.


Ps: I dont PvP below 50, so i dont really know or care about lower lvls.

[XghostzX]

They're all OP... it just depends on the different scenarios.

Honestly, I think all classes are pretty fair as long as both characters are fully buffed before the fight. What sucks is when a bird catches me off guard while I'm unbuffed... with their dodge, huge *** damage, there's no chance.

As for rhino's and foxes, I can't say much for them now. I have a 72 rhino atm and have tried very little PvP. Beating Rhino's will be hella easily considering there longest ranged attack only goes 8m...

[MightyMicah]

Thanks for the answers, guys! Just to clarify, I meant across the board. Certainly at some levels mages aren't the most powerful. However, it seems to me that at all levels, mages are either most powerful or second most powerful. This is a problem. Just because they aren't THE (caps for emphasis) most powerful class at every level does not mean they aren't still #1 class.

[cookiez]

And also, bears very OP at 56. (51 aswell) so it depends on the level

10-20 bears
25-35- mages
35-44 bears
45-50 mages
51-58 bears
61-66 mages
66-70 mages
71-76 birds

Just my personal opinion and this is not using forgottens

[Waug]

Don't mind, its a bit back dated topic actually overdodge+9 skill+crit saturation+elitwep have thrown away the mage from that supremacy. gg sts, now mages should learn what's pvp.

[Otukura]

Mages arent the best class at all.
Good bears easily beat mages at 51, 55, 56, 60, 61, 66, 71, 76. I have chars of either class at each of those levels. At most of these levels Bears also beat dexbirds. At 66 mages are propably at their peak and can do pretty well against bears and destroy birds.
At endgame the best class is arguably bird now. Intmages are ultra squishy and Pallies also get owned since the latest update increased the skillcap to 9 .-.


Ps: I dont PvP below 50, so i dont really know or care about lower lvls.

you are the top of the food chain

[Waug]

Birds are crap


Birds=luck


fighting mage vs mage that IMO is the ONLY fight that takes skill.



I believe that no class is "the best" it all depends on skillzz

Sign of improvement or just contradictory thinking?

[Zapoke]

Sign of improvement or just contradictory thinking?

Neither. You're misreading his posts. The mage vs Mage fights are the only one that takes skill because there's no DODGE. Yes, that's right, DODGE is a roll stat, and therefor is (usually) based on luck. Hence "birds=luck." No dodge, no win for birds.

[Waug]

No dodge, no win for birds.

Though it's wrong but lets take your sentence and analysis it, you believe that, without dodge birds can't win and combine it with the fact that birds are still fragile even with dodges, what we get? Dodge is nothing but an extra defence mechanism and only dodge/luck cant save a bird that need true skills. Whatever else I have to say about dodge and luck, I discussed here-
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?79613-The-biggest-misconception-in-PvP-Dodge-total-luck-factor

I can't agree at any point that only luck determine the winner where bird is involved, what you guys tried to justify rather birds need highest degree of skill to be successful in PvP.

[Zapoke]

Though it's wrong but lets take your sentence and analysis it, you believe that, without dodge birds can't win and combine it with the fact that birds are still fragile even with dodges, what we get? Dodge is nothing but an extra defence mechanism and only dodge/luck cant save a bird that need true skills. Whatever else I have to say about dodge and luck, I discussed here-
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?79613-The-biggest-misconception-in-PvP-Dodge-total-luck-factor

I can't agree at any point that only luck determine the winner where bird is involved, what you guys tried to justify rather birds need highest degree of skill to be successful in PvP.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong about dodge. Dead wrong. Crit and dodge both are LUCK based stats, which can be manipulated to a point.
And as for skill required, I never said anything about what I think about that. I think the class that requires the least skill is easily bears. The most skill, also easily, would be foxes, followed by birds. Birds because they simply have mediocre buffs compared to bear and mage, but they're bellow foxes due to the insane timing required to play a fox. 3 second dodge buff, 5 second cool down.
And yeah, birds don't require ONLY luck. But without luck your chance of winning on a bird (dex) is slim to none.

[Bunnyshoota]

Good dex/str bears at 51-61 can beat mages. Mages are best at 66. I don't pvp higher than 66

Mages do seem to be stronger than the other classes at lower levels cus of forgotten

[Heyitskay]

I agree with you. However at 35 if the bird is skilled using forgotten, i've seen them own. So at 35, i think it's between birds and mages :3
Good dex/str bears at 51-61 can beat mages. Mages are best at 66. I don't pvp higher than 66

Mages do seem to be stronger than the other classes at lower levels cus of forgotten

[MightyMicah]

Thanks for the opinions guys! Try and stay on topic! (Cookiez, Zapoke, D-: )

[Heroelite]

Mages are defintley OP at atleast 75% of PVP levels. They can keep denying it but it's true...

[Heyitskay]

Unless they nub >.<

[cookiez]

Mages are defintley OP at atleast 75% of PVP levels. They can keep denying it but it's true...


If they are OP why don't you be a mage?:)

[Heyitskay]

hahaha
If they are OP why don't you be a mage?:)

[MightyMicah]

If they are OP why don't you be a mage?:)

This argument doesn't work. With your mentality there will never be any other classes played ever again. I doubt anyone in this entire game wants to see mages as the only class being played. If a class is op we should not just say, "the heck with it" and play that class.

Also there's an old American idea called, "Under Dog." Most people have forgotten this idea, though.

[Heyitskay]

I say everyone has their opinions and lets just leave it at that shall we?

[Waug]

@zapoke you're wrong at this point that crit can be manipulated except through you're build.

Crit is also luck based as you said so how could you ignore the fact that int mage does not depend on luck, cuz if you don't crit you're chance is narrow or 100% crit making you total lucky at those level where it's matter.

So how you guys feel it at any suitable level where it matter -
mage=total luck in form of crit
birds=luck in form of dodge+crit
bear=luck in form of overdodge

Now calculate what is luck and what's true skill and who's not lucky, who depends on luck and who does not.

you're wrong. Crit and dodge both are LUCK based stats, which
crit is much more luck based than dodge.

I'm not wrong anywhere but you're welcome to criticise me in my main thread about this matter.

[Heyitskay]

if u mean eliminate/ restructure things like f bows, that's a lost dream. The reason why they made it is prob bcuz nub beginners would get owned, and they thought bringing something like that would give them more chances. ( And won't quit) I don't think the devs will ever take things like fbows away for example. Idk of this makes sense to anyone but just my thought.

[Heroelite]

If they are OP why don't you be a mage?:)
I have many mages at many different levels and I rarely use them because it's just not fun to beat all the other classes easily.

[MightyMicah]

I have many mages at many different levels and I rarely use them because it's just not fun to beat all the other classes easily.

Thank you!

[omgitsbri]

Before the two new classes, mages were the only class able to use all the 51+ plus sets effectively because int birds and int bears are cute but generally not effective.

In addition, dodge and crits are semi luck factors. The more points in them, the more likely you are to dodge. You might dodge alot or not crit at all. Overtime it should even out.

[MightyMicah]

Before the two new classes, mages were the only class able to use all the 51+ plus sets effectively because int birds and int bears are cute but generally not effective.

In addition, dodge and crits are semi luck factors. The more points in them, the more likely you are to dodge. You might dodge alot or not crit at all. Overtime it should even out.

Hmm so you're saying mages aren't the dominate class?

[Waug]

Hmm so you're saying mages aren't the dominate class?

Nope, he just said mages aren't cute but int birds are :p

[omgitsbri]

Hmm so you're saying mages aren't the dominate class?

I didnt say whether i think if they are OP. But if you want my opinion, they are dominant in the sense they are the top class to use in the majority of the levels. They should nerf the 30 damage like sts did to the bears. Still in a perfect scenario, a bear could kite at 13m and avoid all the drain ice fire a mage throws at em. I admit 2/3 of my characters are mages since IR Narb and need OP characters to win.

[D-:]

Before the two new classes, mages were the only class able to use all the 51+ plus sets effectively because int birds and int bears are cute but generally not effective.

In addition, dodge and crits are semi luck factors. The more points in them, the more likely you are to dodge. You might dodge alot or not crit at all. Overtime it should even out.

"Not effective"

My int bird beat almost all of your characters.

[omgitsbri]

I said generally not effective, you obviously pro. Besides i suck :p

[Loaden]

Pretty sUre I stated this long ago somewhere.

[MightyMicah]

Pretty sUre I stated this long ago somewhere.

Me too... ;)

[D-:]

Me too... ;)

Me three..

[Supermanhero]

Are mages op at 56-61? I'm planning to make a bear around that Lvl which Lvl is bear better at cuz sometimes mages can kite a bear pretty good >.<

[Gaunab]

Are mages op at 56-61? I'm planning to make a bear around that Lvl which Lvl is bear better at cuz sometimes mages can kite a bear pretty good >.<

Bears are better then mages and birds at either lvl.

[Supermanhero]

Ok thanks!

[MightyMicah]

Bears are better then mages and birds at either lvl.

This is simply not true. A bird with a forgotten bow will eat a bear alive along with the bear's hit%

Supermanhero- I've spent the majority of my entire PL play time at 50-56. Believe me when I tell you that mages are, without a doubt, the best class.

[Heyitskay]

Overall, couldn't agree more, btw Micah me like ure sig thingy :P
This is simply not true. A bird with a forgotten bow will eat a bear alive along with the bear's hit%

Supermanhero- I've spent the majority of my entire PL play time at 50-56. Believe me when I tell you that mages are, without a doubt, the best class.

[Supermanhero]

So if I make a char Lvl 56 what should it be? And what char is op at 61?

Mightymicah but if bird catches Mage no shield - Mage down!
Mage<bear
Bird>bear
Bird<Mage this is a circle lol

[MightyMicah]

So if I make a char Lvl 56 what should it be? And what char is op at 61?

Mightymicah but if bird catches Mage no shield - Mage down!
Mage<bear
Bird>bear
Bird<Mage this is a circle lol

You go with that, bro. ;)

@Heyitskay, thanks! :D

[Gaunab]

This is simply not true. A bird with a forgotten bow will eat a bear alive along with the bear's hit%

Supermanhero- I've spent the majority of my entire PL play time at 50-56. Believe me when I tell you that mages are, without a doubt, the best class.

Here we go again...
I have 7 chars at 55-61 adding up kills I easily have 20k+ on them. I know what Im talking about.

When I asked you for a fight in another thread you even said 50 is the highest you do. If you have a 56/61 bird fight me, if you dont stop making false statements. Any experienced PvPer in that range can comfirm that bears beat the other classes 1vs1. I know I do.

[MightyMicah]

Here we go again...
I have 7 chars at 55-61 adding up kills I easily have 20k+ on them. I know what Im talking about.

When I asked you for a fight in another thread you even said 50 is the highest you do. If you have a 56/61 bird fight me, if you dont stop making false statements. Any experienced PvPer in that range can comfirm that bears beat the other classes 1vs1. I know I do.

I avoid 56 now (although I do have a bear) but I didn't always. In fact, like I said, the majority of pvping that I've done has been at 55-56. I stand by what I said. Mages are the best class all around. I eat bears on my 50.

If you disagree, that's great. You stated your opinion. All I'm doing is stating mine. Jee wiz. You wanna give me a break please?

[Gaunab]

I avoid 56 now (although I do have a bear) but I didn't always. In fact, like I said, the majority of pvping that I've done has been at 55-56. I stand by what I said. Mages are the best class all around. I eat bears on my 50.

If you disagree, that's great. You stated your opinion. All I'm doing is stating mine. Jee wiz. You wanna give me a break please?

You were the one saying "This is not true" after I stated that bears are the dominant class at 56-61. And that is not an opinion but a fact. Its a fact because I after 6k kills on my bears I havent had one bird that would have the upper hand over time. And that bears beat mages is a well known fact. I offerd to prove it to you but it looks like you dont even have twinks at the levels I was talking about in the first place .-.

[MightyMicah]

You were the one saying "This is not true" after I stated that bears are the dominant class at 56-61. And that is not an opinion but a fact. Its a fact because I after 6k kills on my bears I havent had one bird that would have the upper hand over time. And that bears beat mages is a well known fact. I offerd to prove it to you but it looks like you dont even have twinks at the levels I was talking about in the first place .-.

Me saying "That is simply not true" is, in FACT, an OPINION (caps for emphasis)

Just because you're good doesn't mean your class is dominate. I used to Pwn voodoo mages on my 35 warbird. In fact, in an FFA, I could whoop almost any Mage in a battle to 10. Mages were the dominate class.

Once again, this is my OPINION, not a FACT. (Caps for emphasis)

[Everyone'sFavMage]

Here we go again...
I have 7 chars at 55-61 adding up kills I easily have 20k+ on them. I know what Im talking about.

When I asked you for a fight in another thread you even said 50 is the highest you do. If you have a 56/61 bird fight me, if you dont stop making false statements. Any experienced PvPer in that range can comfirm that bears beat the other classes 1vs1. I know I do.well hai there, I have 9 twinks in this level range and I counted my kills and they added up to 31k at this lvl range. GF GAUNUB

[Everyone'sFavMage]

Me saying "That is simply not true" is, in FACT, an OPINION (caps for emphasis)

Just because you're good doesn't mean your class is dominate. I used to Pwn voodoo mages on my 35 warbird. In fact, in an FFA, I could whoop almost any Mage in a battle to 10. Mages were the dominate class.

Once again, this is my OPINION, not a FACT. (Caps for emphasis)
And I'm going to have to agree with gaunab on this. Sry mages aren't the most op.

[Gaunab]

well hai there, I have 9 twinks in this level range and I counted my kills and they added up to 31k at this lvl range. GF GAUNUB

Wahwahwah :cower: wanna compare numbers for above 61? ;)

[MightyMicah]

Cause numbers mean everything...

[Everyone'sFavMage]

Wahwahwah :cower: wanna compare numbers for above 61? ;)

Idk. Do I? I have a little over 80k total on all chars. U?

[Hadesofshadow]

and then you realize all fights come down to who has quicker fingers...

[Waug]

Cause numbers mean everything...

Names and Fake Numbers are everything these days,