Official PvP Feedback Thread: Class Balance

[iacito]

Rather than nerfing Rogue Damage, they need to raise Mage HP. Nerfing rogue damage makes it impossible to kill a warrior considering how quickly a rogue would run out of MP.
At least raising mage HP would benefit them against both Rogue AND Warrior. I don't understand why mage's prefer to nerf rogue over upping their own HP.
Why do mages totally forget there is an unkillable Warrior class? It's easy to get killed by a rogue, but also easy to kill one.
Because it won't do anything against rogues. Warrior have 3k health and way more armor than a mage and still get 1/2 shoted by a rogue.

[Rasittt]

aside from all, we should have been able to respec free for couple of days to adjust our characters to the pvp zone..we can't just gamble and see if those skills work the best for pvp or waste platinum, unless that's the goal..

[yuriramos]

Rather than nerfing Rogue Damage, they need to raise Mage HP. Nerfing rogue damage makes it impossible to kill a warrior considering how quickly a rogue would run out of MP.
At least raising mage HP would benefit them against both Rogue AND Warrior. I don't understand why mage's prefer to nerf rogue over upping their own HP.
Why do mages totally forget there is an unkillable Warrior class? It's easy to get killed by a rogue, but also easy to kill one.

True. But its the aimed shot that makes the rogue op ,that skill needs to be nerfed but not the entire rogue damage itself. We need a class to match warriors.

[Jerahmeel De Guzman]

Oh the sorcerer class, IDK WHY ALL OF YOU ARE HAVING A HARD TIME!!!

For one, even as a support, other players tend to go after mages first in a group for easy pickings which leads to them running. This technically nullify our "support" status. Oh but wait, if we stay with the group we still have a good chance of STILL dying. I guess we have to support all the way where we can't see the fighting. Time to use my attacks at the wall and hope it will land on an animate object.

Secondly, gale force doesn't do anything even w/ the speed boost seeing as warriors and rogues can easily catch up w/ their dash & skyward smash or w/e it's called, oh and it damages, alot. Our cooldown for our skills suck to even counterattack but also the fact that we have to charge our skills to actually have an effect. Mages might as well just be throwing steamed tomato's or wrist watches at the enemy. This gives the other two classes that extra second to land a killing blow. 4 spaces for skill set isn't enough for mages because: heal, shield (both self explanatory), leaving two other attack skills to attempt to kill with. Our poor mana pool unused in vain. I'M TOTALLY READY TO TAKE THE LIFE OF THE OTHER TWO CLASSES!!!!

Thirdly, everyone saying mages need to respec seem to think it's easily possible for them to do so.

Fourthly, "know how to play your character" ... apparently, the majority of mages don't know how to use their character whilst the majority of rogues and warriors ALL know how to use their character regardless of what skill sets and builds they have right? Who knew ... I surely didn't. If mages MUST have specific skills what's the point of giving us options? -shrugs-

(rolls eyes)

[D-Zaak]

Are you serious? The amount of times I have run around an entire map giving everything I got against Warrior, only for them to still capture my flag then come back and kill me with skyward smash is amazing. I can't 2-shot them with all their shield and heal skills. It's impossible. They are the real OP when they use those skills.

As for aimed shot, Rogues have the lowest MP in the game. In order to stack up crit to kill a warrior, a rogue needs more MP than currently available. If someone created an INT rogue, then their dex would be so low that it nullifies damage and crit anyway.

The real problem is the weakness of mage, not strength or rogue. I totally agree that it is unnacceptable that I can 1 shot a mage if they don't have a shield. It is prerfectly fair for all the mage's in here to complain about it. But THEIR stats need to increase so they can survive against all classes, not just rogues.

Also, warriors are way too fast. Their speed and skyward smash needs to be nerffed so their speed is in light with their size and strength.

[currycrab]

Nerf Warrior HP / Def / Heal:
If warrior HP / Def / Heal is nerf, when it come to PvE, who is going to tank? Rogue / Mage?
If warrior is nerf, the damage is below moderate to give good damange.

Nerf Rogue Damage / Skill
If rogue damage / skill is nerf, does it stand a chance to fight against mage / warrior being the lowest HP and Mana?
When come to PvE, rogue play a role for AoE. Does this mean players going to die because of this tuning?

Nerf Mage Skill / Mana
If Mage is consider lowest HP compare to rogue and warrior, the skills are leet. Does that mean that their skills need to retweet?
If it is retweet, wont that mean that Mage could hardly survive on its on in PvE or PvP? Since damage and health of other races are affected, this character damage has to be affected too.

Every class has their special build. It will remain as a normal character until you have unlock the right skills / stats. What I feel is that, currently PvP work fine. Every class has their own responsibility. If it is retweet, PvE may be affected. Class will no longer be balance.

CTF is about team work. Regardless what class you are, as long as you are team player, victory is yours.

[Cashews]

Because it won't do anything against rogues. Warrior have 3k health and way more armor than a mage and still get 1/2 shoted by a rogue.

Complete exaggeration here. Not only would you have to get two perfect maxed damage aim shot crits in a row to kill an equivalent maxed warrior due to their high armor, they have heal skills to offset this. It generally takes between 4-6 charged aimed shots to kill a warrior because you don't always crit and when you do it is rarely high; especially on a warrior.

[D-Zaak]

Just to add, Rogues are not OP, leaderboards just favour their skillset. Warriors are OP and Mages are UP.

[Energizeric]

I said it before, but the solution here is to increase the damage of mages. This way it's a fair fight with a rogue, and this way we have some sort of chance of killing a warrior. The best way to do this is not to actually increase our damage, but instead to do the following:

1) INT points should boost Crit stat, perhaps not as much as DEX does, but somewhat so that mages have decent crit and have a better chance at landing critical hits.

2) Some of our stuns should actually work. Right now fireball and clock are the only ones that seem to have a stun affect. How about frost and gale? At least cause frost to slow the enemy down a bit, so if we are running from the warrior or rogue, we have some sort of chance to get away. And gale should give a knock down effect, but no stun, so that it knocks them down and they can get back up right away. At least it will buy us a tiny bit of time to get away or land a blow.

[yuriramos]

I said it before, but the solution here is to increase the damage of mages. This way it's a fair fight with a rogue, and this way we have some sort of chance of killing a warrior. The best way to do this is not to actually increase our damage, but instead to do the following:

1) INT points should boost Crit stat, perhaps not as much as DEX does, but somewhat so that mages have decent crit and have a better chance at landing critical hits.

2) Some of our stuns should actually work. Right now fireball and clock are the only ones that seem to have a stun affect. How about frost and gale? At least cause frost to slow the enemy down a bit, so if we are running from the warrior or rogue, we have some sort of chance to get away. And gale should give a knock down effect, but no stun, so that it knocks them down and they can get back up right away. At least it will buy us a tiny bit of time to get away or land a blow.

This is a great suggestion, since mages damage are int based, crit bonus per int should be added.

[Jerahmeel De Guzman]

Also, warriors are way too fast. Their speed and skyward smash needs to be nerffed so their speed is in light with their size and strength.

These tanks are obviously geared with v10 engines. 8'D

[JuiceBox]

Nerf Warrior HP / Def / Heal:
If warrior HP / Def / Heal is nerf, when it come to PvE, who is going to tank? Rogue / Mage?
If warrior is nerf, the damage is below moderate to give good damange.

Nerf Rogue Damage / Skill
If rogue damage / skill is nerf, does it stand a chance to fight against mage / warrior being the lowest HP and Mana?
When come to PvE, rogue play a role for AoE. Does this mean players going to die because of this tuning?

Nerf Mage Skill / Mana
If Mage is consider lowest HP compare to rogue and warrior, the skills are leet. Does that mean that their skills need to retweet?
If it is retweet, wont that mean that Mage could hardly survive on its on in PvE or PvP? Since damage and health of other races are affected, this character damage has to be affected too.

Every class has their special build. It will remain as a normal character until you have unlock the right skills / stats. What I feel is that, currently PvP work fine. Every class has their own responsibility. If it is retweet, PvE may be affected. Class will no longer be balance.

CTF is about team work. Regardless what class you are, as long as you are team player, victory is yours.

Are you saying everything is fine and don't fix anything?

Where is the warriors need a buff thread?
Where is the rogues need more DPS thread?

Warriors are not complaining at all, and rogues are complaining that they don't have enough mana for their killing streaks.

Complaining about our stuns? Did you know how much skill buttons I need to press in the right order to kill you? Never mind the fact that it takes me more than 4 button presses to kill a rogue.

Charged shield
Charged fireball
Lightning
Normal attack
Gale.

That is just my opener.

And that is not even a killing blow some of the times. And gale doesn't always knock back. To help me set up my combo again.

I'm a mage and I do get my kills in the high 20s, but that's not as regular as a rogue who gets 30+ kills. But when I go into a game with 3 warriors on the other team. Might as well forget playing once they start running together like a herd of rhinos with unlimited rage, unlimited heal with force fields on cycle.

[D-Zaak]

Are you saying everything is fine and don't fix anything?

Where is the warriors need a buff thread?
Where is the rogues need more DPS thread?

Warriors are not complaining at all, and rogues are complaining that they don't have enough mana for their killing streaks.

Complaining about our stuns? Did you know how much skill buttons I need to press in the right order to kill you? Never mind the fact that it takes me more than 4 button presses to kill a rogue.

Charged shield
Charged fireball
Lightning
Normal attack
Gale.

That is just my opener.

And that is not even a killing blow some of the times. And gale doesn't always knock back. To help me set up my combo again.

I'm a mage and I do get my kills in the high 20s, but that's not as regular as a rogue who gets 30+ kills. But when I go into a game with 3 warriors on the other team. Might as well forget playing once they start running together like a herd of rhinos with unlimited rage, unlimited heal with force fields on cycle.

Rogues aren't complaining that they have low MP. They are complaining that they need high damage/crit to compensate for low MP. At the moment, rogues have exactly that so there is no complaints, it's more complaining that mage's want rogues to be nerfed in the one area that they're good at. And that's damage dealing.

Granted that us rogues shouldn't be so easily 1/2 shotting mages, and devs need to do something about it... but lowering rogue damage isn't the answer because it is a rogue's one and only advantage as a class. If damage is nerfed then rogues will be worse than mages are right now. Rogues would have an average kill rate by die incredibly fast. The other option is to lower damage and raise HP/MP, but that just makes a rogue an average soldier.

[warbluefish]

Totally agreed. most of my friends r leaving sorc class. i felt useless in pvp.

i have to say most my kills r come from rogues and still my kills is higher than my death. but sorcs r just too weak.

rogues aimed shot has longer range than fireball this the most thing annoying me. they can kill me in one shot and i dont even have a chance to let the fireball to reach them. after the charged fireball sorcs r pretty useless. if u dont kill them in the stune then u dead.

haha i never go never a warrior because i tried with my friend i cant even kill them after two charged fireballs like use lighting during the stune time when they have buufs on. course is the most useless skill in pvp. sorc will b killed before course even take effect on the enemy. haha.

[yuriramos]

Are you saying everything is fine and don't fix anything?

Where is the warriors need a buff thread?
Where is the rogues need more DPS thread?

Warriors are not complaining at all, and rogues are complaining that they don't have enough mana for their killing streaks.

Complaining about our stuns? Did you know how much skill buttons I need to press in the right order to kill you? Never mind the fact that it takes me more than 4 button presses to kill a rogue.

Charged shield
Charged fireball
Lightning
Normal attack
Gale.

That is just my opener.

And that is not even a killing blow some of the times. And gale doesn't always knock back. To help me set up my combo again.

I'm a mage and I do get my kills in the high 20s, but that's not as regular as a rogue who gets 30+ kills. But when I go into a game with 3 warriors on the other team. Might as well forget playing once they start running together like a herd of rhinos with unlimited rage, unlimited heal with force fields on cycle.

We have the exact same combo. And yeah, theres so much effort for a mage to succeed, not mentioning maxed out gears. Rogues and warriors can own even with cheap *** winter sets and by using a skill or 2.

[Uzii]

lol wariors complaning they get 1-2 shooted... then it must be only bad gear and not right skill build. Mostly rouge is out of mana before he can kill the warroir especialy when he heals plus that long range normal attack.. wtf. i stand chance only on base with that mana cross or im lucky and warrior dont use his healing skills,

and mages frost bolt does not friez..lol there was more ice on me this morning as it is out right now. also mages can stun with lightning took me 60-70% of my hp last time..shield duration is more than 2 sec. mages healing skills with mana replenish r awsome just this morning me and one mage took down group of 3 with warrior his mana and hp regen helped me to stay alive and kill. true is i also one shooted one mage poor thing but others wasnt so easy to take down...

but is it me or does skill sometimes does not works right? i was shooting to the wall but there was opponent right in front of me but still shooting to wall

rouge kill fast but die easy too...in my caer i die a lot... usualy as a prey for group of three warriors jumping on me prooving urselfs they r man that way.

[nicoB]

Rogues aren't complaining that they have low MP. They are complaining that they need high damage/crit to compensate for low MP. At the moment, rogues have exactly that so there is no complaints, it's more complaining that mage's want rogues to be nerfed in the one area that they're good at. And that's damage dealing.

Granted that us rogues shouldn't be so easily 1/2 shotting mages, and devs need to do something about it... but lowering rogue damage isn't the answer because it is a rogue's one and only advantage as a class. If damage is nerfed then rogues will be worse than mages are right now. Rogues would have an average kill rate by die incredibly fast. The other option is to lower damage and raise HP/MP, but that just makes a rogue an average soldier.

i agree

[yuriramos]

Ranged attacks of both rogue and warriors should be nerfed. I also believe in increasing the hp of mages to avoid 1 hit kills. I dont think that nerfing rogues damage in all other skills is necessary because that will leave warriors unstoppable.

[ikavli]

Pvp is way to unbalanced!!
Warriors and rouges need to have a nerf!!
Rouges running around 1shotting and warriors have to much survivibility...

This or boost up mags

[nicoB]

Ranged attacks of both rogue and warriors should be nerfed. I also believe in increasing the hp of mages to avoid 1 hit kills. I dont think that nerfing rogues damage in all other skills is necessary because that will leave warriors unstoppable.

most mages have more HP than me...... i get one shoted a lot but i dont complain about it. and rogue have a combo thats offten mistaken for one attack when its actually 2

[JuiceBox]

Rogues aren't complaining that they have low MP. They are complaining that they need high damage/crit to compensate for low MP. At the moment, rogues have exactly that so there is no complaints, it's more complaining that mage's want rogues to be nerfed in the one area that they're good at. And that's damage dealing.

Granted that us rogues shouldn't be so easily 1/2 shotting mages, and devs need to do something about it... but lowering rogue damage isn't the answer because it is a rogue's one and only advantage as a class. If damage is nerfed then rogues will be worse than mages are right now. Rogues would have an average kill rate by die incredibly fast. The other option is to lower damage and raise HP/MP, but that just makes a rogue an average soldier.

So you're saying rogues are not complaining at all, they have exactly what they want.

I actually don't mind one shot kills as part of the game. But, as of now there are no risks with aimed shot and you get highly rewarded to use it.

Aimed shot should have a slower charging cast time or you should be stationary to use it. And one hit kills possible if it was charged.

That's my opinion.

But lets say rogues don't have aimed shot specced. Are they still the killing machines that they are?

If a rogues only viable strategy evolves around getting a first strike aimed shot. Then something is not right with your class either.

[linuxjedi]

Stamina/constitution should not scale with any class's damage stat. If a warrior wants to tank let him stat stamina. If he wants to dps let him stat strength. I do agree that a warriors base stamina should be higher than other classes though. Rogues simply need to be fixed. whether it be a glitch or whatever. Mages cannot 1-shot anything, and they die the easiest unless they skill and use shield and that makes sense, but other classes are 1 shotting with ranged attacks while mages can't.

[Uzii]

Aimed shot should have a slower charging cast time or you should be stationary to use it. And one hit kills possible if it was charged.



aim must be alwas charged to one hit someone uncharged aimed will not ko anyone. and u not alwas hit what u want to hit

[yuriramos]

Idealy , one class should be the weakness of another to balance it out. Imo, warriors<mages<rogues<warriors. No single class should own all. warriors are supposed to be slow,but high damage. Rogues with medium damage but fast dps, medium hp, mages should have the highest damage, but makes up by having weak armor. Atleast thats how i observe medieval type mmo.

[yuriramos]

aim must be alwas charged to one hit someone uncharged aimed will not ko anyone. and u not alwas hit what u want to hit

I really dont like the idea of having a 1 hit kill skill. Unless its a kamikaze style where the caster also dies. :p

[Tribalware]

I'm aware of how wildly observant that was. I was just making sure to break it down to the basics for ur simple mind to comprehend. And apparently ur still not getting it, or else u speak opposite of what u mean. Let me think... Who said that they were content with the way things r?..... U! Let me think again... Who said to please do not think I don't want a change from how it is now?...... Wait... Yeh that was me! So just stop trying to twist my words. (and btw I really am expecting my 10$)

Wha... I mean that doesn't even... What on earth are you talking about? I'm a libertarian so I believe every man woman (and child in your case) has the right to speak their minds but sometimes idiocy is tough to tolerate. I've been involved in this thread since like page 6, and I don't believe you'll have once heard me say 'I'm pretty content with the way things are'. The 'basics for ur simple mind'?, what sort of nonsense is that. Syntax and spelling errors aside I'm a freaking post-graduate with a psychology degree, I think I can get a handle on Arcane Legends. It's not a hard game, PvP is not a complicated game mode, spelling you're is not difficult either.

Dialogue is one thing but I will not be drawn into a petty argument with a minor, there are some good things being brought up and discussed here so if you don't have anything useful to say, and by this stage I'm relatively convinced that you have nothing useful to say, then stop trolling me with incomprehensible nonsense. You want to engage me then fine, do it in a way that doesn't waste space on here and accept my friend request so I can embarrass you in the arena. At least that way we'll only be wasting each others time.

So far all I've seen you do is make useless observations, accuse a top player of hacking and brag about being able to slaughter warriors when there are top mage players (myself included) telling everyone that we can chase a warrior half way across the map chaining damage spells at him without landing a kill. Once again - friend request sent, lets settle this in game and stop wasting everyone elses time.

[Itoopeo]

aim must be alwas charged to one hit someone uncharged aimed will not ko anyone. and u not alwas hit what u want to hit

I really dont like the idea of having a 1 hit kill skill. Unless its a kamikaze style where the caster also dies. :p
Thats a good idea to balance classes

[Arsies]

It's actually a "one"-hit combo. Just for those not playing rogues. So more then the aimed shot is involved mostly.

[Uzii]

I really dont like the idea of having a 1 hit kill skill. Unless its a kamikaze style where the caster also dies. :p

i realy very very rarely one hit someone but was many times koed but no one around like came from nothing but i blame no rotable camera darn u cant see whats coming in to u
and i usualy die bc aim runnung into oposite team group means instant dead too :D

[Syylent]

I play Rogue, Warrior and Mage just like many people. The funny thing is most, say 90%, of my one shot kills come against other Rogues. If I can catch a mage off guard and get a lucky crit most likely they are dead. If they throw up the shield thingy, it is a toss up. Usually I just sit there stunned until I die. I was in a map last night where almost everyone on my side left. a mage 2 tanks and a rogue where running together. Mage stuns everyone.. warriors windmill everyone.. I did get to meet another mage solo a few times at the end. Short story... I made a new friend. Our fights usually ended with me killing him (never one shot him) then a few seconds I would die from his dot. The first time it happened my wife looked at me like I was crazy as I was laughing hysterically.

Warriors are fun. A good warrior and I am dead unless I get lucky crits. Usually I get stunned, then hit them a few times and die. If I try to run away I still die because they seem to be able to swing their weapon from across the map. These things are beasts. They can be a fun fight. HOR and VB are incredible skills couple that with smash and windmill and it is pure pain.

All and all it seems pretty even. My only complaint is the danged pets. Either allow them or not, I don't really care which just make a decision. It hard to justify any changes to class balance until everyone is on an even playfield. A person with Malison vs a person without? ha.. Although I do like killing them, usually I am one shot though.

Only played the mage a couple times so am not sure on the playability in pvp. I just know that the good ones I come up against are really good.

21,21,18 are the toons levels. They aren't maxed gear.. I am poor.

I played another game a long time ago. This reminds me of that. Basically a mage type was one shotted by a rogue type. Needless to say the devs nerfed the crap out of the rogue type classes. Afterward it was realized the mage type was sitting down (greatly increased damage) and was 20+ level lower than the rogue type. Funny stuff. Fix the glitches and glits.. stop the cheating and minor tweaks here and there to classes and all looks good here. It sucks to be stunned. I've always hated be stunlocked or mezzlocked... but that's the way it is.

[Uzii]

I play Rogue, Warrior and Mage just like many people. The funny thing is most, say 90%, of my one shot kills come against other Rogues. If I can catch a mage off guard and get a lucky crit most likely they are dead. If they throw up the shield thingy, it is a toss up. Usually I just sit there stunned until I die. I was in a map last night where almost everyone on my side left. a mage 2 tanks and a rogue where running together. Mage stuns everyone.. warriors windmill everyone.. I did get to meet another mage solo a few times at the end. Short story... I made a new friend. Our fights usually ended with me killing him (never one shot him) then a few seconds I would die from his dot. The first time it happened my wife looked at me like I was crazy as I was laughing hysterically.

Warriors are fun. A good warrior and I am dead unless I get lucky crits. Usually I get stunned, then hit them a few times and die. If I try to run away I still die because they seem to be able to swing their weapon from across the map. These things are beasts. They can be a fun fight. HOR and VB are incredible skills couple that with smash and windmill and it is pure pain.

All and all it seems pretty even. My only complaint is the danged pets. Either allow them or not, I don't really care which just make a decision. It hard to justify any changes to class balance until everyone is on an even playfield. A person with Malison vs a person without? ha.. Although I do like killing them, usually I am one shot though.

Only played the mage a couple times so am not sure on the playability in pvp. I just know that the good ones I come up against are really good.

21,21,18 are the toons levels. They aren't maxed gear.. I am poor.

I played another game a long time ago. This reminds me of that. Basically a mage type was one shotted by a rogue type. Needless to say the devs nerfed the crap out of the rogue type classes. Afterward it was realized the mage type was sitting down (greatly increased damage) and was 20+ level lower than the rogue type. Funny stuff. Fix the glitches and glits.. stop the cheating and minor tweaks here and there to classes and all looks good here. It sucks to be stunned. I've always hated be stunlocked or mezzlocked... but that's the way it is.

very well said

[devilevils]

There is no response from sts at all wtf, hellowww sts i wonder if the pvp is still beta what about the leaderboard n the achievement ? Is it will be reset when the ctf or pvp not beta anymore ???

[Megabird56]

I'm aware of how wildly observant that was. I was just making sure to break it down to the basics for ur simple mind to comprehend. And apparently ur still not getting it, or else u speak opposite of what u mean. Let me think... Who said that they were content with the way things r?..... U! Let me think again... Who said to please do not think I don't want a change from how it is now?...... Wait... Yeh that was me! So just stop trying to twist my words. (and btw I really am expecting my 10$)

Wha... I mean that doesn't even... What on earth are you talking about? I'm a libertarian so I believe every man woman (and child in your case) has the right to speak their minds but sometimes idiocy is tough to tolerate. I've been involved in this thread since like page 6, and I don't believe you'll have once heard me say 'I'm pretty content with the way things are'. The 'basics for ur simple mind'?, what sort of nonsense is that. Syntax and spelling errors aside I'm a freaking post-graduate with a psychology degree, I think I can get a handle on Arcane Legends. It's not a hard game, PvP is not a complicated game mode, spelling you're is not difficult either.

Dialogue is one thing but I will not be drawn into a petty argument with a minor, there are some good things being brought up and discussed here so if you don't have anything useful to say, and by this stage I'm relatively convinced that you have nothing useful to say, then stop trolling me with incomprehensible nonsense. You want to engage me then fine, do it in a way that doesn't waste space on here and accept my friend request so I can embarrass you in the arena. At least that way we'll only be wasting each others time.

So far all I've seen you do is make useless observations, accuse a top player of hacking and brag about being able to slaughter warriors when there are top mage players (myself included) telling everyone that we can chase a warrior half way across the map chaining damage spells at him without landing a kill. Once again - friend request sent, lets settle this in game and stop wasting everyone elses time.

Just ignore that mage person. He just likes being a contrarian to cause trouble and for attention. You know right away he is liar when he says he owns warriors 1v1, so there is no point in arguing with ppl that make things up because more lies just get thrown in and it becomes an endless cycle.

[Vystirch]

Just ignore that mage person. He just likes being a contrarian to cause trouble and for attention. You know right away he is liar when he says he owns warriors 1v1, so there is no point in arguing with ppl that make things up because more lies just get thrown in and it becomes an endless cycle.

Warriors can be 1v1ed by mages and rouges and of course another war.

[Cashews]

I mainly play as a rogue. My char is maxed minus a couple points. While my charged aim shot can hit 2400+ damage with no buffs it very rarely does. My average aimed shot crit is around 1500. That's if it even crits. If it doesn't I hit around 600 damage depending on the target. Not only do I have all these things working against me getting that high damage crit, roughly 50% if the time my arrow flies off in a random direction nowhere near an enemy due to some kind of freakish lag. Oh, I forgot to mention that I am frequently 1KOed by rogues, 2 hit KOed by sorc, and 3 hit KOed by warrior. I rarely am able to beat a sorc if my first shot doesn't KO him outright due to shield/fireball/lightning combo. But, I'm ok with all of this. My class can kill as easily as it can die, therefore, it is balanced.

[Vystirch]

I mainly play as a rogue. My char is maxed minus a couple points. While my charged aim shot can hit 2400+ damage with no buffs it very rarely does. My average aimed shot crit is around 1500. That's if it even crits. If it doesn't I hit around 600 damage depending on the target. Not only do I have all these things working against me getting that high damage crit, roughly 50% if the time my arrow flies off in a random direction nowhere near an enemy due to some kind of freakish lag. Oh, I forgot to mention that I am frequently 1KOed by rogues, 2 hit KOed by sorc, and 3 hit KOed by warrior. I rarely am able to beat a sorc if my first shot doesn't KO him outright due to shield/fireball/lightning combo. But, I'm ok with all of this. My class can kill as easily as it can die, therefore, it is balanced.

Yes it is balanced.

[Melodicdeath]

I would have preferred the respecs to be free, considering everyone is experimenting with builds in high frequency to find a shoe that fits...Ive personally spent 15 plat already :(

In the beginning I would have said otherwise, but since Ive played A LOT the past few days, I cant really say if a particular class is op or not. Ive witnessed every class get massively slaughtered at some point....I believe variables come into play, highly referring to the way a player is spec'd and what they're equipped with, rather than a class unbalance issue. Ive 1 shot rouges and wars with a crit shot of lightning ( granted wars were already slightly weakened by a previous hit from someone else) but 250 damage is a pretty nice hit ;)....on the flip side, Ive been 1 shot by both classes... So in conclusion...Im feelin the game is pretty balanced give or take a few discrepancies with the amount of damage dealt with certain skills and buff duration.

Also, there are ALOT of blind spots, a rotating camera at least for pvp would be nice.

[Vystirch]

Also, there are ALOT of blind spots, a rotating camera at least for pvp would be nice.

Melo I look at it as if it adds strategy, you can sneak around players and attack from behind this is fun.

[JuiceBox]

I mainly play as a rogue. My char is maxed minus a couple points. While my charged aim shot can hit 2400+ damage with no buffs it very rarely does. My average aimed shot crit is around 1500. That's if it even crits. If it doesn't I hit around 600 damage depending on the target. Not only do I have all these things working against me getting that high damage crit, roughly 50% if the time my arrow flies off in a random direction nowhere near an enemy due to some kind of freakish lag. Oh, I forgot to mention that I am frequently 1KOed by rogues, 2 hit KOed by sorc, and 3 hit KOed by warrior. I rarely am able to beat a sorc if my first shot doesn't KO him outright due to shield/fireball/lightning combo. But, I'm ok with all of this. My class can kill as easily as it can die, therefore, it is balanced.

Seriously you and everyone defending are satisfied with this?

Who can quick draw the fastest? Aimed shot vs shield?

This game has the potential to be much deeper than that.

You guys are keeping great and fun things to happen for your class just to keep something that is obviously broken.

There is no skill involve in using aimed shot and since all your other skills do strong damage too, all you need is a follow up.

Mages owning you if they shield? Yeah that's a problem for your class. You don't have a proper escape tool.

Why not asking for Smoke bomb to give u invisibility while in the smoke and u can't be auto targeted?

Ask for cool stuff like that.

Don't say devs can't do this or that.. Unless you're part of the dev team what do you know?

I look forward to pvp games with different strategies.

Have you ever had a fight that lasted longer than it should. And you meet up with the same person and have another epic fight. From them on whenever you meet you have a mutual respect for each others skills.

That stuff feels good.

Most of the time i get frustrated and want to punch that warrior through the screen or scoff at all rogues dismissing all their skills and say they are nothing without their aimed shot.

I'm not saying that the rogue and warriors are not skilled players, but take their skills and boost them 10 times more with superior survivabiltiy or damage. Where does that leave a Mage? What did we get? A shield to watch everyone else have fun just a little longer.

[Melodicdeath]

Melo I look at it as if it adds strategy, you can sneak around players and attack from behind this is fun.

Hehe...yup it IS fun....Im sometimes hired as a contract killing sniper mage ;D However I remain with my stance, camera would be nice.

[Melodicdeath]

Seriously you and everyone defending are satisfied with this?

Who can quick draw the fastest? Aimed shot vs shield?

This game has the potential to be much deeper than that.

You guys are keeping great and fun things to happen for your class just to keep something that is obviously broken.

There is no skill involve in using aimed shot and since all your other skills do strong damage too, all you need is a follow up.

Mages owning you if they shield? Yeah that's a problem for your class. You don't have a proper escape tool.

Why not asking for Smoke bomb to give u invisibility while in the smoke and u can't be auto targeted?

Ask for cool stuff like that.

Don't say devs can't do this or that.. Unless you're part of the dev team what do you know?

I look forward to pvp games with different strategies.

Have you ever had a fight that lasted longer than it should. And you meet up with the same person and have another epic fight. From them on whenever you meet you have a mutual respect for each others skills.

That stuff feels good.

Most of the time i get frustrated and want to punch that warrior through the screen or scoff at all rogues dismissing all their skills and say they are nothing without their aimed shot.

I'm not saying that the rogue and warriors are not skilled players, but take their skills and boost them 10 times more with superior survivabiltiy or damage. Where does that leave a Mage? What did we get? A shield to watch everyone else have fun just a little longer.

I can respect that. I see where you're coming from, being a mage myself.

"Have you ever had a fight that lasted longer than it should. And you meet up with the same person and have another epic fight. From them on whenever you meet you have a mutual respect for each others skills."- This I certainly agree with, there are definitely players who have earned my respect...some of them I fear lol.

[Erdnase]

The more and more i play, the more and more i fill its equal, as cashews and vystirch said above. I've tried to explain before why some of u think its so unbalanced, but some people said it was just speaking the obvious, so i want bother saying it again. I'm just going to give my final opinion on what could possibly be done, then leave this thread (as long as tribalware finally shuts up).

My complaints on the rogue is... not too much. A lot of people want to take away the rogues big dmg, but this would be unfair, as many of the rogues on here have said, dmg is their only up. So my only suggestion would be to lower the range on the aimed shot to that of the fire ball, so it will still give rogues the high dmg, but not be so unfair that the mages can't defend.

For warriors... well a little bit more. First off the horn of renew shouldn't have the protective shield. Its too much like the mage's arcane shield. It should just heal and not give invincibility (tho this isn't too bothersome because its only 2 seconds). Skyward smash has the stun.... hmmmm this really doesn't bother me either, tho it could be nerfed or even just shortened on the time of the stun by a half a sec or so. And lastly, the axe throw's range should be shortened to that of the fire ball, making all the ranges equal.

And for the mage... hmmmm with the other classes with the same range as a mage its probably more than equal already. Yet it would still be nice to have the mage's freeze to slow the enemy, and if it was to freeze, the dmg on the freeze could be taken away. Lastly, the stun time on the fire ball could be shortened a little, if it is found to still be slightly unequal after the other changes.

Ty dev team for putting up with all our mixed opinions and bickering. Great work so far, and i'm sure you will keep it up.

[Vystirch]

The more and more i play, the more and more i fill its equal, as cashews and vystirch said above. I've tried to explain before why some of u think its so unbalanced, but some people said it was just speaking the obvious, so i want bother saying it again. I'm just going to give my final opinion on what could possibly be done, then leave this thread (as long as tribalware finally shuts up).

My complaints on the rogue is... not too much. A lot of people want to take away the rogues big dmg, but this would be unfair, as many of the rogues on here have said, dmg is their only up. So my only suggestion would be to lower the range on the aimed shot to that of the fire ball, so it will still give rogues the high dmg, but not be so unfair that the mages can't defend.

For warriors... well a little bit more. First off the horn of renew shouldn't have the protective shield. Its too much like the mage's arcane shield. It should just heal and not give invincibility (tho this isn't too bothersome because its only 2 seconds). Skyward smash has the stun.... hmmmm this really doesn't bother me either, tho it could be nerfed or even just shortened on the time of the stun by a half a sec or so. And lastly, the axe throw's range should be shortened to that of the fire ball, making all the ranges equal.

And for the mage... hmmmm with the other classes with the same range as a mage its probably more than equal already. Yet it would still be nice to have the mage's freeze to slow the enemy, and if it was to freeze, the dmg on the freeze could be taken away. Lastly, the stun time on the fire ball could be shortened a little, if it is found to still be slightly unequal after the other changes.

Ty dev team for putting up with all our mixed opinions and bickering. Great work so far, and i'm sure you will keep it up.

Yes this is so well worded.
Maybe the horn could just give a 50% reduction instead of invincibility.

Add me ig: Vystirch

[linuxjedi]

I cant say warr vs sorc is fair. Sorc has to repeatedly damage and kite the warr. If the warr is running the flag and nothing else, a sorc cantstop him if he has heals etc. If not he still only has to make it half way to get to a heal cross. If its a 1v1 the mage has to have shields and heals no matter what the warr has, pretty much. If the mage has shield heal, fire to reduce hit, and wind for dodge, he might win. If the warr has heals it will negate the mage heals basically and we all know a sorc wont beat a warr without heals.

[Uzii]

oke so just now we get owned by mages bufing up and healing each other stunning and beating up everyone to dead. practicly no chance to move at all and jsut watch like lightning strike upon ur head and u dead in 1-2 sec. mybe is just lag i couldnt fire my skills properly if they were fired at all when i pressed them (ping was fine). but if no that shield last more then 2 sec its like 4-5 maybe 6..thats pretty much time for charging 2 skills and beating someone to dead and have shield still on..
before i got even chance to fire an arrow i was stun with fireball coming through corner wall..

As it seems now only few mages r now possible to be one shooted as r rouges. and mages can beat up a rouge in few sec too so its unbalanced or balanced? i think everyone have same chance to survive and kill..maybe a rouge in disatvantage here a bit as he cant move from stun. making razor shield upgrade realy working that removes slow effect or can make duration of stunts lower bc killing someone takes only few sec and stunts last all the time till im beating to dead will give a rouge chance to defend urself

[Erdnase]

Yes this is so well worded.
Maybe the horn could just give a 50% reduction instead of invincibility.

Add me ig: Vystirch

ty vy, i appreciate some positive words in reply to me for once lol. and yeah, i could live with the 50% reduction

[Vystirch]

ty vy, i appreciate some positive words in reply to me for once lol

Me also, that's why I offered my ign :)

[Tribalware]

Just ignore that mage person. He just likes being a contrarian to cause trouble and for attention. You know right away he is liar when he says he owns warriors 1v1, so there is no point in arguing with ppl that make things up because more lies just get thrown in and it becomes an endless cycle.

Yeah you're totally right, not getting trolled by idiots is like rule number one of the forum users handbook. Once they've got you on the defensive they're winning somehow. Couple of points that would help balance matches without the need to change anything (I've been running into 'warrior teams' all day, it is no fun at all to play and they think it's hilarious to run around in three's spawn killing rogues and mages like frat bullies knocking geeks' glasses off their heads in the lunch line)

1) Bite me Erdnase (I taste good)
2) Class identification stamps at the team selection screen, that way we can try and balance out or back away from a fight we know will be futile before getting depressingly dragged into it. This would seem to be an obvious one.
3) HP bars have already been mentioned but I'll chuck it in again. I'd like to know just how far from taking a warrior down I actually am, because I have a feeling that I'm getting nowhere near. (Once again - follow a warrior all the way back from my base to his base, unload 3200 mana at 276 dps into the back of his head and he doesn't even need to take notice. Just throws up that obscene shield/hp buff. Why is that ability so powerful when the class that is supposed to be the best damage dealer can't even make a kill while the warrior's back is turned).

Mages do not need (or really want) a HP buff. If there are honest warriors here saying that they feel underpowered when facing rogue damage abilities and my sorc can't scratch a warrior at all then I don't think a bit more HP is going to do us any good.

Mages need a damage buff and a skill overhaul. (Or a skill re-overhaul seeing as you overhauled them into a ditch pre pvp). Fix frost, I say fix because people seem to be treating the fact it doesn't do anything as some sort of bug and rightly so. And if you're going to put us into a situation where we have to spec for shield because there is literally no other way to survive (because we hate that lame spell, we really do) then buff that a bit. Considering the damage rogues are dealing, up the amount it can take before collapsing, give us those 2 secs of invulnerability without a charge so we can use them when we really need them.

Warriors need a HP nerf, not to be able to outrange my spells with a bow ranged sword (I mean what is that? I can't run away even when they're not using skyward smash), fewer stuns and less powerful support skills. Or maybe just one or two of those things, but essentially warriors shouldn't be allowed to have everything. They are barbarians, not medics or assassins or stun artists. Neither should they be so effective at AoE (that's OUR thing you damned apes) but I'm willing to work around that one, at least it doesn't have a 14m range like their standard attack seems to.

Rogues are powerful, currently in relation to a sorc they are too powerful but I'd wait to see the effects of the above mentioned mage buffs before saying they need an outright nerf. They're taking down warriors who are very upset about that you say? Good, that should be their niche. But they should be more afraid of facing sorcs than they are, taking down rogues should be our job because we should have a fast, consistent supply of damage spells and the stuns and freeze effects to sedate them long enough to get the job done. I love facing rogues 1vs.1 in PvP because it's the closest I get to a decent challenge but even then the fight feels cheap a lot of the time.

27 kills has been my record for one ctf game so far, facing what was mostly a rogue team and I was by no means the top scorer. Bear in mind I've gone to the trouble of maxing my passive int, my passive damage (which doesnt show on the avatar screen but should following the next proper patch) and using the support of a pet that adds 10% damage (also which does not show but functions). So I have maxed my absolute balls off, I use three damage spells on loop and take advantage of a whole other 15% of invisible damage increase and it's still not often I get to nail a rogue to the ground. (Fireballs stun is nice, but it's not enough for a magic user when rogues and warriors have snares and equally effective stuns).

Once again just to clarify - I'm discussing endgame PvP. Lvl 21 full demonlord, clever flamestrike of assault and all the trinkets and passive boosts that add to my damage score.

[Tribalware]

Warriors can be 1v1ed by mages and rouges and of course another war.

No, they can't. Does anyone else here with experience in endgame PvP want to chime in and agree that a mage can beat a warrior 1vs.1? Obviously assuming they both have full health and mana. I just don't see where posts like this are coming from, I don't mind not being able to take down a warrior 1vs1, maybe that's not my job. But I wish people would stop coming out of nowhere and making out like it's even possible let alone common place for this to happen.

Sorcs beating warriors? Cut us all a break would you, seriously now.

[Vystirch]

No, they can't. Does anyone else here with experience in endgame PvP want to chime in and agree that a mage can beat a warrior 1vs.1? Obviously assuming they both have full health and mana. I just don't see where posts like this are coming from, I don't mind not being able to take down a warrior 1vs1, maybe that's not my job. But I wish people would stop coming out of nowhere and making out like it's even possible let alone common place for this to happen.

Sorcs beating warriors? Cut us all a break would you, seriously now.

Well first of your should no that I pretty much have the top pvpers of the classes in my guild. At least I think so. Ill give you just one name: applejaqs is one of them. He and I can solo another tank.

[Tribalware]

Well first of your should no that I pretty much have the top pvpers of the classes in my guild. At least I think so. Ill give you just one name: applejaqs is one of them. He and I can solo another tank.

No one's disputing that, I've PvP'd with applejaq he's a rogue. But what you said was 'Warriors can be 1v1ed by mages', and now you're backing that up by saying that the top ranking ctf kills player can solo a warrior? Well obviously that's true.

[Vystirch]

No one's disputing that, I've PvP'd with applejaq he's a rogue. But what you said was 'Warriors can be 1v1ed by mages', and now you're backing that up by saying that the top ranking ctf kills player can solo a warrior? Well obviously that's true.

Yes, pm my top two mages, melodicdeath, and drgrimmy. They don't win every time but they do win 50-50.

[Erdnase]

Me also, that's why I offered my ign :)
I sent a request :)

[nicoB]

I play Rogue, Warrior and Mage just like many. people. The funny thing is most, say 90%, of my one shot kills come against other Rogues. If I can catch a mage off guard and get a lucky crit most likely they are dead. If they throw up the shield thingy, it is a toss up. Usually I just sit there stunned until I die. I was in a map last night where almost everyone on my side left. a mage 2 tanks and a rogue where running together. Mage stuns everyone.. warriors windmill everyone.. I did get to meet another mage solo a few times at the end. Short story... I made a new friend. Our fights usually ended with me killing him (never one shot him) then a few seconds I would die from his dot. The first time it happened my wife looked at me like I was crazy as I was laughing hysterically.

Warriors are fun. A good warrior and I am dead unless I get lucky crits. Usually I get stunned, then hit them a few times and die. If I try to run away I still die because they seem to be able to swing their weapon from across the map. These things are beasts. They can be a fun fight. HOR and VB are incredible skills couple that with smash and windmill and it is pure pain.

All and all it seems pretty even. My only complaint is the danged pets. Either allow them or not, I don't really care which just make a decision. It hard to justify any changes to class balance until everyone is on an even playfield. A person with Malison vs a person without? ha.. Although I do like killing them, usually I am one shot though.

Only played the mage a couple times so am not sure on the playability in pvp. I just know that the good ones I come up against are really good.

21,21,18 are the toons levels. They aren't maxed gear.. I am poor.

I played another game a long time ago. This reminds me of that. Basically a mage type was one shotted by a rogue type. Needless to say the devs nerfed the crap out of the rogue type classes. Afterward it was realized the mage type was sitting down (greatly increased damage) and was 20+ level lower than the rogue type. Funny stuff. Fix the glitches and glits.. stop the cheating and minor tweaks here and there to classes and all looks good here. It sucks to be stunned. I've always hated be stunlocked or mezzlocked... but that's the way it is.

Lol this is so true!!! i agree 100%! this is one of the most true statements in this thread

[nicoB]

It's actually a "one"-hit combo. Just for those not. playing rogues. So more then the aimed shot is involved mostly.

This is also true

[nicoB]

I mainly play as a rogue. My char is maxed. minus a couple points. While my charged aim shot can hit 2400+ damage with no buffs it very rarely does. My average aimed shot crit is around 1500. That's if it even crits. If it doesn't I hit around 600 damage depending on the target. Not only do I have all these things working against me getting that high damage crit, roughly 50% if the time my arrow flies off in a random direction nowhere near an enemy due to some kind of freakish lag. Oh, I forgot to mention that I am frequently 1KOed by rogues, 2 hit KOed by sorc, and 3 hit KOed by warrior. I rarely am able to beat a sorc if my first shot doesn't KO him outright due to shield/fireball/lightning combo. But, I'm ok with all of this. My class can kill as easily as it can die, therefore, it is balanced.

This is also very true

[Tribalware]

u keep wondering where these people r coming from, but more and more keep coming. So have u ever thought that u might be wrong? Or is that too much for ur narcissistic personality to handle?

A little unecessary and childish but that's cool, I'll roll with it (really though, bite me again I like it). I often consider the possibility that I'm wrong about the things I say, but the more I PvP the more I fail to see mages soloing warriors. Ever. Which is what we're talking about by the way for anyone else reading, just so this back and forth doesn't degenerate any further into an entirely useless mud slinging match.

We have two players who are arguing that as the class balance system stands mages are able to solo warriors, and another 14 pages of players who are all (for the most part) throwing up the same things, most noticeably that warriors are overpowered and mages are underpowered. I'm putting it to you that even if the system was balanced properly, which it isn't, then a mage shouldn't really be able to solo a warrior. Not unless they take away all a warriors stuns and closing moves, nerf their heal and give us mages a proper freeze. So if it wouldn't make sense in a balanced system I really don't see it happening in one where mages are at an inherent disadvantage anyway.

I'm just saying it's a little daft to give feedback that suggests sorcs are 1v1ing warriors, because it isn't happening.

[nicoB]

oke so just now we get owned by mages bufing up and healing each other stunning and. beating up everyone to dead. practicly no chance to move at all and jsut watch like lightning strike upon ur head and u dead in 1-2 sec. mybe is just lag i couldnt fire my skills properly if they were fired at all when i pressed them (ping was fine). but if no that shield last more then 2 sec its like 4-5 maybe 6..thats pretty much time for charging 2 skills and beating someone to dead and have shield still on..
before i got even chance to fire an arrow i was stun with fireball coming through corner wall..

As it seems now only few mages r now possible to be one shooted as r rouges. and mages can beat up a rouge in few sec too so its unbalanced or balanced? i think everyone have same chance to survive and kill..maybe a rouge in disatvantage here a bit as he cant move from stun. making razor shield upgrade realy working that removes slow effect or can make duration of stunts lower bc killing someone takes only few sec and stunts last all the time till im beating to dead will give a rouge chance to defend urself

So true, and people laughed at me because i said that mages can own a whole arena -_- well guess whos laughing now! :)

[JuiceBox]

No, they can't. Does anyone else here with experience in endgame PvP want to chime in and agree that a mage can beat a warrior 1vs.1? Obviously assuming they both have full health and mana. I just don't see where posts like this are coming from, I don't mind not being able to take down a warrior 1vs1, maybe that's not my job. But I wish people would stop coming out of nowhere and making out like it's even possible let alone common place for this to happen.

Sorcs beating warriors? Cut us all a break would you, seriously now.

I second this.

Why is it always a a non mage saying that their bestfriend's friends friend is a top mage is having no problems and owning warriors.

I'm having problems killing those warriors. And now they travel in 2s and 3s.
Better yet to prove a point.

Someone name your mage II'll use my warrior.
I'll go spec that dreaded skyward smash (high damage, stun, flies across the map), whirlwind(aoe dps snare), juggernaut,(500heal), vengeful blood (500heal+mana regent+crit buff).

1vs1 let's see. Maybe I need lessons playing my mage.

[nicoB]

A little unecessary and childish but that's. cool, I'll roll with it (really though, bite me again I like it). I often consider the possibility that I'm wrong about the things I say, but the more I PvP the more I fail to see mages soloing warriors. Ever. Which is what we're talking about by the way for anyone else reading, just so this back and forth doesn't degenerate any further into an entirely useless mud slinging match.

We have two players who are arguing that as the class balance system stands mages are able to solo warriors, and another 14 pages of players who are all (for the most part) throwing up the same things, most noticeably that warriors are overpowered and mages are underpowered. I'm putting it to you that even if the system was balanced properly, which it isn't, then a mage shouldn't really be able to solo a warrior. Not unless they take away all a warriors stuns and closing moves, nerf their heal and give us mages a proper freeze. So if it wouldn't make sense in a balanced system I really don't see it happening in one where mages are at an inherent disadvantage anyway.

I'm just saying it's a little daft to give feedback that suggests sorcs are 1v1ing warriors, because it isn't happening.

I'm sorry tribal but i will have to disagree. i dont want to start another arument berween us. but it dosent happen all the time but sometimes you can see mage solo a warrior. most of the time the warrior is wearing winter wonder land and some other legendary armor. but ive caught a mage beat a warrior with full demonlord and full juggernaut......but maybe the warriors just sucked. i have no idea. i just know that i could beat them...but I'm a rogue so I'm supposed to

[yuriramos]

most mages have more HP than me...... i get one shoted a lot but i dont complain about it. and rogue have a combo thats offten mistaken for one attack when its actually 2

Of course you wont complain if you get one shotted.. thats because you have that capacity too. If i have the skill to do one shot kill, i wont be complaining "hey pls nerf me, im too strong for this".

[JuiceBox]

I'm sorry tribal but i will have to disagree. i dont want to start another arument berween us. but it dosent happen all the time but sometimes you can see mage solo a warrior. most of the time the warrior is wearing winter wonder land and some other legendary armor. but ive caught a mage beat a warrior with full demonlord and full juggernaut......but maybe the warriors just sucked. i have no idea. i just know that i could beat them...but I'm a rogue so I'm supposed to

Find me a mage and I'll look for him. 1v1 with my warrior.
If not me I'll even suggest another warrior.

If he can beat me the majority of times, I'll gladly post here that I'm wrong.

My warrior is RazorApple. I already respecced and played him a bit. I made 2 mages and a rogue leave the arena in one game and felt bad about it. I'm looking for a mage that can solo me as you've said they could.

I haven't found one yet.

[Tribalware]

That's really quite sad that you'd go to so much effort. And that you'd take the intellectual high ground over one spelling mistake and then confuse the words feel and fill. Just cut it out will you, Juicebox has thrown down a perfectly reasonable challenge, call it an ingame test. We'll PvP and have you go up against his warrior 1v1 say 10 times and record the wins and losses.

Seems like a better way to settle a debate than trolling, name calling and (?!) fake quoting don't you think? So lets set it up. NicoB you can be in on this too, we'll all get together and watch. I'll have a crack at his warrior too and we can compare tactics etc. in a semi-controlled sort of environment.

Obviously everyones seen a mage kill a warrior, but without hp or mana bars there's no way of knowing what sort of state that warrior was in when he got taken down, this way we can be sure both parties have full hp and are focused only on each other, proper 1vs1 like we've been discussing. Juice has thrown down the gauntlet, sound good?

EDIT: It's also occurred to me that whilst I'm sure you have the best intentions NicoB, you did just say that you don't actually play as a mage. So you're experience of mages soloing warriors is second hand at best. I'm not sure you can really disagree with me over what it's like to go solo as a mage against a warrior without ever having actually played a mage yourself. All due respect intended, I'm sure you're a great rogue but if we're talking about warriors vs. mages then the opinions of warriors and mages are the only ones that are going to be well informed.

[nicoB]

That's really quite sad that you'd go to so. much effort. And that you'd take the intellectual high ground over one spelling mistake and then confuse the words feel and fill. Just cut it out will you, Juicebox has thrown down a perfectly reasonable challenge, call it an ingame test. We'll PvP and have you go up against his warrior 1v1 say 10 times and record the wins and losses.

Seems like a better way to settle a debate than trolling, name calling and (?!) fake quoting don't you think? So lets set it up. NicoB you can be in on this too, we'll all get together and watch. I'll have a crack at his warrior too and we can compare tactics etc. in a semi-controlled sort of environment.

Obviously everyones seen a mage kill a warrior, but without hp or mana bars there's no way of knowing what sort of state that warrior was in when he got taken down, this way we can be sure both parties have full hp and are focused only on each other, proper 1vs1 like we've been discussing. Juice has thrown down the gauntlet, sound good?

EDIT: It's also occurred to me that whilst I'm sure you have the best intentions NicoB, you did just say that you don't actually play as a mage. So you're experience of mages soloing warriors is second hand at best. I'm not sure you can really disagree with me over what it's like to go solo as a mage against a warrior without ever having actually played a mage yourself. All due respect intended, I'm sure you're a great rogue but if we're talking about warriors vs. mages then the opinions of warriors and mages are the only ones that are going to be well informed.

Fair enough

[Tribalware]

I second this.

Why is it always a a non mage saying that their bestfriend's friends friend is a top mage is having no problems and owning warriors.

I'm having problems killing those warriors. And now they travel in 2s and 3s.
Better yet to prove a point.

Someone name your mage II'll use my warrior.
I'll go spec that dreaded skyward smash (high damage, stun, flies across the map), whirlwind(aoe dps snare), juggernaut,(500heal), vengeful blood (500heal+mana regent+crit buff).

1vs1 let's see. Maybe I need lessons playing my mage.

There's the challenge, I think it could be fun if we can all agree to get together in game without shouting 'noob' at each other. He has a point here though, Juice and I are mages making claims about warriors vs. mages and the people disagreeing with us are either rogues saying 'but i see it happen, mages must totally pwn' or... other rogues saying 'I've got two mage friends who totally pwn like maybe... 50% of the time'. But neither of you are mages, you're not even warriors. Meaning you're totally unsuited to be talking about a mage and a warrior going 1v1 properly. There is of course also erdnase, the only actual mage to be arguing with us. But I'm not entirely sure what his point is anymore.

EDIT: Hey Juicebox what are your IGN's? We'll check each others stats out so that you can verify me as maxed and then we'll kickstart this little experiment by you trashing me in the arena 10 or so times. I've got a couple of new specs I want to try against you, current plat count on respecs - 40. Curse you sts.

[linuxjedi]

Guys, you have made some excellent points, but there is way too much noise here. The devs may be relying on reading these forums to decide what changes need to be made. Please help them by keeping the amount of trolling to a minimum. Likewise don't feed them either. Ty.

[Cashews]

There is no point in 1v1 to see which class is more powerful. All you have to do is look at a simple combat triangle. Note that this triangle relies on all classes being full or evenly specced statwise.
WARRIOR>SORC>ROGUE>WARRIOR
Now obviously you can't have warriors beat sorc every single time or have sorc beat rogues every single time. Each class has a "counter skill" to keep this from happening. The counter skill is not always effective but it does give you a chance to "even the odds". Aimed shot is the counter skill, and also main damage skill, for rogues. Warriors have heals to counter the rogues high damage. Sorc have stuns, that also act offensively, to slow warriors down so they can kill them from afar. Lots of individual skills have counter skills too. Take windmill for example. It can be countered by a charged shadow pierce or a sorc shield and stuns. Over time I think most people figure this out even if it doesn't actually cross their mind.

[Patricks]

No one's disputing that, I've PvP'd with applejaq he's a rogue. But what you said was 'Warriors can be 1v1ed by mages', and now you're backing that up by saying that the top ranking ctf kills player can solo a warrior? Well obviously that's true.

Yes, pm my top two mages, melodicdeath, and drgrimmy. They don't win every time but they do win 50-50.

Tbh, i dont think drgrimmy would say mage vs warrior 1v1 both in comparably top spec would be 50/50 odds as he has expressed similar grievances about mages, but i cant be certain of what he would say. I can only say drgrimmy is a very nice dude.

[Jerahmeel De Guzman]

Do all of the mages AoE crowd control skills work?
On that note, can rogues and warriors dash/sky smash pass through a charged time shift?
Also, can warriors and rogues dash/sky smash with the flag without slowing them down?
Why can the big elephant class keep up with the other classes in terms of speed?

[JuiceBox]

There's the challenge, I think it could be fun if we can all agree to get together in game without shouting 'noob' at each other. He has a point here though, Juice and I are mages making claims about warriors vs. mages and the people disagreeing with us are either rogues saying 'but i see it happen, mages must totally pwn' or... other rogues saying 'I've got two mage friends who totally pwn like maybe... 50% of the time'. But neither of you are mages, you're not even warriors. Meaning you're totally unsuited to be talking about a mage and a warrior going 1v1 properly. There is of course also erdnase, the only actual mage to be arguing with us. But I'm not entirely sure what his point is anymore.

EDIT: Hey Juicebox what are your IGN's? We'll check each others stats out so that you can verify me as maxed and then we'll kickstart this little experiment by you trashing me in the arena 10 or so times. I've got a couple of new specs I want to try against you, current plat count on respecs - 40. Curse you sts.

Mage - JuiceBox
Warrior - RazorApple

Feel free to test your mage against my warrior.
He is wearing lvl 21 Demonlord Grace.
That's all str based + dex armor with % to dodge. With matching jewelry.

I have for weapons vorpal assault and protector grace.

So of course I have low int which is not a concern as vengeance keeps my mana full.

I also have full str passive.

Also I don't play my warrior in PvP. Proof will be the low CTF kills or flag capture. As I prefer to play my mage.

Can't wait to test this with you guys. As I genuinely want to prove that I'm wrong. Rogues are welcome to test as well.

I did not make my build up, I took it from a warrior thread and it is very powerful.

So kite me, go toe to toe.. try what you must to beat me 1v1. This is an open challenge to any rogues or mages.

I don't claim to be the best warrior I'm far from it. I'm trying to prove how endgame gear and the right skills make warriors unmatched.

Just find me in game and friend me and we can get started. Starting tomorrow :-)

[Tribalware]

Do all of the mages AoE crowd control skills work?
On that note, can rogues and warriors dash/sky smash pass through a charged time shift?
Also, can warriors and rogues dash/sky smash with the flag without slowing them down?
Why can the big elephant class keep up with the other classes in terms of speed?

Fireball still delivers a stun but it's our only stun. All of the frost skills are redundant as they don't slow or freeze. Yes skyward and dash work with the flag, no the speed buff from gale for mages does not. Skyward and dash also breeze straight through a charged clock with the root perk added. These skills also seem to grant a brief moment of invulnerability against our stun, as loosing a fireball once a rogue or warrior jumps seems to cause an automatic miss. Skyward however does stun, and a warriors standard attack seems to outrange mine.

To Juice - looking forward to taking a beating tomorrow. After you've killed me a few times maybe we could try standing in a room and just have me chain three damage spells at you, all you're allowed to use are your hp buffs. I bet you my mana runs out before you go down ;) Int - 304, Dps - 275.3, mana - 3190

[JuiceBox]

Fireball still delivers a stun but it's our only stun. All of the frost skills are redundant as they don't slow or freeze. Yes skyward and dash work with the flag, no the speed buff from gale for mages does not. Skyward and dash also breeze straight through a charged clock with the root perk added. These skills also seem to grant a brief moment of invulnerability against our stun, as loosing a fireball once a rogue or warrior jumps seems to cause an automatic miss. Skyward however does stun, and a warriors standard attack seems to outrange mine.

To Juice - looking forward to taking a beating tomorrow. After you've killed me a few times maybe we could try standing in a room and just have me chain three damage spells at you, all you're allowed to use are your hp buffs. I bet you my mana runs out before you go down ;) Int - 304, Dps - 275.3, mana - 3190

Of course knock yourself out! U can even practice your combos.

From playing with this build though I'm pretty sure you will be able to kill me eventually if I don't interrupt your spells and just stood still. As I don't have the warriors shield spell that heals and makes me invulnerable.

This build is more for pvping than running flags.. But who needs to run when there's no one alive to chase you.

Pvping 2 mages at the same time is doable but not 3.

To everyone else who wants to leave the thread or says there is no point in this. What's the best way to prove that an endgame mage cannot beat an endgame warrior 1v1other than having just that a mage vs a warrior.

Honestly I believe I can even claim this. I don't think there is a mage out there that can beat my warrior 1vs1. And I'm not even pro.

If you are a mage or you know one who can. Let's do this. I want to learn how.

[linuxjedi]

Sorc gale wind can stun. I prefer to use fire for stun first and then follow with wind as i talented it for dodge. No need for dodge while theyre cc'd.

[Vystirch]

Tbh, i dont think drgrimmy would say mage vs warrior 1v1 both in comparably top spec would be 50/50 odds as he has expressed similar grievances about mages, but i cant be certain of what he would say. I can only say drgrimmy is a very nice dude.

Well I have had melo say that she is doing very well against warriors currently. But meh, it is true that the hardest to play is sorcerer.

[linuxjedi]

I hold up pretty good against warriors until they start critting. For at least part of the fight they only have a 50% chance to hit me, and about 50% of those hits will be while im shielded. Sorc warr matches go on so long though sometimes they can be hard to finish before someone else comes in and kill steals.

[IiMerchii]

Rouge r so underpowreded!!!! Why u no mak classes balanced!?!?!? Inconceivable

[Energizeric]

I will agree with the complaints about mage vs. warrior. I'm a pretty skilled mage. I know this because when I face other mages, I win about 80% of the time, and most of the time I still got 75%+ of my health left.

But when I go up against a warrior, if I win then it is far from an easy win. Usually I'm almost dead and I just barely beat him. But often times I get killed by a warrior very easily. So my conclusion is that the warriors I am just barely winning against are the ones with lousy gear or less skilled, and the ones with good gear and well skilled are beating me easily.

This indicates that it is not a level playing field. As I previously mentioned, I'd like to see Crit boosted for INT points, so that mages have decent crit like rogues. If every 4th or 5th hit from a mage was a crit, then our overall damage would be increased by 15-20% which I think would even things out. Lightning would then become our premium kill skill, which right now we are lacking.

[Jerahmeel De Guzman]

Warriors are overpowered; high health & self healing. Once 3 or more of them start stampeding and jumping like hopping elephants in an African Safari there's no stopping it. Try to imagine the stampede from the Jumanji movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trc37cBzoEk
"Run, it's a stampede" ... my thoughts exactly.

Stunning to try to run away doesn't do anything since they can easily bounce back and catch up.

[bulldog1]

The healing skills need to be taken out of PvP pet bug needs to be fixed who's gonna really care if you die or not it makes it unfair for people its not like you'll be discriminated I can understand healing in PvE but that's just a given.

Anyway that's pretty much it that I would like to see happen it just makes it unfair to everyone trying to PvP the way the game was supposed to be played its a fun perspective to the game I enjoy it even though I don't do so well I just try to have fun with it I'm not going for the top I like where I'm at now thanks

[Uzii]

I second this.

Why is it always a a non mage saying that their bestfriend's friends friend is a top mage is having no problems and owning warriors.

I'm having problems killing those warriors. And now they travel in 2s and 3s.
Better yet to prove a point.

Someone name your mage II'll use my warrior.
I'll go spec that dreaded skyward smash (high damage, stun, flies across the map), whirlwind(aoe dps snare), juggernaut,(500heal), vengeful blood (500heal+mana regent+crit buff).

1vs1 let's see. Maybe I need lessons playing my mage.

Everyone has hard times killing warrior. Rouge has high dmg but if he runs ut of mana first till he can kill warrior its late for him. Stunts r very painful too even when i wake up from it im slowed down charged razor shield does not help against slowing as he should. Even warriors r affraid of other warriors u think they back u up but they run away.. isnt a rouge the one with lower hp and armor to run away -_-

I usualy run to mana cross to replenish mana and can kill 2 warriors if im lucky and they dont stun me or r not cooperate. But group of 3 just stumped u to dead didnt even notice there were some mage or rouge on the way. I dont speak of soloing but full group againts them...

[frieke]

Ive been reading everyones comments and agree with some but not all. I have a mage and rogue and I find that warriors are way too powerful, esp with self buffs but also some rogues are very powerful as well so in a way i think these two classes can balance out. However, poor mages, even the really good ones ive seen dont stand much of a chance. Armour is too low and for skills like gale i find you have to be nearly on top of enemies to be really effective. If they sneak up behind, lights out.
On the whole, this is what I find:
Rogues - need a self buff and increased mana
Wars - more dps but less self buffs and or dmg
Mages - higher armour and skills need to be tweeked to be more effective.
This just my opinion from playing heaps with both rogue and mage. Havent taken my war inside the arena yet.

Side note - i really hope we can keep pets i too think it adds another dimension to the game.
Also, what about being able to make games rather than just going in random? Maybe the ability to make a room and open it up to public once youve invited?
Lastly, i too would like to see more health and mana in the maps.

Really enjoying pvp even though i get whomped some days. Oh, can we please please please have king of the ring like DL?

Thanks for reading guys. Have fun and happy hunting!

[Darkgenocide]

Rogues are Crazy overpowered, they are unstoppable in pvp. also mages are a bit weak.

There is a saying in the Old D&D Playing days, "A Alert Mage is Unstoppable, A Surprised Mage is Dead". I think mages should be putting out more damage then both the other classes, after all there using magic and shooting fire balls out there hands and all that good stuff. But as far as Rogues go, there dmg is crazy high. I am lvl 20 Warrior with semi decent gear but not the best armor and still just get 1 shot one after another. its just getting boring now lol..

warriors seem to be the most balanced class in pvp as far as dmg and all that but everything could use some work i guess.

a reward would be cool for winning and pets would be even better, maybe 2 or 3 different maps that can be picked by votes before the game starts?

[linuxjedi]

What about after normalizing rogues damage, they get a stealth mode. 30 second cd, and only activates after 5 seconds of no debuff - that way they cant use it to vanish or hips while in combat. All while letting their first _melee_ attack while stealthed do double damage that bypassesall shields or something reasonable that still gives them the slight advantage in that situation. Throw in a stun on it too. Something like that is more inline with what most peoples perceptionsof what rogues are about. Make rogues rely on their natural adilities. Just a thought.

[D-Zaak]

Rogues are Crazy overpowered, they are unstoppable in pvp. also mages are a bit weak.

There is a saying in the Old D&D Playing days, "A Alert Mage is Unstoppable, A Surprised Mage is Dead". I think mages should be putting out more damage then both the other classes, after all there using magic and shooting fire balls out there hands and all that good stuff. But as far as Rogues go, there dmg is crazy high. I am lvl 20 Warrior with semi decent gear but not the best armor and still just get 1 shot one after another. its just getting boring now lol..

warriors seem to be the most balanced class in pvp as far as dmg and all that but everything could use some work i guess.

a reward would be cool for winning and pets would be even better, maybe 2 or 3 different maps that can be picked by votes before the game starts?

I disagree with the post more than any other in the last 18 pages.

Warriors are the LEAST balanced class. Having the highest HP plus the best heals and buffs (yes, better than mages, that is CRAZY) is just ridiculous. Why are warriors so fast? Remove healing all together and make their stuns less effective. They also need less range on their attacks. They can't be that flexible with such huge biceps.

All classes are unbalanced to some extent, but warriors are the most.

Mages attacks too weak. Their AoE attacks also need to be very strong. I'd say they should be the strongest in the game, however have very slow cool down times to stop them being abused. Also higher crit would be good for them, but not elite like rouge.

Rouges aimed shot needs to be nerfed a little, but base damage needs to stay high and MP raised a little.

[currycrab]

I disagree with the post more than any other in the last 18 pages.

Warriors are the LEAST balanced class. Having the highest HP plus the best heals and buffs (yes, better than mages, that is CRAZY) is just ridiculous. Why are warriors so fast? Remove healing all together and make their stuns less effective. They also need less range on their attacks. They can't be that flexible with such huge biceps.

All classes are unbalanced to some extent, but warriors are the most.

Mages attacks too weak. Their AoE attacks also need to be very strong. I'd say they should be the strongest in the game, however have very slow cool down times to stop them being abused. Also higher crit would be good for them, but not elite like rouge.

Rouges aimed shot needs to be nerfed a little, but base damage needs to stay high and MP raised a little.

if you are using pure int or dex, your toon will has lowest amount of HP. This will give easy kill to any class.

I tried pure str as a rogue before, i can withstand aimed shot and able to get away.

Eventually, it is one of the choices,damage or defense.. You cant have both of the world.

Warrior can kill, but it hit less damage compare to Rogues.

Aside to this, i wonder did any one consider to remove the "stun" for a charged attack. Mage is good for magic, stun is inclusive for mage. This will be one of the features that mage will look forward too.

And some of the Mage skills are not for PVP, which mean some skills do not work properly in PvP

[yuriramos]

I disagree with the post more than any other in the last 18 pages.

Warriors are the LEAST balanced class. Having the highest HP plus the best heals and buffs (yes, better than mages, that is CRAZY) is just ridiculous. Why are warriors so fast? Remove healing all together and make their stuns less effective. They also need less range on their attacks. They can't be that flexible with such huge biceps.

All classes are unbalanced to some extent, but warriors are the most.

Mages attacks too weak. Their AoE attacks also need to be very strong. I'd say they should be the strongest in the game, however have very slow cool down times to stop them being abused. Also higher crit would be good for them, but not elite like rouge.

Rouges aimed shot needs to be nerfed a little, but base damage needs to stay high and MP raised a little.

Rogue skills needs to be nerfed but should make up to decent and fast normal attacks. Imo rogues must not be skill dependent, they should be able to do good offense by using normal attacks since mp is low.

[Friufi]

Hey Devs,

I have played a lot of PvP; won some, lost some, but none more frustrating than dying in a stun lock caused by a rogue. Its like "death is inevitable", you can't fight back, just accept it.

Warriors could never have 100% stun. Not even from a charged Skyward Smash. Even the so-called strongest warrior skill i.e. Windmill, has no stun, and has too long cooldown (10 secs). However, rogue's skills mostly costs 2 secs cooldown. No wonder they can easily spam their skills to get confirmed stun effects.

This stun lock and high DPS is the reason PvP is so unbalanced in favour of Rogues. Rogues only require a few seconds to kill off a well armored warrior. The stun ensures the warrior have no chance of fighting back, and the usual death animation I get after being killed by a rogue is a still-standing Warrior (proof that my warrior died while being stunned). Also, due to the fact that la warrior's attack skills has longer cooldown times (see above) as compared to a rogue's attack skills, it's plainly "Game Over".

Rogues virtually occupy all the space in the PvP leaderboards. Isn't that definite proof that PvP favours rogues?

NOTE: I was told by Rogue users that the stun effect is from a Bow. Seems that only this weapon has stun effects. Really nice, devs. Why can't other classes have weapons with stun effects too?

NOTE2: I don't really mind stun effects from mages. After all, everyone acknowledges that they are underpowered in PvP, and I guess mages having stun effects kinda balances the odds somewhat in their favour.

[currycrab]

One more thing that i notice, Colton is extremely expensive.

2mil - 3mil for 1 "equipment", is that worth that price? And this is a "must-have" pet for Mage. Is there a way that can sink the price down?

Since Mage have low critical, their damage base must be HIGH. This pet will boost it

[CosmoxKramer]

Colton was free for me. just do your dailies. I almost have a 2nd one now

[CosmoxKramer]

reward would be great. Maybe a PVP coin system. 3 coins for winning, 1 for losing, +1 to the 3 people with the most kills (most you could get from 1 game is 4 coins, least is 1) This promotes both winning and actively engaging in combat

Coins could be used at a PVP vendor. You could have the following be purchasable with coins
Current level gear (25-26 gear for new patch coming) -costing a fairly high coin amount, 26 gear would be extremely costly
Pets - High cost amount
Potion packs - moderate-high cost amount
legacy gear (20-21, 15-16, 25-26 when lvl 31 cap comes out) - low cost
Low quality pets - moderate cost
anything else you can think of.....

[Tribalware]

reward would be great. Maybe a PVP coin system. 3 coins for winning, 1 for losing, +1 to the 3 people with the most kills (most you could get from 1 game is 4 coins, least is 1) This promotes both winning and actively engaging in combat

Coins could be used at a PVP vendor. You could have the following be purchasable with coins
Current level gear (25-26 gear for new patch coming) -costing a fairly high coin amount, 26 gear would be extremely costly
Pets - High cost amount
Potion packs - moderate-high cost amount
legacy gear (20-21, 15-16, 25-26 when lvl 31 cap comes out) - low cost
Low quality pets - moderate cost
anything else you can think of.....

I think offering anything of any real value for PvP kills (rogues own) or flag captures (warriors own) would be incredibly unfair at this stage. If you're going to offer an equal rewards system for something like kills then the basis for attaining those rewards should be equal, one look at the leaderboards and this is obviously not the case. If rogues are able to mass 5k and upwards in kills over a few days of PvP I don't think it's then fair to go ahead and reward them for that because it's not expert strategy it's a class imbalance. Even when the classes are balanced I'm not sure how this would work because rogues are always going to be able to mass more kills even in a fair system. Unless you'd also want to give out PvP tokens for things like 'most amount healed' or 'most number of stuns delivered' (which a mage still wouldn't win on) then you'd be putting sorcs at yet another disadvantage.

Warriors... Been running into teams of the thugs all day and it's the least fun way to PvP, but putting that aside for a second there have been a series of encounters I've had soloing with just one warrior over and over again that have given me some more to think on (I did not once manage to take this warrior down). I've already said that mages need a damage buff and skill tweak and warriors need their skills nerfed, but someone from a few pages back also had the idea of allowing INT to bump crit chance a small amount. This might actually make a real difference, as currently I have to spec specifically for crit on the off chance that one of my lightning bolts will land with 250% dmg. This is the only way I can foresee myself being able to solo an equally equipped warrior. On the 12% chance that my attack lands a crit. Weak.

Which leads me to one last point - You've fixed the crit chance passive and pet buffs on the avatar screen, but the pet and passive dmg boosts still don't show? Just an observation, I assume they both work correctly but it's nice to be able to see it.

[Tribalware]

Colton was free for me. just do your dailies. I almost have a 2nd one now

Here here :) 2 million for 50 days work? Sounds like the easy life to me. Colton is expensive for a reason, but it's not like running dailies takes more than 20 minutes out of your day. Just grind at it like the rest of us. I am precisely 5 tokens away.

[currycrab]

Colton was free for me. just do your dailies. I almost have a 2nd one now


Here here :) 2 million for 50 days work? Sounds like the easy life to me. Colton is expensive for a reason, but it's not like running dailies takes more than 20 minutes out of your day. Just grind at it like the rest of us. I am precisely 5 tokens away.

I got only 66 token

only can get 4 token a day, and it is long.. moreover, mage is not my main class, but a class to build and justify what public think that mage is UP

[Uzii]

Hey Devs,

I have played a lot of PvP; won some, lost some, but none more frustrating than dying in a stun lock caused by a rogue. Its like "death is inevitable", you can't fight back, just accept it.

Warriors could never have 100% stun. Not even from a charged Skyward Smash. Even the so-called strongest warrior skill i.e. Windmill, has no stun, and has too long cooldown (10 secs). However, rogue's skills mostly costs 2 secs cooldown. No wonder they can easily spam their skills to get confirmed stun effects.

This stun lock and high DPS is the reason PvP is so unbalanced in favour of Rogues. Rogues only require a few seconds to kill off a well armored warrior. The stun ensures the warrior have no chance of fighting back, and the usual death animation I get after being killed by a rogue is a still-standing Warrior (proof that my warrior died while being stunned). Also, due to the fact that la warrior's attack skills has longer cooldown times (see above) as compared to a rogue's attack skills, it's plainly "Game Over".

Rogues virtually occupy all the space in the PvP leaderboards. Isn't that definite proof that PvP favours rogues?

NOTE: I was told by Rogue users that the stun effect is from a Bow. Seems that only this weapon has stun effects. Really nice, devs. Why can't other classes have weapons with stun effects too?

NOTE2: I don't really mind stun effects from mages. After all, everyone acknowledges that they are underpowered in PvP, and I guess mages having stun effects kinda balances the odds somewhat in their favour.

This is so wrong. Stun come from normal charged attack bow swords or any other weapon. Warriors stunts and slow downs r very effective no chance to escape. If u take away stun from normal attack rouge will have a big problem to encounter a warrior + their insane healing and buffing capabilities. See warrior section u can find there many useful tips for ur warrior.

[Cashews]

If rewards are going to be given out for PVP team games, they need to be based solely on wins and losses. For 1v1, you should be able to bet items or cash.

[Xman]

Sensible dialogue, (I'm not sure why a couple of people keep trying to invalidate the usefulness of this thread at all, seems to me there's a lot of really good points being made). As patrick (who is most likely not at the top of the CTF kills leaderboard because he plays a mage... Erdnase) has pointed out the main problem doesn't even have to be rogues being OP, it's more about the skills than the stats and our skills took a serious nerfing for PvP to the point where you're left with skill points hanging around spare after a lvl 21 build becuase the majority of skill perks are ineffective (see ALL the frost skills for example).

We're forced to spec for shield which is something we shouldn't really have to do, it should be an option for those looking to last a little longer but not a straight up necessity, but it's cool we'll bite that bullet, but as patrick points out we are then forced to spec for heal too. So think about it, as a damage dealing class (see page 7, previous posts, etc etc. we are NOT a support class) we've spent 2 of our 4 skills just on spells that help us survive more than a few seconds that don't even really benefit anyone else, leaving us severely reduced in our capacity to sling proper spells.

I tried the above build for a while but got sick and tired of lacking that extra damage spell, so now I'm back to fire, lightning, frost (which is in a shameful state (ADD A SLOW, IT'S A FREAKING ICE SPELL), and shield. Sod the health I don't make it out alive all that much anyway and besides a warrior does a better job of patching me up than I could. So I'm running around the map, trying to stay at the back of the lines, charging fireball hurling uncharged lightning and frost and then charging fireball again. At 276 dps I should be a slaughterhouse, I'm not. Some sensible ideas I've heard so far that don't involve fundamental changes to stats:

- Allow us our brief period of invulnerability on an uncharged shield, at the pace rogues work at we're just not left with the time to position those 2 seconds effectively when the shield has to be charged.
- Frost: Just... I mean come on guys for the love of christ make it do something. I'm reduced to using it but bitterly, only chance I have at outlasting a rogue (and up against a decent rogue it doesn't happen often) is to put them down with a charged fireball, power up an uncharged shield and then lay uncharged lightning and frost into them before they recover from the stun. But this is NOT enough to kill a rogue who is my equal, so I have to pray they are out of mana or feeling a little lazy so i can wait for my lightning to cooldown. That last lightning usually does it.
- Clock: Yeah I messed around with clock too, to be honest its useless considering how long fights last and that you have to be at the centre of all the chaos to drop it properly. But considering how hard it is to use effectively it could do a bit more damage/have a better slow effect/cause damage over time without having been charged first. Something, anything to make it a viable skill. As it stands I throw it into the 'completely redundant' pile alongside curse, gale and frost.

Whereas once again warriors... You guys DO need a nerf, I agree with patrick in that rogues need not necessarily be OP, I'd like to see their range reduced with bows but still when it comes to rogue vs. mage it feels more like we're underpowered rather than them being overpowered. Warriors on the other hand, you guys are just tripping out hard...

Putting aside your core stats for a moment, the fact that you have too much hp and do too much damage:
- Sky smash: it's a closing move, incredibly powerful as it is allowing you to effectively teleport to within range of a sorc AND deal damage. (and keeping our distance is quite literally our most powerful weapon at the moment). so why on gods green earth does it also deliver an incredibly effective stun.
- HP buff: Others have already put it better than me, but does it seem at all right that warriors get better support skills than the support class does? Perhaps we'd be more useful in PvP if warriors needed us to heal their HP and rogues needed us to replenish their mana, i'd love to fill a support role in that capacity. But as it stands warriors don't need us for anything.
- Bow range... with SWORDS: So you can outrange me now too you say? well that makes about as much sense as the class with an insane HP advantage also having an insane heal skill.

Our sorc skills need an overhaul, half of them are redundant inherently (see curse, clock) and the other half you guys at sts went and gutted pre PvP. That's right, to anyone blowing their horn about mages this and mages that, we actually took a nerf specifically for PvP. I'm not saying I expect to see a patch that leads to mages appearing on the leaderboards. Rogues are assassins, you guys were always going to be the best at collecting kills, but theres something very very wrong with it all at the moment and it kinda sucks the fun out of playing from time to time.

I have specced, geared and strategised my balls off, and will curse the next person to say 'you guys aren't underpowered, you're just bad players'. I wouldnt worry though, curse doesn't work worth sh*t anyhow ;)

Omg this is super true, I can't agree more, a very constructive opinion. Thanks

[Xman]

reward would be great. Maybe a PVP coin system. 3 coins for winning, 1 for losing, +1 to the 3 people with the most kills (most you could get from 1 game is 4 coins, least is 1) This promotes both winning and actively engaging in combat

Coins could be used at a PVP vendor. You could have the following be purchasable with coins
Current level gear (25-26 gear for new patch coming) -costing a fairly high coin amount, 26 gear would be extremely costly
Pets - High cost amount
Potion packs - moderate-high cost amount
legacy gear (20-21, 15-16, 25-26 when lvl 31 cap comes out) - low cost
Low quality pets - moderate cost
anything else you can think of.....

Sorry but I can't agree, this makes PvP extremely unfair. Reward coins should be used to buy pet (just like in hountlet) or to buy a kind of chest (5 for copper, 10 for silver or 15 for golden, may be...) and these chest should be able to give some good items, equal or better than elite banded chests (don't put item like in locked chests, then it will not be a motivation to PvP anymore).
And reward system should be fair, shouldn't reward by kills (in that case everyone will play rogue) but reward by winning (motivation for group work) and also need a punishment (-1 coin) for each time they quit. It's obviously very annoying for other team members to see 1 member quit.

[nicoB]

I'm in. i couldnt quote because I'm currently using my phone and the video is messing up the mobile foemat. but mi ign is chesher. add me and lets rumble

[CosmoxKramer]

Funny how PVP in Diablo 3 went out for BETA test 1-2 weeks ago, and they have similar class balance, high damage, long stun problems like AL.
First 2.5 minutes pretty much sounds just like someone critiquing AL PVP if you just substitute class names etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zsp5oIC9380

i think Lowering damage done in pvp could help with strategy more. as is, if you are anything besides a warrior, if you get stunned, you are as good as dead. I just thought it was funny while watching the first few minutes of this video how much it sounded like this forum topic.

[dasheddreams]

A lvl 4 can not join a lvl 1, but a lvl 12 can play with a lvl 2???? Being this is AL, i think the stats a pet provides should still transfer to pvp since those pet stats are a major factor on how a player builds themself. And which the new update, whats the possiblitity for free respects since pvp has changed?

[nicoB]

Hey Devs,

I have played a lot of PvP; won some, lost some, but none more frustrating than dying in a stun lock caused by a rogue. Its like "death is inevitable", you can't fight back, just accept it.

Warriors could never have 100% stun. Not even from a charged Skyward Smash. Even the so-called strongest warrior skill i.e. Windmill, has no stun, and has too long cooldown (10 secs). However, rogue's skills mostly costs 2 secs cooldown. No wonder they can easily spam their skills to get confirmed stun effects.

This stun lock and high DPS is the reason PvP is so unbalanced in favour of Rogues. Rogues only require a few seconds to kill off a well armored warrior. The stun ensures the warrior have no chance of fighting back, and the usual death animation I get after being killed by a rogue is a still-standing Warrior (proof that my warrior died while being stunned). Also, due to the fact that la warrior's attack skills has longer cooldown times (see above) as compared to a rogue's attack skills, it's plainly "Game Over".

Rogues virtually occupy all the space in the PvP leaderboards. Isn't that definite proof that PvP favours rogues?

NOTE: I was told by Rogue users that the stun effect is from a Bow. Seems that only this weapon has stun effects. Really nice, devs. Why can't other classes have weapons with stun effects too?

NOTE2: I don't really mind stun effects from mages. After all, everyone acknowledges that they are underpowered in PvP, and I guess mages having stun effects kinda balances the odds somewhat in their favour.

All charged normal/main attaks have a stun affect. warriors dominate the flags. captured lb. And some warrior armor debuffs stuns. i think its jugernaught armor right? i believe this may be true since of tried to stun a few warriors and they continued to chase me with the stars over there heads. wareiors have the best heals. just heal yourself with the horn or vengfull blood. thats wat most warriors do

[nicoB]

One more thing that i notice, Colton is extremely expensive.

2mil - 3mil for 1 "equipment", is that worth that price? And this is a "must-have" pet for Mage. Is there a way that can sink the price down?

Since Mage have low critical, their damage base must be HIGH. This pet will boost it

Colton takes 50 days to get lol the price isnt going to drop. there are other good pets for mages

[Haowesie]

I'm sure a lot of people have done stat respecs since CTF/PVP came out. It would be helpful if:
- We can see base stats when adding passives as it will help determine where to invest points
- The ability to add/subtract points in the skills/passives section (like in base stats)
- The ability to go back to stat points when choosing skills/passives and vice/versa, e.g. only have one submit for both
- Suggestion to spilt plat cost for stat and skill, e.g. 3 plat for changing base stat, 3 plat for changing skills/passive, 5 plat for both?
- Also maybe an option to hide base stats (like in PL, I know some people don't like to share their build) but viewable when you look at yourself :P

[nicoB]

Warriors OP... well not really, they just have ridiculous range!

[ikavli]

Pvp is a FAIL!

Warriors are invincible
Rouges does to much damage
Mages sucks

FAIL!!
RESET PVP STATS AFTER U FIX THE BALANCE OF THIS CRAP GAME

[nicoB]

Pvp is a FAIL!

Warriors are invincible
Rouges does to much damage
Mages sucks

FAIL!!
RESET PVP STATS AFTER U FIX THE BALANCE OF THIS CRAP GAME

Reset pvp stats!? are you crazy?!?! do do you know how much time and hard work so many peeople put into getting there achievments and stats?! Resets stats? no way. leaderboard? maybe

[KILL3RBUD]

i wont play pvp anymore until they balance they field eqaul to all players ... get slaughtered time after time with 1 hit is so much FUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNNN

[Tribalware]

Apologies if this turns out to be in the wrong thread, I'm a creature of habit. But a couple of points (besides the 50 or so I've already made):

1) How about team only chat in PvP? I assume it's something you plan to add in right, I mean it's a little hard to coordinate (and it's not like us mages can solo) when everything you say gets broadcast to the other team. "Meet at the flag and we'll mob out from there, but don't tell the other team in case... Damn"

2) I'm glad you made a decision on the pet thing, I'm all for a fair playing field. But people's pets are a core part of their build, why not let them keep their passive bonuses in PvP? We work really hard to farm the pets we need and my latest respec revolved entirely around the bonuses my pet afforded. I'm exactly 5 tokens away from my colton and after 50 odd days of work you're telling me I'm not allowed to use his buffs in PvP? Just seems to me that pets are no different from gear really, and you're not making everyone fight naked so why force them to leave behind their long sought after companions. I don't think pets should be able to attack or anything, but the buffs they offer are an absolutely essential component of any build that adds a great deal of diversity to an otherwise fairly simple build dynamic.

I'll now have to respec back out of my new build (I pumped passive crit chance, traded fireballs DoT for lightnings 250% crit dmg perk and switched from wrath to malison for that extra 5% crit bump, because honestly how else am I going to make a kill against a warrior). Current plat spent on PvP respecs - 55, you must be loving this STS, you absolute bast...

[linuxjedi]

People keep complaining that sorcs are too weak. I would say that all sorcs will spec fire, and in that case they are good ranged aoe damage. A sorcs dps will probly be pretty high against a mob of 3+. And thats ranged. In a safe zone where he should be. If a warr comes after him then he needs to have specd right or die. A warr cant ranged aoe like a mage. If a mage could reliably deal with a warrior coming at him and still ranged aoe like they do then they are op. And frankly, i dont think twice about going after a warr thats by himself. Bottom line sorcs are not really as weak as some people are making them out to be. They maybe just haven't fully realized their strengths and/or realized that you can't just make sorcs, or any class, strong in every situation and still have balance.

[Tribalware]

People keep complaining that sorcs are too weak. I would say that all sorcs will spec fire, and in that case they are good ranged aoe damage. A sorcs dps will probly be pretty high against a mob of 3+. And thats ranged. In a safe zone where he should be. If a warr comes after him then he needs to have specd right or die. A warr cant ranged aoe like a mage. If a mage could reliably deal with a warrior coming at him and still ranged aoe like they do then they are op. And frankly, i dont think twice about going after a warr thats by himself. Bottom line sorcs are not really as weak as some people are making them out to be. They maybe just haven't fully realized their strengths and/or realized that you can't just make sorcs, or any class, strong in every situation and still have balance.

Sorry... I just couldn't leave this one alone. I'm going to have to break your post down into a few of it's core points to really make fun of it effectively:

- A sorcs dps will probly be pretty high against a mob of 3+. And thats ranged. In a safe zone where he should be: Everything is ranged dude, warriors standard attacks do bow range damage, there is no 'safe zone' especially against a mob of 3.
- If a warr comes after him then he needs to have specd right or die: Noooope, actually, if a warrior comes after you then you need to hope to god you've got a fireball charged or a friendly coming up behind you, preferably both, so that you can run like hell. Once again - our one stun skill (fireball) stops looking so impressive when compared to skyward smash which has the same range and is a closing move that also deals a stun.
- A warr cant ranged aoe like a mage.: Actually he can do better, he can reel a mage in like a little fishy or land on his head with a damaging stun and then commence to deal a powerful AoE damage spell, easily charged by the time his stun has worn off
- i dont think twice about going after a warr thats by himself: So you're another one of these mages who chase fearful warriors all over the map? I'm tired of being nice about this one, you're either straight up lying or you're pvping at levels 6 through 16 or something. This does not happen, a warrior sees a mage by themselves in PvP and rubs his hands together with glee, easy kill.
- They maybe just haven't fully realized their strengths: Deep, long, unhappy sigh. Refer to page 7 for my plea from the mages to stop insulting our intelligence, we have fully realised our strengths and I mean FULLY. We've worked so hard with what we've got, making the tiniest changes squeezing the smallest percentages more out of our builds and gear and we know how to stand back behind a line of fighting and sling spells.

In conclusion - have you checked the new leaderboards recently?

[linuxjedi]

No, everything is not ranged. Their whirlwind attack is melee range. They dont have a ranged aoe attack. And yes there is a safe zone when you are out of range of their melee range aoe and you have a teammate between you and them, such as a rogue or warrior.

Sorcs have more than one stun, wind, and if specd right gives you a bunch of dodge. Hence the warr coming at you. I wont respond to the rest of your reply, but i sense you just lack a lot of comparable mmorpg experience. I'm goin on 8 years with 3 years in one of the best pvp guilds in WoW.

[JuiceBox]

No, everything is not ranged. Their whirlwind attack is melee range. They dont have a ranged aoe attack. And yes there is a safe zone when you are out of range of their melee range aoe and you have a teammate between you and them, such as a rogue or warrior.

Sorcs have more than one stun, wind, and if specd right gives you a bunch of dodge. Hence the warr coming at you. I wont respond to the rest of your reply, but i sense you just lack a lot of comparable mmorpg experience. I'm goin on 8 years with 3 years in one of the best pvp guilds in WoW.

Honestly you don't play mage or warrior, and so you have no idea what you're talking about.

We are talking about arcane legends not wow. Warriors whirlwind does have range. You can spec in a 6m range upgrade to it.

I'm in game now on my warrior RazorApple. Enough theorycraft, I am proof.
Come find me.

[JuiceBox]

Don't bother replying to this lin. I've tried to fight fight this argument back since page 7 (where I insulted tribals intelligence). He says he knows all of our strengths, but he doesn't, and he doesn't know that he doesn't know because he doesn't know what he doesn't know (if u read it a few times u'll c what I'm saying). and there's no need for u to reply either tribal because I'm done trying to tell u otherwise, its pointless for me to try to help u and I don't know why I tried to help in the first place.

I'm calling you out! I'm online come add my warrior. I want to see you beat me all over the arena 1v1.

If you're talking truth then teach us mages how to play. Or is this some top secret strategy that only you and Linux know?

[Tribalware]

Don't bother replying to this lin. I've tried to fight fight this argument back since page 7 (where I insulted tribals intelligence). He says he knows all of our strengths, but he doesn't, and he doesn't know that he doesn't know because he doesn't know what he doesn't know (if u read it a few times u'll c what I'm saying). and there's no need for u to reply either tribal because I'm done trying to tell u otherwise, its pointless for me to try to help u and I don't know why I tried to help in the first place.

This coming from a mage who 1) Promised to stop cluttering up the place with his inane noise and 2) Just responded to my long awaited in game challenge with 'I can't settle this with you in the arena once and for all because I'm fully specced for dex'. Those weren't his actual words I'm quoting him unfairly there, but his actual words in response to my question 'well... why are you a full dex mage' were 'because I'm stupid lol, no I have no idea why I'm full dex'. I'm not even kidding. I actually found that funny enough to take a screenshot of if anyone would like to see, I'm still chuckling a little inside.

No Linux I'd actually like you to respond to me, it just seems like you have little to no understanding of the warrior vs. mage dynamic, in similar fashion to a couple of other posters. Do you play a warrior or a mage linux? Or are you in fact just another rogue getting in on the action?

Also thanks Juicebox, your common sense approach to common sense problems gives me hope.

EDIT: I did actually just meet with Erdnase in game, he was quick to point out that he had a better K/D ratio than me and more flag captures. Nice, can't argue with that. So I asked him, since he was clearly in the know, where I was going wrong. His response - 'I'm not going to tell you anything because I don't like you'. The entire freaking point of this entire useless argument was so that we could get together and suss out where us mages were going wrong. He had more kills than me sure, but still only about 600 it's not like you're owning the arena either dude. On top of that you've completely invalidated the entire point of this exercise by 1) refusing to face me in the arena and 2) refusing to talk tactics with a fellow mage. Quite literally unbelievable.

[JuiceBox]

This coming from a mage who 1) Promised to stop cluttering up the place with his inane noise and 2) Just responded to my long awaited in game challenge with 'I can't settle this with you in the arena once and for all because I'm fully specced for dex'. Those weren't his actual words I'm quoting him unfairly there, but his actual words in response to my question 'well... why are you a full dex mage' were 'because I'm stupid lol, no I have no idea why I'm full dex'. I'm not even kidding. I actually found that funny enough to take a screenshot of if anyone would like to see, I'm still chuckling a little inside.

No Linux I'd actually like you to respond to me, it just seems like you have little to no understanding of the warrior vs. mage dynamic, in similar fashion to a couple of other posters. Do you play a warrior or a mage linux? Or are you in fact just another rogue getting in on the action?

Also thanks Juicebox, your common sense approach to common sense problems gives me hope.

I'm also looking for real answers.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. We don't need misinformation in this feedback thread.

Just truth and facts.

And the fact is I'm online.
RazorApple or JuiceBox. Prove me wrong. Otherwise people defending this game is balance are just wasting everyone's time and need to gtfo this thread.

[yuriramos]

top 25 of overall kills were all rogues. thats something that the devs can contemplate on.

[Cashews]

top 25 of overall kills were all rogues. thats something that the devs can contemplate on. rogues are made to kill. Contemplate on that. CTF is not about the number of kills you get. You can contemplate on that too.

[linuxjedi]

Honestly you don't play mage or warrior, and so you have no idea what you're talking about.

We are talking about arcane legends not wow. Warriors whirlwind does have range. You can spec in a 6m range upgrade to it.

I'm in game now on my warrior RazorApple. Enough theorycraft, I am proof.
Come find me.
The aoe has a range, or it wouldnt be an aoe, but it is _not_ a ranged attack. It is a melee aoe. You're arguing fundamental mechanics, and failing.

[yuriramos]

rogues are made to kill. Contemplate on that. CTF is not about the number of kills you get. You can contemplate on that too.

So other classes are made to die. Tell me more master.

[JuiceBox]

The aoe has a range, or it wouldnt be an aoe, but it is _not_ a ranged attack. It is a melee aoe. You're arguing fundamental mechanics, and failing.

Ahh geez. Call it what u want to try win your argument.

Melee range is when someone is next to you and you can reach out and touch them.

Now if I stretch out my arm and I hit you past what I can physically reach that's a range attack.

Whirlwind does that. Call it what u want its still not melee range.

[Cashews]

So other classes are made to die. Tell me more master. Classes are made to work together as a team. Sorc are support/aoe, warriors are tanks, and rogues are killers. It even says this in the descriptions when you make a new character. CTF is a team game and is designed to be played as a team with each class as a team player.If you want more kills you should have been a rogue. When you clicked on sorc you agreed to be the support class. Support classes don't stand a chance against any other class in every other game set up like AL. The problem is that members of the support class seem to think they are supposed to be able to 1v1 other classes, which is laughable. So quit trying to play a role your class is not meant for and do your job as a team player.

[Cashews]

Ahh geez. Call it what u want to try win your argument.

Melee range is when someone is next to you and you can reach out and touch them.

Now if I stretch out my arm and I hit you past what I can physically reach that's a range attack.

Whirlwind does that. Call it what u want its still not melee range.

Have you ever played a tower defense game? Aoe never has as much range as a sniper style tower. What makes you think it should be any different on here?

[JuiceBox]

@Linux

Why are you arguing technical terms?
Get a clue what someone is trying to say. You seem more intelligent than that.

Point is warriors range far exceeds what should be reasonable for its class.

[JuiceBox]

Have you ever played a tower defense game? Aoe never has as much range as a sniper style tower. What makes you think it should be any different on here?

Because I'm not playing tower defence.

You're in the wrong game.

[linuxjedi]

Ahh geez. Call it what u want to try win your argument.

Melee range is when someone is next to you and you can reach out and touch them.

Now if I stretch out my arm and I hit you past what I can physically reach that's a range attack.

Whirlwind does that. Call it what u want its still not melee range.

There is a huge sweeping difference between a ranged aoe attack and a melee aoe attack. You dont seem to understand what that difference is though. And that's why you fail to understand my original points. I'm not calling it what I want for the sake of winning anything. I'm calling it what everyone else on the planet calls it.

[Cashews]

Because I'm not playing tower defence.

You're in the wrong game.
I was trying to explain a fundamental of balance in a team based game. Sorry if you can't understand that.

[JuiceBox]

Classes are made to work together as a team. Sorc are support/aoe, warriors are tanks, and rogues are killers. It even says this in the descriptions when you make a new character. CTF is a team game and is designed to be played as a team with each class as a team player.If you want more kills you should have been a rogue. When you clicked on sorc you agreed to be the support class. Support classes don't stand a chance against any other class in every other game set up like AL. The problem is that members of the support class seem to think they are supposed to be able to 1v1 other classes, which is laughable. So quit trying to play a role your class is not meant for and do your job as a team player.

So except for heal what is a valid support skill does a Mage have for pvp?

Don't tell me curse or time.

Are u saying I have to walk into melee range to cast those and I would have done my job? Wow paying lots of money to do that.

And what do rogues or warrior need support in doing?

Have you ever said to yourself. Man I need Mage support right now..

[JuiceBox]

I was trying to explain a fundamental of balance in a team based game. Sorry if you can't understand that.

No I cannot understand you cause you're talking as if this is a balanced game.

I'm sorry you don't know what balance means.

[Megabird56]

So other classes are made to die. Tell me more master. Classes are made to work together as a team. Sorc are support/aoe, warriors are tanks, and rogues are killers. It even says this in the descriptions when you make a new character. CTF is a team game and is designed to be played as a team with each class as a team player.If you want more kills you should have been a rogue. When you clicked on sorc you agreed to be the support class. Support classes don't stand a chance against any other class in every other game set up like AL. The problem is that members of the support class seem to think they are supposed to be able to 1v1 other classes, which is laughable. So quit trying to play a role your class is not meant for and do your job as a team player.

But warrior is better support than mage. And aoe dmg means what when shield and heal takes two skill spots just to survive? fireball is aoe, and its either lightning for 1 target or use gale aoe which have no range, so why spec gale if mage is support when you can't stay back to use it?

[Cashews]

But warrior is better support than mage. And aoe dmg means what when shield and heal takes two skill spots just to survive? fireball is aoe, and its either lightning for 1 target or use gale aoe which have no range, so why spec gale if mage is support when you can't stay back to use it?

I agree. Warriors need more self buffs and less team buffs. Mages need a bit more armor. I'm not saying that it is balanced. I'm just trying to get the point across that if you're playing a class how it isn't meant to be played, you should expect to fail and your team should also suffer for it.

[JuiceBox]

There is a huge sweeping difference between a ranged aoe attack and a melee aoe attack. You dont seem to understand what that difference is though. And that's why you fail to understand my original points. I'm not calling it what I want for the sake of winning anything. I'm calling it what everyone else on the planet calls it.

Again you're missing the whole point.

Here I'll talk to you the way you will understand it.

The warriors whirlwind melee area of effect attack is far too large and also roots.

The warriors sky hammer attack has far too much range and when it hits the area of effect attack stuns.

Both are overpowering considering they already do high damage as well.

This is a feedback thread and you're not contributing.

[Cashews]

No I cannot understand you cause you're talking as if this is a balanced game.

I'm sorry you don't know what balance means.

AOE attacks should not have the range of a long range attack. That is a fundamental of balance. This game could use some balance work. But making an aoe attack have the range of a sniper is not a solution. The less range an aoe attack has, the more damage it should be able to inflict in its area of effect.

[linuxjedi]

But warrior is better support than mage. And aoe dmg means what when shield and heal takes two skill spots just to survive? fireball is aoe, and its either lightning for 1 target or use gale aoe which have no range, so why spec gale if mage is support when you can't stay back to use it?
Gale is nice for the sorc when he wants to solo a warrior. Speed for kiting and dodge to stay alive. In a support role it still is doable. Its range is a little greater than the visual would lead you to believe. As long as you have a friendly between you and the threat it's not unreasonable to step in a little closer while it is charging up and then fire it off and back away. Same goes for heals which no sorc should be without.

[Jerahmeel De Guzman]

Gale is nice for the sorc when he wants to solo a warrior. Speed for kiting and dodge to stay alive. In a support role it still is doable. Its range is a little greater than the visual would lead you to believe. As long as you have a friendly between you and the threat it's not unreasonable to step in a little closer while it is charging up and then fire it off and back away. Same goes for heals which no sorc should be without.

I just want warriors to be tanks and move like tanks ... slow, instead of keeping up with the same pace as rogues or mages. Why? Because warriors can easily catch up with their sky smash, damage, and stun. And yes, warriors "range is a little greater than the visual would lead you to believe."

[JuiceBox]

We're off topic.

Anyways I just recently played a few games with Tribalware.
We did not get to test properly as he lost connection and I haven't seen him on since.

I totally understand from a rogues and a warriors view how they see this game as balanced from a 1v1 perspective.

Rogue vs Warrior - Seems balance due to the rogues high damage, warriors cannot heal through the amount of damage a rogue can put out. Razor shield is a very deadly skill against a warrior.. I saw my life take a dive while on a razor shielded rogue..

Rogue vs Mage - People feel it is balance due to that mages can burst through a rogues health while they are stunned. And rogues can 1-2 shot a mage
Both deadly to each other, must be balanced..

Warrior vs Rogue - I actually have to be alert for them because they definitely can take me out in 2-4 hits. It did feel like an even match.

Warrior vs Mage - Yes stun can be annoying but a charged fireball only seem to do 1/7 of my health. This was against Tribal who has 275dps.
I believe its due to my high armor rating and high health (3000hp).

His lightning follow up felt weak too. If mages had more reliable stuns then I would get scared. As mages are capable to chain a lot of skills in succession due to their large mana pool.

But as of now, I'm taking larger chunks off a mages health and all the while healing through his attacks.

Mage vs Rogue - shield vs aimed shot. I can win, but I have to work harder to get it.

Mage vs Warrior - There literally is nowhere to run, unless I already had a head start.


Those are just a few of my thoughts from our games.

Group fights are another story. But it seems whoever has the most warriors on their side with the group heal and bubble always wins.

[yuriramos]

Classes are made to work together as a team. Sorc are support/aoe, warriors are tanks, and rogues are killers. It even says this in the descriptions when you make a new character. CTF is a team game and is designed to be played as a team with each class as a team player.If you want more kills you should have been a rogue. When you clicked on sorc you agreed to be the support class. Support classes don't stand a chance against any other class in every other game set up like AL. The problem is that members of the support class seem to think they are supposed to be able to 1v1 other classes, which is laughable. So quit trying to play a role your class is not meant for and do your job as a team player.

Good point. Although i dont consider mages as support. Mages are ranged offensive. Warriors are better support. And yes its ctf but even if its koth, death match, ffa or any gametype, i dont think the numbers will change.

[linuxjedi]

I just want warriors to be tanks and move like tanks ... slow, instead of keeping up with the same pace as rogues or mages. Why? Because warriors can easily catch up with their sky smash, damage, and stun. And yes, warriors "range is a little greater than the visual would lead you to believe."
My idea of a warrior is that he is the swiftest person on the battlefield. But i also believe a warrior should have 2 paths. Dps or tank. If that were ever implemented i would say a dps warrior
be more mobile. Maybe only open up leaps after he has so many points in strength as opposed to stamina and armor etc.

[Jerahmeel De Guzman]

My idea of a warrior is that he is the swiftest person on the battlefield. But i also believe a warrior should have 2 paths. Dps or tank. If that were ever implemented i would say a dps warrior
be more mobile. Maybe only open up leaps after he has so many points in strength as opposed to stamina and armor etc.
Why should the warrior be the swiftest in the battlefield? :T

[linuxjedi]

Why should the warrior be the swiftest in the battlefield? :T
Because a sorc is this decrepit and frail class that relies on knowledge and wisdom, and would probly twist an ankle had he to move fast without the help of magic. A rogue is an assassin, whose strength is stealth. A tank would use heavier armor than a dps warrior and probly wont catch a rogue, but a dps warrior is using a medium armor close to that of a rogue and is a lot more physically fit than a rogue due to his strict physical training regimen.

Either way thoughreally, a warrior is the pristine example of physical fitness. He's going to chase down anyone.

[nicoB]

No, everything is not ranged. Their whirlwind attack is melee range. They dont have a ranged. aoe attack. And yes there is a safe zone when you are out of range of their melee range aoe and you have a teammate between you and them, such as a rogue or warrior.

Sorcs have more than one stun, wind, and if specd right gives you a bunch of dodge. Hence the warr coming at you. I wont respond to the rest of your reply, but i sense you just lack a lot of comparable mmorpg experience. I'm goin on 8 years with 3 years in one of the best pvp guilds in WoW.

Ive been hit with windmill from bow range lol. i know because i was using a bow and the warrior was stunded right after he used windmill so he.couldnt move

[WarTornBird]

Why should the warrior be the swiftest in the battlefield? :T
Because a sorc is this decrepit and frail class that relies on knowledge and wisdom, and would probly twist an ankle had he to move fast without the help of magic. A rogue is an assassin, whose strength is stealth. A tank would use heavier armor than a dps warrior and probly wont catch a rogue, but a dps warrior is using a medium armor close to that of a rogue and is a lot more physically fit than a rogue due to his strict physical training regimen.

Either way thoughreally, a warrior is the pristine example of physical fitness. He's going to chase down anyone.

I don't even play AL. But im feeling you're thinking WAY to hard about this..I mean it could just be a hunch but hey...

[Jerahmeel De Guzman]

Because a sorc is this decrepit and frail class that relies on knowledge and wisdom, and would probly twist an ankle had he to move fast without the help of magic. A rogue is an assassin, whose strength is stealth. A tank would use heavier armor than a dps warrior and probly wont catch a rogue, but a dps warrior is using a medium armor close to that of a rogue and is a lot more physically fit than a rogue due to his strict physical training regimen.

Either way thoughreally, a warrior is the pristine example of physical fitness. He's going to chase down anyone.

You sir, comedic genius!
Everything I've been taught is wrong, I guess muscle builders can outrun cardio runners. Legit.
But who says mages & rogues aren't allowed to weight train or cardio also? :T

[Majikul]

me and my friend were pvping today, sooooo easy to stun lock people now. We both simply charge, and lock down said person. I believe in stuns, but this is hilarious. I came from wow with a huge robust PvP system and know this is taking off. Put diminishing returns in on stuns. Or I will make more people mad and put down this game, had her.

[linuxjedi]

You sir, comedic genius!
Everything I've been taught is wrong, I guess muscle builders can outrun cardio runners. Legit.
But who says mages & rogues aren't allowed to weight train or cardio also? :T
Who said warriors don't do cardio? Remember the orcs in lord of the rings? When they traveled in formation they didn't march, they ran. And for very long distances. Achilles was a warrior. Was he not cardiovascularly fit? To each their own, but even modern day warriors train in cardio. A rogue probly isnt in a military and may or may not be very physically fit, but ill let him spec it just in case. :o

[linuxjedi]

I don't even play AL. But im feeling you're thinking WAY to hard about this.

You don't play, but you're reading page 20 of this thread and trolling someone who does? You may need professional help.

[linuxjedi]

Ive been hit with windmill from bow range lol. i know because i was using a bow and the warrior was stunded right after he used windmill so he.couldnt move
I dont have problems staying out of it, so that tells me that the max range of mages is a lot greater than the radius of windmills aoe.

[Jerahmeel De Guzman]

I wouldn't know if Achilles was cardiovascularlly fit b/c I personally never witnessed his physique only heard stories of him being a warrior. Modern day warriors train in cardio, yes. But again ... "who says mages & rogues aren't allowed to weight train or cardio also?" :T

[linuxjedi]

I wouldn't know if Achilles was cardiovascularlly fit b/c I personally never witnessed his physique only heard stories of him being a warrior. Modern day warriors train in cardio, yes. But again ... "who says mages & rogues aren't allowed to weight train or cardio also?" :T
Granted. Ill let you spec mobility. :o It's generally not an option for warriors though. Just saying.

[Friufi]

All charged normal/main attaks have a stun affect. warriors dominate the flags. captured lb. And some warrior armor debuffs stuns. i think its jugernaught armor right? i believe this may be true since of tried to stun a few warriors and they continued to chase me with the stars over there heads. wareiors have the best heals. just heal yourself with the horn or vengfull blood. thats wat most warriors do

All charged attacks have 100% stun? I don't think so. Its only a chance of stun, not a confirmed stun. Since I'm using a warrior, I can only speak for a warrior build: For Skyward Smash, its 25% chance of a stun. It does exactly what is says on the tin. Its the same for the Axe Throw skill too. Alas, no stun chance for Windmill and Chest Splitter, but CS has a 20% chance to disorientate the enemy hit. Not sure is that is considered a stun hit too.

A warrior's charged attacks could never get 100% stun i.e. confirmed stun for every charged attacked. But a rogue armed with the Watchman Bow could get 100% chance of stun for charged attacks. Not forgetting that rogue skills have very low cooldown times.

In short, rogues can pull off a lot of charged skill attacks in rapid succession more than any other class, and with the Watchman Bow, it'll be a confirmed 100% stun hit. That, my friend, is the killer, and is the only beef I have in regards to PvP.

NOTE: Yeah its true rogues run out of mana very quickly, and become vulnerable until they replenish it. But there'll be no one to pick them off, because either their opponents are dead, or are stunned to attack back.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Pulenski]

My views on warriors from a Sorcerer's perspective...

There is definitely a problem with warriors range and their pursuit skills. I've respec'd to a more pvp friendly build and do a lot better now, getting the better of rogues and other sorcs the majority of the time, but if I encounter a well geared warrior with the right spec I am doomed unless I spot him far away enough that he hopefully doesn't even notice me or if I have some back-up to save my ***. Once you're in range with some warriors it can become hopeless despite your best efforts to evade him, they just yank you back and drop a heavy snare or leap after you dealing major damage and sometimes stunning...

I play on google chrome so maybe that hinders kiting abilities somewhat as the keys can get tricky to navigate during a chase but either way it's extremely difficult to even flee from warriors as they're so adept at closing the distance. If there is a 'safe zone' where you're just out of reach it's hard as hell to find and even then you're not in there for long due to their array of gap closers.

By all means have a gap closer of some sort but what they've got in their arsenal just seems a lot. The way PvP is at the moment for Sorcs you cannot afford to be in melee range for long because we're so squishy, yes I have shield but its duration isn't long enough to outlast the warrior's hp pool and then it's on a 30 sec CD. I should at least be able to run for the hills when I see imminent death marauding my way.

This is without even considering that they vastly outmatch a sorcerer in terms of support they offer the team with superior healing and defensive buffs. Where as some posters are insisting the sorc is only here for a support role...

and it goes without saying that I'd like to see some evidence of these previous posters pwning equally matched warriors 1vs1 with their sorcs because I don't believe it for a second. You've got challenges right there so take them up and lets see you back these bold claims.

[Vystirch]

Hmmmmm... This is still in beta #2 basically. I think I will just wait to make my opinions.

Also forall the people ranting and flaming...... There is no need. What did you think? That it would be balanced over night?

[Energizeric]

There is no point in debating this anymore. The results are in. Just take a look at the leaderboards and you can see who is OP and who is not. Here are the current results:

** 24 of the top 25 ranked players for PvP are rogues

** There is 1 warrior on the list, and he is ranked #24

** There are NO sorcerers on the list.



If PvP was well balanced, then a third of the top ranked players would be rogues, a third would be warriors, and a third would be sorcerers. Obviously this is NOT the case. STS needs to make adjustments.

[warbluefish]

for some reason. when i play pvp today. first of all im a sorc. i put my shield on and arogue stuned me all the way when my shield is off. and killed me with one shot. how that happened? im fully geared. demonlord security set. max out on int.

[Arsies]

Playing as a rogue I've got the conclusion that a bauble doesn't safe from beeing stunned. So don't feel too sure with that shield thingy.

Anyway, as mentioned above, we should wait for another update before debating about things said a hundred times before.

[yuriramos]

Playing as a rogue I've got the conclusion that a bauble doesn't safe from beeing stunned. So don't feel too sure with that shield thingy.

Anyway, as mentioned above, we should wait for another update before debating about things said a hundred times before.

shields doesnt protect against stuns too.

[WarTornBird]

I don't even play AL. But im feeling you're thinking WAY to hard about this.

You don't play, but you're reading page 20 of this thread and trolling someone who does? You may need professional help.

Actually. I just read the last 2 pages. Try again my friend. If you think im "trolling", no. Im simply making a statement. And as for the professional help, really dude? Grow up. You don't even know me. But anywho, im over it. Adios.

[Tribalware]

yeah, guys... we've got people discussing orcs and a warriors hypothetical workout regime. this is not constructive.

- just to reiterate, mages are not a support class. we are damage dealers who are forced to spec only 2 damage spells just to survive.
- warriors are an incredibly effective support class, they are also incredibly effective tanks/flag carriers/stun artists/aoe damage dealers (I'm not sure what that stupid argument over their whirlwind attack not counting as ranged was about, 6m of swirling death feels ranged enough to me, especially when delivered after a warrior has landed on your head. the argument that its fair because our fireball has a bit more range is kind of redundant considering the warriors set of closing moves)

we (mages) DO NOT WANT a hp buff or an armor buff, we want a damage buff and a skill tweak if not a complete overhaul.

[Serancha]

I took my rogue in after the update yesterday where they disabled pets. I tried every gear combo I could come up with. 250 dps vs. lower dps with higher health and armor rating, higher crit %... a bunch of variations. After playing with several different teams, I had to give up and switch to my warrior because I couldn't stay alive for more than 90 seconds in a row. This was not my idea of a good time.

Now this was not due to lack of ability, gear or the like. I would get stunned by a mage from around a corner, or a warrior's smash, and before I even recovered, I was in the red. Once a rogue is seeing red in there, they are as good as dead, and frequently I never even got a single shot off before I died.

I think the biggest issue overall is not actually that anyone is too strong, but that they are being killed too fast. This could well be because the health (hp) of the mages and rogues is drastically reduced without the pet buffs. Hopefully STS will be implementing pets in there soon, because I think it would help balance things out, at least survival-wise.

[currycrab]

yeah, guys... we've got people discussing orcs and a warriors hypothetical workout regime. this is not constructive.

- just to reiterate, mages are not a support class. we are damage dealers who are forced to spec only 2 damage spells just to survive.
- warriors are an incredibly effective support class, they are also incredibly effective tanks/flag carriers/stun artists/aoe damage dealers (I'm not sure what that stupid argument over their whirlwind attack not counting as ranged was about, 6m of swirling death feels ranged enough to me, especially when delivered after a warrior has landed on your head. the argument that its fair because our fireball has a bit more range is kind of redundant considering the warriors set of closing moves)

we (mages) DO NOT WANT a hp buff or an armor buff, we want a damage buff and a skill tweak if not a complete overhaul.

i would say this build will rule the game if pet is allow

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?83869-Mage

[Vystirch]

Without pets the classes are no longer balanced :( I hate to say it.....

[Arsies]

we (mages) DO NOT WANT ANYTHING, our class is strong enough and a skill tweak is a complete overhaul.

Signed.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I feel very comfortable without pets as everyone gots weaker and rogue still has the same amount of damage output as before.

[Uzii]

I took my rogue in after the update yesterday where they disabled pets. I tried every gear combo I could come up with. 250 dps vs. lower dps with higher health and armor rating, higher crit %... a bunch of variations. After playing with several different teams, I had to give up and switch to my warrior because I couldn't stay alive for more than 90 seconds in a row. This was not my idea of a good time.

Now this was not due to lack of ability, gear or the like. I would get stunned by a mage from around a corner, or a warrior's smash, and before I even recovered, I was in the red. Once a rogue is seeing red in there, they are as good as dead, and frequently I never even got a single shot off before I died.

I think the biggest issue overall is not actually that anyone is too strong, but that they are being killed too fast. This could well be because the health (hp) of the mages and rogues is drastically reduced without the pet buffs. Hopefully STS will be implementing pets in there soon, because I think it would help balance things out, at least survival-wise.

Experienced same thing with my rouge. Stun with fireball and im in red no chance to fire aim bc it came through corner. even when i shot aim it went to i dont know where..to some bug on wall maybe..but definetly not to opponent i was encountering. Wariors just stuned me with that big sword in quite a range i was thinking im safe... Agree also the fights r too short who first shots he usualy win and with stun thers no fight at all

[Tribalware]

Signed.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I feel very comfortable without pets as everyone gots weaker and rogue still has the same amount of damage output as before.

Couldn't resist what? Pointlessly mis-quoting me? Why you would even feel compelled to do it puzzles me you don't even seem to be making any particular argument with your misinformation. A skill tweak is not a skill overhaul, a skill tweak would be giving our frost skill a proper slow and our lightning it's stun effect. A skill overhaul would be ditching curse and clock entirely and replacing them with something a player might actually want to use. You know, perhaps some support skills.

And as for Vystrich - the classes were NEVER balanced dude. They really never were.

[Uzii]

a skill tweak would be giving our frost skill a proper slow and our lightning it's stun effect.

But frost boolt realy freeze i looked a snowmen last time and lighning stunts dealing nice dmg. Experienced it myself...

[Cashews]

yeah, guys... we've got people discussing orcs and a warriors hypothetical workout regime. this is not constructive.

- just to reiterate, mages are not a support class. we are damage dealers who are forced to spec only 2 damage spells just to survive.
- warriors are an incredibly effective support class, they are also incredibly effective tanks/flag carriers/stun artists/aoe damage dealers (I'm not sure what that stupid argument over their whirlwind attack not counting as ranged was about, 6m of swirling death feels ranged enough to me, especially when delivered after a warrior has landed on your head. the argument that its fair because our fireball has a bit more range is kind of redundant considering the warriors set of closing moves)

we (mages) DO NOT WANT a hp buff or an armor buff, we want a damage buff and a skill tweak if not a complete overhaul.

Even if they aren't played as a support class, sorc inflict aoe damage and thus should be played as part of a team. You can't expect to be effective at 1v1 when your damage skills are aoe. And idk what all this crap about sorc not being able to support is. I'll take a sorc over a tank any day at jarl simply because of that health/mana healing skill and the stuns they have. I will say that warriors do need less team buffs and more self buffs. And sorc could use an upgrade on some of their support skills. But as a rogue, during team play the sorc support skills are a godsend because we have the least health and mana of any class.

[Arsies]

Excuse me Tribal, it was a bad joke.

Btt:

Even if there's a small imbalance between different classes there's definitely an up- and downside for each of them.

To know how to use the ups and to avoid the downs (as long as possible) needs practice, a lot of experience and skill.

I would really like to play with you at least 1 PvP match to see how you are playing. You have a loud omnipresent voice in this thread depending your opinion from first post on. There is a bunch of good players who know how to handle different situations, using all those small tricks & tactics beside simply mashing buttons. Never heard those complaining about anything.

Take it as it is right now and if you're not satisfied with the current balance just stop complaining about / playing pvp until there's the update that is fixing all your names issues.

[currycrab]

A little rant from me.

I notice that by charging a normal skill will give stun. The ability is okay. But during the stun, if it is sorc (arcane shield) or warrior (horn of review) ability are removed too.

I refer to the 2 second of no damage..

Please correct me if i see it wrongly.

[gnug]

im a lvl21 mage, and i understand that we're a support class. the only times i can get 10+ kills is when i see a big group fighting and i spam AoE skills which is what we're made for. i get that we're not supposed to wild west the map. BUT we're made for stuns/slows/knock backs and the only effective thing we have is fireball. rogues dont need nerfed, high dmg 1v1 is what they're made for. mages just need an overhall on their stuns and freezes, i wouldnt mind running into a rogue if my frost bolt would slow them down or an uncharged wind knocked them back effectively. warriors really need a looking at though devs

[Catwomann]

Without pets the classes are no longer balanced :( I hate to say it.....

Agree 200%.

Warriors are now too OP.

Now we can't crit them high with a good pet like horton, and get closer to killing them and they just stun us, then they attack us ( MORE ANNOYING IS THAT THEIR DAMAGE IS VERY VERY HIGH FROM WHAT IT SHOULD BE WITH ALL THOSE STUNS, HEALS AND HIGH HEALTH), and when we attack them they just heal themselves back to full health and that super annoying green protection balls really makes it worse.

We don't have stuns like mages and warriors, except just the trap. Which everyone doesnt find good enough.

The razor shield, which has stun removing upgrade either is bugged or something else intentional change, but I still get slowed and stunned with it.

Biggest problem is pur heal, its so crap.
Warriors can heal and protect themselves for 2-3 seconds but we have to charge our heal for it to THROW (AND NOT INSTANTLY HEAL US) 3 HEALTH PACKS (which dont even heal us to 100%) and THEN THE BIGGEST PROBLEM, WE HAVE TO RUN AND COLLECT OUR HEALTH PACKS BEFORE SOMEONE ELSE DOES, MOST TIME WE CANT COLLECT THEM CAUSE WE ARE STUNNED (90% OF TIME). THESE HEALTH PACKS ARE 'AFTER BATTLE' HEALTH PACKS. USELESS.

Rogues vs rogues is also so inbalanced.
It all depends on 1 HIT, MANY PEOPLE HAVE OPTIC FIBER CONNECTIONS IN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES. Many of us dont have those and our ping and speeds are way ridiculous than others, if its all about 1 Hit then these ppl with better ping win cause their hit is registered earlier than us. Its so ridiculous.

Mages also play with us like a toy, they stun us, attack us, then put that purple sheild thing which is just.......so highly annoying. Literally mages are playing with us. One lvl 20 mage was playing with me for 1-2 minutes, he stunned me and just stood there and as soon as my character came back to senses he would stun again. It was so sad and was pathetic to see my char being played with like that.

If u r a rogue then only thing left to compete about is deaths, who has lower among all rogues.....huh.

Game never had such wrong balance till date.

So annoyed right now.

[nicoB]

All charged attacks have 100% stun? I don't think so. Its only a chance of stun, not a confirmed stun. Since I'm using a warrior, I can only speak for a warrior build: For Skyward Smash, its 25% chance of a stun. It does exactly what is says on the tin. Its the same for the Axe Throw skill too. Alas, no stun chance for Windmill and Chest Splitter, but CS has a 20% chance to disorientate the enemy hit. Not sure is that is considered a stun hit too.

A warrior's charged attacks could never get 100% stun i.e. confirmed stun for every charged attacked. But a rogue armed with the Watchman Bow could get 100% chance of stun for charged attacks. Not forgetting that rogue skills have very low cooldown times.

In short, rogues can pull off a lot of charged skill attacks in rapid succession more than any other class, and with the Watchman Bow, it'll be a confirmed 100% stun hit. That, my friend, is the killer, and is the only beef I have in regards to PvP.

NOTE: Yeah its true rogues run out of mana very quickly, and become vulnerable until they replenish it. But there'll be no one to pick them off, because either their opponents are dead, or are stunned to attack back.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I was talking about charged main attavks as in charginf your weapon. rogues dont have any kind of stun skill what so ever. rogues just have charged weapon attack

[Uzii]

The razor shield, which has stun removing upgrade either is bugged or something else intentional change, but I still get slowed and stunned with it.


Rogues vs rogues is also so inbalanced.
It all depends on 1 HIT, MANY PEOPLE HAVE OPTIC FIBER CONNECTIONS IN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES. Many of us dont have those and our ping and speeds are way ridiculous than others, if its all about 1 Hit then these ppl with better ping win cause their hit is registered earlier than us. Its so ridiculous.

Razor shield realy does not seem to work properly i mentioned it earlier.
Alway laging even with good ping skills took 2-3 sec to take effect i alway wonder what has happend..well it actualy nothing happend and i just died...

[nicoB]

Agree 200%.

Warriors are now too OP.

Now we can't crit them high with a good pet like horton, and get closer to killing them and they just stun us, then they attack us ( MORE ANNOYING IS THAT THEIR DAMAGE IS VERY VERY HIGH FROM WHAT IT SHOULD BE WITH ALL THOSE STUNS, HEALS AND HIGH HEALTH), and when we attack them they just heal themselves back to full health and that super annoying green protection balls really makes it worse.

We don't have stuns like mages and warriors, except just the trap. Which everyone doesnt find good enough.

The razor shield, which has stun removing upgrade either is bugged or something else intentional change, but I still get slowed and stunned with it.

Biggest problem is pur heal, its so crap.
Warriors can heal and protect themselves for 2-3 seconds but we have to charge our heal for it to THROW (AND NOT INSTANTLY HEAL US) 3 HEALTH PACKS (which dont even heal us to 100%) and THEN THE BIGGEST PROBLEM, WE HAVE TO RUN AND COLLECT OUR HEALTH PACKS BEFORE SOMEONE ELSE DOES, MOST TIME WE CANT COLLECT THEM CAUSE WE ARE STUNNED (90% OF TIME). THESE HEALTH PACKS ARE 'AFTER BATTLE' HEALTH PACKS. USELESS.

Rogues vs rogues is also so inbalanced.
It all depends on 1 HIT, MANY PEOPLE HAVE OPTIC FIBER CONNECTIONS IN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES. Many of us dont have those and our ping and speeds are way ridiculous than others, if its all about 1 Hit then these ppl with better ping win cause their hit is registered earlier than us. Its so ridiculous.

Mages also play with us like a toy, they stun us, attack us, then put that purple sheild thing which is just.......so highly annoying. Literally mages are playing with us. One lvl 20 mage was playing with me for 1-2 minutes, he stunned me and just stood there and as soon as my character came back to senses he would stun again. It was so sad and was pathetic to see my char being played with like that.

If u r a rogue then only thing left to compete about is deaths, who has lower among all rogues.....huh.

Game never had such wrong balance till date.

So annoyed right now.

Very sad and 100% true. i feel your pain.

[Syylent]

Agree 200%.

Warriors are now too OP.

Now we can't crit them high with a good pet like horton, and get closer to killing them and they just stun us, then they attack us ( MORE ANNOYING IS THAT THEIR DAMAGE IS VERY VERY HIGH FROM WHAT IT SHOULD BE WITH ALL THOSE STUNS, HEALS AND HIGH HEALTH), and when we attack them they just heal themselves back to full health and that super annoying green protection balls really makes it worse.

We don't have stuns like mages and warriors, except just the trap. Which everyone doesnt find good enough.

The razor shield, which has stun removing upgrade either is bugged or something else intentional change, but I still get slowed and stunned with it.

Biggest problem is pur heal, its so crap.
Warriors can heal and protect themselves for 2-3 seconds but we have to charge our heal for it to THROW (AND NOT INSTANTLY HEAL US) 3 HEALTH PACKS (which dont even heal us to 100%) and THEN THE BIGGEST PROBLEM, WE HAVE TO RUN AND COLLECT OUR HEALTH PACKS BEFORE SOMEONE ELSE DOES, MOST TIME WE CANT COLLECT THEM CAUSE WE ARE STUNNED (90% OF TIME). THESE HEALTH PACKS ARE 'AFTER BATTLE' HEALTH PACKS. USELESS.

Rogues vs rogues is also so inbalanced.
It all depends on 1 HIT, MANY PEOPLE HAVE OPTIC FIBER CONNECTIONS IN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES. Many of us dont have those and our ping and speeds are way ridiculous than others, if its all about 1 Hit then these ppl with better ping win cause their hit is registered earlier than us. Its so ridiculous.

Mages also play with us like a toy, they stun us, attack us, then put that purple sheild thing which is just.......so highly annoying. Literally mages are playing with us. One lvl 20 mage was playing with me for 1-2 minutes, he stunned me and just stood there and as soon as my character came back to senses he would stun again. It was so sad and was pathetic to see my char being played with like that.

If u r a rogue then only thing left to compete about is deaths, who has lower among all rogues.....huh.

Game never had such wrong balance till date.

So annoyed right now.

While I agree with most, the upgrade for Razor does not mention a stun removing ability. It states (on mine) removing snares, roots and slow effects.

Not all of us in developed countries have fiber either. I can't stand my internet connection. It is the best I can get though.

I haven't experimented with health packs. Hard to run over them when you are stunned. Although I do see the other rogues tactics of setting up prior to a fight. Usually they don't have a chance to get to them.

The thing I would like fixed to better see the balance of classes is the rapid succession of skills firing. Being shot, dashed and stunned all within milliseconds is a bit much.

[nicoB]

Frost bolt freezes and slows. i witnessed this first hand as my rogue was frozen and then inflicted with a slow affect after tje freeze wore off. a warrior coyldnt do and a rogue cant either. and all the mages had staffs. so wat else could it possibly be but frostbolt

[Uzii]

While I agree with most, the upgrade for Razor does not mention a stun removing ability. It states (on mine) removing snares, roots and slow effects.


But it does not work as it should. Even when i use charged razor im still slowed down

[Uzii]

Frost bolt freezes and slows. i witnessed this first hand as my rogue was frozen and then inflicted with a slow affect after tje freeze wore off. a warrior coyldnt do and a rogue cant either. and all the mages had staffs. so wat else could it possibly be but frostbolt

Yes as i told many times it does work

[Cashews]

im a lvl21 mage, and i understand that we're a support class. the only times i can get 10+ kills is when i see a big group fighting and i spam AoE skills which is what we're made for. i get that we're not supposed to wild west the map. BUT we're made for stuns/slows/knock backs and the only effective thing we have is fireball. rogues dont need nerfed, high dmg 1v1 is what they're made for. mages just need an overhall on their stuns and freezes, i wouldnt mind running into a rogue if my frost bolt would slow them down or an uncharged wind knocked them back effectively. warriors really need a looking at though devs
I completely agree.

[Syylent]

But it does not work as it should. Even when i use charged razor im still slowed down

Then it would be an issue. I will look more tonight and see. I have never really noticed.

Although, my warrior is being neglected so may run around the maps and chuckle as people try to kill me.

[Erdnase]

Frost bolt freezes and slows. i witnessed this first hand as my rogue was frozen and then inflicted with a slow affect after the freeze wore off. a warrior couldnt do and a rogue cant either. and all the mages had staffs. so what else could it possibly be but frostbolt


Yes as i told many times it does work

Nice. Its never worked for me, but just because it hasn't worked for me doesn't mean it doesn't. So i guess i'm going to have to update my opinion (back on page 15) to, tho many i'm sure will disagree, the mages need very very little change, or even none at all. Some say we need a dmg buff but if u use the right weapon that will solve the prob. Thx again for all ur hard work dev team.

[Friufi]

I was talking about charged main attavks as in charginf your weapon. rogues dont have any kind of stun skill what so ever. rogues just have charged weapon attack

Tanks do not get 100% confirmed stun even with a normal charged attack, it's the percentages. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. I've tested this many times, do try it out if you don't believe me.

Rogues, however, with the Watchman Bow, can get very high percentage of, or perhaps confirmed, stuns every time they pull off a charged attack. With their low cooldown skills, stunlock is all too easy to achieve, and with their high DPS, a few seconds of stun is all it takes for inevitable death.

Hence rogues rule PvP.

[Cashews]

Tanks do not get 100% confirmed stun even with a normal charged attack, it's the percentages. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. I've tested this many times, do try it out if you don't believe me.

Rogues, however, with the Watchman Bow, can get very high percentage of, or perhaps confirmed, stuns every time they pull off a charged attack. With their low cooldown skills, stunlock is all too easy to achieve, and with their high DPS, a few seconds of stun is all it takes for inevitable death.

Hence rogues rule PvP.

The bow has a 50% chance to stun. For two seconds. And only with the charged normal attack, which takes quite long to charge up.

[currycrab]

Here is a summary of all class:

Warrior:
Strong point: High hp, high defense, high in healing and high in running
Weak point: lowest damage class,

Rogue:
Strong point: high damage, high critical,
Weak point: low hp

Sorc:
Strong point: high mana, good ability in skills
Weak point: low hp

I had 3 different class using the best gears and the outcome as follow:

Sorc:
It stand a chance to win rogue and warrior in 1v1 as well as sorc

Rogue:
It stand a chance to win warrior, rogue as well as unskilled / injured sorc

Warrior:
It stand a chance to win all class but hitting at slower pace compare to different class

Although stun rate coming from rogue's bow are indeed high, sorc has a skill for stunning (except opponent may break the stun and i am unsure if this is related to a bug)

The sorc build could be found at sorc forum and it is useful for new sorc user. Your gear will speak on behalf of your effectiveness in PvP.

In summary, all class are balance and it is highly depend on team work. Solo are good for backstab or surprise attack. But you die at a faster rate. Now we just need our pet back into PvP and we can start the ball rolling..

[gnug]

Here is a summary of all class:

Warrior:
Strong point: High hp, high defense, high in healing and high in running
Weak point: lowest damage class,

Rogue:
Strong point: high damage, high critical,
Weak point: low hp

Sorc:
Strong point: high mana, good ability in skills
Weak point: low hp

I had 3 different class using the best gears and the outcome as follow:

Sorc:
It stand a chance to win rogue and warrior in 1v1 as well as sorc

Rogue:
It stand a chance to win warrior, rogue as well as unskilled / injured sorc

Warrior:
It stand a chance to win all class but hitting at slower pace compare to different class

Although stun rate coming from rogue's bow are indeed high, sorc has a skill for stunning (except opponent may break the stun and i am unsure if this is related to a bug)

The sorc build could be found at sorc forum and it is useful for new sorc user. Your gear will speak on behalf of your effectiveness in PvP.

In summary, all class are balance and it is highly depend on team work. Solo are good for backstab or surprise attack. But you die at a faster rate. Now we just need our pet back into PvP and we can start the ball rolling..

the sorc skills are good BUT they all got nerfed for pvp. if all of the mages stuns and knock backs worked then it would be an even fight

[currycrab]

well.. i tried on rogue twice. 1 won, 1 loss.

It depend on what skill you go first..

I got lucked and managed to kill 2 warrior at a go (2v1)

For warrior and rogue, the "damage direction" will auto aim even if your toon is walking. For sorc, it seem to be following the direction your pad is going. Please correct me if i am wrong.

I tried to charge a normal attack and when i get close to it, the direction become my pad direction and not my opponent direction.

[bluotaku]

Now I understand the need to nerf sorc cc so you can't just stun lock ppl, but man sorcs need frost to slow or something for escape. I have no issues with rogues. If I get the stuns, I win. If not, the rogue probably wins. It's not a big deal to me.

Warriors are the problem. You can't outrun them; they have skyward smash. You can't stand toe to toe and fight; they have stuns, snares, high hp, and decent damage (don't give me that "low damage" talk; mages and rogues aren't elite Jarl; warriors do good damage to them). They have HoR invulnerability. They have a huge mana supply from VB. It's extremely rare that I beat a top warrior 1v1. When I do, I probably caught him with his HoR on CD or something or already low on health.

Teamwork can't do crap to a team of warriors with heals, 2 sec invulnerability, damage, stuns, snares, and all that armor and beef.

[currycrab]

Now I understand the need to nerf sorc cc so you can't just stun lock ppl, but man sorcs need frost to slow or something for escape. I have no issues with rogues. If I get the stuns, I win. If not, the rogue probably wins. It's not a big deal to me.

Warriors are the problem. You can't outrun them; they have skyward smash. You can't stand toe to toe and fight; they have stuns, snares, high hp, and decent damage (don't give me that "low damage" talk; mages and rogues aren't elite Jarl; warriors do good damage to them). They have HoR invulnerability. They have a huge mana supply from VB. It's extremely rare that I beat a top warrior 1v1. When I do, I probably caught him with his HoR on CD or something or already low on health.

Teamwork can't do crap to a team of warriors with heals, 2 sec invulnerability, damage, stuns, snares, and all that armor and beef.

Did you get it correct? Last week before the update on PvP, every one was yanking to nerf rogue's critical. Now sorc become the center of attention for nerfing.. Isn't sorc one of the least class being played? Isn't every one wanted sorc to be stronger?

This is getting weird.

The question of nerfing another class seem to be alway rising. Instead of nerfing, why not improve on things?

i will vote for sorc class to have the stun skill only. For normal charged attack by all class, no stun is allow.

[Ruejade]

@.@ wow, so now after the update, it's time for warriors to be OP?

[Energizeric]

Nah, rogues and warriors are both about even, sorcerers are way behind, even worse than before the update.

I had a record of about 420-340 before the update. Since the update I got like 5 kills and 60 deaths. Half the time I die I don't even know why I died because I had full health and there was no enemy nearby. I just hear a zap and I'm dead, still don't see the enemy.

And when I fight warriors they don't even come near me but they still kill me which makes no sense. They swing their sword which visually looks like it's way down the hallway from me, but I die from it even though sometimes I'm around the corner even. I think warriors just have to swing the sword if someone is in view (doesn't matter how far away) and they will hit no matter how far or what.

I thought the advantage of the mage was to have range spells, but the mage seems to have the shortest range of any of the classes. Can someone tell me what exactly a mage is the best at? Because right now I just don't see anything. If I was a rogue or warrior and a mage joined my team, I'd leave and find a different game. On the other hand, when I'm roaming the PvP dungeon and I see another mage, I charge at him to kill him (which is usually easy since I'm pretty OP for a mage). When I see a rogue or warrior I run the other way and hope I can find another member of my team to hide behind.

And I see some players got like 5k kills. If I played 24/7 since PvP was released I wouldn't have that many yet. At best I can get like 5-6 per game, and that is a good game.

[nicoB]

Nah, rogues and warriors are both about even, sorcerers are way behind, even worse than before the update.

I had a record of about 420-340 before the update. Since the update I got like 5 kills and 60 deaths. Half the time I die I don't even know why I died because I had full health and there was no enemy nearby. I just hear a zap and I'm dead, still don't see the enemy.

And when I fight warriors they don't even come near me but they still kill me which makes no sense. They swing their sword which visually looks like it's way down the hallway from me, but I die from it even though sometimes I'm around the corner even. I think warriors just have to swing the sword if someone is in view (doesn't matter how far away) and they will hit no matter how far or what.

I thought the advantage of the mage was to have range spells, but the mage seems to have the shortest range of any of the classes. Can someone tell me what exactly a mage is the best at? Because right now I just don't see anything. If I was a rogue or warrior and a mage joined my team, I'd leave and find a different game. On the other hand, when I'm roaming the PvP dungeon and I see another mage, I charge at him to kill him (which is usually easy since I'm pretty OP for a mage). When I see a rogue or warrior I run the other way and hope I can find another member of my team to hide behind.

And I see some players got like 5k kills. If I played 24/7 since PvP was released I wouldn't have that many yet. At best I can get like 5-6 per game, and that is a good game.

idk. if anything mages seem better. a few mages actually got more kills than me in in each match, granted that it was only by 1 or 2 and i was gaurding the flag the whole time. i honestly feel more comfortable fighting yojimbo than any mage(unless i know he/she isnt very good). and yojimbo is a beast!!! what makes the difference is the shield stun and heal. more mages are using that combo and its super effective.....on rogues. you guy are just kinda screwed when a warrior comes. but everyone is. and yes i agree warriors have ridiculous range

[u___]

i fighted with another warrior both18 against a 19 rogue we die both rogue got 3/4 live anyways

[Yoho]

For now warrior's skills are way overpowered. They are invulnerable in a team of 2-3 warriors together, and they are capable of 'one-combo' rogue in 1sec when rogue is stunned (stunned rogue is a dead rogue). There are warriors with 4000/1000 k/d ratio and over 1200 flags ;) , that's the tip for who rly rules the pvp now. I'm against rogue's one hit ability also. It shouldn't be farm-kill game.
I would like to suggest adding enemy points on map (red for instance), when they are near you, cause of impossibility to rotate camera angle and huge amount of blind spots.

[Astrocat]

Warrior should have less HP/Armor but a bit more Damage/Mana. IMO. Because, everyone says warrior is OP for it's HP and Armor, but what if they do nerf it? Low HP, low Armor, low mana and low damage? Lol? :stupid:

[Yoho]

Warrior should have less HP/Armor but a bit more Damage/Mana. IMO. Because, everyone says warrior is OP for it's HP and Armor, but what if they do nerf it? Low HP, low Armor, low mana and low damage? Lol? :stupid:
In my opinion they should stay as is in HP/Armor & Damage/Mana. Longer skill cooldown or less stun/heal (idk what's warriors skills' names).
And no common CTF Kill leaderboard, please, less complaints about who-kills-more competition. Best warriors now have twice better k/d ratio 3x better flag carrier index (lvl 21), so they do great I think

[nicoB]

Seems like most of the complaints about rogues being OP is coming from people getting owned by twinks. but end game capped pvp is a whole different story

[Energizeric]

idk. if anything mages seem better. a few mages actually got more kills than me in in each match, granted that it was only by 1 or 2 and i was gaurding the flag the whole time. i honestly feel more comfortable fighting yojimbo than any mage(unless i know he/she isnt very good). and yojimbo is a beast!!! what makes the difference is the shield stun and heal. more mages are using that combo and its super effective.....on rogues. you guy are just kinda screwed when a warrior comes. but everyone is. and yes i agree warriors have ridiculous range

My problem is I'm usually dead long before I have the chance to use any skills or even a combo. I just hear a zap and I'm dead instantly. I don't see anyone coming nor do I have time to react.

Sometimes I do see a rogue coming and I try to start out with a stun (fireball) and then follow up with my other attacks (lightning & frost) but frost does not stun them at all, so by the time I use frost they usually hit me and I'm dead at that point. I'm guessing I took a good amount of their health with my 3 skills, but not enough to kill them. Every once in a while I do kill them, and I'm guessing they weren't at full health when the fight started. The problem is that I need to land 4-5 hits to kill them but they only have to land one. It's very hard to win a battle when you can't get hit even once.

Mages on the other hand are very easy for me to kill. I have a better build than most mages, so usually I can kill them very quick and still have 75% health left. I think the main reason my kills are down in the last couple of days is because very few mages are actually playing PvP. It's almost all rogues and warriors.

[wolfkult]

Rogue>Warrior>>Mage

An equally geared/skilled rogue v warrior the rogue wins 4 out of 5 times. Maybe this is by design but I have had my 21 warrior die in <5 seconds (2.9k hp, 840 armor) if I don't have HoR bubble up for some of the initial crits. I have a 16 rogue and from that perspective it's sort of ridiculous. If I have full mana and I can win against warriors/mages every time sometimes two at a time. Rogue DPS needs to be cut slightly somehow -- either shave off crits, link cooldowns, or lower base damage.

Warriors are ok except for warrior v warrior. Equally geared/skilled warriors will ALWAYS go to a stalemate. The DPS cannot outweigh the armor/hp/HoR in time for someone not to add. It's sort of pointless for two warriors to even fight 1on1 -- neither will win and very likely when someone adds will not get the deathblow. Improbable but I'm just spitballing but if warriros had some sort of DPS boost versus other warriors that'd be swell.

Mages need something. At best they can get away from a warrior and pretty much never beat a rogue (equal gear/skill, I'm not talking about someone w/ a 4 million gold build beating some random pre-teen). They need either more hp, more armor, or a much longer range attacks (which are pointless in maze scenarios like current pvp arena but if there are open fields in future...).


This thread is about class balance but part of the explanation for rogue dominance I've read is that rogues are supposed to win 1on1. That's fine but the current pvp has no incentive to do anything but 1on1 (and get deathblows). There is no reason I should run with a group as a warrior because I'll rarely get the db and I don't get anything for carrying the flag or even for my team winning. As a rogue it totally doesn't make sense to be in a group, I'm better off by myself. Mages, eh, poor mages :) If there was bigger incentive for winning CTF, carrying flags, healing, etc then rogues would not be as strong as they only offer DPS to a group.

[warbluefish]

somehow i felt sorcs stun time is much shortwr than warrior and rogues. im not sure. a few times today i stuned the rogue and not even my second skill launchs they got up and killed me with one shot. feels very strange. not the ping. my ping always 237.

also does mages have the shortest att range or the same as warrior? is it a bit unfair? i can kill some warriors but not fully geared and very skilled. just feel anoying u cant kill them and cant even run away from them. even i run pass a cornor and they pull me back in a 90 degree angle.

for mages we have to use corners well. if not we not stand a chance to any other classes.

feel sad about it.

oh also maybe i should put this into ctf thread. when u carrying the flag. Devs. could u make the health reduction by %. its so unfair to mages and rogue. i tried once whithout heal and take the health buff on the half way. the flag will kill me before i reach my base. never a problem to warriors.

[currycrab]

Please correct me if I am wrong

Now a days I been seeing warrior being able to teleport. Is this due to lag or bug?

They seem to appear in front of u but after a sec or two, they score a flag and I lost the sight of them.

For sorc fireball, the stun rate is short and can be "counter" using skill. Should this be longer timing compare to normal charge skill stun and should it be 100% stun and cancel opponent skill [except any 2sec protection skill]

Most of the sorc skill that give stun, it has low %. And more over it require to charge. Indeed as compare to rogue bow, rogue has higher % to stun and not sorc.

When spawning, are we able to have a protection area to prevent spawn killing as well as a "secret" tunnel that is protected so that we can gather together.

There are times that opponent are working as team, and we are running like a lost child looking for mother. We get kill when we encounter 1v2+

[Friufi]

The bow has a 50% chance to stun. For two seconds. And only with the charged normal attack, which takes quite long to charge up.

Every character has the same chargeup times. Rogues with Watchman Bow are OP because of the 50% chance of stun, no one can match that stun chance, except perhaps for sorcs. But then, sorcs need stun to stand a chance.

[Jerahmeel De Guzman]

somehow i felt sorcs stun time is much shortwr than warrior and rogues. im not sure. a few times today i stuned the rogue and not even my second skill launchs they got up and killed me with one shot. feels very strange. not the ping. my ping always 237.

I get this feeling also. I feel that rogues and warriors stuns last longer than a mages stun. That or I'm already dead right after I'm stunned to count how long.

[warbluefish]

Please correct me if I am wrong

Now a days I been seeing warrior being able to teleport. Is this due to lag or bug?

They seem to appear in front of u but after a sec or two, they score a flag and I lost the sight of them.

For sorc fireball, the stun rate is short and can be "counter" using skill. Should this be longer timing compare to normal charge skill stun and should it be 100% stun and cancel opponent skill [except any 2sec protection skill]

Most of the sorc skill that give stun, it has low %. And more over it require to charge. Indeed as compare to rogue bow, rogue has higher % to stun and not sorc.

When spawning, are we able to have a protection area to prevent spawn killing as well as a "secret" tunnel that is protected so that we can gather together.

There are times that opponent are working as team, and we are running like a lost child looking for mother. We get kill when we encounter 1v2+


totally agree i saw some warrior teleport too. i stuned a warrior in the middle of the ground then it disappeared. when i went left to the cornor i found him carrying flag runing towers his base. how could that happening?

[Megabird56]

^^i have also had a problem with phantom enemies. I attack n attack them, then they go thru the wall into some other part of the map attacking away at someone else.

[warbluefish]

im so.sry devs. its like i complaining all morning. but what the changes did u make on the balancing issue? im confuced.

looks like warrior got even stronger. mages fireball have been nerfed. before update when mages see a warrior they through a fireball and have a chance to run. but now fireball doesnt stun and when u try to run away warrior leap over and seems have a 100%stun . it meand death penalty for mages.

and also mages side effects are all from charged skills. but in reality u just dont have the time to charge in fight. rogue can kill u in one shot. max three. warrior 3 att. maybe one windmall. i know mages suppose stay behind others but fisrt. there is no garentee a warrior in your team. and also rogue and warrior on other side has longer att range. so no where is safe for mages.

i was pretty happy with my mage before update. i have 50%chance to win the fight for any classes. but now only mages that i can win.

[Xman]

That's it. I will stop playing from now until they balanced class, it has been 1 week and after tons of complain about how warrior is super OP, and everything is still the same, when will this ridiculous unbalance stop?. This piss off many of my friends and make them stop playing.
The only thing makes power of Rogue is 1 shot kill, and I'm ok with that (not very ok but still acceptable).
But warrior? It's ridiculous, as tons of players have been already pointed out, why the hell is Warrior's healing skill much much more better than mage's healing skill? 2s invincible for the whole team is ridiculous. 3 wars go together and only god can stop them.
My guild hold 1vs1 event every night, and good mage can win some rogue, some best rogue can win a warrior when they r lucky, and mages have no chance with a good warrior. Including 3 mages in the top of PvP Board, no one can win a war.
I don't know if any of Dev team read this topic, if they read it so the balance should have been changed by now. I'm quite hopeless with the game now.

[Xman]

@Dev team: Please Please Please read this topic, at least 5-6 comment before my comment complaining about how weak a Sor is, even Rogue and War have to admit that and you still do NOTHING?

[JuiceBox]

That's it. I will stop playing from now until they balanced class, it has been 1 week and after tons of complain about how warrior is super OP, and everything is still the same, when will this ridiculous unbalance stop?. This piss off many of my friends and make them stop playing.
The only thing makes power of Rogue is 1 shot kill, and I'm ok with that (not very ok but still acceptable).
But warrior? It's ridiculous, as tons of players have been already pointed out, why the hell is Warrior's healing skill much much more better than mage's healing skill? 2s invincible for the whole team is ridiculous. 3 wars go together and only god can stop them.
My guild hold 1vs1 event every night, and good mage can win some rogue, some best rogue can win a warrior when they r lucky, and mages have no chance with a good warrior. Including 3 mages in the top of PvP Board, no one can win a war.
I don't know if any of Dev team read this topic, if they read it so the balance should have been changed by now. I'm quite hopeless with the game now.

Also warriors heal, shields and heals whole party to full life. Too OP.

[Crixitron]

I'm a rouge too but I hate Aimed shot cuz I don't have it and It always kill me lol!

[linuxjedi]

I'm about to stop playing too and chalk up the $30 I've spent on platinum a total loss. I would have thought a little more balancing would have been done by now. As it's taken this long I can only expect that it won't be coming anytime soon either.

[warbluefish]

Its getting more weired. i was shot by a rogue through the wall. i walking towards top left corner of the map. i can see the rogue on right. i was charging fireball prepare when i turn the corner i through it. i still runing towards the corner right now. i saw the rogue shot a aimed shot or some arrow skill the arrow went through the wall and killed me. omg . my worst day playing pvp.

so weired. teleport warriors and through wall shot rogue!!!!!!!! y dont u give mage a AOE skill covers all map. hahahahaha.

[Fluffysox]

Rogues can stun infinitely by charging their normal attack and timing it right just when you come out of a stun...pain in the arse

[BadWolf]

im a sorcerer, and i get slaughtered! there should be higher walls so you can ambush and sneak around!

[Astrocat]

I want a castle!

[nicoB]

Every character has the same chargeup times. Rogues. with Watchman Bow are OP because of the 50% chance of stun, no one can match that stun chance, except perhaps for sorcs. But then, sorcs need stun to stand a chance. switching fome daggers to a bow nearly cuts dps in half. with the dps that low. the normal attack just tickles enemies. so 50% stun chance is resonable

[nicoB]

Rogues can stun infinitely by charging their. normal attack and timing it right just when you come out of a stun...pain in the arse

Cant all classes? its the rogues only stun attack. warriors stun me multiple times. and mages stun seems to last the longest? correct me if I'm wrong

[nicoB]

I'm about to stop playing too and chalk up the $30 I've spent on platinum a total loss. I. would have thought a little more balancing would have been done by now. As it's taken this long I can only expect that it won't be coming anytime soon either.

The devs are working on the new expansion. i dont think pvp is top priority. i would expect major changes in pvp with the new expansion

[Cero]

I get this feeling also. I feel that rogues and warriors stuns last longer than a mages stun. That or I'm already dead right after I'm stunned to count how long.


having a shorter stun than others is just fair for mages.
knowing that most of our offensive attack makes a stun.

charge fireball + charge lightning + charge attack = longer than or the same as rogue/warrior's stun.
if you combine them you can own them 1vs1.

[Heiki]

I'm only a lvl 20 warrior but quite well geared (Juggernaut + watchman sword) so take this with a grain of salt.

I don't do enough dps to Lifethief rogues to put them down before they kill me. Skyward stun is very unreliable and stops you in your track for a split second making you loose ground. Most of the time though, I just get 2 shotted (795 armor).

I don't dps geared mages fast enough for me to take them down and I can't charge anything because of all the interrupts. As a bonus, invulnerability shield from HoR doesn't work in pvp, been killed through that countless times.

Basically I can pick off some low on life random dude or soften some targets for the rogues to get the kill.

If it's an issue of me learning to play I'd be glad to be enlightened but so far I really don't understand why everyone's crying warriors are OP.

I have a mage and a rogue too, both lvl 20 and geared similarly. Both have positive K/D ratios except my warrior.

I don't care about damage too much but please allow me to wail on a rogue for more trhan 2 seconds before getting creamed. I feel like i'm a glass cannon without the cannon.

[Cashews]

Rogues bow stun lasts for 2s. And has 50% chance to work. Not to mention there aren't that many bow rogues in PVP. Sounds to me like you guys are just trying to find something to blame your deaths on and a stun is very noticeable.

[Cashews]

Also, all this shooting through walls and teleporting players is due to latency on your network. So try buying a new router and faster internet service.

[BadWolf]

i feel mages hav a huge disadvantage. rogues kill me in two shots and warriors in groups are invincible. there should either be better mage gear, or the stats for other classes should be modified in pvp to make it more fair

[Cero]

i feel mages hav a huge disadvantage. rogues kill me in two shots and warriors in groups are invincible. there should either be better mage gear, or the stats for other classes should be modified in pvp to make it more fair

in 1vs1
if your mage stun-lock them they are your toys
charge fireball+charge lightning +charge rifle = win

in teamplay
playsafe. stay behind and spam those stuns
also be kind to heal and give mana to.rogues.

[Energizeric]

in 1vs1
if your mage stun-lock them they are your toys
charge fireball+charge lightning +charge rifle = win

in teamplay
playsafe. stay behind and spam those stuns
also be kind to heal and give mana to.rogues.

What exactly does charged lightning do? I don't have the extra point for the charged effect, but that effect was only to give a chance at AoE, it didn't do any kind of stun from what it says in its description.

[Heiki]

It has a 20% chance to stun on a full charge, different from the AoE lightning one.

[Realtx]

Good Mages kill anything unless jumped. They are hard hitters and there stun is almost unbeatable. Im a pure str warrior level 20 and die in seconds if i get caught by stun as i seem to always do.

[Heiki]

I agree (and do the same with my mage).

The way autotargetting works warriors will always be at a disadvantage in pvp (first targetted enemy player) so we receive the charged aimed shots etc.

Unless we receive a survivability boost, ranged classes will dominate when people finish learning how to play them.

[Cashews]

I agree (and do the same with my mage).

The way autotargetting works warriors will always be at a disadvantage in pvp (first targetted enemy player) so we receive the charged aimed shots etc.

Unless we receive a survivability boost, ranged classes will dominate when people finish learning how to play them.

I don't think the problem is that we don't know how to play ranged classes. Maybe you just need to learn how to tank.

[Heiki]

I never said you didn't know how to play, I said the playstyle of everybody will get better after a while, why so defensive?

And I'm not sure how you can argue with my point on autotargetting, i'm trying to contribute here, not grow my epeen.

Tanking involves soaking damage for your teammates, which i do very well thank you very much.

[nicoB]

I want a castle!

me too

[uzidredar]

Another disillusioned sorcerer here. After spending plat and a small fortune of hard earned gold trying to at least last more than 2s in combat I stopped playing. The lack of response from sts is a disappointment. My respect to the brave sorcerers that have been able to survive in such a disadvantageous environment. Sadly DL has been utterly forgotten by them too and I can't sate my pvp thirst anywhere else. Ugh

[Cashews]

I never said you didn't know how to play, I said the playstyle of everybody will get better after a while, why so defensive?

And I'm not sure how you can argue with my point on autotargetting, i'm trying to contribute here, not grow my epeen.

Tanking involves soaking damage for your teammates, which i do very well thank you very much.

Your a tank. Your supposed to take damage for the team. Which means you should be auto targeted first. A warrior can kill a rogue just as easily as a rogue can kill a warrior. A warrior also has many gap closing and stun skills to fight ranged rogues with. Skyward smash/windmill is an almost impossible skill combo to escape from and is extremely effective on ranged builds.

[Energizeric]

I don't think the problem is that we don't know how to play ranged classes.

From what I have experienced, warriors have longer range on their attacks than either sorcerers or rogues. The warrior can be way down the hallway from me, and he swings his sword or axe, and even though it doesn't look like it comes even close to hitting me, I get hit. At the same distance if I try to shoot my fireball at him, it doesn't go far enough to hit him. Also, the warrior can just all the way down the hallway to attack someone. Warriors got better range than anyone else.

[warbluefish]

From what I have experienced, warriors have longer range on their attacks than either sorcerers or rogues. The warrior can be way down the hallway from me, and he swings his sword or axe, and even though it doesn't look like it comes even close to hitting me, I get hit. At the same distance if I try to shoot my fireball at him, it doesn't go far enough to hit him. Also, the warrior can just all the way down the hallway to attack someone. Warriors got better range than anyone else.

that is the thing im wondering about. it looks like warrior can lock on their targets with normal attack. it always hapens during the fight and u want to keep some distance to use ur spell . it seems the sword no where near the mage but u still take the dmg. maybe the mage is still in warriors att range but we just cant see it. if so hope devs could work on it a bit.

[ikavli]

Nerf warrior healing!!!

Oh no...I got little health..I run to mommy and healz! Then I just turn around and and 1shot the poor ****ty mage

[kiffnshey]

This pvp still unfair rogue and mage still unbalance with warrior, rogue still high damage and very easy kill warrior pls make all balance damage n fair

[Heiki]

that is the thing im wondering about. it looks like warrior can lock on their targets with normal attack. it always hapens during the fight and u want to keep some distance to use ur spell . it seems the sword no where near the mage but u still take the dmg. maybe the mage is still in warriors att range but we just cant see it. if so hope devs could work on it a bit.

That is called you lagging.

[Limsi]

This pvp still unfair rogue and mage still unbalance with warrior, rogue still high damage and very easy kill warrior pls make all balance damage n fair

I might have to disagree with that though. If this was the case, then there would be no specialty for each class. Rogues are meant to crit and deal heavy single damage whereas Warriors are meant to stay longer and be durable to any forms of attack while dishing out a fair amount of damage.

[Energizeric]

That is called you lagging.

Nope, it's not due to lagging. It's due to the warriors having a much larger range than what you can see in the graphics. The sword might be 3 feet long, but in practice it has a range of 15 meters long.

I know this because often times I get hit while the warrior is way down the hallway, and I was not running away nor was he running towards me. He just reaches out and hits me, while at the same time I shoot my fireball (which has a 14m range). My fireball doesn't go far enough to hit him, but he surely hits me. It has happened numerous times.

[warbluefish]

its not lagging. my ping is always about 200. and u can see at warrior jump over the walls and the arrow went through the wall. went in from other side the wall and went out this side of the wall.

[Heiki]

I might have to disagree with that though. If this was the case, then there would be no specialty for each class. Rogues are meant to crit and deal heavy single damage whereas Warriors are meant to stay longer and be durable to any forms of attack while dishing out a fair amount of damage.

I'm perfectly fine with that, except last time I faced you in CTF I died in 5 seconds and was stunned the whole time by your bow charged normal attack.

I didn't really feel durable and it didn't seem like I dealt a "fair amount of damage".

[warbluefish]

haha. rogue players r playing lot betternow. i think i get one shot kill about 70% chance when i faceing a rogue now.

mages stun is good. but how many chance can get to 1 v1 whit warrior. and also u will be ganged down long before u finish the warrior.

[Ruejade]

I'm perfectly fine with that, except last time I faced you in CTF I died in 5 seconds and was stunned the whole time by your bow charged normal attack.

I didn't really feel durable and it didn't seem like I dealt a "fair amount of damage".

She has the best rogue gear lol. And 1v1 against a rouge with a bow is just hard to win.

The problem with warriors is that once they clump, they become an invincible bunch of blenders just mowing down people. And in my opinion it's not really that fun because not a lot of skill is required to carry out that strategy. Just stick, spin, heal, kill. And they're unstoppable unless the enemy is a good and well coordinated team.

[Catwomann]

I think as limmy said, rogues are meant to deal high damage and mages are meant to stun and do aoe attacks. Real problem here is warrior, who have heals which shouldnt be bad if they don't have such high damage. Their damage isn't that low compared to rogues and mages u see. And their protective sheild should only last for 1 sec. Also those mages who complain that they can't last fpor 2-3 secs and die in one shot, either u choose a build where u have all 4 attacking skills and die in one shot it u choose a balanced build and take shield, heal, lightning and flame. With shield and heal, really really hard to defeat a mage. They literally play with pour characters like toys, keep us stunned and attack when they want.

[Astrocat]

I might have to disagree with that though. If this was the case, then there would be no specialty for each class. Rogues are meant to crit and deal heavy single damage whereas Warriors are meant to stay longer and be durable to any forms of attack while dishing out a fair amount of damage.

Fully agree, hence the warrior does not survive. Rogues, high damage, indeed. Warrior, survive, but it's not the case.

[Ruejade]

What could be done in my opinion is that the cool down for windmill and skyward should be increased a bit, or just increase the mana needed to use them, since warrs can spam their skills without even worrying about mana most of the time.

[Astrocat]

What could be done in my opinion is that the cool down for windmill and skyward should be increased a bit, or just increase the mana needed to use them, since warrs can spam their skills without even worrying about mana most of the time.

Disagree. Did you even try PvP with as maxed warrior?

[Ruejade]

Umm, nope. I guess my observations are not really correct then. Then please ignore the suggestions about the cool downs and mana. How about a small tweak, maybe stop windmill from damaging people when the warr is stunned?

Windmill is a bit too powerful againsts squishies at the moment based on my observations. I think that something should be done to prevent invincible warriors sticking together stomping all over the map. I hope you get what I mean...

[Astrocat]

Umm, nope. I guess my observations are not really correct then. Then please ignore the suggestions about the cool downs and mana. How about a small tweak, maybe stop windmill from damaging people when the warr is stunned?

Windmill is a bit too powerful againsts squishies at the moment based on my observations. I think that something should be done to prevent invincible warriors sticking together stomping all over the map. I hope you get what I mean...

Yeah this I agree. Skills shouldn't attack while stunned, even if I never knew that? O.o

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[Catwomann]

Everything is unfair. Only fair thing would be if MY CHARACTER IS GIVEN THE POWER OF IMMORTALITY!!!! I WANTZZZ IMMORTALITEEEZZZZZZ!!!!!

[Uvabo]

Nope, it's not due to lagging. It's due to the warriors having a much larger range than what you can see in the graphics. The sword might be 3 feet long, but in practice it has a range of 15 meters long.

I know this because often times I get hit while the warrior is way down the hallway, and I was not running away nor was he running towards me. He just reaches out and hits me, while at the same time I shoot my fireball (which has a 14m range). My fireball doesn't go far enough to hit him, but he surely hits me. It has happened numerous times.

Totally agree. I experience this often. War's have sick range. I can be in front of a war, fireball stun him/her, use gale speed boost to move in a straight line away. War will jump and smash, etc. and hit me with the animation being my rifle shot away. Puts me in disbelief all the time to see that. Escaping is extremely difficult when they pursue. Jump and weapon range is ridiculous. I play on wired cable connection. Ping typically 167, and rarely above 200.

[Heiki]

Mana keeps warriors and rogues somewhat closer to each other. Rogues cannot spam these 2k crits or we would all be rogues. Now i wonder how interesting it is to gear for high int on a rogue... Aim shot damage modifiers look like they can take care of the damage part even if you lose a bit of dex.

EDIT: just for giggles I bought the cheapest gear I could find for my lvl 20 rogue, I've got a lifethief with strength and int, helm with strength and int and chest is dex/dodge ranger vest kind. Trinkets are potency blues. Build is aim shot, razor, TRAP, heal. So yea, i'm really gimping this toon...

Lo and behold I still kill more than on my warrior and maintain a positive K/D ratio. Survivability is acceptable with the healthpacks and aim shot still crits at around 1.5k.

For info my war is lvl 20, juggernaut chest, berserker helm and watchman sword of assault, legendary trinkets of potency. So yea, come and tell me warriors dominate another day please.