Economy opinions

[MysticMythics]

So I got a couple of legendary level 26 items and when I was going to sell in AH they are all priced at below 300g each.. Being they are LOADED with stats and possibly the best armor for each class it seems all the people buying thousands of platinums and opening hundreds and thousands of locked crates are getting multiple items and diminishing prices.. This is absurd because the only thing you can profit on now is literally Mythic Items, Hammerjaw, and LIKE A HANDFUL OF LEGENDARY items dropped by elite bosses.

This has gotten out of hand, Locked Crates are priced at 3k each, We need new content, what is the point of playing the game right now? To farm for a HANDFUL of legendary items with a drop rate of 000000000000.1% or spend thousands of platinums trying to get a mythic helmet or arcane pet or hook to sell.

There is literally nothing to do, I rather not play until new items are implemented and hooks, hammerjaw and mythic helms aren't the only source of income , since the other handful of legendary items have a percentage of dropping equal to hitting the powerball.

[Lalarie]

Those are NOT the only source of income... merching, elites come to mind...

[MysticMythics]

Those are NOT the only source of income... merching, elites come to mind...

I've mentioned the handful of legendary dropped by elites, By the time you get one of these drops new content will be released.

Flints of Brutality?
Malison egg?
Squid Staff?

Do I need to go on with the only elite drops which make any profitable income other than mythic helmet arcane pets and hooks?

Also the drop rate of those items, pfft.

Elite is not a way to make income, not with drop rates so low.

[jaozurin]

I agree with mysticmythics. He is merching n doing elites but u cant sell nothing for any sort of gold now. I was reading a thread the other week where people were saying how much money they had spent on platinum just to try and find hammerjaw. Its getting ridiculous.

[iacito]

for some reason, STS lowered the drop rates of pink in chests and increased the drop rate of purples.

[xcainnblecterx]

Its called a gold sink. Seems to be working

[MysticMythics]

Not to mention the Leprechoblin pinks, The first day it came out everyone spammed Brackenbridge and broke the crates and left the instance, rinse and repeat by the end of the day the NEW RELEASED PINK ARMORS HAD NO VALUE!!!

I had farmed a pink and put it in AH for 100k since it was new content, 8 hours later I check the auction house and they are worth 5k or less.

I don't know, if the devs were to release content please release instead of 1 NEW WEAPON FOR A CLASS MAYBE 4-5 NEW MYTHIC ARMORS, 4-5 NEW ARCANE WEAPONS FOR EACH CLASS, 4-5 NEW ARCANE PET DROPS WITH NEW BOSSES. At least then the LONG HUNT FOR A MYTHIC ARCANE OR ARCANE PET will be worth it, The drop rates will be so low even if people get lucky and do get a arcane weapon , pet ,or mythic armor piece, there will still be 4 other weapons, pets , or armor.

[iacito]

Its called a gold sink. Seems to be working

In the patch, they said that they increased the drop rate of pinks lol.

[sonvolt]

The economy is fine.

[Zeus]

Its called a gold sink. Seems to be working

platinum sink*

[wowdah]

It's a platinum sink... not a gold sink

EDIT: sniped... I lagged lol

[Thegrimreaper]

Its a everything sink...this game just reeks of greediness....make a non platinum based game...pfffttt this is more of a plat suck than all other sts games combined

Sent from my SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

[Wowsome]

agreed to the observation in op .. but i dont see any easy solution .. im not complaining just yet.

[LwMark]

It's a platinum sink... not a gold sink

EDIT: sniped... I lagged lol

Ninjad by 3 minutes..

Its every sink besides the one u wash your hands with :/

[Destructible]

Having needing to share my Gold on all my accounts, I'm not really complaining much. There's always other alternatives to merch and farm, anyhow. If the item doesn't worth as much as you want it to, then just move on to another item.

[Cero]

idk which items you looted but if you are merching the most gears the sell high are warrior's gears. since from 16cap.

quick tip next cap race to 31 and farm as early as possible.

before, 21elite level i capped and farm early and looted vorpal assault. instant 2.3m. early bird gets the early worm:)



add: thosw lupricorn gears are from an event. event items arent rare and.will flood easiky in auction from what i noticed.

[Energizeric]

This is what happens when everyone complains about not getting enough pinks. They raise the rate of drops. It's what everyone kept asking for. I hope all the complainers are happy now.

[Rare]

I had farmed a pink and put it in AH for 100k since it was new content, 8 hours later I check the auction house and they are worth 5k or less.

That sounds like a mistake on your part. Trying to play the market on new gear is risky. And this one didn't work out for you.

[Rare]

This is what happens when everyone complains about not getting enough pinks. They raise the rate of drops. It's what everyone kept asking for. I hope all the complainers are happy now.

Your comment is a little misleading.

[KillaSkillz]

Locked crates and a minimal chance at a super rare item are here to stay as long as people are willing to fork over their dough to open them. STS is doing real well off of this strategy. Screw the AL economy, it's all about the STS economy baby! devs gotta eat :)

[Energizeric]

Your comment is a little misleading.

My comment is not misleading at all. AL is a "free market" meaning there are no price controls. Supply and demand determine the price. It means it's the buyers that determine the price, not the sellers. And if there are so many of an item dropping and not enough folks that are willing to buy it for big money, then the price drops. That is how economics works.

I know everyone wants to get lots of pinks and have them all be worth a million gold, but that just cannot happen. And if it did happen, then we would have mass inflation and it would be the gold that would become worthless.

Unfortunately far too few people in the world (and certainly in this game) understand these simple economic concepts. Just take a look at some of the economies in the third world today (such as some countries in Africa and South America) and you see triple digit inflation year to year. How do you think that happens? Everyone is poor and they protest that they want more money, so the government gives it to them. Then the money becomes worthless.

Basically we see the same thing happen here in this game sometimes. Folks complain about not getting enough good items, so STS responds by increasing the amount of good items, and so the price falls. An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and folks with a lot of gold want rare items.

[Wowsome]

My comment is not misleading at all. AL is a "free market" meaning there are no price controls. Supply and demand determine the price. It means it's the buyers that determine the price, not the sellers. And if there are so many of an item dropping and not enough folks that are willing to buy it for big money, then the price drops. That is how economics works.

I know everyone wants to get lots of pinks and have them all be worth a million gold, but that just cannot happen. And if it did happen, then we would have mass inflation and it would be the gold that would become worthless.

Unfortunately far too few people in the world (and certainly in this game) understand these simple economic concepts. Just take a look at some of the economies in the third world today (such as some countries in Africa and South America) and you see triple digit inflation year to year. How do you think that happens? Everyone is poor and they protest that they want more money, so the government gives it to them. Then the money becomes worthless.

Basically we see the same thing happen here in this game sometimes. Folks complain about not getting enough good items, so STS responds by increasing the amount of good items, and so the price falls. An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and folks with a lot of gold want rare items.

well put!

[digitalbot]

i think that.... your all nuts

[Zeus]

Locked crates and a minimal chance at a super rare item are here to stay as long as people are willing to fork over their dough to open them. STS is doing real well off of this strategy. Screw the AL economy, it's all about the STS economy baby! devs gotta eat :)

It's a smart strategy, and tbh, I like it. Why? I'm not going to use platinum to open the crates, but instead earn enough selling them and merchanting to buy what's inside.

[Mysticaleagle]

i think that.... your all nuts

Same. XD

[Rare]

Increasing drop rates of rare items doesn't have to make the item worthless. Implying that anyone that wants drop rates increased wants it raining AO3 pinks is inaccurate (misleading was the wrong word)

[jtst]

Now items are divided into common that everyone has and uber-ultra-mythic-duper. Smth in the mid would be highly appreciated

[Energizeric]

Increasing drop rates of rare items doesn't have to make the item worthless. Implying that anyone that wants drop rates increased wants it raining AO3 pinks is inaccurate (misleading was the wrong word)

Even a small increase in drop rate can cause prices to crash. Ever watch the commodities market? OPEC will increase supply of oil by 1% and gasoline prices can drop a dollar as a result. Supply and demand is not linear.

[D-:]

With Obama in office, the economy won't be getting any better.

Nevermind, Thread title misleading.

[Energizeric]

With Obama in office, the economy won't be getting any better.

Nevermind, Thread title misleading.

LOL, too funny! IMO it doesn't matter who is in office, the economy won't be getting any better regardless.

But back to the world of Arlor, the economy here is just fine. As long as those junk pinks from the crates do not represent the best weapon/armor available, then things should be ok.

[Rare]

Even a small increase in drop rate can cause prices to crash. Ever watch the commodities market? OPEC will increase supply of oil by 1% and gasoline prices can drop a dollar as a result. Supply and demand is not linear.

You can't compare oil and gasoline prices that are so heavily based on speculators to these game markets. Speculation only occurs in these games when things are about to happen (e.g. ALP nerf, new campaigns, etc). The market quickly stabilizes if the supply isn't flooded. Slightly increasing drop rates (on non mythic/arcane rarity) is not going to drastically affect the value I don't think.

That is completely different to the oil/gasoline industry where the price of gasoline is determined by speculation. These game markets are driven by real supply and real demand.

[Rare]

With Obama in office, the economy won't be getting any better.

Nevermind, Thread title misleading.

BEWARE THREAD DERAILMENT!!!

No single person can fix this economy. Just like no single person can break it. If people are going to be blamed... blame the collective idiots that sit in a giant room together all day and get nothing done.

[Vystirch]

Threads been renamed :p

[Energizeric]

You can't compare oil and gasoline prices that are so heavily based on speculators to these game markets. Speculation only occurs in these games when things are about to happen (e.g. ALP nerf, new campaigns, etc). The market quickly stabilizes if the supply isn't flooded. Slightly increasing drop rates (on non mythic/arcane rarity) is not going to drastically affect the value I don't think.

That is completely different to the oil/gasoline industry where the price of gasoline is determined by speculation. These game markets are driven by real supply and real demand.

There's a lot more speculation going on in this game than you may think. As a merchant I have become familiar with who the other merchants are, and let's just say that a good percentage of the stuff I list gets purchased by other merchants. All of us buy to speculate and make a profit. There are always updates to the game being made, and these changes always have effects on prices.

[Redtank]

This is what happens when everyone complains about not getting enough pinks. They raise the rate of drops. It's what everyone kept asking for. I hope all the complainers are happy now.
This was exactly what I wanted to say...just too lazy:)

[Energizeric]

BEWARE THREAD DERAILMENT!!!

No single person can fix this economy. Just like no single person can break it. If people are going to be blamed... blame the collective idiots that sit in a giant room together all day and get nothing done.

Yes, thread derailment indeed. I'll make one big comment on this, and then back to the fantasy world of Arlor.

I've attempted to lecture older folks on what the real problems in the economy are, and nobody really wants to listen although I think they know this to be correct, so here it goes.....

The economic problems that we face are not local to the United States, so blaming it on fiscal policy of one single country that makes up 4% of the world's population is not a sound theory. The problem with the world economy is actually a book-keeping problem and not an actual problem. The issue is that our economy is so tied to "paper" and "records" that nobody bothers to notice reality. Here are some examples of what I mean:

1) "productivity" is defined in $$$. So if I pay someone $100 to dig a ditch and then fill it up, then the economists would say that person contributed $100 of productivity to our economy. Did he?

2) If I buy a computer for my company which is able to allow one person to do the job that 3 previously were needed to do, and as a result I can downsize my staff by 2 people, is that a good thing for productivity? Economists would say that because the total wages I paid out was smaller that we were less productive. I would argue otherwise.

3) If in your home you were able to buy some sort of machine/computer/robot which was able to do make doing the chores take only half the time it previously took, and now people could spend half the time they used to spend doing chores (more time for leisure!) then most people would consider this a great thing. But in industry this is considered a bad thing since it means workers have their hours cut. Why the inconsistency?

4) We live in a world where we pay farmers NOT to produce corn (farm subsidies) so that we can keep the price of corn high. Yet we have people all around the world who are starving and we say there is a food shortage.


Technology is the "evil" here. Not because technology is a bad thing, but because our economic philosophy is based upon an old model that counts productivity by the amount of time we spend and not by the results produced. As technology has been able to handle more and more of the workload, wages have been cut in order to "keep order" and keep most of the population employed. Adjusted for inflation, today 2 members of the family must work to make the same livable wage that one person used to make 30 years ago. But now even at the reduced wages there is no need for much of the workforce. So large companies are closing factories, laying off workers, etc. -- and those jobs are never coming back.

Ever watch Star Trek? What happens when the food replicator is invented? Does the entire food industry get laid off? What happens when the transporter is invented? Does the entire travel industry get laid off? Would such inventions be a good thing for mankind?

The reality is that it is not necessary for much of the population to work in order for everything to get done. And as time goes on, less and less of the population will be needed. Eventually technology will be able to do everything for us. So either we are going to allow for this and let everyone be the beneficiary of such progress, or 99% of the population is going to starve while the elites enjoy the benefits of a futuristic world. It is up to us which path we choose....

That's all I'm going to say. Carry on....

[KillaSkillz]

Thanks for killing the thread energizeric! :) lol
I agree with most of that assesment. Also like to say cars, air conditioners and a whole bunch of trade jobs will always need someone to fix them. The last 30 years+ has seen everyone pushed towards a higher education, and as a result more people with more debt looking for a management job, but not having the cheaper education of the service type job requires. the plan for the future all those years ago was wrong. People need to be debt feee and working, not spending 4 years to get a piece of paper for a job that doesn't exist, or has too many candidates alreay looking for a job.


Like here in AL, the window of opportunity is closing, something new needs to be created so a new demand will rise, then there will be more sales and more money being made. The economy still works here in AL, just in smaller chunks. The only get rich quick is ultra hard to get, as it is in real life, as it should be.

[Cremated]

So I got a couple of legendary level 26 items and when I was going to sell in AH they are all priced at below 300g each.. Being they are LOADED with stats and possibly the best armor for each class it seems all the people buying thousands of platinums and opening hundreds and thousands of locked crates are getting multiple items and diminishing prices.. This is absurd because the only thing you can profit on now is literally Mythic Items, Hammerjaw, and LIKE A HANDFUL OF LEGENDARY items dropped by elite bosses.

This has gotten out of hand, Locked Crates are priced at 3k each, We need new content, what is the point of playing the game right now? To farm for a HANDFUL of legendary items with a drop rate of 000000000000.1% or spend thousands of platinums trying to get a mythic helmet or arcane pet or hook to sell.

There is literally nothing to do, I rather not play until new items are implemented and hooks, hammerjaw and mythic helms aren't the only source of income , since the other handful of legendary items have a percentage of dropping equal to hitting the powerball.


People who buy thousands of plat should just buy gold with?

[ShadowGunX]

lol.
i see threads only to enjoy by seeing ppl posting how many plats they wasted; golds wasted; time wasted; etc.
this thread is best :-P
AL is again like must plat based games or u r poor in game.

[Wowsome]

Yes, thread derailment indeed. I'll make one big comment on this, and then back to the fantasy world of Arlor.

I've attempted to lecture older folks on what the real problems in the economy are, and nobody really wants to listen although I think they know this to be correct, so here it goes.....

The economic problems that we face are not local to the United States, so blaming it on fiscal policy of one single country that makes up 4% of the world's population is not a sound theory. The problem with the world economy is actually a book-keeping problem and not an actual problem. The issue is that our economy is so tied to "paper" and "records" that nobody bothers to notice reality. Here are some examples of what I mean:

1) "productivity" is defined in $$$. So if I pay someone $100 to dig a ditch and then fill it up, then the economists would say that person contributed $100 of productivity to our economy. Did he?

2) If I buy a computer for my company which is able to allow one person to do the job that 3 previously were needed to do, and as a result I can downsize my staff by 2 people, is that a good thing for productivity? Economists would say that because the total wages I paid out was smaller that we were less productive. I would argue otherwise.

3) If in your home you were able to buy some sort of machine/computer/robot which was able to do make doing the chores take only half the time it previously took, and now people could spend half the time they used to spend doing chores (more time for leisure!) then most people would consider this a great thing. But in industry this is considered a bad thing since it means workers have their hours cut. Why the inconsistency?

4) We live in a world where we pay farmers NOT to produce corn (farm subsidies) so that we can keep the price of corn high. Yet we have people all around the world who are starving and we say there is a food shortage.


Technology is the "evil" here. Not because technology is a bad thing, but because our economic philosophy is based upon an old model that counts productivity by the amount of time we spend and not by the results produced. As technology has been able to handle more and more of the workload, wages have been cut in order to "keep order" and keep most of the population employed. Adjusted for inflation, today 2 members of the family must work to make the same livable wage that one person used to make 30 years ago. But now even at the reduced wages there is no need for much of the workforce. So large companies are closing factories, laying off workers, etc. -- and those jobs are never coming back.

Ever watch Star Trek? What happens when the food replicator is invented? Does the entire food industry get laid off? What happens when the transporter is invented? Does the entire travel industry get laid off? Would such inventions be a good thing for mankind?

The reality is that it is not necessary for much of the population to work in order for everything to get done. And as time goes on, less and less of the population will be needed. Eventually technology will be able to do everything for us. So either we are going to allow for this and let everyone be the beneficiary of such progress, or 99% of the population is going to starve while the elites enjoy the benefits of a futuristic world. It is up to us which path we choose....

That's all I'm going to say. Carry on....

good read! :)

[Mysticaleagle]

It's true that it's going a bit nuts.

25 million for one single weapon, or 8 million for one single helmet.

Things that some normal players will never acquire.

[Vystirch]

It's true that it's going a bit nuts.

25 million for one single weapon, or 8 million for one single helmet.

Things that most normal players will never acquire.


Fixed

[Mysticaleagle]

Fixed

Please don't start editing my posts..

[Vystirch]

Please don't start editing my posts..

... Ok :( but It was so fun!

[Asmodaie]

It's true that it's going a bit nuts.

25 million for one single weapon, or 8 million for one single helmet.

Things that some normal players will never acquire.

No wonder the economy is going nuts, from a monetary perspective, it is a nutty economy. Think about it for a while: gold is created by user actions in game and platinum. It is created out of thin air. Then it exchanges hands a few times through player to player transactions (the auction house). Then gold is destroyed again by buying mana pots, elixers, vanity items, and eggs.

From a monetary perspective this economy is completely insane and it is strange that it doesnt explode once in a while. Strangely, the auction house seems to make it somewhat robust. Well, that, and the fact that most people except for merchandisers and saoudis will never make more than a few hundred kilogold in game.

If some items are going for millions, that hints that only mercs can make real money in this economy, and only mercs can afford these items.

Ban merchandising and all items would settle in the few hundred gold region.

Btw, this is an insane economy, every comparison to real economies like that of the US is utter horsedung.

[Energizeric]

It's true that it's going a bit nuts.

25 million for one single weapon, or 8 million for one single helmet.

Things that some normal players will never acquire.

Just like most people will never own a Ferrari. There is nothing wrong with that. It is the way it should be. A rare item means exactly that -- there are so few that most people will never have it. If most people are able to acquire it, then it is common.

There should always be something better to work towards. Very few players should ever reach a point in this game where they have achieved everything and have nothing more to work towards. The only way for that to happen is to have very rare items that only a few players will have.

And in response to the post above that said without plat you will be poor, that is simply not true. I am not poor, I even managed to save up enough gold to buy a mythic helm. And I have never spent a lot of plat. I have never bought any gold with plat, and I have only opened a few locked crates (maybe a dozen) and never got anything good from them. I just play smart, sell the chests I get while farming, do some merching, and save up my gold.

[Raxin]

All game economies are like this as gold is created with no repercussion. If you think it sucks now just wait its getting worse. These high prices are like a snowball rolling down a hill...

[Asmodaie]

All game economies are like this as gold is created with no repercussion. If you think it sucks now just wait its getting worse. These high prices are like a snowball rolling down a hill...

Gold is destructed too. It vanishes from the system again with purchases of vanities, elixers, potions, and people leaving. I agree, from a monetary perspective these game economies are really bizar.

[Rare]

Please start editing my posts..

Fine you win.

[Asmodaie]

Anyway, I had a long post on this topic, but too summarize: the gold creation/destruction cycle for game economies is just particularly odd. In the end, I think that what you see happening now is that too much gold is created which is only accessible by merchs. People who trade the whole day. Most other people will just be stuck with normal items from the few hundred kilogold they make during normal play.

The good part is that high prices mean that this game is becoming more popular, i guess.

From a monetary perspective. It looks that there is an overflow of gold, and not enough sinks. So, introduce eggs which can only be bought from the system for a million gold, not plat, and the problem is solved.

[Uzii]

Just like most people will never own a Ferrari. There is nothing wrong with that. It is the way it should be. A rare item means exactly that -- there are so few that most people will never have it. If most people are able to acquire it, then it is common.

There should always be something better to work towards. Very few players should ever reach a point in this game where they have achieved everything and have nothing more to work towards. The only way for that to happen is to have very rare items that only a few players will have.

And in response to the post above that said without plat you will be poor, that is simply not true. I am not poor, I even managed to save up enough gold to buy a mythic helm. And I have never spent a lot of plat. I have never bought any gold with plat, and I have only opened a few locked crates (maybe a dozen) and never got anything good from them. I just play smart, sell the chests I get while farming, do some merching, and save up my gold.

Can u pls stop comparing game with real life? This is a game u play bc its fun and not complicated. Im not saying its should be easy obtainable but it should be more possible as in real life. For many many ppl ownig a "ferrari" is almost impossible.

Im not saying this bc i want own one im not even trying but for some ppl that want it should be possible.

Dont compare what is not comparable. This is a game not real life.

[Mysticaleagle]

Fine you win.

No popcorns for you. :witless:


This is a game not real life.

Agreed.

[Energizeric]

Can u pls stop comparing game with real life? This is a game u play bc its fun and not complicated. Im not saying its should be easy obtainable but it should be more possible as in real life. For many many ppl ownig a "ferrari" is almost impossible.

Im not saying this bc i want own one im not even trying but for some ppl that want it should be possible.

Dont compare what is not comparable. This is a game not real life.

It is possible for everyone if you put in enough time and save your gold. Most players do not want to (or are not able to) put in the required time to save up enough gold for such items. But those who do are certainly deserving of having those items.

And guess what? There are plenty of nice items that most players can have. What you really are suggesting is that there should be no arcane or mythic items at all. Because if you make them more common then they will be no more rare than regular legendary pinks. So say what you mean. You don't think there should be any rare items. You think everyone should be able to have the same exact gear.

Well there are plenty of MMOs that exist where this is the case. Just play PL if you want a good example. Everyone in PL complained because some items were too expensive, so now the drop rates of all the items were raised and now everyone can afford everything. So most of the elite players got bored and left, so the game is now pretty empty. But lots of noobs love it because they can play for a few weeks and have everything they want.

Sorry, but some of us want a game that presents a challenge. A game where I can play multiple hours per day, and a year later I still don't have everything I want. Because once I have everything I want, then I get bored and move on to another game. If that happens in one month, then the game will be a failure. And trust me, most of the elite players feel the same way.

[Lady_Pebbles]

Hell, Im the opposite. I get bored when I can't achieve a goal in game despite how many times I try. I like a challenge like everyone else but one that is literally impossible for an average player like me (who isn't rich & aren't as successful at merching as some others). Anything that is worth millions in AL, to me is not worth the time nor the effort anymore. Because it takes way too long. These are games meant to have casual gameplay & they completely took away the casual part of StS games. Especially on PL & AL.

This is one of the reasons why I like DL better than the other StS games; because even though I can't get a Gamer Top to drop, I can farm gold to buy one at the auction house for 1.3+ million with only two listed. It makes it possible to obtain an item in a few ways not just one. On AL we are forced to pay plat for a chance at an item that can be sold for millions. I believe these should be plat only items that aren't tradeable but are stashable. Also change the crates from 15 plat to open them, to 15,000 gold to open them for a chance at those items. Just like on DL with the gamble packs there. At least we got one weapon gamble pack availble for gold and not plat. THAT is a more reasonable solution to all this plat nonsense & would be one hell of a gold sink.

[TheStoic]

All I can say is if you're a casual player, don't expect to get the high end gears, unless you're willing to spend some gold opening crates and selling the pinks inside those crates. We, the early adopters of this game, has the advantage of experience and knowledge of some of the most valuable gears in play, thus some of us has taken advantage of farming early and merching. But sad to say, there are players who only play casually, and I guess they also compose a big percentage of the player base of this game.

I played my long dormant toon joined a guild, and met a player, hes lvl 25 now, what he said to me was that, "I have only 65k and I can't afford what I want". My point is, there's a certain point of enjoyment a casual player can only achieve which is way below the status of the OP players in here.

P.S. To Mysticaleagle, I own Mysticalrogue, I created it a month or two months ago. I'm not your impostor, I don't like playing rogues to be honest and besides, to copy someone is not my style. To keep your peace of mind, I deleted the character as well.

[Energizeric]

Hell, Im the opposite. I get bored when I can't achieve a goal in game despite how many times I try. I like a challenge like everyone else but one that is literally impossible for an average player like me (who isn't rich & aren't as successful at merching as some others). Anything that is worth millions in AL, to me is not worth the time nor the effort anymore. Because it takes way too long. These are games meant to have casual gameplay & they completely took away the casual part of StS games. Especially on PL & AL.

This is one of the reasons why I like DL better than the other StS games; because even though I can't get a Gamer Top to drop, I can farm gold to buy one at the auction house for 1.3+ million with only two listed. It makes it possible to obtain an item in a few ways not just one. On AL we are forced to pay plat for a chance at an item that can be sold for millions. I believe these should be plat only items that aren't tradeable but are stashable. Also change the crates from 15 plat to open them, to 15,000 gold to open them for a chance at those items. Just like on DL with the gamble packs there. At least we got one weapon gamble pack availble for gold and not plat. THAT is a more reasonable solution to all this plat nonsense & would be one hell of a gold sink.



I understand this, but why do you need to have every single item that exists. There are hundreds of items that you can have, so why the need to have that one single rare item? I just don't get it.

If it's not worth the challenge to you, then move on and do a different challenge. There certainly is no shortage of different types of challenges in this game. Obtaining an arcane/mythic item is just one of many challenges. What you are essentially suggesting is that if you don't want to spend the time saving for this super rare item, then nobody else should be able to either.

So you want the complete elimination of arcane and mythic items? Is that what you are suggesting? (making them more common is the same thing as eliminating them, since they would no longer be or mythic or arcane rarity, they would be just like regular pinks)


Does it bother you that you can't be #1 on all the leaderboards? Do you get bored with the game because of this? Maybe they should eliminate the leaderboards since folks may get bored. Or maybe they should make everyone #1 on the leaderboards and give everyone the same banner. Then we all win! [/sarcasm]

Sorry but if you are a casual gamer, there are plenty of nice small challenges you can have in this game, but having the best gear, or making the leaderboards is probably not something you will be able to achieve. And any game where you could would not be fun for hardcore gamers.

[TheStoic]

I understand this, but why do you need to have every single item that exists. There are hundreds of items that you can have, so why the need to have that one single rare item? I just don't get it.

If it's not worth the challenge to you, then move on and do a different challenge. There certainly is no shortage of different types of challenges in this game. Obtaining an arcane/mythic item is just one of many challenges. What you are essentially suggesting is that if you don't want to spend the time saving for this super rare item, then nobody else should be able to either.

So you want the complete elimination of arcane and mythic items? Is that what you are suggesting? (making them more common is the same thing as eliminating them, since they would no longer be or mythic or arcane rarity, they would be just like regular pinks)


Does it bother you that you can't be #1 on all the leaderboards? Do you get bored with the game because of this? Maybe they should eliminate the leaderboards since folks may get bored. Or maybe they should make everyone #1 on the leaderboards and give everyone the same banner. Then we all win! [/sarcasm]

Sorry but if you are a casual gamer, there are plenty of nice small challenges you can have in this game, but having the best gear, or making the leaderboards is probably not something you will be able to achieve. And any game where you could would not be fun for hardcore gamers.


These are valid points, but what is slowly happening is that, the gap between the elite few and the majority of casual players is widening in terms of earnings in gold.

In my opinion, elites in this game can also be classified into two:
Elite one: pure hardwork farming; merching+more hours spent on playing; and
Elite two: bought plats+open crate+sell pinks and gears from crates+earn gold, then buy mythic and top-end gears=instant elite

With the introduction of ripmaw, increased cap and other plat-obtainable gears thru crates; hardworking elites slowly evolved to second-type elites just to stay competitive and on top of leaderboards. So much time and plat spent on this game, they have to keep playing or purchasing plat to keep their position and status. Thus, they get hold of the best loots, then sell the excess at hefty prize, controlling 99% of the economy.

At this stage of the game for new gamers, its nearly impossible to earn millions and get into leaderboards and buy the best gears unless you buy plats then open those locked crates and wish for a jackpot. Try creating a new toon without seed money from your main, let's see the result, at lvl 16 or 21, gears are already expensive, which you cant farm anymore. In fact, some of the elites are hoarding these to sell at a later stage.

To be honest, doing the nice small challenges you mentioned are momentarily fun, as you level up, what do you think sustains your progress? eggs? crates? cheap pinks?, with your consumption in pots and buying a gear at a certain level, you may have a few thousands left. Then what? By the time you've saved enough gold for the gear you most wanted, a new expansion will come out, then you'll always be left behind.

The economy in AL is only a sign that the richer players in this game gets richer, while the poor gets poorer or otherwise gets bankrupt. Like I said, this gap is widening.

From my own perspective, one of the good measures you are doing good in this game is the amount of gold you have and achievements you achieve, and most of the players, including, casual ones aspire to aim that.

Well, these are my opinions, if STS feels that these few elite players sustains their bottomline, then this game is fine the way it is.

Like I said, we are lucky we are early adopters of this game, we grow with the game, but I don't see that happening for new players growing with the game, unless...

[Lady_Pebbles]

I understand this, but why do you need to have every single item that exists. There are hundreds of items that you can have, so why the need to have that one single rare item? I just don't get it.

If it's not worth the challenge to you, then move on and do a different challenge. There certainly is no shortage of different types of challenges in this game. Obtaining an arcane/mythic item is just one of many challenges. What you are essentially suggesting is that if you don't want to spend the time saving for this super rare item, then nobody else should be able to either.

So you want the complete elimination of arcane and mythic items? Is that what you are suggesting? (making them more common is the same thing as eliminating them, since they would no longer be or mythic or arcane rarity, they would be just like regular pinks)


Does it bother you that you can't be #1 on all the leaderboards? Do you get bored with the game because of this? Maybe they should eliminate the leaderboards since folks may get bored. Or maybe they should make everyone #1 on the leaderboards and give everyone the same banner. Then we all win! [/sarcasm]

Sorry but if you are a casual gamer, there are plenty of nice small challenges you can have in this game, but having the best gear, or making the leaderboards is probably not something you will be able to achieve. And any game where you could would not be fun for hardcore gamers.


Its nog about owning every item available. Never said that. Its about having a fair chance to gain the items you want )which btw have achievements attached) without having to fork over a lot of money for them. Its not right that only players who can spend a lot of money can actually get all these items but when they put them up for sale for a huge amount of gold, the players who can't afford to open crates with hella plat (-or- decide they want to buy the item for gold) can't really get the item? (unless they spend hella time on a game thats supposed to be "casual" to gain gold via farming, merching, etc.) Not everyone has that type of luck nor time. Besides, some players might not even come up with the gold in time... it might become a useless item in the next cap so they wouldn't be able to use it at its prime lol. Sell it? Pfft, new mythic/arcane comes out the other would flood the market and ppl will cut prices as low as possible to gain gold lol.

Moving on isn't the problem. Its knowing that these types of "elite" gear are only for the wealthy that is frustrating. For that, they should just have subscriptions already and finally seperate the subscribers from the f2p players. Then everyone would be on evened ground.

And again stop twisting my words lol. I didn't say elimiate them. I said make crates able to be opened with gold so it'll be a gold sink. =)

And no actually I don't care about the leaderboard. I never did lol. I like doi.g achievements because it gives me something to do in game but the ones needed with plat are annoying and give other players who want to compete on the LB an unfair chance at it unless they fork over some real moola.

Having the best gear is something ALL players should be able to achieve without having to spend money on this game. Point blank. Hardcore gamers earn their gear with hard work. Money is just an easy way out.

[Energizeric]

The economy in AL is only a sign that the richer players in this game gets richer, while the poor gets poorer or otherwise gets bankrupt. Like I said, this gap is widening.

What you describe here is how capitalism works. Unfortunately that is how a free market system works. How we avoid that in the real world is to inject some forms and bits of socialism into the mix. For example, in the real world we have socialist programs like welfare, unemployment benefits, social security, etc. And we have a progressive tax system.

If you want to even things out in AL you would need to add some of these ideas into the economy. For example, you could make potions and consignment shop fees cost more for players who have more wealth. But then many of these players may instead put all of their wealth in items and not keep much cash on hand. That has always been a big criticism of such programs in the real world -- that there are always loopholes to get around them.

But capitalism in its most basic form with no regulation or price controls ends up exactly as you describe. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and there ends up being no middle class. The middle class we have in much of the industrialized world is there because of wealth redistribution/socialist types of programs, not because the system is actually designed to work that way.

The more money you have, the easier it is to make more money. Try merching with 10k, and then try merching with 5m and you'll easily see what I mean. So naturally those with more money will make more money. And those with more money will buy better gear, and then they will have an easier time farming for more good items & chests. So the cycle repeats itself. No way to avoid this unless you curb the free market system the game is created around.

I know up above I was told to stop comparing this to real life since it's just a game. Sorry to say, but economics is economics whether it is a game or real life. The same rules of logic apply and human nature is still the same.

[Ruejade]

Uummm, what if...plat to gold conversion is disabled lol? Would this increase the value of gold? Since people can't make gold out of nowhere easily anymore...?
@.@ all this talk about economy makes me dizzy...

[Energizeric]

Uummm, what if...plat to gold conversion is disabled lol? Would this increase the value of gold? Since people can't make gold out of nowhere easily anymore...?
@.@ all this talk about economy makes me dizzy...

Yes, this would help slow the inflation, but it would not stop the inflation. To totally stop inflation you would have to keep the total amount of gold in the game the same and not add any new gold. So that would mean you would need more gold sinks, i.e. higher potion costs, higher auction listing fees, etc.

[Bastok]

You can't cut out the plat to gold. Yeah it sounds like a good idea to slow down how much gold comes into the game, but it's not. Real money traders will infest this game overnight and then the economy will really be in shambles. Plus there will be endless spamming from an endless supply of rmt bots and people who buy gold will sometimes get scammed and hacked by them. Not a good thing at all.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[TheStoic]

@.@ all this talk about economy makes me dizzy...

Lol, I bet STS visionaries would bang their heads on the table, and say "WHAT DO THESE GUYS REALLY WANT??????"

[Energizeric]

You can't cut out the plat to gold. Yeah it sounds like a good idea to slow down how much gold comes into the game, but it's not. Real money traders will infest this game overnight and then the economy will really be in shambles. Plus there will be endless spamming from an endless supply of rmt bots and people who buy gold will sometimes get scammed and hacked by them. Not a good thing at all.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

In PL nobody buys gold for plat and none of the problems you list have been an issue in that game. They do offer gold for plat, but the amount is so tiny that nobody would ever buy it. I think they give you like 50k for 500 plat, and 50k in PL is like having 10k in AL. So nobody ever buys gold with their plat.

Instead the money maker in PL is elixirs. Instead of only giving a 25% boost to your various stats, elixirs in PL go up to 3x boost and 100% luck (automatic reroll on every drop). Because the elixirs are so powerful, STS began making the dungeons much harder so that they would actually be a challenge to all the players running with elixirs. And then they had to make the pinks and purples more rare because every purple was being rerolled to a pink.

The result was everyone raging that it was impossible to compete if you did not have lots of plat to buy elixirs all the time. So STS had an answer for that too -- they started giving out free 24-hour elixirs from a daily reward. The end result of all of this was that it basically ruined a good game. Even the most rare items were no longer that rare since they could be farmed with 100% luck elixirs. And even the toughest dungeons and bosses can be taken down with ease if everyone in your party is on a 3x damage/armor combo elixir.

So I think in AL they decided to try something else. They have to make their revenue somehow as they are not a charity. So instead of charging 50 plat for overpowered elixirs, the big money makers here are gold and the locked watch crates. It seems to be a case of choosing the lesser of a few evils. Any way they do it players who have plat will always have an advantage. If they didn't, then nobody would buy plat -- or at least they would not buy a lot of it.

[KillaSkillz]

The only one that makes gold out of nowhere is that 70 plat pack. The rest of the platinum items people sell and get gold from other people in the game (mostly though people were taking chances on locked crates for the pets and selling the pinks they get which is no creating gold from nowhere). I guess they could take the gold out of that pack and lower the plat cost, but thats not how people are getting rich, and I don't think it will change much. Me I am constantly selling, and buying low and reselling. I've opened some locked crates trying to get the pets and gotten a few good pink weapons to sell but the majority is low priced pinks. I've only managed to build up 1.4 million gold and I am very tight with it normally.

An economy is not an easy fix. I don't think taking or adding gold will fix it. And while playing with the drop rates might make people happy, there would be no reason for people to buy plat if everything was cheap and easy to get. Thats why earlier I said its all about STS economy, if they aren't making money, they can't continue.

[Noblesse]

I know why some of you in this thread don't make much gold. You spend too much time typing longwinded economy/history related threads. If you'd use that time and those few braincells by actually playing the game, you'd probably be rich by now :D

[Limsi]

I know why some of you in this thread don't make much gold. You spend too much time typing longwinded economy/history related threads. If you'd use that time and those few braincells by actually playing the game, you'd probably be rich by now :D

Yet there are those beings who despite posting short and nonsensical replies to a serious topic like this, remain poor.

[Uzii]

It is possible for everyone if you put in enough time and save your gold. Most players do not want to (or are not able to) put in the required time to save up enough gold for such items. But those who do are certainly deserving of having those items.

Doesnt sound like that when u was comparing to own a ferrari.

And guess what? There are plenty of nice items that most players can have. What you really are suggesting is that there should be no arcane or mythic items at all. Because if you make them more common then they will be no more rare than regular legendary pinks. So say what you mean. You don't think there should be any rare items. You think everyone should be able to have the same exact gear.

I dont realy recall sayin something like that in my post. I actualy sayed it shouldnt be easy. (comparing to owning a ferrari is bit exaggerated isnt it?)

Well there are plenty of MMOs that exist where this is the case. Just play PL if you want a good example. Everyone in PL complained because some items were too expensive, so now the drop rates of all the items were raised and now everyone can afford everything. So most of the elite players got bored and left, so the game is now pretty empty. But lots of noobs love it because they can play for a few weeks and have everything they want.

I never liked PL

Sorry, but some of us want a game that presents a challenge. A game where I can play multiple hours per day, and a year later I still don't have everything I want. Because once I have everything I want, then I get bored and move on to another game. If that happens in one month, then the game will be a failure. And trust me, most of the elite players feel the same way.

I dont have everything and game starts to be boring. Just my personal feeling i dont need aplay to everyone.



I just wanted u stop comparing game with a real life. And now i please u to stop twisting the words and saying something i never sayed.

On other note. The thing is without cheap gear from crates many ppl will end up with crappy epic items no very useful to their party. Some ppl can call them sucky players.

Items form crates is cheap bc ppl keep opening them so price drops (not speaking abt mythic and arcane). But items from elite maps are 1m+ in cs. So without crates many ppl couldnt afford at least some good gear.

[Noblesse]

Yet there are those beings who despite posting short and nonsensical replies to a serious topic like this, remain poor.

Aww, I'm sorry to hear you're poor.

[Rare]

I know why some of you in this thread don't make much gold. You spend too much time typing longwinded economy/history related threads. If you'd use that time and those few braincells by actually playing the game, you'd probably be rich by now :D

PLEASE!!! Teach us how you use your few braincells!!!

[CosmoxKramer]

Here are my thoughts. I'm a very casual player.


Buying gold with Platinum is too easy, Platinum to Gold ratio is too high
Gold earned to regular gameplay, vendoring, or questing is not on the same planet as merching or 'luck' (luck being elite grinding and chest opening)
Possibly, get rid of chests or make them drop caches of gold, pets,potions packs, or vanities. not items. Getting multiple items from a drop is also driving prices down.
Make Elites 30m-1hr and the bosses very tough, but guarantee a Legendary drop with a chance at mythic/arcane
Add all or more suffixes to each item drop so that there are varying qualities of each item. (Firesquid rod has 3 different suffixes and 2 different levels, but there are 10 possible suffix combinations just for INT being the main stat, 20 more if Dex/Str are the main stat). Varying qualities will have different price points and the good ones would still be as rare as just getting 1 of them now.
STOP putting Elite items in crates that are better than dungeons. I get really bored when i can just buy a gun for 5k and use that forever,etc.
with some above changes (increase gold drops, chest changes etc) raise prices on pots.
make all pet eggs more rare and take them out of Klaas's chests and put them into the world as drops somewhere. Making other items besides top tier elite and arcane items worth something. there are so few pets that drop that are worth anything between 5k gold and 500k that are drops.
they could easily raise gold drop, vendoring, and quest gold if they would make items be bound once equipped so that youcan't resell them. Then they could raise drop rates to make folks happy in runs...instead of upset with bad drops or unlucky chests


and sorry, but people who say Merching is a good way to make money, that isn't a way for general or casual players to make money. you need gold to start, practice to be good, and a lot of market knowledge in STS games. Other than that, there is gold buying or elite grinding and banging your head on the wall when you get crap because of crap luck time and time again.

I tried playing other games recently like the new on on iOS call Heroes of Destiny, but that was even a worse cash money sink than AL, luckily i found a review that pointed me to Fantasy Adventure. Costs and drops in game are well balanced. It's a lot easier to play a game that isn't aggrivating...

[CosmoxKramer]

An economy is not an easy fix. I don't think taking or adding gold will fix it. And while playing with the drop rates might make people happy, there would be no reason for people to buy plat if everything was cheap and easy to get. Thats why earlier I said its all about STS economy, if they aren't making money, they can't continue.

I'd rather pay $2 a month and have just vanities, pets, and elixirs be plat purchases, if that meant a more balanced economy and less frustration with gear drops etc.


On my previous point, they could easily raise gold drop, vendoring, and quest gold if they would make items be bound once equipped so that you can't resell them. Then they could raise drop rates to make folks happy in runs...instead of upset with bad drops or unlucky chests


And then they had to make the pinks and purples more rare because every purple was being rerolled to a pink.
the crafting system was a flawed system. having a bunch of other purchased or new drops to turn 1 item into another. They need something like destroying green, purple, pink items to get equal colored crafting materials to be used to craft 1 item. It may take 20 green, 10 purple, and 5 pink to make, 1 crafted pink. If they put a crafting system like this in, that would help keep the 'crappy' pink item prices up because people would be able to use them to craft something. The the best crafting recipes would need to drop just like an item or pet from a boss, so that not too many people could craft the same item.

[Energizeric]

and sorry, but people who say Merching is a good way to make money, that isn't a way for general or casual players to make money. you need gold to start, practice to be good, and a lot of market knowledge in STS games.

Actually, it's much simpler than that. I can play for 5 minutes and make 10k. If I posted a video of myself doing it, everyone would say "wow, why didn't I think of that?". LOL That's all I'm going to say for now. Can't give away all my secrets, but those who merch probably know exactly what I'm talking about.

[maillard]

Personally I prefer to farm chests then open them. Maybe in the long run you make less money, but the prices for elite pirate chests or even locked crates are worth it in my opinion. In most PUGs I have been in, the southern seas elite map can be finished on average between 6 to 10 minutes depending on the team. If you have 4 warriors it take take the full 10 minutes. But the investment in pots is worth it based on what you can get back compared to other maps. I don't know if its the best place but you can farm locked crates on non-elite Jarl with a luck elixor. And now maybe the best time because its possible prices could go up in the future once the free luck elixor from the Leprechoblin ends (and less crates are on the market). Anyways, this is a couple of things I like to do when I don't have much time and earn some quick gold. It still needs some luck but so does everything in the game. Anyways, I am not too concerned because I don't care if I have the very best stuff. Second or 3rd best or whatever is okay with me. No economy is going to be perfect that pleases everyone.

[Mysticaleagle]

Farming 3 hours straight to receive one single Elite Copper chest FTW.