Rogue's AOE.

[Mysticaleagle]

I know Shadow Storm Shot is a AOE damage skill.

What about the others? Is Shadow Storm the only AOE skill for Rogues?

I heard Noxious Bolt was, but it doesn't for me (even with the 6 meters upgrade). It's a 1 aimed shot.


-Myst

[Vystirch]

I know Shadow Storm Shot is a AOE damage skill.

What about the others? Is Shadow Storm the only AOE skill for Rogues?

I heard Noxious Bolt was, but it doesn't for me (even with the 6 meters upgrade). It's a 1 aimed shot.


-Myst

An aoe build for rouge is the one I use the most, it is quite simple. Full piercer (to get around fast and bosses) full AS (stack crit and hit huge crits) full trap (this is your aoe attack, it's kills hits crits and slows enemies) full veil (defense and dmg gain).

-Vys

[Mysticaleagle]

Shadow Storm is the best AOE skill imo.

Trap doesn't really hurt much of them, and veil is just to give you more DMG.

Thanks for the help though. Just trying to have Damage AOE skills to easy solo tombs and fast kills. :)

[Raxin]

Shadow Storm is the best AOE skill imo.

Trap doesn't really hurt much of them, and veil is just to give you more DMG.

Thanks for the help though. Just trying to have Damage AOE skills to easy solo tombs and fast kills. :)
Your lol if you think trap n veil arent amazing AoE for wt and elites

[Mysticaleagle]

Your lol if you think trap n veil arent amazing AoE for wt and elites

Do they actually DAMAGE lots of enemies at once, like if it was Fire Ball from a sorcerer?

[Raxin]

Your lol if you think trap n veil arent amazing AoE for wt and elites

Do they actually DAMAGE lots of enemies at once, like if it was Fire Ball from a sorcerer?
Learn math dude...

[Mysticaleagle]

Learn math dude...

Know what you're talking about, take it easy there fella.

I'm wondering, because as you can see, I am new to Rogue.

No need for these childish response to a fair and honest question.

[Vystirch]

Shadow Storm is the best AOE skill imo.

Trap doesn't really hurt much of them, and veil is just to give you more DMG.

Thanks for the help though. Just trying to have Damage AOE skills to easy solo tombs and fast kills. :)

Trap and veil will be your most helpful skills forever. Once you learn to use them there Is no going back. Also when trap pulls everyone into it you get a chance to deal huge damage with normal hits with a lifetheif. Trap is by far my favorite skill and is the best aoe a rogue has.

-Vys

[Raxin]

Ok here we go...
lets just take trap vs ss for example:
ss area limited and cd are factors that limit its output.trap can auto cd (instant 20%) sometimes can br spawned in excess of 3 times consecutively, causess mob control and bleeding damage, it makes ALL aoe skills from other players hit all mobs on screen (skysmash, xhestsplitter, fireball, timeshift, nox, and gale, charged reg attacks). Use you imagination on how veil can enhance these moments of triumph.

[Mysticaleagle]

Trap and veil will be your most helpful skills forever. Once you learn to use them there Is no going back. Also when trap pulls everyone into it you get a chance to deal huge damage with normal hits with a lifetheif. Trap is by far my favorite skill and is the best aoe a rogue has.

-Vys


Ok here we go...
lets just take trap vs ss for example:
ss area limited and cd are factors that limit its output.trap can auto cd (instant 20%) sometimes can br spawned in excess of 3 times consecutively, causess mob control and bleeding damage, it makes ALL aoe skills from other players hit all mobs on screen (skysmash, xhestsplitter, fireball, timeshift, nox, and gale, charged reg attacks). Use you imagination on how veil can enhance these moments of triumph.


Thanks for these constructive feedbacks.

Last question is, is this a good PvE AOE build to solo tombs:

Trap, Shadow Storm, Aimed Shot, Piercer?

Or noxious is good also?

[Vystirch]

Thanks for these constructive feedbacks.

Last question is, is this a good PvE AOE build to solo tombs:

Trap, Shadow Storm, Aimed Shot, Piercer?

Or noxious is good also?

Nox is good.... But I would recommend getting rid of shadow storm and adding razor shield.

Forgot to say razor shield is also a great aoe.

[gundamsone]

the poison on nox is great for pvp not so much for pve...i mean u can whack it one more time with ur auto atk and it'll make up for like 6 seconds of the poison damage

Personally I wouldn't go with pierce for a number of reasons.
1. tapping the skill is single target atk
2. there is a slight delay right after you pierce which prevents you from spamming that hax auto atk of urs off of your lifethiefs

instead I suggest you go with 3 skills (bomb, trap, as [for stacking crit] + passives...or maybe put 1 point into a 4th skill like shadow arrows for the lulz.
i'd aim for a 1k+ mana setup b/c potting sucks and slows down your productivity

[Mysticaleagle]

the poison on nox is great for pvp not so much for pve...i mean u can whack it one more time with ur auto atk and it'll make up for like 6 seconds of the poison damage

Personally I wouldn't go with pierce for a number of reasons.
1. tapping the skill is single target atk
2. there is a slight delay right after you pierce which prevents you from spamming that hax auto atk of urs off of your lifethiefs

instead I suggest you go with 3 skills (bomb, trap, as [for stacking crit] + passives...or maybe put 1 point into a 4th skill like shadow arrows for the lulz.
i'd aim for a 1k+ mana setup b/c potting sucks and slows down your productivity

Thanks for that. Passives in Dex, Int and Crit I guess.
Maybe a little in Str, for survivability as I am trying 0 death.

[X29798]

Thanks for these constructive feedbacks.

Last question is, is this a good PvE AOE build to solo tombs:

Trap, Shadow Storm, Aimed Shot, Piercer?

Or noxious is good also?

Build is OK

Noxious has aoe poison that damages mobs close to the shot. Aimed shot is not aoe at all and more about single damage and fighting bosses, it helps if you want to kill boss.

When you are fighting up close, I found that razor shield is quite good for hitting multiple mobs.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[Khylan]

The aoe range on nox seems to be reduced if you take the 3 second duration....easy to test, just respec and go to Wt4 and fire it off in the first hall.
5/5 it may hit 2 mobs...4/5 with normal duration 4+.
Regardless, the aoe is definitely NOT 6m with extended duration.

[Mysticaleagle]

The aoe range on nox seems to be reduced if you take the 3 second duration....easy to test, just respec and go to Wt4 and fire it off in the first hall.
5/5 it may hit 2 mobs...4/5 with normal duration 4+.
Regardless, the aoe is definitely NOT 6m with extended duration.

I have Noxious Bolt, with only the 6 meters range upgrade. The thing is, after hundreds of tries, this skill is NOT an AOE for me. It always targets and hurt one single mob.

Meh.

[X29798]

I have Noxious Bolt, with only the 6 meters range upgrade. The thing is, after hundreds of tries, this skill is NOT an AOE for me. It always targets and hurt one single mob.

Meh.

Hits one, poisons others. Need poison spec to use it.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[Mysticaleagle]

Hits one, poisons others. Need poison spec to use it.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

Oh, thanks!

Does the poison damage them a lot or just a little snail hit? :p

[X29798]

Oh, thanks!

Does the poison damage them a lot or just a little snail hit? :p

Its dot, not that strong. I wouldn't call Nox an aoe skill, its made for bosses not mobs. Razor shield is more aoe for mobs

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[Mysticaleagle]

Its dot, not that strong. I wouldn't call Nox an aoe skill, its made for bosses not mobs. Razor shield is more aoe for mobs

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

Razor Shield, Shadow Storm, Piercer, Aimed Shot. Right?

[X29798]

Razor Shield, Shadow Storm, Piercer, Aimed Shot. Right?

Close to my build, instead of aimed I use trap for multiple mobs, it does a lot of damage if you know what you are doing. Requires full spec though.

Trap suits archers, use trap then arrow mobs come, trapped.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[Vystirch]

Razor Shield, Shadow Storm, Piercer, Aimed Shot. Right?

No, AS . Trap . Veil . razor/or/piercer.

Depending on how aoe you want to go you can chose razor Sheild or piercer.
AS is for getting your crit up because the higher your crit and dmg the better your trap will be.
Trap is your main aoe.
Veil to add defense (you will have hig mobs attacking you) and more dmg.
Razor Sheild for dodge and aoe dmg right around you, add bleed for better aoe.
Piercer to move faster and fight bosses.

[McBain]

I like piercer, aimed shot, trap, and razor shield. Good balance of attack types for pve. It's probably not all that useful for pvp, but I'd pretty much call trap a must-have skill for pve because it's aoe, has a chance to beckon (the only skill in the game that can do so), and you can also spam it quite often with the insta-recharge upgrade. It's indispensable for crowd control once you get the hang of using it. Aimed shot can do huge damage so it's pretty clutch for bosses. Piercer is pretty versatile because you can attack single targets or multiple targets (if you have the upgrade). Plus it's just cool to be able to zip around quickly, all ninja-like. Razor shield is just a preference thing. I use it for defense and extra damage right before I run into the middle of a group of enemies to drop a trap.

[Drizzt Lee]

My build is 5/5 razor shield, 5/5 aimed shot, 5/5 trap, 5/5 bomb and rest of points in passive dex.

Their ability Is pretty self-explaintory. Definately the best aoe spec imo.

[FluffNStuff]

Poison damage only seems to aoe on charged shot.
Anyway, also going for AOE, with the caveat that I never touch an enemy, since I am looking at a bow based strafing build. That means piercer is out for me, and I have been using full charged Poison/ Full charged storm for support. Sounds like this trap might be what I am looking for, and also I think I might invest in smoke, since I have seen other rouges use it great advantage. Oh, I am only level 12.

[Vystirch]

Poison damage only seems to aoe on charged shot.
Anyway, also going for AOE, with the caveat that I never touch an enemy, since I am looking at a bow based strafing build. That means piercer is out for me, and I have been using full charged Poison/ Full charged storm for support. Sounds like this trap might be what I am looking for, and also I think I might invest in smoke, since I have seen other rouges use it great advantage. Oh, I am only level 12.

Do u plan to getup to a higher lvl?

[Vystirch]

My build is 5/5 razor shield, 5/5 aimed shot, 5/5 trap, 5/5 bomb and rest of points in passive dex.

Their ability Is pretty self-explaintory. Definately the best aoe spec imo.

Yes this is the best AOE build in my eyes also, it has long been my favorite, I sacrificed razor for piercer, to move faster.... Kinda wish I hadn't. But meh ill get back to it sometime.

-Vys

[FluffNStuff]

Do u plan to getup to a higher lvl?

Yes, not twinking.

[Mysticaleagle]

Yes, not twinking.

Add me, i'll be glad to play with you. Get some level ups heh.

Mysticaleagle IGN also.

[Vystirch]

Yes, not twinking.

Message me if you need help or need a guild once you reach lvl25+ ig.

Ign: Vystirch :)

[Raxin]

My build is 5/5 razor shield, 5/5 aimed shot, 5/5 trap, 5/5 bomb and rest of points in passive dex.

Their ability Is pretty self-explaintory. Definately the best aoe spec imo.

Yes this is the best AOE build in my eyes also, it has long been my favorite, I sacrificed razor for piercer, to move faster.... Kinda wish I hadn't. But meh ill get back to it sometime.

-Vys
My same build on rogue :-)

[JaytB]

I started a rogue too (lv15 currenly). I was wondering if the AOE builds here are also valid later on, for elite runs? Or is there a better spec for elite runs?

[nicoB]

razor shield is the best for any situation imo

[Chili]

razor shield is the best for any situation imo

Well, at least putting 2 in it so you can get that dodge.

[Spicy1]

In my opinion on l26 rogue best pve spec is: aimed 5/5, trap 5/5, veil 4/5 (leave out combusting decay, ~50 dmg to a mob isnt worth a point), razor 3/5 (take duration and dodge upgrades), 5/5 passive dex and 3/5 passive crit. Last 3 points on passive crit are actually free points and you can use them on whatever passive you prefer.

[Vystirch]

I started a rogue too (lv15 currenly). I was wondering if the AOE builds here are also valid later on, for elite runs? Or is there a better spec for elite runs?

Yes the AOE build is what my guilds main rogues use for elite.

[Cashews]

Here is how I get decent AOE at a low mana cost without having to respec. You need a pair of ALP( spiky damage) and aimed shot (10% crit boost). All you have to do is stand in a group of mobs and spam the ALP attack and tap aimed shot whenever it is available to boost your crit through the roof. The ALP can hit multiple mobs at once and when you combine this with spiky crit damage it puts out decent AOE damage.

[Vystirch]

Here is how I get decent AOE at a low mana cost without having to respec. You need a pair of ALP( spiky damage) and aimed shot (10% crit boost). All you have to do is stand in a group of mobs and spam the ALP attack and tap aimed shot whenever it is available to boost your crit through the roof. The ALP can hit multiple mobs at once and when you combine this with spiky crit damage it puts out decent AOE damage.

That is aoe, and that is what we do with all the builds above, wi net pulling enemies into a tighter area you end up hitting more therefore making it more potent.

[Zuzeq]

Is Having Health Packs Worth Having For AOE?




Government of Anarchy
GM

[Vystirch]

Is Having Health Packs Worth Having For AOE?




Government of Anarchy
GM

No, health packs is more a PvP skill for using against warriors.
By the time you have out down the packs and picked them up in pve you have wasted much time you could have been attacking and you will still be using pots.... A least for elite mod, as that is what I'm talking about. It's not good for pve. Not at all.

-Vys

[JaytB]

Yes the AOE build is what my guilds main rogues use for elite.

Thanks! I respecced my rogue this morning to the AOE build described here. I'm liking it so far. Good to know that it's also valid for end-game :)

[Vystirch]

Thanks! I respecced my rogue this morning to the AOE build described here. I'm liking it so far. Good to know that it's also valid for end-game :)

Yep your going to be using trap, AS, Veil, and razor for mobs.
Lol, and the same for bosses.
This will take alot of mana, I recommend a mana pet, my favorite pet to use for this build is Ripmaw.

[JaytB]

Yep your going to be using trap, AS, Veil, and razor for mobs.
Lol, and the same for bosses.
This will take alot of mana, I recommend a mana pet, my favorite pet to use for this build is Ripmaw.

Yeah, I noticed the ridiculous mana usage. It's like I'm using 5 skills, the 5th one being my mana pots. And I thought my mage was bad. As for the pet, wouldn't that overpriced McCraw pet be a better choice? I don't really care for health or mana pots, I just want to inflict some serious damage :D

[Vystirch]

Yeah, I noticed the ridiculous mana usage. It's like I'm using 5 skills, the 5th one being my mana pots. And I thought my mage was bad. As for the pet, wouldn't that overpriced McCraw pet be a better choice? I don't really care for health or mana pots, I just want to inflict some serious damage :D

I just use pots and ripmaw.... I haven't bought that inflated pet because there are no new pet achievements, so wouldn't know.

[Zuzeq]

No, health packs is more a PvP skill for using against warriors.
By the time you have out down the packs and picked them up in pve you have wasted much time you could have been attacking and you will still be using pots.... A least for elite mod, as that is what I'm talking about. It's not good for pve. Not at all.

-Vys



Thanks Far The Info.


Government of Anarchy
GM

[June Bug]

Here is how I get decent AOE at a low mana cost without having to respec. You need a pair of ALP( spiky damage) and aimed shot (10% crit boost). All you have to do is stand in a group of mobs and spam the ALP attack and tap aimed shot whenever it is available to boost your crit through the roof. The ALP can hit multiple mobs at once and when you combine this with spiky crit damage it puts out decent AOE damage.

What is spiky dmg? The proc says it heals 15%.

[Vystirch]

What is spiky dmg? The proc says it heals 15%.

Spiky dmg would be it's hits dmg from around 85 to 900 dmg on a normal hit.....

[Rare]

I am loving entangling trap. Only problem is it misses so often. Relatively short cool down though.

[Vystirch]

I am loving entangling trap. Only problem is it misses so often. Relatively short cool down though.

The trap will always drop in front of you. When your in the middle of a battle not moving just attacking with normal attack you seem to face a direction it appears you aren't. So every time before you set down your net, move around and then face the direction you would like to drop it.....

-Vys

[FluffNStuff]

The trap will always drop in front of you. When your in the middle of a battle not moving just attacking with normal attack you seem to face a direction it appears you aren't. So every time before you set down your net, move around and then face the direction you would like to drop it.....

-Vys

I have been having a lot of problems with the untriggered traps, guess I need more practice. Also, mobs seem to be dead quick at this level so I do not have combustion tank or combustion decay on shadow or traps. Should I be adding either soon? Also need to add deadly focus to AS, completely missed that part of the strategy. Should I also add shatter and accuracy?

[Rare]

The trap will always drop in front of you. When your in the middle of a battle not moving just attacking with normal attack you seem to face a direction it appears you aren't. So every time before you set down your net, move around and then face the direction you would like to drop it.....

-Vys

No I meant the proc where it draws the mobs in. Seems like it only works about 20% of the time.

[Rare]

I have been having a lot of problems with the untriggered traps, guess I need more practice. Also, mobs seem to be dead quick at this level so I do not have combustion tank or combustion decay on shadow or traps. Should I be adding either soon? Also need to add deadly focus to AS, completely missed that part of the strategy. Should I also add shatter and accuracy?

Its a lot more noticeable when you get to the elite maps when mobs take considerably longer to kill. I think I have all 4 of my skills maxed now as well as dex passives as Drizzt Lee (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?88534-Rogue-s-AOE&p=991734&viewfull=1#post991734) mentioned earlier in the thread.

[Vystirch]

I have been having a lot of problems with the untriggered traps, guess I need more practice. Also, mobs seem to be dead quick at this level so I do not have combustion tank or combustion decay on shadow or traps. Should I be adding either soon? Also need to add deadly focus to AS, completely missed that part of the strategy. Should I also add shatter and accuracy?

Trap needs practice, yes. Combustion on Trap is more powerful than smokes combustion and should defiantly be used, smokes should be added latter. AS should be fully upgraded for bosses and stacking crit. By lvl 26 you should have full AS, full trap, full razor, full veil, and full passive dex.

[Vystirch]

No I meant the proc where it draws the mobs in. Seems like it only works about 20% of the time.

Yes it only works 20% of the time, it says so in the upgrade screen I believe. But it is still a worthwhile upgrade.

-Vys

[FluffNStuff]

Trap needs practice, yes. Combustion on Trap is more powerful than smokes combustion and should defiantly be used, smokes should be added latter. AS should be fully upgraded for bosses and stacking crit. By lvl 26 you should have full AS, full trap, full razor, full veil, and full passive dex.
Thanks!
Question about charging. Currently I am going into battle holding down the smoke bomb to get a wider radius since that defines the combat area. After that I tap the razor shield, hit trap till it stops 'relighting' and then spam snipe with my bow. At next level (14 now) when I add the crit bonus to AS I will snipe with AS instead. Is this correct, or should I be charging skills / attacks to get more out of them. I know the trap gets bigger, but not sure if it is worth it, and what about the AS?

[Vystirch]

Thanks!
Question about charging. Currently I am going into battle holding down the smoke bomb to get a wider radius since that defines the combat area. After that I tap the razor shield, hit trap till it stops 'relighting' and then spam snipe with my bow. At next level (14 now) when I add the crit bonus to AS I will snipe with AS instead. Is this correct, or should I be charging skills / attacks to get more out of them. I know the trap gets bigger, but not sure if it is worth it, and what about the AS?

Charged veil > razor > charged trap > AS > (charged trap > AS repeat this till trap isn't available) then just AS and normal attacks.

*charged trap because it adds bleed*

[JaytB]

Charged veil > razor > charged trap > AS > (charged trap > AS repeat this till trap isn't available) then just AS and normal attacks.

I've been following the advice you have given in this thread and must say it works extremely well. I just made it to lv25 and my first elite map runs went really well.

It's true that trap is a very good skill, once you get the hang of it. The pulling in of mobs is also great, if it works. All in all, just wanted to say thanks for sharing this info. I would've never gone for veil or trap without reading about it here :)

[Vystirch]

I've been following the advice you have given in this thread and must say it works extremely well. I just made it to lv25 and my first elite map runs went really well.

It's true that trap is a very good skill, once you get the hang of it. The pulling in of mobs is also great, if it works. All in all, just wanted to say thanks for sharing this info. I would've never gone for veil or trap without reading about it here :)

Glad to help, builds truly are the only thing that holds people back, gear is not so much of an issue. Cya in elite sometime soon :)

-Vys

[Uzii]

Trap needs practice, yes. Combustion on Trap is more powerful than smokes combustion and should defiantly be used, smokes should be added latter. AS should be fully upgraded for bosses and stacking crit. By lvl 26 you should have full AS, full trap, full razor, full veil, and full passive dex.

I sacrifice piercer for trap sigh i miss that quick movement but in elite trap is better. But have only 3/5 razor and 4/5 veil remain points i invested for more hp in passive. As said smoke combustion is weak and bleed dmg and snare root removing u dont realy need (would be only useful if it was also against stun) so +150 hp sounds good :D

[Vystirch]

I sacrifice piercer for trap sigh i miss that quick movement but in elite trap is better. But have only 3/5 razor and 4/5 veil remain points i invested for more hp in passive. As said smoke combustion is weak and bleed dmg and snare root removing u dont realy need (would be only useful if it was also against stun) so +150 hp sounds good :D

I find the xtra hp doesn't rly keep me alive any better, what I do find is that the lack of piercer does slow me down, but when I have long runs I just quickly equip Shiloh.

[Pandamoni]

I find the xtra hp doesn't rly keep me alive any better, what I do find is that the lack of piercer does slow me down, but when I have long runs I just quickly equip Shiloh.


Ooooh, good tip on equipping Shiloh...duh.

Jay, thanks for sharing with me, too! I totally missed this thread. Aedenos and I were both talking (yesterday?) about how fun trap is :D

[Uzii]

I find the xtra hp doesn't rly keep me alive any better, what I do find is that the lack of piercer does slow me down, but when I have long runs I just quickly equip Shiloh.

I dont realy care what keeps u alive

[JaytB]

Ooooh, good tip on equipping Shiloh...duh.

Jay, thanks for sharing with me, too! I totally missed this thread. Aedenos and I were both talking (yesterday?) about how fun trap is :D

Haha, some threads on these forums are actually useful. Problem sometimes is finding them. But hey, that's what you got me for right? :p



I dont realy care what keeps u alive

I can't help but finding your remark a bit harsh. I don't really get why...

Anyway, I was actually playing with similar thoughts as your build, ditching veil's detonation and bleed for 100 more HP. At the moment I'm using Malison, adds a nice amount of Health (200+) and its arcane ability adds a huge amount of dodge for about 5seconds. So, at the moment I decided to not put those points in might.

I agree that the damage from that bleed proc and trap/veil detonation are minor and won't influence your total damage output a lot or even noticeably. So yeah, if you're going to trade off some dmg for HP, I guess you made the right decision :)

[Vystirch]

Ooooh, good tip on equipping Shiloh...duh.

Jay, thanks for sharing with me, too! I totally missed this thread. Aedenos and I were both talking (yesterday?) about how fun trap is :D

Yah Shiloh rly helps.


Haha, some threads on these forums are actually useful. Problem sometimes is finding them. But hey, that's what you got me for right? :p




I can't help but finding your remark a bit harsh. I don't really get why...

Anyway, I was actually playing with similar thoughts as your build, ditching veil's detonation and bleed for 100 more HP. At the moment I'm using Malison, adds a nice amount of Health (200+) and its arcane ability adds a huge amount of dodge for about 5seconds. So, at the moment I decided to not put those points in might.

I agree that the damage from that bleed proc and trap/veil detonation are minor and won't influence your total damage output a lot or even noticeably. So yeah, if you're going to trade off some dmg for HP, I guess you made the right decision :)

For a rogue I would have to say that hp is a stat that shouldn't be focused on but will come with good gear, the stat I focus on is dodge. A rogue can hardly take any dmg even with the xtra hp that if you never take dmg (because u dodged) it's the best possible situation. This is what I've xperianced over time, but a bit of hp might work for some people.

-Vys

[June Bug]

Spiky dmg would be it's hits dmg from around 85 to 900 dmg on a normal hit.....

So i think you mean that the dmg is more variable. But why would that hit more like an aoe, which is what i think was supposed to be the point? Bottom line is that why would depraved blades of potency not be better than ALP?

[Vystirch]

So i think you mean that the dmg is more variable. But why would that hit more like an aoe, which is what i think was supposed to be the point? Bottom line is that why would depraved blades of potency not be better than ALP?

Because depraved blades steady dmg over time does not beat AlPs spikes dmg, also remember I did not say (i think cashew said that) that was a good aoe, it only becomes a good aoe when net pulls everyone together.

-Vys

[JaytB]

For a rogue I would have to say that hp is a stat that shouldn't be focused on but will come with good gear, the stat I focus on is dodge. A rogue can hardly take any dmg even with the xtra hp that if you never take dmg (because u dodged) it's the best possible situation. This is what I've xperianced over time, but a bit of hp might work for some people.

-Vys

I definitely agree on the dodge part. The dodge buff (arcane) from Malisson is also very noticable. Survivabily seems just fine as far as I tested. The fairly high amount of armor probably helps too.

[Vystirch]

I definitely agree on the dodge part. The dodge buff (arcane) from Malisson is also very noticable. Survivabily seems just fine as far as I tested. The fairly high amount of armor probably helps too.

Yes I would have to say armor is more important than hp.

Just test koko and notice your survivability.

So:
Dodge > armor > hp

-Vys

[JaytB]

Yes I would have to say armor is more important than hp.

Just test koko and notice your survivability.

So:
Dodge > armor > hp

-Vys

I noticed the difference in survivability compared to my mage. The high armor seems to mitigate a lot of incoming dmg, and of course that dodge makes a huge difference too.

All in all, I'm happy I decided to make a rogue. They're a ton of fun to play. I can understand why some people complain about mana usage though.

[Vystirch]

I noticed the difference in survivability compared to my mage. The high armor seems to mitigate a lot of incoming dmg, and of course that dodge makes a huge difference too.

All in all, I'm happy I decided to make a rogue. They're a ton of fun to play. I can understand why some people complain about mana usage though.

Yah I buy 300mana pots to every 100 hp pots.

[June Bug]

Because depraved blades steady dmg over time does not beat AlPs spikes dmg, also remember I did not say (i think cashew said that) that was a good aoe, it only becomes a good aoe when net pulls everyone together.

-Vys

Ok, but i dont understand the math. However dps is calculated, the 250% crit shouldnt make ALP better since it could affect a low or a high amount. The increased variability shouldnt matter. In fact, it could hurt more than help due to overkills.

That said, i think youre right that ALP is better. I just dont understand the math. Maybe the DPS is just wrong?

[Vystirch]

Ok, but i dont understand the math. However dps is calculated, the 250% crit shouldnt make ALP better since it could affect a low or a high amount. The increased variability shouldnt matter. In fact, it could hurt more than help due to overkills.

That said, i think youre right that ALP is better. I just dont understand the math. Maybe the DPS is just wrong?

No one understands the math, but for now alp is better.

[McBain]

I like that Piercer can attack single or multiple targets depending on if it's charged. It's pretty versatile.

[Vystirch]

I like that Piercer can attack single or multiple targets depending on if it's charged. It's pretty versatile.

True, but the only two advantages of it rly are:

1. Move fast in area you have already killed

2. The defense percent decrease on enemies.... But this is a low chance....

It Is a skill more geared towards PvP tbh.

-Vys

[FluffNStuff]

What is ALP?

[Vystirch]

What is ALP?

An Alp would be the abbreviation for: Agile Lefetheif of Potency

-Vys

[Rare]

Because depraved blades steady dmg over time does not beat AlPs spikes dmg, also remember I did not say (i think cashew said that) that was a good aoe, it only becomes a good aoe when net pulls everyone together.

-Vys

Are you saying ALPs spike because of the supposed glitch? Or is there something else I'm not aware of?


From what I can tell, ALP (25) has lower damage AND DPS than DBP (26). So i'm not getting how ALP SHOULD have more damage since it doesn't have a damage proc.

[FluffNStuff]

No one understands the math, but for now alp is better.

I am pretty noob to this game, but trying to wrap my head around what is going on. The ALP has the same damage but crits higher?

[Spicy1]

Are you saying ALPs spike because of the supposed glitch? Or is there something else I'm not aware of?


From what I can tell, ALP (25) has lower damage AND DPS than DBP (26). So i'm not getting how ALP SHOULD have more damage since it doesn't have a damage proc.

Alp and other lifethief weapons have been bugged like this since they were introduced to game. Don't know why it took so long from devs to notice they are broken.

[Zuzeq]

An Alp would be the abbreviation for: Agile Lefetheif of Potency

-Vys


I noticed you said you use Ripmaw for Mana earlier. What effect(if any) does that have on your damge output? I use McCraw on Elite runs. He helps with damage/crit but I find myself lacking Mana and health for that matter.




Government of Anarchy
GM

[Rare]

Alp and other lifethief weapons have been bugged like this since they were introduced to game. Don't know why it took so long from devs to notice they are broken.

I don't know that that's the case. I'm sure like most other things... they knew. But for whatever reason didn't fix it.

[Vystirch]

Are you saying ALPs spike because of the supposed glitch? Or is there something else I'm not aware of?

From what I can tell, ALP (25) has lower damage AND DPS than DBP (26). So i'm not getting how ALP SHOULD have more damage since it doesn't have a damage proc.

Yes, but as off recent test by me and psykobunny the alp actually has been nerfed secretly in a recent update or something, so DBB (i prefer brutality 130hp vs. 30mana with the potency) is actually the best.


I am pretty noob to this game, but trying to wrap my head around what is going on. The ALP has the same damage but crits higher?

It used to have a unsteady output of dmg with hits going from 100-800 on normal non-crit attacks but that is not the case anymore as of yesterday's test I did. It is only doing 60-400, where depraved blades are doing 50-500 and have more dmg resulting in better skill dmg.


I noticed you said you use Ripmaw for Mana earlier. What effect(if any) does that have on your damge output? I use McCraw on Elite runs. He helps with damage/crit but I find myself lacking Mana and health for that matter.


Government of Anarchy
GM

My dmg output is defined by my crit rate and dmg stat (not dps) the skills is what does the main dmg that is why the dmg stat is so important. But as to normal hits the most defining stat would be the crit stat. So finding these two stats are my most important I find that the mana/hp regen with ripmaw is very helpful, as well as his other base stats.



I don't know that that's the case. I'm sure like most other things... they knew. But for whatever reason didn't fix it.

It seems to have been fixed as of late....

-Vys

[Rare]

It seems to have been fixed as of late....

-Vys

I don't think so. I tested it yesterday using just melee attack on a single elite mob.

With ALP (21!!!) it took half the time to kill that mob than with DBP (26).

[Vystirch]

I don't think so. I tested it yesterday using just melee attack on a single elite mob.

With ALP (21!!!) it took half the time to kill that mob than with DBP (26).

My test with bunny proved otherwise, sometimes DBB proved more powerful than ALP and other times ALP proved better, but for the majority of the time I found DBB better. This could be because I tested in normal pirate maps....?


-Vys

[Rare]

My test with bunny proved otherwise, sometimes DBB proved more powerful than ALP and other times ALP proved better, but for the majority of the time I found DBB better. This could be because I tested in normal pirate maps....?


-Vys

I'll try again later. I was in elite Brack testing on those first mobs. With ALP21 it took about 30 seconds with just melee and no pet to kill it. With DBP it took a little over a minute.

BTW, this test was inspired by someone else who mentioned it in another thread (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?89051-Comparing-21-CLEVER-lifethief-vs-26-Depraved-Potency). And I was able to confirm it.

[Vystirch]

I'll try again later. I was in elite Brack testing on those first mobs. With ALP21 it took about 30 seconds with just melee and no pet to kill it. With DBP it took a little over a minute.

BTW, this test was inspired by someone else who mentioned it in another thread (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?89051-Comparing-21-CLEVER-lifethief-vs-26-Depraved-Potency). And I was able to confirm it.

Hmm interesting because I was testing with lvl25 ALP and lvl26 DBB. Well either way looks like ALP will be nerfed....

[Rare]

Hmm interesting because I was testing with lvl25 ALP and lvl26 DBB. Well either way looks like ALP will be nerfed....

Hmmmm I don't have L25 ALP to test. Maybe if you have time you can try 21 vs 25?

[Vystirch]

Hmmmm I don't have L25 ALP to test. Maybe can try 21 vs 25?

Actually bunny had the 25 I had the lvl21 alp. Lvl25 alp is better than lvl21 alp, but for some reason our tests proved DBB very slightly better.

[JaytB]

Actually bunny had the 25 I had the lvl21 alp. Lvl25 alp is better than lvl21 alp, but for some reason our tests proved DBB very slightly better.

I just tested DBB (lv26) vs ALP (lv25) in elite marine reef. Using normal attack only, mobs die about twice as fast with ALP as compared to with DBB.

[Spicy1]

They haven't fixed weapons yet. But they will with patch next week. Atleast I hope so.

Edit: Btw Aedenos go check my thread in trade section :)

[Vystirch]

I just tested DBB (lv26) vs ALP (lv25) in elite marine reef. Using normal attack only, mobs die about twice as fast with ALP as compared to with DBB.

Hmm so prob. the difference is that I did it on normal maps.... I don't know why my tests came out weird....

[gundamsone]

It would be wiser for them to drop an elite dagger similar to lifethiefs instead of nerfing them as a whole.

[yoho]

It would be wiser for them to drop an elite dagger similar to lifethiefs instead of nerfing them as a whole.

Yes, cause after lifethiefs nerf (yeah, their time is done, considering they are dropping from Jarl) there would be no weapon choice for rogue. Depraved? Lame proc. Flintlocks? Not for pvp. Heartseekers/demonblades - lvl25 max, old maps.
We need rebranded lifethiefs (lvl26, another title, color and proc) dropped from new maps. Other way it would influence balance badly.

[McBain]

True, but the only two advantages of it rly are:

1. Move fast in area you have already killed

2. The defense percent decrease on enemies.... But this is a low chance....

It Is a skill more geared towards PvP tbh.

-Vys

The whole point of it as I see it is to be able to zip in quickly to attack a target or group of targets before they have the chance to attack you. And when you get used to using it in conjunction with other skills, such as razor shield and trap, it becomes very useful for pve.

[FluffNStuff]

I like the idea of bows cause I am too lazy to walk up to a mob to hit it. What kind of a hit will I be taking to my game play in the higher levels, as the bow I have now seems to be stronger then other weapons of this level (L13 Snowstorm bow of brutality) but it sounds like this DBB or ALP is the way to go at higher levels. Am I fooling myself thinking I can stick with bows or do Level 25-26 bows at least stand up decently to these weapons?

[Vystirch]

I like the idea of bows cause I am too lazy to walk up to a mob to hit it. What kind of a hit will I be taking to my game play in the higher levels, as the bow I have now seems to be stronger then other weapons of this level (L13 Snowstorm bow of brutality) but it sounds like this DBB or ALP is the way to go at higher levels. Am I fooling myself thinking I can stick with bows or do Level 25-26 bows at least stand up decently to these weapons?

If u want to use bow just use it for bosses only...... That's what I do when I'm at a boss that eats me up.

[June Bug]

The whole point of it as I see it is to be able to zip in quickly to attack a target or group of targets before they have the chance to attack you. And when you get used to using it in conjunction with other skills, such as razor shield and trap, it becomes very useful for pve.

Pierce is a critical skill imo. The zipping around is huge, especially if you die and need to get back to the end of the map. Also, its a good way to heal if you dont want to spam pots all the time. Charge it and then you get back half your health.

[June Bug]

Yes, but as off recent test by me and psykobunny the alp actually has been nerfed secretly in a recent update or something, so DBB (i prefer brutality 130hp vs. 30mana with the potency) is actually the best.



It used to have a unsteady output of dmg with hits going from 100-800 on normal non-crit attacks but that is not the case anymore as of yesterday's test I did. It is only doing 60-400, where depraved blades are doing 50-500 and have more dmg resulting in better skill dmg.



My dmg output is defined by my crit rate and dmg stat (not dps) the skills is what does the main dmg that is why the dmg stat is so important. But as to normal hits the most defining stat would be the crit stat. So finding these two stats are my most important I find that the mana/hp regen with ripmaw is very helpful, as well as his other base stats.




It seems to have been fixed as of late....

-Vys

Pretty sure DBP > DBB since its more like 150 mana and 105 hp. Just checked.

[JaytB]

Pierce is a critical skill imo. The zipping around is huge, especially if you die and need to get back to the end of the map. Also, its a good way to heal if you dont want to spam pots all the time. Charge it and then you get back half your health.

Although I definitely agree that pierce is a sweet skill, the problem, as I see it, is that you need to sacrifice another skill for it. You'll definitely need AS, trap is too good to pass on, razor too. The only skill left to sacrifice for it, would be veil. But veil adds 15%dmg for the entire party + 20% armor and reduces the hit%/Dmg of all enemies within it... So, veil will also help letting your your party staying alive while allowing them to inflict 15% more Dmg while it's active. So, is pierce really worth it? I mean, the only advantage seems to be being able to zip around quick.

[Vystirch]

Although I definitely agree that pierce is a sweet skill, the problem, as I see it, is that you need to sacrifice another skill for it. You'll definitely need AS, trap is too good to pass on, razor too. The only skill left to sacrifice for it, would be veil. But veil adds 15%dmg for the entire party + 20% armor and reduces the hit%/Dmg of all enemies within it... So, veil will also help letting your your party staying alive while allowing them to inflict 15% more Dmg while it's active. So, is pierce really worth it? I mean, the only advantage seems to be being able to zip around quick.

Very good break down, yes that is the only advantage I see, besides the defense added form veil and the dodge from razor make up for whatever life you would gain from having to first charge and then carry out the skill of piercer.

-Vys

[June Bug]

Very good break down, yes that is the only advantage I see, besides the defense added form veil and the dodge from razor make up for whatever life you would gain from having to first charge and then carry out the skill of piercer.

-Vys

Trap is worse than pierce imo. Some good build advice in one of the rogue forums posts.

[Avshow]

All skills are good in case of different dungeons and different classes of parteners .Meanless to discuss which build is the best in PvE.For speed runs in hauntlet ,crypt ,elite.i use different builds

[Avshow]

For an example ,we know shadow veil is a good skill for the team,but if the team are 4 rogues,then 2 sv would be enough.4 rogues all using sv is a kind of waste.Team work is the most important issue and ur build works for the whole team

[Vystirch]

For an example ,we know shadow veil is a good skill for the team,but if the team are 4 rogues,then 2 sv would be enough.4 rogues all using sv is a kind of waste.Team work is the most important issue and ur build works for the whole team

Your point is well founded avs, depending on the team especially if your going for time runs you want different skills. But...


@June Bug: the only real advantages to piercer are, zipping to where you need to go (first of you have to do this because you died, just don't die), and giving you life on a charged hit (first this skill takes to long to charge only to get 300-400 hp, also there is no real other bonus to this sense the dmg done by it isn't that great.)
Now on the other hand it is a great PvP skill.

-Vys

[Vystirch]

Bumping for someone ig :)

[JaytB]

After thinking about it and testing it a bit, piercer might actually not be such a bad skill. That upgrade of 15% chance to reduce 10% of you target's armor could be useful for boss fights. It would mean your entire party has a chance to deal more Dmg and so killing bosses quicker. The initial impact Dmg and multiple low Dmg hits upgrade seem pretty decent too. The skill also has a very low 2s cooldown, meaning you could alternate between AS and SP really quick, while getting 1 or 2 weapon attacks in between your skills. Furthermore, a charged SP during a boss fight (without mobs) could get you out of those nasty red circles while dealing some damage right before zipping away.

The only problem, with that build and the pure Dmg gear I use, is the mana usage. It's so ridiculously high, that I'm loosing time spamming mana pots instead of skills. 1 SP takes about 35% of my mana. I can basically use AS-SP-AS, and maybe 1 more SP, before my mana is completely gone. So, although it could potentially be good for pure boss kills (would need to test more), it's not practical to use.

Personally, I think STS should make it so that dex also adds a bit of mana. Maybe just enough to make a build with whatever skills you use, while still keep it practical to use.

For now, I'm back to the AS, trap, veil, razor build.

Here are my stats, notice the abysmal mana in it :/

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/e93994a444ed310f2ebff3e222e90ce6_zps3384ac91.jpg


Thoughts?

[gundamsone]

Respeced for tombs build

2 as (crit stack), 4/5 bomb, 3/5 razor, 5/5 trap, 5/5 dex passives, 5/5 crit passives, rest int passives

got around 600 hp less than jay but around 700 more mana
*for solo pve farming more hp would be ideal but if ur in a party more mana would be better imo*

[JaytB]

*for solo pve farming more hp would be ideal but if ur in a party more mana would be better imo*

If you're talking about Tombs leveling/farming, I definitely agree on that statement. For Elite maps though, I wouldn't want to swap HP for Mana.

[Vystirch]

After thinking about it and testing it a bit, piercer might actually not be such a bad skill. That upgrade of 15% chance to reduce 10% of you target's armor could be useful for boss fights. It would mean your entire party has a chance to deal more Dmg and so killing bosses quicker. The initial impact Dmg and multiple low Dmg hits upgrade seem pretty decent too. The skill also has a very low 2s cooldown, meaning you could alternate between AS and SP really quick, while getting 1 or 2 weapon attacks in between your skills. Furthermore, a charged SP during a boss fight (without mobs) could get you out of those nasty red circles while dealing some damage right before zipping away.

The only problem, with that build and the pure Dmg gear I use, is the mana usage. It's so ridiculously high, that I'm loosing time spamming mana pots instead of skills. 1 SP takes about 35% of my mana. I can basically use AS-SP-AS, and maybe 1 more SP, before my mana is completely gone. So, although it could potentially be good for pure boss kills (would need to test more), it's not practical to use.

Personally, I think STS should make it so that dex also adds a bit of mana. Maybe just enough to make a build with whatever skills you use, while still keep it practical to use.

For now, I'm back to the AS, trap, veil, razor build.

Here are my stats, notice the abysmal mana in it :/

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j344/JaytB1/e93994a444ed310f2ebff3e222e90ce6_zps3384ac91.jpg


Thoughts?

Your points on SP are true but what skill would you remove, because from my experience in the past with the four skills you went back to you can solo jarl faster than swapping a skill out for SP. And as you said SP takes even more mana, about 16% per use for me, 16% every two seconds is a mana drain for what? A 15% chance at a 5seconds of 10% defense reduction? It makes your build a lot more costly on pots. I don't see a practicality with SP in a dmg build, dps build, or especially a aoe build. (except in PvP maybe)

On a side note your idea of focusing on DMG instead of dps is a very smart one, because with an AOE build you want to deal alot of your dmg with skills. So you made the right move with adding DMG. In some ways this has made me wonder if I should invest in passive DMG instead of passive Dex, it would be a trade of of 5 DMG vs. DPS and HP.


If you're talking about Tombs leveling/farming, I definitely agree on that statement. For Elite maps though, I wouldn't want to swap HP for Mana.

For elite maps mana is normally solved by having a mana Mage most of the time and pets, you do want to focus on HP more as a easily killed rogue though.

-Vys

[Rare]

Your points on SP are true but what skill would you remove, because from my experience in the past with the four skills you went back to you can solo jarl faster than swapping a skill out for SP. And as you said SP takes even more mana, about 16% per use for me, 16% every two seconds is a mana drain for what? A 15% chance at a 5seconds of 10% defense reduction? It makes your build a lot more costly on pots. I don't see a practicality with SP in a dmg build, dps build, or especially a aoe build. (except in PvP maybe)

On a side note your idea of focusing on DMG instead of dps is a very smart one, because with an AOE build you want to deal alot of your dmg with skills. So you made the right move with adding DMG. In some ways this has made me wonder if I should invest in passive DMG instead of passive Dex, it would be a trade of of 5 DMG vs. DPS and HP.



For elite maps mana is normally solved by having a mana Mage most of the time and pets, you do want to focus on HP more as a easily killed rogue though.

-Vys

The DEX also affects your base Damage... I'm not sure by how much though. I guess a good test would be to equip Wrathjaw and see how much your damage changes since it is pretty close to the 25 dex you would get from the passives.

Also, I'm still not clear if the damage passive affects bonus damage or base damage. Base damage seem more logical. And I'm still not even sure how bonus damage works. It seems like it is a multiplier against your actual damage. That's the only way I can really account for 2k+ crits.

[Vystirch]

The DEX also affects your base Damage... I'm not sure by how much though. I guess a good test would be to equip Wrathjaw and see how much your damage changes since it is pretty close to the 25 dex you would get from the passives.

Also, I'm still not clear if the damage passive affects bonus damage or base damage. Base damage seem more logical. And I'm still not even sure how bonus damage works. It seems like it is a multiplier against your actual damage. That's the only way I can really account for 2k+ crits.

Yah I forgot if the passive dmg was for dmg bonus or base dmg. If it's for the bonus then there is no need what so ever. It does seem that passive dex is still the best for a rogue.

[gundamsone]

If you're talking about Tombs leveling/farming, I definitely agree on that statement. For Elite maps though, I wouldn't want to swap HP for Mana.

yea purely pve for kills but I manage with 1600 base hp @ jarl
I find it ideal for rogues to have 1k+ mana so you're not unproductively spamming mana pots the whole time