DPS vs Damage - a detailed comparison

[JaytB]

Introduction

In this topic, I’d like to shed some light on the DPS vs Damage (Dmg) mechanics. For this, I went out to find the highest DPS build and compared it to the highest Dmg build, in terms of skill Dmg.

I hope this will help understand some people what stats to focus on when making a Sorcerer. I’m looking at it from a PvE perspective in this discussion.

Personally, I believe sorcerers are made to deal as much damage as possible. As a farmer, I want to be able to kill as quick as I can. An effectively equipped sorcerer can help farming times go down by a lot.

Personally, I’m using 4 Dmg skills (no heal) in my purely PvE based build. Dmg Skills mostly have a decent range to them, allowing you to nuke from afar. I use the auto attack button only when all 4 of my skills are on cooldown, which isn’t a lot of times given to low cooldown of most dmg skills.

So, in order to deal the maximum amount of Damage, I would have to max out my skill Damage and not my auto attack Damage.


What’s DPS

First off, let’s start with what DPS actually means.

I’m sure everyone knows it stands for Damage Per Second. But what some of you might not know is that DPS is actually a really simple calculation, as in Weapon Damage divided by Weapon speed (DPS=DMG/Weapon Speed). A slow weapon could have a weapon speed of 1.2x, meaning it will fire every 1.2 seconds, while a fast weapon could have a weapon speed of 0.5x seconds, meaning it could be fired 2 times a second.

So, as you can deduct from the calculation, a weapon with a higher speed (lower multiplier) shows more DPS because it can be fired quicker. DPS has nothing to do with your skill Dmg, it only refers to your auto attack button. It basically describes the possible Damage per second you can do on an enemy without armor, using your auto attack button. So basically, fast weapons with low Dmg output could show a high DPS number as compared to slow weapons with high Dmg output.

If the mechanics are similar as in the other STS games, real Dmg dealt is depending on the enemies’ armor. Let’s say that you’d deal 1000 Dmg on an enemy with 200 armor… This would mean the actual Dmg you dealt would be less than 1000, depending on how much enemies’ armor is taken into account. In PL for example, it can simply be calculated as follows: Real DMG = Dmg dealt – Enemies’ armor. Or, for the example above, real Dmg = 1000 – 200 = 800 real Dmg dealt.

Why is this important?
The more Dmg you’d deal, the less influence armor will have on your actual Dmg dealt.


tl;dr? Here’s the summary…



DPS=Dmg/weapon speed and refers to your auto attack dmg.
Higher speed weapons, in general, will give you a higher DPS but lower Dmg value.
Skill Damage is more important than Auto attack DMG for a high DMG output mage.



Give me the numbers

Let’s take a look at the highest (as far as I could find out) DPS vs the Highest Dmg (Damage) build.


The High DPS build

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/bbe0a46bdc9214644604e37fbd6ae2ca_zps19e64a5a.jpg


Let’s check out the the skill dmg…

Fireball: 245-306 Damage

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/8459ce8403c221726901b019401911a4_zps46db29fd.jpg

Lightning Strike: 376-470 Damage

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/d631762b9aaf58f967bde776f22112f5_zps43986016.jpg

Gale Force: 245-306 Damage

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/909cc69ab91d9278841756c302a3a9b8_zpsda79985a.jpg

Frost Bolt: 327-408 Damage

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/d2dcf422b3f0c45dde14d0dd311dada4_zps0b4026eb.jpg

Time Shift: 327-408 Damage

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/2fba2839f54680a1076d5013f7771fc3_zps348169e3.jpg

And just for comparison purposes…

Life Giver: Heals 653-817 Damage

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/67c53006755d4669c09bb806c63f6aaf_zpsf07ef5ae.jpg


The High Damage Build

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/65970f8a5e68536abd9101c7fc3bd2e0_zpsefb2d2ea.jpg

As you can see in the picture above, this build adds a nice amount of Damage while keeping your INT more or less the same. This to show that the only thing changed is the Damage value while keeping your INT value roughly the same. Notice the poor DPS performance? Does that mean this build does less Dmg?

In order to find out, let’s take a look at the skill Dmg output.

Fireball: 273-342 Damage (+28 minimum, and +36 maximum skill Dmg)

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/808e1a65eb40e25b8f158b90889fcf19_zps3c6bb151.jpg

Lightning Strike: 419-524 Damage (+43 min, +54 max Dmg)

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/34bbfd9a782750728d0f57aee388d6ec_zps9c3b6e65.jpg

Gale force: 273-342 Damage (+28 min, +36 max Dmg)

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/21997e5bbaf3bdafaf51bdf176d27aff_zpsf8c1e013.jpg

Frost Bolt: 364-456 Damage (+37 min, +48 max Dmg)

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/51fe8e7f4face9fb08f03341e8fbe0a3_zps63038848.jpg

Time Shift: 364-456 Damage (+37 min, +48 max Dmg)

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/4c8e64c9199df488bdf58c591962f5bb_zps1d9bf624.jpg

Lifegiver: Heals 729-911 Dmg (+76 min, +94 max Dmg heal)

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/661ecda7c1c961bfb540a9739bddea15_zpsa2a76ba4.jpg


Conclusion

Given you attack mostly with your skills as a pure Damage mage, it should be clear that skill damage is more important as compared to auto-attack Dmg. And when comparing skill damage for a high DPS build vs a High Dmg build, it’s clear that the high Dmg build is vastly superior, in therms of dealing damage, as compared to the high DPS build.

So, next time when someone tells you ‘your DPS sucks’, you might want to point them to this topic :D


As always, leave your constructive feedback below :)

[meanakric]

I fully agreed :encouragement:

[JaytB]

Nice job, this should get better mages out there since theres a ton of noob mages omg

I noticed. A couple of days ago someone called me a noob when I tried to explain him how DPS was overrated. And if you see how wanted those overpriced/way overrated lv25 rods for end-game mages are, it seems some people have no clue which stats actually matter. It's sad when people make remarks about your 'low DPS' while you actually deal way more Dmg as compared to high DPS mages.

[Dreuefesie]

I didn't know you played al?

It's really good that some one has put together a guild of this detail. Usually you just see damage is better than dps, but these theories were never explained like this.

[JaytB]

I didn't know you played al?

It's really good that some one has put together a guild of this detail. Usually you just see damage is better than dps, but these theories were never explained like this.

Haha yes, I started playing AL for almost 2 weeks now. Got a bit bored with the scenery in PL, so decided to give it a try. And you know me, I love tampering with stats and gear so AL gives me something to keep myself busy in the quiet hours, until PL gets something new :)

I'll PM you my IGN's in a bit, so we can meet up in game some time.

[Mysticaleagle]

Ah! Awesome guide!

2 things, if I may ask is your Build/Skill you use (with upgrades) and what gear you use? I'm your new mage fan. :D

[JaytB]

Ah! Awesome guide!

2 things, if I may ask is your Build/Skill you use (with upgrades) and what gear you use? I'm your new mage fan. :D

Thx :)

The high Dmg build consists out of the following:

* Mythic mage helm (lv26 sealord of security helm would do, but your skill Dmg would decrease with 15 points, or 327 max Dmg for firebolt)
* lv26 sealord wrappings of security
* Ring: Lv25 sea captain's ring of warfare. It strangely adds 3 more to your Dmg stat as compared to the lv26 one. Talking about weird mechanics lol.
* pendant: Lv25 Infused brooch of assault. The lv26 one adds +0.4 Dmg, but I haven't found one yet. I do know they exist though, since a friend of mine showed it to me.

All points went into INT for maximum damage.

My skills are (for now, cause I change all the time lol):

* Fire 5/5: I included the hit debuff because it seems to help me stay alive. Fairly high Dmg spell, AOE (damaging multiple enemies) with fairly low cooldown (4s). 14m range, so can be fired far away from danger.
* Lightning with 1st and 3rd skill unlocked (15% more Dmg and 250% Dmg on crit). Really low cooldown (3sec)/high Dmg skill. 12meter range, so ideal to just stay outside those nasty red circles that some bosses cast, while still being able to land your skill

Now, the next 2 skills are debatable and are more personal preference. I love time shift for its initial impact Dmg and DOT (Dmg over time), but I simply hate dropping that clock. Sometimes the drop locations seem to life their own live and a skill with fairly high cooldown (10sec) goes wasted. You also need to get almost on top of a boss to drop it in the right location and so risking your squishy mages' life.

I went with following 2 skills:

* Gale force with 1, 2 and 3. AOE Dmg, and I love to run fast lol. But seriously, that speed boost can save your life sometimes. It's also nice that the boost doesn't end before your skill cooldown, so you could almost continuously charge it up and keep running quick. I also included the 25% dodge self-buff that lasts for 3seconds. It's just long enough to get in your 9m range and out of it again with a fair chance to dodge any attacks and so stay alive. Skill cool down is medium (5.5s), but not as bad as time shift (10sec).
* frost bolt: with 1 and 2. 20% chance of an AOE attack (20%) and DOT + very low cooldown (3sec) and high range (14m) skill. DOT only works when charged though, as far as I could tell.

As passives:

Knowledge: 5/5
Might: 5/5 I'll probably put that into Dmg in the future, but until STS fixes the stats issue for Dmg increase (not being visible in stats page) I'll stay with might. Problem with my build is that it attracts agro like mad. And you need some health points 'when' (not 'if') a boss or mob comes for your tiny blue behind.

Pet: I went with Clyde (monkey), adds 10STR, 30 INT and 7% crit. The arcane ability isn't bad either, it's a chance to stun (I'd say 50/50 chance) and even works on bosses. It's only drawback is its fairly long cooldown time of around 18 seconds (if I remember correctly)

Colton might be better for the high crit buff for 2 or 3 seconds. Colton also has a fairly low cooldown of 7-8'ish seconds if I remember correct. And its arcane ability adds a lot of crit but lasts only very briefly.

Overall, I like Clyde better. For looks (lol), its stun and the permanent 7%crit increase. 10STR also adds another 100HP's to your health bar.

So, that's my build and gear. It does huge Dmg and gives fair protection but it sucks mana like crazy. If you can live with the mana usage, I'd definitely give it a shot :)

[Mysticaleagle]

Thx :)

The high Dmg build consists out of the following:

* Mythic mage helm (lv26 sealord of security helm would do, but your skill Dmg would decrease with 15 points, or 327 max Dmg for firebolt)
* lv26 sealord wrappings of security
* Ring: Lv25 sea captain's ring of warfare. It strangely adds 3 more to your Dmg stat as compared to the lv26 one. Talking about weird mechanics lol.
* pendant: Lv25 Infused brooch of assault. The lv26 one adds +0.4 Dmg, but I haven't found one yet. I do know they exist though, since a friend of mine showed it to me.

All points went into INT for maximum damage.

My skills are (for now, cause I change all the time lol):

* Fire 5/5: I included the hit debuff because it seems to help me stay alive. Fairly high Dmg spell, AOE (damaging multiple enemies) with fairly low cooldown (4s). 14m range, so can be fired far away from danger.
* Lightning with 1st and 3rd skill unlocked (15% more Dmg and 250% Dmg on crit). Really low cooldown (3sec)/high Dmg skill. 12meter range, so ideal to just stay outside those nasty red circles that some bosses cast, while still being able to land your skill

Now, the next 2 skills are debatable and are more personal preference. I love time shift for its initial impact Dmg and DOT (Dmg over time), but I simply hate dropping that clock. Sometimes the drop locations seem to life their own live and a skill with fairly high cooldown (10sec) goes wasted. You also need to get almost on top of a boss to drop it in the right location and so risking your squishy mages' life.

I went with following 2 skills:

* Gale force with 1, 2 and 3. AOE Dmg, and I love to run fast lol. But seriously, that speed boost can save your life sometimes. It's also nice that the boost doesn't end before your skill cooldown, so you could almost continuously charge it up and keep running quick. I also included the 25% dodge self-buff that lasts for 3seconds. It's just long enough to get in your 9m range and out of it again with a fair chance to dodge any attacks and so stay alive. Skill cool down is medium (5.5s), but not as bad as time shift (10sec).
* frost bolt: with 1 and 2. 20% chance of an AOE attack (20%) and DOT + very low cooldown (3sec) and high range (14m) skill. DOT only works when charged though, as far as I could tell.

As passives:

Knowledge: 5/5
Might: 5/5 I'll probably put that into Dmg in the future, but until STS fixes the stats issue for Dmg increase (not being visible in stats page) I'll stay with might. Problem with my build is that it attracts agro like mad. And you need some health points 'when' (not 'if') a boss or mob comes for your tiny blue behind.

Pet: I went with Clyde (monkey), adds 10STR, 30 INT and 7% crit. The arcane ability isn't bad either, it's a chance to stun (I'd say 50/50 chance) and even works on bosses. It's only drawback is its fairly long cooldown time of around 18 seconds (if I remember correctly)

Colton might be better for the high crit buff for 2 or 3 seconds. Colton also has a fairly low cooldown of 7-8'ish seconds if I remember correct. And its arcane ability adds a lot of crit but lasts only very briefly.

Overall, I like Clyde better. For looks (lol), its stun and the permanent 7%crit increase. 10STR also adds another 100HP's to your health bar.

So, that's my build and gear. It does huge Dmg and gives fair protection but it sucks mana like crazy. If you can live with the mana usage, I'd definitely give it a shot :)

Dude! Mate! Man! Just wow.
Thanks for that! Let my thanks come back, I'll thank these 10x! :)

[jb57542]

Great guide one way to squeeze a bit more damage is buy brutality ring and pendant. They give best DMG stats to mage but are expensive right now for lvl 25.

[GoodSyntax]

Terrific guide JaytB!

I get the question all the time in PvP with my Rogue about what's your DPS. When I say 174, they usually laugh, but when I say my DMG is 150, all of a sudden it's o.O

DMG is so much more important for skill damage that I am glad that you took the time to show what the impact is.

Just out of curiosity, have you figured out what impact the Bonus Dmg stat plays? I thought that it was a multiplier for your weapon damage, but my calculations don't line up. I am usually off by 10-15% which is significant for statistical purposes. I sure wish that STS listed either DMG or Speed on weapons so we can calculate the other values.

At any rate, wonderful work on the guide. Two thumbs up!!

[JaytB]

Great guide one way to squeeze a bit more damage is buy brutality ring and pendant. They give best DMG stats to mage but are expensive right now for lvl 25.

Thanks! Didn't know that. The ring adds 0.2dmg and 153 HP, but loses 30 armor. I didnt find a better amulet though, maybe it's just not for sale at the moment.

[JaytB]

Terrific guide JaytB!

I get the question all the time in PvP with my Rogue about what's your DPS. When I say 174, they usually laugh, but when I say my DMG is 150, all of a sudden it's o.O

DMG is so much more important for skill damage that I am glad that you took the time to show what the impact is.

Just out of curiosity, have you figured out what impact the Bonus Dmg stat plays? I thought that it was a multiplier for your weapon damage, but my calculations don't line up. I am usually off by 10-15% which is significant for statistical purposes. I sure wish that STS listed either DMG or Speed on weapons so we can calculate the other values.

At any rate, wonderful work on the guide. Two thumbs up!!

Sorry for the double post, somehow missed yours O.o

Someone told me that in order to have high crit you'd have to sacrifice Dmg on a rogue, but I haven't played rogue much yet so can't be sure. I would have thought Dmg would matter more though, especially with relative low crit numbers.

As for the bonus Dmg, I tried several calculations as well but haven't figured it out yet. And I agree that it would've been nice to get wep Dmg and speed instead of DPS in the description.

[GoodSyntax]

It's not so much that you have to sacrifice DMG for Crit, it's more that you have to choose between Crit and Dodge.

Instead of going all-out on any one stat, I choose to go with a high damage/high crit build with reasonable survivability statistics (Dodge & Armor). I had a Red Beard <something or other> of Security, which added more DMG, HP, but I ended losing 130 mana, which ultimately nerfed by ability to deliver damage.

My Lv 22 Rogue's Stats:

25347

It's all a balancing act, because I have builds that get me to almost 30% crit, builds with >30% dodge, builds with >155 DMG, builds with >800 armor, but each one of these extreme builds introduces a significant weakness. My DMG build had low armor and such low mana that I couldn't fully realize the added DMG because without mana, I can't use my skills. My "tanky" build has such low DMG and Crit that I had a hard time killing anybody. My Dodge build was totally worthless (I believe that Dodge is an overrated stat, especially at endgame, because you really aren't dodging that often).

Rogues don't get the benefit of shielding, so, with extreme builds, they are like Staff Mages in PL - awesome nukers, but constantly one-hitted.

[CrimsonTider]

ZOMG!! It's a REAL guide!! Who authorized you to do such a thing to these forums??

[CosmoxKramer]

Nice guide

With the new Higher Damage weapons and the lack of fast lvl 26 weapons, Damage is definitely the way to go. At 21 max, damage wasn't as high, and i was getting a Rod of assault to have higher total dps than any gun.

There are 3 different scenarios where you play the game 3 different ways
PVP, trash clearing, boss fights

For PVP, crits and charging abilities is king because of the secondary effects and spiking damage.
For clearing trash, aoe is king with CC abilities being right up there on importance.
When you talk about which build high DPS or Damage damage does more damage, the only way to compare is 1:1 versus a boss or even a practice dummy.

I ran your numbers through my Sorcerer Calc (in sig)
On the DPS build i put the following priority
1 weapon
2 frost
3 lightning
4 fire
5 gale

i got the following assuming 45% armor reduction, and about 5% miss/dodge. I have done a lot of testing and it appears that crits do about 125% normal damage (except your lightning)
total DPS with above assumptions ranged from 452-463

Then using your High damage build i plugged in the numbers and i got
total DPS with above assumptions ranged from 504-521

For you Jaytb, i think you are really missing out on using Colton. I haven't built in his 6s of 15% crit Arcane ability into the calculator, but it does factor in the 10% damage. I think you are over valuing Crit and undervaluing Passive Damage% and Pet Damage%. Using your High Damage build:
total DPS with Colton (not using arcane) is 546-563
<Edit>fixed the value above with colton<edit>

My calculator is 300sec long to better average out your damage over a long boss fight.

[JaytB]

It's not so much that you have to sacrifice DMG for Crit, it's more that you have to choose between Crit and Dodge.

Instead of going all-out on any one stat, I choose to go with a high damage/high crit build with reasonable survivability statistics (Dodge & Armor). I had a Red Beard <something or other> of Security, which added more DMG, HP, but I ended losing 130 mana, which ultimately nerfed by ability to deliver damage.

My Lv 22 Rogue's Stats:

25347

It's all a balancing act, because I have builds that get me to almost 30% crit, builds with >30% dodge, builds with >155 DMG, builds with >800 armor, but each one of these extreme builds introduces a significant weakness. My DMG build had low armor and such low mana that I couldn't fully realize the added DMG because without mana, I can't use my skills. My "tanky" build has such low DMG and Crit that I had a hard time killing anybody. My Dodge build was totally worthless (I believe that Dodge is an overrated stat, especially at endgame, because you really aren't dodging that often).

Rogues don't get the benefit of shielding, so, with extreme builds, they are like Staff Mages in PL - awesome nukers, but constantly one-hitted.

It's the same for mages, I mean the balancing act. I can get way more armor and health, but it will inevitably reduce my Dmg output. My build sucks mana like crazy, but for PvE that's not an issue because we can use mana pots.

I don't know much about rogues yet, I just started with a warrior and mage. I might come to you for advice on them if I ever decide to lvl my lv13 noob rogue a bit higher.



ZOMG!! It's a REAL guide!! Who authorized you to do such a thing to these forums??

Lol, ikr! Hope I won't get banned :D



Nice guide

With the new Higher Damage weapons and the lack of fast lvl 26 weapons, Damage is definitely the way to go. At 21 max, damage wasn't as high, and i was getting a Rod of assault to have higher total dps than any gun.

There are 3 different scenarios where you play the game 3 different ways
PVP, trash clearing, boss fights

For PVP, crits and charging abilities is king because of the secondary effects and spiking damage.
For clearing trash, aoe is king with CC abilities being right up there on importance.
When you talk about which build high DPS or Damage damage does more damage, the only way to compare is 1:1 versus a boss or even a practice dummy.

I ran your numbers through my Sorcerer Calc (in sig)
On the DPS build i put the following priority
1 weapon
2 frost
3 lightning
4 fire
5 gale

i got the following assuming 45% armor reduction, and about 5% miss/dodge. I have done a lot of testing and it appears that crits do about 125% normal damage (except your lightning)
total DPS with above assumptions ranged from 452-463

Then using your High damage build i plugged in the numbers and i got
total DPS with above assumptions ranged from 504-521

For you Jaytb, i think you are really missing out on using Colton. I haven't built in his 6s of 15% crit Arcane ability into the calculator, but it does factor in the 10% damage. I think you are over valuing Crit and undervaluing Passive Damage% and Pet Damage%. Using your High Damage build:
total DPS with Colton (not using arcane) is 557-572
<Edit>I forgot to subtract 7% crit but that is probably just 5-10 dps, I'll fix when I get home<edit>

My calculator is 300sec long to better average out your damage over a long boss fight.

Maybe share your calculator? Is it an Excel sheet or something else? I'd like to have a look at it sometime, if possible of course :)

As for crit doing 125% Dmg, I didn't know that. I assumed that like in PL, it would be 200% Dmg. If it's indeed just 125%, you're probably right about Colton. The crit buff only lasts 2 or 3 seconds though, so about half of your cooldown time. But yeah, I might give Colton another try and see where it leads me.

Thanks for your input!

[CosmoxKramer]

I posted the calculator in my signature. It's shared in google docs

I haven't tested crit damage since the KI patch. Too busy leveling when I can vs testing so far. Colton's arcane ability says it lasts 6s. Robots 40% crit buff is only 3s, but Colton gives 15% crit to the party instead of 1 person. So the 15% shoul last 60-75% of cool down.

[drgrimmy]

Good review. You should take note of one important point, armor and damage reduction works differently in al than in pl. Although I still agree with going with a higher damage build, the mechanics in al makes dps not as useless a stat as in pl. In al damage inflicted is a factor of your damage times a percentage damage reduction based on your enemies armor. It is not damage minus armor like it is in pl. You can see how this distinction makes a huge difference...

In PL: say you have two weapons with 300 dps, one a high dps weapon with 100 damage and the second a high damage weapon with 300 damage. Throw in the mix an enemy with 75 armor. With the high dps weapon in one second you will only do (100-75)x3=75 damage. With the high damage weapon in one second you will do 300-75=225 damage. Here you can clearly see that a high dps weapon is not as effective as a high damage weapon against an enemy with high armor.

In AL: say you have two weapons with 300 dps, one a high dps weapon with 100 damage and the second a high damage weapon with 300 damage. Throw in the mix an enemy with 75 armor, which for the sake of this argument (since the numbers are not really known) yeilds 50% damage reduction. With the high dps weapon in one second you will do (100x0.50)x3=150 damage. With the high damage weapon in one second you will do 300x0.50=150 damage. So disregarding skill damage (which is a huge deal with mages and mob clearing), the same amount of damage is done to a single enemy over time with a high dps versus a high damage weapon with the same dps.

Again, needless to say I would always choose a high damage weapon over a high dps weapon as I focus my build to clearing mobs and charging aoe skills. I just wanted to clarify the armor and damage reduction side of things, as this makes dps not as useless a stat in al as it is in pl.

[JaytB]

Good review. You should take note of one important point, armor and damage reduction works differently in al than in pl. Although I still agree with going with a higher damage build, the mechanics in al makes dps not as useless a stat as in pl. In al damage inflicted is a factor of your damage times a percentage damage reduction based on your enemies armor. It is not damage minus armor like it is in pl. You can see how this distinction makes a huge difference...

In PL: say you have two weapons with 300 dps, one a high dps weapon with 100 damage and the second a high damage weapon with 300 damage. Throw in the mix an enemy with 75 armor. With the high dps weapon in one second you will only do (100-75)x3=75 damage. With the high damage weapon in one second you will do 300-75=225 damage. Here you can clearly see that a high dps weapon is not as effective as a high damage weapon against an enemy with high armor.

In AL: say you have two weapons with 300 dps, one a high dps weapon with 100 damage and the second a high damage weapon with 300 damage. Throw in the mix an enemy with 75 armor, which for the sake of this argument (since the numbers are not really known) yeilds 50% damage reduction. With the high dps weapon in one second you will do (100x0.50)x3=150 damage. With the high damage weapon in one second you will do 300x0.50=150 damage. So disregarding skill damage (which is a huge deal with mages and mob clearing), the same amount of damage is done to a single enemy over time with a high dps versus a high damage weapon with the same dps.

Again, needless to say I would always choose a high damage weapon over a high dps weapon as I focus my build to clearing mobs and charging aoe skills. I just wanted to clarify the armor and damage reduction side of things, as this makes dps not as useless a stat in al as it is in pl.

I don't think there are weapons with .33x (3x a second as in your example) weapon speed, are there? Maybe the example is a bit extreme but I get what you're saying. This mechanic would indeed explain why high DPS weapons are more effective as compared to PL.

But that's if you auto-attack (or however it's called here). I got hardly any dead spots in my skill rotation so I don't really get a chance to use the attack button a lot. And then there's that generally terrible weapon range, especially with those lv25 high DPS/rods.

Anyway, thanks for clarifying. Learning something new everyday :)

[CosmoxKramer]

Hey Jay, i fixed the value with Colton and removed the 7% crit from Clyde. it dropped the total DPS by 9.

[CosmoxKramer]

I don't think there are weapons with .33x (3x a second as in your example) weapon speed, are there? Maybe the example is a bit extreme but I get what you're saying. This mechanic would indeed explain why high DPS weapons are more effective as compared to PL.

But that's if you auto-attack (or however it's called here). I got hardly any dead spots in my skill rotation so I don't really get a chance to use the attack button a lot. And then there's that generally terrible weapon range, especially with those lv25 high DPS/rods.

Anyway, thanks for clarifying. Learning something new everyday :)

actually you can really maximize your dps by AA just before skill attacks. There doesn't seem to be any GCD (global cool-down) when you do a AA, but there is about a .5s GCD after each sorcerer spell. So, max dps is AA immediately followed by skill, AA skill, etc.

[drgrimmy]

I don't think there are weapons with .33x (3x a second as in your example) weapon speed, are there? Maybe the example is a bit extreme but I get what you're saying. This mechanic would indeed explain why high DPS weapons are more effective as compared to PL.

But that's if you auto-attack (or however it's called here). I got hardly any dead spots in my skill rotation so I don't really get a chance to use the attack button a lot. And then there's that generally terrible weapon range, especially with those lv25 high DPS/rods.

Anyway, thanks for clarifying. Learning something new everyday :)

Yeah, I don't think there are any weapons that attack 3x/sec. Just a gross simplification for illustrating a point :)

I agree with you, with a 4 damage skill build and charging all of you skills i hardly find a dead spot to get in quick "auto-attacks." Furthermore, when fighting a boss I feel that the occasional push back of the rifles from the "auto-attack" is somewhat counterproductive to the team, especially if it moves the boss out of a good postion. I therefor also prefer a high damage and not a high dps build. Although, before the days of the rifles, for boss fighting I usually found it best not to charge skills (as the charging only slightly increases damage and is more for mob control effects), to spam all of the skills immediately after a buff from your pet, and to spam the flamestrike rod between the uncharged skills.

[JaytB]

actually you can really maximize your dps by AA just before skill attacks. There doesn't seem to be any GCD (global cool-down) when you do a AA, but there is about a .5s GCD after each sorcerer spell. So, max dps is AA immediately followed by skill, AA skill, etc.

Interesting, I usually start with charged ice for the possible DOT proc. But yeah, I try and AA as much as possible in between skills, the range of guns is also long enough to make them actually useful. You're not charging any skills in your boss-kill rotation? I've been wondering what would cause the highest Dmg possible, but sometimes the descriptions of what charged vs uncharged skills do are not very clear to me.

[CosmoxKramer]

from what i found at lvl21 max with my spreadsheet DO NOT charge anything on a boss. timeshift wants you to think it's good, but a charge takes 1s + .5s GCD, because of that you could get in 1 more AA in during that lost 1s and you get like 11 damage dot for ~8ish seconds.

i do the same, but i start with a charged Time to start. I found that the +3s duration on frost make the dot go on each cast, charged or not
the thing that works better when charging is the aoe on impact, causing frost/slow to multiple mobs. after the initial TS charge, i just AA then skill, without charging anything.

[Energizeric]

Jay: First things first, I still like shanks better than bow!! haha

As Drgrimmy mentioned, armor works different in AL than in PL. I can't find the thread, but it was explained by a developer a while ago. Basically armor deducts a percentage of the hit rather than a flat amount. So unlike in PL, two hits of 200 dmg each is the same as one hit of 400 dmg. The percentage deduction depends on your level, your opponents level, and how much armor you have.

But you are correct that neither has much to do with skill damage, and as a mage you are clearly better off with high dmg than high dps. The only exception to this I have noticed is if you are farming mobs and don't want to spend much on mana pots then you can do just fine with high dps weapon (like a clever flamestrike rod) by spamming the attack, non-charged.

A lot of this also depends on your build. If you have 4 offensive skills like you do in your build, then of course you don't need to ever use the regular non-skill attack as you will always have another skill to go to. But for some who may have PvP builds with only 2 offensive skills (maybe they have shield & heal as their other 2 skills), then they are going to have time waiting for those skills to cool down, and they may be better off with the high dps weapon that they can spam attack at those times.

[Aintgerman]

Nice guide man!

[JaytB]

Thanks for the positive reactions and knowledge shared. I'm happy I made the thread, you guys helped me understand the AL mechanics a lot better! :D

I'll react on the individual comments tomorrow (getting real late over here). I just wanted to share my final build. I did like someone suggested in this thread and got the 'of brutality' ring and amulet. I loose about 30 armor, but gain well over 300 Health points and about 2-3 skill dmg (344 max dmg for fire ball, 527 max lightning).

I haven't tested it yet, but I guess survivability is a bit better with 300 more HP as compared to 30 armor?

Anyway, here's a screen shot...

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/Screenshot_2013-03-02-03-36-46-1_zps236ab43b.png

[CosmoxKramer]

Pimp damage still

[JaytB]

from what i found at lvl21 max with my spreadsheet DO NOT charge anything on a boss. timeshift wants you to think it's good, but a charge takes 1s + .5s GCD, because of that you could get in 1 more AA in during that lost 1s and you get like 11 damage dot for ~8ish seconds.

i do the same, but i start with a charged Time to start. I found that the +3s duration on frost make the dot go on each cast, charged or not
the thing that works better when charging is the aoe on impact, causing frost/slow to multiple mobs. after the initial TS charge, i just AA then skill, without charging anything.

Thanks for the info. I adapted my skill rotation accordingly and noticed I could finish some test runs a bit quicker :)



Jay: First things first, I still like shanks better than bow!! haha

As Drgrimmy mentioned, armor works different in AL than in PL. I can't find the thread, but it was explained by a developer a while ago. Basically armor deducts a percentage of the hit rather than a flat amount. So unlike in PL, two hits of 200 dmg each is the same as one hit of 400 dmg. The percentage deduction depends on your level, your opponents level, and how much armor you have.

But you are correct that neither has much to do with skill damage, and as a mage you are clearly better off with high dmg than high dps. The only exception to this I have noticed is if you are farming mobs and don't want to spend much on mana pots then you can do just fine with high dps weapon (like a clever flamestrike rod) by spamming the attack, non-charged.

A lot of this also depends on your build. If you have 4 offensive skills like you do in your build, then of course you don't need to ever use the regular non-skill attack as you will always have another skill to go to. But for some who may have PvP builds with only 2 offensive skills (maybe they have shield & heal as their other 2 skills), then they are going to have time waiting for those skills to cool down, and they may be better off with the high dps weapon that they can spam attack at those times.

First off LOL at the shanks over bow remark, that was already a while ago haha :)

About your remark on saving mana pots, IMO if someone wants to run an elite dungeon they should at least be prepared to to use some mana and/or health pots. Too often I see people just standing around while the rest tries and kill the boss, or they start to attack fiercely and then go sit in a corner and wait for their mana to regenerate. But yeah, I get what you're saying.

[Noblesse]

Nice guide!

[Valsacar]

Your build is basically the way I was going, but I sacrificed a little health for crit. I've found at 15% crit you get them often enough to really see a difference (right now at 17.13), so that's my goal. Right now just missing the ring and amulet (ring for sure, amulet I'll want to test).

[ZigZag]

well written I was looking for BIS items, and now I have found them!

[Valsacar]

I think I got mine done the way I wanted it, 400 less health (about 1 hit, or less, in elite KI) but 5% more crit.

[JaytB]

I think I got mine done the way I wanted it, 400 less health (about 1 hit, or less, in elite KI) but 5% more crit.

Could you possibly post a screenshot of your stats and what pet you have equipped with it? I been playing with the idea of a crit mage for a while now, I'd be very interested to see the stats on a maxed crit mage :)

[JaytB]

Oops, wrong thread O.o

<--- forum noob

[JaytB]

@Cosmo

I'd still go for the gun for 1 reason, range. Your calculation adds the max dps/dmg possible right? That would mean you'd actually have to press the AA button about 2x a second (assuming a .5x wep speed), assuming you never miss once. If this reasoning is correct, I'd have to be: 1. Never missing an AA, which seems nearly impossible if you'll simultaneously have to press your skills 2. Very close to the boss, since the range of AA on a rod is really small (putting your squishy life at serious risk).

So would it be a stretch to say that the practical dps/dmg would be lower in the end? Or am I overlooking something?

Edit: Forgot to mention I'm using Colton more now. It seems that you're correct when you said the dmg output would be higher. I simple tested it with timed runs, and they went a tad faster when using Colton. There are still specific maps that I use Clyde for though, mainly when I need more HP.

[CosmoxKramer]

Yes the calculator is a perfect scenario...a person not physically missing any AA. But the way I see it if u miss some with a Flamestrike (.55 a/s) you may miss a few less with a oracle gun (.89 a/s)

And F me I think I bugged something out with the CDs on the skills...not working now...grr...never ending work..late tonight, ill play with it tomorrow.

[JaytB]

Yes the calculator is a perfect scenario...a person not physically missing any AA. But the way I see it if u miss some with a Flamestrike (.55 a/s) you may miss a few less with a oracle gun (.89 a/s)

And F me I think I bugged something out with the CDs on the skills...not working now...grr...never ending work..late tonight, ill play with it tomorrow.

Haha, I still haven't had the chance to look into your calculator. Family and work keep me very occupied.

But yeah, something doesn't seem right. When I did timed (solo) runs with the flamestrike rod, I was consistently slower as compared to that crystal of force. If I have some spare time during the week/weekend I'll dive into you calculator, maybe we can work out the kinks together :)

[Energizeric]

Just thought I would ask, but are you accounting for the lightning upgrade that gives 250% crit?

[CosmoxKramer]

yes

[CosmoxKramer]

Sorry again for the errors. I deleted my old post. It seems i had made a little copy/paste error and forgot to fix some formulas on the cooldowns for spells. So every spell was running witha 3s cooldown (big error for Time Shift) etc. Now it is fixed. I also added in a 0.1-0.4s user error to the Auto Attack, so that it has a built in deduction (so that it is not a 'perfect world' calculator). I also had never added in the ability to calculate the 0-5% passive Damage %, but i did now.

Here are the #'s with the changes i made to the tool:
All based on 140% crit damage (unless LS 250%). Priority was (weapon, time shift, frost, lightning, fire)
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 9.32% crit Clyde = 347
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 11.13 crit, Clyde = 361
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 2.32% crit Colton = 378
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 4.13 crit, Colton = 392



Now let's play around with your numbers with 5% crit passive also added in. Also i adjusted the CritDam% to 200% on the last 2 lines for curiosity.
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 14.32% crit Clyde, CritDam 140% = 353 (~2% dps increase for 5% crit)
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 16.13 crit, Clyde, CritDam 140% = 370 (~2% dps increase for 5% crit)
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 14.32% crit Clyde, CritDam 200% = 355
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 16.13 crit, Clyde, CritDam 200% = 371

If we did Passive Damage % instead of Passive Crit we get
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 9.32% crit, Clyde, CritDam 140%, 5% passive Damage = 365 (~5% increase)
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 11.13 crit, Clyde, CritDam 140%, 5% passive Damage = 380 (~5% increase)


I just don't think, with crit and crit damage being so low, that crit is a viable alternative to +damage items. (and boom go the item prices...oh wait probably only 2 people will read this long post)

My excel calculator has been updated and saved and is more automatic as well. I found that Mix/Max damage of Skills is based on 89%-111% of the Average damage. Average damage is calculated by a modifier * Damage
Fireball/Gale Force = 1.35 modifier
Lightning Bolt, Time Shift, Frost Bolt = 1.8
+15% Lightning Bolt = 2.07
Lifegiver = 3.6

[CosmoxKramer]

I also switched in Gale Force for Time Shift
Priority was (weapon, Gale Force, frost, lightning, fire)
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 11.13 crit, Clyde = 371 (10 more dps over TS)

Priority was (weapon, frost, lightning, fire, Gale Force)
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 11.13 crit, Clyde = 375 (14 more dps over TS)

Gale Force does the least net damage per spell cast (including upgrades), so it probably should be be last on priority, but because you can cast it almost 2x Timeshift, it does beat out TS on total DPS by a bit

[drgrimmy]

Hey Cosmo, since you seem to like crunching numbers... I think it would be usefull to compare overall dps to a mob of say 5 enemies assuming that the aoe based skills hit all 5 of the enemies and the weapon/non-aoe attacks hit only a single enemy. I think this would be a useful calculation for a tomb running or mob clearing build and would clearly show the superiority of the high damage builds with the rifle.

[CosmoxKramer]

Yep, sounds like fun. I think it would be a matter of multiplying each Skill line by *5. Would you want me to Charge all my skills? I generally charge my skills in W4 clears for the CC, DoTs, etc.

<edit> i guess the damage would be different per mob it hits, but in the long run of averages, i think it would be safe to *5. I may just update the calculator to allow you to select between 1-5 mobs and your Weapon only hits *mob count if you select Charge =yes.

[JaytB]

Sorry again for the errors. I deleted my old post. It seems i had made a little copy/paste error and forgot to fix some formulas on the cooldowns for spells. So every spell was running witha 3s cooldown (big error for Time Shift) etc. Now it is fixed. I also added in a 0.1-0.4s user error to the Auto Attack, so that it has a built in deduction (so that it is not a 'perfect world' calculator). I also had never added in the ability to calculate the 0-5% passive Damage %, but i did now.

Here are the #'s with the changes i made to the tool:
All based on 140% crit damage (unless LS 250%). Priority was (weapon, time shift, frost, lightning, fire)
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 9.32% crit Clyde = 347
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 11.13 crit, Clyde = 361
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 2.32% crit Colton = 378
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 4.13 crit, Colton = 392



Now let's play around with your numbers with 5% crit passive also added in. Also i adjusted the CritDam% to 200% on the last 2 lines for curiosity.
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 14.32% crit Clyde, CritDam 140% = 353 (~2% dps increase for 5% crit)
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 16.13 crit, Clyde, CritDam 140% = 370 (~2% dps increase for 5% crit)
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 14.32% crit Clyde, CritDam 200% = 355
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 16.13 crit, Clyde, CritDam 200% = 371

If we did Passive Damage % instead of Passive Crit we get
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 9.32% crit, Clyde, CritDam 140%, 5% passive Damage = 365 (~5% increase)
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 11.13 crit, Clyde, CritDam 140%, 5% passive Damage = 380 (~5% increase)


I just don't think, with crit and crit damage being so low, that crit is a viable alternative to +damage items. (and boom go the item prices...oh wait probably only 2 people will read this long post)

My excel calculator has been updated and saved and is more automatic as well. I found that Mix/Max damage of Skills is based on 89%-111% of the Average damage. Average damage is calculated by a modifier * Damage
Fireball/Gale Force = 1.35 modifier
Lightning Bolt, Time Shift, Frost Bolt = 1.8
+15% Lightning Bolt = 2.07
Lifegiver = 3.6

Great job! Thanks for those numbers :)

It kind of was to be expected that 5% more Dmg > 5% more crit with current stats of endgame sorcerers.

Now the numbers of flamestrike rod vs crystal gun also match up with the timed runs I did. As said, they were slightly faster when using the gun, as is reflected in your Dmg output being a bit higher. I also tested Colton in timed runs, and again it matched the numbers (slightly faster runs). You were definitely right about missing out on Colton. The only thing I still use Clyde for is when I need the maximum amount of health I can get, without sacrificing too much Dmg. And then you didn't (as far as I understood) even took Colton's 15crit buff into account. So yeah, for Dmg pets Colton is most probably the way to go.

I think the user error of 0.1-0.4 also reflects a more realistic Dmg output number.

In any case, thanks for the number crunching, I can imagine it was a lot of work. I'm glad to see the numbers line up with my own tests. I'm definitely going to play around with your calculator soon :)

[drgrimmy]

Yep, sounds like fun. I think it would be a matter of multiplying each Skill line by *5. Would you want me to Charge all my skills? I generally charge my skills in W4 clears for the CC, DoTs, etc.

Yes assuming charging all skills, as I think most people tend to charge them for the addded effects/crowd control properties you gain from charging. I would also think no charging on weapon.

[JaytB]

I also switched in Gale Force for Time Shift
Priority was (weapon, Gale Force, frost, lightning, fire)
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 11.13 crit, Clyde = 371 (10 more dps over TS)

Priority was (weapon, frost, lightning, fire, Gale Force)
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 11.13 crit, Clyde = 375 (14 more dps over TS)

Gale Force does the least net damage per spell cast (including upgrades), so it probably should be be last on priority, but because you can cast it almost 2x Timeshift, it does beat out TS on total DPS by a bit

Cool, that was the first thing I wanted to test with your calculator LOL! Thanks for doing it for me.

I kind of like gale, it's an easy spell that also does AOE Dmg when charged and doesn't have such a horrible cooldown time as compared to time-shift. Time-shift definitely has some crowd control advantages, but I usually manage to push stray mobs back into position with gale. And of course, who doesn't like to run fast haha. I didn't expect it to actually deal more Dmg as compared to time-shift, makes me all the more happy I got rid of TS to make room for Gale :)

Looking forward to the results of what Grimm asked you about.

[CosmoxKramer]

yep, i don't generally charge the weapon, too slow for little impact (except added stun chance) but it still screws with the stun chance. Plus i Charged damage = to 1.5* normal damage. Hard to test because everything dies so fast. I'll try and test it again on the travelers outpost daily today a few times before making this change.

[CosmoxKramer]

Here is what i got, 5 mobs, 140% crit (except LS 250%)

Priority was (weapon, time shift, frost, fire, gale)
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 9.32% crit, Clyde = 1,165
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 11.13 crit, Clyde = 1,297
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 2.32% crit, Colton = 1,269
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 4.13 crit, Colton = 1,422
I tested these without anything being charged but Time Shift for Countdown of Pain and you only lose 80 dps for Oracle gun and Clyde combo


Priority was (weapon, frost, fire, gale, lightning). Funny thing is with this priority and Charging all skills, but not weapons, you never get to cast Lightning a single time. Obviously over the length of a run, when there is just a mob or 2 left and you don't need to charge you skill you can start popping off the spells.
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 9.32% crit, Clyde = 1,081
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 11.13 crit, Clyde = 1,208
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 2.32% crit, Colton = 1,172
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 4.13 crit, Colton = 1,316

[Erdnase]

Very nice guide man. But i hate you for making it! lol. Giving away all the good secrets. haha no its really good thx for making :cool:

[drgrimmy]

Here is what i got, 5 mobs, 140% crit (except LS 250%)

Priority was (weapon, time shift, frost, fire, gale)
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 9.32% crit, Clyde = 1,165
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 11.13 crit, Clyde = 1,297
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 2.32% crit, Colton = 1,269
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 4.13 crit, Colton = 1,422
I tested these without anything being charged but Time Shift for Countdown of Pain and you only lose 80 dps for Oracle gun and Clyde combo


Priority was (weapon, frost, fire, gale, lightning). Funny thing is with this priority and Charging all skills, but not weapons, you never get to cast Lightning a single time. Obviously over the length of a run, when there is just a mob or 2 left and you don't need to charge you skill you can start popping off the spells.
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 9.32% crit, Clyde = 1,081
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 11.13 crit, Clyde = 1,208
Flamestrike, 204.1 Damage, 2.32% crit, Colton = 1,172
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 4.13 crit, Colton = 1,316

Thanks, great work! Actually I am suprised. I was expecting more than a little bit over a 10% advantage of the rifle over the rod.

Usually with a four offensive skill configuration I have time to charge all of my skills and don't really use the weapon. With the four offensive skill configuration it is probably better to use lightening than the weapon as I would think it would result in significantly better damage. I find that weapon "auto-attack" only really comes in to play when: 1) I am fighting a boss with a 4 offensive skill configuration and I am not charging all of my skills; or 2) I have a 3 offensive skill or less build.

Once again thanks for all the hard work calculating this out, although I have a feeling you enjoy it almost as much as playing the game itself :)

[CosmoxKramer]

I forgot to do "charge" testing before i ran the numbers. They are a bit high probably because i had 1.5*uncharged damage=charged, but it turns out that it is closer to 1.25*.

haha, yes, i do enjoy theorycrafting as much as playing....if i stopped doing this i may be lvl 26 already. But I screw around too much and i'm still 5k away.

What 4 skills do you use, if you don't mind me asking?

[drgrimmy]

I forgot to do "charge" testing before i ran the numbers. They are a bit high probably because i had 1.5*uncharged damage=charged, but it turns out that it is closer to 1.25*.

haha, yes, i do enjoy theorycrafting as much as playing....if i stopped doing this i may be lvl 26 already. But I screw around too much and i'm still 5k away.

What 4 skills do you use, if you don't mind me asking?

Hehe... I change up my build alot, but am currently running with fire, frost, time, life, 5/5 int, 5/5 str. The last time I consistently ran a 4 offensive skill build was before PvP came out with fire, frost, gale and time. Although most people don't like gale, I liked having a full aoe build for mob killing with the speed boost for fast runs (a nice leaderboard running build when mages could still compete). You just have to take care not to be a "scatter bear" (eg push mobs against walls and other objects instead of scattering them with gale - bears from pl know what I am talking about). Other builds I have used alot are: fire, frost, gale and life (seemed somewhat versatile for both PvE and PvP); fire, gale, time, and life (in my early al days); and fire, light, life and shield (although mostly for PvP, also worked suprisingly well for solo w4 runs saving me alot in pots). Many more builds have been tried and discarded :)

[CosmoxKramer]

i hear ya, i've tried a ton.
I also understood scatter bear. I enjoying playing my bear in PL and knew how to yack towards a wall/corner then take a step and stop them up against that same wall/corner

[Pfurz]

Thank you for this...i made it PDF

[CosmoxKramer]

Hey guys. I after getting a question from Wolfkult (user) on a Warrior forum topic. I went back and was doing some calculations of what your real DPS stat on the avatar page should be when including Crit.

For Example, now my mage is 26 and in my damage/armor type gear i have 216.8 Damage and 3.33% Crit and DPS shows 243.9 with oracle crystal
so my real DPS = Damage * (1+(crit%*critdam%)) * other Dam% * aps (attacks per second). and CritDam from weapons is 130%
216.8*(1+(.0333*1.3))*1*1.125 = 254.45
If i had 5 extra Skill points, should i put them in Crit or Dam%
216.8*(1+(.0833*1.3))*1*1.125 = 270.3
216.8*(1+(.0333*1.3))*1.05*1.125 = 267.2

Woh! so Crit is better than Damage! Not quite, but now why was my calculator showing the opposite. Well 2 things to note:

yes, i found an error where i was calculating what the damage of an individual crit was. I accidentally still had the "(1+(crit%" in the formula. Where in turn, i'm not trying to calculate average damage of 1 crit, but needed to just do Damage roll * 130% for weapons or 140% for skills. I'll man up and say sorry!!! SORRY
the above averages may be a bit Skewed, because of misses, dodges, and Pure randomness involved in the game. Crits may be higher in some cases, but over the long run, Dam% probably provides a more steady DPS. Makes sense... Plus on an individual weapon/skill calculation of average damage crit may be better, but with varying Critdam% as well, crit doesn't have the same effect overall as straight Dam%. if critdam was indeed 200% damage as the base, then crit would always be > dam%


So i fixed the damage calculation and reran some numbers. This time i'll add i'll show the min-max of the hundred test scenarios for each. 0% passive damage in all of the below. Also, i threw out Flamestrike weapon, because they were still quite a bit lower than the Oracle gun.
Priority was (weapon, time shift, frost, fire, lightning)
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 11.13 crit, Clyde = 376 (363-393)
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 4.13 crit, Colton = 401 (387-415)

Priority was (weapon, frost, lightning, fire, gale).
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 11.13 crit, Clyde = 373 (360-394)
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 4.13 crit, Colton = 396 (381-407)

So, both build are almost equal now, where GF was slightly beter than TS. using your Build, Jaytb, what is better, 5% crit or 5% damage passives.
Priority was (weapon, frost, lightning, fire, gale).
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 16.13 crit, Clyde = 383 (369-401)
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 9.13 crit, Colton = 406 (390-423)
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 11.13 crit, Clyde, 5% dam = 392 (374-409)
Oracle gun, 227.8 Damage, 4.13 crit, Colton, 5% dam = 415 (402-426)

in each case of the =5% passive, your dps goes up 5%. In each case of the +5% crit, your dps goes up just over 2.5%. Lightning was cast 17.5% of total casts at 250% critdam, other skills were 39.8% of the time at 140% critdam, and weapon was the remaining 42.7% at 130%. So add that up (17.5%*250%)+(39.8%*140%)+(42.7*130%) = 155% crit dam weighted average or +55% damage over normal attack. .05 *.55=2.75% which is pretty close to the 2.5% increase. if i had the decimals in the DPS above, that may account for the .25% difference.

So, in the end, crit seems to give about 0.5% dps increase per 1% crit (assuming you have Lightning 250% in your build). Without Lightning it is close to 0.35% dps boost to 1% crit. While Dam% gives you about 1:1 ratio.

[JaytB]

@Cosmo

You remind me of Physiologic. That's a good thing btw ;)

I ran out of thanks again, so I'll give you a virtual thanks here... *thanks*

That dmg calculator gets better every day :D

[CosmoxKramer]

Thank you!

I think will will make a 2nd version that is only 100s long instead of 300s, and then you can really see the spikes from crits/misses etc. and whenever I say I updated something in the calculator, then I mean there is a new version in my google docs.

[Szangheili]

As a warrior, I like keeping both above the 100 mark, because when tanking, you will be using both lots of the time. Just my two cents to all the tanks out there.

[JaytB]

As a warrior, I like keeping both above the 100 mark, because when tanking, you will be using both lots of the time. Just my two cents to all the tanks out there.

Generally, warrior weapons are quite slow. I haven't done a detailed analysis yet, but basically if you attack more with your skills as compared to using the attack button, Dmg>DPS.

But, as said, I'd have to do some more testing on warriors before coming to any conclusions. I do have a lv25 warrior, but I don't enjoy playing it too much. I like a challenge and warriors, to me, are just running in and spamming skills and some health pots.

[axelbadde]

Thanks for sorting this out for me!

[Deadprezz]

This Guide Helped A Lot! Thanks! C:

[JaytB]

Very nice guide man. But i hate you for making it! lol. Giving away all the good secrets. haha no its really good thx for making :cool:

Lol!


Thanks for sorting this out for me!


This Guide Helped A Lot! Thanks! C:

Glad to hear it helped :)

[CosmoxKramer]

you know your thread is popular when it makes it on FB
25892

[JaytB]

you know your thread is popular when it makes it on FB
25892

Ow wow! That's certainly a pleasant surprise! :D

Maybe I should've copyrighted it :p

[Energizeric]

Hehe, congrats!!

[CrimsonTider]

Ow wow! That's certainly a pleasant surprise! :D

Maybe I should've copyrighted it :p

I thought the same after my bear and bird guide's I made last summer. You'd think our infinite wisdom would have caught that. :)

[asibebab]

Thx guys! Very helpful :)

[Taigah]

First of all, thanks a lot for this guide! :)

My main char is rogue, but I've just made a warrior and a mage to not get bored ;)

Anyway, now that free respec ends, what did you guys settle for? I'd love it if you shared your build with all the placement of your skillpoints, and rotation/priority :) <3

I know this will probably be a 4 dmg skill spec from what I read in the post, but if I should throw in Lifegiver, how should my spec look like then?

Thanks in advance :)

[Zecca]

Hey thank's hahaha.. Someone tell me that my sorc is s*cks. It because my DPS was small than my damage. I already know what the different of DPS and damage. So i just increasing my damage :D haha. And i'm still thinking how to increase my health now. It's so scary when rogue hit me first. Sometimes i got one hit died. LoL. Except i hit the rogue first :D

[Spymans]

Wow thank you this helps a lot!!

[Silverpegasus]

Wow all these numbers are making me go 0.0
For me its simple, gun attack only one target, higher damage, use it for boss
For mobs, rod will be better, if you got a tank, as you need to aim it while being still, and it targets multiple enemies. especially good after you bundle them with time shift or ice aoe.
@Jaytb
Time Shift is the best skill for mage. I always land them where I want (provided that my ping is stable), you just have to practice it, try running while dropping it. I didnt get that skill until my paid 4rd respec or so because I used to land them randomly when testing it for a short time.

[buu1152]

hey bro what setup do u use for dmg.. armour/ring/necklace? and would you recommend hardcore dmg with lik 4% dodge/crit or semiharcore dmg with lik 10%dodge/crit?

[xxsaraixx]

So just to confirm, charged attack does about 1.25 times the amount of an uncharged attack? Thanks.

[Ebenev]

Thx :)

The high Dmg build consists out of the following:

* Mythic mage helm (lv26 sealord of security helm would do, but your skill Dmg would decrease with 15 points, or 327 max Dmg for firebolt)
* lv26 sealord wrappings of security
* Ring: Lv25 sea captain's ring of warfare. It strangely adds 3 more to your Dmg stat as compared to the lv26 one. Talking about weird mechanics lol.
* pendant: Lv25 Infused brooch of assault. The lv26 one adds +0.4 Dmg, but I haven't found one yet. I do know they exist though, since a friend of mine showed it to me.

All points went into INT for maximum damage.

My skills are (for now, cause I change all the time lol):

* Fire 5/5: I included the hit debuff because it seems to help me stay alive. Fairly high Dmg spell, AOE (damaging multiple enemies) with fairly low cooldown (4s). 14m range, so can be fired far away from danger.
* Lightning with 1st and 3rd skill unlocked (15% more Dmg and 250% Dmg on crit). Really low cooldown (3sec)/high Dmg skill. 12meter range, so ideal to just stay outside those nasty red circles that some bosses cast, while still being able to land your skill

Now, the next 2 skills are debatable and are more personal preference. I love time shift for its initial impact Dmg and DOT (Dmg over time), but I simply hate dropping that clock. Sometimes the drop locations seem to life their own live and a skill with fairly high cooldown (10sec) goes wasted. You also need to get almost on top of a boss to drop it in the right location and so risking your squishy mages' life.

I went with following 2 skills:

* Gale force with 1, 2 and 3. AOE Dmg, and I love to run fast lol. But seriously, that speed boost can save your life sometimes. It's also nice that the boost doesn't end before your skill cooldown, so you could almost continuously charge it up and keep running quick. I also included the 25% dodge self-buff that lasts for 3seconds. It's just long enough to get in your 9m range and out of it again with a fair chance to dodge any attacks and so stay alive. Skill cool down is medium (5.5s), but not as bad as time shift (10sec).
* frost bolt: with 1 and 2. 20% chance of an AOE attack (20%) and DOT + very low cooldown (3sec) and high range (14m) skill. DOT only works when charged though, as far as I could tell.

As passives:

Knowledge: 5/5
Might: 5/5 I'll probably put that into Dmg in the future, but until STS fixes the stats issue for Dmg increase (not being visible in stats page) I'll stay with might. Problem with my build is that it attracts agro like mad. And you need some health points 'when' (not 'if') a boss or mob comes for your tiny blue behind.

Pet: I went with Clyde (monkey), adds 10STR, 30 INT and 7% crit. The arcane ability isn't bad either, it's a chance to stun (I'd say 50/50 chance) and even works on bosses. It's only drawback is its fairly long cooldown time of around 18 seconds (if I remember correctly)

Colton might be better for the high crit buff for 2 or 3 seconds. Colton also has a fairly low cooldown of 7-8'ish seconds if I remember correct. And its arcane ability adds a lot of crit but lasts only very briefly.

Overall, I like Clyde better. For looks (lol), its stun and the permanent 7%crit increase. 10STR also adds another 100HP's to your health bar.

So, that's my build and gear. It does huge Dmg and gives fair protection but it sucks mana like crazy. If you can live with the mana usage, I'd definitely give it a shot :)

i use sealord set lvl 26 too (even my mage is lvl 28 now hehehehe)

anyway, nice post :encouragement:

[Myodda]

thanx for insight

[TeKaiH]

Can you show your beautiful smurf head, and what gun are you using for High Dmg build.

[JaytB]

Can you show your beautiful smurf head, and what gun are you using for High Dmg build.

Currently using all mythics for highest dmg possible.

A borean gun is currently also not bad but pales in comparison to the dmg a Mythic gun dishes out.

Here's the smurf (Clyde equipped without outside buffs)...

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a491/JaytB2/a472f55335a2617dd787583fc7214940_zps01e8385b.jpg

[TeKaiH]

I want to see your bald blue head :D

[Deadroth]

Your guide is good :) But sorcerers knew that always. DMG is better than DPS.

Anyways. Gorgeous job :) Hope for more awesome guides like that one :)

Now that is the place to show to that noobs XD

[Alhuntrazeck]

Your guide is good :) But sorcerers knew that always. DMG is better than DPS.

Anyways. Gorgeous job :) Hope for more awesome guides like that one :)

Now that is the place to show to that noobs XD

Actually, many, MANY sorcs don't kno. Adding ti the confusion is the stupid firesquid and the logic "the more expensive tthe better" and since firesquid adds so much Dps...logically, to those sorcerers, DPS, like tthe staff, must be superior.

Lovely guide.

[JaytB]

I want to see your bald blue head :D

He has complexes about his baldness, that's why he always wears a cap :(



Your guide is good :) But sorcerers knew that always. DMG is better than DPS.

Anyways. Gorgeous job :) Hope for more awesome guides like that one :)

Now that is the place to show to that noobs XD



Actually, many, MANY sorcs don't kno. Adding ti the confusion is the stupid firesquid and the logic "the more expensive tthe better" and since firesquid adds so much Dps...logically, to those sorcerers, DPS, like tthe staff, must be superior.

^This

You can't imagine how many dps vs Dmg discussions I had in game with people calling me a noob because dps was supposedly the way to go.

To be fair, there are circumstances where dps can be useful. For example in purely PvP builds where people choose to go for a more protective skill build.

Even now, I still see end-game PvE sorcerers running around with high dps stats, and just a couple of days ago I had the same dps vs Dmg discussion all over again. As hunter said, people find it hard to understand that cheaper can be better.

You would think everyone knows by now, but in reality there are still many ill informed people in this game.

I'm definitely not saying I got it all figured out, I'm focussing on my sorcerer a bit more lately to get a better grip on how to use all the skills to their fullest. I've discovered some really interesting crowd control techniques that can considerably speed up specific runs, some things I don't see people use very often. But that's a whole other topic. Hoping to get to that later :)

[Revealing]

Gj on making guide quitted pl few days ago
Too boring xD

[iRay]

Hmm so what weapon should I get for DMG? I'm level 27.

[ruizerwin]

Nice post... going to check on my mage stat

[Foocough]

blep

[bladescythe]

I'm lost lol... Complicated for me :/

[atomic339]

Thx :)

The high Dmg build consists out of the following:

* Mythic mage helm (lv26 sealord of security helm would do, but your skill Dmg would decrease with 15 points, or 327 max Dmg for firebolt)
* lv26 sealord wrappings of security
* Ring: Lv25 sea captain's ring of warfare. It strangely adds 3 more to your Dmg stat as compared to the lv26 one. Talking about weird mechanics lol.
* pendant: Lv25 Infused brooch of assault. The lv26 one adds +0.4 Dmg, but I haven't found one yet. I do know they exist though, since a friend of mine showed it to me.

All points went into INT for maximum damage.

My skills are (for now, cause I change all the time lol):

* Fire 5/5: I included the hit debuff because it seems to help me stay alive. Fairly high Dmg spell, AOE (damaging multiple enemies) with fairly low cooldown (4s). 14m range, so can be fired far away from danger.
* Lightning with 1st and 3rd skill unlocked (15% more Dmg and 250% Dmg on crit). Really low cooldown (3sec)/high Dmg skill. 12meter range, so ideal to just stay outside those nasty red circles that some bosses cast, while still being able to land your skill

Now, the next 2 skills are debatable and are more personal preference. I love time shift for its initial impact Dmg and DOT (Dmg over time), but I simply hate dropping that clock. Sometimes the drop locations seem to life their own live and a skill with fairly high cooldown (10sec) goes wasted. You also need to get almost on top of a boss to drop it in the right location and so risking your squishy mages' life.

I went with following 2 skills:

* Gale force with 1, 2 and 3. AOE Dmg, and I love to run fast lol. But seriously, that speed boost can save your life sometimes. It's also nice that the boost doesn't end before your skill cooldown, so you could almost continuously charge it up and keep running quick. I also included the 25% dodge self-buff that lasts for 3seconds. It's just long enough to get in your 9m range and out of it again with a fair chance to dodge any attacks and so stay alive. Skill cool down is medium (5.5s), but not as bad as time shift (10sec).
* frost bolt: with 1 and 2. 20% chance of an AOE attack (20%) and DOT + very low cooldown (3sec) and high range (14m) skill. DOT only works when charged though, as far as I could tell.

As passives:

Knowledge: 5/5
Might: 5/5 I'll probably put that into Dmg in the future, but until STS fixes the stats issue for Dmg increase (not being visible in stats page) I'll stay with might. Problem with my build is that it attracts agro like mad. And you need some health points 'when' (not 'if') a boss or mob comes for your tiny blue behind.

Pet: I went with Clyde (monkey), adds 10STR, 30 INT and 7% crit. The arcane ability isn't bad either, it's a chance to stun (I'd say 50/50 chance) and even works on bosses. It's only drawback is its fairly long cooldown time of around 18 seconds (if I remember correctly)

Colton might be better for the high crit buff for 2 or 3 seconds. Colton also has a fairly low cooldown of 7-8'ish seconds if I remember correct. And its arcane ability adds a lot of crit but lasts only very briefly.

Overall, I like Clyde better. For looks (lol), its stun and the permanent 7%crit increase. 10STR also adds another 100HP's to your health bar.

So, that's my build and gear. It does huge Dmg and gives fair protection but it sucks mana like crazy. If you can live with the mana usage, I'd definitely give it a shot :)

I don't understand skills. Can someone explain me this?

1. Fire 5/5
2. Lighting 1 and 3
3.?
4.?

So you use time shift and one of: frost or gale force?

Can you explain how do you use this skills on mobs or in pvp?

[branniac7]

Nice post... going to check on my mage stat

Didnt know u had a mage. Lol. We used to be in the same guild.

[branniac7]

Hmm so what weapon should I get for DMG? I'm level 27.

Oracles crystal of force 26

[Melodicdeath]

Good review. You should take note of one important point, armor and damage reduction works differently in al than in pl. Although I still agree with going with a higher damage build, the mechanics in al makes dps not as useless a stat as in pl. In al damage inflicted is a factor of your damage times a percentage damage reduction based on your enemies armor. It is not damage minus armor like it is in pl. You can see how this distinction makes a huge difference...

In PL: say you have two weapons with 300 dps, one a high dps weapon with 100 damage and the second a high damage weapon with 300 damage. Throw in the mix an enemy with 75 armor. With the high dps weapon in one second you will only do (100-75)x3=75 damage. With the high damage weapon in one second you will do 300-75=225 damage. Here you can clearly see that a high dps weapon is not as effective as a high damage weapon against an enemy with high armor.

In AL: say you have two weapons with 300 dps, one a high dps weapon with 100 damage and the second a high damage weapon with 300 damage. Throw in the mix an enemy with 75 armor, which for the sake of this argument (since the numbers are not really known) yeilds 50% damage reduction. With the high dps weapon in one second you will do (100x0.50)x3=150 damage. With the high damage weapon in one second you will do 300x0.50=150 damage. So disregarding skill damage (which is a huge deal with mages and mob clearing), the same amount of damage is done to a single enemy over time with a high dps versus a high damage weapon with the same dps.

Again, needless to say I would always choose a high damage weapon over a high dps weapon as I focus my build to clearing mobs and charging aoe skills. I just wanted to clarify the armor and damage reduction side of things, as this makes dps not as useless a stat in al as it is in pl.

Back in the day I was all about dps..now, upon returning to AL after a year, I'm finding myself leaning more toward damage after a week of playing and experimenting.

[cooletzzz]

I just want to ask. How can I focus upgrading the damage than dps. What type of gear and weapon which is high on damage because I love using skills always than dps. I got all myth set but still trying to look some stuff that will add my damage not dps. I prepare damage skills

[Xeusx]

Nice necro ._.

[Clerious]

Nice

[Glizzer Dave Chaves]

DPS is for pvp they usually use Storm sword than maul

[Sceazikua]

I just want to ask. How can I focus upgrading the damage than dps. What type of gear and weapon which is high on damage because I love using skills always than dps. I got all myth set but still trying to look some stuff that will add my damage not dps. I prepare damage skills

The only thing that happens to change your damage and dps ratio is weapon, nothing else. Like staffs and dagger and sword, they give more dps than damage. Guns, bows, and hammers are often used for damage.

[jb57542]

I just want to ask. How can I focus upgrading the damage than dps. What type of gear and weapon which is high on damage because I love using skills always than dps. I got all myth set but still trying to look some stuff that will add my damage not dps. I prepare damage skills

A few simple things you can do to focus on damage not dps.

1. Go full int with your base stats.
Int increases your % bonus dmg which multiplies your weapon dmage.
2. Invest in passive int/str/dex and crit skills.
The % dmg passive is useless now which I explained in reason 3
3. Use a pet that gives the follow boost in int, %dmg increase, crit and increases health/str.
The reason you want % dmg is because only your highest % dmg buff is applied which is why passive %dmg is usless skill since most pets give a higher buff. Ethyl is a prime example of a god cheap mage pet.
4. Brutality (int/Str) and assault (int/Dex) weapons and jewelry typically give you best damage stats as they give primary stats as int with bonus damage.
Currently the new expedition rifles are best for weapons.
Lunar/tarlok pendenants and blood/arcane/troll rings are best non-arcanre jewelry.

[Alhuntrazeck]

DPS isn't completely crap now, though, I have to say. Because with 1 attack skill in PvP (fireball), you need all the DPS you can get! Which is why I prefer a staff in PvP.

[Blackwingz]

excellent guide!

[Mangkengkoy]

Thanks for the info really helps alot

[Griimnreaper]

i agree to this , thanks

[Tendirin]

i think dps is better though

[Mehmet Tuncay]

Mersinmehmet
Back in the day I was all about dps..now, upon returning to AL after a year, I'm finding myself leaning more toward damage after a week of playing and experimenting.Mersinmehmet

[Elner]

Well yeah i agree but it's now, I see rogues with 1000 dps and crit 8000 damage with only 600 damage explain that.... Is it bonus damage?

[Sirghastly]

I prefer dps for pve and damage for pvp
dps: usefull cuz u kill more easy the mobs ( if u r a pve mage )
damage: for pvp cuz u just have to attack 1-5 players in pvp and dps will be not usefull

[Fran Mac]

ok, if this is true and i believe it is why magmatic totem for sorcerer is more expensive than rifles? rifles have more damage and totem has a lot more dps... thx in advance

[Nesox]

Magmatic Totem is more expensive because it is more rare than the Expedition Rifle, not because it is necessarily better. Skill damage is still based on dmg rather than dps so unless you rely primarily on your auto attack dps means little. Staves have a higher rate of fire than rifles hense the higher dps. Rifles have auto aim and more range where as staves hit multiple targets. Without auto aim you will find that more shots miss than with a rifle. This means that although slower fireing, rifles will do more actual damage than staves in areas that arent tightly congested or anywhere you need to dodge and kite. Preference is based on playing style more than anything. Personally I ignore dps for the most part and focus on pure dmg. I prefer rifles for the most part. If two weapons have equal dmg I will take the one with higher dps (rate of fire), but you would be unwise to sacrifice dmg in favor of dps.

[luiz]

Tnx

[ndyfixer]

nice guide ! add me will ya ?

ign: magenofear

[Aerodude]

GOSHH ZEUS the BESR!!!!!

[Aldyrambe]

Nah i want to ask if mage vs mage, they use same equip from armor helm ring and amulet, same skill, but they use different weapon. One use dps and other use dmg. Who'll win ? :/

[BaronB]

Nah i want to ask if mage vs mage, they use same equip from armor helm ring and amulet, same skill, but they use different weapon. One use dps and other use dmg. Who'll win ? :/

Usually it would be the mage that has the weapon that gives him the most damage, however a skilled mage going dps(would usually mean their crit is a lil higher as well) could also win the fight.

[Rx8]

Dps is only referring to when you use your weapon attack. Dmg impacts your skills. Completely ignore dps and look for greater dmg

Yeah. Nowadays ur dps is much higher than the dmg.

[TheComboKid]

OMG I finnaly understand the difference. Guess Damage alone is what I want to go for as a PvE mage. Very helpful

[Streven]

Damage for the win!

[Masterzora]

nice staates for all :)

[Kingkarma]

Thanx for info now am totally know abt dps and damage tyvm 😀:)

[Michael Simionescu]

Grate guide bro thx, I'm new player and this thread helped me a lot

[Drasiteal]

Really nice guide thx. Im totally agree with above but there must be a.factor x also built in to weapons. I have a mythic lvl 46 glint gun of.wisdom on my mage and have also tried out the new lvl 46 arcane.staff. arcane staff gives higher dps alot but also about 30 extra.damage. but still my skill damage.go down with the.staff. So there must be some factor x here. Any one who knows some about it.
I.have.also tried some really high damage legendary.mauls with really low dps on war around.lvl 40. Dont remeber.name of of the.maul. the.maul lowered the dps.and raised the damage compared with magmatic sword. But i still got lower skill damage even though my weapon damage.was higher. ???
Another clue to.find.factor.x lol

[Lisa Crossgrove]

Haha yes, I started playing AL for almost 2 weeks now. Got a bit bored with the scenery in PL, so decided to give it a try. And you know me, I love tampering with stats and gear so AL gives me something to keep myself busy in the quiet hours, until PL gets something new :)

I'll PM you my IGN's in a bit, so we can meet up in game some time.


This helped me a lot even tho it is an older post!

[newzealandmaorimage]

this is very helpful! Now i know what gear i should look for

[Uice]

At high end game dps and dmg can be very good, but i prefer dmg, usully it depends from person to person, non of us has same style of game.

[butterflyao]

Wow, this is an amazing thread

[bloodii]

that's a nice guide... do you have some "xls" files ?

[MithicSpirit]

Wow, I never thought of it that way before, thanks for clearing things up! :D

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[Ciclosfim]

Rly nice info. Tnx

[grabber00]

thank you for this helpful info

[FunnymanBr]

Nice guide bro.

[StormCannon]

Nice guide dude

[PsychoNuke]

Information on this thread is not relevant to the current game (Client Version: 1.8.3, Expansion: Festerfang) .
At present: Higher DPS = Higher Damage = Higher Attack Speed = Higher Skill Damage.
Guns are inferior to Staffs.

[Crocodile]

now festerfang need DPS XD

[arcane1]

Thanks for the information! :D

[Luckyhard]

Good Job bro nice guide

[jeabahty]

Information on this thread is not relevant to the current game (Client Version: 1.8.3, Expansion: Festerfang) .
At present: Higher DPS = Higher Damage = Higher Attack Speed = Higher Skill Damage.
Guns are inferior to Staffs.

Yes true. Have you guys played any of the Final Fantasy games? Especially the old ones. The accuracy stat there decides how many times you hit a target per attack, and more hits in a single attack = higher damage. I believe DPS works in a very similar way in this game as well. DPS - damage per second, if anyone didn't know - is exactly what it sounds like, and quite akin to the accuracy stat in Final Fantasy works in the same way as well. Like PsychoNuke ^ said, higher dps = higher dmg = higher....

[Gol D. Roger]

as a level 66 mage what range should your Damage and DPS be?

[Quaxar]

Interesting guide Bro :)

[Zaocaquba]

Helps a lot!!! thanks

[Kreofrac]

Well this was interesting

[bitia]

im a rogue but this information is also pretty important for maximizing aimed shot damage

[Greyzalpha]

These are very helping information thanks in advance

[chiiwawa]

i use mostly Int but lately ive been balancing out my int and str.

[Danteakafat]

noted good job

[Atillafr]

Merci de l'info