Warrior NERFED? Hoping People Will Voice Thoughts...

[Tyger]

If you have played Arcane legends in the last 12 Hrs, you have probably noticed a few slight changes to either your weapon or your skills NBD. If you are one of the majority of players who play a WARRIOR class however, and you enjoy either the CAPTAIN'S AXE or a little skill called VENGEFUL BLOOD then you are probably still in the fetal position, weeping and seriously considering sucking your thumb.

-I cannot blame you and any rogue who tells you to buck up and perservere is a hypocrite, because if the rogue had suffered a loss in PvP "edge" that was even remotely close to the edge Warriors lost yesterday, they would be whining more than ever. As of yesterday's update the Warrior has had one of it's most prominent skills, Vengeful Blood, completely robbed of a once juicy mana-buff that made tanking mobs as we know it today/playing PvP against deadly rogues both VIABLE & AFFORDABLE gameplay strategies. The primary skill has now been reduced to an impotent de-buff that affects nearby enemies making their attacks restore a minute portion of your mana&health. While totally awesome in CONCEPTUAL form, (The concepts behind new veng make it the ultimate tanking skill.) this new de-buff has proven in early, yet extensive, in-game testing to be quite BROKEN and insufficient. It has forced many players to spam mana potions in an effort to use offensive kills that were already weaker than the Sorc's and Rogue's offensive skills.

-Furthermore the covetted Captain's Axe has had its 80% dodge buff proc reduced to 8%, pretty much making it a useless meat cleaver that will likely be worth half of what players had to originally pay for it in just a few short hours. I really enjoyed having an axe in the game, that was worth using, but I guess the good die young. (This is where I salute.)

-Many players, guild mates and forum members (including myself) have expressed just how much dismay this surprising update has caused and yet all information from the few Devs who would talk has indicated that they have every intention of "tweaking the numbers slightly" and little to no intention of atually listening to the rage-laced outcry within the AL community . Many people are finding their beastly builds completely neutered by a system that has stayed the same through two new lvl caps and expansions and yet was suddenly drastically changed in an effort to "better balance mana potion usage".

Please consider these valid points I have picked from various rants on the new "Vengenothing" update. For more "statistical" info on the effects of these changes you can check the extensive thread regarding yesterdays "update" in the AL Announcements section.


- Rogues have complained about unbalanced usage of mana potions since the beginning, but the reality is that their skills hit the hardest and SHOULD cost the most to use. Additionally warriors are pretty much the number one consumers of health potions when they are doing what they do best, TANKING HITS with their bulky health and (now wimpy) mana. (Think about how much dmg a tank has to absorb and how many potions allow that to even happen... aren't we pretty much even guys?)

-The new debuff mana effect essentially gives rogues and mages the option of denying you any sort of mana regen by choosing to cast buffs and cancel attacks when they see you power up your now pathetic Veng buff. The effect? Vengeance is no longer useable in PVP, ruining any small chance at competitive PVP play that warriors ever enjoyed.

-Weaker warriors, might quell roguish cries of "OP!" for the time being in the PVP metagame, but with weaker warriors comes weaker farming parties. You rogues and mages need your Tanks as buff as can be so that your fragile frames can rain pain from behind cover! This can be observed even more so on elite runs, where the debuff absorbs harder hits, but the lack of horn support leaves most teams totally struggling. Essentially, nerfing tanks is going to dramatically change the game for players of all classes and levels. (I already know a few major paying players who have simply quit playing after 6 hrs of contemplating the updates.)

Normally, I would not complain about an update with awesome new lvls and items, but when it ruins gameplay for me I have to speak out! I would like to hear your thoughts on this subject if possible. Please speak up and let the community know how this is affecting you and your guildies/fellow players. Maybe together we can draft up some useful suggestions for how this can get FIXED. If you disagree with my viewpoint I would like to hear you as well, just plz try and explain yourself so I'm not simply stuck shrugging...

[moonway03]

Can pls sum it up? I bet most will not read coz so long,and im lazy xD

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Tapatalk 2

[Tyger]

KK I understand. It's clearly written though so if u have time plz try and read. Basically the warrior class has been horribly crippled by the new updates and this sucks because now pvp is gonna be completely unfair for warriors and all players are gonna have a hard time with levels because warriors will no longer have the mana reserves to both fight and heal their party that they used to have. So basically this update hurts everyone more than I believe they even realize.

I'm a warrior specialist and my build has been wrecked by this update, but I used to be a very helpful support tank for my guild. [example: my PVE = (8894/7)] Now I can barely get through kraken levels at lvl 25 without spamming both mana and health potions. It's a problem and I want people to talk and help generate suggestions for a possible fix so that the Devs can get some constructive feedback, instead of getting two-sentence trash talk thrown at them all day. -Thx

[D-Zaak]

Come on man, rogues favourite weapon, Lifethiefs were nerfed so much. The whole point of this update was addressing Warriors OP in PvP.
Rogues were nerfed too, but not as much as warriors.

In case you've been living under a rock for eternity, Sorcs are leaving the game because they are so weak. This update has seen Warriors and Rogues nerfed for a reason, to help Sorcs.
In my opinion it should be the opposite, Sorcs should be buffed instead because this will make party's weaker in PvE. I may not like playing Warriors in PvP, but I always stick to them in PvE because they are the best partymates. The nerf sucks for you guys, and a bit when a rogue like me want to party with you, but you're not the only one feeling it.

[Tyger]

Come on man, rogues favourite weapon, Lifethiefs were nerfed so much. The whole point of this update was addressing Warriors OP in PvP.
Rogues were nerfed too, but not as much as warriors.

In case you've been living under a rock for eternity, Sorcs are leaving the game because they are so weak. This update has seen Warriors and Rogues nerfed for a reason, to help Sorcs.
In my opinion it should be the opposite, Sorcs should be buffed instead because this will make party's weaker in PvE. I may not like playing Warriors in PvP, but I always stick to them in PvE because they are the best partymates. The nerf sucks for you guys, and a bit when a rogue like me want to party with you, but you're not the only one feeling it.

This is all kind of my point man, and many would disagree that the warrior as ever OP in PvP. I personally think its far more likely that rogues have simply come to expect domination in PvP and hate losing long battles with high healthed warriors. You guys have crit, warriors have high health thats the way it has always been and it has worked thus far. Except the rogue outcry became so shrill that devs were coerced into applying an extreme nerfing to warriors that not only takes them completely out of competitive PvP, but also maks PvE unnecessarily harder for everyone playing! PS - the captain's axe got its occasional dodge % buff dropped from 80 to 8 so I think we can top you with the weapon nerfing my friend. It was my favorite weapon from Kraken and I used it exclusively because it was a perfect tanking weapon that allowed me to survive. Now it's proc is pretty much worthless...

Also simply throwing sorcs a decent bone in the recent update would have likely done the trick in giving them a competitive edge. The entire system did not have to be re-worked in the name of "fixing a mana potion consumption imbalance".

[Valsacar]

How dare they fix BUGS that you got accustomed to abusing. Damn them!

Whirlwind was a known bug, and they have stated VB was never intended to give you unlimited mana (therefore, it too was a bug).

The devs should be more considerate and ask the players if they want bugs fixed in the future. Perhaps we could all vote on which bugs we want fixed, and which ones we want to abuse.

I have to spam health AND mana pots to stay alive, why should your class be any different?

In PvP, CTF is a TEAM game, try playing in one instead of being a solo fighter.

[Chaim Nail]

I never got to test Vengeful Blood before the update despite getting to lvl26 as I picked what I thought were the best stats/skills as I went along the levelling up stages, I did buy some plat a couple of days ago so I could get extra item slots and a respec or two after asking on the forum which is the best settings, but knowing there was an update I held back on the respec to see what got changed and now I get to respec for free as many times I want I discovered that my warrior isn't really all what it used to be even with the 'fine tuned' stats.

I used to end up in a PvE game (I don't do PvP) where there were 2 or 3 other warriors and things would go ok, now I notice all our mana levels drop like a stone and take forever to go back up unless we spam lots of mana pots, which royally sucks and when there are rogues/sorcerers they don't seem to help very much anymore.

Give me my mana back, STS.

[Sibayjing]

In my opinion, we fight a losing battle If we hope the old Vengeful. We can't do any referendum or demonstration, each warrior must take it upon himself.
The only thing that we can do is to suggest an improvement with the new Vengeful commonly called VengeNothing for the occasion :chargrined:

Keep the peach warriors

[Uzii]

no spaming mana pots well i find it unfair to other classes. I eat them like candys. Hp pots too.

U complain abt u need to use mana pots lol. Use them if u need as other classes do. How that affect ur survivability in pve?



'Vengeful Blood' has been changed to debuff nearby enemies, which will replenish the mana and health of anyone they attack while debuffed.

[/LIST]

I fnd this very useful for every member of pt, u gain hp and mana with every attack mobs do on u. Hows that not good? Only problem can only be low amonut of hp and mana that get replenish but that can be fixed to be more effective.

And in pvp u didnt need to worry abt ur mana so now u need. Like rogues and sorcerers do. requires more thinking how to use ur skills. But thres free respec till Monday so experiment so much as u want to find what works for u.

Rogues lifethief got nerfed too. Their skills eats up a lot of mana and thers no skill that allows to replenish it unless u use pets. U have that skill but its not so ultimate as it used to be and i dont see any reason why it should.... learn how to use mana pots and different skill builds

As i said thers free respec so when u try everything and still its not good then come here and speak what u dont like.

[Rare]

This is all kind of my point man, and many would disagree that the warrior as ever OP in PvP.

Were they all warriors?? Come on.

[Kracker jak]

yes warriors were nerfd big there is no chance at kill ld now all u r is a tank kills r all for the other classes because ur skills were your only advantage as a warrior and now u will b spamming mana to do half the dmg of mage or rogue.

and pvp lol dont try 1v1 u will lose to either other class no dmg no mana just health which wont help u

[Kracker jak]

no spaming mana pots well i find it unfair to other classes. I eat them like candys. Hp pots too.

U complain abt u need to use mana pots lol. Use them if u need as other classes do. How that affect ur survivability in pve?



I fnd this very useful for every member of pt, u gain hp and mana with every attack mobs do on u. Hows that not good? Only problem can only be low amonut of hp and mana that get replenish but that can be fixed to be more effective.

And in pvp u didnt need to worry abt ur mana so now u need. Like rogues and sorcerers do. requires more thinking how to use ur skills. But thres free respec till Monday so experiment so much as u want to find what works for u.

Rogues lifethief got nerfed too. Their skills eats up a lot of mana and thers no skill that allows to replenish it unless u use pets. U have that skill but its not so ultimate as it used to be and i dont see any reason why it should.... learn how to use mana pots and different skill builds

As i said thers free respec so when u try everything and still its not good then come here and speak what u dont like.

yes it affects warrior completely and the debuff doesnt help at all the amount u get abck with debuff = nothing with any class the VB was warriors way if being useful other than punching bag withit u couod get a few kills using your skills now u may as well just stand there and take the hits

[kingtidus]

i dont care about that venge mana issue.my concern is the mill's damage.my dps is 203 without a buff and my mill's damage is only 100-200.lower than the last cap. .same damage with a warrior with 140 dps .I think windmill has a fixed damage regardless of your weapon. try to look at it guys. with this fixed damage, warrior vs warrior in pvp doesnt end at all .good luck to the tourney this coming march 17.lol .

[Zuzeq]

Refer to the Tank class section. They got some new builds that are proving to be sucessful.

[ishyrionek]

Pvm.. Who cares about few potions
Pvp...
Before update i hadnt use lame glitch. God fights 1vs1 with any class was like 1min fight. Now i wont have so much mana to do it. Going close to enemy, use VB, when they can run away/ use shield, stun me, push me back, make 1-2 attacks in that time is ridicolous... Maybe only not with warrior vs warrior... But this is never ending story now.
So yeah, warriors are meat tanks in party vs party now only, when rogues and wizards arent... I really liked 1 vs1... Now i can only retreat or log out fast :-\

So dunno about warriors... Really dunno...

[Tyger]

yes warriors were nerfd big there is no chance at kill ld now all u r is a tank kills r all for the other classes because ur skills were your only advantage as a warrior and now u will b spamming mana to do half the dmg of mage or rogue.

and pvp lol dont try 1v1 u will lose to either other class no dmg no mana just health which wont help u

And this is game balance? This is equal playability for all players?

[Tyger]

no spaming mana pots well i find it unfair to other classes. I eat them like candys. Hp pots too.

U complain abt u need to use mana pots lol. Use them if u need as other classes do. How that affect ur survivability in pve?



I fnd this very useful for every member of pt, u gain hp and mana with every attack mobs do on u. Hows that not good? Only problem can only be low amonut of hp and mana that get replenish but that can be fixed to be more effective.

And in pvp u didnt need to worry abt ur mana so now u need. Like rogues and sorcerers do. requires more thinking how to use ur skills. But thres free respec till Monday so experiment so much as u want to find what works for u.

Rogues lifethief got nerfed too. Their skills eats up a lot of mana and thers no skill that allows to replenish it unless u use pets. U have that skill but its not so ultimate as it used to be and i dont see any reason why it should.... learn how to use mana pots and different skill builds

As i said thers free respec so when u try everything and still its not good then come here and speak what u dont like.

Theres no doubting the new "concept" is useful and team oriented, but the current application of the new Vengeance is so impotent it leaves a huge gap in available mana, because of a 30secondcool down time and miniscule return of mana for taking dmg. Warriors simply wont be able to support their team with horn of renew anymore which will make all levels more difficult for everyone. Sorry I don't like guzzling potions instead of playing the game lol, but keep in mind this update to the Warrior class is going to mean that every sorc and rogue is going to be using more heal skill and drinking more potions. PvE in general is at risk of becoming ridiculous here. PvP wasn't really fair to begin with given the rogue's critical ability and now it is a joke. The real problem comes down to the fact that Warriors can't regain any of thier already pitiful mana without getting wailed on so it's like they tried to balance to mak eus use mana potions, only to make us use more health potions as well.

I've heard enough about the "lifetheif" whining, you guys are like the only class with a top tier weapon that STEALS your opponents health. Be thankful a weapon like that even exists and don't whine when it's damage gets nerfed a bit. The Warrior's CAPTAIN'S AXE used to have an 80% dodge buff that while extremely hard to proc was very useful for tanking, that got reduced to 8% buff in the update!!!!!! That is a MEGA-NERFING so don't use the invalid "We made a weapons sacrifice" excuse. Warriors were broken by this update, if you don't know that then you obviously don't ever play a warrior class.

[Tyger]

How dare they fix BUGS that you got accustomed to abusing. Damn them!

Whirlwind was a known bug, and they have stated VB was never intended to give you unlimited mana (therefore, it too was a bug).

The devs should be more considerate and ask the players if they want bugs fixed in the future. Perhaps we could all vote on which bugs we want fixed, and which ones we want to abuse.

I have to spam health AND mana pots to stay alive, why should your class be any different?

In PvP, CTF is a TEAM game, try playing in one instead of being a solo fighter.

Dude I should be different because I chose to be a TANK with survivability instead of a rogue with no health and great dps/crit!!! Why does nobody get this? It is not fair to force two completely different classes to have similar potion consumption simply because one of the classes (rogue) feels they have to spam pot to much (yet doesn't want to admit that it's skills are the most powerful in dmg and therefore SHOULD cost the most to use.). Different classes have different trade offs and complaining about other classes "bugs" only motivates devs to make the classes lesss fun and unique so plzplzplzplzplz just stop.
-I never even used Whirl, I don't mind it being fixed. Go ahead and fix all the glitches, but vengeance was never glitched the devs simply called it "too simple" when referring to how it was used in battle, they wanted to make it more tatical and they failed so we are trying to come up with suggestions to fix it and you are busy being sarcastic. If you don't have something useful to post then don't post at all.

[Uzii]

@Tyger


Im usualy dead with that green bubble around me thats for warriors "healing" i still burn a lot of pots and still must be capable of dealing dmg.

So pots lol no change to it still will burning like crazy as i always did.

U dont like guzzling potions instead of playing the game...? Are u serious? Sorcerers and rogues must spam pots and using skills at same time so its possible. U just werent used to it.

Im not complaining abt fixing lifethief just stating the fact.. it was huge nerf for rogues but u dont see many complaints abt it as warriors complain.

I dont play warrior. But u guys wanted aggro back and when u get it u cant deal with it. Thats funny. I was in elite with some warrior. Other rogues and sorcerers. We run in group of mobs. Then warrior decided to go alone to next group expecting us sorcerers and rogues to kill mobs but he didnt realized the mobs where following him bc he had the aggro. obviously he got killed too much mobs. And what that "hero" did? he left the map. Now u can hold aggro but u r not used to it lol.

If u didnt spam pots in elite before u realy didnt have the aggro. Some sorcerer or rogue had and spamed potions like crazy.

[Tyger]

It's no longer a matter of spamming potions in Elite as it is survivng in Elites long enough to actually help the team lol. I'm sorry your "hero" bailed on you that sucks, but you wouldnt have been able to hold his aggro for half as long so I wouldn't be talking. You are basically proving my point with what I think you believed was some sort of rebuttal lol.
-Tanks can no longer tank for teams with the changes that have been made and "tankability" is why people play warriors lol. Just because you didn't like playing pre patch warriors in 1v1 doesn't mean that they werent adequately equipped and useful in other aspects of the game and now things are going to suck because Rogues don't really seem to know when to stop whining.

[Zuzeq]

Dear Tyger,

There is plenty of tanks that are coming up with new builds and being sucessful. I'll make a deal with you, if you try some of those builds in the tank class section. During your trails and respecs I will party with you and give you all the gold for all your pots until you have a build you're happy with.

[Uzii]

I dont see how changing VB made ur survivability in pve worse. There always were warriors that died fast as rogue and those that can keep urself alive before this patch. So it will be after this patch also. Some wasnt able to tank some was. Now ur tankig is better.
If tank is dead then usualy other classes follow after but its not a rule. Theres also a lonly sorcerer or rogue as last man standing. Bc he wasnt afraid to use pots.

Just bc u need to use some pots more...and rogues whining? ABt what? I only see warriors before trying to adapt and use combination and denying using pots. I dont realy understand that. Whats so bad on using pots. Bc u got used to neverdrain mana?

If mobs attacking doesnt give anough mana it can be fixed so it will be more.

[Lalarie]

What does your mana have to do with your survivability? Ever heard of mana pots?

[wowdah]

Trust me.... you gotta know. mana is super important for warriors... vengeful was amazing before idk now,.

[Tyger]

Dear Tyger,

There is plenty of tanks that are coming up with new builds and being sucessful. I'll make a deal with you, if you try some of those builds in the tank class section. During your trails and respecs I will party with you and give you all the gold for all your pots until you have a build you're happy with.

I already followed your advice. The truth is my build: 5,4,0,0,0,0,5,4 with 5-Might and 2-Damage SHOULD technically still be effective according to the guides you asked me to look at, but I can barely get through a normal kraken lvl like Grog Beach without consuming about 40 total potions, which (maybe not for a rogue) is kind of ridiculous for a class that is supposed to trade off DPS, CRIT and killing speed for durability. I don't think its very fair to attack our durability so much when it is really the only perk we have going for us, the devs have essentially said 'ya you can still regen your mana but its just gonna cost you like 3/4 of your health to get it full again... oh and one more thing, your skills cost about 70% more mana to cast! Have Fun!' If they made it so you didnt lose health while getting hit for a short period and regained your mana then this shift might make sense, but as it stands it seems like an incredibly counterintuitive part of the update that tried to fix a trivial balancing issue (mana pot consumption) which has existed forever without people really caring and instead created a dozen other blancing issues that are going to make the game kinda just suck. Also my preferred weapon lvl 25 Captain's axe of potency still has ok DPS, but an incredibly nerfed dodge proc that used to help me stay alive and now gives me a pathetic dodge bonus for how frequently it actual decides to proc (It wasn't outrageously expensive but 150k is 150k...)

[Tyger]

What does your mana have to do with your survivability? Ever heard of mana pots?

Yes I have heard of mana potions. Ever heard of HEALTH potions? Warriors already use more of them than any other class (especially in elites) to tank hits for their groups in mobs and now they have to spam mana pots as well. Things have not been "BALANCED".

[Limsi]

It's no longer a matter of spamming potions in Elite as it is survivng in Elites long enough to actually help the team lol. I'm sorry your "hero" bailed on you that sucks, but you wouldnt have been able to hold his aggro for half as long so I wouldn't be talking. You are basically proving my point with what I think you believed was some sort of rebuttal lol.
-Tanks can no longer tank for teams with the changes that have been made and "tankability" is why people play warriors lol. Just because you didn't like playing pre patch warriors in 1v1 doesn't mean that they werent adequately equipped and useful in other aspects of the game and now things are going to suck because Rogues don't really seem to know when to stop whining.

The lifethiefs proc is useless, charging it would only merit me 15-30 additional hp, and that won't happen all the time. What was nerfed was the damage output, you see us rogues are mana dependent - if we ever run out of mana which happens often on one full skill setup rotation, we would have to rely on using normal attacks. The case now is that since the damage putput has been lowered, we pretty much kill slower than before. Trust me, go on and try the lifethief and see if the proc is worth it.

[Limsi]

The lifethiefs proc is useless, charging it would only merit me 15-30 additional hp, and that won't happen all the time. What was nerfed was the damage output, you see us rogues are mana dependent - if we ever run out of mana which happens often on one full skill setup rotation, we would have to rely on using normal attacks. The case now is that since the damage putput has been lowered, we pretty much kill slower than before. Trust me, go on and try the lifethief and see if the proc is worth it.

That's just a less than 2 percent (hp)

[Urm]

I like the "old" Warrior better! Please fix -STS Staff

[Tyger]

Dear Tyger,

There is plenty of tanks that are coming up with new builds and being sucessful. I'll make a deal with you, if you try some of those builds in the tank class section. During your trails and respecs I will party with you and give you all the gold for all your pots until you have a build you're happy with.

Regardless of how us warriors are adapting to this (I can still play & survive, it just literally isn't FUN anymore and its supposed to be a game.) with new builds we are really the only class that is being FORCED and encouraged to completely restructure our builds to compensate for a single update Zuzeq! Look at the update sheet that mana cost increase is a bigger deal than it seems on paper, we were completely TARGETED and the dmg was overkill compared to what was doled out to the other classes in the update. I have had the same build since lvl 1 to lvl 25 and I really liked it, (To be honest I think the mage is far more fun to play but my Warrior was slow/steady and always pulled through on tough lvls) having to abandon my build just to get through lvls makes me incredibly angry when I think about the time I've put into it all.

[Tyger]

This is not what I wanted to get into though, I really wanted everyone who has experienced "Vengenothing" to maybe post a few suggestions on how it can be fixed or altered to make the game fun and playable for warriors once again. I for one don't expect Veng to be returned to us, but I do think returning a less potent version of it (slower mana return/longer cooldown) would be simple and approppriate. I like the "get hit and get mana" concept though so perhaps they could make Veng a short-timed buff once again that simply takes 50% (any percentage devs think is fair would work) of the damage you receive and returns it as mana rather than a hit to health. That way vengeance would still be worth using and if they added even a tiny mana regen to the buff to compensate for Rogue/Sorc passiveness in pvp during the Veng buff, that might even redeem our PvP competitiveness that is now non-existent. Anyone else have suggestions or tips?

[salvair]

I already followed your advice. The truth is my build: 5,4,0,0,0,0,5,4 with 5-Might and 2-Damage SHOULD technically still be effective according to the guides you asked me to look at, but I can barely get through a normal kraken lvl like Grog Beach without consuming about 40 total potions, which (maybe not for a rogue) is kind of ridiculous for a class that is supposed to trade off DPS, CRIT and killing speed for durability. I don't think its very fair to attack our durability so much when it is really the only perk we have going for us, the devs have essentially said 'ya you can still regen your mana but its just gonna cost you like 3/4 of your health to get it full again... oh and one more thing, your skills cost about 70% more mana to cast! Have Fun!' If they made it so you didnt lose health while getting hit for a short period and regained your mana then this shift might make sense, but as it stands it seems like an incredibly counterintuitive part of the update that tried to fix a trivial balancing issue (mana pot consumption) which has existed forever without people really caring and instead created a dozen other blancing issues that are going to make the game kinda just suck. Also my preferred weapon lvl 25 Captain's axe of potency still has ok DPS, but an incredibly nerfed dodge proc that used to help me stay alive and now gives me a pathetic dodge bonus for how frequently it actual decides to proc (It wasn't outrageously expensive but 150k is 150k...)

Ok look tyger im a rouge i also have a war and i dont complane about pots or the fact that i lost a infinit amount of mana on my war i could care less i out survive wars before patch and i still do cuz i rather rely on my pots then some one tanking for me i also soloed pre kraken like wars could and if u want a class that should never be nerfed and i dont have the class try playing as a mage i even find them to weak that is more unfair also wars are still plenty strong in pvp and pve u just have to remeber potions are your friends also i use about 500-1000 pots in a day of farming so ya i use alot of pots

[Tyger]

Ok look tyger im a rouge i also have a war and i dont complane about pots or the fact that i lost a infinit amount of mana on my war i could care less i out survive wars before patch and i still do cuz i rather rely on my pots then some one tanking for me i also soloed pre kraken like wars could and if u want a class that should never be nerfed and i dont have the class try playing as a mage i even find them to weak that is more unfair also wars are still plenty strong in pvp and pve u just have to remeber potions are your friends also i use about 500-1000 pots in a day of farming so ya i use alot of pots

I don't think many would agree with the idea that warriors are still strong in PvP, from what I hear they are getting destroyed. I would not expect a rogue main to mind potion spamming but I am a warrior main and my build was built to avoid potion spamming and support my team in mobs and elites. After the update I cannot fight (skills) and cast the horn of renew nearly enough to keep my team alive. The game is no longer fun for warriors and people are quitting already haha

BTW its spelled Rogue.

[Anindu Bandara]

first of all i completely agree with tyger.
and secondly,
all you rogues that complain that you use pots, got nerfed, we should also get used to it and blah blah,
all of you forgot to mention one advantage both rogues and mages have over warriors. RANGED ATTACKS. the only ranged attack warriors have is axe throw (which is literally useless) and with the high dos and damage rogues and mages have, I'd say warriors are now the weakest class. (and not to mention warriors are slow as hell) all we are now is, just a big bulky load of meat with alot of HP. and good luck all those mages and rogues surviving in elite maps and pvp without the warriors always blowing the horn to save your bums. lol level 26 warrior, and quit the game until this issue is fixed. i really dont get why they had to nerd VB. all everyone was asking for was to fix the glitch with windmill (i didnt use that glitch btw, the respec to use the glitch wasnt worth it) seriously confused with the update STS :upset:

[Rare]

Trust me.... you gotta know. mana is super important for warriors... vengeful was amazing before idk now,.

Rogue's could also benefit greatly from a skill that always kept them at full mana. While we're at it, lets add one that keeps our health full too.

[Rare]

first of all i completely agree with tyger.
and secondly,
all you rogues that complain that you use pots, got nerfed, we should also get used to it and blah blah,
all of you forgot to mention one advantage both rogues and mages have over warriors. RANGED ATTACKS. the only ranged attack warriors have is axe throw (which is literally useless) and with the high dos and damage rogues and mages have, I'd say warriors are now the weakest class. (and not to mention warriors are slow as hell) all we are now is, just a big bulky load of meat with alot of HP. and good luck all those mages and rogues surviving in elite maps and pvp without the warriors always blowing the horn to save your bums. lol level 26 warrior, and quit the game until this issue is fixed. i really dont get why they had to nerd VB. all everyone was asking for was to fix the glitch with windmill (i didnt use that glitch btw, the respec to use the glitch wasnt worth it) seriously confused with the update STS :upset:

Ranged attack is overrated. The only time it works great is when you are fighting a single mob or boss. When you are in the midst of mobs, its VERY easy for Rogues to get aggro. And when you do, it pot burning time.

Besides, regardless of the fact that we have ranged attacks, the fact remains, we use a TON of pots (mana AND health).

The big advantage that warriors have? You don't lose 1/3 of your HP with a single hit from an elite mob. And you don't burn your whole mana pool after 4 attacks.
BTW, I also play warrior. I burn through health pots already. Mana pots are cheaper, so the impact is not that great.

[Tyger]

Ranged attack is overrated. The only time it works great is when you are fighting a single mob or boss. When you are in the midst of mobs, its VERY easy for Rogues to get aggro. And when you do, it pot burning time.

Besides, regardless of the fact that we have ranged attacks, the fact remains, we use a TON of pots (mana AND health).

The big advantage that warriors have? You don't lose 1/3 of your HP with a single hit from an elite mob. And you don't burn your whole mana pool after 4 attacks.
BTW, I also play warrior. I burn through health pots already. Mana pots are cheaper, so the impact is not that great.

It's not potion consumption that is the major issue man, that's just an annoyong byproduct that most warriors like myself have already countered with int boosts. Plz read more into the issue you before you try and argue against an issue you obviously don't understand. It's more about PvP being ruined and the entire tanking "system" of using horn of renew and skyward/(mill or CS) to help your team stay alive is now impossible to do effectively with the update in place. It would be ridiculous for rogues to expect a mana regen like the warrior because their skills (aimed/strike) are so deadly to begin with and backed by a ridiculous critical chance that they would put a warrior down in seconds simply by spamming those abilities. The warrior's three usable offensive skills (smash,Splitter, Mill) are useful but nowhere near as powerul as the rogues skills and the warrior's max crit is pitiful compared to the rogue's so it actually made a ton of sense back when the mana costs were low for Warriors and we had regen (windmill crit bug had to be fixed and it was). Would slowing down/reducing the regen for veng have been acceptable? I would have compromised there, but instead one of our top skills has simply been butchered seemingly without any forethought regarding how other classes could abuse veng in PvP by simply not attacking. LOL

[Rare]

It's not potion consumption that is the major issue man, that's just an annoyong byproduct that most warriors like myself have already countered with int boosts. Plz read more into the issue you before you try and argue against an issue you obviously don't understand. It's more about PvP being ruined and the entire tanking "system" of using horn of renew and skyward/(mill or CS) to help your team stay alive is now impossible to do effectively with the update in place. It would be ridiculous for rogues to expect a mana regen like the warrior because their skills (aimed/strike) are so deadly to begin with and backed by a ridiculous critical chance that they would put a warrior down in seconds simply by spamming those abilities. The warrior's three usable offensive skills (smash,Splitter, Mill) are useful but nowhere near as powerul as the rogues skills and the warrior's max crit is pitiful compared to the rogue's so it actually made a ton of sense back when the mana costs were low for Warriors and we had regen (windmill crit bug had to be fixed and it was). Would slowing down/reducing the regen for veng have been acceptable? I would have compromised there, but instead one of our top skills has simply been butchered seemingly without any forethought regarding how other classes could abuse veng in PvP by simply not attacking. LOL

Well PVP is a different story. You're right, I wasnt paying attention to that much.

I think its high time there were different metrics for PVP and PVE. What is good for PVE is VERY difficult to make good for PVP. For example, great damage/low health, great health/low damage. This is how it should be for PVE, but in PVP land, its worthless. There need to be different metrics and different skill loadouts for PVP vs PVE.

Otherwise, make PVP class specific (boring and probably unrealistic).

But I do agree with you about the captain's axe. That's pretty misleading.

[Swede]

but instead one of our top skills has simply been butchered seemingly without any forethought regarding how other classes could abuse veng in PvP by simply not attacking. LOL

If they don't attack anyone on your team for 10-14 seconds, I think the battle is won. Not sure I see that as abuse.

[earhole]

Hi Swede,

The secondary stats 'int' for a Rogue is amazing. See the following thread.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?89770-Full-INT-Rogue-after-update-best-allround-character-in-game

We warriors got ripped off on our secondary stats 'dex'

A full 155 points in stats for a warrior would net us about 10% dodge, low damage and about 750 health compared to a full strength build that yields 1% dodge, high damage, and about 3k+ health.

Any chance the secondary dex stat on a warrior can be look into?

[Tyger]

If they don't attack anyone on your team for 10-14 seconds, I think the battle is won. Not sure I see that as abuse.

MAYBE and this is a generous maybe IMO, it will help your team... but if for example a rogue hits my team with a brutal aimed shot? How much mana is my team actually getting back for tanking such a huge hit? Certainly not enough for me to make up for the damage rained down upon my team in those 10-14 seconds. From my experience the return is not enough to make vengeance a viable option in PvP and Vengsomething was one of the only things that let warriors semi-compete with rogues once it came down to a duel. Swede, in what ways does the Dev team think 1v1 has become more balanced? (excluding PERHAPS the mage's overdue return to PvP competitiveness, which I am more than willing to grant.)

PS: How exactly are the deadly yet numerous ranged sorcs/rogues going to be effected by a buff that only effects close range targets Swede? Your 10-14 second theory assumes that enemies are somehow constantly within a range that makes them vulnerable to the debuff, which is usually not the case from what I've seen thus far in testing out builds.

[Tyger]

Honestly had my doubts that we would see an update this month. I AM IMPRESSED TO SAY THE LEAST, kinda.
Kudos to all Devs on a crazy fast reply to the community outcry.

That being said... I do feel buffing axe throw was used as a diversion for us all so that the Devs could make very limited changes to Vengeance (It's obviously flawed yet they were insistent nothing was the matter... then whoosh an update?), but I'm glad they are working on making Vengeance worth slotting once again. I think in time they will see that the warrior was never really that "OP", that and "mana potion equality" is far down on the list of things that players would like to see fixed/balanced.

Warriors - Still don't know what devs expect us to do about ranged enemies (Both PvP and PvE) , after all they have some of the most dangerous/damaging attacks (arrows, spells) and we will be getting 0 mana for tanking those hits. The ONLY complaint I have though in light of this FAST response to our dismay is either shorten the veng cooldown so we can get in close and cast more often or JUST MAKE VENGE A SELF BUFF that simply converts hits or a % of dmg/hits into mana, because that simplifies things and completely solves the whole Ranged inequality issue. You could keep all the properties you have now, but why make it a short range enemy debuff when it could be a simple SELF BUFF with a chance to convert hits to mana>???????? That would solve the range issue and probably shut Warriors up for GOOD without having to surrender any sort of auto-regen or further imbalances. So confused about why it has to be so complex with so many kinks to iron out?

PS: It's called VENGEFUL BLOOD, doesn't that kinda imply that it should be a self buff flowing through your Warrior's veins and not the veins of the enemies who are an arm's length away and trying to tear you limb from limb?

SERIOUSLY though thanks devs for being so proactive and supportive of your customers. Blew my mind how fast you guys responded.

[salvair]

Wow tyger u have no appreciation at all for any thing if u would just listen to your self u would see that u are freaking out over nothing i dont freak out about using mana pots on my war or my rogue i have 9999 on all my chars i also think u are being a drama queen is just u wanting attention my guild has mains who are wars and the complane less then u do and u will probably just ignore
This post and type up more about me being a rogue main but u know what that fine i at least play my class because it is a fun class not because it has high dps thats just a btonus im not use to playing games where he war is a tank and not both a tank and an attacker
And yet im not the one whos whining about a little skill its a dang game live with the changes the devs make or dont play its still a fun game and i hope will stay fun and get more things rolling not back track to a skill being nerfed

[Tyger]

Wow. I believe I thanked the devs for their incredibly speedy response so you can pipe down about me being ungrateful.

[bloodyneo]

im back to dark legends now after this silly mana downdate....

[Alhuntrazeck]

Well, not to offend you warriors, but I think this update was also to increase team playing. Mages can heal your mana and deal pretty cool AoE while rogues...lol idk about rogues, don't have a rogue alt...so in this way, mages rely on warriors and Warriors rely on mages. seems fair, idk.

[Chaim Nail]

I've seen very little evidence of having my warrior's mana boosted by mages, I really hate this detrimental mana change STS have done.