Official PvP Feedback Thread: Class Balance

[Samhayne]

23141

Please use this thread to discuss balance between the Rogue, Warrior and Sorcerer in PvP combat.

Please only post after you have played some PvP. Also, please keep the feedback constructive. Thank you!

[DEFENESTRATION]

All i know is I'm a level 17 rogue and I just slaughtered in PVP going 11-3. I don't even have min-maxed awesome expensive stuff like most people. Just lvl 15 pink winter set. Taking 2 warriors at once n such with aimed shot and shadow pierce w/ razor shield... Didn't even use my shadow veil.

[Azasheora]

Holey moley, pvp is way unbalanced. Warriors are on another level. I have mainly lvl 21 legendary gear and I don't stand a chance. It's very frustrating. Not much strategy too because the hits are so hard you die very quickly. I feel like I'm playing counterstrike.

[Matutd]

#1 pet peeve: can't rotate camera. It's unreal how often I get jumped by 3-4 people who I don't see until I'm already dead. It didntb bother me in pve, but in PvP it is vital.

[Bless]

#1 pet peeve: can't rotate camera. It's unreal how often I get jumped by 3-4 people who I don't see until I'm already dead. It didntb bother me in pve, but in PvP it is vital. second that! I got assassinated by mages .-.

[Hadec]

fix camera. nerf rogues too much damage...mages suck a bit xD

[Vystirch]

Mages fire ball is a has a bit long of a stun time. Warriors have good life and defense, but bad attacks(as it should be). But when a large group of warriors gets together with the heal buff with invincible shield it is unfair. They are the only things I noticed so far.

[Bless]

L16 ctf feedback on rogues~

Rogues have an absolutely horrible amount mana. My mana is 385, most rogues have under that. Now, the thing is that we rogues can't fully fight/ defend flag because by the time we kill ONE person, we lose all mana and then were dead. We can't even last 3 fights...and don't get me started on mana regen, about 1/sec...

Suggestion: bump up mana and mana regen on L16 gear.

[Lalarie]

I get killed with 1 aimed shot everytime....

[Arcana]

man,when is the last time u get kill 1 shot?it just haappen to me with my mage
PS: can dev give us free respec even its only once because my build is for pve and now when going pvp,i frustated lol

[SuRfY]

L16 ctf feedback on rogues~

Rogues have an absolutely horrible amount mana. My mana is 385, most rogues have under that. Now, the thing is that we rogues can't fully fight/ defend flag because by the time we kill ONE person, we lose all mana and then were dead. We can't even last 3 fights...and don't get me started on mana regen, about 1/sec...

Suggestion: bump up mana and mana regen on L16 gear.

I saw a level 21 rogue and the mana was like 165. I guess can't have the best of two worlds like warrior and mage. Please nerf mage and warrior. LOL.

[eugene9707]

We can't even last 3 fights....
3 fights ....
i probably can't even last 1/5 of a fight, walk up , see's a rogue, attack 1-3 times, dies.... end of story. xD
ps im a mage

[Serancha]

I think pets should definitely be included in this. It takes a lot of the interest out of the whole thing when they are taken away.

For instance, right now it just comes down to brute force, whereas if people have the option to use pets, it opens up the whole range of debate on which abilities and assets would be most beneficial to them in this situation. People would be more involved in trying out different things and thinking about techniques and pet usage, rather than just who can hit the hardest the fastest.

[Jcyee]

#1 pet peeve: can't rotate camera. It's unreal how often I get jumped by 3-4 people who I don't see until I'm already dead. It didntb bother me in pve, but in PvP it is vital.

Exactly...

On another note, from the few matches that I've played, warriors seem to be relatively balanced. Rogues kinda OP dealing so much damage. Sorcerers seem to be pretty vulnerable at the moment

[shayen]

Awesome Update., But needs improvement though.

No doubt Rogues will conquer the kills on leaderboards.

anyways its still on beta right?? let's just enjoy it for a while.

[nicoB]

Warriors and rogues can swing there swords from bow range and deal damage lol .its not the. conection becuse my ping was green :)

[nicoB]

Oh ya I'm a rogue :)

[Lady_Pebbles]

Posted this in the other thread but seems like it fits better here...



Players can equip a pet and enter a match with the pet still on & the ability to use the pet as well as recieving the stat benefits.

The Mage class has a huge disadvantage; i.e. Without the shield skill we get one shot killed at full health. The shield's sub-skill for additional time it lasts does not help (even with the sub-skill to be able to take more dmg). Major tweaks need to be done for this class's skills to become effective, especially the AOEs.

Warriors Vengance muat be nerfed. They are way too OP. Literally one shot kills. Rogue's Piercer skill and Smoke must be nerfed. Both one shot kills also.

Overall, Im loving the layout. Loving the FFA style. Wish the flags were actual flags and not hovering colored balls. Wish we can see the map better when fully oppect. And wish we could view enemy locations near us on the map az well.

[Serancha]

Actually the pet won't fight for you when you sneak it in the back door, they just follow you around. Whether or not the stat benefits are active, I don't know. I don't think so from the amount my rogue died ;) They show up on your ID, but the devs posted that they would be disabled.

This being said, when there are pets in the arena, it doesn't make it seem any more cluttered than without, which I understand was the main concern.

On warrior, running around smushing mages is like a rousing game of whop-a-mole - fun for the warrior, but I imagine not so much for the mole, I mean mage. I haven't tried sorcerer in PVP yet at this point. My rogue manages to kill quite a bit, but also seems to die over and over and over, so I just find myself sticking to warrior for this game.

[Duflie]

Screw rogues' aim shot skill. It's back to 1 sec pvp again, and it takes all the fun out of pvp. Rogue 1 shot = nerf

[Jimmeh]

Rogues are overpowered.

Sorcs are too weak. To be honest, usually when a class is incredibly weak they do more damage.

However, with the best gear available I'm rocking... oh wait, no I'm not. I only rock when I team with rogues.

It's just a team roulette when you play a sorc. Skill means nothing.


Looks like rogues are getting kills about 5-6x more often than everybody else.


I suggest ... adding a class distinction on the PvP leaderboards? Will make it VERY obvious.

[mingmingloo]

a very big disadvantage for us mages!!! hope they can retweak it immediately. rogues are too powerful. can't even kill one even with full health =( damn.

[Ladycandyheal]

Actually the pet won't fight for you when you sneak it in the back door, they just follow you around. Whether or not the stat benefits are active, I don't know. I don't think so from the amount my rogue died ;) They show up on your ID, but the devs posted that they would be disabled.

This being said, when there are pets in the arena, it doesn't make it seem any more cluttered than without, which I understand was the main concern.

On warrior, running around smushing mages is like a rousing game of whop-a-mole - fun for the warrior, but I imagine not so much for the mole, I mean mage. I haven't tried sorcerer in PVP yet at this point. My rogue manages to kill quite a bit, but also seems to die over and over and over, so I just find myself sticking to warrior for this game.

Agreed on the pets not seemingly making any noticeable clutter although, their abilities are disabled right? From what I've seen of pets in CTF, they were cute running about and I look forward to them in actual unbugged PVP in the future as I said earlier.

I also find myself going back to my warrior rather than my Mage in CTF. Please tweak the mages for PVP so they can actually survive longer instead of dying in 1 sec from a rogue's bow.

Heck my warrior dies from a rogue who has a legendary weapon. :)

[wowdah]

Overall I like the idea. I think rogues should have something to make them balanced because they pretty much have no healing. Also please make it so you get something for winning. Otherwise people just play, and when they get e achievements and such there is no point on playing it

[storrm]

i played about 2h and really impressed that it works pretty well without lag.

its cool! but pretty unbalanced.

i think

the aimed shot gives too much crit buff (with stacking) and dmg so must be nerfed.
mages effect like stun or freeze must be more effective for their survivality (or need more frequent heal) or just need more dmg ( charged firea ball deal just same dmg with whirlwind daam...)
warriors need to lose some def
(almost immortal with their own heal and buff)

sorry that my opinion is biased to mage
( just because my main is mage o.o)
thank you for reading have a nice day guys :)

[thekdub]

Overall I like the idea. I think rogues should have something to make them balanced because they pretty much have no healing. Also please make it so you get something for winning. Otherwise people just play, and when they get e achievements and such there is no point on playing it

Agree very strongly with a reward for winning. The whole system is meaningless without making winning a priority.

[nicoB]

Ive been playing pvp for hours and quite honestly i have nothing to complain about. All the mages complaining about othe classes needing a nerf just need to get a strategy together. Your stun laat long enough to kill a rogue before it wears off ive played plenty of mages that put a strategy together and straigh own pvp match. you have the best heal skill giving health and mana. you do more dmg and have a lot of range. instead of complaining in the forums think things through get a plan like all the other good mages ive fough. the warriors own like there supposed to, its not impossible to take them down either. Rogues just slaughter each other. i dont have to complain about except for people hising pets under their shirts and sneaking in with them

[Mattygspot]

Pvp is pretty good but I think there is room for improvement. I dont like that time spell for mage doesnt root enemies, effectively making it useless. Same as wind and knockback. I find pvp is also unbalanced as a rogues can kill 1800 hp in 2 hits with the right spell. It just seems odd that certain advantages are removed in an effort to balance the character abilities when it does the exact opposite. I dont think spells should be changed, leaving them will add different elements of stratagy and allow most players to keep there player mostly the same, and make minor tweaks instead. If the spells are changed in pvp at least give us a cheaper respec for skills only.

What about guild wars and leagues? Right now it is very hard to coordinate guild wars, and as a result no leagues can be formed. I would also like to see more health and mana around the map. Also less damage for the one flagging.

Anyway right now its good for a test, but I hope big changes are in store.

-Mattygspot

[yuriramos]

The aimed shot is so overpowered. One shot and mages get 75 % to instant kill damage.ridiculous.and im maxed out on armor.

[Rasittt]

As a warrior with 909 armor and 135 dps without the pet, good rogues can usually kill me 1v1..their dps is just way too high and they rule the pvp, period.

[Tilax]

The fact that when I take on 1-2 warriors alone and no ones there to help me, I nearly killed them before the long ranged AoE attack of the mage stole my 2 kills -_- nerf mages and rouges damage wayy to high. Same goes for the rouges the use Piercs to kill 3 at once when there low health and the fact that warriors skill output is wayy to slow compared to the other 2 classes

[Cashews]

Aimed shot is not overpowered. Just because it occasionally crits extremely high does NOT mean it is overpowered. I find my crits to average under 1k uncharged with 154.7 base damage. In my opinion that is perfectly acceptable. I can be killed by a warriors windmill skill in 3 hits that literally take 2 seconds to dish out. Windmill requires no stacking like aimed shot and with a vorp buff is unstoppable. But I see it as fair because a rogue simply should not be standing within windmill range of a warrior. So next time you get KOed by 1 aimed shot think of all the stacking required and the time and mana that goes into that high crit%.

[kilian27]

For the sorcerer, its too hard to kill other players and for the warriors, its too easy to score the flag!
Just change those things and it will be much better!

[SuRfY]

The aimed shot is so overpowered. One shot and mages get 75 % to instant kill damage.ridiculous.and im maxed out on armor.

Just curious, how much armour is considered maxed out on mages?

[Destructible]

In my opinion, the current state of pvp is such that everyone strives to kill-steal the other. There is really nothing much that revolves

around skill or builds. And the non-camera rotation also contributes here, making it almost impossible to even see what's happening in a

fight that includes more than three players. These are my thoughts on current Pvp.

[Tilax]

I dont like he kill-steal.... soo many mages and rouge stealing my kills even tho i did the most damage to my opponenets and then from no where they last minute kill and they get the point. Not fair i think it should be based on how much damage you do to the certain opponenmt to get the point.... if you know what i mean....

[dakota1988]

i think mages need a little fix.

mages are squishy as they should, and also not hit as hard as rogue as they should, because their skills also knock and snare targets.

the only problem is the limited skill map. i think as a class that rely so much on skills rather than auto attack, mages should be given special previlege of having 5th skill map, especially since all the passives are not that beneficial for us in pvp.

in current state, to at least survive constantly, mages need heal,shield, and gale, leaving only one more skill map for a nuking skill.

[Infrico]

Firstly, i think the people who are complaining about rogue overpowered are those with not so good gear, although, my lvl 16 rogue was able to crit 1825, so maybe tuning it down a little bit wud be good. Secondly, Mages definetely need to be buffed. Warriors have hp + armor, rogues have high dmg output, the only real thing the mage has to stand a chance was thhe frostbolt, and even that doesnt slow enemies lol...I ddont have any mages myself but they're are far too easy to kill. Warriors > Rogues, Rogues > Mage, and Mages can own warriors but its very difficult tp. Buff them a little. Finally, people are absolute morons if they think rogues > warriors, I have two lvl 16 twinks, warrior and rogue, rogues reduce my hp to about 10% max lmao, and those are the twink ones, so please sts dont listen to those that believe rogues own everything, its all down to skill and gear, dont blame the class blame yourself if you get pwned =).

[dakota1988]

i dont think gear is the issue. most of the mages also have high-end gear. and even if they dont, lvl 20 and lvl 21 gear only have a slight difference. like 5 int, or 5 str, or like 15 dps in total.

[Melodicdeath]

My personal complaint is I'm running out of mana far too quickly...I get one kill and all my mana stores are used up..then I get jumped by 3 others and can't defend myself.... it takes forever to restore my skills. I've been having a lot of fun despite this! Lovin pvp!

[Jimmeh]

My mage is decked out in Demonlord Security / Charward Assault, all L21, with the L21 brutal Int/str ring and necklace.

After putting points into Int and Damage, my stats come out at 1692 health, 275.9 DPS, 305 Int, and 543 armor.

I get one shot by rogues frequently, and it takes me like 15 seconds of kiting to kill a max geared warrior. But it can be done. I am most powerful when I'm standing behind a warrior of my own, though.

Not to give away all the secrets... ;)

[Jimmeh]

My personal complaint is I'm running out of mana far too quickly...I get one kill and all my mana stores are used up..then I get jumped by 3 others and can't defend myself.... it takes forever to restore my skills. I've been having a lot of fun despite this! Lovin pvp!

Use Spacebar more. In fact, don't charge most of your moves unless you have time. It helps your dps, too.

[Alastair Hull]

Rogues way over powered and mages... Very under powered I would say... Damn rogues one shoting!

[drgrimmy]

I am actually suprised. I expected for the worst as my main is a mage. Actually not too bad.
Took some time to get used to but now a solidly positive k/d with about 300 kills so far. Yes
rogues can take me out with two shots, or one with a lucky crit. But rogues are also far easier
to kill than warriors. For the average rogue, one on one, they may get the first shot in, but then
I fireball, ice, gale, fireball, ice them and if they get in stun lock they are dead. Going up against
a good rogue, I have to get lucky, and I go in assuming I will probably die. A warrior is much
tougher. They take forever to kill. And if I let them get close, they can quickly kill me with one
windmill. Despite all the talk of rogues being overpowered, I much rather face a rogue vs a
warrior one on one. That being said, rogues do seem to be racking up the kills faster than any
other class. It would be interesting if the leaderboards for PvP kills and ctf goals could also be
divided up into different classes.

[dakota1988]

also, please give us free respecs during this beta.

[arcaneboss1997]

This is still in beta, and it needs alot of work before its anywhere as good as pl. Respecs need to be free for a time so that people can test out different stat and skill combos. Still good though.

[SpiceMaister]

Warriors are ridiculously overpowered...it's almost impossible so that a sorcerer can 1vs1...please reduce their damage, because 3k health 900 armor and 150dps is OP...i am not a full built mage, but still with my 500 armor 1500health and 150 dps i get oneshoted by rogue, and die in 5 sec vs a warrior...please balance them, reduce warriors dmg or durability and i know that rogues are assassins..but come on 1 shot a mage? it's not fun at all, even if I stay behind, everyody knows mages how easily die they jump on me and dead...no fun.

[Meazeht]

also, please give us free respecs during this beta.

I agree! If this PvP is gonna be a major part of the game, we should be able to adapt...

[Tribalware]

Been playing for a few hours now, evidently the classes are unbalanced. As a sorc with a dps of 273 my main complaint is with the warrior class. Rogues are clearly doing a bit too much damage, a maxed out mage vs a maxed out rogue shouldn't be a 1 hit wonder of a battle. However i've found most of my kills come from rogues, a fireball stun followed up by a quick lightning/frost combo is sometimes enough.

When facing a tank however, I mean why even bother? I run from every warrior I see even if I've got another mage stood by me, I watch them just solo around the maps cleaving through everything. The same warrior could kill me three times before I'd done enough damage to put him down and all I do is chain damage spells, some of the warrior skills effectively make escape impossible and entrapment a certainty.

Essentially after having put a lot of time and effort (not to mention real money, sts) into a powerful sorcerer he's rendered useless at the hands of a class who have a more useful set of support skills and deal out enough damage to cleave through a mage before taking a scratch. Curse is useless as the fights never last long enough, clock doesn't appear to be snaring/rooting effectively and even my frost doesn't seem to slow a warrior down. Not when he can leap halfway across the map at me or (?!) pull me towards him with some sort of chain and then just bludgeon me at close range.

I just don't see why any decent pvp team would want a mage on board? We have no skill set that makes us more useful than either the rogue or warrior in any pvp situation. It's still fun, but I hope something gets done to fix up the imbalances.

[Xman]

Warriors are ridiculously overpowered...it's almost impossible so that a sorcerer can 1vs1...please reduce their damage, because 3k health 900 armor and 150dps is OP...i am not a full built mage, but still with my 500 armor 1500health and 150 dps i get oneshoted by rogue, and die in 5 sec vs a warrior...please balance them, reduce warriors dmg or durability and i know that rogues are assassins..but come on 1 shot a mage? it's not fun at all, even if I stay behind, everyody knows mages how easily die they jump on me and dead...no fun.

I'm totally agree, I have a full built mage, max everything, but can easily killed by a rogue or war, mage is slow and low HP.
War is suppose to have low dame right? how come they can kill me like an ant like that? I can't even run from War or rogue since they have chase skill, if I stand and fight with a War, I will die within 3s.

War's Buff HP is totally OVERPOWERED, can't kill them when they have that skill lol.

Not balance I must say...

So far, I think mage is underpowered by this game, in both PvP and PvE. In PvE, it's ok for a team which doesn't have mage, in fact, they could even clear the map or kill boss faster with 3 rogue and 1 tank. For PvP, so far, it's so easily to kill a mage, and so hard for mage to kill any other beside another mage:(.

I have mage, rogue and war all lv21 and max gears for all of them, so I'm not bias at all. Just say my opinion after nearly 2 months playing.

[dakota1988]

arrior dmg is fine. it's the shield that ridiciuluous.

[dakota1988]

this thread is supposed to talk about class balance. ho can i understand the class balance if i dont have the chance to try every build possible. maybe there is no fix needed if every person have found the best possible build for each class.

conclusion: free respecs :D

[Klark60]

I don't know if this is reported or not, but my 870armor full demonlord warr can't survive 2sec near rouge. I dont even make it to get my spell charaged to heal my self and I am allready dead. I get 2-shooted by rouges, it's insane -.- .

[Meazeht]

Im a mage and, in my opinion, we are at a tight spot because we dont have much life nor damage. Rogues kill me with one shot, and warrior with two. Also, my character is me and my pets + potions. In a battle i should be able to perform to my fullest! If mages cant compete with tanks, then why do we even try? Dont get me wrong, i absolutely love arcane legends, but i cant help but to feel a little left out..

[Matutd]

All you complaining about aimed shot needing a nerf have no clue. If I don't get 1-3 shots kill then I have no mana left. If aimed gets nerfed, rogues need loads more mana. I find that I spend the majority of the game running back to my flag to pick up the mana thing.
Also, warriors are incredibly op. They have pretty much everything, heals, health, damage and stuns. IMO they need a big nerf.

[Xman]

My mage built is good for PvE but not as good for PvP, so my suggestion is instead of free respecs, give us a separate built for PvP, so when we join the arena our built will automatically changed to PvP built. Like normal built, if we want to change PvP built, we need to respec.

This solution base on the fact that skills needed for PvE and PvP are too different

[Meazeht]

I'm totally agree, I have a full built mage, max everything, but can easily killed by a rogue or war, mage is slow and low HP.
War is suppose to have low dame right? how come they can kill me like an ant like that? I can't even run from War or rogue since they have chase skill, if I stand and fight with a War, I will die within 3s.

War's Buff HP is totally OVERPOWERED, can't kill them when they have that skill lol.

Not balance I must say...

So far, I think mage is underpowered by this game, in both PvP and PvE. In PvE, it's ok for a team which doesn't have mage, in fact, they could even clear the map or kill boss faster with 3 rogue and 1 tank. For PvP, so far, it's so easily to kill a mage, and so hard for mage to kill any other beside another mage:(.

I have mage, rogue and war all lv21 and max gears for all of them, so I'm not bias at all. Just say my opinion after nearly 2 months playing.

I agree, however a mage can kill bosses too. Im a good help for my team because i freeze and heal. And even under attack i manage to survive because i have my pet and my POTIONS!! without them i might as well be 'naked' -.- I realize how difficult it must be to balance the three types in battle, but this giant gap between warriors/rogues and sorcerers is kinda ridiculous..

[devilevils]

I have a rogue n sorc, i think yea its been rogue class master pvp for now just by 1 hit n sorc is dead, no matter what the armor of the sorc lol, its overpower i guess for rogue, warrior have a big dmg than sorc ?... lol its not balanced i guess.... sorc is the most weak here i guess

[devilevils]

Totally agree !

[devilevils]

I agree, however a mage can kill bosses too. Im a good help for my team because i freeze and heal. And even under attack i manage to survive because i have my pet and my POTIONS!! without them i might as well be 'naked' -.- I realize how difficult it must be to balance the three types in battle, but this giant gap between warriors/rogues and sorcerers is kinda ridiculous..

Totally agree... lot of my friends r leaving the sorc class

[yuriramos]

Funny how rogues here wont admit that theyre overpowered to avoid being nerfed. Admit it guys, we knew rogues are op even before pvp.

[Tribalware]

yuri is spot on, long before pvp loomed on the horizon we were all well aware that rogues were overpowered. they talked about it openly then because it didn't really matter that much, but it does matter now. seems the best they can do is 'but we have very little mana' which is a fair point but in no way justifies their relative killing capacity. so take your 5 kills, die and respawn with more mana, us sorcs get 1 kill in if we're lucky enough to stumble upon another weaker sorc before we have to respawn, get used to it.

warriors seem to be a *little* more open about their own ridiculously advantageous position because i don't think even many of them were expecting it. but you will notice that all warrior complaints revolve around 'i get nailed way too easy by rogues', leaving the mage very very much below both alternative classes. on top of everything else one of the primary problems for a sorc in pvp is that we are SLOW, i don't understand how a warrior and a rogue can both have fast attack/movement skills that close the distance where a magic user has nothing. yes we can briefly stun or knockback, just about long enough to run away and find a warrior for help if we're lucky.

so sorcs are upset that they get nailed by everything, warriors are upset that they get nailed by well prepared rogues and rogues are upset that they don't have the mana necessary to perpetuate as many 12 kill streaks as they'd like... there's your food chain but the rogue and warrior are definitely in a bracket of their own well above the sorcerer.

i would have much less to complain about as a mage, if it weren't for the fact that we are also useless as a support class in pvp. i specced to deal lots of damage, but thats negated entirely by the fact that despite my 273dps i cant make a dent in a warrior who two/three hit nails me and dont live long enough against a rogue who one hit kills me. so if i'm no good for dealing damage and i'm no good in a support role for either of the other classes, then what am i doing playing the game at all?

[DiabolicSiinz]

i'm almost a lvl 21 rogue with fairly good gear, an i have played pvps b4, my rogue gets killed by all, ppl sayn rogues to strong.... uhmmm waiting to see that.
warriors are WAY OVER POWERED!! i've died so many times by a tanks 2 hit,
i'll give more feedback as i keep playin
PLEASE ACTUALLY BALANCE THE CLASS'S!!!!! for the sake of PVP and THE AL COMMUNITY!

[Matutd]

Funny how rogues here wont admit that theyre overpowered to avoid being nerfed. Admit it guys, we knew rogues are op even before pvp.
It's funny how the people who complain about rogue being op evidently can't play their class properly. Warriors are the most op class at the moment, no doubt. And as for mages, respec. You'll find that with the right spec you'll be able to destroy rogues. I've come up against some good mages while playing. The ones that I one hit are usually wearing terrible gear. When the good mages fight me I don't even get the chance to move. Mages have plenty of stuns/knockdowns/knockbacks, if you're not using them correctly then you're gonna get destroyed.

[Klark60]

also, please give us free respecs during this beta.
Agreed.

[Valsacar]

It's funny how the people who complain about rogue being op evidently can't play their class properly. Warriors are the most op class at the moment, no doubt. And as for mages, respec. You'll find that with the right spec you'll be able to destroy rogues. I've come up against some good mages while playing. The ones that I one hit are usually wearing terrible gear. When the good mages fight me I don't even get the chance to move. Mages have plenty of stuns/knockdowns/knockbacks, if you're not using them correctly then you're gonna get destroyed.

We have stun, from a charged skill. That's it. The range on that bow attack is far longer, so the only way to use it is to get lucky and come up behind a rogue without being noticed. Then I can stun, and maybe kill you off before you get a chance to hit me. During the fight stopping to charge = death, so it's spam attack and hope I deal enough before I die.

[Matutd]

It's funny how the people who complain about rogue being op evidently can't play their class properly. Warriors are the most op class at the moment, no doubt. And as for mages, respec. You'll find that with the right spec you'll be able to destroy rogues. I've come up against some good mages while playing. The ones that I one hit are usually wearing terrible gear. When the good mages fight me I don't even get the chance to move. Mages have plenty of stuns/knockdowns/knockbacks, if you're not using them correctly then you're gonna get destroyed.

We have stun, from a charged skill. That's it. The range on that bow attack is far longer, so the only way to use it is to get lucky and come up behind a rogue without being noticed. Then I can stun, and maybe kill you off before you get a chance to hit me. During the fight stopping to charge = death, so it's spam attack and hope I deal enough before I die.
Shield gives 2 seconds of invulnerability. In those 2 seconds you have plenty time to charge and get close enough.

[Tribalware]

Shield gives 2 seconds of invulnerability. In those 2 seconds you have plenty time to charge and get close enough.

so your argument is that we should respec to deal knockdown and stun effects, yet you also think we should now be using shield too? i've been playing around with pvp specs for my mage all day, and anybody with the balls to say 'any mage moaning about being underpowered just doesn't know how to play their character' deserves to have said balls removed. because in some cases that may be true but for the most part we're just doing our absolute best with not much substance.

i do agree with you though, warriors are the primary problem for me, and most of my kills (in fact i'd say ALL of my solo kills) have come from rogues. you guys are overpowered but i can actually fight you in some way that makes contest interesting, due to the fact that there is a contest at all. but telling sorcs 'well you should be using shield with that 2 sec invulnerability buff to counter me' is laughably unfair. the problem runs a lot lot deeper than silly mage players not knowing what they are doing.

[Melodicdeath]

I am actually suprised. I expected for the worst as my main is a mage. Actually not too bad.
Took some time to get used to but now a solidly positive k/d with about 300 kills so far. Yes
rogues can take me out with two shots, or one with a lucky crit. But rogues are also far easier
to kill than warriors. For the average rogue, one on one, they may get the first shot in, but then
I fireball, ice, gale, fireball, ice them and if they get in stun lock they are dead. Going up against
a good rogue, I have to get lucky, and I go in assuming I will probably die. A warrior is much
tougher. They take forever to kill. And if I let them get close, they can quickly kill me with one
windmill. Despite all the talk of rogues being overpowered, I much rather face a rogue vs a
warrior one on one. That being said, rogues do seem to be racking up the kills faster than any
other class. It would be interesting if the leaderboards for PvP kills and ctf goals could also be
divided up into different classes.
WE DOMINATE GRIM! MAGE POWER! Lol

[nicoB]

Come on. a one shot kill is rare for rogues and it takes at least 3 shots to build up tje crit from aimed shot to fo that witch takes half the mana by itself. As a rogue one charged firball take neay half my hp. and then I'm stuned for wat seems like an eternity. ive played plenty of good mages that made a strategy or a plan for them selves and they own the arena. 2 mages together are hard to beat let alone 3. you guys need to work on your stategy. i garauntee a full team of mages vs a full team of rogues will mop the floor with the rogues. fireball Aoe stun and heal. mages that have thought things through can kill a rogue before the firball stun wears off. its the warriors that are OP

[dakota1988]

okay nicoB, rogues are not OP. Relax.

[Tribalware]

Another incredibly unfair and rather stupid 'mages should just learn to play the game better' argument, you think we aren't already using every trick in the book? We're still getting owned. It's like everyone who isn't a mage is suddenly certain everyone who is a mage must be a bumbling twelve year old idiot who hasn't considered his options. God forbid they rebalance, it's in beta and it's going to happen so give mage players a tiny bit of credit hey? You don't see many people saying 'all those warrior kills are obviously the work of expert strategists' so I don't see why the lack of mage success is instantly attributed to bad tactics.

I enjoy fighting rogues in pvp, it's fun and yes totally doable but you guys are still overpowered in relation to a sorcerer. I think all the '1 hit kill' fuss is unjustified, i've been 1 shot killed once or twice but it's not a game breaker and, as you rogues are so insistent to point out, it's not like you can keep knocking those skills out like we can with our fireballs.

At any rate, what I think we definitely are both in agreement on is that warriors are game breakingly messed up at the moment. *Jump to, swirly swirly, everyone who isn't another warrior is dead*. They seem to be more effective at pursuit, debilitation and AoE damage than either the rogue or the mage at the moment. And that's not right is it.

But I'm really tired of people saying (to like a third of the players on this game) 'you guys need to learn some strategy'. Because up until this point we'd obviously all just been running around stabbing wildly at our skill selection page and pumping all our attribute points into a str/dex build.

[Bejo]

just try play pvp with 3 class and you will know. I dont play much my rogue in pvp since i dont have good skill for pvp. For now warrior is the best for pvp, yeah even some times get killed very fast to rogue but over all warrior is the best. the problem is sorcerer, they really weak, they can attack from distance and can stun but not enough, my warrior with 50% hp can easily kill full hp sorcerer. rogue may have problem with mana but in a match mostly good rogue do most kill. in single match with my warrior i can kill about 4-16 kill and can goal all 5 flag, with rogue can kill 10-30 with few flag if lucky, sorcerer mostly can kill 2-5 with many dead (killed more than kill) flag? really lucky if can bring flag half way lol. but that just my try with my characters with my current build skill and attribute set, hope sts give free respec so i can try an other build.

[devilevils]

Please balance the class especially in the pvp room, thx

[yuriramos]

At the end of every game, how often do you see a mage get top kills? Come on, one hit kill to a max equiped class is overpower. Normally the weakest def class in any mmo usually has the best firepower, but not in this game. Even top leaderboard rouges in my guild admits they are op. Come on guys, stop thinking of urselves and think of how devs can balance out the classes for the sake of the game.

[Asahetek]

All classes have weakness and can kill each other, there are alot of balanceing issues in the game. Yes rogues can sometimes one shot kill but our mana is horible and im always running out, when that happens i either die or kill them. Also we can be killed easily sometimes, good sorc can stun or fireball us before our mana regaina and kill us, warriors have tons of health and armour and same goes for what i said about sorc they can kill us easily to sometimes, other rogues can one hit each other alot.

[Pulenski]

I've just played a few games on my mage with the same spec i'd been using for pve, fireball, frost, timeshift, heal. First couple games were ok and I was even joint top kills in one I think. I was admiring my modest K/D ratio but then joined another game and finished with only 2 kills and quite possibly the most deaths by a long way. Rogues were KOing me big time and when trying to kite either rogues or warriors they close the distance so easily with their jump/dart skills. Had a fight with one mage who seemed to have the shield ability and he came out the winner despite (I checked) slightly less damage but more health.

At this point I would just like to see free respecs for a little while so we can figure what our best build is without draining loads of plat... because right now the fireball stun and timeshift(snare) are all I have in my arsenal to combat the evil melee classes :(

[Aristeia]

As a rogue, I tend to do pretty well, but the thing is, anyone who uses their build efficiently should stand up well enough. Rogues have low hp and the healing perk isn't a very viable option because you have to loot the healthpacks while in combat. I'm not going to do a typical "rogues have no mana, whaa", because I have 650+ mana which is fine. It dissapears quickly, but I expect to die fairly quickly anyway. Rogues aren't as prone to healing as warriors or magers, and as a result, we have extremely low chances of surviving in group battles.

Mages seem to get the worst of everything, but I don't really see how. As a poster above mentioned, it's all about utilizing your skills efficiently. I'd imagine a mage who uses a lot of stuns would be a massive pain for rogues and warriors alike. A problem with this however, is that I've experienced warriors attacking me from a distance, I don't know if it was ping, but I'll test it later. I think other people have found this too - and no, it isn't due to the rushing perk they have.

I don't think any class is OP, because each class has their respective playing styles. Rogues are supposed to hit hard and die quickly, warriors are supposed to be a more balanced build, whereas mages should ideally favor range and SPECIAL ATTACKS - something that could be improved within PvP. Things like the shield are a good step, because it ensures they don't get killed really fast, but I think they should have more offensive capabilities. I tend to trash them.

Anyway, in short;

-Fix warriors hitting from a range (if they truly do)
-Buff up mages, give them new perks. It seems they need an overhaul.
However, I'm also convinced that mages CAN do well already, it just depends on how someone uses them. It's just as likely that a warrior or rogue can do terribly if the wrong skills are used.

As far as I've experienced, two warriors = hell for any build.

Edit: And to those saying rogues are OP, I regularly get trampled on by warriors, and I'm a level 17 with all pinks, of which are around level 15-17.

Edit 2: Kill stealing sucks, remove jump/dashing skills. You could just keep the increased damage effect but remove the movement while in a PvP area.

[Patricks]

Kill stealing rogues.

[Decrpito]

Mages are good, weak but with the most mana to cast spells, and with a good combo can kill any character. Easiest targets are other sor and rogues, rogues aren that hard come on, hardest to kill obvously tanks because of the hp, but i can manage that class to. Learn some strategy, and ejoy the game, maybe ill be better in the next days.

[Pulenski]

Already posted and mentioned this but want to reiterate it again. What would be extremely useful and helpful at this early stage would be free respecs for however long. Not everyone is in a position to splurge 5 plat each time they want to experiment with their build at a time where PvP is the new update and there is evidently a lot of tweaking needed with regards to skill sets and such.

[Patricks]

I respecced a bunch of times trying all sorts of things.

I maxed speed passive in one. Seems like it made no difference. Can u check?

Also, it's unfair others can use their skill while holding flag that allows then to move ahead quickly, but Mage speed boost skill is voided when carrying flag.

[nicoB]

Mages are a support class. there not supposes to be going lone wold, running around trashing everything in sight. the problem isnt balance, its team work. if mages work together or with a rogue or warrior they will do just fine and its the mages that dont try to go solo that survive. CTF is a team game which means work together to get the flag. the classes are just the way they should be. everyone just wants to play lone wolf and doent work out that way. if people actually worked in teams i think they would find that its not nearly as bad as it seemed to be before. there is the problem with warriors having bow range with swords which i dont get o.O and there not that hard to take down as long as you dont rush them like a mob in pve, and thars wat i see a lot of. its not pve its pvp you have to use a different tactic. It goes like this warrior meatsheild, rogue destroy meatshield or each other. and mage provide support with aoe stuns, snare,ranged attack and heals. mage is not a tank class or and attack class, they are support. there not meant to be at the front of the battle but somewhere in the back. why else would all your attacks be ranged. it makes sense right? so do what your class is designed to do and you will be just fine in pvp unless your team sucks.

[Erdnase]

lol everyone thinks that their class is on bottom and the other classes' powers should be nerfed, well how does that make it fair? :) I'm a lvl 21 mage and i have no trouble killing and living, i've gotten 40+ kills in one run, and i haven't even had to respec. Maybe yes the aimed shot seems unfair too me but my shield seems unfair to the rogues. Listen guys, u shouldn't expect not to die, just find what combo attacks do the best for u and practice. I fill we each have our ups and downs, but overall we're fairly equal.

[nicoB]

Also it would be better if the number of each class on a team is limited so we dont get 5 warriors on one team

[nicoB]

lol everyone thinks that their class is on bottom and the other classes' powers should be nerfed, well how does that make it fair? :) I'm a lvl 21 mage and i have no trouble killing and living, i've gotten 40+ kills in one run, and i haven't even had to respec. Maybe yes the aimed shot seems unfair too me but my shield seems unfair to the rogues. Listen guys, u shouldn't expect not to die, just find what combo attacks do the best for u and practice. I fill we each have our ups and downs, but overall we're fairly equal.

i completely agree

[Xman]

From my perspective, you can not say rogue or warrior is OP when both of you said it's hard to fight against each other. If War say Rogue's damage is too high, yes they are, and rogue say War's defend and hp are too high, yes they are. So in the end, both of you have your strong points that make each other feel dangerous to face in a battle. So it's quite balance between war and rogue, the rest depend on gears and skills built.

And from the fact that no Rogue and War complain anything about mage is OP, so we can understand that mage is weak enough for them to kill, easily. Slow, low HP, no crit, low defend, the only strong point of mage is stun, but that obviously not enough for them, they can easily being killed when War and rogue wake up from stun. I think some ways to balance this are:
1) Let mage's skill have those effects without being charges (This need to be tested because it can aslo make mage become OP).
2) Increase damage from mage normal attack (without using skill). So they can deal more dame when enemy still stunned.

I have all 3 classes mage, rog and war so plz don't say I'm bias or anything like that.

[dakota1988]

i think the problem is that mages have higher skill cap than rogues.

that is, mages need a much more skilled player to achieve its maximum killing effectivity. rogues, on the other hand, have smaller skill cap, that is, easy to achieve its full killing effectivity. hell, any 5yo can kill anybody just spamming aimed shot. on the other hand, mages need to time their skills,positioning, and have the right skill composition depends on their gear. this makes rogues seem like OP in the short run. but in the long run, mages player should found the best possible build and gameplay for their character. but, again, to achieve this, mages need many respecs...

so please just give it already. i can't believe the free respecs isn't up yet.

[Asireuz]

I get that support class and teamwork line of thinking, and I assume that's how STS tested the balance of the game. In that case they did a fair job. But we know that's not how it's going to be played.

I am a mage, and do support roles, don't mind if I just stun for others to get the kill etc., but when I get killed and spawn far away from my team. Now how can I perform any teamwork when there's a bloodthirsty rogue between me and my team. And I can't wait on the sidelines, because spawn is not safe.

The fact is, pvp will be played with random people, and we won't see our ideal teams all the time (or at all). We need to be able to get by in those imperfect conditions. In my view, it doesn't take much for the game to get chaotic at the moment.

[Cero]

if devs nerf rogue, giving them shorter range or mid range would be fair for mages. right?

[Arcana]

make mages frost bolt can freeze if not why its called frost bolt:tongue:
and I agree with the free respec.At least give us once.Oh yeah one tips for mages,try watch rifle and take your distance from your enemy,you will own haha

[DEFENESTRATION]

HOW about... A health bar on enemies?!? All other mobs have this, why didn't it occur to put them in PVP? At least to give me solace when I get WTFpwned. And it would allow us to give better feedback to you devs, being able to see what kind of damage our abilities and skills cause (or don't cause).

[Matutd]

Shield gives 2 seconds of invulnerability. In those 2 seconds you have plenty time to charge and get close enough.

so your argument is that we should respec to deal knockdown and stun effects, yet you also think we should now be using shield too? i've been playing around with pvp specs for my mage all day, and anybody with the balls to say 'any mage moaning about being underpowered just doesn't know how to play their character' deserves to have said balls removed. because in some cases that may be true but for the most part we're just doing our absolute best with not much substance.

i do agree with you though, warriors are the primary problem for me, and most of my kills (in fact i'd say ALL of my solo kills) have come from rogues. you guys are overpowered but i can actually fight you in some way that makes contest interesting, due to the fact that there is a contest at all. but telling sorcs 'well you should be using shield with that 2 sec invulnerability buff to counter me' is laughably unfair. the problem runs a lot lot deeper than silly mage players not knowing what they are doing.
If you're going to refuse to spec to a play style that works for mage then it's your on fault for being underpowered. If I refused to use all arrow skills, I'd be underpowered too, but instead if whining on the forums about it, I spec so that I have those arrow skills.

[Patricks]

Mages are like a bra from 1995. Offers support but poor support.

[Arcana]

Mages are like a bra from 1995. Offers support but poor support.
LOL

[Hadezs]

Dev Team, i believe it's all depend on yr build n yr equip.. the one rule are 99.9% using mill $ equip & correct build for pvp, pvp strategy,.. if not why should they invest.. $ & time. Ppl should check yr equip & build first... remember.. legend weapons or armors have good ones n even high end ones & lvl... if they think that few thousand $ pink stuff rule.. they need to think again... i saw some pro mage, rogue too...killing all.. hw they are going to explain that? Dev Team, pls seroiusly review before u change anything...

[Bejo]

HOW about... A health bar on enemies?!? All other mobs have this, why didn't it occur to put them in PVP? At least to give me solace when I get WTFpwned. And it would allow us to give better feedback to you devs, being able to see what kind of damage our abilities and skills cause (or don't cause).

agree with this one, we need to know our opponent hp

[dakota1988]

free respecs! free respecs! free respecs!

if people already respecs, and yet there's still balance issues, then sure, a fix is needed.

but currently, a fix is not certain, since most ppl still rolling in pve/random builds.

[Hadezs]

in pvp, hp is hidden.. we should not know thier hp... thumb of rule..

[Majora]

dont fix anything let people work their way around the problems

[Thermite]

After having played one match of ctf, I agree that warriors are op (I am a lvl 21 warrior btw). Rogues deal a ton of damage, but warriors can outlast them depending on their build. However, with that said, a good rogue can still beat a good warrior. But, when push comes to shove, I give the warrior the slight edge over the rogue. On the other hand, mages are completely at a disadvantage because they die within a few hits. By the time the match ended, I had racked up 20 kills and died 5 times with all my deaths coming as a result of being jumped (I'm not complaining about jumping, it's part of the game and a valid strategy).

[yuriramos]

HOW about... A health bar on enemies?!? All other mobs have this, why didn't it occur to put them in PVP? At least to give me solace when I get WTFpwned. And it would allow us to give better feedback to you devs, being able to see what kind of damage our abilities and skills cause (or don't cause).

This iss a great suggestion. With this you'll know what skill to use and when

[Itoopeo]

I have level 17 warrior. Currently 165 kills 21 deaths. Like 30 minutes ago i joined a game where i got 7 deaths by dogue who takes me down with one hit. I have ~600 armor and ~2500 health. That rogue Qiu or Qui got 102 kills in a game. He just one shot kill everyone. I think its some kind of cheat or classes are really unbalanced. Can you tell me is it normal or does he cheat. I dont like to get one hit death by lower level rogue. I have legendary set and weapon with 80 damage.

[Itoopeo]

I saw that shot coming and boom i took like 3000 damage and died

[yuriramos]

dont fix anything let people work their way around the problems
We dont need comments like these. The thread is mainly the community's feedback to improve pvp.

[Energizeric]

I didn't have time to read this entire thread, but I see the same complaints over and over, so I think I'll comment on a couple of them:

1) Complaint: Rogues run out of mana too fast.

Answer: Maybe you need to spec more INT. If you want a rogue that hits hard enough to one-hit a mage, then you are going to be unbalanced. If you spec more INT, then you will hit slightly less hard, but have way more mana.

2) Complaint: Mages die too easily.

Answer: Mages are not tanks. If you try to tank with your mage, you will lose. Try staying away and hit with long ranged attacks. If you can keep your distance you will win every time. If the warrior or rogue closes the distance and gets in close range of you, then you will lose. This one issue will decide most battles.


As for my suggested changes, I'd like to see Mage Frost skill actually have some affect of at least slowing the enemy. Right now it seems to do nothing more than just cause damage. Also, I'm not sure why but I've had quite a few experiences where warriors seem to dodge my fireball attacks (the stun doesn't work on them), and I'm not sure why since warriors have terrible dodge.

[devilevils]

Mages are like a bra from 1995. Offers support but poor support.
Lol totally agree with u

[devilevils]

I think it would be nice if mage frost bolt is doing well in pvp like it works to the monster and with a better speed i guess, wondering a warior can jump n also can buff themselves the speed wtf, its like a warrior have a more usefull supporting skill than mage

If the frost bolt doesnt frost anything so change the skill name with NO FROST BOLT lmao

[Ladycandyheal]

3 fights ....
i probably can't even last 1/5 of a fight, walk up , see's a rogue, attack 1-3 times, dies.... end of story. xD
ps im a mage

Exactly! That's why I retired my Rogue even before PVP because of the really low mana regen problem. It got so annoying tapping the mana so often even though Pets with mana regen did help but not enough.

I never tried respec to a half STR/DEX build to have more health but I'm sure the rogue dmg would be considerably lower of course. I might start playing my Rogue again to try PVP once I get 1 mil again which might take a good while unless I score great drops to pay for the Rogue Pink armor/weapon/jewelry

Please, add a better way for Rogues to gain mana :)

On a positive note about class balance, My warrior felt a bit neglected but not now in PVP! It's really nice to play a warrior in PVP. :D

Mages in PVP are of course glass cannons but shield does help. If 2 warriors attack me, I'm a goner, so that's not too fun but just the way it is.

I would like mages to have a "stoneskin" like skill where for a certain period of seconds (more than 3 c'mon), Mage armor is doubled. That would make PVP more enjoyable instead of anticipating being smashed to a pulp despite all kinds of builds I have done spending at least 25 platinum in total.

Thanks for your time. :)

[KR1T1K4L]

Balancing seems fine. Possibly aside from that 1 shot thing people are talking about. That however isn't game breaking.

What needs to be added:
Health Bars above players. (We need to know whether or not we're wasting our time fighting.. If my opponent is close to death, I'd like to know so I can tell what skills to use and when.)

When a player on your team has the flag, he should be visible on the map. Also, when a player on the enemy team has the flag, that player should be visible also to encourage teamwork/coordination.

Game "minimaps" in general need to be smaller and near the top corner of screen instead of all over the screen. (I know that's not PvP related really, but having the map out gets in the way more during PvP, though it's also necessary.)

When players come into the lobby, they should be automatically pre-selected to teams based on level in order to balance the games. (Too often I've had games where my team average level was ~12 and other team in the 16's, or vise versa. Not fun winning too easily or getting pwned without being able to do anything.)

If you enter with a party, you should be able to fight with that party. It'd be fun to pvp with my friends. (In order not to contradict my previous fix, lets say I go in with a friend: My friend and I would be first to be placed on a team and then solo players added to teams for best possible level balance for that lobby. I suppose this should be limited to like a 3 person party though possibly?)

PvP gear/items/costumes! In exchange for PvP currency. Possibly 1 token/win or something along those lines?

When a flag carrier has flag, there should be a small arrow pointing in the direction of that player's objective. Even though I know where I'm going, doesn't mean everyone does. And even sometimes I may get turned around, it happens :P

I'd have to agree that credit for the kill shouldn't come from the final killing blow, but what are the alternatives?
Some games credit the kill to everyone who did damage. (Does this grant satisfaction of the kill? Depends on who you ask)
Could determine kill based on who did most damage, but what if I do 2k damage to someone who has 1.5k max hp of course they were healing during the fight, they then fully heal to 100%. Then when that person is manatapped, my teammate comes along and solos the manatapped guy at full health, who'd get the kill then? That situation really eliminates this option.

More stats post game please: K/D, assists, damage done, damage healed, flags taken, carriers killed, etc. (This would encourage healing and allow us to see who's contributing, as well as allow us to provide you guys with better feedback!)

That's it for now, when I think of more suggestions, I'll definitely bring them up. Want to talk to me in game about the PvP? Send me a message in game: Sephirroth

Great game so far I'm loving it! ^^

[yuriramos]

I didn't have time to read this entire thread, but I see the same complaints over and over, so I think I'll comment on a couple of them:

1) Complaint: Rogues run out of mana too fast.

Answer: Maybe you need to spec more INT. If you want a rogue that hits hard enough to one-hit a mage, then you are going to be unbalanced. If you spec more INT, then you will hit slightly less hard, but have way more mana.

2) Complaint: Mages die too easily.

Answer: Mages are not tanks. If you try to tank with your mage, you will lose. Try staying away and hit with long ranged attacks. If you can keep your distance you will win every time. If the warrior or rogue closes the distance and gets in close range of you, then you will lose. This one issue will decide most battles.


As for my suggested changes, I'd like to see Mage Frost skill actually have some affect of at least slowing the enemy. Right now it seems to do nothing more than just cause damage. Also, I'm not sure why but I've had quite a few experiences where warriors seem to dodge my fireball attacks (the stun doesn't work on them), and I'm not sure why since warriors have terrible dodge.

No matter how far back mages go, you still get hit with the overpowered aim shot. Also the warrior skill thats , im not sure what its called, thats the same range as a bow. Warriors arnt meant to have bow range attacks.

[Itoopeo]

No matter how far back mages go, you still get hit with the overpowered aim shot. Also the warrior skill thats , im not sure what its called, thats the same range as a bow. Warriors arnt meant to have bow range attacks.
Warriors has throwing axe and skyward smash that actually brings us close to target. Smash can also stun for 1-2 seconds and its enough to get charged spin going.

[Itoopeo]

I got1/3 of points in int 1/3 in str 1/3 in dex. I still lose all 800 mana really fast and regen takes forever

[Energizeric]

No matter how far back mages go, you still get hit with the overpowered aim shot. Also the warrior skill thats , im not sure what its called, thats the same range as a bow. Warriors arnt meant to have bow range attacks.

Yes, I see that happens a lot. Perhaps I need to figure out a way to avoid that. The main problem is that without screen rotation I never see it coming. Often times I'm dead before I even had a chance to press the heal button let alone start to fight back.

Yesterday I had a pretty good run but today I had a stretch at one point where I died about 20 times in a row without a kill. Probably had something to do with the fact that the other team was all rogues.

[Hadec]

PvP gear/items/costumes! In exchange for PvP currency. Possibly 1 token/win or something along those lines?

was thinking exactly the same?!:0

[Kide2008]

To All of The Developers out there, i will tell you the truth i'v got 3 characters lvl 21 with perfect weapons and all of them are will balanced , don't listen to these people that claim that it is not balanced ( they just trying to make their only character stronger and stronger regarding of the truth ). they will just have to find out what build they need and what strategy .

[veins]

Warrior, lvl 21, 3k HP, 1k Armor... I'm getting killed by rogues with 2 shots. It's just 3 seconds and I'm dead. Being a tank now is one BIG JOKE...

[Energizeric]

I'd say rogues are definitely OP. I'm a sorcerer with top gear, and I just can't kill rogues at all ever. I own all sorcerers, I kill about 95% of them when I encounter them 1-on-1. When it comes to warriors, I win about half of the time. And when it comes to rogues I die very quick every single time. When I went up against a team of 4 rogues earlier today, I died about 20 times and had no kills.

When fighting a rogue (if you can even call it a fight), I usually die before I get a chance to use any of my skills. I haven't played a rogue before, so I'm not familiar with their skills, but they leap at me from a long distance away (most times it's a surprise as I didn't see them coming because they started this leap from a place not visible on my screen) and then hit me, which results in my health going down to 20-30% (I have 1700 health), and at the same time I am stunned from this first hit. Then before I can use any of my skills (because I'm stunned), they finish me off with the next hit.

My solution as of now is to leave the game when there is more than one rogue on the other team and find a new game. It normally takes a few minutes of joining and quitting games, but I eventually find a suitable game.

[I'm Siri]

I just too lazy to read all the posts. Maybe this already bring up. Anyway here my opinion on the new AL's PvP

Balance or unbalance. Hard to define.

Here is my Viewpoint from my Mage with Top end Gears and countless of respec for different build tested

Vs Mighty ROGUE
10 attempt with 9 dead.

ROGUE OP?
One shot or two with a eyes blink sec in MMORPG's PVP is kinda lame. I must as well play shooting game with headshot.
A charged Aim shot with 14m range (and crit) then follow with the Shadow Pierce hit. BOOM. u done for. (That only 2 skills needed for ROGUE, not to mention other bow skills that have long range)
I try counter this with my 12m range fireball with stun. But the success rate is 0.01%
So now whenever I see a ROGUE. Turn and run. Lol
The only con is the low mana for ROGUE.
My suggestion
Increase mana. Nerf aim shot range and dmg for rogue.

Vs Warrior
I like to fight warrior. Long and epic fight.
They have high armor and health but low dmg output.
So the Mage vs Warrior so far is more balance for me. (50/50 fight)

Vs Mage
Nothing much to said. Depend on what your build. My build usually owned all kind of Mage:)

Anyway, all above fight is 1v1 encounter. I know CTF in AL is more to team work.
Overall, if 2 good teams with different class should be more balance and fun fight.
Now the problem is you take forever to join your teammates.

Hope GvG (leaderboard as well)is introduce in near future else I don't see the point having a Guild with all the dramas.

PS: when you with flag. I dont know why the Mage gale force speed didn't work but Rouge's shadow pierce and Warrior's Smash stomp work well. So this need to balance too.

That's all for now. I may give more feedback if I encounter any.

[Rays364]

I joined these forums for one reason nerf Rogue. She is way too powerful. So many times i played games with rogues where they get over 20 kills. They can 1 shot KO a sorcerer. There are many people I seen say if rogue doesn't get weaker I quit. So I won't be the only customer quitting if Rogue doesn't get nerfed. I think warrior is balanced, nerf rogue a lot in damage and buff sorcerer's health.
I have a lvl 21 warrior and lvl 21 sorcerer.

[Rays364]

Tell me why ayone would use mage if they can use rogue? Rogue has more health, does more damage, has more range, has better armor and has better skills. The only thing mage has thats better than rogue is mana. But whats the point in having mana if you get killed less than a second by a rogue?

[nicoB]

Rogues are balanced. although your better off with a rogue on your team too. rogues literally slaughter each other, all those kills that see rogues have at the end of a match mostly come feom other rogues. Mages your not underpowered whenever i fight a mage that knows wat he/she is doing i loose 90% of the time in a 1 on 1 fight and I'm a really good rogue 750+ kills and warriors hate me lol. mage you guys need to strategise. the shield is the biggest pain in the but or rogues because it makes aimed shot look like shadow storm shot (the weakest arrow foe single target damage) so i suggest you use it. You more or equal dps. ill tell you how much dmg charged firball does. it takes close to half of my health ans I'm stunned for a ridiculously long time. enough time for you to kill me before it wears off. with all your attacks being ranged and with stuns like that. of course your going to die quickly. just look at your character, its a squishy blue creature that wears bones for armor what do you expect?

[Rays364]

If rogues are balanced how come they get over 20 kills most games? I had a duel with a rogue as well with my warrior, used all the skills I had and the rogue still killed me. I can kill evrything with my warrior no problem but rogues. Also, rogues can 1 KO sorcerers and 2 shot KO warriors, warriors are meant to have incredibly high health but they die in ablink of an eye against rogues. SInce when was this fair. The only reason you don't want rogue nerfed is since you use him. Look at how powerful a rogue is in everyone else perspective.

[nicoB]

most of the kills rogues get come from other rogues! Because rogues literally slaughter each other. 2 shot KO's never happen on warriors, your the only ive ever witnessed say that and ive talked to lots of warriors and fought lots of warriors. it takes effort to kill a warrior you have a 50% chance of beating one in a 1 on 1 fight and wariors usually work in pairs

[veins]

I'm waiting for an update. Untill then, I'm not going to PVP anymore. It's totally BS that rogues are killing me with 2 shots. I've got 3k HP and 1k Armor... Few minutes ago I was playing against rogue with bow. He was running around and killing people. Cound't even get close to him... Bows are selling very well now in CS... :] Go figure!

[nicoB]

I'm waiting for an update. Untill then, I'm not going to PVP anymore. It's totally BS that rogues are killing me with 2 shots. I've got 3k HP and 1k Armor... Few minutes ago I was playing against rogue with bow. He was running around and killing people. Cound't even get close to him... Bows are selling very well now in CS... :] Go figure!

lol that was probably me, and thats why warriors have axe throw. it pulls enemies towards you. ive been pulled halfway across the arena by axe throw well it felt that way Nd warriors can swing there swords feom bow range and deal damage for reason

[Tribalware]

Ok, so I feel compelled to collect here a listing of my favourite profoundly stupid arguments against sorcerers not being underpowered, you rogues and warriors can desperately duke it out over who deserves not to be nerfed, but some of the stuff I've seen posted here is just outright daft. And quite obviously unashamed attempts to weigh in against any sort of rebalance by undermining the intelligence of a huge section of players who are at a very obvious disadvantage.

- "Mages, learn to play your characters properly. You are balanced just fine it's just ALL of you must be retarded or something" (this argument it seems can be neatly subdivided into a few more specific claims):

- 'The mages talking are probably using weak *** gear man, noobs...' ACTUALLY the mages who have been talking about underpowered sorcs are mostly maxed, that means the top gear going. These are players who have most likely spent a lot of time and hard plat on their chars, don't undermine our hard work.
- (My personal favourite) 'You mages need to learn some strategy, try playing in a team. Noobs...' ACTUALLY have you ever tried this? Of course we try and play in teams, we desperately seek out friendlies to hide behind wherever possible but 1) Rogues and warriors don't give a damn about teamwork, they solo it all over the map because they can. If the other two classes aren't encouraged by game mechanics to stick to teams then it's a completely unfair ask to tell mages that we should maybe think about this little thing they call 'teamwork'. 2) Have you ever actually played a game of PvP? You spawn by yourself all over the map and are forced to wander blindly until you bump into some friends who you can keep up with (made impossible by the fact that both other classes have jump-to abilities) or some enemies who inevitably slay you.
- 'You mages clearly don't know how to build your chars, you've got all those cool knockdown and stun effects. Noobs...' ACTUALLY we don't, we just don't. A charged fireball spell is useful, yes. But our frost spell doesn't even cause an ememy to slow, so now I have to spec out my favourite spell just because it's inexplicably useless in PvP. I've not even seen my charged lightning deliver a stun yet, so I'm not even sure the 20% shot we get at that happening is working. Gale force can be a minor irritation to an enemy but when a warrior can instantly jump back to within 2cm of you and a rogue is still in range after you've knocked him back it kind of negates the usefulness of this spell. So a brief stun from a charged fireball, that's what we've got. Leading neatly into the next outrageously stupid thing I've heard posted up here.
- 'Mages are a support class dude, you shouldn't be expecting loads of kills or whatever it's not your job. Noobs...' ACTUALLY... are you serious, are you genuinely serious? Have you ever played a mage? We are a terrible support class. We have 4 spells that form our 'support' bracket, one is shield so not a support spell at all, one is curse which is completely ineffectual in PvP, one is heal which I'm sure might be useful for other players if it weren't for the fact that every class can heal and more effectively than we can (that warrior HP buff is obscene). And the last is clock, a nice idea but it drops where we stand and requires a charge to become worthwhile, whilst we're dropping a clock we've got warriors landing on our heads and rogues taking us down well out of range of our poxy little snare. I'm not saying clock couldn't be a bit useful, but one semi useful support skill does not make a support class. To put it simply - either a warrior or a rogue on it's own functions better as a support class than a mage. I'd be very interested to hear any sensible counter arguments to that.

A sub-division of 'mage' into perhaps a cleric and wizard class (one which possessed some unique and useful support skills and one which dealt solely with AoE, damage and some proper stun effects would fix this up. But at the moment we have the worst of both worlds, less damage than the rogue and a useless slew of support skills.

I'm not saying I expect to be able to tank, that's why I chose not to play a tank. But keeping your distance is a little difficult when you're outranged by rogues and warriors can close on you before you get a chance to charge a spell that would ultimately have no effect anyway. Mages need an overhaul, just look at us dev's, look at the sorry state of us.

To conclude - as many other sensible players have stated it is usually the case that the weakest class also deals the most damage/possesses the most powerful support skills. The mage does neither. So stop telling us that we must all be poorly specced/lack the right gear/not know how to work in a team or that we should be utilising our support skills. These are, and I hate to repeat myself, quite profoundly unintelligent attempts to avoid a fair rebalance. Rogues and warriors don't have to think for two seconds about their tactics or their teamwork, and even whilst us mages are doing all of those things intently we are still getting completely outmatched no matter the circumstances. Cut us a break would you. I like this game, but there are some rather unjustified things being said on this thread that are severely damaging my faith in its player base.

Discussion welcome, arguments not.

[Tribalware]

To All of The Developers out there, i will tell you the truth i'v got 3 characters lvl 21 with perfect weapons and all of them are will balanced , don't listen to these people that claim that it is not balanced ( they just trying to make their only character stronger and stronger regarding of the truth ). they will just have to find out what build they need and what strategy .

As a quick illustration of my point - What are the names of your three maxed out characters that you have tested fairly against one another? No sane person who had done such a thing could possibly post this drivel in good conscience. I'd like to meet these three characters of yours, because I put it to you good sir that you are in fact lying through your teeth. 'Everything is fine the way it is, anyone who says otherwise doesn't know how to build a character or has no concept of strategy'. I'm going to put it to you simply (because it's simple) - this is not a complicated game, and PvP as it currently stands is not a complicated game mode. Trust me, I've been playing strats and rpg's since before waypoints were a thing. Building a good character is actually very easy providing you have the slightest notion of common sense and utilising 'strategy' in PvP is about as hard as knocking out a toasted sandwich. Gratuitous use of the word 'truth' like that could be considered offensive to those of us with some concept of it.

[devilevils]

To All of The Developers out there, i will tell you the truth i'v got 3 characters lvl 21 with perfect weapons and all of them are will balanced , don't listen to these people that claim that it is not balanced ( they just trying to make their only character stronger and stronger regarding of the truth ). they will just have to find out what build they need and what strategy .

If u dont mind please named your sorc here n let me add u to proove with my rogue in pvp...

[Rays364]

Mage is good when you know how to use him but he is still underpowered. He needs ahealth buff definetly. Since when was 1 shot KO with an arrow balanced and since when was rogue killing you less than a second in close range and faster than you with skills balanced? Rogue is better than mage in almost everyway. This has to be fixed by buffing mage and nerfing rogue. Warriors are balanced.

[nicoB]

Ok, so I feel compelled to collect here a listing of my favourite profoundly stupid arguments against sorcerers not being underpowered, you rogues and warriors can desperately duke it out over who deserves not to be nerfed, but some of the stuff I've seen posted here is just outright daft. And quite obviously unashamed attempts to weigh in against any sort of rebalance by undermining the intelligence of a huge section of players who are at a very obvious disadvantage.

- "Mages, learn to play your characters properly. You are balanced just fine it's just ALL of you must be retarded or something" (this argument it seems can be neatly subdivided into a few more specific claims):

- 'The mages talking are probably using weak *** gear man, noobs...' ACTUALLY the mages who have been talking about underpowered sorcs are mostly maxed, that means the top gear going. These are players who have most likely spent a lot of time and hard plat on their chars, don't undermine our hard work.
- (My personal favourite) 'You mages need to learn some strategy, try playing in a team. Noobs...' ACTUALLY have you ever tried this? Of course we try and play in teams, we desperately seek out friendlies to hide behind wherever possible but 1) Rogues and warriors don't give a damn about teamwork, they solo it all over the map because they can. If the other two classes aren't encouraged by game mechanics to stick to teams then it's a completely unfair ask to tell mages that we should maybe think about this little thing they call 'teamwork'. 2) Have you ever actually played a game of PvP? You spawn by yourself all over the map and are forced to wander blindly until you bump into some friends who you can keep up with (made impossible by the fact that both other classes have jump-to abilities) or some enemies who inevitably slay you.
- 'You mages clearly don't know how to build your chars, you've got all those cool knockdown and stun effects. Noobs...' ACTUALLY we don't, we just don't. A charged fireball spell is useful, yes. But our frost spell doesn't even cause an ememy to slow, so now I have to spec out my favourite spell just because it's inexplicably useless in PvP. I've not even seen my charged lightning deliver a stun yet, so I'm not even sure the 20% shot we get at that happening is working. Gale force can be a minor irritation to an enemy but when a warrior can instantly jump back to within 2cm of you and a rogue is still in range after you've knocked him back it kind of negates the usefulness of this spell. So a brief stun from a charged fireball, that's what we've got. Leading neatly into the next outrageously stupid thing I've heard posted up here.
- 'Mages are a support class dude, you shouldn't be expecting loads of kills or whatever it's not your job. Noobs...' ACTUALLY... are you serious, are you genuinely serious? Have you ever played a mage? We are a terrible support class. We have 4 spells that form our 'support' bracket, one is shield so not a support spell at all, one is curse which is completely ineffectual in PvP, one is heal which I'm sure might be useful for other players if it weren't for the fact that every class can heal and more effectively than we can (that warrior HP buff is obscene). And the last is clock, a nice idea but it drops where we stand and requires a charge to become worthwhile, whilst we're dropping a clock we've got warriors landing on our heads and rogues taking us down well out of range of our poxy little snare. I'm not saying clock couldn't be a bit useful, but one semi useful support skill does not make a support class. To put it simply - either a warrior or a rogue on it's own functions better as a support class than a mage. I'd be very interested to hear any sensible counter arguments to that.

A sub-division of 'mage' into perhaps a cleric and wizard class (one which possessed some unique and useful support skills and one which dealt solely with AoE, damage and some proper stun effects would fix this up. But at the moment we have the worst of both worlds, less damage than the rogue and a useless slew of support skills.

I'm not saying I expect to be able to tank, that's why I chose not to play a tank. But keeping your distance is a little difficult when you're outranged by rogues and warriors can close on you before you get a chance to charge a spell that would ultimately have no effect anyway. Mages need an overhaul, just look at us dev's, look at the sorry state of us.

To conclude - as many other sensible players have stated it is usually the case that the weakest class also deals the most damage/possesses the most powerful support skills. The mage does neither. So stop telling us that we must all be poorly specced/lack the right gear/not know how to work in a team or that we should be utilising our support skills. These are, and I hate to repeat myself, quite profoundly unintelligent attempts to avoid a fair rebalance. Rogues and warriors don't have to think for two seconds about their tactics or their teamwork, and even whilst us mages are doing all of those things intently we are still getting completely outmatched no matter the circumstances. Cut us a break would you. I like this game, but there are some rather unjustified things being said on this thread that are severely damaging my faith in its player base.

Discussion welcome, arguments not.

Then explain this to me if mages are under powered, then why are there mages running around CTF destroying every rogue warrior and mage with the best gear in sight? mages are owning CTF. i admit that wen it first came out, i was squishing mages beneath my feet, now people are actualy thinking things through and dominating with mages. a lot of people get cocky with there mages and even spawn kill now. does that sound under powered to you? And I'm not a bad player either. Mages make a great support class. a mage with a warrior is darn near unstoppable, 2 or 3 mages together is nearly unstoppable as well. Talk to some of the more successful mages at CFT and I'm sure they will agree that mages are NOT UNDERPOWERED. better yet how about the successful CFT mages comment

[devilevils]

Then explain this to me if mages are under powered, then why are there mages running around CTF destroying every rogue warrior and mage with the best gear in sight? mages are owning CTF. i admit that wen it first came out, i was squishing mages beneath my feet, now people are actualy thinking things through and dominating with mages. a lot of people get cocky with there mages and even spawn kill now. does that sound under powered to you? And I'm not a bad player either. Mages make a great support class. a mage with a warrior is darn near unstoppable, 2 or 3 mages together is nearly unstoppable as well. Talk to some of the more successful mages at CFT and I'm sure they will agree that mages are NOT UNDERPOWERED. better yet how about the successful CFT mages comment

Lol this man said mage owning the pvp its so so funny, even patrick no 1 leaderboard mage say in pvp mage was underpowered and lot of my friends sorc with an high end equip say so,come on bro open your eyes its for a good n fun game, i have a 21 rogue too but i realize thats somethings wrong with the balanced of class in pvp

[storrm]

Ok, so I feel compelled to collect here a listing of my favourite profoundly stupid arguments against sorcerers not being underpowered, you rogues and warriors can desperately duke it out over who deserves not to be nerfed, but some of the stuff I've seen posted here is just outright daft. And quite obviously unashamed attempts to weigh in against any sort of rebalance by undermining the intelligence of a huge section of players who are at a very obvious disadvantage.

- "Mages, learn to play your characters properly. You are balanced just fine it's just ALL of you must be retarded or something" (this argument it seems can be neatly subdivided into a few more specific claims):

- 'The mages talking are probably using weak *** gear man, noobs...' ACTUALLY the mages who have been talking about underpowered sorcs are mostly maxed, that means the top gear going. These are players who have most likely spent a lot of time and hard plat on their chars, don't undermine our hard work.
- (My personal favourite) 'You mages need to learn some strategy, try playing in a team. Noobs...' ACTUALLY have you ever tried this? Of course we try and play in teams, we desperately seek out friendlies to hide behind wherever possible but 1) Rogues and warriors don't give a damn about teamwork, they solo it all over the map because they can. If the other two classes aren't encouraged by game mechanics to stick to teams then it's a completely unfair ask to tell mages that we should maybe think about this little thing they call 'teamwork'. 2) Have you ever actually played a game of PvP? You spawn by yourself all over the map and are forced to wander blindly until you bump into some friends who you can keep up with (made impossible by the fact that both other classes have jump-to abilities) or some enemies who inevitably slay you.
- 'You mages clearly don't know how to build your chars, you've got all those cool knockdown and stun effects. Noobs...' ACTUALLY we don't, we just don't. A charged fireball spell is useful, yes. But our frost spell doesn't even cause an ememy to slow, so now I have to spec out my favourite spell just because it's inexplicably useless in PvP. I've not even seen my charged lightning deliver a stun yet, so I'm not even sure the 20% shot we get at that happening is working. Gale force can be a minor irritation to an enemy but when a warrior can instantly jump back to within 2cm of you and a rogue is still in range after you've knocked him back it kind of negates the usefulness of this spell. So a brief stun from a charged fireball, that's what we've got. Leading neatly into the next outrageously stupid thing I've heard posted up here.
- 'Mages are a support class dude, you shouldn't be expecting loads of kills or whatever it's not your job. Noobs...' ACTUALLY... are you serious, are you genuinely serious? Have you ever played a mage? We are a terrible support class. We have 4 spells that form our 'support' bracket, one is shield so not a support spell at all, one is curse which is completely ineffectual in PvP, one is heal which I'm sure might be useful for other players if it weren't for the fact that every class can heal and more effectively than we can (that warrior HP buff is obscene). And the last is clock, a nice idea but it drops where we stand and requires a charge to become worthwhile, whilst we're dropping a clock we've got warriors landing on our heads and rogues taking us down well out of range of our poxy little snare. I'm not saying clock couldn't be a bit useful, but one semi useful support skill does not make a support class. To put it simply - either a warrior or a rogue on it's own functions better as a support class than a mage. I'd be very interested to hear any sensible counter arguments to that.

A sub-division of 'mage' into perhaps a cleric and wizard class (one which possessed some unique and useful support skills and one which dealt solely with AoE, damage and some proper stun effects would fix this up. But at the moment we have the worst of both worlds, less damage than the rogue and a useless slew of support skills.

I'm not saying I expect to be able to tank, that's why I chose not to play a tank. But keeping your distance is a little difficult when you're outranged by rogues and warriors can close on you before you get a chance to charge a spell that would ultimately have no effect anyway. Mages need an overhaul, just look at us dev's, look at the sorry state of us.

To conclude - as many other sensible players have stated it is usually the case that the weakest class also deals the most damage/possesses the most powerful support skills. The mage does neither. So stop telling us that we must all be poorly specced/lack the right gear/not know how to work in a team or that we should be utilising our support skills. These are, and I hate to repeat myself, quite profoundly unintelligent attempts to avoid a fair rebalance. Rogues and warriors don't have to think for two seconds about their tactics or their teamwork, and even whilst us mages are doing all of those things intently we are still getting completely outmatched no matter the circumstances. Cut us a break would you. I like this game, but there are some rather unjustified things being said on this thread that are severely damaging my faith in its player base.

Discussion welcome, arguments not.

nice :)

[Tribalware]

you know what? that's a damn fine point actually. where are all of these successful ctf mages you seem so certain are dominating the arenas? they must all be away together at the annual 'successful ctf mage' conference because it baffles me that in 7 pages of discussion none of them have spoken up to voice how awesomely fair it is to be a mage right now. and I'd expected a couple of facetious warrior/rogue posts like that anyway just out of nerf fear.

I guild with genesis, you know... home to players like Patrick, the man with a million pve kills, shima, lesmiserables - all over the leaderboards. pros. in les' own words regarding mages in PvP - 'they get trashed'. so to be honest, having respecced a dozen times and partied with some great PvP teams, I'm still pretty confused as to where you are coming from with this. are you really that desperate to avoid a mage buff? everyone wants more for their class and less for everyone else's, fine, its only natural. but if the game stays like this people will leave.

once again - 'you obviously just aren't playing your class right' is one really dumb argument to make, and its insultung to the intelligence of every hard working mage player. 30 plat down on respecs, hours spent pvping with various team combos. when i start 'dominating' I'll let you know. scored 10 kills in one game once, that was my highlight. a warrior had 25 and a rogue 32. but I guess most of those kills could be attributed to my role as an awesome support specialist right? all of those useless clock drops I bet.

EDIT (hah, beaten to the punch):

Devilevils - Lol this man said mage owning the pvp its so so funny, even patrick no 1 leaderboard mage say in pvp mage was underpowered and lot of my friends sorc with an high end equip say so,come on bro open your eyes its for a good n fun game, i have a 21 rogue too but i realize thats somethings wrong with the balanced of class in pvp

[rkp71]

the warrior skill that sucks you back to them has way too long of range, wont even see them on my screen and all of a sudden i am getting sucked to them.

rogues and warriors zip all over the place WITH the flag and mages speed skill does nothing...

[Luigi Goyena Velasco]

23202
yea.. deacrease WR damage, decrease mage stun, decrease Rogue Aimshot.. Thats all. I made 57 kills in my 2nd pvp game.

[Zamao]

Ideas for PvP
1. You will get coins, if you kill somebody or captured the flag. For the coins you can buy PvP gear.
2. PvE and PvP skill tree, i skilled for PvE and i dont want to pay money everytime to change my skills.....

[nicoB]

you know what? that's a damn fine point actually. where are all of these successful ctf mages you seem so certain are dominating the arenas? they must all be away together at the annual 'successful ctf mage' conference because it baffles me that in 7 pages of discussion none of them have spoken up to voice how awesomely fair it is to be a mage right now. and I'd expected a couple of facetious warrior/rogue posts like that anyway just out of nerf fear.

I guild with genesis, you know... home to players like Patrick, the man with a million pve kills, shima, lesmiserables - all over the leaderboards. pros. in les' own words regarding mages in PvP - 'they get trashed'. so to be honest, having respecced a dozen times and partied with some great PvP teams, I'm still pretty confused as to where you are coming from with this. are you really that desperate to avoid a mage buff? everyone wants more for their class and less for everyone else's, fine, its only natural. but if the game stays like this people will leave.

once again - 'you obviously just aren't playing your class right' is one really dumb argument to make, and its insultung to the intelligence of every hard working mage player. 30 plat down on respecs, hours spent pvping with various team combos. when i start 'dominating' I'll let you know. scored 10 kills in one game once, that was my highlight. a warrior had 25 and a rogue 32. but I guess most of those kills could be attributed to my role as an awesome support specialist right? all of those useless clock drops I bet.

EDIT (hah, beaten to the punch):

Devilevils - Lol this man said mage owning the pvp its so so funny, even patrick no 1 leaderboard mage say in pvp mage was underpowered and lot of my friends sorc with an high end equip say so,come on bro open your eyes its for a good n fun game, i have a 21 rogue too but i realize thats somethings wrong with the balanced of class in pvp

I'm not afraid of a mage buff, nothing will change without something becoming game breaking. read other threads there are mages out there that say they do just fine. as long as there are different classes, someone will always be at a disadvantage, it will never be perfectly even unless everyone just switches to one class. theres always going to be an underdog

[Tribalware]

23202
yea.. deacrease WR damage, decrease mage stun, decrease Rogue Aimshot.. Thats all. I made 57 kills in my 2nd pvp game.

Ahh, so you must be one of these elusive mage pwners nicoB has been telling us are tearing the place up right? Surely, I mean they were bound to come out of the woodwork eventually. Or, wait a second, are you in fact not a mage? *Holds breath in sarcastic suspense*

[Tribalware]

I'm not afraid of a mage buff, nothing will change without something becoming game breaking. read other threads there are mages out there that say they do just fine. as long as there are different classes, someone will always be at a disadvantage, it will never be perfectly even unless everyone just switches to one class. theres always going to be an underdog

Absolutely, and in all honesty that's why I play the mage class. I like being weaker than other classes and having to compensate with clever positioning, smart tactics, thought out builds. But theres a difference between 'underdog' and what's going on now. I agree that things will never be perfectly balanced, I do not agree that a change can't be made that wouldn't result in 'game breaking', that's a ridiculous line of logic. 'Well the games broken now but we'd better not bother trying to do anything about it because it'll only end up broken some more'. You're essentially conceding that mages are underpowered but your argument is now more along the lines of 'but why bother doing anything about it, just the way things go sometimes'. As it stands sorcerers aren't underdogs, we're cats locked into a cage full of wolves. Underdog would be a step up.

[Lady_Pebbles]

Hellurr... I've posted here before but I need to get things straight...

I have a capped Mage with top gear. I've PvPed in many, many games including all StS games (my fav being DL). That being said, I know how to play and how to strategize with my team mates.

However, it seems the only way we can play as Mages is by moving into a group thats fighting and start shooting in hope that we can get a kill. One on one vs a Rogue depends on that Rogue's hp already being drained and the same for a Warrior. We are forced to hit and run. Problem is, we run and get one shot killed by Rogues with Aimed Shot and/or Piercer skills, even with Warriors Vengence and/or whatever skill they use that makes then do a spin with a hammer.

Its sad that we have to rely on the Shield skill to survive for a minimum amount of time in matches. The shield is also useless againsr two Warriors or Two opponents in general. Hell even Frost doesn't stun nor slow down enemies, Fire's knock back doesn't go through unless charged & even then it doesn't always knock them down. Yes it can be done but we are literally -forced- to use skills we don't want to use and they aren't even as effective as they are intended to be for PvP.

Our skills really need a distinct overhaul. I mean it feels like we're not even causing any damage just tickling them. -_-

Seriously, please work more on the balance issue.



EDIT: BTW I have a capped Rogue as well. It doesn't have full capped gear and still pwns... So I -know- they're OP.

[nicoB]

Absolutely, and in all honesty that's why I play the mage class. I like being weaker than other classes and having to compensate with clever positioning, smart tactics, thought out builds. But theres a difference between 'underdog' and what's going on now. I agree that things will never be perfectly balanced, I do not agree that a change can't be made that wouldn't result in 'game breaking', that's a ridiculous line of logic. 'Well the games broken now but we'd better not bother trying to do anything about it because it'll only end up broken some more'. You're essentially conceding that mages are underpowered but your argument is now more along the lines of 'but why bother doing anything about it, just the way things go sometimes'. As it stands sorcerers aren't underdogs, we're cats locked into a cage full of wolves. Underdog would be a step up.

My statement about achange being game breaking was made because unlike you and a few other people everyone wants to be a mage tank some reason they want it to be soo easy, playing as any other class isnt easy either why should mage be easy. By no means does my arguement mean "why do anything about it now just the way things are." I was simply responding to you asking me if I'm "that desperate to avoid a mage buff" whenever i play CTF i team up with a mage if there is one because there a lot better to run with than warriors or other rogues. mages make great teammates, which i believe is there current role in CTF which is a team effort since its not free for all deathmatch or 1vs1, if mages were as underpowerd as so many claim, i would just go solo.

[Erdnase]

I'm doing just fine in pvp and yes i'm a mage. At full life and mana, i can trash a warrior easily, and i'm 50/50 with rogue, les just hasn't met the right players yet. (and btw patrick uses hack so how is he anything to brag about? lol) Now i wouldn't go as far as to say that we r dominating the game at the moment, but i'm not going to say that we couldn't if we were all using the right skills. And if people want to be sore losers and leave the game, then let them, not to say that we couldn't have some change from how it is now, just don't be greedy and ask for ur class to be majorly juiced-up, thats just being childish.

[Energizeric]

After thinking about it more I think the main issue I'm finding is that in order to stun I must charge my fireball skill. The problem is that when warriors and rogues leap at me and surprise me, by the time I have time to charge any skill I am dead already. I think they need to cause Frost and Gale to properly stun as they do in PvE. Maybe not as extreme, but at least slow. Because in PvE I can use Frost without charging and it still causes the enemy to freeze. Charging only makes it AoE. I don't have Gale, but that should also result in pushing back the enemy a bit with a slight stun. This would give Mages at least a chance when a rogue comes rushing at us. We could stun them with a quick skill that does not need charging, and then could charge another skill to at least make it a fight.

[Erdnase]

agreed

[nicoB]

i Feel ok with my Mage, i hace faced several rogues 1 vs 1 and i kick their asses 90% of the time. With warriors is different, they take so much damage before u can make them run, so its a lil bit hard to kill 1, and to be honest a group of 2 or 3 warriors its almost imposible to beat.

Hes doing something right

[Tribalware]

My statement about achange being game breaking was made because unlike you and a few other people everyone wants to be a mage tank some reason they want it to be soo easy, playing as any other class isnt easy either why should mage be easy. By no means does my arguement mean "why do anything about it now just the way things are." I was simply responding to you asking me if I'm "that desperate to avoid a mage buff" whenever i play CTF i team up with a mage if there is one because there a lot better to run with than warriors or other rogues. mages make great teammates, which i believe is there current role in CTF which is a team effort since its not free for all deathmatch or 1vs1, if mages were as underpowerd as so many claim, i would just go solo.

Fair point, I suppose I should have been a bit more specific when I referred to a 'mage buff'. I'm willing to stick it out with my rubbish HP, I'm a tiny blue goblin it's not like I expected to have a sturdy constitution and I didn't even find that speccing for arcane shield did much to help with this so I don't see a HP buff doing much good either.

What I'm really getting at are some of the things mentioned briefly by Lady_Pebbles. On the one hand warrior and rogue skills sometimes work too well (bow range with swords, that grab and pull skill with the ridiculous range, perhaps aimed shot although I'm yet to be entirely convinced that's unfair), but most importantly our mage skills just don't work in PvP like they should. As mentioned above:

- Frost doesn't freeze, hell it doesn't even slow. There's something seriously wrong with that.
- Despite rogue/warrior abilities that let them zip all over the map, our only speed buff (from gale force which is a rubbish spell anyway) doesn't work in PvP. Why?
- Our fireball skill (our most useful PvP skill by a mile) doesn't always knock back/knock down like it should even when charged. Why?
- I've yet to see an enemy stunned by my lightning which should be doing so 20% of the time. Can't confirm this 100% but it seems to be missing.

If this is the case then the most useful aspects of ALL of our attack spells have been nerfed specifically for PvP, to hell with a HP buff I'd settle for my skills performing as they were intended to.

Essentially a warrior can reel me in whilst still out of my range or jump to me delivering an effective stun, then use that time to charge an AoE skill which decimates me and any other sorcs around before I've had a chance to charge a fireball whilst praying it does what it's supposed to and delivers a brief stun so I can run away. If a warrior is going to have better range (which makes no sense to me), better maneuverability, AoE damage, better stuns, insane hit points and armor AND a better healing buff than me, then I'd at least like the skills I have to work like they say they should. That would be a start.

We just have no niche at the moment, I spec for damage and do a lot of it when I'm able to. So I have a great time hiding behind a warrior and dealing out some pain, but PvP just doesn't work like that at the moment. You're forced to solo it half the time and as Lady_Pebbles points out this forces you to spec for skills you don't even want to use. I think anyone who wants to be a mage tank should start a tank, I just want my spells to work properly before I start trying to say warriors or rogues should have their stats nerfed or that mine should be buffed. I don't know enough to be making claims like that, but I do know that hurling a block of frozen ice at something should slow it down, and that as a wizard I should be able to hurl that magical icicle further than a warrior should be able to lampoon me with an axe before reeling me in like a fish and swirlying me to death with what is essentially an AoE spell while I'm stunned.

[Haowesie]

I respecced a bunch of times trying all sorts of things.

I maxed speed passive in one. Seems like it made no difference. Can u check?

Also, it's unfair others can use their skill while holding flag that allows then to move ahead quickly, but Mage speed boost skill is voided when carrying flag.

+1 ... I added heal to my skill sets because without the speed, I'd be dead or almost dead by the time I reach base. Mage needs speed, or please add a teleport skill :)

[Tribalware]

I'm doing just fine in pvp and yes i'm a mage. At full life and mana, i can trash a warrior easily, and i'm 50/50 with rogue, les just hasn't met the right players yet. (and btw patrick uses hack so how is he anything to brag about? lol) Now i wouldn't go as far as to say that we r dominating the game at the moment, but i'm not going to say that we couldn't if we were all using the right skills. And if people want to be sore losers and leave the game, then let them, not to say that we couldn't have some change from how it is now, just don't be greedy and ask for ur class to be majorly juiced-up, thats just being childish.

You can trash a warrior easily? What's your char's IGN because I insist on seeing that before I believe it, maybe you can teach me a thing or two hey? But seriously, if you're going to come on here saying that top players like les don't know what they're talking about and that Patrick uses hacks (which is a reeeeally bold thing to be saying unless you're 100% certain you're right) then you'd better be willing to back those big words up. I want to PvP team with you and watch you trash a warrior. My IGN is tribalware, add me. I have sweet gear, a dps of 273 and I've specced left right and centre, yet I have yet to boldly claim 'I just trashed a load of warriors in PvP'. In fact you're the only supposed mage I've ever heard say that. So, what's your IGN? I'd be more than happy to validate your claim here on the forums once I've seen you in action.

I am not asking for a major juice up, I'm asking for gale force to give me a speed buff (like it should), charged fireball to always cause knockdown (like it should) and freeze to... well freeze, or at least slow (like it should). That's what I'm asking for right now. That doesn't sound childish to me, unlike coming on here and bad-mouthing top players

[nicoB]

The extended range for axe throw and arrows is a glitch that people use by briefly moving into the minimum range of there skill just long enough to use it and then back up out of range of the other skills. some mqges do this with fireball aswell. onced any ranged skill is fired within minimun rang and it locks on target. it will literely follow across the map. One time i chadow pierced away from a fight and a axe came well out of range and pulles me all the way back to the warrior that used it, the same thing with fireball and arrows. All three of these skills can cut corners essentially moving through walls. so your fireball doesnt actually have shrter range

[nicoB]

If you want freeze like in pvp like it is in pvp, it would be OP because the freeze feom frost bolt lasts a pretty long time

[Rays364]

You know whats funny? Look on the pvp kills leaderboards. More than 2/3 of the people on there are rogues.

[Energizeric]

If you want freeze like in pvp like it is in pvp, it would be OP because the freeze feom frost bolt lasts a pretty long time

So make it shorter duration, or even just make it slow the enemy. But right now it does absolutely nothing except just a damage hit. There needs to be some way I can slow down or stop a rogue who is coming at me from a distance with that 1-hit blow that always kills me immediately, and it must be some skill I can use without charging since I don't have enough time to charge a skill.

[Tribalware]

fair enough, if freeze were to function in pvp like it does in pve then it might become overpowered, but we're entertaining hypotheticals. as it stands it is most definitely underpowered, they might as well rename it rock throw as all it does is damage. i can understand them removing the freeze, but not even adding a slow to it? i swear there are various warrior/rogue skills that slow me down and they obviously didn't get nerfed.

also point taken about the glitch but it is... well a glitch, meaning hopefully it'll get fixed. as it stands the range for axe throw is (i think?) 14m whereas the range for my fireball is 12m. assuming the game worked like it should and we didnt all have to mess around with exploits to get ahead, does that really seem fair? i would contend not.

much more importantly though I'm still waiting for a reply from Erdnase, I would politely request your IGN to confirm that 1) you're even a mage and 2) that you really can trash a warrior in PvP. my guild (home of patrick who you have accused of hacking, and les who you have accused of being ignorant) found the notion pretty laughable, so we are all waiting for you to put your money where your big blabby mouth is :) come on now... prove to us you're not just another warrior desperate not to get nerfed.

[nicoB]

Idk if the warrior just sucked or not but ive seen a mage trash a warrior with full hp and full demonlord while she was just wearing winter wonderland. i didnt even help her i just watched as she kicked this warriors butt. He even tried to run but it was in vain

[Tribalware]

Haha, sounds like a sight to behold. I'm not claiming a mage has never trashed a warrior, and boy would I be happy to hear that it happens more often. What I do cock my quizzical brow at is the idea that a mage can 'trash a warrior easily'. Erdnase says he does it all the time like it's nothing, all I've ever seen is warriors trashing mages and the only kills I get on warriors are from sneaking up behind an ongoing battle and zapping them to death while their hp is lowered and they aren't focused on me. That's a realistic tactic for mage vs. warrior. I just don't believe that a mage is capable of consistently soloing around a map and beating on warriors of equal build/gear strength.

Of course it happens every now and again, but without HP bars it's impossible to know what sort of state your enemy warrior was in when the battle started or whether or not they were out of mana etc. But I'm sure Erdnase will clear all of this up for us once we meet up for a chill in game and he lets me in on his warrior pwning secrets. Seriously, 10 bucks says he isn't even a mage. What sort of idiot goes around calling the top player (a mage at that) a hacker anyway? Not one I trust.

Anyway I'm going to back out of this thread a little I feel I'm going on a bit, I've made my points a good few times over and learned a lot from reading the opinions of others. Thanking you all kindly for your input and whatever the dev's decide to do I hope it works out best for the gaming community as a whole.

[rkp71]

as a mage when i get slowed then use gale to speed up i remain slowed, yet i see others classes fly all over the place after being stunned or slowed. same as when carrying flag, other classes zip around with flag, my gale speed does nothing.

[dakota1988]

again, free respecs.

[masteratarms]

My main character is a lvl 21 warrior and i keep getting dominated. So i got my lvl 20 rogue and was able to hold my own also i see some players using their pet but i am not able to use mine??

[yuriramos]

You know whats funny? Look on the pvp kills leaderboards. More than 2/3 of the people on there are rogues.
I did a survey too on the lb. Its infested by rogues. Now tell me this is not op.

[Itoopeo]

I have been playing warrior at lvl 17 in pvp and im able to kill almost every rogue i face. Key thing is to get shields on and spin. During spin charge normal attack and rogue is stunned after that skyward smash and rogue should be dead :)
Not too hard if you know what to do. Sorcerers are a bit weak because they die as fast as rogues and does low damage to me. Also if i run around with rogue, we can easily defeat 5 opponets coming to our flag gem room.

[Jimmeh]

I must post this here... Despite all the talk of imbalance. I can win most 1v1s, and many 1v2s.

I would argue that nobody can beat me 1v1... Accepting challenges.

I'm a sorc.

If you don't believe me, add me in game and let's play! :]

[Itoopeo]

I must post this here... Despite all the talk of imbalance. I can win most 1v1s, and many 1v2s.

I would argue that nobody can beat me 1v1... Accepting challenges.

I'm a sorc.

If you don't believe me, add me in game and let's play! :]
Whats your ign and level? I can farm you littlebit if you are something like level 17:)

[Icantcry]

L16 ctf feedback on rogues~

Rogues have an absolutely horrible amount mana. My mana is 385, most rogues have under that. Now, the thing is that we rogues can't fully fight/ defend flag because by the time we kill ONE person, we lose all mana and then were dead. We can't even last 3 fights...and don't get me started on mana regen, about 1/sec...

Suggestion: bump up mana and mana regen on L16 gear.

Actually ive pvped with a 16 rogue and its kinda true. I have shadow piercer, aimed shot and noxious bolt. They're really powerful and since there are only 3 skills i dont use much mana. Also they cause a lot of damage at once. But to counter that mana problem i put a lot of my points into the intelligence to raise my mana pool.

[Itoopeo]

L16 ctf feedback on rogues~

Rogues have an absolutely horrible amount mana. My mana is 385, most rogues have under that. Now, the thing is that we rogues can't fully fight/ defend flag because by the time we kill ONE person, we lose all mana and then were dead. We can't even last 3 fights...and don't get me started on mana regen, about 1/sec...

Suggestion: bump up mana and mana regen on L16 gear.

Actually ive pvped with a 16 rogue and its kinda true. I have shadow piercer, aimed shot and noxious bolt. They're really powerful and since there are only 3 skills i dont use much mana. Also they cause a lot of damage at once. But to counter that mana problem i put a lot of my points into the intelligence to raise my mana pool.
I play with lvl 9 rogue. 1/3 int 1/3 str 1/3 dex. Mana is low but regens fast, just sit in corner

[Genuinous]

Rogue 1 shot kills are seriously bad, but not impossible to overcome. Still could be nerfed. However the range on bow is absolutely ridiculous, making getting away (or hitting rogues from range) super difficult.

[Judahalmighty]

Like many have said before me, there is a huge imbalance in PvP combat. Rogues are hands down the best, even when they aren't maxed out. They are faster, can do more damage from further away, and have a much better chance of avoiding damage because of their ability to jump all the way across the screen. Not only does that make them the best killers, they also make the best flag runners for the same reason. Warriors come in a close second. They have tons of hitpoints, and can do a fair amount of damage in a short period of time. They also have the invulnerability shield for 2 seconds, which can really give them an advantage because most battles only last a few seconds. They can jump, but not as far, and they dont have the aimed shot, which makes them not quite as good as rogue, but okay nonetheless.
Now we get to sorcerers (that's me). SIGH.... Sorcerers are at a HUMONGOUS disadvantage to both warriors and rogues. Because most are maxed in intelligence, and we get sucky armor, sorcerers typically have very low health/armor compared to other classes. They usually make up for this by being able to do stuff like freeze enemies, knock them down with fireballs, stop them in a bubble of time, and being able to hit a whole group at once with these effects, not to mention the highest DPS possible. But in PvP combat, these "special effects" of the sorcerer powers have been severely weakened, players are mostly immune to our powers. I agree that being able to continuously freeze an enemy player would be hugely unfair, but you have not weakened the aimed shot or as far as I can tell any other abilities except mages. Since we have terrible health, lowest armor class, and are also the slowest of the 3 characters, there is very little chance of us getting the flag all the way across the map alive. If we could knock our opponents down with fireballs, stop them in time, or freeze them briefly, that would perhaps change things. I play this game enough to see the trends that follow an upgrade in content, and here is my prediction. After 2 weeks there will be very few if any sorcerer class players in PvP. The ones that stay will eventually get tired of getting their butts kicked and find something else to do. As For me im already tired of it, last time I played PvP I died 10 times, killed 0 enemies, and captured no flags. I have been able to get 4 flags across in maybe 15 games, and I have killed maybe a fifth as many people as I have been killed by. So yea, in conclusion, I think some revision would help.

[nicoB]

I did a survey too on the lb. Its infested by rogues. Now tell me this is not op.
just because rogues can effextivle steal kills by jumping in a fight while when the enemy is weak or firing a random arrow into a huge battle feom the side line doesnt make the class overpowered

[nicoB]

As a rogue its rare for me to beat a mage in a 1on1 fight the stun and shield makes you guys unstoppable. You guys just complain because you want to be able to go on a rampage without dyind. all the classea are balanced. rogue kill warriors, mages kill rogues, and warriors kill mages, that sounds balanced to me given the fact that CTF is a team based game

[yuriramos]

just because rogues can effextivle steal kills by jumping in a fight while when the enemy is weak or firing a random arrow into a huge battle feom the side line doesnt make the class overpowered

ok. Rogues are so weak that they get the most kills all the time. You win.

[nicoB]

ok. Rogues are so weak that they get the most kills all the time. You win.

weak class equals a lot of power. Same with mages...they actually do more damge except for aimed shot. mages destroy rogues but you dont see any rogues complaining about it. if it wasnt for aimed shot mages would dominate rogues. right now it nice and even. most of my come feom mages. Theres a lot of mahes that would agree that mages arent underpowered

[devilevils]

weak class equals a lot of power. Same with mages...they actually do more damge except for aimed shot. mages destroy rogues but you dont see any rogues complaining about it. if it wasnt for aimed shot mages would dominate rogues. right now it nice and even. most of my come feom mages. Theres a lot of mahes that would agree that mages arent underpowered

Lol its so funny, mage destroy rogue ? So why lot of sorc complaining here bro ? Are u scared if the pvp is balancing ? Cz u talk alot of **** here using mage name, i know u rogue dont be selfish brother, cz im also a rogue n a sorc too, this gamee is made for fun but when there is no fun anymore there will be complain by the underpowered class

[devilevils]

As a rogue its rare for me to beat a mage in a 1on1 fight the stun and shield makes you guys unstoppable. You guys just complain because you want to be able to go on a rampage without dyind. all the classea are balanced. rogue kill warriors, mages kill rogues, and warriors kill mages, that sounds balanced to me given the fact that CTF is a team based game

If its rare for u too beat mage in 1on1 my suggest try look at your eq, stat n skill and your gameplay bro dont make a joke likethis here... im a rogue too and id love to hunt sorc by1 in pvp just 1shoot +1hit n die lmao

[yuriramos]

weak class equals a lot of power. Same with mages...they actually do more damge except for aimed shot.
Its the aimed shot skill that mainly makes the rogues op. Come on, one hit kill with a ridiculous range, theres just no talent and skill in it. You say mages own rogue but rogues not complainin? Thats because it happens rarely.

[yuriramos]

weak class equals a lot of power. Same with mages...they actually do more damge except for aimed shot.
Its the aimed shot skill that mainly makes the rogues op. Come on, one hit kill with a ridiculous range, theres just no talent and skill in it. You say mages own rogue but rogues not complainin? Thats because it happens rarely.

[GANGWAR]

lvl 21 fully geared Rogue can easly kill lvl 21 fully gear sorcerer

1 aimed shot 2 speed hit and sorcerer dead lol

rogue can kill mage, warrior easly but mage cant kill rogue and warrior fast

and m not talking about noobs lol

[masteratarms]

Can any of y'all use your pets b.c I see some playing with theirs but I can't also have any of you had problems with controls getting stuck or is it just me

[nicoB]

I dont need to spec i kill more warriors than mages all day,in fact. most of my kills come from warriors and other rogues my build is fine. maybe you guys arent playing very good mages. When i get hit with the firball stun I'm stuned long enough for them kill me more beore it wears off. happens quite a lot. i dont mind since i can one shot them once in a while. with right skill set amd build mages can do just fine (need free respecs). any mage that can respec should be using the sheild, its the most effective skill by far. reduces aimed shot dmg to 100-130. I fires a aimed shot at a magee with the shield up just to see wat happens and i crited 130 dmg. Whenever i play CTF i team up with a mage if theres one on my team rather than another rogue or warrior because mages make the best teammates. if mages are sooo underpowered like a lot you say, then i would just go solo. I'm not afraid of a balance or buff or watever you wana call it. I'm just annoyed by some of the people that want to constantly whine. We beed free respecs for the people who cant or dont buy enough plat to try different builds. I'm telling man, get it right and your mage will destroy. ive been playin pvp since it came out and ive seen a lot of mages make a lot of progress deom getting squished to chopping down rogues and warriors

[nicoB]

lvl 21 fully geared Rogue can easly kill lvl 21 fully gear sorcerer

1 aimed shot 2 speed hit and sorcerer dead lol

rogue can kill mage, warrior easly but mage cant kill rogue and warrior fast

and m not talking about noobs lol

I cant do that anymore lol unless a mage runs out of mana, but its the same wen a rogue runs out of mana aswell. as a rogue its easier to kill other rogues than it is to kill mage

[Energizeric]

What would be useful is if you could look at the list of character's names and see a little symbol next to each name telling you which class each person is. I waste a lot of time because I don't know this. If I could just tell by looking then I would know which games to play and which to leave immediately. Not interested in playing a team of 5 that has more than 2 rogues.

[yuriramos]

I dont need to spec i kill more warriors than mages all day,in fact. most of my kills come from warriors and other rogues my build is fine. maybe you guys arent playing very good mages. When i get hit with the firball stun I'm stuned long enough for them kill me more beore it wears off. happens quite a lot. i dont mind since i can one shot them once in a while. with right skill set amd build mages can do just fine (need free respecs). any mage that can respec should be using the sheild, its the most effective skill by far. reduces aimed shot dmg to 100-130. I fires a aimed shot at a magee with the shield up just to see wat happens and i crited 130 dmg. Whenever i play CTF i team up with a mage if theres one on my team rather than another rogue or warrior because mages make the best teammates. if mages are sooo underpowered like a lot you say, then i would just go solo. I'm not afraid of a balance or buff or watever you wana call it. I'm just annoyed by some of the people that want to constantly whine. We beed free respecs for the people who cant or dont buy enough plat to try different builds. I'm telling man, get it right and your mage will destroy. ive been playin pvp since it came out and ive seen a lot of mages make a lot of progress deom getting squished to chopping down rogues and warriors



Kills more warriors than mage. You have amazing lying skills. Everybody is saying the same thing here and you keep defending rogues. You are obviously just protecting your class from being nerfed.

[Erdnase]

I agree

[Rays364]

I must post this here... Despite all the talk of imbalance. I can win most 1v1s, and many 1v2s.

I would argue that nobody can beat me 1v1... Accepting challenges.

I'm a sorc.

If you don't believe me, add me in game and let's play! :]
I beat you yesterday with my sorcerer 1 vs 1 :)

[Rays364]

weak class equals a lot of power. Same with mages...they actually do more damge except for aimed shot. mages destroy rogues but you dont see any rogues complaining about it. if it wasnt for aimed shot mages would dominate rogues. right now it nice and even. most of my come feom mages. Theres a lot of mahes that would agree that mages arent underpowered

Rogues are overpowered the only people i seen that think rogues are balanced are people lowered than lvl 20 and Rogues themselves since they don't want their precious overpowered class to be nerfed.

[Tribalware]

I dont need to spec i kill more warriors than mages all day,in fact. most of my kills come from warriors and other rogues my build is fine. maybe you guys arent playing very good mages. When i get hit with the firball stun I'm stuned long enough for them kill me more beore it wears off. happens quite a lot. i dont mind since i can one shot them once in a while. with right skill set amd build mages can do just fine (need free respecs). any mage that can respec should be using the sheild, its the most effective skill by far. reduces aimed shot dmg to 100-130. I fires a aimed shot at a magee with the shield up just to see wat happens and i crited 130 dmg. Whenever i play CTF i team up with a mage if theres one on my team rather than another rogue or warrior because mages make the best teammates. if mages are sooo underpowered like a lot you say, then i would just go solo. I'm not afraid of a balance or buff or watever you wana call it. I'm just annoyed by some of the people that want to constantly whine. We beed free respecs for the people who cant or dont buy enough plat to try different builds. I'm telling man, get it right and your mage will destroy. ive been playin pvp since it came out and ive seen a lot of mages make a lot of progress deom getting squished to chopping down rogues and warriors

"You guys are just bad mages, it must be your lack of strategy and not a class imbalance that's responsible for all of you complaining" - See page 7 for my breakdown of this tiring and laughably unfair argument.

You've got a lot of people, (honest rogues mostly as well) telling you to give it up man. You guys are too powerful and we don't even get the 'slow' effect from our frost bolts. Shield is marginally useful but doesn't make a whole lot of difference. Warriors need a nerf, I shouldn't be able to chase one with the flag hurling all my damage spells at it for half the map without being able to make a kill. Note: I play a good mage, 273dps and I've dropped 30 plat on recpecs so far, a lot of us have.

Also, did it occur to any of the few rogues justifying your insane powers with the "we run out of mana fast" argument that you might want to find a mage to team up with who can keep replenishing it for you? I've seen this a lot as well - "you mages aren't underpowered you just need to learn to work in teams". Well that might be easier if you guys weren't so intent on soloing all over the map at twice our speed. As it is I'm ditching heal, it was only really useful for backing up rogues with the mana buffs but they never stick around and even with shield the fights never usually lasted long enough for me to have time to heal myself.

[wvhills]

I'm a rogue and at first I thought we were over powered but I no longer think that. I think rogues are by far the easiest to play so there are more "good" rogues than warriors or mages. I tread more lightly around warriors than I do rogues now, however. At first there were only a few warriors who had their classes figured out but now there are more and more of them. There are 3 or 4 that don't seem to be hurt at all by 4 or 5 aimed shots and by then they stun and kill me.

Soreceres are good to but in a different way. They help a lot by healing health and mana both and knocking down/stunning enemies. I personally don't have a problem with this. If you start adding fire power to their skills now they will end up like they are in pocket legends- high powered dreadnaughts that can heal and stun/freeze.

I understand everyone wants to get kills but the classes in pvp have roles just as they do in pve. Play long enough and do good at your role and it won't matter whether or not u have a pretty kdr, people will recognize you by your reputation.

[nicoB]

"You guys are just bad mages, it must be your lack of strategy and not a class. imbalance that's responsible for all of you complaining" - See page 7 for my breakdown of this tiring and laughably unfair argument.

You've got a lot of people, (honest rogues mostly as well) telling you to give it up man. You guys are too powerful and we don't even get the 'slow' effect from our frost bolts. Shield is marginally useful but doesn't make a whole lot of difference. Warriors need a nerf, I shouldn't be able to chase one with the flag hurling all my damage spells at it for half the map without being able to make a kill. Note: I play a good mage, 273dps and I've dropped 30 plat on recpecs so far, a lot of us have.

Also, did it occur to any of the few rogues justifying your insane powers with the "we run out of mana fast" argument that you might want to find a mage to team up with who can keep replenishing it for you? I've seen this a lot as well - "you mages aren't underpowered you just need to learn to work in teams". Well that might be easier if you guys weren't so intent on soloing all over the map at twice our speed. As it is I'm ditching heal, it was only really useful for backing up rogues with the mana buffs but they never stick around and even with shield the fights never usually lasted long enough for me to have time to heal myself.

work with a mage whenever i play. never once did i say rogues arent overpowered. my argument has been that mages arent underpowered. and they dont need more power pumped into there skills and stats. quote me if you find me saying that. i dont like getting one shoted by other rogues either lol
wats your in game name I'll play with you

[nicoB]

Kills more warriors than mage. You have amazing lying skills. Everybody is saying the same thing here and you keep defending rogues. You are obviously just protecting your class from being nerfed.

Haha I'm not lying about that, all it takes is some stuns and a warrior is as good as dead. there easy to get close to and easy to keep your distance from. and since there are usually more warriors on a team than mages, it makes sence right. you call me a liar without knowing the truth.

[Xman]

Haha I'm not lying about that, all it takes is some stuns and a warrior is as good as dead. there easy to get close to and easy to keep your distance from. and since there are usually more warriors on a team than mages, it makes sence right. you call me a liar without knowing the truth.

Mages aren't underpowered? oh we're all noobs and only you know the truth, good argument.
If mages could ever done the same damage as Rogue so it would be true that "some stuns and a warrior is as good as dead".
If mage could ever run as fast as rogue so it would be true that "there easy to get close to and easy to keep your distance from".

[Tribalware]

One thing I would like to stress having been experiencing it a lot recently is that warriors should not have the ability to buff their hp like that.

1) Because it undermines the usefulness of having a mage around at all and -
2) Because I can sink over 3000 mana at what is now 276dps into the back of a warrior as he strolls to his base with the flag and not be able to kill him. Halfway through he just buffs hp and doesn't even need to turn around to kill me until he's dropped off the flag. I'm not exaggerating either, this has happened a couple of times this morning alone. If I can't take down a warrior with everything I have while he isn't even engaging me in combat then what is my approach to fighting them supposed to be.

In sum - the last thing the warrior class needs in PvP (on top of that horrific stack of HP and armor) is an insanely effective heal skill. Since when were warriors supposed to be healers anyway? Or stun artists, AoE specialists, long ranged assault masters. If mages aren't underpowered then warriors and rogues are most definitely overpowered by default. We've had the best perks from all of our damage spells nerfed and our support skills are done the same but better by a freaking barbarian. Magic is apparently super easy to pick up in the land of... Wherever this game is supposed to be set.

[JuiceBox]

I'm a well geared Mage. You can also find me in game as JuiceBox.

If you've played with me or against me, you would know that I have an understanding how to play my class.

The problems I see is mages survivabiltiy. We are easily 1 or 2 shotted by rogues and easily crowd controlled by warriors.

Shield is a must have for pvp. It's our bread and butter to survive. The only reliable crowd control we have is fireball.

Our damage is just right. But to make us on par with the other classes is to reduce our cool downs, increase our range, and fix the effects for our skills. It's rediculous that a warrior has better stuns and snares than mages.

How can I be a better team player when the warrior can heal his health, his mana, and do aoe snares (whirlwind) and dps fast travel (sky hammer). Not to mention all his other skills.

Or a rogue who doesn't need anything but charged aimed shot to make a kill.

To make a kill for a Mage. I have to be a pianist with all the skills I need to burst down an equally geared opponent and even then he is not dead yet.

My dps is at minimum 243. And when specced with int passive around 260 no pet. Health around 1500.

[Pulenski]

I'm a well geared Mage. You can also find me in game as JuiceBox.

If you've played with me or against me, you would know that I have an understanding how to play my class.

The problems I see is mages survivabiltiy. We are easily 1 or 2 shotted by rogues and easily crowd controlled by warriors.

Shield is a must have for pvp. It's our bread and butter to survive. The only reliable crowd control we have is fireball.

Our damage is just right. But to make us on par with the other classes is to reduce our cool downs, increase our range, and fix the effects for our skills. It's rediculous that a warrior has better stuns and snares than mages.

How can I be a better team player when the warrior can heal his health, his mana, and do aoe snares (whirlwind) and dps fast travel (sky hammer). Not to mention all his other skills.

Or a rogue who doesn't need anything but charged aimed shot to make a kill.

To make a kill for a Mage. I have to be a pianist with all the skills I need to burst down an equally geared opponent and even then he is not dead yet.

My dps is at minimum 243. And when specced with int passive around 260 no pet. Health around 1500.

I second this, especially the point of how warrior is a more effective team player / supporter than Sorc. Should warrior really be a more effective healer and snarer than Sorc?

[wvhills]

Devs- I'm sure your heart is in the right place when making threads like this but imo you guys need to just spend time in game playing pvp and get an idea of it for yourselfs. Threads like this just end up being whine fests and arguements where everyone who comments has an agenda to get/keep their class on top.

[nicoB]

Mages aren't underpowered? oh we're all noobs and only you know the truth, good. argument.
If mages could ever done the same damage as Rogue so it would be true that "some stuns and a warrior is as good as dead".
If mage could ever run as fast as rogue so it would be true that "there easy to get close to and easy to keep your distance from".

Wow dude i didnt even say that, try having civilised conversation instead of ridiculing some one for something he i didnt say. As for the rest of your statement i was talking about rogues not mages so yes it is true

[Tribalware]

Devs- I'm sure your heart is in the right place when making threads like this but imo you guys need to just spend time in game playing pvp and get an idea of it for yourselfs. Threads like this just end up being whine fests and arguements where everyone who comments has an agenda to get/keep their class on top.

Yeah that's a stunning incite there and thanks for your active participation. Oh no wait what I meant was posts like this are a waste of time and clearly not what the official class balance thread was created for. I'm sure dev's are playing the game, they should be anyway, but it seems to me like this is also a pretty useful medium for discussion.

If every class is out for themselves in equal measure explain to me the blindingly obvious trends that we see running through this entire thread? Of course you're going to get people saying things selfishly to protect their own class but when 95% of the mages are screaming 'help' and even a large section of the rogues are saying 'yeah... in all honesty we are a bit overpowered' then that's useful feedback. Isn't it? Perhaps there's a good reason a lot of players are whining, it's new PvP in beta, whining about all the imperfections is inevitable and often productive. No need to listen to any one idiot on here, but take a good cross section of opinions and you might find something close enough to the truth to be worth reading.

[Uzii]

My first post here so...

First to say im a rouge but my k/d is not impressive at all. fights in ctf last only few sec and headsots r quite annoying thers no fight at all any chance to defend urself. was sniped few times too as i sniped ppl too. so i think longer fights would be nice as u need to think more. fight between rouges depend on every second and one missed shot means dead. thats chalenge i admit but now with no rotable camera is no good bc im dead without even see the coming danger. rouges r low on hp and mana so if their skills would be nerfed they should get more hp and mana to use more skills and last longer in fight. right now when im stunned over an over by mage or warrior using that whirly skill + normal attack which seems ridiculous bc its like elephant smahing a fly which lost its wings. rouges kill fast but die fast too... rouge without mana is dead rouge
Must say that mages r realy in disadvantage here. 1-2 shots they dead. they must put more thinking in skill build and strategy. however pt of 3 mages using skills effective wipe out everything on way as i witnessed. but still think they need to have higher survability to last longer then 1-2 shots. they r now just light objects for farming kills. was in a game where a rouge and warrior pt up together just kill mages in respawn point over and over they dont care abt flag iwas in same team as them but i was trying to score couldnt participate in that masacre. and was especialy sad bc that ppl were on lb and even on my frend list... i know some mages i would not go against but hearing them saying they suck it must be done something abt mages for sure.
and warriors.. some r easy to kill but most of them r not. if they use right skills healing and mana regen they r undefeatable. was called a running noob when i runed away from warrior using that whirling skill and killed him with bow skills but if he usd healing he would have killed me.. was surprised he does not. but only chance to kill warrior is from distance and does not work everytime as warriors have skills that can bring opponent to them dealing also nice dmg and stun so im dead. even fiering 5 aimed shots not only uncharched but also charged after few uncharged cant kill them and pt of 2 and more warriors is realy like a wall shielding and healing each other group of full rouges cant win. warrior can easily wiped out 3 ppl attaking him. and whats strange warriors normal attack can hit me even when im in distance from him skills kill trough corners or wall too. i usualy leave when thers 3 warriors in other team its meaningles to fight especialy in ur team r only rouges and mages. even when i go together with mage he runs away as he uses stunts but i still think he will suport me so i rush but he does not...
maybe better teamwork will sort things out as group with suporting mages and dmg dealing rouges can defeat team with 2 tanks but with group of random ppl its just not always teamwork and as someone already said here running from respw point alone to group u can encounter many dangerous situations so mages can have problem to make it alive to the team.
free respec is very needed as ppl dont have possibility to test builds so they can do better. many ppl didnt buy plat so it can realy help them. but seems many ppl playing sorcerers alredy spend a lot of plat to test builds and still is not much fun for them in ctf...
i dont know if ill be playing pvp much its just not my cup of caffe but from time to time.. who knows
so thats my toughts sorry for any mistakes i did and my not good english

[nicoB]

One thing I would like to stress having been. experiencing it a lot recently is that warriors should not have the ability to buff their hp like that.

1) Because it undermines the usefulness of having a mage around at all and -
2) Because I can sink over 3000 mana at what is now 276dps into the back of a warrior as he strolls to his base with the flag and not be able to kill him. Halfway through he just buffs hp and doesn't even need to turn around to kill me until he's dropped off the flag. I'm not exaggerating either, this has happened a couple of times this morning alone. If I can't take down a warrior with everything I have while he isn't even engaging me in combat then what is my approach to fighting them supposed to be.

In sum - the last thing the warrior class needs in PvP (on top of that horrific stack of HP and armor) is an insanely effective heal skill. Since when were warriors supposed to be healers anyway? Or stun artists, AoE specialists, long ranged assault masters. If mages aren't underpowered then warriors and rogues are most definitely overpowered by default. We've had the best perks from all of our damage spells nerfed and our support skills are done the same but better by a freaking barbarian. Magic is apparently super easy to pick up in the land of... Wherever this game is supposed to be set.

Very true. maybe they shouldn't have the horn shield in pvp or at least make the cool down longer. skywardsmash doesnt need a stun affect and can anyone tell me why a warrior has so much range with a sword? like the war might as well be throw his sword at me the range is ridiculous

[yuriramos]

Idealy, a 3class balance should work like rock paper scissors imo. No single class should have everything. Dev should work with ranged skills. Warriors shouldnt be able to move fast with that jumping skill, and shouldnt have long range skills. Mages are easy to kill and should make up by making it the class with better range and must not equal any other class' range. Aimed shot must be nerfed because 1hit kill is just ridiculous.

[jlinder2003]

The skills/stats required for PvE are far different from PvP. Can we get a loadout option to have 2 different setups related to skills/stats that we can switch between? I never see anyone using shield in PvE, but it appears to be required in PvP. Either you are good at one, but not the other. It would be more enjoyable to be good at both PvE and PvP.

Some non-PvP players may like this as well to allow flexibility depending on which map they are playing.

[nicoB]

My first post here so...

First to say im a rouge but my k/d is not impressive at all. fights in ctf last only few sec and headsots r quite annoying thers no fight at all any chance to defend urself. was sniped few times too as i sniped ppl too. so i think longer fights would be nice as u need to think more. fight between rouges depend on every second and one missed shot means dead. thats chalenge i admit but now with no rotable camera is no good bc im dead without even see the coming danger. rouges r low on hp and mana so if their skills would be nerfed they should get more hp and mana to use more skills and last longer in fight. right now when im stunned over an over by mage or warrior using that whirly skill + normal attack which seems ridiculous bc its like elephant smahing a fly which lost its wings. rouges kill fast but die fast too... rouge without mana is dead rouge
Must say that mages r realy in disadvantage here. 1-2 shots they dead. they must put more thinking in skill build and strategy. however pt of 3 mages using skills effective wipe out everything on way as i witnessed. but still think they need to have higher survability to last longer then 1-2 shots. they r now just light objects for farming kills. was in a game where a rouge and warrior pt up together just kill mages in respawn point over and over they dont care abt flag iwas in same team as them but i was trying to score couldnt participate in that masacre. and was especialy sad bc that ppl were on lb and even on my frend list... i know some mages i would not go against but hearing them saying they suck it must be done something abt mages for sure.
and warriors.. some r easy to kill but most of them r not. if they use right skills healing and mana regen they r undefeatable. was called a running noob when i runed away from warrior using that whirling skill and killed him with bow skills but if he usd healing he would have killed me.. was surprised he does not. but only chance to kill warrior is from distance and does not work everytime as warriors have skills that can bring opponent to them dealing also nice dmg and stun so im dead. even fiering 5 aimed shots not only uncharched but also charged after few uncharged cant kill them and pt of 2 and more warriors is realy like a wall shielding and healing each other group of full rouges cant win. warrior can easily wiped out 3 ppl attaking him. and whats strange warriors normal attack can hit me even when im in distance from him skills kill trough corners or wall too. i usualy leave when thers 3 warriors in other team its meaningles to fight especialy in ur team r only rouges and mages. even when i go together with mage he runs away as he uses stunts but i still think he will suport me so i rush but he does not...
maybe better teamwork will sort things out as group with suporting mages and dmg dealing rouges can defeat team with 2 tanks but with group of random ppl its just not always teamwork and as someone already said here running from respw point alone to group u can encounter many dangerous situations so mages can have problem to make it alive to the team.
free respec is very needed as ppl dont have possibility to test builds so they can do better. many ppl didnt buy plat so it can realy help them. but seems many ppl playing sorcerers alredy spend a lot of plat to test builds and still is not much fun for them in ctf...
i dont know if ill be playing pvp much its just not my cup of caffe but from time to time.. who knows
so thats my toughts sorry for any mistakes i did and my not good english

You make some very good points. this is constructive feedback

[D-Zaak]

Admiteddly, I am a rogue, so take my opinion however you like.

All the mages on here complaining that Rogues are overpowered need to chillax. There's enough rogues on here who can't kill a Warrior over an entire map.
Rogues aren't overpowered, mages are just underpowered. A mage's point of view may see rogues 1 or 2 shotting them, but keep in mind most rogues that kill you usually die a few seconds later because they have no more MP left. Rogue is a high risk high reward class, and that does not make them overpowered if they can die just as easily as they can kill.

i do however agree that mages are weak and need to be stronger. Here's my breakdown of each class and what needs to be done.


Rogues - are just right and don't need to be change. Yes they are damage dealers, but they need this upside since they have low hp and mp. What else do we have if we can't deal high damage? We'd be a useless class.

Mages - need to be made stronger through their skills. HP does not need to be increased, instead they're heal needs to cost less mana or give mages faster mana regen than other classes. Their AoE attacks need to be very strong, however make them cost more or give them long cool down times to balance out very strong attacks.

Warriors - need to seriously be nerfed. Minimise their support skills. A tank class really shouldn't have the ability to heal. What do they need it for? This makes mage redundant, which is unfair. Warrior should have the slowest mana regen of all classes since they have higher MP than rogues. One more thing, something needs to be done to minimise their sky hammer skill. Tanks aren't meant to move that fast. I can be out of arrow range and they can use sky hammer to jump me and kill me in 1 or 2 hits.

[yuriramos]

Admiteddly, I am a rogue, so take my opinion however you like.

All the mages on here complaining that Rogues are overpowered need to chillax. There's enough rogues on here who can't kill a Warrior over an entire map.
Rogues aren't overpowered, mages are just underpowered. A mage's point of view may see rogues 1 or 2 shotting them, but keep in mind most rogues that kill you usually die a few seconds later because they have no more MP left. Rogue is a high risk high reward class, and that does not make them overpowered if they can die just as easily as they can kill.

i do however agree that mages are weak and need to be stronger. Here's my breakdown of each class and what needs to be done.


Rogues - are just right and don't need to be change. Yes they are damage dealers, but they need this upside since they have low hp and mp. What else do we have if we can't deal high damage? We'd be a useless class.

Mages - need to be made stronger through their skills. HP does not need to be increased, instead they're heal needs to cost less mana or give mages faster mana regen than other classes. Their AoE attacks need to be very strong, however make them cost more or give them long cool down times to balance out very strong attacks.

Warriors - need to seriously be nerfed. Minimise their support skills. A tank class really shouldn't have the ability to heal. What do they need it for? This makes mage redundant, which is unfair. Warrior should have the slowest mana regen of all classes since they have higher MP than rogues. One more thing, something needs to be done to minimise their sky hammer skill. Tanks aren't meant to move that fast. I can be out of arrow range and they can use sky hammer to jump me and kill me in 1 or 2 hits.

You have some good points here, especially the warrior part but there shouldnt be a skill that can instantly kill a full hp class. Aimed shot should be nerfed period.
I dont mind rogues owning mages close range because thats how it should be. Now what mages can do is avoid being at close range but with the rogues aimed shot and warriors skyhammer, theres just no hope for the frogs. Even a running mage with gale boost can be chased down by a warrior or hit by an arrow god knows where its coming from.

[Vystirch]

@D-Zaak well said I agree. Also stuns on all attacks that stun are a bit long....

[Arsies]

"You guys are just bad mages, it must be your lack of strategy and not a class imbalance that's responsible for all of you complaining"

So True!

+1

If there's an imbalance in pvp it's just a small one

First of all you peeps should learn how to play your class and following some simple rules in pvp, like never walking alone.

And respec to get rid of your PvE build before going to complain ;)

[D-Zaak]

@yuriramos - fair enough regarding aimed shot. It make life a little to easy for a rogue like me. The beauty of Aimed Shot in PvE is the ability to stack crits over several shots. I find it quite fun building crit up (it's like painting a picture where your paint is damage, and your brush strokes are DPS). In PvP, strong aimed shot stops rogues from artfully building up their crit. We have to be so careful though with low HP.

[D-Zaak]

I just came up with a cool idea that would make the mages happy while keeping rogues feeling useful if they have lower damage.

First of all, Rogues such as myself are getting offended about being targeted to be nerfed because we feel that killing quickly is the only thing we really have. Yes we annoy the hell out of mages, but take away our DPS and we are nothing. Why not give us something else to be good at in the realm of CTF?

Here's my proposal:

Nerf aimed shot to half it's current damage but give rogues better opportunity to stack the crit up over time if they wish.
Considerably improve rogues dodging ability so they can survive with their new nerfed attacks.
Considerably improve movement speed.

What do these 3 changes do?
Allows a rogue to still deal damage by stacking up crits, but we cannot kill as quickly, meaning mages can survive.
Makes rogues a great flag carrier class due to high dodge and movement speed (think of a scout class in many FPS games like the old team fortress).

This also gives us 2 distinct flag carrier styles. Fast dodging (rogue) or slow surviving (warrior). Mages will never be great for flag carrying. They are perfect to support the carrier and keep them alive.

[Vystirch]

I just came up with a cool idea that would make the mages happy while keeping rogues feeling useful if they have lower damage.

First of all, Rogues such as myself are getting offended about being targeted to be nerfed because we feel that killing quickly is the only thing we really have. Yes we annoy the hell out of mages, but take away our DPS and we are nothing. Why not give us something else to be good at in the realm of CTF?

Here's my proposal:

Nerf aimed shot to half it's current damage but give rogues better opportunity to stack the crit up over time if they wish.
Considerably improve rogues dodging ability so they can survive with their new nerfed attacks.
Considerably improve movement speed.

What do these 3 changes do?
Allows a rogue to still deal damage by stacking up crits, but we cannot kill as quickly, meaning mages can survive.
Makes rogues a great flag carrier class due to high dodge and movement speed (think of a scout class in many FPS games like the old team fortress).

This also gives us 2 distinct flag carrier styles. Fast dodging (rogue) or slow surviving (warrior). Mages will never be great for flag carrying. They are perfect to support the carrier and keep them alive.

Nope absolutely not in favor......
Rogues are fine as they are other classes need help.

[nicoB]

Ok this is jist a hlepful tip not meant to start an argument bur just giving some information on wat hinders my rogues killing ability the most. definitely use the shield. and the shiled definitely seems to last longer than 2 seconds. When i encounter a mage with the shield up, i hae one of 2 options. try to attack him anyway and die or run away if i swe him before he sees me and attack wen it wears off. wen a mage uses fireball stun and throws up the shield while I'm stuned i might as well give up on attacking. I think its very helpful for mages. the only thing more annoying than a group of warriors shield buffing each is a mage with the shield up. Past that tough shell is a soft squishy center lol and becase this i rush them anyway, just somethimes. But 90% of the time it doesnt work

[Tribalware]

So True!

+1

If there's an imbalance in pvp it's just a small one

First of all you peeps should learn how to play your class and following some simple rules in pvp, like never walking alone.

And respec to get rid of your PvE build before going to complain ;)

A 'SMALL' imbalance he says, HAH. It's either sheer ignorance or incredible gaul you've got saying something like that.

Apparently wherever you're from they don't have sarcasm, that line you quoted me on was a satirical jab at every laughably unfair argument you rogues come out with to try and tell us that we (implying ALL of the mages in the game) are just not thinking enough about our class builds or strategy. You my friend are an idiot and I'll once again refer you to page 7 of this thread for my thorough breakdown of just why you're an idiot.

We've bought the best gear, we've re-specced and re-adjusted. We've learned never to solo (even though it's impossible not to solo a lot of the time) and we've done all of the other obvious common sense stuff you seem to think we are missing. We are STILL at a drastic disadvantage. If you don't want your class nerfed fine go ahead and think up some lame argument for that, but don't have the balls to sit there and tell me that my class is doing just fine because believe me we are not.

Some great points made about the warrior build recently as well. 1) Why does hammer smash deal stun? It shouldn't, especially if a frost bolt from a mage doesn't even cause a slow. 2) Why do tanks have the best healing skill in the game? They shouldnt, especially considering that they are unstoppable behemoths as it is.

Once again, more idiots telling the entire mage population that it's their poor grasp of 'strategy' that's causing them to suck *** and then whine about it. I'll say it again and simply (because it is SIMPLE) - AL is not a hard or complicated game, building a good character is easy and the PvP map is clearly a gutted out test map (hence it being called 'TEST') because strategy isn't what the developers are looking at. They are looking at what happens with the classes when you throw them at each other in a simple arena, and what happens is that us sorcs get trampled. My point being we ARE using what you people keep referring to as 'good strategy', we DO have good builds because you'd have to be a simpleton to mess it up and our gear is the most expensive going.

I'm now 40 plat down on respecs over my 500 odd pvp kills, does that qualify me to 'complain'?

[nicoB]

I just came up with a cool idea that would make the mages happy while keeping rogues feeling useful if they have lower damage.

First of all, Rogues such as myself are getting offended about being targeted to be nerfed because we feel that killing quickly is the only thing we really have. Yes we annoy the hell out of mages, but take away our DPS and we are nothing. Why not give us something else to be good at in the realm of CTF?

Here's my proposal:

Nerf aimed shot to half it's current damage but give rogues better opportunity to stack the crit up over time if they wish.
Considerably improve rogues dodging ability so they can survive with their new nerfed attacks.
Considerably improve movement speed.

What do these 3 changes do?
Allows a rogue to still deal damage by stacking up crits, but we cannot kill as quickly, meaning mages can survive.
Makes rogues a great flag carrier class due to high dodge and movement speed (think of a scout class in many FPS games like the old team fortress).

This also gives us 2 distinct flag carrier styles. Fast dodging (rogue) or slow surviving (warrior). Mages will never be great for flag carrying. They are perfect to support the carrier and keep them alive.

lol pve boss fights would go a lot slower. if you already do low dmg a crit stack wont give you more damage . you'll still be doing low critical damage

[nicoB]

I think mages should get high dodge. becausw i imagine that it would be hard to hit a little blue elf? mini manfrog? baby goblin? does anybody even know wat a mage is? but watever a mage is i'd think it would be hard to hit something rrunning around so small with an arrow. so dodge. ya sounds good

[Glotch]

I have has alot of expirenc pvping now with almost 1.5k kills on my warrior, warrior is fine the way they are i met some mages close to killing me and i have all the best gear but lvl 20 will set still not bad, what i have found after a few good fixed 1v1s is:
Rogue is op is sence that they are able to stun you over and over as well as kite you and have a crazy crit buff making it neat imposibble to get at least 2 hits on a rogue befor dieing to top it they have amazing dodge chance.

Mages on the other hand die very easly with shield it can be a good fight but i will 100% win any way, with out shield i can pop a mid gear mage in 2/3 hits and well geard 5/6. There damage is a little low as i find mages need to lose some int for str to last more then a split second.

Wars are op in packs alone can be poped quite easy from a rogue.

All in all mages need dps pumped up or There dodge or hp pool. Rogues do need a damage reduction nerf.

The leader board is nonsence how is a low dps war or even mage keep up with rogues dps? A rogue can get a good 15/20 kills a round wile mage and war get around 5/10 kills.

My idea to fix all this? Bring out reall pvp gear not the fail watch man stuff that came out not to long ago. This pvp gear should have a damage reduction bonus. This will insure longer games and fights and give mages a fighting chance on the battlefield.


Atm its well unbalanced

Thanks Glotch

[quaziest]

I want fast casting for my sorcy and faster downtime for my skills, that will teach those rogues to mess us!!!! LOL ... snare those rogues!!!!

[yuriramos]

Mages with dodge. Lol. That will leave mages with insect health. People try to dictate whT mages need to do but never tried to be a mage at all. Its understandable that rogues and warriors will deny their advantage, again to avoid being nerfed. Believe me, i tried every build there is. 275.9 dps or max dmage, 1.9k hp. Pls read triblwares post before, its seems that we aee going back to the same argument all over again. I trust the devs will notice the imbalance and will work with it as we are only in the beta phase. Just by looking at the leaderboards, ull see its infestd my rogues.

[Rasittt]

rogues are a bit out of hand..2 rogues will 1 hit warriors and kill us..mages will keep stunning and slowing us down..only advantage we got on our side is the high defence, which doesn't even help anyway..

[Pulenski]

A 'SMALL' imbalance he says, HAH. It's either sheer ignorance or incredible gaul you've got saying something like that.

Apparently wherever you're from they don't have sarcasm, that line you quoted me on was a satirical jab at every laughably unfair argument you rogues come out with to try and tell us that we (implying ALL of the mages in the game) are just not thinking enough about our class builds or strategy. You my friend are an idiot and I'll once again refer you to page 7 of this thread for my thorough breakdown of just why you're an idiot.

We've bought the best gear, we've re-specced and re-adjusted. We've learned never to solo (even though it's impossible not to solo a lot of the time) and we've done all of the other obvious common sense stuff you seem to think we are missing. We are STILL at a drastic disadvantage. If you don't want your class nerfed fine go ahead and think up some lame argument for that, but don't have the balls to sit there and tell me that my class is doing just fine because believe me we are not.

Some great points made about the warrior build recently as well. 1) Why does hammer smash deal stun? It shouldn't, especially if a frost bolt from a mage doesn't even cause a slow. 2) Why do tanks have the best healing skill in the game? They shouldnt, especially considering that they are unstoppable behemoths as it is.

Once again, more idiots telling the entire mage population that it's their poor grasp of 'strategy' that's causing them to suck *** and then whine about it. I'll say it again and simply (because it is SIMPLE) - AL is not a hard or complicated game, building a good character is easy and the PvP map is clearly a gutted out test map (hence it being called 'TEST') because strategy isn't what the developers are looking at. They are looking at what happens with the classes when you throw them at each other in a simple arena, and what happens is that us sorcs get trampled. My point being we ARE using what you people keep referring to as 'good strategy', we DO have good builds because you'd have to be a simpleton to mess it up and our gear is the most expensive going.

I'm now 40 plat down on respecs over my 500 odd pvp kills, does that qualify me to 'complain'?

+1 to this

[nicoB]

Insect health?, i just said give them a lot of dodge they dont have to sacrifice any health. rogues have it, why not mages?

[CosmoxKramer]

I big help for the Sorcerer would be to change the 2s immune shield be on regular cast not a charged cast. a 2s immune shield on a Sorc should be used as an o crap shield. if i charged the spell to start a fight too, i just get stunned for the first 2s and then killed before i can charge a fireball or something else, so unless i can use it as an instant cast, it is nearly useless.

Otherwise make it be a 4s immune to all stun/slow type of a effects + 15% damage reduction (on top of whatever bonuses you reduction you may have spent a point on)

at the same time a warrior already has enough HP/armor etc and for them to easily throw on a 2s immune shield for a whole group is crazy. change it to be 50% damage reduct for the group for 2s. the single Upgrade is better than all 4 Sorcerer shield upgrades combined because it is a group heal/shield vs. a sorc alone shield.

[Asahetek]

I fought alot of good warriors and sorc and they can kills us they both have stun attacks before we get enough mana back to attack. As for warriors not being able to kill enough one game a warrior had 40 kills in a game, they have very high health, armour and can heal themselves good sorc who use their sheild spell and fire ball, and stun rogues they can kill us.

[nicoB]

rogues are a bit out of hand..2 rogues will 1 hit warriors and kill us..mages will keep stunning and slowing us down..only advantage we got on our side is the high defence, which doesn't even help anyway..

Are you serious lol? And how sis you get one shoted by 2 rogues? And of course your supposed to lose if you get double teamed dude. if you didnt you'd be way OP

[yuriramos]

Insect health?, i just said give them a lot of dodge they dont have to sacrifice any health. rogues have it, why not mages?

Omg u are dumb as a rock. Try it urself. Build a dex mage. Stop dictating what mages need to do coz you dont know anything of the class. Hey y dont u build an int based rogue for mana, mages have it, why not rogues?

[Xman]

Insect health?, i just said give them a lot of dodge they dont have to sacrifice any health. rogues have it, why not mages?

Because none of games I ever played for the last 15 years has a sorcerer who has dodge rate as high as a rogue's, it just doesn't make sense. Mage should have a high damage + effects, that's also what Dev team intended to do in this game, I believe, however it's quite hard for them because a little more dame+effect can make mages invincible, while a little less dame+effect can make them become insects (like at the moment). They need time to test and balance it.

And please, please give us a separated skill build when we join arena, it's also for further kinds of PvP, skills needed for PvP and PvE are so different. My rogue can play well with her PvE skill, because she always just focus on 1 target anyway. But my Warrior and mage can't use the same PvE build for PvP, that makes them weak in PvP.

[CosmoxKramer]

I would be nice if u could use 1 health and mana potion per time alive. So after you use each one once they would disable or disappear and on death and revival your potions would enable/become visible again

[Xman]

I would be nice if u could use 1 health and mana potion per time alive. So after you use each one once they would disable or disappear and on death and revival your potions would enable/become visible again

Omg don't, that makes rogue and Warrior even more invincible since their only weakness is mana. And a pot of hp won't help your mage survive much longer.

[nicoB]

Omg u are dumb as a rock. Try it urself. Build a dex mage. Stop dictating what mages need to do coz you dont know anything of the class. Hey y dont u build an int based rogue for mana, mages have it, why not rogues?

lol chill out man, I'm talking about gining dodge for INT on top of a base a base amount of dodge when starting off. why so defensive?

[Patricks]

The rogues power is OK. It can stay as is. It's just Mage is UNDER powered. They can't deal proper dmg because after shield and heal to deal with the low survivability, there r only two dmg skills left, so it's the most difficult class to use; and the difficulty of use is not rewarded.

Warrior is the class with too much. It is not possible for top spec Mage to kill top spec warrior 1v1, unless the human behind the warrior plays very poorly. It is especially difficult if a team has many warriors. They enjoy their high hp and just BUFF, HEAL, and HIGHFIVE eachother as they trample over you.

Some ppl say Mage can kill warrior easily 1v1, but that's only possible if warrior have crappy gear, and Mage has excellent. Every warrior and Mage worth a dime knows this.

I speak of endgame level. Don't know about twink.

[Erdnase]

If u would mind my words and stop exaggerating what i've said, u would c that all my percentage evaluations r accurate. First off i never said i go around willy-nilly killing all the warriors i want, my scenario is a 1v1 fight with full mana and health against a warrior/rogue. For a warrior when i say "easily" i mean if i wanted to kill a warrior it would not be a hard thing to do (in my scenario) and would b nothing i would brag about, yet one time or another yes i might die (mostly to the lack of me using my skills properly). For a rogue (still in my scenario) its 50/50, basically whoever gets the first shot. now in a group of 2 or more i have killed them as well but my guess is they had low health or mana, but mostly yes i will die without even one kill in a group fight (so i just don't fight a group, unless there's no other choice). now when i'm with a group of 2 or more, i'm practically unstoppable, unless i'm the target. now moving on to ur prized "top" players that i've "offended", i never even came close to calling les ignorant, that's ur words not mine, and for patrick, i do believe that he really killed 1 mil, he just uses hack to get unlimited dmg for a one shot kill, and this fact comes from his fellow guild mates that i would find to be a reliable source wouldn't u? And ultimately i don't give a flip what either think, because if they know so much about pvp why aren't they on top of the ctf leader board? And if u want to pvp with me my ign is Erdnase (duh) just keep in mind my evaluations r for the perfect scenario and depends on my team and the opposing team (for example, if the opposing team stays together the whole game and mine is just scattered out, i don't stand a chance) and there's a very good chance i could end up on the bad side of my 50/50 percentage. (btw ill expect my 10$ whenever we meet)

NOTE: this is in response to Tribalware

[Patricks]

If u would mind my words and stop exaggerating what i've said, u would c that all my percentage evaluations r accurate. First off i never said i go around willy-nilly killing all the warriors i want, my scenario is a 1v1 fight with full mana and health against a warrior/rogue. For a warrior when i say "easily" i mean if i wanted to kill a warrior it would not be a hard thing to do (in my scenario) and would b nothing i would brag about, yet one time or another yes i might die (mostly to the lack of me using my skills properly). For a rogue (still in my scenario) its 50/50 basically whoever gets the first shot. now in a group of 2 or more i have done as well but my guess is they had low health or mana, but mostly yes i will die without even one kill in a group fight (so i just don't fight a group, unless there's no other choice). now when i with a group of 2 or more, i'm practically unstoppable, unless i'm the target. now moving on to ur prized "top" players that i've "offended", i never even came close to calling les ignorant, that's ur words not mine, and for patrick, i do believe that he really killed 1 mil, he just uses hack to get unlimited dmg for a one shot kill, and this fact comes from his fellow guild mates that i would find to be a reliable source wouldn't u? And ultimately i don't give a flip what either think, because if they know so much about pvp why aren't they on top of the ctf leader board? And if u want to pvp with me my ign is Erdnase (duh) just keep in mind my evaluations r for the perfect scenario and depends on my team and the opposing team (for example, if the opposing team stays together the whole game and mine is just scattered out, i don't stand a chance) and there's a very good chance i could end up on the bad side of my 50/50 percentage. (btw
ill expect my 10$ whenever we meet)

Why would you want to pvp me? I'll just use my "one hit hack" to kill you. What horse poop. LOL.

[nicoB]

CTF needs an auto balance system to limit the number of each class that can be on one team. because theres teams of 5 you never wil have more than 2 members of one calss. Idk about you but i hate being on the team that has to go against a group 4-5 warriors. it seems like all the warriors know each other or something

[Erdnase]

I really don't get why people say we're under powered, it just depends on the mage u meet and the scenario they're in. some are new to pvp and don't know what skills to use, we aren't that weak little good for nothing class everyone keeps talking of (and i've got players in my guild that can back me up). PLEASE, don't think i don't won't any changes, but we all need tweaking done to our skills.

AND PLEASE, i would like everyone to please leave sensible post from now on and think fairly. with all the mixed opinions people are giving it basically makes this thread useless.

[nicoB]

If u would. mind my words and stop exaggerating what i've said, u would c that all my percentage evaluations r accurate. First off i never said i go around willy-nilly killing all the warriors i want, my scenario is a 1v1 fight with full mana and health against a warrior/rogue. For a warrior when i say "easily" i mean if i wanted to kill a warrior it would not be a hard thing to do (in my scenario) and would b nothing i would brag about, yet one time or another yes i might die (mostly to the lack of me using my skills properly). For a rogue (still in my scenario) its 50/50 basically whoever gets the first shot. now in a group of 2 or more i have done as well but my guess is they had low health or mana, but mostly yes i will die without even one kill in a group fight (so i just don't fight a group, unless there's no other choice). now when i with a group of 2 or more, i'm practically unstoppable, unless i'm the target. now moving on to ur prized "top" players that i've "offended", i never even came close to calling les ignorant, that's ur words not mine, and for patrick, i do believe that he really killed 1 mil, he just uses hack to get unlimited dmg for a one shot kill, and this fact comes from his fellow guild mates that i would find to be a reliable source wouldn't u? And ultimately i don't give a flip what either think, because if they know so much about pvp why aren't they on top of the ctf leader board? And if u want to pvp with me my ign is Erdnase (duh) just keep in mind my evaluations r for the perfect scenario and depends on my team and the opposing team (for example, if the opposing team stays together the whole game and mine is just scattered out, i don't stand a chance) and there's a very good chance i could end up on the bad side of my 50/50 percentage. (btw ill expect my 10$ whenever we meet)

NOTE: this is in response to Tribalware

Ive played you a few times before. your a good mage. My ign is chesher

[Erdnase]

Ive played you a few times before. your a good mage. My ign is chesher
ty chesher, i remember u

[Energizeric]

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days now. The more I play the more I do realize that something is surely wrong. I don't need to respec, I have a very good spec layout with stats and skills. One skill (i.e. shield) should not be required for any class to play effectively. The reason we have 8 to choose from is so that not all mages (or any other class) are the same.

I'm very much a numbers person, and usually analyze and figure out stuff like this based on the numbers. Something that always bothered me was how the stats are figured in AL. There are 5 main stats in AL: Health Points, Mana Points, Crit, Dodge, Damage

Damage is determined by the main stat for each class, so nobody has a big advantage with damage, unless we are talking about differences in gear between classes, and that is for another discussion.

STR determines health for the most part. Yes small amounts of health are obtained from DEX & INT, but most health comes from STR.

INT determines mana

But DEX determines both Crit and Dodge. Here is where the imbalance is. Going full DEX gives for a rogue gives them max damage, crit, dodge, and even some health. The only thing they lack is mana, which is why we hear complaints that rogues run out of mana too fast. But other than that, rogues can be pure DEX and have just about everything.

On the other hand, a mage that goes full INT will only have max damage & mana, and some health, but will be lacking both dodge and crit.

The fact that DEX determines the value of two major stats while STR & INT each only determine the value of one major stat is an issue here. This occurred to me before PvP was introduced, but now it seems to be showing itself on the battlefield.

When the Dead City expansion was introduced, a stat change was also introduced with regard to health points. It made it so that DEX & INT also gave health points, but fewer than STR does. Maybe a similar change needs to be made with regard to Crit or Dodge. Since logic would tell you that dodge is mostly determined by dexterity, I would suggest that maybe crit should be boosted by INT points, just less than it is boosted from DEX. I think that may even things out a bit without making adjustments to skills.

This would allow mages to gain a decent amount of crit (which would help their attacks), and would allow rogues to spec some INT to increase their mana. I think warriors are just fine as is, as I don't see many complaining about anything at all.

[nicoB]

I've been thinking about this for a couple of. days now. The more I play the more I do realize that something is surely wrong. I don't need to respec, I have a very good spec layout with stats and skills. One skill (i.e. shield) should not be required for any class to play effectively. The reason we have 8 to choose from is so that not all mages (or any other class) are the same.

I'm very much a numbers person, and usually analyze and figure out stuff like this based on the numbers. Something that always bothered me was how the stats are figured in AL. There are 5 main stats in AL: Health Points, Mana Points, Crit, Dodge, Damage

Damage is determined by the main stat for each class, so nobody has a big advantage with damage, unless we are talking about differences in gear between classes, and that is for another discussion.

STR determines health for the most part. Yes small amounts of health are obtained from DEX & INT, but most health comes from STR.

INT determines mana

But DEX determines both Crit and Dodge. Here is where the imbalance is. Going full DEX gives for a rogue gives them max damage, crit, dodge, and even some health. The only thing they lack is mana, which is why we hear complaints that rogues run out of mana too fast. But other than that, rogues can be pure DEX and have just about everything.

On the other hand, a mage that goes full INT will only have max damage & mana, and some health, but will be lacking both dodge and crit.

The fact that DEX determines the value of two major stats while STR & INT each only determine the value of one major stat is an issue here. This occurred to me before PvP was introduced, but now it seems to be showing itself on the battlefield.

When the Dead City expansion was introduced, a stat change was also introduced with regard to health points. It made it so that DEX & INT also gave health points, but fewer than STR does. Maybe a similar change needs to be made with regard to Crit or Dodge. Since logic would tell you that dodge is mostly determined by dexterity, I would suggest that maybe crit should be boosted by INT points, just less than it is boosted from DEX. I think that may even things out a bit without making adjustments to skills.

This would allow mages to gain a decent amount of crit (which would help their attacks), and would allow rogues to spec some INT to increase their mana. I think warriors are just fine as is, as I don't see many complaining about anything at all.

I like this

[Bullox]

I play a full equipt Warrior and i have no Chance against an Rogue with active Razor Shield... I think the damage from the shield is too high. Rogue is the only Class which can have over 90% critrate and can crit with what? 2k damage or more? I cant believe here gives people who said Rogue is not overpowered....
I know Rogue needs Damage Power, but in all Ranges? If u run away he blowes u off with aimed...if u go to him and try to beat him, he starts Razor Shield and u have exactly the 2 sec. from Warri Shield and then u are dead.
I tried a few Games with my full equipt Sorc. too. If no one see u and u can beat them from behind u have a little chance to get a kill... I only can say the Sorc complete the Picture.. We are only food for the Rogues to push their stats..
The easiest way to make the Game fair again...patch out the Warriors and Sorcs and we all play Rogues.
P.S. Sry for my bad English ;)

[Akiga]

Ice Mage can't freeze people... ARE YOU KIDDING ME!
The game's most CC spec can't CC but you left knockback to Warriors.

It's a glitch it must be it?

[Tribalware]

The rogues power is OK. It can stay as is. It's just Mage is UNDER powered. They can't deal proper dmg because after shield and heal to deal with the low survivability, there r only two dmg skills left, so it's the most difficult class to use; and the difficulty of use is not rewarded.

Warrior is the class with too much. It is not possible for top spec Mage to kill top spec warrior 1v1, unless the human behind the warrior plays very poorly. It is especially difficult if a team has many warriors. They enjoy their high hp and just BUFF, HEAL, and HIGHFIVE eachother as they trample over you.

Some ppl say Mage can kill warrior easily 1v1, but that's only possible if warrior have crappy gear, and Mage has excellent. Every warrior and Mage worth a dime knows this.

I speak of endgame level. Don't know about twink.

Sensible dialogue, (I'm not sure why a couple of people keep trying to invalidate the usefulness of this thread at all, seems to me there's a lot of really good points being made). As patrick (who is most likely not at the top of the CTF kills leaderboard because he plays a mage... Erdnase) has pointed out the main problem doesn't even have to be rogues being OP, it's more about the skills than the stats and our skills took a serious nerfing for PvP to the point where you're left with skill points hanging around spare after a lvl 21 build becuase the majority of skill perks are ineffective (see ALL the frost skills for example).

We're forced to spec for shield which is something we shouldn't really have to do, it should be an option for those looking to last a little longer but not a straight up necessity, but it's cool we'll bite that bullet, but as patrick points out we are then forced to spec for heal too. So think about it, as a damage dealing class (see page 7, previous posts, etc etc. we are NOT a support class) we've spent 2 of our 4 skills just on spells that help us survive more than a few seconds that don't even really benefit anyone else, leaving us severely reduced in our capacity to sling proper spells.

I tried the above build for a while but got sick and tired of lacking that extra damage spell, so now I'm back to fire, lightning, frost (which is in a shameful state (ADD A SLOW, IT'S A FREAKING ICE SPELL), and shield. Sod the health I don't make it out alive all that much anyway and besides a warrior does a better job of patching me up than I could. So I'm running around the map, trying to stay at the back of the lines, charging fireball hurling uncharged lightning and frost and then charging fireball again. At 276 dps I should be a slaughterhouse, I'm not. Some sensible ideas I've heard so far that don't involve fundamental changes to stats:

- Allow us our brief period of invulnerability on an uncharged shield, at the pace rogues work at we're just not left with the time to position those 2 seconds effectively when the shield has to be charged.
- Frost: Just... I mean come on guys for the love of christ make it do something. I'm reduced to using it but bitterly, only chance I have at outlasting a rogue (and up against a decent rogue it doesn't happen often) is to put them down with a charged fireball, power up an uncharged shield and then lay uncharged lightning and frost into them before they recover from the stun. But this is NOT enough to kill a rogue who is my equal, so I have to pray they are out of mana or feeling a little lazy so i can wait for my lightning to cooldown. That last lightning usually does it.
- Clock: Yeah I messed around with clock too, to be honest its useless considering how long fights last and that you have to be at the centre of all the chaos to drop it properly. But considering how hard it is to use effectively it could do a bit more damage/have a better slow effect/cause damage over time without having been charged first. Something, anything to make it a viable skill. As it stands I throw it into the 'completely redundant' pile alongside curse, gale and frost.

Whereas once again warriors... You guys DO need a nerf, I agree with patrick in that rogues need not necessarily be OP, I'd like to see their range reduced with bows but still when it comes to rogue vs. mage it feels more like we're underpowered rather than them being overpowered. Warriors on the other hand, you guys are just tripping out hard...

Putting aside your core stats for a moment, the fact that you have too much hp and do too much damage:
- Sky smash: it's a closing move, incredibly powerful as it is allowing you to effectively teleport to within range of a sorc AND deal damage. (and keeping our distance is quite literally our most powerful weapon at the moment). so why on gods green earth does it also deliver an incredibly effective stun.
- HP buff: Others have already put it better than me, but does it seem at all right that warriors get better support skills than the support class does? Perhaps we'd be more useful in PvP if warriors needed us to heal their HP and rogues needed us to replenish their mana, i'd love to fill a support role in that capacity. But as it stands warriors don't need us for anything.
- Bow range... with SWORDS: So you can outrange me now too you say? well that makes about as much sense as the class with an insane HP advantage also having an insane heal skill.

Our sorc skills need an overhaul, half of them are redundant inherently (see curse, clock) and the other half you guys at sts went and gutted pre PvP. That's right, to anyone blowing their horn about mages this and mages that, we actually took a nerf specifically for PvP. I'm not saying I expect to see a patch that leads to mages appearing on the leaderboards. Rogues are assassins, you guys were always going to be the best at collecting kills, but theres something very very wrong with it all at the moment and it kinda sucks the fun out of playing from time to time.

I have specced, geared and strategised my balls off, and will curse the next person to say 'you guys aren't underpowered, you're just bad players'. I wouldnt worry though, curse doesn't work worth sh*t anyhow ;)

[Cahaun]

I think they need to make it so that only str gives health, Dex gives dodge and critical, and int gives mana. Basically the old stat system is better IMO. Now anyone can just guzzle all into one stat and get the best of all three (rogues at the highest)

[Tribalware]

I really don't get why people say we're under powered, it just depends on the mage u meet and the scenario they're in. some are new to pvp and don't know what skills to use, we aren't that weak little good for nothing class everyone keeps talking of (and i've got players in my guild that can back me up). PLEASE, don't think i don't won't any changes, but we all need tweaking done to our skills.

AND PLEASE, i would like everyone to please leave sensible post from now on and think fairly. with all the mixed opinions people are giving it basically makes this thread useless.

No dude, nonsense posts like this make this thread useless. Uselessly full of clutter anyway.
1) Of course it depends on the mage and the scenario, say for instance the mage is maxed out with full hp and the rogue you bump into isn't maxed out with some hp missing. That might determine the outcome right? That's a wildly intelligent observation of you to make, and when I say intelligent what I mean is completely pointless. We're talking about comparable characters in the same state from different classes vs. one another. And when the playing field is equal we get dicked (because it's not an equal playing field).
2) Stop, I repeat STOP saying things like 'some are new to pvp and don't know what skills to use', that is not an explanation for anything, the mages giving their opinions here are top players and we have used EVERY skill to try and get a leg up. Sure mages who are poorly specced will get trampled, those of us properly specced are getting trampled too.

I'm adding you in game, we'll have a look see just how well you do for someone who's obviously so content. I'm still looking forward to watching you take down a warrior with ease. *Chuckles loudly and sarcastically as he high fives his cynical imaginary friends".

... Did I just write that? I need to lay off on this game

[JuiceBox]

I've read all the posts and it seems to me some of you guys are pvping at different levels.

I'm pvping at end game gear. Lvl 21 full demonlord security and best possible weapons and jewelry. All maxed for Int/str/dmg.

I also wear vanity gear to hide my strength. Others probably do the same. So don't confuse weak mages owning.

Im currently specced shield fire light and gale.

Against an equally geared warrior specced correctly. He can run into my base and back despite me unloading everything into him at the door and all the way to his base.

I need stuns/knockback? I have 5!
Charged fireball
lightning
Gale
Charged shield right next to him
Charged normal attack

And they don't even work all the time.

Warrior cool downs are too short. I'm just lucky he wasn't spamming normal attack or I would get clipped and die. I guess he just wanted the company for the trip home.

I have a level 21 fully geared warrior as well. So I know what I'm talking about. Because I have done it. Forget the group imma run laps and flag.

Dps warriors. That's what a Mage should be. Aoe stuns, group heal with shield, speed boosts and bonuses for everyone wow!! Mana heal?! Wtf.

Warriors should be on a rage system. IMHO. Do min damage to get power for stronger skills. Or longer cool downs for their attacks. They wave those big swords like they were cardboard rolls.

How about rogues? I get one shotted by them. How is that fun?

Where's the skill when the deciding factor is if I shield in time or not?

Also only form of crowd control right now that are worthwhile for mages are knock downs. Slow is easily overidden with staple skills of both warriors and rogues.

[currycrab]

Pet: Arcane legend (one of the legends run by spacetimestudios), has unique feature for pets. I obtained this from http://www.arcanelegendsgame.com/

Is your companion powerful in battle like a Wolf, a silent stalker like a Panther, or the world’s fastest Turtle? In Arcane Legends, you will collect a stable-full of powerful and mystical pets to aid you in your adventures. Each animal provides a different set of combat skills and buffs, so you can pick the one that suits your play style perfectly. Grow, feed, and play with dozens of different pets with unique attacks and special bonuses!

If pets are going to be disable, why make this legends when there is an existing platform such as pocket legends? It is unjustifiable with this description found for Arcane legends. PVP is part of the player's adventure too.

Warrior: The only stat that I am aware is STR. Warrior can go into tank-based or melee-based.
For Tank-based, warrior can survive 1-3 cubicle spaces depend. If the cross fire is 5 vs 5, tank-based will survive without worries. Tank-based warrior will lose to rogue in most case. It is ideally for flag taker and lurker.
For Melee-based warrior is able to secure kills and able to hover around fast. It work well in 1 vs 1. It is good for mid fielder, flag taker and defender.

Rogue:
STR Rogue. You stand a chance to survive and basically you play as medic, escorting flag takers to have home run safely, as well as you are able to take flags without sweat. It is good for lurker, mid fielder and flag taker. It play defender poorly due to unable to command good damage.
DEX Rogue. You rule the game by damage and you need to run like a wild dog. You should never be solo.

To summarize, all characters are balanced. It is the team work that count. I can pull off as tank warrior and get 5-0. I may also get 0-5 depend highly whom you play with. For rogue, i can kill mage / rogue in 1 hit. Warrior in 4 hit but i get kill in 1 or 2 hit.

Things that need to tune: The passive skill: Damage, Defense. This is not reflect on character avatar, is it working ?

A side note: every class has their unique features, it is depend on how you have unveil and release them in game. No class is invincible in PVP.

[currycrab]

I've read all the posts and it seems to me some of you guys are pvping at different levels.

I'm pvping at end game gear. Lvl 21 full demonlord security and best possible weapons and jewelry. All maxed for Int/str/dmg.

I also wear vanity gear to hide my strength. Others probably do the same. So don't confuse weak mages owning.

Im currently specced shield fire light and gale.

Against an equally geared warrior specced correctly. He can run into my base and back despite me unloading everything into him at the door and all the way to his base.

I need stuns/knockback? I have 5!
Charged fireball
lightning
Gale
Charged shield right next to him
Charged normal attack

And they don't even work all the time.

Warrior cool downs are too short. I'm just lucky he wasn't spamming normal attack or I would get clipped and die. I guess he just wanted the company for the trip home.

I have a level 21 fully geared warrior as well. So I know what I'm talking about. Because I have done it. Forget the group imma run laps and flag.

Dps warriors. That's what a Mage should be. Aoe stuns, group heal with shield, speed boosts and bonuses for everyone wow!! Mana heal?! Wtf.

Warriors should be on a rage system. IMHO. Do min damage to get power for stronger skills. Or longer cool downs for their attacks. They wave those big swords like they were cardboard rolls.

How about rogues? I get one shotted by them. How is that fun?

Where's the skill when the deciding factor is if I shield in time or not?

Also only form of crowd control right now that are worthwhile for mages are knock downs. Slow is easily overidden with staple skills of both warriors and rogues.

Mage pwn Rogue, if it is use properly. Most of the time when I see a GOOD mage incoming, the only solution for me is to run without any cross fire.

Find a good rogue or warrior and play with them regularly. You will own in PVP. No man is alone.

[Rays364]

I have a lvl 21 warrior and lvl 21 sorcerer. From my experience here is what I believe should happen.

Warrior: Lower their health a tad and make health regen add a little bit less health.

Sorcerer:Increase health a little, fix frost bolt, increase damage and make fireball do less stun time.

Rogue: Lower damage, increase mana and make aimed shot/bow do half the damage it does now.

[yuriramos]

I have a lvl 21 warrior and lvl 21 sorcerer. From my experience here is what I believe should happen.

Warrior: Lower their health a tad and make health regen add a little bit less health.

Sorcerer:Increase health a little, fix frost bolt, increase damage and make fireball do less stun time.

Rogue: Lower damage, increase mana and make aimed shot/bow do half the damage it does now.

Good point on this. But i think warrior health is fine, what makes it imbalance is their ability to move fast and do long range skills. Healing ability is also a bit op, the class with the most def and hp gets to heal? Again, one class shouldnt have everything.

[Megabird56]

Mage pwn Rogue, if it is use properly. Most of the time when I see a GOOD mage incoming, the only solution for me is to run without any cross fire.

Find a good rogue or warrior and play with them regularly. You will own in PVP. No man is alone.

He just said mage pwn rogue.

This is not because someone use mage properly. It's is because you use rogue IMproperly. Run away from mage? LOL.

[Pulenski]

Tribalware and Juicebox are talking a lot of sense regarding Sorc PvP issues, pretty much agree with all of it. Listen to them.

[beargasm]

im a lvl 21 warrior and eventhough i die alot i still find it fun to pvp :D
i respeced alot and am now stuck on a troll build cause i ran out of free plats lol

anyways feedback on classes:

warrior: too much hp + heal is really hard to kill. 1v1 on warrior vs warrior doesnt really finish in like 3mins minimum. can remove heal but leave 2sec shield on.
rogue: no problem with rogues its just the 250% crit dmg thats kinda OP. maybe make it 150%-200% so as to make sorcers enjoy pvp more lol. and im seeing less sorcs most likeley making a rogue or warrior lol
sorcs: errr...aside from the long stun and shield...nothing else good abt em xD they should get our vengeance blood haha infinite mana and dmg increase.

well its a feedback thread so i dont mind people flaming on my response. hope AL pvp gets fixed soon and be like any other STS games with an almost balanced pvp and less rant in pvp :D enjoy playing guys :)

[GANGWAR]

i am mage i am fully geared lvl 21

mage cant kill rogue 1v1
mage cant kill warrior 1v1

today when i playing patrick was in my team and we killed a rogue and a warrior

patrick and me killed a rogue
patrick and me killed a warrior

but warrior can kill mage alone
and rogue also can kill mage alone

mage r useless when we got 1v1 situation
mage needs supports to kill enemy

[Cashews]

For all of you claiming that sorc are weak, your doing it wrong. I have seen a sorc get 40+ kills in a game and literally take on half their team at once and kill all of them. Maybe you guys haven't found the right build yet.

[D-Zaak]

Rather than nerfing Rogue Damage, they need to raise Mage HP. Nerfing rogue damage makes it impossible to kill a warrior considering how quickly a rogue would run out of MP.
At least raising mage HP would benefit them against both Rogue AND Warrior. I don't understand why mage's prefer to nerf rogue over upping their own HP.
Why do mages totally forget there is an unkillable Warrior class? It's easy to get killed by a rogue, but also easy to kill one.