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View Full Version : Exploiting is not a skill. Much needed investigation in PvP.



Imwatchingyou
01-28-2013, 07:42 PM
FYI, this was meant to be posted in AL, not PL. Sorry for the mixup.

It appears more exploits or cheaters are emerging in PvP more usual than normal. First, I think it's infuriating one has the nerve to call someone noob or "no skill" when one commits to exploiting and cheating. I'd like to remind everyone finding a loop hole in a system and using that advantage as means to conduct something that average players cannot do is called an exploit, and categorizes as cheating. Since this is "Beta" I feel this is my right to sharing my opinion in regards to this.

I'd like to give a list as to what is currently going on:

Script exploit. The ability to use all skills in one motion auto-script for the commands key points 1, 2, 3, & 4. This enables the player to be able to skip reload times when the next available skill can be chosen. Phone users cannot do this, so this is an abusive advantage.

Boosting. Players in parties are pulling or raking up afk people in pvp lobbies and not helping main team. Example: 5Blue vs 5Red. 3 blues are afk, of those afk (away from key boards or game) are just dummy players filling up gaps so no one else joins the game that are not away from the game. This is just too big of a coincidence it's been happening frequently. This is just one of the main reasons I don't bother aiming for leaders boards.

Dmg exploit. I don't quite understand it but I've spend roughly over 1.5mil gold gearing my warrior to the best it can be, and yet I'm fixated and confused how a warrior manages to take down half of my life while I have 842 (not including buffs). I've seen rogues also accumulate 2.5k dmg with aimed shot charged up with critical % in their stats only at 10%. A player by the name of Raxin, a warrior took 1.5k dmg. I asked him how he made this damage and proceeds to call me "noob" or "no skill". Comment replies like this are the reason why sore winners are more to be suspected in cheating or in denial; avoiding not answering my question. Most legit players would reply in fashion of the mechanics in game.

Thankfully however, we can see their stats in game to better understand how or why they are exploiting or finding a loop hole in the game.

Ladycandyheal
01-28-2013, 07:54 PM
Definitely some dodgy stuff going on that some players are obviously taken advantage of.

PVP is in Beta which means its unfinished, so I hope STS patches the holes/major bugs and adds a lot of PVP content still missing.

Yakiniku
01-28-2013, 08:17 PM
1. Room padding to create an unfair numbers advantage stinks. I'm sorry to hear that it's happening.

2. As with any PC games, you'll always have script users. Unfortunate, but true.

3. Can't speak on the warrior damage, as I don't play one. Maybe it's a Vorpal or Dark Watch crit proc?

4. The 10% you're seeing on a rogue's stat page is not their crit damage modifier. That's their critical chance. Since I don't know ANY rogue that doesn't max out Aimed Shot, their crit damage modifier is typically 250%. That's on top of lowering your armor and adding an additional 15% impact damage from the get go. So the number you're seeing isn't completely unrealistic in terms of legit game mechanics.

5. Name calling, taunting... eh. You'll always get that in pvp. That's the beauty (not) of the internet. Anonymity. No real repercussions for juvenile behavior in an online game. Doesn't necessarily indicate a cheater though.

Astrocat
01-28-2013, 09:31 PM
Perfect thread, IMO. I also am maxed on my warrior, but still don't get why I get one shot killed my rogues, or 3 shots by SOME other warriors.

Cero
01-28-2013, 09:46 PM
noob!










lol joke:P

Raxin
01-28-2013, 11:43 PM
I would never cheat u just suk bro true story. Search my thread on pets in pvp before you judge me btw i was venge buffed capped dmg 21 in veil with charged crit idk if i did 1.5k. But i owned you fo sho.
And im on a phone.
And typing my name is against the rules here so mabye you can edit it to "the guy that beat me so bad I ragequit and cried cheater" instead of raxin.
Cheers mate

Ruejade
01-29-2013, 12:12 AM
Wow, you can't call people a cheater just because they did not want to tell you how they achieved something.
People have the right to keep their secret techniques and builds private.
Just because you can't achieve it doesn't mean that others can't. Didn't you take into consideration the possibility that people might have different skill sets and different skill rotations?
And posting names without definite proof, is quite offensive in my opinion.

And Rax, I hope you did not call him a noob lol. Chill dude.

Szangheili
01-29-2013, 12:23 AM
I would never cheat u just suk bro true story. Search my thread on pets in pvp before you judge me btw i was venge buffed capped dmg 21 in veil with charged crit idk if i did 1.5k. But i owned you fo sho.
And im on a phone.
And typing my name is against the rules here so mabye you can edit it to "the guy that beat me so bad I ragequit and cried cheater" instead of raxin.
Cheers mate
The grammar. :O Did you even go to school?

Nagaah
01-29-2013, 12:34 AM
The guy you're talking about sure isnt a gentleman haha. he might seem rude sometimes but he's actually a very nice and funny person. Dont judge the book by its cover, he's got a big heart lol <3
and he'd definitely never cheat. and he doesn't exploit either.. his build is just good. though i cant say he's so skilled considering how i kicked his butt last time we fought (lol jk buddy).
anyways you cant blame ppl for not sharing their secrets especially while pvp'ing. not sure it's the best place to chat...
and dropping names here ain't cool... not to mention it's against the rules...

Imwatchingyou
01-29-2013, 12:37 AM
Such a fascinating phenomena. Touches my heart when someone doesn't take the time to read the entire page. Name calling is quite the contrary to be offense.
I never said who or even labeled anyone as a cheater. I'm simply speaking in an opinionated fashion of what has been witnessed. However, since I "suk" perhaps I can show you my stats to dismay your accusations of my fine character:

HP: 3033
Dmg: 113.6
Armor: 824
Stats: All into str. Including str 5/5 maxed out

Skills: Skyward smash 2/5 Thundering Hammer
Windmill: 3/5 Blender, Cripple
Vengefull blood: 4/5 Savage Strikes, Focused rage, Adrenaline surge
Horn of Renew 3/5 Inc. Range, Increased Duration

While my "skills" differs from others, this set up is to capture flags and run, or kite players that like to attack in large groups. However, ever since I have set up this style, I am positive 10. Win: 93 Lose: 81. So, I'm pretty sure I don't suck. The first time I played it was at 10 wins with 30 losses. It's all about how you play with your tactics.

But in my humble opinion, there is cheating/exploiting going about. Much like the pet exploit posted in my thread, people called me names because they thought it was okay since everyone was doing. Still, it raises questions as to how if my stats are the same to another warrior, then surly I should be able to do that 1.5k dmg as well. Just saying, it raises a lot of a questions.

Thank you for reading.

Raxin
01-29-2013, 12:57 AM
Your stats arent same dude
135 dps
900ish armor
3.4k hp
Here

Nagaah
01-29-2013, 12:58 AM
maybe it was lag..
maybe an arrow came out of nowhere..
it happened to me to die seeing absolutely nobody but me on my screen.. oh well w/e..
it's just a game, so it's not such a big deal to me..
dont get me wrong, im not saying there's no cheating/exploiting at all. hopefully that will be fixed asap..

Testi
01-29-2013, 01:01 AM
That build needs work o.0

Imwatchingyou
01-29-2013, 01:18 AM
Your stats arent same dude

I didn't say your name. It was a metaphor (i.e. if a character had a COPY of exactly what I have). Once again, please learn to read the entire post before engaging in a thread.

Destructible
01-29-2013, 01:42 AM
1. An arrow could've shot you from the back.
2. Vorpal Swords have a chance to proc 100% crit chance. It's not unlikely that the damage of the warrior appears to be high.
3. Lag. In which case many skills were spammed but only a few had their damage shown.
4. As you said, cheat. The only 'exploitation' that i know of right now is scripting. There may be some other ways but that's unlikely, as these 'ways' turn up in the forums sooner or later.

These are just some cases that could attribute to your situtation. I'm not speaking out against you, rather just voicing my own opinion. :)

Astrocat
01-29-2013, 03:56 AM
I would never cheat u just suk bro true story. Search my thread on pets in pvp before you judge me btw i was venge buffed capped dmg 21 in veil with charged crit idk if i did 1.5k. But i owned you fo sho.
And im on a phone.
And typing my name is against the rules here so mabye you can edit it to "the guy that beat me so bad I ragequit and cried cheater" instead of raxin.
Cheers mate


Enough of ''you just suck''. What, you're telling us that you have skills? Being rich for max gear and pressing 4 buttons fast are skills? Stop these words ''you just suck'' it's kind of disturbing and will lead to arguments.

kateku
01-29-2013, 05:48 AM
Can someone tell me how a rouge pierce and stun others in one try? No cooldown time. Please help =)

Ruejade
01-29-2013, 06:28 AM
^ never tried, but based on my experience, equip a bow, charge normal atk, release charged stun and immediately pierce. 2 skills at a time.

Testi
01-29-2013, 11:59 AM
Encountered a rogue with the uncanny ability to fire all 4 arrow skills in a manner that consistently allowed the arrows to form a nice neatly packaged train of death that looked something like this. - - - - flying across the screen.

I can't get my rogue to do that . . .

Cashews
01-29-2013, 12:41 PM
Encountered a rogue with the uncanny ability to fire all 4 arrow skills in a manner that consistently allowed the arrows to form a nice neatly packaged train of death that looked something like this. - - - - flying across the screen.

I can't get my rogue to do that . . .
He's using a script. And there is only 3 arrow skills...

Jackyll
01-29-2013, 01:17 PM
So below are the changes that you need to make to your warrior:

1. no name dropping in a negative light, makes you look bad and makes that person a little ticked off (see Raxin's reaction lol)

2. i have no idea what you spent 1.5 mil gold on and you have, um, not so good base stats on your warrior lol no offence. your character needs work so i'm gonna try to help you out here.

3. equipment I use:

Dark Watch Sword of Assault (lvl 21)
Mighty Juggernaut Helm of will (lvl 21)
Mighty Juggernaut Armor of Savvy (lvl 21)
Watchman's Ring of Warfare(lvl 21) (25 strength, 3.1 damage and 26 armor)
Divine Pendant of Assault (lvl 21) (26 Strength, 13 dexterity and 2.8 damage)





HP: 3033 (my base 3167)
Dmg: 113.6 (my base is 136.3)
Armor: 824 (my base is 859)
Stats: All into str. Including str 5/5 maxed out (same)

Skills: Skyward smash 2/5 Thundering Hammer (also get quacking earth gives a 25% chance of stunning which is fantastic for PVP)
Windmill: 3/5 Blender, Cripple ( you want blender, prolong and increased radius on this)
Vengefull blood: 4/5 Savage Strikes, Focused rage, Adrenaline surge (max all of this skill no matter what)
Horn of Renew 3/5 Inc. Range, Increased Duration (for this you want increased duration and protective shield)



Now when you have all of those changes made (just the skills i don't expect you to go buy all the gear i have too) you need to use them in the right order.
So you're running into another player (or at most two)
charge HoR (get that 2 seconds of no damage)
skyward
windmill
blood
rinse and repeat lol

I've gone toe to toe with some of the top warriors in a 1 on 1 scenario (and i haven't been anywhere decent in pvp i think a few weeks ago i was on here asking for help) and the only thing that stopped us from continuing to fight was another team mate coming and finishing the other off. you can seriously last forever if you get the timing down on these skills.

ALL that being said, if you and I were to battle in a 1 vs 1 pvp scenario you would lose and not because you're a bad player or i'm better, none of that. Based simply on the fact that my gear is better and I've tweaked my skills a little more that's it.

and on any day by anyone, ANYONE can lose in PVP that's what makes it interesting.

so concludes Jackyll's public service announcement lol

EDIT the scripting and boosting that all a real problem I get that. There really is no way to fix that, it's an open beta test basically so people are going to find loop holes and use them. Nothing we can do but hope the eyes of STS are upon them and patch it or something.

Jackyll
01-29-2013, 01:18 PM
He's using a script. And there is only 3 arrow skills...

technically 3 skill arrows and if he's using a bow one normal attack arrow.

Raxin
01-29-2013, 01:18 PM
Encountered a rogue with the uncanny ability to fire all 4 arrow skills in a manner that consistently allowed the arrows to form a nice neatly packaged train of death that looked something like this. - - - - flying across the screen.

I can't get my rogue to do that . . .
He's using a script. And there is only 3 arrow skills...
Using a bow auto attack makes 4 bro

Testi
01-29-2013, 02:31 PM
He's using a script. And there is only 3 arrow skills...

Your correct theres 3 arrow skills, however there were 4 arrows in flight each time. It was so cool I asked him to come show me again a few times.Maybe the 4th was actually the first firing again ...

I'm Watching You Watch Me
01-29-2013, 03:34 PM
Still there is can be up to 5 or six arrows if timed rite in a nice straight line which if you blink at all your dead. Any rogue who has played with a controller knows that you can time all arrows and even get of a razor shield before your mana is gone. LOL the start of this posted star'd a two on one scenerio where a rogue shot shot two arrows one critical hit with A.S. at 37% crit. chance and and while in the veil up along wit the warrior giving it everything.

sincerely
"Merry Jane" Watson

Raxin
01-29-2013, 03:41 PM
So below are the changes that you need to make to your warrior:

1. no name dropping in a negative light, makes you look bad and makes that person a little ticked off (see Raxin's reaction lol)

2. i have no idea what you spent 1.5 mil gold on and you have, um, not so good base stats on your warrior lol no offence. your character needs work so i'm gonna try to help you out here.

3. equipment I use:

Dark Watch Sword of Assault (lvl 21)
Mighty Juggernaut Helm of will (lvl 21)
Mighty Juggernaut Armor of Savvy (lvl 21)
Watchman's Ring of Warfare(lvl 21) (25 strength, 3.1 damage and 26 armor)
Divine Pendant of Assault (lvl 21) (26 Strength, 13 dexterity and 2.8 damage)





HP: 3033 (my base 3167)
Dmg: 113.6 (my base is 136.3)
Armor: 824 (my base is 859)
Stats: All into str. Including str 5/5 maxed out (same)

Skills: Skyward smash 2/5 Thundering Hammer (also get quacking earth gives a 25% chance of stunning which is fantastic for PVP)
Windmill: 3/5 Blender, Cripple ( you want blender, prolong and increased radius on this)
Vengefull blood: 4/5 Savage Strikes, Focused rage, Adrenaline surge (max all of this skill no matter what)
Horn of Renew 3/5 Inc. Range, Increased Duration (for this you want increased duration and protective shield)



Now when you have all of those changes made (just the skills i don't expect you to go buy all the gear i have too) you need to use them in the right order.
So you're running into another player (or at most two)
charge HoR (get that 2 seconds of no damage)
skyward
windmill
blood
rinse and repeat lol

I've gone toe to toe with some of the top warriors in a 1 on 1 scenario (and i haven't been anywhere decent in pvp i think a few weeks ago i was on here asking for help) and the only thing that stopped us from continuing to fight was another team mate coming and finishing the other off. you can seriously last forever if you get the timing down on these skills.

ALL that being said, if you and I were to battle in a 1 vs 1 pvp scenario you would lose and not because you're a bad player or i'm better, none of that. Based simply on the fact that my gear is better and I've tweaked my skills a little more that's it.

and on any day by anyone, ANYONE can lose in PVP that's what makes it interesting.

so concludes Jackyll's public service announcement lol

EDIT the scripting and boosting that all a real problem I get that. There really is no way to fix that, it's an open beta test basically so people are going to find loop holes and use them. Nothing we can do but hope the eyes of STS are upon them and patch it or something.
I agree with all but skill rotation usage. I charge venge as I enter encounter >> tap sky >> charge horn ( by now you have absorbed their opening skill wave) >> tap wind >> tap sky >> charge reg attack this kills alot of the players I encounter. Alot of the time I run with rogue friends. Anyone seems OP using that rotation while rogue drops aim ( massive dmg and armor reduction% ) and veil (dmg+% and def%+) This exploit is also known as teamwork. If you initially talked to me like a person instead of slandering me ingame then in forum we could have avoided our negative encounter and shared a better gaming expierience. Now please edit my name out of your "cheat/exploit" story sir.

BodMaster
01-29-2013, 03:43 PM
Your correct theres 3 arrow skills, however there were 4 arrows in flight each time. It was so cool I asked him to come show me again a few times.Maybe the 4th was actually the first firing again ...

Like the others said, Bow user.

There's some "Mana" builds going around that will help continuous arrows.

With the right amount of mages and a team that know what they are doing, a mage can stun, shield, rogues stood behind warrior or shielded mage's shoot of as many arrows as possible. Mage's see their mana run down and use heal which fills up their mana along with more stuns be it charge normal attack of ice/fireball etc ligtning to finish off an AoE kill count.

That said, PC users love having shortcut commands and is a plus for them to playplay how they like or are used to. It happens in all games, hopefully StS will see how much of an "advantage" this is and remove them even if possible to disable while in PvP but allow in PvE.

See how I said "Advantage" not "Exploit", players are taking advantage of it, but doesn't mean they are "invincible" and when the commands are disabled we will see how "skillful" they really are ;)

Delphina
01-29-2013, 10:37 PM
Thread closed for the following reason:


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