Seriously, Gold Sinks?

[dudetus]

Gold sink is an economic process by which a video game's ingame currency ('gold'), or any item that can be valued against it, is removed. This process is comparable to financial repression in real economies. Most commonly the genres are role-playing game or massively multiplayer online game. The term is comparable to timesink, but usually used in reference to game design and balance, commonly to reduce inflation when commodities and wealth are continually fed to players through sources such as quests, looting monsters, or minigames.

So, basically gold sinks are IG features which are designed to reduce gold currency in general in a game. Common gold sinks in MMOs are vanities, mounts, gear, etc. The only gold sinks in PL are potions and some elixirs. They aren't effective. Gold sinks are at their best as they are something which aren't necessity features in game. The problem without gold sinks is inflation. This can be easily seen as the heightened item prices in PL. And it has been spiralled way out of control since AO3.

In PL, there rly aren't any Gold Sinks. I have no idea why they haven't been added way earlier to the game (I already did a price complaint thread ages ago. click me. (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?38034-Prices-are-getting-ridiculously-high) Notice that the thread was made over a year ago) as the prices are just plain ridiculous. 4M for lvl 75 crafted STR armor, 2M for 1h wep, around 0.5M for helm and another 2M for the shield. Just ewwww.

I have been pondering a few obvious gold sinks for PL.


1) New vanities for Gold
So obvious. Wouldn't require that much of work and would be a rly effective way to get sum gold vanish. Prices may vary from 10k all the way to 1m as an example. With vanities, they can be anything and IMO gold purchasable exclusive vanities would be the best gold sink for PL, as the game itself is all about looking cool in end game.

2) Elixirs for Gold
Yeah, there already are some elixirs for gold. But who the heck will pay constantly some cash for 5 minute elixirs? It just doesn't make sense for me that the gold purchasable elixirs are so weak. Ofc the platinum bought elixirs should be stronger than gold bought, but like 2x 1/2 hour combo elixir for like 10k would be a very effective and constant gold sink. This one would be hardest to implement from my suggestions as it requires STS to tamper their best revenue merchandise, the elixirs. But yet, again, the situation is just simply horrible economically in PL. We need all the possible Gold Sinks IMO as for now.

3) Items for Gold
This is kinda like the same idea as the "bundles" in DL and AL. "Buy this superyduperychest for 50k and u may receive something cool". There could be scale able mediocre pinks (with mediocre meaning good, but not the best for the current lvl) and some superydupery exclusive vanities to look for. STR, DEX, INT and different vanity packs. I do not think that this system would be hard to implement to PL as it has always been there for DL and AL.


Ik that some of u might feel skeptical about this whole idea of "Gold Sinks".

"STOPID DADTUS I DO NOT WANTS TO GIEV MI GOLDS AWAI OMGOMGMOGMLOLOLOLROFLCOPTER"

But gold sinks are necessary. MMORPGs like PL are actual words. Some rules do go hand to hand with the real world. Economics does apply to MMORPGs. In real life the gold sinks are our necessities like food, home, shelter, platinum for PL and so on. In PL our only necessity is what we decide is our necessity. There aren't any requirements like "omgomg i gots to bai fod or mi burd deds". Gold keeps on coming and coming and nothing takes it away than what we decide we want. Some may be wondering how the gold just keeps on coming. Mainly, the gold comes to the game from dungeons. U know, those chests and enemies? They give totally free gold. U know those items u receive as random drops? They give u gold as u liquidate them. Other way how gold just magically appears to our Alterra, is gold purchasers for platinum. It might seem odd that we would get that much money to flow to the game but think for a while.

Let's imagine from June (as I can't recall specific release date in May) 2010 there have been daily 10 000 players doing 10 runs each and each run grants 200 golds for every player (a rly undercutting estimate IMO). So, daily there comes 2 000 000 golds to the whole game. for the year 2010 there came in total of 4 280 000 000 golds. Not to mention that as time has gone by, there are more and more players playing this game. That was just a simpleton estimation (yet again, totally lowballing IMO) for 2010 year only. Not to mention I start counting from June while 2011 and 2012 would have been full calender years. It's true that all of that gold isn't floating in PL as there are people who quit, but yet again I didn't even count or estimate the plat purchased gold.


All in all, Gold Sinks are a necessity for every single popular MMO. U can't just ignore the huge inflation going on STS, we need some action.

[Oskitopee]

2) Elixirs for Gold
Yeah, there already are some elixirs for gold. But who the heck will pay constantly some cash for 5 minute elixirs? It just doesn't make sense for me that the gold purchasable elixirs are so weak. Ofc the platinum bought elixirs should be stronger than gold bought, but like 2x 1/2 hour combo elixir for like 10k would be a very effective and constant gold sink. This one would be hardest to implement from my suggestions as it requires STS to tamper their best revenue merchandise, the elixirs. But yet, again, the situation is just simply horrible economically in PL. We need all the possible Gold Sinks IMO as for now.

I hear ya. I would totally spam 2x 30 min elixirs until i cap. Good idea.

[dudetus]

I hear ya. I would totally spam 2x 30 min elixirs until i cap. Good idea.

Exactly.

[Griffinfan]

Pro.

We definitely need this, it wouldn't fix the economy, but it would be a good start.

[wammm]

Pro.

We definitely need this, it wouldn't fix the economy, but it would be a good start.

I agree. Also, making some pinks rarer would help aswell ( I guess)

[JaytB]

Although I completely agree with the OP, STS has all those things already. Only not as a gold sink but as a plat sink. Elixers for example used to be the biggest gold sink in game, until they made the good ones only available through plat.

So, do I like the idea? Definitely! Do I think any of the suggestions would actually be implemented? For this question you got to ask yourself this: Would STS make anything that would lower plat purchases for the sake of a gold sink? I think you can answer that question yourself.

[Suentous PO]

i know i've suggested this before to no avail, but i agree mostly.
i wrote in a thread waaaayy back when guilds came out there should be guild vanities ( items or custom rooms), if they were for gold that would work a bit.
The one thing that makes me sceptical is that they are soo reluctant to do so much as recolor an old vanity to make it different looking ( both me and you were on the same page having never taken off zombie masks for a while anyway), so adding new ones doesn't seem likely.
oddly, i think these dragon armors are a kind of goldsink, along with the high priced endgame stuff. if your like me , i will pay prolly too much just to get that extra couple points of stat. i have that human face solely for the crit points, not because i wanna pass for barbra striesand.

[razerfingers]

I think they should keep the dragon pets for plat but then the dragon armor and such be in store but.. be a defined gold ammount and unlimited so you want red set? Have 5m? Buy helmet and armor for 2.5m each and after you purchase the gold gets removed from the game entirely. But most would cry and complain. Lol

Sent using blood on a bathroom wall

[iRusher]

We need mounts in all legends games, the only mobile MMO I've played that has mounts is Order and Chaos.

[dudetus]

Although I completely agree with the OP, STS has all those things already. Only not as a gold sink but as a plat sink. Elixers for example used to be the biggest gold sink in game, until they made the good ones only available through plat.

So, do I like the idea? Definitely! Do I think any of the suggestions would actually be implemented? For this question you got to ask yourself this: Would STS make anything that would lower plat purchases for the sake of a gold sink? I think you can answer that question yourself.

Yes, that was the reason why I kinda wouldn't count on it. I threw that idea because it would work, not counting on if it was actually put in work. Tbh, I do not think any of these ideas will be implemented. I've learned my lesson for trying to be a contributing forum member. We can toss the ideas, but they will only remain as ideas.

@Sue, yep, vanities are what they are nowadays. Re-colored old vanities. I got an idea for the "exclusive" vanities. Zombie Head is taken from a zombie, why couldn't there be more of "enemy" like only head vanities? Elite vanity thingamabob already exists in which we are a look-a-like to a miniboss. Like skeleton faces, knight faces and so on. Halloween is a costume event and it doesn't contradict with face only vanities. Wouldn't hurt the bandwith that much as completely new vanities but would still be so popular.

Edit: and End game equipment kinda isn't actually a gold sink as it just transfers the money from my pov.

[tHelonestud]

Maybe an NPC that sells actually good gear?
Sells gold buyable rings
Sell pets for gold
Add decorations for guild halls customizable with gold purchases

The real problem with PL gold sinks is all the legitimate ones are already plat only items
The old elixir system worked great
Make turnstile dungeons cost gold
Make crafting recipes cost gold
Inventory slots, auction slots, stash slots
I mean, yes, it would totally kill revenue if they changed all of this.
Just some pieces though. Bring back old 2x and 3x elixirs for a higher price and keep the 4x for plat

It seems it comes to wanting money or an awesome game.
And most players don't really care that much and STS knows that people will play and pay the plat prices no matter what. PvP has needed a revamp since fang, they just watched it get worse, PvE is almost 100% elixir based, vanity prices have risen. Remember the shock and outrage when the OCD was first released. They don't care because they know the player will eat whatever they are given

[Bunnyshoota]

Gold sinks ftw

[XghostzX]

I honestly think STS needs to just bring something new to the table. All of those things you stated, Dudetus, as mentioned - it's only a start.

When bringing something new to the table, it has to be big, appealing, and fun to use/wear/do/etc. This is what STS is lacking.

And basically what I'm about to say has already been mentioned MILLIONS of times in the Suggestion Forum.

-Guild Decorations
-PvP Gear that you can't buy from CS/trade/sell. You buy it (for a large price) once, and then it's bound to your character
-Mounts
-Elixirs For Gold/Vanities as you mentioned

I agree that this is a mobile MMO, but I think the game would be soooooooo much better without the world map. If we log off in the Ancient Swamps, then we log back in the AS. People that are in a hurry (or impatient) to travel to a new towne have to by some sort of teleporter. I'm thinking of Runescape...

[iRusher]

I honestly think STS needs to just bring something new to the table. All of those things you stated, Dudetus, as mentioned - it's only a start.

When bringing something new to the table, it has to be big, appealing, and fun to use/wear/do/etc. This is what STS is lacking.

And basically what I'm about to say has already been mentioned MILLIONS of times in the Suggestion Forum.

-Guild Decorations
-PvP Gear that you can't buy from CS/trade/sell. You buy it (for a large price) once, and then it's bound to your character
-Mounts
-Elixirs For Gold/Vanities as you mentioned

I agree that this is a mobile MMO, but I think the game would be soooooooo much better without the world map. If we log off in the Ancient Swamps, then we log back in the AS. People that are in a hurry (or impatient) to travel to a new towne have to by some sort of teleporter. I'm thinking of Runescape...

Sounded more like Order and Chaos to me lol

[Oskitopee]

Enough with the "mounts"! WE ARE ANIMALS IN THE GAME. Why would animals ride animals? That's just weird. Anyway, a better idea would be if we could pay gold to have a trainer unlock a class-specific mega ability. Bird would be fly, bear would be thick skin (invincibility for x amount of time, etc. for all classes. We use the gold to get cool skills. That way, everyone will buy a skill and there will be a sink, and there's no weird animals riding animals stuff going on.

[JaytB]

Enough with the "mounts"! WE ARE ANIMALS IN THE GAME. Why would animals ride animals? That's just weird.

How about human mounts then? :D

[Oskitopee]

How about human mounts then? :D

That would make a cruel world parallel to the one we live in now...lol

[Caiahar]

Enough with the "mounts"! WE ARE ANIMALS IN THE GAME. Why would animals ride animals? That's just weird.

How about human mounts then? :D

I just burst out laughing as soo as I heard you say that.

[Suentous PO]

I got an idea for the "exclusive" vanities. Zombie Head is taken from a zombie, why couldn't there be more of "enemy" like only head vanities? Elite vanity thingamabob already exists in which we are a look-a-like to a miniboss. Like skeleton faces, knight faces and so on. Halloween is a costume event and it doesn't contradict with face only vanities.

Sick minds think alike- here's my suggestion thread for new holoween vanities way back. I was trying to keep the old stuff from returning. http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?70712-New-Haloween-items
In fable u got dye packs to recolor items, I'd buy that here.

And your right, simply expensive stuff isn't removing money, economics allways bored me.

[XghostzX]

How about human mounts then? :D

In a parallel universe ;)

Screw it, why don't we just drive cars and motorcycles or something?

[Oskitopee]

but animals are animals, we should be able to visit an animal specific trainer that allows us, for a fee, to unlock a cool skill, prolly transportation skill. Like a bird would fly, mage would create portals, etc.

[vle_hoang]

2) Elixirs for Gold
Yeah, there already are some elixirs for gold. But who the heck will pay constantly some cash for 5 minute elixirs? It just doesn't make sense for me that the gold purchasable elixirs are so weak. Ofc the platinum bought elixirs should be stronger than gold bought, but like 2x 1/2 hour combo elixir for like 10k would be a very effective and constant gold sink. This one would be hardest to implement from my suggestions as it requires STS to tamper their best revenue merchandise, the elixirs. But yet, again, the situation is just simply horrible economically in PL. We need all the possible Gold Sinks IMO as for now.



x1.5 Combo are 7k for 5min, even if they make x1.5 combo for 30min/60min for 30k/60k, that would be nice.

[Chopper]

Simple

Each character can only hold 9.999 m gold, right?

9m gold store item of special boots that make you walk 20 percent faster ALL THE TIME. Non-tradeable, nonstashabe. Every player will be tempted to sink their gold into one and start from scratch again basically.

[Conradin]

Player houses? Play to buy and only gold to pimp out.

[Doodlebeast]

Thanks duddy

[Riccits]

the only gold sink ever was when we all leveled to 56 with gold elixiers^^

since devs r knowing it since more than a year, theres no intention to bring any system. i think they want it so bcz they want everyone level to endgame and farm a lot.

in my opinion thers not really needed a gold sink. the endgame gear is expensive in our eyes yes, but a gold sink woudnt change anything. always supply and demand making the price, and if thers x% lesser money in game the gear is y% cheaper but it will always seem very expensive.

[Whisper72]

I agree on the issue of gold sinks. I understand the reluctance of STS to put a dent in the plat sinks.
One thought is I have though is that, overall, there may be two types of players. People with a lot of time on their hands (generally younger ppl) and people with money to spend (generally older folks with a job / kids etc.).

The ppl with money to spend (i.e. plat) generally do not have the time to really farm for gold as much.
The ppl with time to spend can farm plenty gold but wont buy lotsa plat.

As such, plat and gold do not necessarily go hand-in-hand. If ya put up a wicked exchange rate, I believe STS could put items / elixers / vanities etc. that are now mainly plat bought up for sale for gold as well without putting a big dent in plat sales.
If a thrasher (normally 40 plat) costs 400K gold? Would that really put a dent in things? Plat spenders still need their gold to get good gear from the CS (especially since they often do not have the time available to farm for specific items), and many of those who have gold to burn probably do not spend that much plat anyway.

Of course there will be exceptions to this, and probably many of those are active in these forums, but I think that STS could well run a quick scan of their database, crossreferencing plat spend and gold possession per account and thus check whether my hypothesis is correct. If so, there is little barrier to putting out gold sinks which on the surface would compete with plat sinks...

[The Greediness]

Enough with the "mounts"! WE ARE ANIMALS IN THE GAME. Why would animals ride animals? That's just weird. Anyway, a better idea would be if we could pay gold to have a trainer unlock a class-specific mega ability. Bird would be fly, bear would be thick skin (invincibility for x amount of time, etc. for all classes. We use the gold to get cool skills. That way, everyone will buy a skill and there will be a sink, and there's no weird animals riding animals stuff going on.
Don't know about the rest of the community, but I'd love to see some 'bear on bear' action ;)

[Dreuefesie]

Very well put! Also they could make the bundles you mentioned vanity bundles? Where you pay 'so much' for a rare* chance of receiving a vanity item. But they could also sell vanity items separately for 200k each or some big number. Also maybe a pay-to-enter dungeon where you have a rare* chance of receiving a pink or vanity?

*By rare I mean something that will take so long to get complaints get raised on forums etc. Also the items won't be 'the best' gear in game, but look really cool so people feel a sense of achievement when they get them.

Also make the tradeable so that people continue to farm them, paying 1k each time or however much the amount is.

Edit: Suddenly a wild gold sink appeared...

[tHelonestud]

in my opinion thers not really needed a gold sink. the endgame gear is expensive in our eyes yes, but a gold sink woudnt change anything. always supply and demand making the price, and if thers x% lesser money in game the gear is y% cheaper but it will always seem very expensive.

True but what happens when endgame item prices jump above the gold cap?
Then people are getting 'scammed'
It just make a bigger problem and involving STS actually then

[Deadsoldiers]

the only gold sink ever was when we all leveled to 56 with gold elixiers^^

since devs r knowing it since more than a year, theres no intention to bring any system. i think they want it so bcz they want everyone level to endgame and farm a lot.

in my opinion thers not really needed a gold sink. the endgame gear is expensive in our eyes yes, but a gold sink woudnt change anything. always supply and demand making the price, and if thers x% lesser money in game the gear is y% cheaper but it will always seem very expensive.

Agreed in some points, but it would also crash markets first since everyone would try to sell before items get cheaper. So gears would crash down to minimum.
Also this would only solve the problem of expensive gears. Also this would be bad for all cheap gears for example crystalline because they already crashed down to a minimum price. This would make everyone level to endgame to finally make some gold. Every other farming would be pointless. Since every item which is worth less than 250k+ (just a guessed price) would be worthless quickly.

[dudetus]

True but what happens when endgame item prices jump above the gold cap?
Then people are getting 'scammed'
It just make a bigger problem and involving STS actually then

STS raises gold cap to 99 999 999 golds, problem solved.

[Brave Sir Robin]

Interesting disussion on a subject which is relevant to all MMORPGs.

In the case of PL it is evident (to me) that some measures were already taken to counter the effects of inflation:

1. Limiting transactions below a certain gold cap.

2. Dragon sets are actually gold sinks. Probably this is one of the reasons why they changed them so that if you want their bonus, you give up their value (gold).

3. Introduction of powerful, special-event-looted (e.g. Forgotten) or awarded (e.g. Angelic) gear which decreased the value of previously high-end items (thus degrading hoarded stocks) is another example of gold sink.

So why are the prices of Blacksmoke items still high?

I will answer this question with another question: Yes, prices are high, but are they out of control?

As we know prices are determined by supply and demand. An increase in drop rates would cause the prices to drop. E.g. look what happened to L.56 Glyph sets: they used to be worth 20 mil, now the most expensive costs 2 mil. No player clique could control/prevent this downfall. But drop rates have not increased (yet) in Blacksmoke (again, this is my personal opinion/observation). Also, consider that even the logic of "Premium" and "Normal" pink sets (e.g. Obedience/Mimicry or Lilith/of the Fang) was abandoned in the current campaign. This further increased the demand for Blacksmoke pinks as there is no cheap alternative anymore. This was a decision and therefore increased rarity was (IMO) a desirable outcome for the developing team. Additionally, this time levels take more time to complete, bosses are fewer and the boss that drops armors is particularly hard. All these factors make farming more difficult compared to previous campaigns (having a negative effect on supply), which further explains the high market prices. Possibly, high as intended.

As a general comment: IMO the whole F2P model is based in converting real money to in-game currency (in this case mainly indirectly e.g. luck boosters, plat recipes etc) which obviously leads to gold accumulation + inflation if not handled properly. Given PL's success, I believe that inflation is a matter seriously considered and taken care of.

In summary, I agree that gold accumulation is a potential problem, but only if there is evidence that market prices are solely controlled by a clique of rich players. The L.56 Glyph paradigm proves that this is not the case. In fact, the good news is that a new player can easily progress until the endgame using cheap gear (i.e. Sewers, Nuri and Fang items). A good Humania set (750k - 1.5 mil) is then sufficient to start farming and after a few drops in Blacksmoke they can start thinking about an endgame set.

[Oskitopee]

STS raises gold cap to 99 999 999 golds, problem solved.

But then ppl would start to charge more and more money, when some ppl can barely get a million. People would start charging insane amounts if the cap was that high.

[Dreuefesie]

STS raises gold cap to 99 999 999 golds, problem solved.

But then ppl would start to charge more and more money, when some ppl can barely get a million. People would start charging insane amounts if the cap was that high.

Yes, gold would lose its value because people will start selling for 9999999+ and you'll need heaps to try and keep up with the prices.

[Cobraguy]

Dragon sets are actually gold sinks. Probably this is one of the reasons why they changed them so that if you want their bonus, you give up their value (gold).

False, a gold sink is when the gold disappears into nothingness. Buying a Dragon piece for gold from another player just keeps the gold in game......

STS doesn't care about the in game economy, they care about the real economy and plat sales putting real cash in their pockets. Hell, if I was part of STS, thats all I'd care about. How else are they going to make the payments on their Ferraris?

[XghostzX]

Dragon sets are actually gold sinks. Probably this is one of the reasons why they changed them so that if you want their bonus, you give up their value (gold).

False, a gold sink is when the gold disappears into nothingness. Buying a Dragon piece for gold from another player just keeps the gold in game......

STS doesn't care about the in game economy, they care about the real economy and plat sales putting real cash in their pockets. Hell, if I was part of STS, thats all I'd care about. How else are they going to make the payments on their Ferraris?

If that's what your main goal is (pretending you work at STS), then your duties as a dev aren't being fulfilled; you have also lied. They made a promise to the players that they are listening and "considering our feedback" every now and then, but nah. They honestly never do. Again, neglected by the other games and mostly AL. It's so pathetic the position that we're in.

Might as well adjust to the environment as us humans always do...

[Deadsoldiers]

Dragon sets are actually gold sinks. Probably this is one of the reasons why they changed them so that if you want their bonus, you give up their value (gold).

False, a gold sink is when the gold disappears into nothingness. Buying a Dragon piece for gold from another player just keeps the gold in game......

STS doesn't care about the in game economy, they care about the real economy and plat sales putting real cash in their pockets. Hell, if I was part of STS, thats all I'd care about. How else are they going to make the payments on their Ferraris?

If that's what your main goal is (pretending you work at STS), then your duties as a dev aren't being fulfilled; you have also lied. They made a promise to the players that they are listening and "considering our feedback" every now and then, but nah. They honestly never do. Again, neglected by the other games and mostly AL. It's so pathetic the position that we're in.

Might as well adjust to the environment as us humans always do...
Uhh ya triple quote.....
I agree with xGhostx, they really never did, i remember the huge dicussions when 2011 winter event started about that silly 2plat per run thing. Also about the high platinum prices..... Also i remember Noobmingo geting banned for voicing his opinion to that theme so i better shut up O.o

[Disko]

Most intelligent conversation on these forums... good looking out Ninja, hopefully this is noted by the correct people. I am sure the devs are well aware of this situation, but as Cobra mentioned, do they care? Well at least now they know that WE care. Hopefully if enough dedicated (or high-plat-bracket!) players chime in, it will make an impression.

My 2c, I think an endgame gold leech would be best.. as most newbs really do not accumulate much $ while leveling, potions really are still a burden to them... Purchasing Elix for gold would be incredible, even if very expensive. Idk if it would be enuff to solve the issue tho.

Oh and thanks to Dreuefesie for posting that fancy basin.. beat me to it!

[Deadsoldiers]

Most intelligent conversation on these forums... good looking out Ninja, hopefully this is noted by the correct people. I am sure the devs are well aware of this situation, but as Cobra mentioned, do they care? Well at least now they know that WE care. Hopefully if enough dedicated (or high-plat-bracket!) players chime in, it will make an impression.

My 2c, I think an endgame gold leech would be best.. as most newbs really do not accumulate much $ while leveling, potions really are still a burden to them... Purchasing Elix for gold would be incredible, even if very expensive. Idk if it would be enuff to solve the issue tho.

Oh and thanks to Dreuefesie for posting that fancy basin.. beat me to it!
Ya potions would be great but this wouldnt happen since Sts needs the money....
What you call high-plat-bracket?
I am at 5k plat purchased i think, seen alot of people haveing spent more :), but i really love the idea of gold sinks and potions for gold.
Ugh getting off-topic sorry,
Just to also say here i would have paied 100-150plat to buy a winter map this year for endless playing. But i really dislike the 2plat per run system. So no money from me this winter only in january to level my mage :). Devs you see the players want things changed

[dudetus]

Interesting disussion on a subject which is relevant to all MMORPGs.

In the case of PL it is evident (to me) that some measures were already taken to counter the effects of inflation:

1. Limiting transactions below a certain gold cap.

2. Dragon sets are actually gold sinks. Probably this is one of the reasons why they changed them so that if you want their bonus, you give up their value (gold).

3. Introduction of powerful, special-event-looted (e.g. Forgotten) or awarded (e.g. Angelic) gear which decreased the value of previously high-end items (thus degrading hoarded stocks) is another example of gold sink.

So why are the prices of Blacksmoke items still high?

I will answer this question with another question: Yes, prices are high, but are they out of control?

As we know prices are determined by supply and demand. An increase in drop rates would cause the prices to drop. E.g. look what happened to L.56 Glyph sets: they used to be worth 20 mil, now the most expensive costs 2 mil. No player clique could control/prevent this downfall. But drop rates have not increased (yet) in Blacksmoke (again, this is my personal opinion/observation). Also, consider that even the logic of "Premium" and "Normal" pink sets (e.g. Obedience/Mimicry or Lilith/of the Fang) was abandoned in the current campaign. This further increased the demand for Blacksmoke pinks as there is no cheap alternative anymore. This was a decision and therefore increased rarity was (IMO) a desirable outcome for the developing team. Additionally, this time levels take more time to complete, bosses are fewer and the boss that drops armors is particularly hard. All these factors make farming more difficult compared to previous campaigns (having a negative effect on supply), which further explains the high market prices. Possibly, high as intended.

As a general comment: IMO the whole F2P model is based in converting real money to in-game currency (in this case mainly indirectly e.g. luck boosters, plat recipes etc) which obviously leads to gold accumulation + inflation if not handled properly. Given PL's success, I believe that inflation is a matter seriously considered and taken care of.

In summary, I agree that gold accumulation is a potential problem, but only if there is evidence that market prices are solely controlled by a clique of rich players. The L.56 Glyph paradigm proves that this is not the case. In fact, the good news is that a new player can easily progress until the endgame using cheap gear (i.e. Sewers, Nuri and Fang items). A good Humania set (750k - 1.5 mil) is then sufficient to start farming and after a few drops in Blacksmoke they can start thinking about an endgame set.

Ah, I totally forgot the dragon equipment which totally supplements as an effective gold sink. +1 for that.

It's true, that Dragons are a gold sink, but to think of that this game ran 2 and a half years without any sort of effective gold sinks, there still is lots of gold circulating. And yes, as seen from lvl 56 Glyph the drop rates (meaning supply and demand) could indeed work to get end game set prices lower and overall items less expensive.

I still do think that we need a gold sink even if drop rates were raised as this game has been running so long without any effective gold sink systems. Vanity and item bundles would be IMO the best solution as there already are these in 2 games (AL, PL). And as an addition I think overall liqudating prices should be lowered way down to same levels as in other games. Not a gold sink, but definetely a countermeasure against future inflation.

Very well put reply Robin.

[XghostzX]

The devs won't ever acknowledge us anymore :(

[Deadsoldiers]

The devs won't ever acknowledge us anymore :(
Seems like you're right

[Seiyen]

Agreee with op, prices are rediculous :thumbdown:

[Cobraguy]

To the guys who think Dragon gear is a gold sink, please explain. Isnt a gold sink when gold disappears into nothingness? If I buy your dragon set, you have the gold, it stays in the economy....

[Brave Sir Robin]

To the guys who think Dragon gear is a gold sink, please explain. Isnt a gold sink when gold disappears into nothingness? If I buy your dragon set, you have the gold, it stays in the economy....

A simple way to see it is the definition:


a video game's in-game currency ('gold'), or any item that can be valued against it, is removed.

So in our case the valuable items "Helm, Armor" are removed during the crafting process. By definition this makes dragon vanity crafting a gold sink.

If you want to see it in terms of world economy, I can give 2 examples:

A. World population = 1, farmer, Resources: 600 plat, 60k, 8 hrs to farm.

World wealth: 600 plat, 60k, 8 farming hours.

After spending 30k on pots and 8 hrs of farming on 100% luck (-320 plat) he farms the set worth 6 mil.

World wealth: 280 plat, 6.03 mil. gold (30k gold and 6 mil on tradeable items), 0 farming hours.

To craft the set he spends 200 plat on a pet dragon, 30k for recipe and now the dragon set is not tradeable.

World wealth: 80 plat, 0 gold, 0 farming hours.

This also serves as a reminder that in-game gold comes with a cost.

B. World population = 2

1. Merchant with dragon set
2. Buyer with wealth: 6.03 mil gold, 200 plat.

World wealth: 12.03 mil gold (6.03 mil gold and 6 mil tradeables), 200 plat.

Buyer purchases dragon set.

World wealth: 12.03 mil gold (6.03 mil gold and 6 mil tradeables), 200 plat.

Buyer buys dragon pet and crafts the set.

World wealth: 6 mil gold, 0 plat.


Ah, I totally forgot the dragon equipment which totally supplements as an effective gold sink. +1 for that.

It's true, that Dragons are a gold sink, but to think of that this game ran 2 and a half years without any sort of effective gold sinks, there still is lots of gold circulating. And yes, as seen from lvl 56 Glyph the drop rates (meaning supply and demand) could indeed work to get end game set prices lower and overall items less expensive.

I still do think that we need a gold sink even if drop rates were raised as this game has been running so long without any effective gold sink systems. Vanity and item bundles would be IMO the best solution as there already are these in 2 games (AL, PL). And as an addition I think overall liqudating prices should be lowered way down to same levels as in other games. Not a gold sink, but definetely a countermeasure against future inflation.

Very well put reply Robin.

Thx, nice discussion going on here (for a change lol). Interesting what you mention about lowering liquidating prices. Have more thoughts, will probably write some more when I manage to put them in order :)

[Elf-Orc-Naga]

So, basically gold sinks are IG features which are designed to reduce gold currency in general in a game. Common gold sinks in MMOs are vanities, mounts, gear, etc. The only gold sinks in PL are potions and some elixirs. They aren't effective. Gold sinks are at their best as they are something which aren't necessity features in game. The problem without gold sinks is inflation. This can be easily seen as the heightened item prices in PL. And it has been spiralled way out of control since AO3.

In PL, there rly aren't any Gold Sinks. I have no idea why they haven't been added way earlier to the game (I already did a price complaint thread ages ago. click me. (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?38034-Prices-are-getting-ridiculously-high) Notice that the thread was made over a year ago) as the prices are just plain ridiculous. 4M for lvl 75 crafted STR armor, 2M for 1h wep, around 0.5M for helm and another 2M for the shield. Just ewwww.

I have been pondering a few obvious gold sinks for PL.


1) New vanities for Gold
So obvious. Wouldn't require that much of work and would be a rly effective way to get sum gold vanish. Prices may vary from 10k all the way to 1m as an example. With vanities, they can be anything and IMO gold purchasable exclusive vanities would be the best gold sink for PL, as the game itself is all about looking cool in end game.

2) Elixirs for Gold
Yeah, there already are some elixirs for gold. But who the heck will pay constantly some cash for 5 minute elixirs? It just doesn't make sense for me that the gold purchasable elixirs are so weak. Ofc the platinum bought elixirs should be stronger than gold bought, but like 2x 1/2 hour combo elixir for like 10k would be a very effective and constant gold sink. This one would be hardest to implement from my suggestions as it requires STS to tamper their best revenue merchandise, the elixirs. But yet, again, the situation is just simply horrible economically in PL. We need all the possible Gold Sinks IMO as for now.

3) Items for Gold
This is kinda like the same idea as the "bundles" in DL and AL. "Buy this superyduperychest for 50k and u may receive something cool". There could be scale able mediocre pinks (with mediocre meaning good, but not the best for the current lvl) and some superydupery exclusive vanities to look for. STR, DEX, INT and different vanity packs. I do not think that this system would be hard to implement to PL as it has always been there for DL and AL.


Ik that some of u might feel skeptical about this whole idea of "Gold Sinks".

"STOPID DADTUS I DO NOT WANTS TO GIEV MI GOLDS AWAI OMGOMGMOGMLOLOLOLROFLCOPTER"

But gold sinks are necessary. MMORPGs like PL are actual words. Some rules do go hand to hand with the real world. Economics does apply to MMORPGs. In real life the gold sinks are our necessities like food, home, shelter, platinum for PL and so on. In PL our only necessity is what we decide is our necessity. There aren't any requirements like "omgomg i gots to bai fod or mi burd deds". Gold keeps on coming and coming and nothing takes it away than what we decide we want. Some may be wondering how the gold just keeps on coming. Mainly, the gold comes to the game from dungeons. U know, those chests and enemies? They give totally free gold. U know those items u receive as random drops? They give u gold as u liquidate them. Other way how gold just magically appears to our Alterra, is gold purchasers for platinum. It might seem odd that we would get that much money to flow to the game but think for a while.

Let's imagine from June (as I can't recall specific release date in May) 2010 there have been daily 10 000 players doing 10 runs each and each run grants 200 golds for every player (a rly undercutting estimate IMO). So, daily there comes 2 000 000 golds to the whole game. for the year 2010 there came in total of 4 280 000 000 golds. Not to mention that as time has gone by, there are more and more players playing this game. That was just a simpleton estimation (yet again, totally lowballing IMO) for 2010 year only. Not to mention I start counting from June while 2011 and 2012 would have been full calender years. It's true that all of that gold isn't floating in PL as there are people who quit, but yet again I didn't even count or estimate the plat purchased gold.


All in all, Gold Sinks are a necessity for every single popular MMO. U can't just ignore the huge inflation going on STS, we need some action.

This is the reason why I suggested to introduce "mounts" and buy it from NPC for 5 mil! (or any value > 2mil). Then have mount rank (different from mount level) in terms of gold too. In this case economy can be distorted(or "normalized") and nothing left to do but to farm farm thrash gears then liquidate it for gold... and dungeons which produce gold will be alive again (i remember crush the keeper to buy mega void gun noob farming for me lol)

[Chopper]

This has been mentioned many times already and has turned cold. PL needs more than a gold sink now, they need a miracle to correct its economy. Gold Sinks are supposed to prevent over inflation, not solve them. When there's too much currency in a game, there's no turning back, because people will hold on to their gold. It's a natural economic behavior called greed. You don't expect someone to just spend a large portion of his wealth for NPC items. If they impose drastic gold sinks by selling expensive NPC items, people ignores those items and rages. So not only do they have an over inflated economy, they also now have an angry community. Not to mention, this game sells in-game gold for real money, and it will look like they're just forcing people to buy in-game gold with real money. Two words: Too late. Many games have suffered this fate, and it's a point of no return.


PS: People are only realizing this now? We started talking about this over a year ago...LOL, and we were branded trolls for doing so...oh well :D

good points. It's a rough problem to solve now.

Maybe a dreaded TAX by STS on all gold stashes and items? The rich get killed the most. Brings some balance back. Or enable gold to be spent on items in other games (but not vice versa) to drain gold out of the system.

[Chopper]

**duplicate post**