RIP Vengeful ?

[Wowsome]

VB still retains goodies but with the mana buff gone, will it still be the hot favorite skill it was? What do you think?

Wowsome

[digitalbot]

i tried one go and well it does replenish mana.. hower with the new gear we hold more mana anyways

aswell as with the taunts.. really really not complaining...
just we need more skill now ,better timing. (:

[Sibayjing]

As I said, we can renamed Vengeful by VengeNothing.

No manaa regen= scapegoat warrior in Pvp. We don't have a high damage and now we have a short regen mana for using defensive and low attack skill.

[digitalbot]

As I said, we can renamed Vengeful by VengeNothing.

No manaa regen= scapegoat warrior in Pvp. We don't have a high damage and now we have a short regen mana for using defensive and low attack skill.

mages come into play now, its a team work based game so..

[Samhayne]

I posted this to the patch notes thread, but it is worth repeating here:


Hey Sibayjing,

Try using a taunt skill after you hit Vengeful Blood. How it works is this:

Vengeful Blood puts a debuff on all nearby enemies that when they hit someone will give them health and mana. If you use a skill with a Taunt (like upgraded Windmill) all the mobs will hit you after Vengeful Blood and you'll get a lot of mana back! It can also help your friends too if they get hit.

Also note that the debuff in PvP is stronger (gives more mana/health) since you don't have the potential for the mobs like you do in PvE.

Respecs are free through Monday so try out some different builds and experiment!

[Wowsome]

[EDIT] thanks Sam :) trying different things ...

[digitalbot]

wow awesome sam 'yes i have noticed this, i like it.. haha

[HumbleSage]

This is a serious blow to VB. The mana boost was a key component to having an effective and powerful warrior able to use all his skills.

Given the current difficulty of elite mode minions and bosses we need this mana boost to effectively dish out our skills and damage effectively. Throw in our "tank" role and potting becomes increasing difficult not to mention expensive. Can't even HoR as much anymore which not only cripples the warrior, but entire parties as well that rely on it's healing and 2 brief seconds of invulnerability. This will affect the overall playability of the warrior. Who wants to play a character where you may be stuck normal attacking all the time?

I disagree with digitalbot on the gear balance. I'm wearing great gear (LVL 26 Legendary Will gear mind you) and the offset doesn't justify the use... especially with large mobs. For pure strength warriors, like myself, you will notice this immediately. My first go around in a normal run of Ancient Mariner Reef, with a party I found myself potting my mana ridiculously. Even when mobs were defeated I have to sit and wait for recharge and move forward. Again a blow to playability. It takes long enough to dig up a locked chest from an enemy let alone I shouldn't have to take pauses in the same stages for mana to recharge.

Bring back the mana buff, immediately... please. :)

[Wowsome]

This is a serious blow to VB. The mana boost was a key component to having an effective and powerful warrior able to use all his skills.

Given the current difficulty of elite mode minions and bosses we need this mana boost to effectively dish out our skills and damage effectively. Throw in our "tank" role and potting becomes increasing difficult not to mention expensive. Can't even HoR as much anymore which not only cripples the warrior, but entire parties as well that rely on it's healing and 2 brief 2secs of invulnerability. This will affect the overall playability of the warrior. Who wants to play a character where you may be stuck normal attacking all the time?

I disagree with digitalbot on the gear balance. I'm wearing great gear (LVL 26 Legendary Will gear mind you) and the offset doesn't justify the use... especially with large mobs. For pure strength warriors, like myself, you will notice this immediately. My first go around in a normal run of Ancient Mariner Reef, with a party I found myself potting my mana ridiculously. Even when mobs were defeated I have to sit and wait for recharge and move forward. Again a blow to playability. It takes long enough to dig up a locked chest from an enemy let alone I shouldn't have to take pauses in the same stages for mana to recharge.

Bring back the mana buff, immediately... please. :)

^ yes. this.

[Prack]

Yeah this sucks, the rest of veng is nice enough to keep it around but my play style sure is going to change and not in a good way :(

[harimaumalaya]

Bring back the mana buff , immediately . . .
please

Who wants to play
a character where you may be stuck normal
attacking all the time ?



i like that..
yeah warrior need the mana
please bring the old one..

[Raxin]

Its so hard.... To say gooooodbyeeeeeee to yesterdayyyyyyyyyyyyyy... :'(

[Bellaelda]

This is a serious blow to VB. The mana boost was a key component to having an effective and powerful warrior able to use all his skills.

Given the current difficulty of elite mode minions and bosses we need this mana boost to effectively dish out our skills and damage effectively. Throw in our "tank" role and potting becomes increasing difficult not to mention expensive. Can't even HoR as much anymore which not only cripples the warrior, but entire parties as well that rely on it's healing and 2 brief seconds of invulnerability. This will affect the overall playability of the warrior. Who wants to play a character where you may be stuck normal attacking all the time?

I disagree with digitalbot on the gear balance. I'm wearing great gear (LVL 26 Legendary Will gear mind you) and the offset doesn't justify the use... especially with large mobs. For pure strength warriors, like myself, you will notice this immediately. My first go around in a normal run of Ancient Mariner Reef, with a party I found myself potting my mana ridiculously. Even when mobs were defeated I have to sit and wait for recharge and move forward. Again a blow to playability. It takes long enough to dig up a locked chest from an enemy let alone I shouldn't have to take pauses in the same stages for mana to recharge.

Bring back the mana buff, immediately... please. :)

Yes please... It's already so hard to spam pots. Now we trying to spam mana too :(

[Samhayne]

Come on guys, use the free respecs and try out some different builds. It's not so bad to put a few points into INT so you have some more mana to start with. Also, if you hit charged Vengeful Blood and then hit Charged Windmill into a group of mobs, not only will you lay down some nice damage (the Veng blood + is very nice) but you'll taunt them, take the hits, get the mana and keep your team rolling as they can lay down hurt into the mob without worry about agro (because you just taunted them all).

Adapt, improvise and overcome!

[Wowsome]

Yes, the more people you have hitting you, that are affected by Vengeful Blood, the more health and mana you get back. If you have 5-7 enemies hitting you, you'll fill your mana up in no time. Also, Vengeful Blood gives more mana and health per hit in PvP, since you don't tend to get hit by so many targets as quickly there, so it should still be good in PvP. Of course this is a bit of a different type of skill and the first time we're doing something like this, so numbers might have to be adjusted. I really like the gameplay of it though, it rewards the Warrior for clever use of his skills. Before it was just kind of brain dead, use it every time it's off cooldown and you'll never run out of mana, not balanced or interesting.

... interesting but still quite a nerf.

[Wowsome]

Come on guys, use the free respecs and try out some different builds. It's not so bad to put a few points into INT so you have some more mana to start with. Also, if you hit charged Vengeful Blood and then hit Charged Windmill into a group of mobs, not only will you lay down some nice damage (the Veng blood + is very nice) but you'll taunt them, take the hits, get the mana and keep your team rolling as they can lay down hurt into the mob without worry about agro (because you just taunted them all).

Adapt, improvise and overcome!

will do .. also some math crunching ..!

[harimaumalaya]

Put some point on int..warrior already have a low damage
Put some and get some crap..

When mana is out,skill is cooldown
Just stand there like Mr.crap and use normal attack..
Sent from my MT11i using Tapatalk 2

[Mysticaleagle]

Come on guys, use the free respecs and try out some different builds. It's not so bad to put a few points into INT so you have some more mana to start with. Also, if you hit charged Vengeful Blood and then hit Charged Windmill into a group of mobs, not only will you lay down some nice damage (the Veng blood + is very nice) but you'll taunt them, take the hits, get the mana and keep your team rolling as they can lay down hurt into the mob without worry about agro (because you just taunted them all).

Adapt, improvise and overcome!

Amen!

[HumbleSage]

Free respec is nice. It's obvious that STS sees this as a severe nerf to give players this opportunity, but realistically the warrior doesn't do enough damage, even after all the changes made for it in the last patch. Running elite's is already hard enough without this penalty. As for adapting etc... adapting to increased carpal tunnel syndrome isn't my idea of good gameplay ;) Honestly the warrior never running out of mana due to this skill is exactly as it should be since it's primary role isn't a magic user. Giving it the mana just allows it to keep attracting more enemies and holding them at bay while the high DMG/DPS players and hammer them down. This is just one of those things that should stay the way it is. It's not really broke, so don't fix it.

Bring back the mana buff! :)

[searchmeongoogle]

What a shame , it's really time to say goodbye , I'm off from here warriors has nothing to do in here anymore else u make a rogue . Dmg has been nerf dramatic , vengs debuff is useless lol , as I see it in no time all the big donators same as me that play a warrior are gone. Have a good gaming try a diff builds I've try a couple really sucks.

[Shaukei]

I like the new Vengeful Blood mechanics. I agree that mana should only be a minor concern for warriors, but the old version was plain broken. And if the new version really doesn't give enough mana? The devs can just increase the mana restored per attack - no need to revert it to the way it was.

But let's take some time to adapt, first. I tweaked my build a little and gave it a spin. I only ran out of mana a few times, partly due to poor skill timing. Luckily, I accumulated over 500 free mana potions from allies when the old VB was showering me in infinite mana.

[GoodSyntax]

What a shame , it's really time to say goodbye , I'm off from here warriors has nothing to do in here anymore else u make a rogue . Dmg has been nerf dramatic , vengs debuff is useless lol , as I see it in no time all the big donators same as me that play a warrior are gone. Have a good gaming try a diff builds I've try a couple really sucks.

It's been all of two hours since the update...

For PvE this is a HUGE improvement! For PvP it is a bit of a nerfing, but with VB returning Mana+HP on damage, a VB + HoR + Windmill = Invincible Warrior - even after the so called nerf. All you do is complain about how Warriors are so useless, yet you don't realize that they are still the strongest class, but they actually require some tactics now instead of mash button like gorilla as it was before.

Mana+HP return with VB is a huge bonus! That doesn't even include the taunting ability in PvE. You still have your shielding and the Windmill range hasn't changed, so a well timed Windmill in a group can replenish a ton of HP and mana.

[Sibayjing]

Warrior could become a boost and heal class like a Priest or a doctor in PVP. But It is not very interesting in the long run.

For Pvp, I'll try a fugitive warrior:
-Maxi dodge
-speed movement with quickness and Shilo
-rally cry
-juggernaut
-Horn of renew
-Skyward.

About stats point, I'll invest in Dex and Int, without str we have a good HP 2000+. Now I search some dodge gears.

Indeed, what is the interest of having a lot of life If we hit like a fly with STR build. This is just a respite before death, especially in 1v1 vs good rogues and mages.This is more difficult to accept fight. When your Sp is down you only can make a normal hit and at this game we suck...

So if you have some suggestion of build with this update... :D Share!

[inkredible]

This is a serious blow to VB. The mana boost was a key component to having an effective and powerful warrior able to use all his skills.

Given the current difficulty of elite mode minions and bosses we need this mana boost to effectively dish out our skills and damage effectively. Throw in our "tank" role and potting becomes increasing difficult not to mention expensive. Can't even HoR as much anymore which not only cripples the warrior, but entire parties as well that rely on it's healing and 2 brief seconds of invulnerability. This will affect the overall playability of the warrior. Who wants to play a character where you may be stuck normal attacking all the time?

I disagree with digitalbot on the gear balance. I'm wearing great gear (LVL 26 Legendary Will gear mind you) and the offset doesn't justify the use... especially with large mobs. For pure strength warriors, like myself, you will notice this immediately. My first go around in a normal run of Ancient Mariner Reef, with a party I found myself potting my mana ridiculously. Even when mobs were defeated I have to sit and wait for recharge and move forward. Again a blow to playability. It takes long enough to dig up a locked chest from an enemy let alone I shouldn't have to take pauses in the same stages for mana to recharge.

Bring back the mana buff, immediately... please. :)


agree, im not liking this change

edited: false statement without tryin, i just tried it, its not as bad as what people say lol
it just brought me back to my old ways , no big deal

[Rare]

Hey warriors, I'm sure until now you didn't know... But you can buy pots that replenish your mana. They are the blue ones.

[earhole]

Warrior could become a boost and heal class like a Priest or a doctor in PVP. But It is not very interesting in the long run.

For Pvp, I'll try a fugitive warrior:
-Maxi dodge
-speed movement with quickness and Shilo
-rally cry
-juggernaut
-Horn of renew
-Skyward.

About stats point, I'll invest in Dex and Int, without str we have a good HP 2000+. Now I search some dodge gears.

Indeed, what is the interest of having a lot of life If we hit like a fly with STR build. This is just a respite before death, especially in 1v1 vs good rogues and mages.This is more difficult to accept fight. When your Sp is down you only can make a normal hit and at this game we suck...

So if you have some suggestion of build with this update... :D Share!


Since VB heals mana and health now, I'm thinking of removing HOR for it's heal and measely 2 second armor and probably replace it Rally Cry. Windmill also taunts so HOR just doesn't seem as important anymore imo.

Thinking of the following, I'll give it a test as soon as I get a chance.

5 might
5 vengeful
5 juggernaut
5 rally cry
5 windmill

[Sibayjing]

My build suck in Pvp, the long-range attacks hurt me. (aimshot and mage gun)

I try your build but 4 in Juggernaut is sufficient (taunt effect is useless If we have the taunt from windmill)

[earhole]

My build suck in Pvp, the long-range attacks hurt me. (aimshot and mage gun)

I try your build but 4 in Juggernaut is sufficient (taunt effect is useless If we have the taunt from windmill)

Let me know how it goes for you. I just tried it and died twice at elite southern seas map (I usually die more there since I don't bother potting in that map...and using poorman's gear). I didn't use any pots and we had 4 warriors in the party...

Using ripmaw for the health + mana regen and for the 3% damage reduction also.

[ishyrionek]

With actually mechanism, vengfull should have taunt up with time duration, not windmill with range!!!!
Release mana pets! Free again!
How this debuff work? Its released, when you release vb in area of 4m? Or its release each 1,5 sec of vb duration in area of 6m? Or how?

[Knightxblood]

Okay changing the Vengeful Blood skill has made the game a lot more interesting for me, just a matter of planning when to use the right skills at the right time. However, when fighting against bosses like a 1 on 1 fight(or with teammates) i find this skill isn't sustainable in the long run especially when you're up against elite bosses that takes a considerable amount of time for them to die. This skill is only effective in large group of mobs, but against one boss... how much mana and health can I gain?

Unless, the duration of the skill cool down is shorten may be that might help? Well this is just my two cents worth.

[Meivne]

Topic should be named "RIP Warrior Class" instead.

[wawawa64]

Okay changing the Vengeful Blood skill has made the game a lot more interesting for me, just a matter of planning when to use the right skills at the right time. However, when fighting against bosses like a 1 on 1 fight(or with teammates) i find this skill isn't sustainable in the long run especially when you're up against elite bosses that takes a considerable amount of time for them to die. This skill is only effective in large group of mobs, but against one boss... how much mana and health can I gain?

Unless, the duration of the skill cool down is shorten may be that might help? Well this is just my two cents worth.

I've ran in to the same situation. Against a large group of elite mobs, this new VB mana regen is ok. But against a group of normal mobs, they just die too quickly and I didn't get too much mana back. With the long cool down time of VB, I either have to spam mana pot during the cool down, or just spam normal attack.

in 1 on 1 situation like boss fights, the mana and health is just not much. Also, the range of the debuff is too small, so the long range mobs can still hit me without getting any mana regen. IMO, instead of debuffing the enemies, maybe they should just buff the player and allies around the player so they get mana back when they were hit. That way, range mobs can still regen mana.

Anyway, I think they just make this new VB change more complicated than it should be. They should have just stick with the old way but lower the amount of mana regen on each tick and call it a day.

[wrathstorm]

Its so hard.... To say gooooodbyeeeeeee to yesterdayyyyyyyyyyyyyy... :'(

LOL I feel you bro.

Hurm, about this issue, how about decrease the VB cool down timer?

[wolfkult]

I've ran in to the same situation. Against a large group of elite mobs, this new VB mana regen is ok. But against a group of normal mobs, they just die too quickly and I didn't get too much mana back. With the long cool down time of VB, I either have to spam mana pot during the cool down, or just spam normal attack.


I noticed this too. I have to basically not attack at all and let them beat me up so I can get some mana. :)

[Enisceloz]

I think the easy solution will be to go back to the same Mana consumption skills required before the update. I kinda do like the new Vengeful in the sense of gameplay mechanics. It does require you to time your skills more carefully. However in Elite maps when you have all that aggro fighting a mob and you're desperately trying to keep your health up by pot spamming and all of a sudden your Mana runs out you're in big trouble!

[Swede]

in 1 on 1 situation like boss fights, the mana and health is just not much. Also, the range of the debuff is too small, so the long range mobs can still hit me without getting any mana regen.

This is a great point and one that I didn't think of. Expect a change where Bosses and Minibosses will increase your Mana and Health significantly more than normal mobs do.

Thanks wawawa64!

[Uzii]

Hey warriors, I'm sure until now you didn't know... But you can buy pots that replenish your mana. They are the blue ones.

Good job to remind them of it ;)

[Excuses]

Well. This is how I quit new veng.

I used to use ss, veng, hor, jugg. All str, 5 mighty.
And becasue of the change, I used ss first to stun, following with veng, and jugg to taunt, and another ss for dmg & stun and auto attack. And wait to see others and my health to use hor, but new veng gives me about 20% of mana back while my 40% of health is gone, even with HoR on, my health is going down below 50%, and mana is still below 50% because I have to use other skills to tank, and before long, ran out of mana and health, couldn't use hor or jugg, spamming pots and charge hor, struggling and dead at some point, and kill all my party....

It works as it says, but seems not giving enough mana back for me. I don't know how some people says it give you enough mana. (No sarcastic. Real curious. )

It's same that I had to spam health pots, but it's harder to do tank now.

I can't give up str, because I have only one attack, and it will be too weak for pvp.
It worked well before new lvl cap. My ss makes 300-600 dmg which is enough to kill 1600 -2k health rogue and mage.

Now with new lvl cap rogue got 900+ armor and more dmg, my build wasn't working so well because of poor dmg. My jugg, veng and HoR can't defense me from rogues massive attack now.


So I change veng to windmill all 5. And removed all taunt point and mana regen in ss (this gives nothing) and put 5 in passive int, all str, 5 mighty.
I still have good dmg, mana is ok with good mana regen pet or even without it if I be careful.

But still dmg is weak in pvp. Not great, but better. So I give up new veng.

Any one really getting enough mana from it? Or tell me how to use new veng properly?
I even tried to just use veng and activate all taunt skills in the middle of elite mobs, no mana more than 50% but dead. Ridicules.
Tried for two day, still miss the dmg and crit buff, but gave up new veng.


Sorry. but maybe just more mana regen?
It just distract me from doing tanking only.

[Lethalknight]

I noticed none of you guys asked WHY? why u change VB for what reason exactly. What did you guys accomplish from screwing warriors and make our life harder. Just seriously give me one logic reason.

I also wanna respond to Samhayne, Charged VB + Charged Windmill and then you will taunt everyone. So what you will do after? First thing a warrior will do is Heal him self then His other move will be Hammer. Then what?? by the time you wont have enough mana + did you forget that VB has 30sec cool-down. you guys dont take those into consideration. The only choice for warrior will be use pots again and again.

[razerfingers]

Gf venge ily still thoe.

Sent using blood on a bathroom wall

[Lethalknight]

Well. This is how I quit new veng.

I used to use ss, veng, hor, jugg. All str, 5 mighty.
And becasue of the change, I used ss first to stun, following with veng, and jugg to taunt, and another ss for dmg & stun and auto attack. And wait to see others and my health to use hor, but new veng gives me about 20% of mana back while my 40% of health is gone, even with HoR on, my health is going down below 50%, and mana is still below 50% because I have to use other skills to tank, and before long, ran out of mana and health, couldn't use hor or jugg, spamming pots and charge hor, struggling and dead at some point, and kill all my party....

It works as it says, but seems not giving enough mana back for me. I don't know how some people says it give you enough mana. (No sarcastic. Real curious. )

It's same that I had to spam health pots, but it's harder to do tank now.

I can't give up str, because I have only one attack, and it will be too weak for pvp.
It worked well before new lvl cap. My ss makes 300-600 dmg which is enough to kill 1600 -2k health rogue and mage.

Now with new lvl cap rogue got 900+ armor and more dmg, my build wasn't working so well because of poor dmg. My jugg, veng and HoR can't defense me from rogues massive attack now.


So I change veng to windmill all 5. And removed all taunt point and mana regen in ss (this gives nothing) and put 5 in passive int, all str, 5 mighty.
I still have good dmg, mana is ok with good mana regen pet or even without it if I be careful.

But still dmg is weak in pvp. Not great, but better. So I give up new veng.

Any one really getting enough mana from it? Or tell me how to use new veng properly?
I even tried to just use veng and activate all taunt skills in the middle of elite mobs, no mana more than 50% but dead. Ridicules.
Tried for two day, still miss the dmg and crit buff, but gave up new veng.


Sorry. but maybe just more mana regen?
It just distract me from doing tanking only.

THANK YOU. Seriously you summoned exactly everything that I wanted to say in the beginning. Thanks again

[DeathVirus]

warrs had the most expensive gear used a ton of health potions lowest dmg and we had 1-2 dmg skills but now we have to use a bunch of health potions and mana while still trying to tank? and the reason we need our mana is to tank and take all the dmg while the others kill them off now we cant even tank like we used to i have to use 3 buffs and get probably 3 hits in before im spamming both health and mana to save my life or die why would you take the tanks best tanking skill??? its unfair....

[DeathVirus]

warrs had the most expensive gear used a ton of health potions lowest dmg and we had 1-2 dmg skills but now we have to use a bunch of health potions and mana while still trying to tank? and the reason we need our mana is to tank and take all the dmg while the others kill them off now we cant even tank like we used to i have to use 3 buffs and get probably 3 hits in before im spamming both health and mana to save my life of die why would you take the tanks best tanking skill??? its unfair.... forgot to mention our skills have the most mana cost and the longest cooldown out of everyone we dont get mana like we used to what sense does it make to raise the price of our skills? they were not even the best only good for tanking which is what were supposed to do

[Knightxblood]

This is a great point and one that I didn't think of. Expect a change where Bosses and Minibosses will increase your Mana and Health significantly more than normal mobs do.

Thanks wawawa64!

SERIOUSLY??? How could you guys not have considered this???? You guys should have done some user testing before letting the update release into the game!! I know your intentions are good but you should have at least considered all aspects. Right now there is more cons than pros!

Aside from the elite boss issue. After playing for quite some time, I've realized that I spend too much time paying attention to my mana depletion rather than focusing on the game itself. Plus, I find myself racing with other warriors to the frontline just so I could recover my Health and Mana, because if I am slower than the other warrior he would have already taunt all the mobs to him and I would have no mobs left for myself.

Just like wawawa64 said, why make the game so complicated? Its suppose to be a hack and slash game. Something free and easy yet enjoyable to play. This skill reminds me of Demon Hunters from Diablo3, whereby the amount of HP gain from killing mobs will be transfered to Life. LOL? I seriously hope you guys would consider to either changing back to the old VB with lesser mana gain or reduce the cool down time of VB.

[Hiosahaf]

I got a great build now, so that's not an issue. But my point is, what did we warriors ever do to you STS guys that you're giving us this punishment? :( :P everyone looooved the vengeful blood's abilities.. Now its almost like screaming in PvP and PvE "Come on man, hit me! I wanna recharge my health and mana!!"..
I'm not gonna whine much coz I got a good build, but its not as good as it was before.. Please take a note of it guys? :)

[Anindu Bandara]

tried all the builds but nothing seems to work with pvp.. mages and rogues kick bum on pvp.. even if we get a party, still mages and rogues get the kills.. its impossible to continue playing like this.. why the hell did STS change VB? nobody was complaining about it.. :/ the should've buffed mages and fixed the glitch with windmill in the update.. instead they made warriors the weakest class in the game.. just a walking pile of meat with alot of HP :/

[Swede]

forgot to mention our skills have the most mana cost and the longest cooldown out of everyone we dont get mana like we used to what sense does it make to raise the price of our skills? they were not even the best only good for tanking which is what were supposed to do

No, Warrior skills has the least mana cost and comparable cooldowns to the other two classes.

[Shaukei]

I noticed Vengeful Blood only restores mana and health when an enemy hits you. It doesn't work well with, say, the Horn of Renew shield, or a dodge buff (e.g. Malison's). Is this correct?

I haven't tried Elite or PvP yet, so I can't speak for those. But I did some normal tomb, mine and Skull Cove runs, and I'm not having any real mana issues.. That is, if I'm the only warrior. If I'm 'competing' over aggro with another warrior, mana does become a problem.

To the people who are complaining about not getting as many kills, isn't that more or less the idea of a tank? Just because you're not getting a lot of kills, doesn't mean you're not being useful, you know.

[Lethalknight]

No, Warrior skills has the least mana cost and comparable cooldowns to the other two classes.

Seriously man, I want you to answer my question. Why u changed VB in the first place. What was your intention. Until now no one explained why? So please give me one logical reason.

[Shaukei]

Seriously man, I want you to answer my question. Why u changed VB in the first place. What was your intention. Until now no one explained why? So please give me one logical reason.

Here you go:


(...) it rewards the Warrior for clever use of his skills. Before it was just kind of brain dead, use it every time it's off cooldown and you'll never run out of mana, not balanced or interesting.


(...) Without any investment in to intelligence at all, and with just a filled out Vengeful Blood, I literally couldn't run out of mana before this patch. I never had to drink a mana potion, ever. That was broken and not fair since the other classes did, even with points in intelligence. In fact the mana cost for the Warrior's abilities were almost half that of the Rogue's.

I'm sorry that you don't like the change but it's not going back to what it was. Numbers can be adjusted if we feel they need to be but I have to say that as I'm testing it, I'm never forced to spam mana pots. Yes I have to drink some now and then but that was the intent, one class never having to use mana pots was poor implementation on our part.

[Lethalknight]

Here you go:

Seriously!!! so now you think the power is equal between all classes. Now you dont think that rogue has over power than all classes. just yesterday i sow a rogue with 432 dps!!!!! how can I pvp that guy. Even if I maxed out my warrior gears which i dont think so because its freaking expensive to buy all that gear. But still its impossible for that guy to be defeated. Try to pvp for few days and you will know what I am talking about.

As for VB is no brainier!!! Seriously dude, all classes is no brainier. Except warriors, now warriors is like a peace of paper with many holes in it. I close one hole another one shows up. I dont know where or how to use my skills. Speacetime, not only changed VB but warriors now have less dps, health, and crit. So the update not only screwed VB but also Warriors.

Thanks a lot.

[Syylent]

[QUOTE=Lethalknight;1008846]Seriously!!! so now you think the power is equal between all classes. Now you dont think that rogue has over power than all classes. just yesterday i sow a rogue with 432 dps!!!!! how can I pvp that guy. Even if I maxed out my warrior gears which i dont think so because its freaking expensive to buy all that gear. But still its impossible for that guy to be defeated. Try to pvp for few days and you will know what I am talking about.

As for VB is no brainier!!! Seriously dude, all classes is no brainier. Except warriors, now warriors is like a peace of paper with many holes in it. I close one hole another one shows up. I dont know where or how to use my skills. Speacetime, not only changed VB but warriors now have less dps, health, and crit. So the update not only screwed VB but also Warriors.

Thanks a lot.[/QUOTE

Not sure what type of warrior you run. Mine certainly isn't a piece of paper. hmmm

I still have no issues on mana.. Nothing like my mage or rogue. I still have to suck health pots though. Just like on my sorc and rogue, if I decide I want the extra mana I will suck down a mana pot. Before.. I never had to. I have always wanted to use axe throw. It was a waste of points prior to patch. Now I am still trying to decide.

Less health? doubt it. Less dps.. yup... Less crit... yup. Nothing different than we had before.

Rogues dps is up there... yes it is... not sure if it is overpowered or not. From what I can tell playing my rogue it isn;t one shot but a quick release of 3 shots. Maybe the cooldown needs to be adjusted... No clue... not enough time to test and I certainly do not want to spend a ton on respecs for the sake of beta testing pvp.

[Friufi]

Come on guys, use the free respecs and try out some different builds. It's not so bad to put a few points into INT so you have some more mana to start with. Also, if you hit charged Vengeful Blood and then hit Charged Windmill into a group of mobs, not only will you lay down some nice damage (the Veng blood + is very nice) but you'll taunt them, take the hits, get the mana and keep your team rolling as they can lay down hurt into the mob without worry about agro (because you just taunted them all).

Adapt, improvise and overcome!

Taunting the mobs to attack the warrior is in theory what the warrior is supposed to do, but it doesn't really happen in practice. Other character classes aggro mobs with their attacks, even with the improved warrior taunts. Not to mention that warriors in the same party are competing for taunts. Adding to this, mages have stun skills, which although it's no doubt beneficial to mages themselves, a stunned mob couldn't attack. So how would warriors get the mana return if the mob is stunned?

Instead of making mana return only when the enemies attack, why not make the VB skill a mana leeching skill i.e. warriors get mana when attacking enemies during VB is active. This was suggested in another post by DeathVirus. It's a darn great idea.

P.S. I suspect STS classify spamming mana pots as a mandatory adaptation or improvisation for a warrior, which I now have no choice but to utilise on a regular basis.

[Wowsome]

my current build has 900 mana, and with vb, i very rarely need to pot mana in elite runs .. maybe when i mistime/misplace skills. there is no way a warrior *has to* *spam* mana pots.

perhaps ive gotten used to the new mechanics now .. in short, vb is still cool :)

[Excuses]

my current build has 900 mana, and with vb, i very rarely need to pot mana in elite runs .. maybe when i mistime/misplace skills. there is no way a warrior *has to* *spam* mana pots.

perhaps ive gotten used to the new mechanics now .. in short, vb is still cool :)


I currently changed back to veng to try it again for damage.
And I realized that veng isn't as that bad as it was. Maybe it's because I have better armor now(+1000), or from the update, not sure but it is ok to use..

Not great because it gives me mana randomly. (If it is supposed to give me mana back from all dmg, this might be a bug.)

I tried to test HOR and Veng tonight to see how veng works in horn's shield.
And it didn't give me any mana back with shield on, neither for a few secs after it's gone or. Sometimes not at all.... (Tested more than 20times/5 min with the boss of wt1 alone.)

While my mana goes below 50% by using Horn and Veng (I wasn't attack at all), it gave me only a couple of mana back (not mention of amount but number of times)

Well. So if this is a bug, hope someone fix it.
But I have to admit it's not really bad as it was if you use it properly.

[Wowsome]

I currently changed back to veng to try it again for damage.
And I realized that veng isn't as that bad as it was. Maybe it's because I have better armor now(+1000), or from the update, not sure but it is ok to use..

Not great because it gives me mana randomly. (If it is supposed to give me mana back from all dmg, this might be a bug.)

I tried to test HOR and Veng tonight to see how veng works in horn's shield.
And it didn't give me any mana back with shield on, neither for a few secs after it's gone or. Sometimes not at all.... (Tested more than 20times/5 min with the boss of wt1 alone.)

While my mana goes below 50% by using Horn and Veng (I wasn't attack at all), it gave me only a couple of mana back (not mention of amount but number of times)

Well. So if this is a bug, hope someone fix it.
But I have to admit it's not really bad as it was if you use it properly.

try elites .. since mana returned is in proportion to the damage taken, elites return more mana than their normal counterparts. similarly, 1 boss (or 1 of those big crabs) returns more mana than 1 simple mob.

hor shield ==> no damage taken for 2 sec ==> no mana. if u have still maintained aggro after 2 sec, u should get mana.

how much mana does ur build have? on using vb at the correct time and place, i have seen mana shoot up from 20-30% to 100%.

[ishyrionek]

All misunderstandings come from 1 reason.
Devs testing it alone in game.
Players always got 4team party.

So, when u play alone, yeah u got enought mana.
In team there lots of 2 sec healing shields, mobs attack all party, its hard too keep agro, wizzard cant heal cause lifegiver got crazy agro and he die 50/50 when he do that. So its kinda harder with mana.

[Wowsome]

Devs testing it alone in game.


we dont really know that, do we?



Players always got 4team party.


not really true.


ill say it again - it is really just a matter of using skills at the correct place and correct time.

[Excuses]

My mana is 1090 without pet.

But my point was not about the amount of mana I get back, but number of times I get back. And I tested alone too..

My health is going down as I get hit, but no mana comes back to me. If I am supposed to get mana back from an attack, even 1%, this might be a bug or something I mean because I saw I get NOTHING. Or it gives mana back randomly.

And yes, 4 player make difference.
But when I have another warrior or mage they heal me too, so I would say it depends on your party and situation.....

I use AT and SS.. so HoR is kind of only taunt for veng I have, and shield doesn't give me mana back... it's kind of hard...the best way to get aggro is standing on the first line and attack first. Veng on and SS to approach and move around to gather mobs then HoR. On elite you have to use different way tho.

But my wife's warrior has CS and Windmill.
So when I play with her account it seem getting more aggro, but at the same time I use mana to keep aggro. So I have to be careful. Pros and cons.

Anyways. My point is that veng's mana regen seems not working under shield and not always gives mana back.
I just wanted to share information.
Or if it's a bug, hope dev check this.

[Wowsome]

I use AT and SS.. so HoR is kind of only taunt for veng I have, and shield doesn't give me mana back... it's kind of hard...the best way to get aggro is standing on the first line and attack first. Veng on and SS to approach and move around to gather mobs then HoR. On elite you have to use different way tho.

But my wife's warrior has CS and Windmill.
So when I play with her account it seem getting more aggro, but at the same time I use mana to keep aggro. So I have to be careful. Pros and cons.

btw u have taunt on at too (single target, yes).

i gave up the hor taunt since last expansion. wm taunt + vb works great and it often gets filled to 100% mana when used right :)



Anyways. My point is that veng's mana regen seems not working under shield and not always gives mana back.
I just wanted to share information.
Or if it's a bug, hope dev check this.

this -->


hor shield ==> no damage taken for 2 sec ==> no mana. if u have still maintained aggro after 2 sec, u should get mana.

[Excuses]

AT does on one target only, so not working on mobs. It gives small amount only so I didn't mention it. On boss, yes it works.

And as you said I should get mana after 2 sec but I am not. I get it off and on as i tested. That's what I am saying.

[FrankRHorton]

SERIOUSLY??? How could you guys not have considered this???? You guys should have done some user testing before letting the update release into the game!! I know your intentions are good but you should have at least considered all aspects. Right now there is more cons than pros!

Aside from the elite boss issue. After playing for quite some time, I've realized that I spend too much time paying attention to my mana depletion rather than focusing on the game itself. Plus, I find myself racing with other warriors to the frontline just so I could recover my Health and Mana, because if I am slower than the other warrior he would have already taunt all the mobs to him and I would have no mobs left for myself.

True. This part of the game happens to a lot of players all the time. Whenever there's another player (ei. war/rog/sor) that has much more agro (> DPS/DMG) than the warrior class, the heal/mana regen buff of Vengeful Blood becomes irrelevant. The skill used is wasted which also means more mana is wasted, instead of gaining its benefits.


Just like wawawa64 said, why make the game so complicated? Its suppose to be a hack and slash game. Something free and easy yet enjoyable to play. This skill reminds me of Demon Hunters from Diablo3, whereby the amount of HP gain from killing mobs will be transfered to Life. LOL? I seriously hope you guys would consider to either changing back to the old VB with lesser mana gain or reduce the cool down time of VB.

Just re-emphasizing. Hope things will be taken into reconsideration for the over all satisfaction of everyone. The company and the players will benefit more when everyone's happy.