Official PvP Feedback Thread: Class Balance

[Ruejade]

The problem is, have you ever tried sticking together with 2 or 3 other warriors and stomping the entire map? And of course you get less kills as a warr because rogues are stealing your kills lol.

Usually these days, the team with more warriors on their side will have an advantage over the other team. And warrs are the last to die in teamfights. And during 1on1 matches, they last long enough with the correct build for their teammates to arrive.

So as a conclusion, if warrs go 1on1 and roam, they're easier to kill but their stun and decent high damage makes them formidable.
And if your enemy warriors stick to a bunch and you have no warriors on your team.....bye lol.

The damage output of 5 rogues wouldn't be able to take down 5 warrs before the rogues have all their mana depleted in my opinion.

Warriors can easily dominate in pvp currently but the stats doesnt show it, because their kills get stolen easily lol.

Yeah I'm ranting..... T.T sorry..... I need to let this out.

[Heiki]

I can somewhat agree to your point on teaming warriors. It's not a fun way to play but I guess it works. I prefer my playtime to be fun though so I usually do not enjoy steamrolling on other teams with a pack of stomping orang-utans.

Where I do not agree however is your statement on our 1vs1 survivability and team fight survivability. I'm always the first to die. Usually from a few rogues 20 meters away that unload their charged aimed shots as soon as they see someone.

I'm not asking for the moon. Actually I think pvp would be a lot better if rogues were less squishy but didn't have that 1 hit 1 kill ability. Then we would actually see rogues do something else than drop healthpacks and spam aimed shot (some dont even do that and just spam aimed shot, which actually works so even potheads can own pvp atm).

Warriors in demonlord wouldnt be soloed by lvl20 rogues in crap gear (yours truly) and mages would not disappear from the battlefield as soon as their shield is down.

[frieke]

Gah..sry guys but i think war is way to advataged. Their stun once it hits,lights out. They just womp on ppl til they are dead with no chance to defend bc stun last so long. And mages fireball, pretty overpowering as well. Imo rogue has least adv. Ppl complain about bow stun but that doesnt last nearly as long as war n mages. Plus they are up against two opponents who both potentially have shield and dont have to run around to eat up their own heal. Fixfixfix pleaseeee.
Also,bring back pets :)

[frieke]

Ah, sry I totally agree on wars range too. Its ridiculous. Ive been well away from a warrior and yet somehow his swing still manages to hit me at nearly other end of corridor. And you wonder why rogues sit n spam arrows....stop complaining warriors your the most advantaged class atm with a good setup.

[Heiki]

Why do you assume i'm complaining ? I'm not married to warrior class ffs, i have 3 toons which I play pretty much equally, I'm just voicing what pvp feels like for me, playing all 3 classes, in a pvp feedback thread.

My ultimate concern is to have a good time the night I feel like logging on my war, rogue or mage. So far my war is the least enjoyable in pvp for the reasons I've stated above. You have the right to disagree with me but sorry, no i'm not complaining.

[linuxjedi]

The devs are working on the new expansion. i dont think pvp is top priority. i would expect major changes in pvp with the new expansion

Something as simple as cutting rogue damage in half on a certain ability is the single biggest balancing thing they could do in one shot (pun intended) but they dont seem to care about their game being even closely pvp balanced while they work on an expansion? That would be silly.

[frieke]

Why do you assume i'm complaining ? I'm not married to warrior class ffs, i have 3 toons which I play pretty much equally, I'm just voicing what pvp feels like for me, playing all 3 classes, in a pvp feedback thread.

My ultimate concern is to have a good time the night I feel like logging on my war, rogue or mage. So far my war is the least enjoyable in pvp for the reasons I've stated above. You have the right to disagree with me but sorry, no i'm not complaining.

Doh, no one said you...why take it personally?
I think most peoples aim is to have an enjoyable time.

I too have all three classes and think each has advantages and disadvantages but theres nothing enjoyable about being stunned and pumelled by a war with no chance of defense or being slaughtered halfway down a hall bc a war happens to swing his sword at the other end.

[frieke]

Sorry i dont agree. Mages fireball is deadly. Mage can hit rogues once and dead with that thing or close too it.
Warriors def seem stronger. Ive seen them skyward smash and kill four players at once...thats balanced.
What i have noticed also is stun doesnt seem to affect wars as much if at all more times than not now. Ive seen several times mage n rogue go to stun war m he just keeps walking. That is when hes not jumping over map to base and scoring :p

[Chaoss]

It seems like the lvl difference is abit too big because sometime when i go into games that are lvl 17-20 i easily get owned by people who are lvl 20 and i also noticed that mages does'nt even seem a chance in pvp because when i play both my knight or rogue i easily kill mages. I feel that mages could be buffed up a lil.Also i agree on some comments saying to let us turn the camera view because i easily get backstabbed!

[Heiki]

Sorry i dont agree. Mages fireball is deadly. Mage can hit rogues once and dead with that thing or close too it.
Warriors def seem stronger. Ive seen them skyward smash and kill four players at once...thats balanced.
What i have noticed also is stun doesnt seem to affect wars as much if at all more times than not now. Ive seen several times mage n rogue go to stun war m he just keeps walking. That is when hes not jumping over map to base and scoring :p

This is hilarious. Please at least make your whine a tad more believable. Skyward killing 4 people at once was 4 people having less than 200 life left in a 6 meter radius. How often does that happen?

[warbluefish]

Sorry i dont agree. Mages fireball is deadly. Mage can hit rogues once and dead with that thing or close too it.
Warriors def seem stronger. Ive seen them skyward smash and kill four players at once...thats balanced.
What i have noticed also is stun doesnt seem to affect wars as much if at all more times than not now. Ive seen several times mage n rogue go to stun war m he just keeps walking. That is when hes not jumping over map to base and scoring :p

r u for real? i never killed a fully geared rogue with a fireball unless they r poor geared and not with full health.

[Tribalware]

I've been getting some great feedback as a mage player recently from well made up teams, usually 2 warriors and 2 rogues or 1 warrior and 3 rogues. Now the rogues who aren't intent on just soloing all over the map (which is a fair few of them) seem to quickly pick up on the fact that when grouped and facing another team my ability to refill their mana periodically becomes invaluable. So my kills still suck but I'm dying less and have found a real niche for myself in PvP encounters.

Essentially what I'm doing is allowing a rogue's killstreaks to continue indefinitely whilst providing modest stun support from behind, the rogues that have been willing to work with me say they find that their kills per game increase dramatically whilst their deaths have diminished. Now mages are still most definitely underpowered, we need a damage buff and our skill perks back please.

But I've been saying that all along, what I'd really like to see which would make a huge difference would be some breakdown of amount of hp/mana healed per game, perhaps even a support class section on the leaderboards. Anything to reward the efforts I go to to support a team of rogues in their endless slaughter, because at the moment I'm directly leading to or assisting heavily in a lot of kills and getting nothing to show for it.

It might be besides the point though, as people have been noting the development team seem to have gone silent and it doesn't look like PvP will be getting a fair rebalance anytime soon. A new expansion means more plat purchased, more money. So I guess that explains their priotities, but I'd really like to see something done to reassure the player base.

Personally? I don't think any class should be able to heal in PvP except the mage class, and I think some sort of piecemeal record of amount healed should be broken down player by player at the end of each game so that we aren't just bowing our heads and humbly allowing the other classes to rack up points that matter.

As others have stated, very few mages are left playing PvP, people are leaving the game and you are relegating an entire class to the dustbin. Throw us a bone.

[Energizeric]

I think there should just be a won/loss record. I tend to play the support mage role, and I find my teams win like 80% of the time because most other teams don't have a good support mage. So I would love to see a won/loss record added for CTF.

To avoid issues with people leaving games in the middle, you can work it like this:

1) If you play the whole game, then obviously you get either a win or a loss.

2) If you leave a game in the middle, then if your team wins you don't get credit for the win, but if your team loses then you get a loss, i.e. you must finish the game to get a win. This will discourage people from leaving games in the middle since there is always a chance you can come back and win.

3) If you join a game in the middle, then if your team wins you get a win, but if your team loses then you don't get a loss (since maybe you joined when your team was down 4-0). It will also encourage people to join games in the middle that have open slots since there would be no risk of doing so. So games won't fall apart in the middle because everyone leaves.

This will encourage team work and cause people to actually care about winning the game.

[Gassyllama]

Guys come on. PvP is fine. People are learning how to actually play their classes. And let's be honest here, there are 3 classes, one is bound not to be quite as good as the other two in PvP. There are still some very good mages in PvP, I am actually surprised there are not a bunch more. The skill sets for mages make them very competitive, I mean do you see the amount of stuns they can do? They are also invaluable in group battles. If anything Warriors are OP just because when used correctly they can demolish teams and come out of 1v3's alive. Rogue's are definitely not OP anymore. People need to stop complaining the game is unbalanced just because they get killed a lot. It takes experience to be good at something, go practice, or maybe PvP is just not for you.

[Vystirch]

Guys come on. PvP is fine. People are learning how to actually play their classes. And let's be honest here, there are 3 classes, one is bound not to be quite as good as the other two in PvP. There are still some very good mages in PvP, I am actually surprised there are not a bunch more. The skill sets for mages make them very competitive, I mean do you see the amount of stuns they can do? They are also invaluable in group battles. If anything Warriors are OP just because when used correctly they can demolish teams and come out of 1v3's alive. Rogue's are definitely not OP anymore. People need to stop complaining the game is unbalanced just because they get killed a lot. It takes experience to be good at something, go practice, or maybe PvP is just not for you.

Well said, everything u said is true.

[JuiceBox]

Well said, everything u said is true.

Says the rogue. And you are both wrong and very evidently never played a mage in CTF.

There's not just a few people who sees this glaring imbalance. And its frustrating to see people who is active in the forums easily dismiss our claims, and telling us how we should play.

If a class is OP, then the game is not balanced.

You are not even a mage so you don't see the frustrations in our class. Be a team player? I'm sorry, but out of all the classes warriors have the best skills to support a team. And even then they don't need anyone else but their class to do well in CTF.

And what support skills? The only support that anyone wants is our fireball knock back, and that too rogues and warriors want to get nerfed.
Our heal is a joke as it does not benefit anyone when we are one shorted before we can use it.

Our sets of stuns? What sets of stuns? Only 100% knock back is fire and a charged normal stun. All other skills randomly works.

Game is not balanced when we don't have the same opportunity as the other classes to flag or make PvP kills. And this is the same stats that all classes are scored on.

I have over 1000 kills, and I also have a fully decked warrior. Playing mage is playing on hard mode.

[Flameshot]

So i'm a level 8 mage, 397 kills, 60 deaths. Stun lock is the key to winning battles. Sometimes I miss time it as I'm learning and dealing with lag but when i get it right I'm good to go.

What i completely agree upon is the ice spell, so disappointing that it really doesn't do anything other than add damage. Wasted a respec to find that out.

Dev's please fix ice.

[Heiki]

Lvl to 21 first, the game changes a lot.

I agree with Tribalware as I play my warrior as somewhat of a support to rogues too, gave up on racking kills in. For this to be remotely satisfying though we need a leaderboard or a CTF match summary that shows a tad more than kills and deaths.

On a side note, Its a bit sad that 2 classes are relegated to support something as basic as a rogue. I'm gonna make a troll build with just aimed shot and the rest in passive, i'm sure ill still demolish people.

[Cashews]

Lvl to 21 first, the game changes a lot.

I agree with Tribalware as I play my warrior as somewhat of a support to rogues too, gave up on racking kills in. For this to be remotely satisfying though we need a leaderboard or a CTF match summary that shows a tad more than kills and deaths.

On a side note, Its a bit sad that 2 classes are relegated to support something as basic as a rogue. I'm gonna make a troll build with just aimed shot and the rest in passive, i'm sure ill still demolish people.

I've tried the build before and it doesn't work as well as you might think. The odds are you won't get that 1hit KO on your first shot and in the 2 seconds it takes to recharge, your pretty much dead.

[Heiki]

You sure?

Play with bow and during the recharge time you charge a bow shot for a stun. Im not sure which skill from the rogue set can save you from getting killed in 2 seconds.

[Cero]

Well said, everything u said is true.

Says the rogue. And you are both wrong and very evidently never played a mage in CTF.

There's not just a few people who sees this glaring imbalance. And its frustrating to see people who is active in the forums easily dismiss our claims, and telling us how we should play.

If a class is OP, then the game is not balanced.

You are not even a mage so you don't see the frustrations in our class. Be a team player? I'm sorry, but out of all the classes warriors have the best skills to support a team. And even then they don't need anyone else but their class to do well in CTF.

And what support skills? The only support that anyone wants is our fireball knock back, and that too rogues and warriors want to get nerfed.
Our heal is a joke as it does not benefit anyone when we are one shorted before we can use it.

Our sets of stuns? What sets of stuns? Only 100% knock back is fire and a charged normal stun. All other skills randomly works.

Game is not balanced when we don't have the same opportunity as the other classes to flag or make PvP kills. And this is the same stats that all classes are scored on.

I have over 1000 kills, and I also have a fully decked warrior. Playing mage is playing on hard mode.

actauly
the flag dmg is set by class now. so carrying the flag is balanced.

i play both mage and warrior.
surely rogues/warrior can 1-2/5hits mages but a decent mage can bring down any class 1vs1 by doing stunlock. its just that mage class needs to do more work(kite) to win.

[JuiceBox]

actauly
the flag dmg is set by class now. so carrying the flag is balanced.

i play both mage and warrior.
surely rogues/warrior can 1-2/5hits mages but a decent mage can bring down any class 1vs1 by doing stunlock. its just that mage class needs to do more work(kite) to win.

I agree as a Mage we can bring down any class, but it does need a lot more work. Every class can chain stun so that's not a Mage class exclusive.

Warriors have 3 heals.

Horn of renew which also group shields and can fully heal an entire group.
Juggernaut and vengeance both heal for roughly 500 health each.
They also have skyward smash that sends them flying across the room.
Or axe throw which can pull you from across the room.
Whirlwind that does aoe melee dmg with a range of 6m that also roots.

Don't forget all they need to do is stack str for more power and over 3000hp

I also play a warrior and there is no balance between those two classes.

[Cero]

Juggernaut(without autoheal upgrade) and vengefull blood actualy doesnt heal. what the skill does is boosting health(juggernaut) and +25/50Str(vengefull) thus warrior is get a +500hp. HP will return once buff wears off.

[JuiceBox]

Juggernaut(without autoheal upgrade) and vengefull blood actualy doesnt heal. what the skill does is boosting health(juggernaut) and +25/50Str(vengefull) thus warrior is get a +500hp. HP will return once buff wears off.

I understand how what the description says and how you get the health.

Adding 500 health to what you don't already have is a heal.

When you charge those skills you actually see +500hp in green and there is an increase of health in your health bar. Not only that you also get significant boosts in damage reduction, max health, criticals, and vengeful also charges your mana in full.

Cool down is very short too, that you can use those skills multiple times during a skirmish.

[Xman]

The topic is standing at page 27 for several days:). It's seem people are tired of screaming about how warriors are incredible overpowered and how mages are underpowered. And yet we still haven't really seen any change or respond from the Dev team. Please, Sam, or just anyone in Dev team, please just tell us that you are reading this topic, and we are not try to write feedback that no one care about:(

Anyone plz tell me is there any change with time shift and Frost bolt effect? I had to respec before update so I don't know if these skills can root or freeze People in PvP? or just in PvE?

[Ladycandyheal]

Sam has said tonight, that those Sorcerer skills are PVE fixes, not PVP

[warbluefish]

charged frost does the slow down. never seen freeze though.

[Xman]

I saw Freeze, 2 times in my 1000 kills, so you have 0,2% freeze maybe...

[Johnaditya]

I'm a lvl 20 mage and game is very unbalanced only rogues rule there, 2 or 3 shot from rogue and im dead, U can like add something llike pvp weapons (other weapons can't be used in pvp but only pvp weapons), pvp helmet and armor( no other helmet or armor can be used but only pvp helmet and armor), pvp jewelary set( no other rings or amulets can be used but only pvp amulets and rings), and pvp pets

[Aithusa]

Fighter heal is too strong. My mage is all intelligence with best gear and it takes every ridiculous effort plus luck to kill a good fighter who has already been damaged! Their range on everything needs to be decreased or mage attack range and stun should be increased significantly, but that would just totally unbalance everything.
I do feel rogues are OP being able to repetitively 1 or 2 hit me, but i can kill them of i stun and don't miss ANYTHING. If my second hit misses I'm dead.

Ive seen both rogue and fighter make really buff hard to kill flag grabbers, but this is impossible with mage. Our heal is crap. Sure we can restore mana, but i find myself begging fighters for their amazing heal. Even with balanced or high HP stats, I die insanely easy to either fighter or rogue, so i go all intell because there's really no point putting anything into str when it'll only make the difference between being one or 2 hitted.

In summary, nerf fighter damage and heal. Increase mage heal by at least x2 and have it add significantly more over time to self or remove cooldown. I dont understand how rogues get better heal skill than mage. That is just ridiculous. Even as pure intell, heal is pretty much useless because ill be dead anyways after my invulnerability wears off.

[Aithusa]

As far as game dynamics go, teams should either be randomized or there should be some way of stalling a start until it is 5v5, the game starts at 3v5 and that is just stupid. I think max lvl pvp 21 should be restricted to 21 only seeing as ppl at this level usually have their character tricked out, as opposed to a potential newer player at 19 or 20 with not so optimal gear.
Skills that bypass flag debuff should be nerfed or the flag debuff should be removed entirely. Mage skill does not work to imcrease speed with flag, but fighterz and rogues can zip across the screen and through walls, it's ridiculous.

[warbluefish]

As far as game dynamics go, teams should either be randomized or there should be some way of stalling a start until it is 5v5, the game starts at 3v5 and that is just stupid. I think max lvl pvp 21 should be restricted to 21 only seeing as ppl at this level usually have their character tricked out, as opposed to a potential newer player at 19 or 20 with not so optimal gear.
Skills that bypass flag debuff should be nerfed or the flag debuff should be removed entirely. Mage skill does not work to imcrease speed with flag, but fighterz and rogues can zip across the screen and through walls, it's ridiculous.

Total agree with the flag thing. its unfair that warrior and rogue could carry the flag much faster around bcos their skills. warrior has the speed and health . rogue has the speed. mages has nothing. u even can see some warriors carrys flag go around killing others. do u see any mage does that?

[Aithusa]

Total agree with the flag thing. its unfair that warrior and rogue could carry the flag much faster around bcos their skills. warrior has the speed and health . rogue has the speed. mages has nothing. u even can see some warriors carrys flag go around killing others. do u see any mage does that?

LOL mages rarely carry flag because most go all out nuke or disable. Cannot really live beyond 2 second shield timer, especially vs rogue. In maxed out best gear, fighter beats all and some 2vs1. I cannot believe the range on fighter attacks i die offscreen so much to that stupid going glitchy crap all the time. If i get hooked im dead. It's ridiculous.

[Aithusa]

Another thing.... Charging the shield for knoclback almost always misses, it should really be 100% and do some insane knockback or stun for it to be any use at all.
I tried support build today... It's so lame. Yay i can put skill points into worst ability just so rogue ally can be nonstop kill machines. At least they follow me now lol. Btw curse is useless, just remove it from game.

[warbluefish]

There r a few main issues in pvp. att range. one shot kill. heal. stun. dmg and mana. ability to run.

first. Attack range. it includes normal attack range and skill attack range.

Normal attack range.

The normal attack range i feel that all class r the same. maybe the locking range warrior is shorter. not sure about it. What makes different is the health. as the dmg gap is not that significant between classes. Rogue and mage r much easier to b killed. the advangtage for mage and rogue is they have stun with the charged normal attack. 50%.

Skill attack range.

I think the aimed shot has the longest attack range in all classes skills. and its deadly. Mages fireball has the same range as other class skills. when it explode it sames long. but itneed to reach the player to explode. and that range is much shorter than aimed shot. warriors skyward smash feels also longer than the fireball. and the windmill attack range need to b nerfed. bcos its a so powerful skill. high dmg with snare with big att range. much superior skill than mages fireball. as fireball only hit once with 50% of stun. not sure about rogues piercer. att range. at least ppl have a chance to get out of it.

One shot kill.

The most time we r talking about rogues one shot kill. Warriors complaining about it. so u should know how mages feels about it. but iits fair to rogue. they mean to b high dmg. but when it hit chance r too high. it just takes a lot fun out of game. Warriors windmill couod b in this categary as well. it could kill any mage and rogue in one hit. it hits 3-5times? i mean it kills in one skill. but mages dont have that kind of skills. charged lighting maybe one. crit say 15%. in pvp its far lower than that. and it wont kill any full gear rogue. dont even dream about warriors.


Heal

Everyone knows warrior has much better heal than others. we think this way. one warriors heal can take 5 more hits. one mages heal can take most 2 more hit. rogue seems has the worst heal skill. but good rogue can through heal pack just under their body dont need to go around to collect. iit just need more practice.


Stun

Warrior has two stun skills skyward smash. and the chain axe. sry too lazy to go back check the exect name. and both r deadly to rogue and mages. we just talking about how many time we being stuned. never talk about the impact. for mage and rogue being stuned by warrior. it just means one thing death. if a warrior stuned by a rogue is almost the same. but a worrior is stuned by a mage that another story. first the windmill can bounce off any mages stun skills. and also it takes at least 5 stun to kill a warrior based on not made any mistakes. once single mistake the mage will die. the stun between mage and rogue r more even. who be stuned first who says bye bye.

Damage.

Rogue suppose has the highest dmg. but warrior suppose has the lowest. it seems the case but its not showing at lv21. Warrior has the lowest DPS. but not the dmg. as in pvp every fight finishes in about 5 seconds. not including mage v warrior long stun run game. DPS is not important. as warrior has simular dmg with other class and they have tons more armor and health. this how the fight is not balanced. specially to mage as low crit low skill dmg.


Mana

Mages has the most mana compare to others. but the usage r high as well. Warrior has the best mana storage in the game. their mana not much as mages but the usage r much lower. dont need much mana to kill. the regeneration of mana is enough for them for the full game. Rogue has the lowest mana. they go in to kill and pull out . if a rogue with high dmg high crit and high mana? it just a killing machine noone can stop it.

Ability to run.

as when u see three of enemies in front of u . u wanna to escape. warrior has the skyward smash. rogue has the zip thing. mage only has the charged storm. the mage will long dead before finish the charge. smashed the skyward or shot dead by aimed shot.


STS have done a good job on pvp. but it makes me feel pvp is for warrior and rogue. mages have been left out a bit. not good on killing . cant carry the flag. support the team? only the stun does that. and it become the easy target to any other class.

[Heiki]

Try skyward to escape a mob, you'll jump right into it. LOL

Mages don't have escape tools because they have range crowd control skills. If you're worried about mana, spec heal advantage to replenish mana and get these little blue crosses. Mage damage is respectable. You mention storm which makes me think maybe you're just not specked for pvp? Try fireball, lightning, shield, heal and profit.

[warbluefish]

[QUOTE=Heiki;955220]Try skyward to escape a mob, you'll jump right into it. LOL

Mages don't have escape tools because they have range crowd control skills. If you're worried about mana, spec heal advantage to replenish mana and get these little blue crosses. Mage damage is respectable. You mention storm which makes me think maybe you're just not specked for pvp? Try fireball, lightning, shield, heal and profit.[/QUOTE/]


just talking about it in general thx for the advice. u mean the mana heal. its same as the health heal. what can i say about it? charged fireball? is it a reallg crowd control skill? suppose warrior does that kind of work.

abilty to run is talking about u r not within any ppls att range. if u r in the att range of course u jump into the crowd. it also not only for escape it works for carrying the flag too.

[uzidredar]

2 weeks in and no fixes for the uselessness of Mages. I am avoiding pvp like the plague and stashing coins for the next expansion as I am hoping that's when some tweaks will be made.

[Evilgoat]

I get killed with 1 aimed shot everytime....
Unlucky u haha.. Takes 3 rougues to take me down

[Snalin]

Unlucky u haha.. Takes 3 rougues to take me down

Takes 1 rougues to take me down

[linuxjedi]

The devs probly play rogues thats why they're keeping pvp so unbalanced for so long. Or at least I hope that's the case and not something else - stupidity.

That said, I cant help but to wonder why the devs cant at least address the points of imbalances made all over this forum. People here are giving them good feedback, never mind your freaking pay checks, and they dont think the comments here warrant at least 1 post of feedback? When the devs grow a spine and maybe an ounce of appreciation for this community that pays their bills and makes some reasonable changes or even makes a reply, I wont waste my time and money on this game any further. Nor will I suggest it to any of the millions of friends I have with smart phones / tablets.

Matter of fact, the dev team has displayed such a gross level of incompetence that I don't care what they do from this point forward. They have no business making an mmo, much less making money off one. Good luck, you're going to need it.

[Heiki]

PvP hasn't been out for a month and you already go batsht crazy? Even the arena title says it's still in a trial phase. If you don't enjoy PvP at the moemetn then don't PvP!

Devs probably don't have the time to play their game too much so there is little chance they would skewer the game's odds in favor of rogues like you so puerily think so.

I'm glad the devs are taking their time with balancing so they avoid any kneejerk reaction. Game is not far from being balanced. Considering the quality and fun factor of this game, I wouldn't say the devs are incompetent. Yes its not as deep as O&C but there is potential to add some content as they cash in on plat spendings to invest on development.

[Hroovitnir]

Can Spacetime Studios be ANY WORSE at making PvP ANYTHING ? CTF is the STUPIDEST instance EVER for PvE Heros! Kills arent counted right, DMG BASED NOT KILL SHOT!, classes are op. It's absurd and they should be spending all their time fixing it instead of worrying about lame updates. I have 4.3k hp buffed and almost 1k armor and I got 1 shot today by a rouge, LULZ, NO CLASS should be able to take away 4.3khp in one hit. STOP FU***** Off STS and fix this GARBAGE!

I can't even tell you how many BADDIES I see playing with decent K/D ratios because the swoop in after dieing 8 times in a fight to take the last hit while I'm still standing there taken dmg and giving it out, like wtf. Thanks STS for maknig my contributions to the fight,e.g. they wouldn't exist without a warrior, count for nothing. Make the FU***** kills count by DAMAGE DONE not same lame a** kid baddie who gets lucky and gets the last hit in. LULZ @ knowing NOTHING of MMO mechanics and PvP, almost all MMOs are DMG based for kill counts, cuz we all know baddies get lucky, so stop helping the terribaddies look good and fix this so good players get their dues!

Blah, blah, blah...this wasn't meant to be negative. Just me laying out the realistic flaws and what people are REALLY thinking. I know for a fact I'm not alone on this. Please noone get their feelings hurt. ;)
Reason for Editing: Sam says I need to be nice.

[Heiki]

It still looks like a nerdrage :(

I agree on the kill counting though. Not because of baddies because, let's face it, sometimes luck swings your way and you also skysmash onto a half dead mage and splatter little blue brain debris on the walls. I'd like CTF to count damage done, taken and healing done which would highlight MVPs easier than allowing rogues to faceroll with aimed shot in every skillslot.

[Hroovitnir]

It still looks like a nerdrage :(

I agree on the kill counting though. Not because of baddies because, let's face it, sometimes luck swings your way and you also skysmash onto a half dead mage and splatter little blue brain debris on the walls. I'd like CTF to count damage done, taken and healing done which would highlight MVPs easier than allowing rogues to faceroll with aimed shot in every skillslot.

Well geared tanks don't get lucky. With 4.3k hp and 300+ STR I'm doing people 250-300dmg a hit or so without a crit. I do MOST of the dmg and some rouge or mage gets lucky with a kill shot, its absurd when I'm the one who is actually the good player, that's all I'm saying.

[Heiki]

Get off your high horses, you're not the best player out there all the time. And again, 4.3k is during the 15 seconds Juggernaut last. Health doesnt mean shht if your attack is so low you cant actually finish anyone off before their team comes to support them.

I get similar damage figures as yours. You should play a rogue to get a feel for what kind of damage they can actually put out. 2k-2.5k crits are not uncommon so a 700-800 crit from your war (which is probably the highest you'll ever see) is really not a lot in the grand scheme of things.

[Hroovitnir]

Of course not, but mind you pretty much noone has 4.3k hp, I'll submit an SS if needed and unless someone has the same build I;m using they wont ever see 4.3 or the 4.5k I'll have when done. And Rouges are SUPER OP right now, I got hit for 4k yesterday, lulz. Juggs alone isn't giving me my 4.3k+ hp most get 4k or so with Juggs. But I digress, you are spot on with the damage figures, I do crit for around 800ish, I have seen 1k before. Again, because of my uncommon build. Yes, warriors don't put out enough DPS necessarily, but a good cycle will put the deeps where it needs to be. Which is why kill counts should be counted by damage done and not last hit taken, again I digress. PvP needs much work and I have been assured it will be receiving it. So I shall wait and see and only add constructive criticism from now on.

[Heiki]

Again, no big secret to building a war and it's quite straightforward to gear as well. If you have 300 str then anyone with 300 str can match your HP values under juggernaut.

Like you kindly offer, I'd like to see a screenshot where you have 4300 HP, over 1000 armor and still be capable of critting for 1000.

[Hroovitnir]

I have over 300 STR by a bit. And once I am done building my toon this week or next, I will submit you an SS with me with 4.5k HP. The crit thing is, let be honest, to hard to do. I cant be fighting see a little number pop up hit home button + camera button and take a pic all without dieing or even fast enough before it went away, lol. So you'll just have to take my word for it when you see my stats, haha. But yes no problem submitting one.

But what I wont do, is share my build, lol. Hence why I will have a vanity on in the SS.

[linuxjedi]

Fact is the devs constantly work on this project, but they've neglected to read a single page of this thread or they're utterly stupid. Sadly I suspect a bit of both. 28 pages of the same complaints, and they've not done anything to fix it.

[gundamsone]

Fact is the devs constantly work on this project, but they've neglected to read a single page of this thread or they're utterly stupid. Sadly I suspect a bit of both. 28 pages of the same complaints, and they've not done anything to fix it.

Are you a big plat spender and a valuable customer? Or are you one of those free players than demand everything be done and fixed as soon as problems arise?

Seriously give STS some time, on top of the upcoming expansion and other things, i'm sure they're well aware of all your concerns and they will obviously pick the best fix that will cator to the majority.

[linuxjedi]

Are you a big plat spender and a valuable customer? Or are you one of those free players than demand everything be done and fixed as soon as problems arise?

Seriously give STS some time, on top of the upcoming expansion and other things, i'm sure they're well aware of all your concerns and they will obviously pick the best fix that will cator to the majority.

Wtf does my exspendatures have to do with a braindead dev team that wont ljsten to their community? You're about as retarded as they are.

[Energizeric]

Wtf does my exspendatures have to do with a braindead dev team that wont ljsten to their community? You're about as retarded as they are.

Apparently you are under the impression that developing a game is something that is done in a few hours. It is NOT. Any changes they make is going to take weeks. So trust me, they are indeed listening. You just have no patience. Perhaps you should not play AL for a few months. Then when you come back I'm sure you will see some of the changes you seek.

[gundamsone]

Apparently you are under the impression that developing a game is something that is done in a few hours. It is NOT. Any changes they make is going to take weeks. So trust me, they are indeed listening. You just have no patience. Perhaps you should not play AL for a few months. Then when you come back I'm sure you will see some of the changes you seek.

He is under the impression that bugs and fixes can be fixed in a snap.
If you have any basic knowledge of computer coding, even the simplest bug requires extensive testing and can take along time to fix.

He is probably also under the impression that STS is some major gaming corp (like Blizzard) that can tweak things within a few days.
If you want them to tweak things or release faster content then I suggest you and your friends to purchase more plat and support them. That way they might be able to higher more staff to quickly meet player demands.

And i'd like to point out that your opinions or a few pages of the same opinion doesn't generally reflect the public's opinion.

[linuxjedi]

He is under the impression that bugs and fixes can be fixed in a snap.
If you have any basic knowledge of computer coding, even the simplest bug requires extensive testing and can take along time to fix.

They can be fixed in a snap. I rewrote gentoo's init.rc changing maybe 50 lines of code and tested it in about 1 hour, it was sent upstream and stuck in repository about 20 minutes after that. This is one of the largest software projects in the world and a file that affects a computers ability to boot. Sorry I'm only fluent in c99 sed bash python clisp sh and awk so my knowledge of coding and fixing bugs may not be as well as yours.

[frieke]

Right, so not sure if this is appropriate place but it isabout an imbalance in pvp but has to do with levels.
So for at least the third time, and about the fourth seeing one player inparticular, ive been on my level 13 rogue and lvl 21s join game (and 18-19s). How is it possible level 12-16 could defeat a 21? Ofc if the 21 was any sort of player, i assume hed be playing other 21s but thats besides the point.
Yes,i have screenies...but is it really worth bringing it to sts attention? Im sure others already have.
Anywho, WHATS UP WITH LEVEL BALANCE STS? And what are your guys' thoughts on this?

[frieke]

I think there should just be a won/loss record. I tend to play the support mage role, and I find my teams win like 80% of the time because most other teams don't have a good support mage. So I would love to see a won/loss record added for CTF.

To avoid issues with people leaving games in the middle, you can work it like this:

1) If you play the whole game, then obviously you get either a win or a loss.

2) If you leave a game in the middle, then if your team wins you don't get credit for the win, but if your team loses then you get a loss, i.e. you must finish the game to get a win. This will discourage people from leaving games in the middle since there is always a chance you can come back and win.

3) If you join a game in the middle, then if your team wins you get a win, but if your team loses then you don't get a loss (since maybe you joined when your team was down 4-0). It will also encourage people to join games in the middle that have open slots since there would be no risk of doing so. So games won't fall apart in the middle because everyone leaves.

This will encourage team work and cause people to actually care about winning the game.

Hmm...some nice suggestions.
I also agree we need to have some sort of support award/achvmnt? Something because good support is part of the game regardless if it comes from heals n stuns from another or dmg done to opponents before a kill. The last shot gets the killis bit too simplistic and hopefully they will fix this in the future. Pending they ever read the comments and suggestions. Oh and sts, please dont make us pay plat for pvp buff upgrades :p

[ruddml1]

The Warrior's heal is better than the Sorcerer's heal
Rogue's power better than the Sorcerer
If so, What are the advantages of the Sorcerer.
Sorcerer of heal should make better now
and now Firebolt only shoot straight
It is unfair
Turn around and should be able to shoot
and Above all, warriors need to downgrade
because Warriors do not die.

[KeepCloser]

Never, in any online game warriors in heavy armor are not treated better than doctors in a robe! This imbalance of the classes. He who wears the robe has a weak defense, but he heals himself and others. The one who wears heavy armor, can not be treated at all! Please remove the treatment of tanks or reduce it to 10.

[Heiki]

Ok but then please make us feel like we are wearing heavy armor instead of wet cardboard.

Never, in any online game warriors in heavy armor are 2 shotted by arrows.

[warbluefish]

Haha. refer to the above commons.

Warriors heals r too good.

Rogue DMG r too high.

Soc r the worst in anything.

[warbluefish]

Socs r not that bad. But if a soc wanna survive in pvp. it must have shield and heal. also need fireball to stun. then just one optional skill left. lighting r the most popular one. But its still not good enough to taking down a well skilled rogue. dont even think of a good worrior.

[Genuinous]

Regarding the latest tweak in pvp: All healing and survival skills are down. And down badly I mean. Even though I put up my shield with my mage, I just get mowed down. And I mean badly beaten. Shield is now only good for the 2 sec and 500 hp boost. Which is laughable on a mage that has 540 armor and 1600 hp. Yes I could tweak my mage to have more hp, yet the lack of armor and the amount of damage it takes is just unbalanced. I know the changes have been made to heal packs (less hp) and invincibility of warriors. Yet I feel that mages took an especially hard hit, which for a fragile class is quite bad.

Let me give an example. A rogue crits at me 1k, which is not unusual or outrageous at all. Then I take 700 dmg with my shield up! Which already brought me down to half of my life... One more hit, let's say 1100 (not unheard of to have 2 crits in a row, now is it?) then I only get 200 dmg reduced, 900 dmg taken and I'm dead. 2 shotted with my shield up. It's better than being 1 shotted (happens all the time, when shield is not available), but it's still super weak.

It's not only about rogues dmg, a warrior with vengeful+passive str can easily stun me (not even having to charge? you kidding me?) then apply windmill treatment (which slows me down way too long imo) and then kill me with ease cos of the high dmg output, shield or no shield.

Please please please reconsider such a serious nerfing of shields. It has been nerfed in the previous upgrade and it has been nerfed yet again. This has made the class which is the easiest to kill, even weaker...

[warbluefish]

What can i say. Mage is a class that stuck in the middle. no high armor no high DMG. pl suffer..........

[Genuinous]

In addition to my previous post: Mages need more armor! Now more than ever since shield has been nerfed again...

rogues 1 shot mages
charged fireball + lighting (letting dot work) got me to 30%
vengeful blood + skyward + windmill combo kills me

1800 hp, 540 armor... After this idk what to say but ask why was shield nerfed? I just cant understand tbh...

[warbluefish]

suffer!!!!!!!

[Cero]

In addition to my previous post: Mages need more armor! Now more than ever since shield has been nerfed again...

rogues 1 shot mages
charged fireball + lighting (letting dot work) got me to 30%
vengeful blood + skyward + windmill combo kills me

1800 hp, 540 armor... After this idk what to say but ask why was shield nerfed? I just cant understand tbh...


iddnt know any announcement of shield being nerfed.
what did they do to the shield?

[Genuinous]

iddnt know any announcement of shield being nerfed.
what did they do to the shield?

They didnt announce but its noticable. Shield takes less dmg so its over faster. Also while having shield up i take more dmg than before...

[Shun]

Admin!!! is there a BUG on the warrior skills? whats the highest Critical damage a warrior can do? coz i saw some1 having a 1400+ critical damage... is that even possible?

[Mmmdatass]

Hi, new to forums, didn't read much of the above statements but here goes my own opinions. I have played all classes in PvP. Instead of looking at each individual class, I would rather look at the different stages of CTF PvP.
1V1 - (1) Warriors or Rogues, (3) Mages - Fights between warriors and rogues can go either way and depend totally upon the builds and skill uses. I only will 1V1 a warrior on my rogue if I land a critical shot with my aimed or piercer skill as that can take up to 3/4 to 1/2 of their health away. Timing is everything with rogues while not really on warriors. Maybe skill progression for warriors. I usually hold my current attack when a warrior has invincibility for the short time. Mages can be effective but I will win 19 out of 20 times on rogue and 15-20 times on warrior. They just lack the huge damage and health but with the right skill combos they can absolutely own me.

Group - (1) Warriors, (2) Mages, (3) Rogues - Warriors are the biggest component of group fights because they are the ones who can actually take the damage. And their windmill slaughters any rogues in that area. Mages have great aoe skills and stun or freeze skills. Their heal is very important for especially rogues since is refills their low health and the fact that rogues go through mana generally very quick. Rogues have a short period where they burst huge damage with skills but then run out of mana. If they are in the middle, they are generally in trouble. A bow is very low DPS compared to daggers and not that effective except for stuns.

Flag Carrying - (1) Warriors, (2) Rogues or Mages - Both warriors and mages lose a point because speed abilities don't apply while the flag is in possession. These are the only two classes with this spell. I say warriors are first because they can 1 - Jump away with skyward as long as there are no enemies in the area, 2 - Heal themselves with vengeful (strength) and HoR, 3 - Be invincible for a small amount of time with HoR, 4 - Slow or stun enemies chasing with windmill snare and skyward. Mages pretty much take two skills to the warriors HoR effect (Lifegiver and shield). They can stun and slow targets more effectively than warriors though but dont have a leap skill which helps a lot. Rogues pierce is much more effective than warriors skyward but they have no opportunity to receive more mana. They can use bow for long range stun which works well but it is not as effective as some of the other classes stun skills. They can use trap but few do. Trap is a great flag carrying skill though. The medpacks I feel are too much of a pain to cast and go and get and sometimes it takes a second or two to actually pick them up, self heal perk works but is only 200 or so health. I feel that flag carrying is probably the most balanced aspect of CTF.

These are my own opinions and are based on my own experiences. They obviously do not always apply and there are so many exceptions.

[Samhayne]

Closing this thread and redirecting to the latest threads.

Thanks for your feedback!