your thoughts on rouge trash packs??

[mafiainc42]

is it just me or are the devs clueless about the rogues ability to insta heal??

[Zyntia]

is it just me or are the devs clueless about the rogues ability to insta heal??


Sssh, just take it. Warriors INSTA-HEAL, did you not know? And so do mages. They just have to blow...and the heals just splash on top of their head, insta-healing them. In a rogue's case, the health pack needs to be walked over to, takes time. Being snared/stunned makes it all the more difficult to reach the health pack. Please, figure out how to play rather than whining.

[Reggin]

Aim at a corner you are running into and drop the charged heal... instant full health because they drop right under you and if you have improved packs you have a three stacked HOTs making you almost invincible for five seconds.

But please don't nerf it... my various twink rogues are insanely OP thanks to it!

[Zyntia]

How do we find a corner in the middle of a fight? Oh please, rogues have to sacrifice hp for dex and their hp is extremely low. You dont even want them to have heal? How selfish :)

[Vystirch]

How do we find a corner in the middle of a fight? Oh please, rogues have to sacrifice hp for dex and their hp is extremely low. You dont even want them to have heal? How selfish :)

There are plenty of corners, in fact there are 2 in each hallway. That little catacomb structure that just out in each hallway provides two corners :)

[wvhills]

is it just me or are the devs clueless about the rogues ability to insta heal??

I play mostly on my end game rogue but also play some on my level 16 mage. The health packs for rogues aren't a problem at all at end game. I have to charge the skill and pick up all 3 to fully restore my health. I have noticed that rogues at level 16 are impossible to kill with my mage when they use health pack. I think if I had a gun with a push proc it would be easier because I could push them away from the packs but I just started this mage and only have the freeze gun.

From playing both it's my opinion that the health packs themselves aren't the problem. It's the lack of damage everyone does at level 16. At level 16 a rogue can keep using the health pack skill over and over because everyone lacks the damage dealing capability to kill them before the skill becomes available again. That's not how it works at end game. After I pick up my health packs I'm either dead or my enemy is dead before it comes off cool down.

This is also why I don't like level 16 as much as I thought I would. All the fights take way too long. I really hope there aren't any changes made to health packs because it would put us in a bind at end game. I'd rather see them buff the weapons at level 16 to increase everyone's damage to make it more like end game.

[mafiainc42]

is it just me or are the devs clueless about the rogues ability to insta heal??

I play mostly on my end game rogue but also play some on my level 16 mage. The health packs for rogues aren't a problem at all at end game. I have to charge the skill and pick up all 3 to fully restore my health. I have noticed that rogues at level 16 are impossible to kill with my mage when they use health pack. I think if I had a gun with a push proc it would be easier because I could push them away from the packs but I just started this mage and only have the freeze gun.

From playing both it's my opinion that the health packs themselves aren't the problem. It's the lack of damage everyone does at level 16. At level 16 a rogue can keep using the health pack skill over and over because everyone lacks the damage dealing capability to kill them before the skill becomes available again. That's not how it works at end game. After I pick up my health packs I'm either dead or my enemy is dead before it comes off cool down.

This is also why I don't like level 16 as much as I thought I would. All the fights take way too long. I really hope there aren't any changes made to health packs because it would put us in a bind at end game. I'd rather see them buff the weapons at level 16 to increase everyone's damage to make it more like end game.

very well said. packs at low lvls are as op as wind glitch.

[Yakiniku]

How do we find a corner in the middle of a fight? Oh please, rogues have to sacrifice hp for dex and their hp is extremely low. You dont even want them to have heal? How selfish :)

You can also run along a wall at a 45 degree angle and drop charged packs. It's not as reliable as a corner, but it works most of the time.

[iluvataris]

And before you hit wall or corner, cause if your right against the wall there's a good chance it'll go through the wall. Mana waisted and most of the time your dead seconds later. There's also that chance your no where near the wall an packs fail. Have to wait the cool down / lose mana but most likely death seconds after it fails.

[warbluefish]

i tested today with a top rogue in the game. as 1v1 im a sorc. im fully geared with 230.1 dmg. the advantage of heal pack not how much it can heals. its that they can through them on the ground prior engage. and walk through it while firing skills. as mage when they heal they cant do anything and is a easy target. as i testing skills with a warrior i found out when they heal they seems invounable for 1 sec or 2.

[TwinkKiller]

Ok mafia, i know u hate the packs. And i do agree they may be a little op. Ive heard u say it several times. But in all reality they aren't as great as people think. Yes ok if u run in a corner and drop packs usually they will drop below u and yes its insta heal but no smart rge does that cause its a waist and a good tank sees that and nukes u before ur next round of packs. Good rges snatch them up 1 at a time when needed. And as stated snares, stuns and push procs make it very hard to get to ur packs. I cant tell u how many times my dead body lays right on top of my pack cause i couldnt get to it in time. Another issue is teamates, they snatch them as well. So its first come first serve, in mob fights i cant even see where they are. If they drop behind a wall i cant see them. When being chased they drop behind me forceing me to turn around and take more damage when the reason im running is to take less damage. The other 2 classes have a built in heal that follows them everywhere, nobody can steal it, no need to run back, no worrying about running to a corner, no worry about getting past a mob to get to them, no worries about snares stuns or push procs. The packs r tricky and if used right, yes can be helpfull but it takes alot of practice to use them the way they should be used. So guys if u nerf them then just go easy, they ain't killn nobody. :D

[nicoB]

Ok mafia, i know u hate the packs. And i do agree they may be a little op. Ive heard u say it several times. But in all reality they aren't as great as people think. Yes ok if u run in a corner and drop packs usually they will drop below u and yes its insta heal but no smart rge does that cause its a waist and a good tank sees that and nukes u before ur next round of packs. Good rges snatch them up 1 at a time when needed. And as stated snares, stuns and push procs make it very hard to get to ur packs. I cant tell u how many times my dead body lays right on top of my pack cause i couldnt get to it in time. Another issue is teamates, they snatch them as well. So its first come first serve, in mob fights i cant even see where they are. If they drop behind a wall i cant see them. When being chased they drop behind me forceing me to turn around and take more damage when the reason im running is to take less damage. The other 2 classes have a built in heal that follows them everywhere, nobody can steal it, no need to run back, no worrying about running to a corner, no worry about getting past a mob to get to them, no worries about snares stuns or push procs. The packs r tricky and if used right, yes can be helpfull but it takes alot of practice to use them the way they should be used. So guys if u nerf them then just go easy, they ain't killn nobody. :D

very well said

[gundamsone]

Ok mafia, i know u hate the packs. And i do agree they may be a little op. Ive heard u say it several times. But in all reality they aren't as great as people think. Yes ok if u run in a corner and drop packs usually they will drop below u and yes its insta heal but no smart rge does that cause its a waist and a good tank sees that and nukes u before ur next round of packs. Good rges snatch them up 1 at a time when needed. And as stated snares, stuns and push procs make it very hard to get to ur packs. I cant tell u how many times my dead body lays right on top of my pack cause i couldnt get to it in time. Another issue is teamates, they snatch them as well. So its first come first serve, in mob fights i cant even see where they are. If they drop behind a wall i cant see them. When being chased they drop behind me forceing me to turn around and take more damage when the reason im running is to take less damage. The other 2 classes have a built in heal that follows them everywhere, nobody can steal it, no need to run back, no worrying about running to a corner, no worry about getting past a mob to get to them, no worries about snares stuns or push procs. The packs r tricky and if used right, yes can be helpfull but it takes alot of practice to use them the way they should be used. So guys if u nerf them then just go easy, they ain't killn nobody. :D
He doesn't hate medpacks, he just hates the few Rogues who he can't beat (like YOLO) b/c they can properly use them to own him in PVP.
Most rogues don't properly use them during battle which makes them not OP whatsoever, in addition how many times are we right on our own Medpacks and we still die b/c of stuns/knockdowns.

[Lalarie]

He doesn't hate medpacks, he just hates the few Rogues who he can't beat (like YOLO) b/c they can properly use them to own him in PVP.
Most rogues don't properly use them during battle which makes them not OP whatsoever, in addition how many times are we right on our own Medpacks and we still die b/c of stuns/knockdowns.

Couldnt have said it better

[Syylent]

He doesn't hate medpacks, he just hates the few Rogues who he can't beat (like YOLO) b/c they can properly use them to own him in PVP.
Most rogues don't properly use them during battle which makes them not OP whatsoever, in addition how many times are we right on our own Medpacks and we still die b/c of stuns/knockdowns.

The same amount of times that a warrior casts bubble as they are laying dead? I stumbled onto packs after the whining about them here. They are quite good. You get a match with 3 rogues? I have went into the rock room and saw 9 packs laying on the ground.

I can see them being overpowering more-so than bubble. Depending on how much they actually heal. If it is % of damage down or % of total health. I haven't figured it out yet because I have been testing warrior. Heck as a warrior... I use them. A ton of rogues use them now.

[gundamsone]

Sorry but nothing beats invincibility and auto heal in this game. + they disappear after a short time
The heal is based on a % of your total hp as well as if the skill is charged or not (& if upgraded for extra bonuses)

Keep in mind often times teamates will steal these dropped packs so unlike the horn and heal where it effects the WHOLE party, these babies only work ONCE.
and "a ton of rogues use them now", well why wouldn't they? do you see warriors running around without horn? or mages running around without shield or heal?

[Syylent]

Sorry but nothing beats invincibility and auto heal in this game. + they disappear after a short time
The heal is based on a % of your total hp as well as if the skill is charged or not (& if upgraded for extra bonuses)

Keep in mind often times teamates will steal these dropped packs so unlike the horn and heal where it effects the WHOLE party, these babies only work ONCE.
and "a ton of rogues use them now", well why wouldn't they? do you see warriors running around without horn? or mages running around without shield or heal?

I never said anything was wrong with using them. If I did it wasn't my intent. The "a ton of rogues are using them" means that we get to see the full effect these have. When 1 or 2 rogues use them it is inconsequential. Sorta like if you only have 1 warrior using bubble it isn't a big deal. 3 warriors using it is a big deal. Which is what everyone is crying nerf on.

Let me clarify.. these babies only work once.. until we rethrow them. Basically if you have 3 packs upgraded and 2500 health... I am well aware... 25% + 15% + self heal + hot... 40% of 2500 is 1k... plus hot and self... seems quite good. 15 second cooldown 57.5 mana

Compare to warrior (hard to compare 2 sec immunity though) 6 seconds at 25% dur = 7.5 seconds. Every 1.5 seconds 238-297 heal. 4 ticks.. does it tick on 7 then 5.. I'll have to test that. Lets say 5 ticks.. 1190-1485 total. compared to roughly 3k that 3 packs can heal not including the side benes that could happen .. hot plus self.. ohh 47.7 mana

Compare to sorc. 337-421 heal 15 sec cooldown + mana plus mana regen.. 98 mana. I can't compare this to the others without keeping a straight face.

Steal the packs? really. That's like me saying on my warrior you are stealing my shield or stealing my mana and hp regen from VB.

Yes I see many sorcs running around without shield yelling at me that sorcs are terrible. Go figure.

I guessed from testing that it was a % of total health. I couldn't say definitively that it was. During free respecs, I tried various combos of the packs.

If you compare packs to the rest? The sorcs seems laughable. Warrior is good. Packs though? I would venture to say it is the best. Especially when 3 rogues lay 3 packs...

Should say 25 rogue 21 warrior 18 sorc. I didn't think to see if a stat increased warrior heal during respec.

[Zyntia]

Steal the packs? really. That's like me saying on my warrior you are stealing my shield or stealing my mana and hp regen from VB

No thats not like a warrior saying you are stealing my shield....because a Rogue's health pack falls on the floor, and even before she gets to it, someone (from the same team) just comes and walks over the medicine (even if he doesnt need it), stealing it, while the Rogue is at 2% hp and has to die because of this. So very unpredictable, health packs are often wasted like this.....Unlike what you say, for a warrior or mage, you have your shield on you, nothing can take it away.

We need an upgrade where a Rogue's health pack can be used only by the one who tossed it, not by anybody else, to prevent wastage.

[Syylent]

No thats not like a warrior saying you are stealing my shield....because a Rogue's health pack falls on the floor, and even before she gets to it, someone (from the same team) just comes and walks over the medicine (even if he doesnt need it), stealing it, while the Rogue is at 2% hp and has to die because of this. So very unpredictable, health packs are often wasted like this.....Unlike what you say, for a warrior or mage, you have your shield on you, nothing can take it away.

We need an upgrade where a Rogue's health pack can be used only by the one who tossed it, not by anybody else, to prevent wastage.

There is only so much room for you to move in those aisles. I try not to step on them if I don;t need them, but it does happen.

That's just silly.

Still look at the numbers. Your 3 packs blow sorcs and warriors heal away in term of raw heal numbers. As level and health increase, it is a very high heal. Not to mention the upgrades with self heal and hot.

[Darko]

It does really need to be nerfed, and ill show you a fair comparison between me and a top rouge. ..this will be a comparison of facts and not whining as some put it. ..we both have mythic end game gear. (No nefarious hooks), both woth malison for equal comparison my numbers look like this (latter is with vengeful buff)
darkko: health 4095/4595
Dodge 2.8%
Crit. 6.9%/31.9%
Dam. 180.8/198.5
Mana. 890
Dps. 203.4%/223.3%
Armor. 1141

Rogue:
AOIO
Health. 2554
Dodge. 28.45%
Crit. 17.42%
Dam. 193.7
Mana. 695
Dps. 348.6
Armor. 868

Okay we will look at stats at 15 seconds since thats cd time and about how long a usual fight lasts... (1 vs 1 )
With vengeful buff, adding horn with 25% increase at MAX output of 452 health, my warrior can have max health of 6855 during this 15 second period....this rouge with 15% add on, and 10% buff from piercer, can have total of 5872 during same 15 second period... (this does not incluse small buff from vengeful while being hit, and does not include selfheal, or healing effects for rouge) so basicaly this battle looks like this

I have 14% more health
I have 24% more armor
They have 91% more dodge ( balanced would be 14% more)
They have 64% more dps (balanced would be 24% more)

Now just looking at stats, warriors strength is health and armor, rouges strength is dodge, crit, and dps. Vengeful does help out crit. But basically there weakness os beong negated woth health packs added with a ridiculous dodge percentage, if a warrior.l wanted same dodge there health would be extremely low. We have no skill that helps us get close to their dodge or dps, so why should they have a skill that gets close to our health, combined woth dodge, they are very hard to kill (3/4) in final four in tourney were rouges. Mages are even worse, having 123-153 health plus 100 over ten seconds, however there shield is super nice....bit once shield is off they are like a squishy fluff, mages and rouges should swap health skills...

[gundamsone]

sent you a pm darko regarding your post